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Jackal: The truth will out

Written By: - Date published: 8:39 pm, September 28th, 2014 - 114 comments
Categories: blogs, David Farrar, food - Tags: , , ,

Reposted from The Jackal

It’s unfortunate that those involved in the Dirty Politics scandal have taken National’s election win as some sort of vindication of their devious tactics. However, the business as usual approach people like Cameron Slater and David Farrar are taking, so soon after they’ve been exposed, is likely to blow up in their faces.

It might be a somewhat convincing meme that middle New Zealand simply doesn’t care about government corruption, but the truth has a way of getting through to even the most deluded individuals. Eventually, more and more people will start to become aware of the sinister side to John Key’s administration, and either through openly challenging or quietly working against it, progressive and positive change will occur.

However, nobody should be under any illusions that the repressive regime such propagandists represent will try to further undermine our civil liberties, especially for those who challenge the current dysfunctional system with reason and facts. This is especially the case for academics who understand the implications of not doing their work honestly.

Today, Scoop reported another story that shows Cameron Slater has learnt nothing:

Hate merchants at it again with smear tactics

“It’s disappointing to see the hate merchants at it again with yet another attempt to smear and silence a health professional who’s doing research they disagree with,” says Ian Powell, Executive Director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists (ASMS).

“Cameron Slater’s Whale Oil blog has repeatedly attacked the work being done by public health researchers, for example in the areas of nutrition and smoking, and now he’s having a go at Otago University nutrition expert Dr Lisa Te Morenga.

“Once again we see him using the word ‘trougher’ in a blog post in an offensive attempt to undermine the credibility of a health professional who is using her expertise to improve public health, and then on Twitter we see Carrick Graham and Jordan Williams also laying into Dr Te Morenga.

The sheer hypocrisy of these guys appears to know no bounds. If academics are “trougher’s” for being paid to undertake research, what does that make Cameron Slater & co for being paid to try and undermine it?

The problem here is that the right wing has an enormous credibility issue that they don’t look like ever resolving…mainly because they don’t want to even acknowledge the problem exists.

“These smear tactics were well documented in Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics book and the resulting political revelations in the lead-up to the general election, and they’re unacceptable. Critiquing the conclusions of research is a valid part of health debate and discussion but this is just nasty stuff on the part of Whale Oil and others. New Zealand’s health professionals should be able to to carry out research and other investigations without fear of intimidation.”

Mr Powell says this latest attack on a health professional follows the recent visit here by British anti-tax spin doctor Christopher Snowdon to talk about the evils of taxing sugary soft drinks.

“It’s all part of a relentless campaign to undermine and silence people who are working to address issues like obesity, diabetes and public health. Our view is that sunlight is the best disinfection for those tactics.”

I wonder what the right wing will do when people stop being afraid?

114 comments on “Jackal: The truth will out”

  1. ropata 1

    Just observe what is happening to democracy and human rights in the UK (scotland independence vote), USA (gitmo and NSA), and Australia (total mass surveillance, insane tory PM).

    The right will use its media influence and political power to spread fear / greed / distraction /astroturfing in ever increasing hysteria, and arrogate more power to the ruling elite.

    • Kat 1.1

      Media influence! The right own the media. Until the left has its own MSM influence to put its story across unadulterated then it will get worse. And if anybody is in doubt of that happening in little ol’ NZ, take a reality pill. Unfortunately having your own MSM takes money, lots of it.

      Has anyone here just for a moment considered the personal wealth of the PM and compared that to any singular person on the Labour benches? Then take the muscle of the collective wealth of the entire right and compare it to the meager wealth of the left.

      We on the left are not stupid and its time we fought back smarter. PR smarter. Its the only hope we got left.

      • Chooky 1.1.1

        +100 Kat

      • Gosman 1.1.2

        Set your own MSM up then. Noone is stopping you.

        • thatguynz

          You still banging that drum Gosman? It’s a weak response and you know it.

