Mum and Dad Investor?

Written By: - Date published: 9:39 am, July 27th, 2014 - 124 comments
Categories: capitalism, class war, national, Privatisation - Tags:

Today’s Sunday Star Times has an article on a “mum and dad investor” who somehow managed to purchase $1.6 million worth of shares in Genesis Energy when it was floated at the same time as ordinary mum and dad investors had their shareholding purchases capped at $5,000.  The anomaly has occurred because they purchased through a share broker.  Share brokers had no restriction on how they allocated their shares whereas ordinary kiwi mums and dads who applied publicly had their applications scaled down.

The purchasers, Christopher and Leegena Weinberg, apparently made their money through selling dog meat.  They are described in the SST article as having last year renounced their American Citizenship, presumably so that they are not caught by the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.  This law has the abbreviation of FATCA.  I think they missed a letter off and it should be called the FATCAT law.  It will require American Citizens to file tax returns report certain assets to the IRS even if they live overseas.  Through laws passed recently New Zealand financial institutions are obliged to provide some information to the US authorities on locally based American citizens.

This episode further shows the stupidity of the decision to privatise.  The Weinberg shares have gone up in value by $300,000 and they can expect a dividend payment in the first year of something in the vicinity of $250,000.  This is capital appreciation and dividend income that would otherwise belong to the Crown.

The incident underlines the falsehood offered as justification for the share float.  We have not created a new class of shareowning ordinary New Zealanders.  We have made already rich people even richer.

As for the other primary reason given for the privatization, the unlocking of hidden value through improved governance, the fallacy is that  essentially the same group of professional directors that sat on the Meridian board pre float are still there.  The staff have not changed significantly.  The business is despite its scale a fairly straight forward one.  While it could be argued that National’s hands off oversight of the company means that the new partial owners will do a better job, this is an indictment of the lack of oversight that English and co provide, not a vote of confidence in the market.

This is just another example why this Government should be removed from office as soon as possible.  If we do not achieve this not occur they will wreck the country.

124 comments on “Mum and Dad Investor? ”

  1. ghostwhowalksnz 1

    Just as interesting was the rest of the fat cats on the register

    “joined on the register by a who’s who of wealthy investors, including interests associated with
    Sir Eion Edgar, Lyn Erceg, Peter Masfen, Rod Duke, Stefan Lepionka and Peter Francis, whose stakes were all at least 250,000 shares.

    Rod Duke ?. He cant make any money running Xero as it has only reported losses but wants to get rich with a power generator

    • tc 1.1

      Rod duke owns briscoes group.

      Genesis was given away, simple as that. With a shonkey float structure so the nats backers could gazzump local non institutional buyers.

      Aside from the economic lunacy the whole process showed how pissweak the NZX is, a cosy old boy network doing as asked by the biggest boys club….the national party.

      You want a strong NZX, pull it down and start again. Mark weldon did a nice job for his mates, took the money and ran.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1

        You want a strong NZX, pull it down and start again.

        Just can it – the whole place is as obviously corrupt as the idea of shareholding.

    • Bearded Git 1.2

      While I was dead against the sale, when it went ahead I applied for $31000 of shares and got $4500, about one seventh. I was completely gobsmacked.

      In light of the SST article I think possibly something illegal has gone on here and an enquiry is needed.

      • David H 1.2.1

        I hate to say this but it may take the ‘little’ investor who has been rorted to make the complaints needed to start yet another inquiry into the shoddy practices of TricKey and co. Because no-one from the ‘rich’ part of town is going to moan when they got all, and probably more, than they asked for.

  2. Gooch 2

    Rod Drury runs xero, different bloke.

  3. aj 3

    Duke is Briscoes/Rebel sports?

  4. Clemgeopin 4

    As we all know, there was a very wide opposition to these asset sales and in the referendum held last year, of more than 1.3m valid votes cast, 67.3 per cent, i.e, two thirds, voted against, while only 32.4 per cent were in favour of asset sales.

    Of course, this stupid and crooked government didn’t care a damn about what the people were saying about their short sighted asset sales agenda.

    The question is will those scorned 67.2 % of the public teach this pro wealthy capitalist National Hash-Key government a lesson by kicking them out at this election?

    • Tracey 4.1

      Blame the people who voted for national to sell assests but didnt want assets sold. No wonder the govt laughs behind our backs some of its followers are so stupid.

