Nat / ACT don’t think poor people should have kids

Written By: - Date published: 7:01 am, July 13th, 2017 - 128 comments
Categories: act, class war, families, human rights, national - Tags: , , , , , ,

In railing against Labour’s targeted assistance to low income families, ACT’s David Seymour showed us yet again the ugly side of tory politics:

OK then. Poor people shouldn’t be allowed to have kids. That probably sounds very familiar, and so it should, because the Nats have said similar things over the years. The dearly departed John Key “thought” (despite all the evidence to the contrary) that parents on the DPB were “breeding for a business”. And:

Bennett: No compulsory contraception for now

Social Development Minister Paula Bennett is “a big fan” of long acting contraception for solo mums but says her Government is “not quite” at the stage of making it compulsory. …

and:

State may try to stop some families having more children

Some families who have come to the attention of authorities may be stopped from having more children by the Government.

Tolley acknowledged it would be a “huge step” for the state to start telling people that they could not have another child, but said it was “a conversation that New Zealanders, perhaps, need to have”.

Tolley did not rule out limiting or preventing some families from having another child, but said she would wait to see what the panel recommended in December. …

and:

Government mulling ways to stop ‘unfit’ parents reproducing

The Government is considering a range of hard-line measures to try and stop ‘unfit’ parents from having more children.

Paula Bennett says she and her colleagues have had enough and are putting together a White Paper on the issue.

“I can tell you that they are completely fed up with these children continuously being born to completely unfit parents. That’s a step that’s right out there, and I can tell you there is certainly discussion going on around it.”

Defining and controlling who is and isn’t entitled to have children is a very slippery slope indeed. Denying children to those deemed “too poor” is way down the slope and picking up speed towards eugenics. These are the kinds of attitudes that we need to vote out of office in September.


Some more Seymour and responses on Twitter:

Full credit to @LewSOS for this contribution:

128 comments on “Nat / ACT don’t think poor people should have kids”

  1. Andre 1

    Yet, it would be a really good thing for the future of the planet and humanity for humans to have fewer kids. In particular, fewer resource gobbling wealthy western kids (and yes, even poor families in NZ are still in the category of resource-squandering wealthy westerners). The faster the world depopulates voluntarily, the less likely a really unpleasant involuntary depopulation becomes.

    How to have that conversation and shift societal expectations so that no kids or just one or at most two becomes the normal expected thing? Raise the topic here and you usually get labelled eugenicist in short order.

    • BM 1.1

      Raise the topic here and you usually get labelled eugenicist in short order.

      Women’s rights trump the environment, which is why you get this disconnect.

      The environment for many on here sits at either 2 or 3 on the list of most important

      • KJT 1.1.1

        Empowering women and making them richer and with more control over their lives is proven to reduce birth rates.

        Making more and more young women, poor, dependent and desperate, as we are in New Zealand will increase birth rates.

    • r0b 1.2

      Yet, it would be a really good thing for the future of the planet and humanity for humans to have fewer kids. …. Raise the topic here and you usually get labelled eugenicist in short order.

      Of course it would be good to decrease population growth. Empowering women via education and access to contraception has done exactly that, and is a good thing. Nothing eugenicist about that.

      The problems start when you start targeting “undesirables” with pressure / compulsion.

      • Heather Grimwood 1.2.1

        I didn’t take comments of above politicians as referring to educated unforced reduction in population at all…..quite the reverse.

        • Stunned Mullet 1.2.1.1

          @Heather – quite so, r0b failed to frame his dogwhistling as well as he usually does.

          • McFlock 1.2.1.1.1

            I suspect the double negative threw you a bit, unless you took the comments of above politicians as referring to the forced and uneducated reduction in population.

      • Lara 1.2.2

        “Empowering women via education and access to contraception has done exactly that”

        Exactly.

        And I’ll add, RESPECTING women and their right to make decisions about their own bodies and their own fertility.

        Give them the tools, don’t shame them when they use those tools, and women will have less children.

        The birth rate in NZ is below replacement rate. NZ women already ARE doing our bit to reduce global populations.

      • Sabine 1.2.3

        how about we empower men with the knowledge that any time they fuck they could potentially father a child that a. they don’t want, b. they can’t afford?
        how about we empower men with the knowledge that if they want to fuck without fathering children they could get the snip, use a condom or simply not fuck, also you know free handkerchiefs for men every Monday, available at your local Planned Parenthood?

        it is long past time for men to advocate for man to be empowered to only have the children they can afford, they want to raise and not a one more.