          • lurgee

            The left need to put forwards bright and interesting writers. What happened to them all? All the good writers used to be socialist. Now there are none at all.

            Did twenty years of neo-liberalism really corrode our sense of commonweal to such an extent?

            • Gosman

              Put forward to where exactly?

              • lurgee

                To newspapers. Unlike some here, I don’t buy into the idea that the media are innately inimical to the left. They just aren’t terribly interested in us just now because we’re not telling a good story.

                • Lloyd

                  The press used to be staffed by union members. Left-wing ideas got some discussion in the staff-room and would seep out around the right-wing owners opinions. In these days of anti-union, neo-liberal, contract based employment there is very little space in the staff-room for left-wing questioning of right-wing propaganda. This lack of left-wing criticism seeps out in the right-wing attitudes of New Zealand’s newspapers and broadcast media.

          • Gosman

            Why don’t you though? Find another Dotcom type sugar daddy to fund you and create the panacea to the left’s woes.

            Except you want it to be state funded I suspect. Which essentially means you want people like me to pay for you to promote your political ideology via the media.

            And you wonder why right wingers distrust state media.

            • framu

              well you must be outraged that tax $ were used by the state to attack its opponents then

              • Akldnut

                And you want people like me to pay for you to promote your political ideology via TVNZ, if you get your way why can’t we?

                The only reasons right wingers would distrust the media is because
                1. it would turn on you if we had a left wing Govt. or
                2. eventually you’ll do so much dirty shit they’ll turn on you.

            • Foreign waka

              Unfortunately, it was the introduction of the Californian Model into the Education system and with it the “recognize the word” reading model that has lead to 30% of students being functionally illiterate. Academics at our Universities do not hide this fact. It is very sad that such experiment has now left quite a few people to pick up the pieces after discovering that they cannot understand a simple manual. Being able to read is fundamental to stimulate curiosity and ideas. Alas…

            • lurgee

              Find another Dotcom type sugar daddy to fund you and create the panacea to the left’s woes.

              That’s not the stupidest idea you’ve ever had, actually.

              The guardian is run through a trust, and is not expected to make a profit. A shoestring leftwing news / comment service could be conceivable. There are plenty of leftwing commentators out there, it shouldn’t be that hard or expensive to string ’em in.

              If stuff is going to go behind a paywall, there’s an opportunity to seize control of free popular opinion in New Zealand!!!!

        • David H

          Gosman your rec..rec..rec..rec..rec.. bang! Scrrrriiitttcchhh your record is stuck.

      • David H 1.1.3

        @Kat Those on the left have to Work for their money. Not like Key who just made peoples lives a misery by screwing with the currency, and firing people.

      • Mike Bond 1.1.4

        Wealth come from hard work. Something that is lacking from the average left supporter. The Dirty Politics had a negative effect on the left and it’s smear campaigns. Have you guys not learnt anything yet?

        • One Anonymous Bloke


          Of course wealth comes from hard work, which is why all nurses and miners are rich, and people who work three jobs to stay ahead, they’re the wealthiest of all.

          The reality, that wealth is delivered by chance, whether luck in life or birth, is self-evident to all but the delusional. This Bond trash is more than delusional though, mindlessly parroting rote-learned smears like a good little Stalinist.

          We need better wingnuts.

        • Kelly-Ned

          And yet you notice that no law suits have been filed. Indicating that Hager is on the mark.
          And you think that is okay – all those things being true? Really?
          I doubt that Key and hard work in the sense that the average kiwi know it fit together in the same sentence.
          Glorified gambling would be closer to the mark.

        • Foreign waka

          You should know that the distribution of wealth is in the hands of the powerful and they are this way because they have all the wealth.
          Almost half of the world’s wealth is now owned by just one percent of the population.