  5. karol 5

    English still claims the majority of the shares were bought by ordinary Kiwis.

    2 things:

    How much longer will many of them hold onto those shares before they are off-loaded to the already wealthy.

    It’s still a major problem if 10-20% of the shares went to the already wealthy overseas investors.

    • fender 5.1

      “How much longer will many of them hold onto those shares…..”

      Possibly not much longer after the bonus shares arrive on a silver platter…

    • john 5.2

      Without overseas investment, New Zealand would have 25% fewer jobs.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1

        Easy to say, impossible to prove, utterly irrelevant to the question of Double Dipton’s dishonesty.

        • john 5.2.1.1

          Even your beloved Green Party has stated in their policy that 25% of NZ jobs rely on foreign investment.

          In your world, trying to score a little political brownie point is far more important than 25% of NZ’s jobs.

          Which is exactly the reason Labour finds itself in the current quagmire.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1.1.1

            Earth calling John, 2007 saw the lowest unemployment rate in New Zealand history. There are far more unemployed under Dear Leader, what were you saying about jobs again?

            In your stupid haste to misrepresent my opinions, you forgot to check if your own match reality.

            Own goal, fool.

  6. Skinny 6

    Oh yes promote via the heart strings of potential Kiwi mum & dad investors.

    Then limit the GE shares to a token level and open it up to Key’s Jewish-American cousins who swoop in for a 300k killing.

    National ‘working for their rich mates.’

    • McFlock 6.1

      Why bring religion or culture into it?
      Cheapens the complaint, imo.

      • Skinny 6.1.1

        Yeah I know, however the Kiwi taxpayer has taken quite a mauling from the antics of the former money trading shyster in charge of the purse strings. Gifting our assets to the Cyborgs, large taxpayer handouts to the Warner/Zanuck brothers and let’s not go into American backed happenings to the Arabs in Gaza. Is there a common link? You bet ya!

        • McFlock 6.1.1.1

          yeah, nah.

          Especially given the similarly close links with some Chinese enterprises, I’d say the only common factor in this government’s corruption is cash.

  7. Draco T Bastard 7

    The incident underlines the falsehood offered as justification for the share float. We have not created a new class of shareowning ordinary New Zealanders. We have made already rich people even richer.

    While making the rest of NZ poorer because of it but, then, that was always the reason for privatisation in the first place. We were just told that it would be more efficient but we weren’t told that that efficiency would be in taking our wealth from us and giving it to the rich.

    This is just another example why this Government should be removed from office as soon as possible. If we do not achieve this not occur they will wreck the country.

    But their rich mates will be richer and that’s all that matters to them.

    • dave 7.1

      people must vote its as simple as that and ignore the crap coming form the talking heads of the corporate media and vote

  8. Wayne 8

    Hey, stop whinging. Go out with your family friends and campaign to defeat the Nats if you feel that strongly about it.

    • fender 8.1

      Oh really?? Still giving orders despite retiring from this corrupt gang??

      • Tracey 8.1.1

        Retired???? You dont retire from this gang just have a different organisation sign yoyr pay cheques

    • Weepus beard 8.2

      This is part of the campaign, Wayne. Swing and undecided voters need to be made aware of this sort thing – it illustrates National’s laissez faire method of governance and it’s attitude to equality and fairness.

    • felix 8.3

      Hear that everyone? National’s Dr Wayne Mapp wishes that we stop discussing this issue.

      Ok?

      So everyone just shut up about it.

      • Tom Jackson 8.3.1

        This plonker is Wayne Mapp?

        Jesus H Christ, they’ll give a doctorate to any tory jackass with the right connections these days.

        • felix 8.3.1.1

          Yep. (Well, yep it’s Mapp. I have no comment to make on the criteria for doctorates.)

          Go back and look at the absolute drivel he has written here, and in particular note his inability to either follow or utilize even the simplest logical sequences.

          And then recall what this govt of dipshits had him in charge of.

          Utterly terrifying.

    • vto 8.4

      Don’t be a dick Wayne – this clearly shows again that John Key and his disciples cannot be trusted and that they have conned the New Zealand public.

      The line by mickysavage that this was an oversight is naïve. This loophole was seen with 20-20 vision by all brokers and hence Key.

      It is entirely legitimate to raise concerns about the dishonesty of our Prime Minister and his government. That you call such ‘whinging’ reflects only on you and your priorities.