        • RedLogix 1.2.3.1

          Interesting how women want to have complete control over their reproduction, yet demand men take all the responsibility.

          • The New Student 1.2.3.1.1

            Not ALL responsibility, thank you. It’s long overdue for men to step up and take their fair share on.

            Girls in my classes are being told they need to both supply AND apply condoms. because the male cannot be expected to do it all by himself; it can also ruin the ‘moment’. They were flabbergasted when I said that’s a crock. Sad but true 🙁

          • Sabine 1.2.3.1.2

            we don’t have complete contol over reproduction.

            when abortion is available on demand, without having to see three doctors and pay for that privilege for a bogus bullshit reason – so that blokes like the housing welfare fraud can feel in control with their religion – without being considered a criminal by the law, without having ‘forced birthers’ shouting abuse at patients at clinics we don’y have control.

            Until then, Men have responsibilities, in fact if you want to protect your son –
            should you have one – from children he does not want you will teach him to only fuck with a condom, get a snip or wank it of. Cause that literally is how men prevent pregnancy. Also same for your daughter, if you don’t want her to have children she can;’t afford you get her to a doctor so she gets on the pill the moment she looks like she is gonna fuck her boyfriend.

            • swordfish 1.2.3.1.2.1

              Teach him to only fuck with a condom, get a snip or wank it off

              Geez !!! Forget the Salons & Literary Academies of 19C Paris … head over the border because you Bavarians are all charm & eloquence personified, aren’t you

              But then, I guess you’d expect a region characterised by morbidly-obese Teutonic men in short leather trousers to exhibit a certain Je ne sais quoi

              • Sabine

                you know what, if more people would actually explain their kids how to fuck responsibly we might not have these Act / nationals whinging how ‘poor women should not have the children they have’.

                oh and Bavarians are not morbidly obese they are well fed and their well fednessness is a testimony to the good cooking of their wifes/husbands 🙂

                • swordfish

                  Ha ! To be honest I more or less nicked the last bit from Blackadder Goes Forth:

                  Blackadder: [getting up close to Captain Darling]

                  Shut your cakehole, sonny, I know you! Tell me, Von Darling, what was it that finally won you over, eh?! Was it the pumpernickel, or was it the thought of hanging around with big men in leather shorts?!

                  But what really amuses me: I posted that comment 10 minutes before reading the exchange between you & BM here …

                  Non-news News and News Non-news

                  coincidence … serendipity …

                • It’s explained in secondary school already. They also tell people to respect their partner’s or friends’ decisions if they decide to say no to sex, so you even get education about abstinence and consent in to boot! How about that, balanced and factual sex ed, huh? Every parent should be encouraging their kids to pay attention to those classes in years nine and ten, even if they’re already given them the talk.

                  The reality is that poor people don’t have children because they never learned about safe sex. They have children because birth control isn’t as accessible when you’re broke, and especially not when you’re on a benefit. And if you’re underfed because you’re eating less to make sure the kids do okay, it’s harder to keep track of contraceptive pills if you can manage to afford those, so a lot of it is really just that if we chipped in and supported each other, people would actually end up having smaller families anyway, so both the left and the right get what they want. And of course, just like anyone else, sometimes they have children deliberately and because they want them and will really love them and take care of them, and if you start setting policy to prevent that for people on benefits, we really will be getting into eugenics territory.

                  (Honestly, we should be subsidizing birth control 100% anyway, because when it’s used for purpose, it saves money, and sometimes the hormonal varieties are actually prescribed for non-contraceptive medical uses, too)

                  I won’t bother to comment on Bavaria, as my experience is almost all to the west in Schwabia, but I can attest to the high quality of cooking in Germany in general, although I imagine I wouldn’t get quite as fat again if I visited now, given that I’m vegetarian.

    • The Fairy Godmother 1.3

      Yes but a child born to a minimum wage family is going to use far less resources than say one born to a ceo living in Remuera. Less plane trips to Disney land and a smaller house. Less energy use ie no swimming pool to heat and so on. If we want to protect the environment it is the rich that should be targeted to have less children.