          From the Forbes webpage:

          The wealth of the one percent richest people in the world amounts to $110 trillion. That’s 65 times the total wealth of the bottom half of the world’s population.
          The bottom half of the world’s population owns the same as the richest 85 people in the world.
          Seven out of ten people live in countries where economic inequality has increased in the last 30 years.

          Belief you me for many hard work is not the stumbling block.

    • Colonial Viper 1.2

      ropata: don’t forget Harper in Canada, who has just signed a trade agreement with Chinese resources corporates deliberately designed to undermine the rights of Canadian indigenous First Nations as well as the last remaining provincial controls over resource extraction.

      In other words – the FVEYs countries, once the white colonisers of foreign nations and darker skinned peoples, have started to turn their imperial might against their own lands and their own citizens.

      • ropata 1.2.1

        CV, follow the money. It’s the demise of the democratic nation-state, and the rise of a new trans-national ruling elite.

      • Pharmachick 1.2.2

        Colonial Viper,
        you’ve got a point. The Harper government is one of the most right wing I’ve seen in modern times. As a recent immigrant to Canada I’ve found it disconcerting. Our provincial government is also decimating schools and hospitals right now. Its kind of appalling. HOWEVER two things: 1) If you think National is anywhere near as right wing as Harper’s lot, you’re miles off. They’re literally chalk and cheese. and 2) Canadians sometimes make Kiwis look aggressive, they’re so polite and understated. But they’re fiercely patriotic (rightly so) and they care about each other, Harper will not get away with this for ever.

        • greywarbler

          @ Pharmachick 1 2 2
          Hi there in Canada. I used to think that Canada was a better class of Brit colonial adventure than most. Then I heard about your politicican Harper, and the murder in Le Pas (spelling?). And googled fat politician Canadian and got Toronto Mayor Rob Ford. Which doesn’t do anything for Canada’s fame and good standing.

          Which province are you in? Some more right wing than others. I wondered if the French influence on Montreal had brought some savoir faire there. What do you think?
          Is that an all right place that hits above the rest of Canada’s score?

          • ropata

            Same corporate bullshit in Canada as we have in NZ. John Key is just more devious behind his mild mannered persona.

          • Pharmachick


            Rob Ford is a fool. The good people of Toronto have had enough and you don’t really need to worry about that side-show anymore. I will say: Auckland’s mayoralty and council structure could do a lot better to follow a Canadian style of one of the major cities like Toronto, Ottawa or Vancouver.

            As to your question about french canadian vs. canadian … yes, in a way the Quebequois do better than the rest of Canada. Much like France, Quebec has adopted a firm “liberté, egalité, fraternité” stance. They look after their own, although they have the typical problems observed in very socialist countries/provinces (strikes – a la France; long waits for health care and long waiting lists – a la UK and France) etc.

            On the whole Canada is doing well. But all countries have issues.

            In my Province (BC) the provincial government is currently eviscerating education (K -12 as well as tertiary) and also Health Care. Its frightening. The premiere has some very hard line policies that, even though I can understand right-led policies, I just cannot see them working.

            • greywarbler

              @ Pharmachick
              Nice to get your input. Come again won’t you. Good to get some wider viewpoint than just down under.

              And the comment about socialist countries. What brought our neo lib style regime on was the excuse of an excess of stopworks from transport union that had a union policy, as one official said to me, of not knowing what ‘enough’ was. But strikes and waiting lists can mean that everyone is getting treated, and that everyone has a chance to get better income. What needs to happen is some self control on both sides.

              Our wages have been going up by an average of 2.5% wages while (measured) inflation is about that and house inflation is about 10%p.a. A gougers paradise here, and the unions hard put to prevent the American dream, large corporates providing workers with assistance to apply for food stamps!

              Let us know if your state governments come up with better ways of spreading the returns to the peeps will you!

      • Foreign waka 1.2.3

        Oil drilling in the National parks is the lure.