      That you consider it somehow fair game and that “winning” is all that matters reveals yet again the low human attributes people like you have. Winning is all that matters to you and your kind and that you have to be dishonest and lie to achieve it doesn’t matter at all. You poor poor souls – how barren.

      This attribute of your kind Wayne was discussed at length in and around here the other day – check it out http://thestandard.org.nz/key-denigrates-all-black-jersey/#comment-855004

      • Anne 8.4.1

        It is entirely legitimate to raise concerns about the dishonesty of our Prime Minister and his government.

        And just to emphasise the point here is a comment I made on another thread:

        Corruption – a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.

        synonyms of corrupt: dishonest, unscrupulous, unprincipled, amoral, untrustworthy, underhand, deceitful, double-dealing:

        John Key is dishonest. He is a pathological liar as evidenced in Blips list..
        John Key is unscrupulous. He destroys people who get in his way or are of no use to him. eg. the poor.
        John Key is unprincipled. He changed the law to suit another country other than the country he leads.
        John Key is amoral. He has no moral compass.
        John Key is untrustworthy. He cannot be trusted to act with transparency.
        John Key is underhand. He uses the security agencies – and others – for political and personal gain.
        John Key is deceitful. He hides behind a facade of false premises designed to fool the voters.
        John Key is a double-dealer as evidenced by his wheeler/dealer background.

        In short: John Key is corrupt..

        So suck on it Wayne because its the truth and we’ll continue to say it for as long as John Key and his government is in power.

    • Ergo Robertina 8.5

      Wayne your comment tacitly acknowledges the Nats’ malfeasance in allowing large chunks of our strategic assets to fall to unsavoury foreign interests like these dodgy former pet food barons.
      Your comment says if you don’t like it, get an electoral mandate to change it.
      But the right is insulated electorally from anyone reversing harmful foreign investment of this kind with cries of capital flight if nationalisation of essential assets is suggested as a remedy.
      It’s tragic that a party that once had New Zealanders’ interests at heart is now happy to carve up our infrastructure for just about anyone who wants to buy it, and to hell with the economic and social cost.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.5.1

        But the right is insulated electorally from anyone reversing harmful foreign investment of this kind with cries of capital flight if nationalisation of essential assets is suggested as a remedy.

        The only thing that the government should be doing to capitalists that threaten capital flight is laughing in their faces. We don’t need, and have never needed, their money. The government is quite capable of creating the money needed to do everything that we wish to do.

    • fender 8.6

      OK Wayne, contrary to my initial reaction that you were wanting to be included in the “arrogant National” post, I’m now reading your comment as encouragement to the opposition because you are angry too but can’t be seen to criticise your former colleagues.

    • Liberal Realist 8.7

      Is that the best you can do Wayne? Is objecting to corrupt and deceitful acts by the current government just whinging?

      I suspect that had these crimes been committed by Labour ministers you would be howling from the roof tops, certainly not telling right wing bloggers they were just whinging.

      • Wayne 8.7.1

        Crimes, what crimes?

        The point of my brief post was that parties don’t win elections by navel gazing, they have to go out and do the work.

        And incidentally $1.6 million is about a third of the value of a typical farm. Yes, New Zealand has some rich people, and by definition they own things, including shares.

        If the Left look like they are against all wealth (though those in Labour can hardly be so with a proposed top tax rate of 36%), they just look like they are riven by envy.

        Which is not likely to appeal to a lot of New Zealanders. While New Zealanders expect their govt to deal with real poverty, they do not expect their govt to be “levelers”.

        Ironically the last govt like that was Muldoon’s, when he introduced a 10% tax surcharge on the top tax rate, which was already 60%. But that was 33 years ago. And it lead to the formation of Bob Jones New Zealand Party which as I recall got 12% of the vote in 1984 and ushered in the Lange/Douglas govt.

        • Tracey 8.7.1.1

          Some unanswered questions for you here Wayne

          http://thestandard.org.nz/implausible-denial/#comment-855644

        • Tracey 8.7.1.2

          Incidentally kiwis were capped at 5k, that was the point.

        • framu 8.7.1.3

          why has wayne turned into gosman?

          your being a pathetic little apologist wayne – you know damn well that most NZers dont like asset sales – yet youll sit there and play semantics to support them

          parasite

        • Puddleglum 8.7.1.4

          they just look like they are riven by envy.