    • KJT 1.4

      Yes. It would be a good thing for the planet if more people didn’t have kids.

      Especially wealthy people, who will grow up to use infinitely more resources, pollute more and spend more on planet destroying activities, than the poor.

  2. Heather Grimwood 2

    Makes me sick to realise again the thinking of Seymour and Bennet. I see that of the latter in particular as dangerously akin to that prevailing in pre-war Germany.

  3. garibaldi 3

    I agree with you Andre @ 8.28 and I think these issues are important but insurmountable. To put it mildly we haven’t got a shit show in hell of stopping people world wide from having sex!

    • Andre 3.1

      I dunno that it’s insurmountable. China did it, in a really viciously brutal way. Japan and most of Europe have done it without overt coercion.

      • Zeroque 3.1.1

        Yes, and many people do it in NZ, have less or no kids that is. It does come with it’s problems though but then so does having to many. I wonder whether it will eventually happen in poorer places such as the many countries in Africa that have very high birth rates, as these nations become wealthier and the population more educated? Trouble is that’s going to take a very long time and I doubt we have that much time.

        • Andre 3.1.1.1

          Well, looking at where on earth high population growth happens now and is projected for the future, I have a horrible feeling that’s also where climate change is going to cause a really unpleasant involuntary depopulation.

      • lprent 3.1.2

        We have done it. NZ has been well below the birth replacement rate since I was in my 20s (so long ago).

        When my sister was born in 1963 to make up a 3 kid family, it was considered to be a small family at the time.

        The only thing that sustains and increases our population has been the usual yearly trickle of immigration over the decades since 1970.

        Unfortunately National have changed that over recent years to cover their economic incompetence. To deal with the downturn in export prices, they have flooded in enough immigration to strain our infrastructure and resources. The return of overseas kiwis fleeing the economic after effects of the GFC just increased the problem.

        • Andre 3.1.2.1

          Yes, we’re there in terms of fertility rate and the vast majority of our population increase is immigration. Yet even if net migration for NZ were precisely zero, we would still have a rising population, because of rising longevity. Much like China still has a rising population even though their fertility rate has been well below replacement for quite a while.

          We’re also not there yet with regard to societal expectations. Women still get all kinds of pressure on them to sprogulate, even those who make it abundantly clear they really don’t want to.

          • marty mars 3.1.2.1.1

            What would you like to happen?

            • Andre 3.1.2.1.1.1

              I would like a shift in society’s mindset to recognise that we’ve already got too fkn many humans on this planet. So that it’s recognised that population growth is actually a bad thing. So that the fact that Japan and Italy and others have a falling population isn’t framed as a demographic disaster in the making, but rather they’re leading the way into a future that needs to happen.

              As part of that, I’d like to see young people that choose no kids or only one get recognised as making better choices for the future of the planet, rather than shamed for not contributing to the future workforce or not “continuing the line”. And yes, for the future of the planet, it would be really good if “large family shaming” became a thing, rather than large families being celebrated as happens now.

    • jcuknz 3.2

      Nobody is arguing agin sex .. just the consequences of it.

      • Kevin 3.2.1

        Except Paula Bennett, that is:

        “Social Development Minister Paula Bennett is “a big fan” of long acting contraception for solo mums but says her Government is “not quite” at the stage of making it compulsory.”

        And we know what phase two would be…

        • KJT 3.2.1.1

          Maybe it should have been compulsory for her parents?

          • McFlock 3.2.1.1.1

            or for her – doesn’t her life story involve the DPB? Minister Bennett is “not quite” at the point of forced contraception of futere Minister bennetts.

            • Kevin 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Two trips down DPB lane for Bennett as she found the stress of working a bit too much. Poor baby.

        • Johan 3.2.1.2

          For Paula it has always been do as I say not as I do.

  4. patricia bremner 4

    This is a slippery slope towards class war.
    All the poor have is family.
    We need to be talking about what to do for those already here, who are coping with bad attitudes.
    We do not need a conversation framed by that twisted party. Just listing past members says it all.
    The poor did not choose their fate, and do not have the levers of power.

    • tc 4.1

      There’s already a class war on.

      It started in 2008 and continued unabated right through to flogging state house, cutting funding to community organisations who assist the needy etc

  5. Cinny 5

    Peoples circumstances change, often it is beyond their control.