  2. ropata 2

    Here’s a very good article on effecting social change : http://creativetimereports.org/2013/04/01/change-the-culture-change-the-world/

    Abraham Lincoln famously said, “Public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it, nothing can succeed.” It is essential for us to think about these words in the context of the wave, because artists shift and frame public sentiment as they create the cultural ocean we live in every day. You may attend a rally or vote, but you also read books, listen to music, engage with visual art, turn on the radio and create your identity through culture. Artists are central, not peripheral, to social change. To have the movements that make the wave, you need cultural workers.

    The environmental and human rights activist Van Jones has made an excellent graph mapping the political ecosystem. On the left you have action, and on the right, ideas; elites are at the top, and the masses are below. There’s an inside game and an outside game. On the inside, there’s big money: elites are throwing millions of dollars into political lobbying. The inside game is the force that creates policy. On the outside, we apply tremendous pressure so that our elected officials pass laws that give us power.

    The alternative (and what I think is more likely to happen in NZ) is some kind of economic or political crisis, so that the failures of the Nats can no longer be ignored.

    • Colonial Viper 2.1

      Ropata – replied to your comment above, saying that Harper/Canada is just as complicit, and in fact in all the FVEYs countries the governments are turning against their own people.

      • ropata 2.1.1

        Oh well it was nice being middle class for a while. Apparently Middle NZ is happy to sell assets and destroy ecosystems, as long as we can keep the property bubble going. In another generation we will be tenants in this land, and ‘democracy’ will be doublespeak for ‘oligarchy’.

    • aerobubble 2.2

      Why left? Left behind? Left alone? Why right left divide? Leave best alone. What does the left mean?

      When people vote for the right, they want things best ‘left’ alone? The left however is interested in keeping those left out, left behind, those things we think best left alone are not.

      e.g. Maori prison numbers, child poverty.

      Labour have failed to address competently why we need a CGT, and why Key’s major theme, tax cuts gave 40% to the top 10%, shifting the burden of revenue gathering onto the lower and middle income earners. Key then run up debt on the lower and middle income earners, sold dividend producing assets, and degraded services.

      So that a person can’t get a government service, or it takes longer, exposing them to down side risks, all the time they are paying more in taxation relatively, that revenue is paying off interest on borrowing instead of services, propping up Solid energy and lost millions in dividends.

      Why cannot Labour sell this to voters, that Key trickle down during a kiwi recession, during a GFC, was absurd. Key increased the burden on lower to middle income earners at the pinch point of the GFC. How absolutely corrupt.

      And where were Labour?

  3. Dramaticus 3

    The problem is NZ is turning into a nation run by a bunch of cockheads who basicly need a reality check.
    They supply credibility to people like Slater by breaking the laws governing the elected parliamentarians, and lie to the nation and cannot be held to account by the voter, even if its true.
    Maybe NZers can’t believe that a German lives in this country with more credibility than its PM
    If someone came to this country like a terrorist maybe it would take that to shake the living shit out of the crap that we have had to put up with for the last 6 yrs
    Sadly it is the language that we call speaking Kiwi is really nothing of the sort, it is uneducated bullying dressed up to being colloquial as well as the educated variety which is designed to tell the conscience of the listener that it is not as bad as it is
    IE what the National Party speaks
    When the natural state of the country is completely rooted maybe the people with ”$ in their eyes ”will have them opened to the shit that they dont want to see that all this money is costing more than its worth

    • greywarbler 3.1

      @ Dramaticus
      There is no use in comforting yourself that ‘they’ will be sorry one day. One, by then we will have suffered big probably irreversible losses, (I have a card with two huia on it in front of me at present. They are extinct, the beautiful birds. Such a loss. NZs too oh well.)

      And secondly the entitled are never at fault. They cannot humble themselves enough to actually critique themselves objectively and accept their errors.

  4. Peter 4

    Clearly Mr Slater wants more Government spending to pay for the social cost of private profiteering be it via sugar, cigarettes or alcohol. More likely he actually does not care about the consequences either way, as long as someone writes him a cheque.