          This is one thing that really irritates me. It’s a psychological explanation for a policy position.

          It attempts to psychopathologise a perfectly legitimate viewpoint about how best to structure a society (e.g., through highly progressive tax rates).

          What evidence do you or anyone else have that the framers of policies that target the wealth of the wealthy in order to create a more sustainable society (sustainable in a social as well as environmental sense, BTW) are motivated by ‘envy’.

          Isn’t it fairer to say that the opponents of the left will try to characterise left wingers as being envious and that, if successful, that characterisation will cause the left to ‘look’ to people as if they are envious?

          It is not a natural or logical consequence of proposing policies to prevent wealth accumulation in relatively few hands that it will inevitably ‘look’ like envy. That only happens if those interested in characterising it in that way succeed with their rhetorical play.

          Isn’t that the more accurate account?

    • Clemgeopin 8.8

      Wayne, why don’t you come out with the truth? Examining with your conscience, holding your head high, showing some guts and integrity, come out openly and tell the truth to the public and the media as to how dangerous, harmful and evil National, Key and his government have been for our nation, its ways and its future? Come on, do it! You will go down in NZ history as a worthy individual and a great patriot. Chose your date carefully for maximum impact. I suggest Sept 10.

  9. Foreign waka 9

    As assets are being sold against public will there should be a certain amount allocated to each taxpayer as it was them who paid for it in the first place and hence they are the rightful owners. Of cause more could be bought but a standard allocation would have been the honest way. Ooops, honest… here it is again, this nasty word spoiling everything.

  10. Colonial Viper 10

    A very entrepreneurial asset grab by the right wing elite 0.1%. Those same shareholdings can be made worthless pretty quickly though.

    • Shrubbery 10.1

      Agreed. There are any number of legal avenues for a left wing government to fuck over the people who effectively stole the assets from the New Zealand public. Hopefully, some of those happen. Why Fay and Richwhite aren’t still in prison, for instance, is beyond me.

      • Chooky 10.1.1

        Fay and Richwhite have not come back to New Zealand ….New Zealanders have long memories

        • Anne 10.1.1.1

          Fay, Richwhite and co. were tipped off the police were investigating them, so they skipped the country and went to Geneva to live. The police never bothered to go after them. I wonder why?

          It was in the 90s under the Bolger/Shipley regimes.

          • RedBaronCV 10.1.1.1.1

            No extradition treaty I believe is why the police did not follow

          • Tracey 10.1.1.1.2

            Thats different, they are neither german, nor over weight. Running away to avoid responsibility but I bet they vote for ACT every three years

            • Anne 10.1.1.1.2.1

              Oh yes Tracey. They were on ACT’s membership list in the 1990s. Not the open version but a secret list for the high flyers who wanted to remain anonymous even from ordinary ACT members. What I can tell you is that Micheal Fay rented out a whole floor of the Finance Plaza in Auckland to ACT in the mid 1990s (he’s since sold the building) for $1 per week.

              That was the period when the rich listers were setting up a coalition partner for National at the start of the MMP system of government. It worked in 1996 but they ran out of luck in 1999.

    • Chooky 10.2

      CV …hope so

  11. RedBaronCV 11

    Do they or the sharebrojers appear on national party donation lists. And why wasn’t the public pool expanded to the size of the applications taken in or the book building done through the public pool with the brokers only getting any left overs.

  12. Dialey 12

    If the Key Party gets another term, say goodbye to Kiwibank and the anti-nuclear policy

    • infused 12.1

      Kiwibank is a dog. The nuclear policy would never go.

      • Foreign Waka 12.1.1

        Interesting, since a lot of Kiwi saver money has bought into Kiwi bank. Hmmmm…..

      • felix 12.1.2

        Remember John Key in 2003, screeching with rage that the Labour govt weren’t sacrificing kiwi lives for the illegal U.S. invasion of Iraq?

        If you think his views on our independent foreign policy have altered at all, I invite you to watch his recent contribution to parliament on the situation in Gaza. It may as well have been written in Washington DC.

        All the evidence points to Key’s government moving NZ away from independence. The statements on the extra-judicial killing of NZ citizens abroad, the insistence on signing away the sovereignty of parliament in favour of the rights of global corporations, the eagerness to allow foreign powers to conduct armed police/military attacks on NZ soil. None of this is the behaviour of a govt that places any value on independence.