    • lurgee 4.1

      That implies Slater wrote the pieces in question. More likely they were penned for him and published on his blog under his name – a practice which instantly disqualifies him from the oft sullied title of ‘journalist.’

      It seems insane that he is still using the same method. But I believe psychopaths are often so convinced of their own cunning that they do that – assuming everyone else will simply continue to fall for their ruse because it has worked before.

      • David H 4.1.1

        You are right Slater could not write that he’s just too thick. Carrick Graham perhaps?

        • lurgee

          Hager identified Kathrine Rich as one of his employers, in her role with the NZ Food and Grocery Council. I suspect they have an interest in trashing nutritionists. ‘Trougher’ seems to be one of Graham’s pet terms, though, so it is probably him writing on the NZ Food and Grocery Council’s behalf.

          (Consult pages 83-4 of DP)

  5. Bill 5

    Six months ago, Stuff would not have been carrying a story of an academic hitting back at Slater smears while being backed by their professional body.

    On the political side (ie, parliament) the dirty politics network will continue as before and be more or less effective insofar as major papers and TV will pick up on their stories and run with them (easy copy).

    So, the industry side of their shite is collapsing. Maybe that will eventually impact on their operations around parliamentary politics.

    And unlike the potential in the US, with its bigger and more anonymous population, I don’t they’ll be able to replicate their nonsense using different front people or ‘jiggling’ their network.

    I for one am quite heartened by the fact they feel vindicated and immune. That attitude is their weakness and will see them utterly destroyed. Had they laid low for a while….yeah, possibly a different outcome in that scenario.

  6. boldsirbrian 6

    I’ve had a quick look at Slater’s blog. It appears that he has effectively been neutered. It’s largely full of copies of viral videos to try and attract readership, and quotations from MSM political news stories. (of course with his own nasty interpretations…. but who cares?)

    Slater’s site statistics were always falsely inflated. My guess is that the number of people reading his blog are dropping extremely quickly now. His power, based on inside knowledge is gone. Especially with Collins gone, and even Key and Tolley will have the sense not to use him until they think the heat is off.

    So without the possibility of inside knowledge gossip, why would anyone still regularly go to Whaleoil? There are many more political blogs on the left and right which provide much better thoughtful and wide ranging analysis. His blog is the internet version of the Truth newspaper. Fail.

    My guess is that Whaleoil blog will keep going, more as a futile face saving measure by Slater. It will continue to have significance only in relation to Dirty politics Inquiries already initiated, and probable future inquiries that are likely to involve Prime Minister Key, and Minister Tolley.

    • Peter Matthews 6.1

      His site’s shown videos the whole time I’ve been looking at it (about 8 months), usually during the evening to end the day. Nothing new here.

      • Pascals bookie 6.1.1

        lol. 8 months you say. Case closed then huh

        • Peter Matthews

          The length of time I’ve been aware of his site is irrelevant. And I’m not defending the guy, just pointing out that the videos aren’t a sign of neutering as they were part of his blog well before recent events (dirty politics, etc.)

          [lprent: have you read the book? A good chunk of it is about 2009. Cameron Slater came to my attention because the pervert pasted a kids head on a gay porn image. ]

          • Peter Matthews

            No I haven’t read it, to be honest I’ve never even seen a copy of it the shops in my part of NZ (I don’t do eBooks). However, I’m not one of his fanboys and nothing about him in the book would surprise me. I visit his site (and this one + others) purely to read opinions from both the left and right to help me work thru my own thoughts on things

    • Melanie Scott 6.2

      Please don’t insult Truth magazine. Many years ago, they had one of the best headline banners (those title sheets usually seen outside dairies). There was a hoo haa going on about a sex shop in Hamilton situated near a Sunday school, or some such. Members of the congregation where demonstrating through the ‘power of prayer’ outside said establishment. The banner read “Hymn singing sends brothel bonkers.”

  7. Chooky 7

    Great Post…and these attacks on highly qualified researchers is a warning sign of the attempt to break down civil society!

    Intellectuals, researchers, thinkers , dissenters have been denigrated in some pretty horrible totalitarian regimes

    eg Pol Pot’s Cambodia, Mao’s Chinese Cultural Revolution…the Shah’s regime in Iran..Stalin’s gulags ….Hitler’s concentration camps…

    …it is the sign of Fascism

    • Gosman 7.1

      And we have a Godwin….

      Do you not think this attitude might have contributed somewhat to people being turned off by left wing politics at the last election?

      • Hanswurst 7.1.1

        No, because no left-wing public figure displayed any such attitude.

        • Gosman

          The left as a whole has this attitude in spades especially amongst many activists.

          • Pascals bookie

            Nothing like that on the right nope uhuh sorry what’s that you say can’t hear you devilbeast’s are screaming about far left stalinist munich rally jackboots or something.

            • Gosman

              Except you have John Key providing what people perceive as a moderating voice. When David Cunliffe panders to the left with comments like ‘I’m sorry for being a man’ (even though he probably doesn’t mean it as many people took it) then people think Labour will pander to this extreme attitude. This might be completely wrong but it is the preception. You can either find a strong leader who will moderate such views or attempt to calm such views down at grass roots level.

              • Pascals bookie

                Devilbeast, stalinist and far left etc, are Key’s lines Gos, so you’ll have to try harder.

          • Chooky

            @ Gosman diddums…truth hurts

      • lurgee 7.1.2

        I don’t think many people turn to Chooky for guidance.

        Otherwise they’d develop cricks in their necks from always looking up to see what post he/she agrees with +100.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.3

        And as I keep pointing out to you – pointing out a comparison to fascism doesn’t make the comparison go away. In this case, it is entirely valid.

        As that is the case I must assume that you’re trying to distract from that comparison as, just like the fascistic and totalitarian regimes mentioned, you just don’t want the truth to be known.

    • Richard 7.2

      If he goes another will form, it’s a bit like terrorists you cut one head off another one forms elsewhere.

      plus I never figured out why they needed him unless the obvious, they need a way to leak info to their REAL attack media the Herald. You see with Whaleoils hotline to Armstrong and O’Sullivan national CAN work miracles.

      I look forward to the day someone takes either of them so called political opinion shit stirrers to a court. Hopefully the outcome will be a little Jail to bring them crashing back down to reality.

    • Foreign waka 7.3


  8. MrV 8

    I want to know when the authorities will be investigating this:


    Normally outspoken Odgers has gone very quiet. Yet where is the investigative journalism on the matter?
    Cameron Slater deleted all posts related to Odgers. This is where the wedge should be inserted and the investigation started.

  9. Theus 9


    There is no link to the article on stuff. Just a notice on Scoop under “Press release”. Gilding.

    The boffins trying to defend themselves, fair enough. Doesn’t mean WO is wrong is his criticisms of them though.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1

      His criticisms of them say what about their research findings?

      Not so much wrong as malicious, motivated by hate and money, and utterly unqualified to make any substantive statement on anything related to science or facts.

      • David H 9.2.1

        Someone else paid him to put this up under his name. you know he didn’t write it, It uses too many big words.

  10. Richard 10

    National were given a big stick by the voting public, well done, the likes of Slater got an endorsement, they think they public couldn’t give a shit, it appears they’re right.

    Sad isn’t it. As I definitely didn’t vote for the right in any way shape or form I’m happy to stand back now for the next three years saying, serves you right, you reap what you vote, and such like insults.

    This Slater fellow is going to carry on for as long a he’s allowed to get away with it. Or until someone scares him enough he stops, judging by the increases in crime, shovelled under the carpet by the way, Slater will be happy with 6 locks on the door as NZ degenerates into a police state.