        If you played word association with Key, what do you think the word “independence” would return? My money is on “day” or “declaration” or “4th of July”.

        Don Brash as National leader said the nuke-free policy would be gone by lunchtime. Silly boy for saying it out loud, he had to go. Key and co are smarter, they know kiwis are overwhelmingly in favour of the ban but that just means they know they have to tread carefully on it. Sheesh, they knew kiwis were overwhelmingly in favour of keeping our energy infrastructure and smacking our kids too.

        When they sense that they can get away with it, the ban will be gone.

        I would say “by afternoon tea”, but as I’m sure you know the legislation to get rid of smoko breaks has already been written.

        • Liberal Realist 12.1.2.1

          “I would say “by afternoon tea”, but as I’m sure you know the legislation to get rid of smoko breaks has already been written by the US State Department in Washington DC.”

          FIFY

        • Clemgeopin 12.1.2.2

          +100

          You have made such good and true points. Oh, why oh why, can’t 52% of the people see through the spin and trickery of Key and his so called ‘government’?
          Are people so very gullible, so very trusting and so easily fooled?
          What about his caucus? Don’t they have any independent thought? Don’t they have any integrity? Are they that selfish? Are they scared?

        • Tracey 12.1.2.3

          Clever felix. Contrast the speed with which Key told Putin to man up and show leadership with how long to use alot of words to say nothing about israels invasion of the prison camp known as Gaza.

    • Clemgeopin 12.2

      I agree!
      As I wrote earlier, I am guessing that if National wins a third term, they will unleash very drastic pro capitalist, pro wealthy and pro-corporate polices as it will be their last golden opportunity to fulfill their ideology and agenda with no holds barred, which they were a little careful with so far due to political expediency and to prevent huge public backlash. But if they are re elected, you haven’t seen anything yet!

      If they do get a third time, I suspect they will move to…

      [1] Privatise the Kiwi bank.
      [2] Stop or alter the Kiwi saver top up, the start up $1,000 and the saving rates.
      ]3] Revamp the WFF payments making life harder for the low income families.
      [4] Introduce interest on student loans.
      [5] Hike up tertiary fees affecting students from poorer families.
      [6] Open more and more privately run charter schools, private health and privatised ACC care with generous public funds.
      [7] Open vast amounts of land and sea for mineral and oil exploitation without sufficient safeguards.
      [8] Sign the TPP in a hurry without due care, even if it harms us in the long run.
      [9] Undermine the unions further and dilute worker’s rights even more.
      [10] Make life more profitable for the wealthy but less so for what Key once referred to as the ‘under class’.

      That is my guess from what I have seen slowly happen in the last two terms of this one seat majority (Banks or Dunne) coalition government. I am hoping and think that the majority of people will at last see through this evil discredited crony capitalist supporting pro wealthy regressive government and vote them out on Sept 20 and help usher in a fairer, just, caring and more enlightened Labour led progressive government.

      • Tracey 12.2.1

        You mean they havent released policy yet?

        Goldsmith now appearing on billboards in epsom anas has nats ohariu candidate.

  13. whateva next? 13

    …so will this story be pushed by media, so that those who bought shares believing their power company belongs to “them” will know the reality?

  14. alwyn 14

    “It will require American Citizens to file tax returns even if they live overseas. Through laws passed recently New Zealand financial institutions are obliged to provide some information to the US authorities on locally based American citizens.”

    I hope the rest of this post are more accurate than these two sentences.

    ALL American citizens, and holders of Green cards, which allow you to work in the US have been required for many, many years to put in US tax returns. I knew US citizens living in New Zealand 40 years ago who complained bitterly about having to do so. It is certainly nothing new.

    The law passed in New Zealand was to ALLOW New Zealand financial institutions to provide the information, not to force them to do so. Unless the institutions provide the material to the US Government they will essentially be unable to carry out any operations at all in the US if they have any US citizen customers anywhere in the world. They would be walloped with an enormous penalty tax on all their activities in the US. Large multi-national banks really do need to operate in the US if they are going to service their customers. In practice they will tell any US citizens to get lost and will close their accounts. I wonder how Ms Genter would get paid?

    • mickysavage 14.1

      I was trying to summarise rather complex law in a couple of sentences. The imposition of penalties is effectively forcing the institutions to hand over the information. You are right though that the law will require citizens to report assets rather than file returns.