  11. Nutritionists, especially the Uni of Otago ones, are peddlers of dogma – they’re the arse end of the social sciences. As someone who gets to endure their irrational ‘healthy food’ sermons on a regular basis, I can’t sympathise with them over this.

    • As is the case in most of these things, they exaggerate. Yes, smoking is “bad” for you, but if you smoke you are still more likely to die from a non-smoking related cause. However, “Smoking may kill you” is not a particularly inspiring slogan. The healthy food thing is the same – yes, it’s probably not good for you, but there are other factors in play.

      But what it’s really about is finding puritans someone to scold. Their past targets of homosexuals and promiscuous single mothers are now taboo, so the pleasure police have to have a go at smokers and fat people, and now that alcohol is back on the bad list, they look rather like the old temperance movement.

      What’s funny is that the same people who scold you for eating cream cakes off a plate would get very uppity if people criticised you for doing the same thing off a naked person as part of a sex kink, whereas 50 years ago the opposite would have been true.

      • Wendigo Jane 11.1.1

        Not a straw man argument but a big fat straw man argument, a straw Cameron Slater. I have never heard anyone express concern about “cream cakes”, but have heard concern about “junk food” in particular takeaways. Cheap, convenient, addictive, but hardly “pleasure”…

  12. ropata 12

    It’s porcinely obvious why the corpulent Slater has a grudge against healthy food advocates. Don’t get in between a man and his KFC! 😉

    • Chooky 12.1

      +100 ropata….”porcinely” is a good description…in fact he has always reminded me of Gollum in the Lord of the Rings …a very FAT piggy Gollum as in the original book….sliding and greasing around …he is after the gold …he is working for the interests of the multi-national fast food and drinks companies

    • greywarbler 12.2

      Or a man and his KDC. I grieve that we didn’t get Kim into the political sphere. He has the advanced sense of wheeling and dealing that we bunnies need. But are too dumb to perceive. Turn off those headlights….oooh crunch.

    • Wendigo Jane 12.3

      Yup. But he hasn’t died from an obesity related illness yet – not even once – therefore, it’s never gonna happen!!

  13. It might be a somewhat convincing meme that middle New Zealand simply doesn’t care about government corruption, but the truth has a way of getting through to even the most deluded individuals.

    This is deeply wrong. The left’s modus operandi is to expose facts and vainly hope that individuals noticing them will spontaneously cohere to punish those who have done wrong. It should be apparent by now that this doesn’t work except in the most extreme cases. Woodward and Bernstein were able to bring down Nixon, not because they convinced the public that they were right, but because they convinced organised groups in power that they were right, and they lived in a time when those organised groups depended more on the integrity of the political system than they do now.

    The effect of lots of people being convinced of National’s dastardly deeds is about the same as the effect of those people clicking a “don’t like” or “thumbs down” button on the internet, which is precisely nothing. Organisation trumps individuals and the left has no effective organisation compared to the right, which has most of the media either on its side or effectively neutered. The National Party has shown that audacity in the face of accusations works when you have power over institutions. Political individualism is not an effective means of resistance.

  14. Rolf 14

    We are not getting rid of ”dirty politics”. John Key brought it in from the US and it will stay and get worse. The real problem is that the media is ignoring it, so it can prosper as a political method, and the public is ignoring it and swallowing it without scrutiny, and most “dirties” are getting away with it, and are protected by for instance defamation laws. In a real democracy “dirty politics” would have been uncovered, Key would have been out permanently, maybe in jail, and near enough, there would have been “blood on the streets”. In retarded navel gazing New Zealand he was reelected and the corruption grows by the hour. The direction echoes most of the historical disasters in dictatorship. Democracy has been turned off.

    • framu 14.1

      ” The real problem is that the media is ignoring it”

      oh they arent ignoring it – why ignore an easy headline?

      the MSM are part of it – either via deadline/cost pressures or outright collusion

      • Foreign waka 14.1.1

        They will discover that there is a lot of fancy footwork involved if they want to be in a job. How long will that last?