      • alwyn 14.1.1

        Yes it is rather complicated.
        The bit I was objecting to was, at least as I read it, the implication that it is our Government that was putting the pressure on. It isn’t of course as it is the US Government that is leaning on the banks.
        The NZ Government wasn’t putting on the pressure at all. They were merely allowing the large banks to comply with the extreme pressure being put on them by the Democratic Party led Government in the US. Nothing like a bit of bank-bashing to try and win political popularity of course.

  15. Colonial Viper 15

    Infused said: “Kiwibank is a dog”

    A “dog” that all the Aussie banks would line up to buy.

    (didn’t use the reply function as it doesn’t seem to be available on this page on my browser…)
    EDIT hmmm its back now, very odd

    • fender 15.1

      I occasionally notice the reply function going missing, but unlike the missing intelligence in an Infused comment, it returns if the page is refreshed..

      • Chooky 15.1.1

        …i have to log in afresh every time i ‘can out’/leave the Standard and then come back later and reopen the Standard…sort of as if the Standard does not recognise Chooky anymore ….squawk!…lol

        • fender 15.1.1.1

          Only a machine could fail to recognise such fine feathers..

        • Anne 15.1.1.2

          Don’t worry I’m off the Xmas Card list too. Very irritating having to log in every time.

          • Clemgeopin 15.1.1.2.1

            Do you get the ‘confirm’ message for your first post in a topic? I don’t, for some time now.

            • Anne 15.1.1.2.1.1

              Don’t think so Clem. Not sure what you mean by ‘confirm’ message.

              • Clemgeopin

                When you post a comment on a Topic, you need to tick two small boxes asking to get subsequent posted messages into your email. Soon after posting, you should get an email asking you to confirm that you do want to subscribe for that topic to get up dates in your email for notification of further posts.

                Do you get that? I used to before but now I don’t! Do you get notices of new posts/comments by others?

                I don’t get them these days and that is a problem.

                • Anne

                  I’ve always just ‘searched’ my name Clem. It may mean I miss out on a few replies, but by and large its good enough for me. I’m relatively computer illiterate so its best I stick to simple methods. 🙂

          • Puddleglum 15.1.1.2.2

            Same happening with me.

    • Chooky 15.2

      CV…i think Goldman Sach would buy Kiwibank up pronto too…and John Key and his mates with their ‘blind’ trusts and share portfolios…at which point there will be a rush of New Zealanders to leave this Bank and put their money and assets in another bank or cooperative in NZ hands

  16. McFlock 16

    whoops.
    I bet they were hoping that the truth behind their corporate theft wouldn’t come out until after the election.

  17. hellonearthis 17

    $1.6 ummm I think you missed the word million there.

    • mickysavage 17.1

      I would swear it was there! I typed this on a plane and might have deleted it somehow. Now added.

      • Tracey 17.1.1

        Nice work by the chchch accountant to reveal english and treasurys david copperfield with the illusury surpkus

  18. Tautoko Viper 18

    I remembered reading this: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8528140/Incentive-to-sell-MRP-shares-offshore

    “Incentive to sell MRP shares offshore

    The Government’s three major brokers will get double the commission for selling Mighty River Power shares to overseas investment companies rather than New Zealand institutions, Labour state-owned enterprises spokesman Clayton Cosgrove says.

    The Mighty River Power share offer document released last Friday showed the joint lead managers, Goldman Sachs, Macquarie and First NZ Capital, will get 0.4 per cent commission for selling shares to Kiwi institutional investors and 0.8 per cent for share sales to their overseas counterparts.

    Prime Minister John Key has assured New Zealanders that 70 per cent of Mighty River Power shares will remain in Kiwi hands.”

    What a rort!! Twice the commission to sell to foreign investors!!

    Traitors- selling out our country! How can you defend that, Wayne? How can you live with yourself?

  19. Graham 19

    Kiwi bank is a dog
    It’s never paid a dividend it’s effectively subsidised by nz post providing staff and locations to it
    The big banks make mega profits in nz
    Kiwi bank dosent
    Kiwibank has the rats and mice accounts
    The joke is john key is some far right wing radical he is a centrist and the more you guys scream the more votes you give national
    The sad thing is some here tonight will be pleased with the polls at 28%

    • Clemgeopin 19.1

      Kety just COPIED some of the last Labour government’s social policies for votes but his agenda and economical policies are in favour of his wealthy mates and detrimental to the rest.
      Sorry if you haven’t figured that out by now, unless you are a very rich prick yourself.

      • greywarbler 19.1.1

        @Graham 9.40
        Kiwibank is a great idea. You are the dog, the cur that tries to nip bits out of our good country, destroying it wantonly with your gang of elitist monomaniacs, me-too Minimes and naysayers.

    • felix 19.2

      Subsidised by nz post? That’s great. How handy that the state still owns things that can be used for the benefit of the people of NZ.

      The big banks make mega profits in nz? Well that’s no good for us, Graham, because that’s our money going offshore.

      And Kiwi bank doesn’t? Good.

      You make some very good points. It’s a pity you don’t know what they are.

    • Tracey 19.3

      And they remove 15 billion from our country every year, and rising. How excited you must be? I assume you are an Australian?

    • Colonial Viper 19.4

      Kiwi bank is a dog
      It’s never paid a dividend it’s effectively subsidised by nz post providing staff and locations to it

      Oh come on, the DOG meme for Kiwibank, really?

      My bet is that you’ll be amongst the first shit head Right Wingers lining up for the IPO you useless, transparent prick.

  20. mike 20

    What a bunch of envious losers you all are. If you put as much energy into trying to improve your own situation rather than believing all these conspiracy theories,enviously criticising the successful and whinging about your lot you may end up as a high income earner. The top 15% of income earners pay around 80% of income tax collected. Why dont you join in?

    • Murray Olsen 20.1

      What a brain dead wanker you are. There’s no envy here, my own situation is fine, I don’t follow conspiracy theories, but I do want a better Aotearoa for all Kiwis. Your stupid 80% statistic is rubbish, as has been shown many times. Now go and make some more money so one day you can get a trophy wife. Poor thing, I feel for her already. You simply do not understand humanity.

    • Draco T Bastard 20.2

      Very few of those high end earners that you hold in such high esteem actually earn anything. Most of them are the biggest bludgers around.

  21. Graham 21

    @felix
    So the mark of success for a socialist business is to loss money
    You are proberly not aware as most people here aren’t
    Of farmlands , Ats , Ravensdown , balance,Fontera all co-ops
    They designed to return profits back to the shareholders buy lower costs and dividends
    Farmlands has a 2 billion turnover
    Kiwi bank isn’t cheaper than my Aussie bank account
    If it was logically we all would be with them
    The secret is a person like me with a 10 million + morgage and a 7 figure turnover
    Costs the same to administer as a sickness beneficiary
    No bank would ever want to buy kiwi bank

    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1

      About 10% of the market, roughly $100M annual profits.

      A young customer base.

      I suspect Graham’s “analysis” may be politically motivated. You can almost feel the tension 😀

      Cheer up Graham, milk prices are sure to rebound some day.

      • greywarbler 21.1.1

        @Graham 8.15
        You would never think of going to Kiwibank because they wouldn’t be able to lend you as much money as you have managed to leverage out of the bigger banks. And banks exist to lend you money so you can buy up other people’s stuff and add it to your pile, and then buy up and borrow and bury up and…whoops typo there.

        And buy up things and people and sneer and buy up and sack people and sit and stroll and plan and plot and buy up and accrete and excrete and inhale and exhale and get your human ailments treated, and be cossetted in your old age and look at your investments and sneer at those who are poorer. RIP

        Actually I was reading a bit of the book Sarum by Edward Rutherfurd and the part about the Black Death bubonic and pneumonic plague and its aftermath was interesting. It caused so much death and disruption that the villein in the story managed to change and manipulate his situation so well that he ended up a big landowner. You are fortunate that you can do the same and there didn’t even need to be a plague. If there was one perhaps you could buy up the whole of the country!
        villein
        ˈvɪlən,-eɪn/
        noun
        noun: villein; plural noun: villeins

        (in medieval England) a feudal tenant entirely subject to a lord or manor to whom he paid dues and services in return for land.
        
    • Murray Olsen 21.2

      With that turnover, you should be able to afford spelling and grammar lessons.

    • felix 21.3

      “So the mark of success for a socialist business is to loss money”

      Why do you people have to think of everything as a “business”?

      Public services don’t have to “make” money. They have to serve the public.

  22. Chooky 22

    Graham for your information New Zealanders who bank with Kiwibank are very happy…how dare you say it is a dog!