  15. Young and Dumb 15

    Just to put their conflict with Dr Te Morenga in context, she was the first to fling dirt via twitter at Jordan Williams and she was incredibly nasty whilst doing so.

    By all means they go a bit far and all but she should know better than to get into a petty fight with Whaleoil and his mates. They’re better at it, end of.

    Dr Morenga isn’t exactly stupid and she should’ve known what was going to happen. If you don’t want to get dirty you just have to ignore things like that. Even if Dr Morenga was able to deliver a response that silenced Slater, Williams or Carrick she would still have not been any better off.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      They go a bit far ‘n’ all. Yeah, they do, don’t they. Everything in Dirty Politics is true.

      Loathsome trash leaves a stain. I’m curious, what exactly did Jordan Williams do to deserve anyone’s respect? Getting all whiny after being exposed doesn’t count. Has he agreed to stop, and compensate any of the people he’s attacked?

      Didn’t think so.

      • Young and Dumb 15.1.1

        You’re right, I have no doubt that Dirty Politics was entirely true or at the least a fairly factual detailed account of the dealings of Cameron Slater and co. In saying that I was under no illusion prior to the release of Dirty Politics about how dirty it can get. My only issue with the book is that it only details what has happened with those individuals and makes no effort to state that these type of back room deeds happen on both sides of the political spectrum.

        Jordan Williams hasn’t done anything specific to deserve respect, I never said he should be respected.

        Don’t put words in my mouth.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Why not, it’s already full of shit.

          I see you are running the stupid line that everyone does it. You are a liar, smearing people is your intention, and in doing so you demonstrate you belong in the sewer with Slater and Williams.

          Put up or shut up.

          • Young and Dumb

            Haha I find it funny that your not able to even have a civilised conversation when people don’t wholeheartedly believe in what you say.

            I am no liar, if you could get any of the top left wing politicians to swear they have never engaged in that type of dirty behaviour I’d admit I was wrong, but I’m not. Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to call everyone stupid because they are aware that the people you support are just as bad as the people you hate.

            Your just a sore loser and your frustrated at your own incompetencies in spreading lies about National or dirt on Slater and Williams. At least when they spread their filth they get the job done, alas a resounding victory, not like you lackeys relying on a self serving German to smear one of the most popular prime ministers we’ve ever had.

            Get Better.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              As I thought: your opinion is based on hate and bile and nothing substantive whatsoever. You don’t like being called on your lies and now you’re lashing out.

              If you think lying in support of your #team is civilised, you’re a cretin as well as a hypocrite and a liar. I tailored my civility to suit.

              Sincerely, choke on it.

            • Murray Olsen

              ” if you could get any of the top left wing politicians to swear they have never engaged in that type of dirty behaviour I’d admit I was wrong”

              A clear admission that you have no evidence and are just making shit up. You’re really not very good at this.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                …and his friend won’t know how to do the Heimlich Maneuver because his friend will be a big redneck asshole.


    • mpledger 15.2

      I think Dr Te Morenga was actually very restrained in her comments given the bigger context

      • She may have been, that still doesn’t change the fact getting into a dirt flinging contest with the best is not going to turn out well for her.

        It’s as simple as not picking a fight with high school kids when your in primary school.

        • Wendigo Jane

          No. It’s as simple as standing up to bullies, no matter the consequences. It’s called having a backbone, having ethics, having a conscience.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            When a bully steps forward, step forward first. When they hit you, hit them first.

  16. Crunchtime 16


    I suggest this is a good place to start

  17. Scott1 17

    it was funny hearing people ask Whale oil on the radio about what was happening in the labour party. Do they seriously think

    A) he understands how the left thinks
    B) even if he did, he would do anything but lie in order to make it look as bad as possible?

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