    You are the dog !( insult to dogs) …and a faux Kiwi!…just as your master John Key is a faux New Zealand rugby player…as for John Key posing as an All Black…./dont make me laugh!

    HANDS OFF OUR KIWIBANK!…KEEP IT SAFE FROM THE ROBBERS’ DOGS!

    …this should be an election issue!

    • selector 22.1

      I thought it was an election issue, didn’t the Nats say that Genesis would be the last asset sale and there would be no more on their watch?

      and by way of reminder – Labour sold our assets including NZ Steel. DFC. Air NZ, Rural Bank, Government Printing, State Insurance, THC, etc. Pot. Kettle. Black.

  23. Graham 23

    No one wants kiwi bank don’t you get that
    Why can anz/bnz/ westpac make billions of dividends and kiwi bank none?
    Get this though your thick heads
    No one wants it!!!!!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1

      They say they are investing heavily in growing their market share, which makes sense to everyone except spittle-flecked politically motivated Wormtongues.

      Good of you to confirm the National Party’s future intentions though.

      Thanks.

    • Tracey 23.2

      they can make billions because successive govts on behalf of nz pulled down their pants to aussies and said “take me”

      8

  24. mike 24

    Murray, thanks for your response to my comments. You have illustrated all my points about envy, sense of entitlement and loser mentality perfectly.

    • greywarbler 24.1

      @ mike 11.30
      That’s nice you have had your sense of entitlement to everything you have won confirmed once again. All those disagreeing with you are losers and envious and lacking your perspicacity and perspiration because you are clever and hard-working not like all those others around you. You stand above the common herd and it is good to have that confirmed. Pleased to help you there. Have a good day.

    • framu 24.2

      really mike – seems like murray refuted your assertion – can you point out where he talks of envy and entitlement?

      bet you cant

  25. Graham 25

    @oab
    They haven’t paid dividends
    Why can the big banks reinvest and also pay huge dividends?
    Your kiwi bank is safe because it’s a dog

    • One Anonymous Bloke 25.1

      Do you really need to have it explained to you why banks that operate in more than one country make more money than a bank which has 10% market share in New Zealand?

      Science says right wingers are more likely to have low IQs but I didn’t realise it was universal.

      • john 25.1.1

        Dividends are measured in % yield.

        So whether a business is a large multi-national or a small cap on the NZX, or a home business, that has no bearing on whether they pay a dividend or not.

        Then you make a statement about low IQ on the right – how ironic.

        Or perhaps more accurately – moronic.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 25.1.1.1

          You’re aware that the government, as the sole owner, forsakes dividends, which is why the bank has never paid one, and that the entire stupid attack line is stupid, and demonstrates the stupidity I was alluding to.

          Do you know what forsakes means?

          • greywarbler 25.1.1.1.1

            @OAB 1.37
            You mean ‘For God’s Sake’? Or woe God has forsaken us, here in God’s Own!
            And been replaced by john. Who knows how to measure IQs, but not His Own.

    • framu 25.2

      how long till you tell us how awesome your farm is graham?

      im guessing your the same loud mouth bozo from dimpost

  26. reason 26

    Yup ………….. the same Graham who tells us there’s no shit entering our rivers from farms.

    And he thinks 1 million is a half of our population.

    He know’s some strange stuff our Graham ………..

  27. Cactus Kate 27

    “They are described in the SST article as having last year renounced their American Citizenship, presumably so that they are not caught by the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.

    It will require American Citizens to file tax returns report certain assets to the IRS even if they live overseas. Through laws passed recently New Zealand financial institutions are obliged to provide some information to the US authorities on locally based American citizens”

    No – Yanks have always had to report assets and income overseas in the USA and file returns based on this regardless of where they live so FATCA makes no difference to this requirement. This couple would have had to pay a fortune in US taxes over the years when they were at their wealthiest and as they have renounced their citizenship there is an assumption they have been fully compliant with US taxes because it is a requirement in the process.

    FATCA allows the Yanks to get information directly as to whether a US person (wide definition) has a bank accounts overseas. That’s all. It will not catch anyone with massive amounts of wealth (your FATCAT envy description), just low level morons who haven’t got proper advice or more than likely haven’t listened to it, or just the bits they want to hear. And the NZ taxpayer has to pay for the privilege of assisting.

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