    No one plans to bring up their children in poverty.

    Is ACT offering free contraception? Are they going to sterilise men? Will they do anything to change the abortion laws?

    Yeah women are just going to get pregnant to get a few extra dollars, pregnancy and child birth is so easy on a womans body NOT.

    Maybe if there wasn’t a housing crisis there would not be so much poverty.

    TIP.. If you want to have many kids, why not become a politician? The tax payer will pay your entire salary and perks, it worked for Bill English.

    Blaming parents still does nothing to help the kids, it’s not their fault, will some kids now be thinking… I shouldn’t have been born it’s my fault that my family is poor.

    • Andre 5.1

      I think keeping a focus on supporting all kids and making sure opportunities are available to all regardless of family circumstances is a good approach.

      So i support ideas like free school breakfast and lunch (I’ve eaten plenty at school cafeterias in the US), free school clothing, free healthcare, anything that goes directly to the kids.

      However, there is at least a tiny grain of truth to the RW trope of breeding for a living. I’m personally aware of two examples that fit the description, although I really doubt it’s anywhere near as widespread as RWers think. But the fact that it exists at all makes me hesitant to support unconditional cash payments upon the arrival of another kid.

      • RedLogix 5.1.1

        I’m personally aware of two examples that fit the description, although I really doubt it’s anywhere near as widespread as RWers think.

        In my experience it happens because of a failure to form stable families. While I agree it’s not common, it’s still surprisingly easy for a woman to have 4-5 children by 3 or more fathers. It’s a tough position to land up in, and the children are vulnerable to all manner of bad statistics.

        And the failure to form a stable family almost always has its roots in low, unstable and insecure incomes.

        • Stunned Mullet 5.1.1.1

          Unintentional double entendres by the bucket load…

        • Sabine 5.1.1.2

          so you are complaining about women failing to form ‘stable relationships’ or also man?

          and the men who fathers children and then walks out on them to father some more children with another women, and then with another women – like you know fathering 4 – 5 children with 3 or more women is that also surprising or is that his god given right as a man?

          and are you saying that the failure to form stable families has never happened to families with very rich people? I remember this Hoskings dude who walked out on his wife shortly after she gave birth to twins? should she now not have the right to another ‘family’ and maybe even ‘ other’ children with her potenially new partner then?

      • KJT 5.1.2

        If you look at the statistics. Breeding for a living is not exactly common.

        The typical woman on the DPB is over 30, with a couple of kids, who has been abandoned, or left due to abuse, her husband or partner.

        In fact less common than when the DPB was non existent. Go figure.

        And. If it is a problem, surely the answer is to give young women more education, income, power and prospects. All proven methods of reducing birth rates.

        • RedLogix 5.1.2.1

          surely the answer is to give young women more education, income, power and prospects.

          And for most young people that means forming a stable family. I don’t care what form or shape that household takes; but doing it on your own is just tough. And fraught with poor outcomes.

          • Andre 5.1.2.1.1

            Sadly I have to agree for the moment.

            I’d really like to see society change to become much more accepting of people choosing solo and/or childless lives, and make it easier for them to do so. It really gets to me seeing the pressure young people get (women much more than men) to settle down, have kids, do the nice respectable family thing.

          • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.2.1.2

            As long as you’re not talking about “staying together for the kids,” as what happens there is the kids learn that people who don’t have feelings for each other anymore don’t make the greatest co-parents, and that a little distance might have been a good thing after all. (besides, couples can split and still co-parent, it just involves showing up for each other as friends and as support)

            Likewise, I’d actually like to see more of Ngati Pakeha taking on the idea of whanau and using their extended family more heavily in their parenting. (the best of us already do, but if we’re not learning from Māori, we’re not really being kiwi enough) “It takes a village” is a cliché for a reason.

      • Sabine 5.1.3

        If we want to have a discussion about people having children it means we have that discussion for all children and not just the one some disprove of.

        The question that i have, does ACT mean the 750 Fonterra workers that lost their jobs three years ago? Does it mean that the Cadbury workers in Dunedin that lost their jobs are irresponsible for having children while not being a. a polititian who will get paid irrespective of the shit show they pull, or b. Paula Bennett who never went of social welfare. Mike Hoskins wife, after he dumped her and his children, should she have had these children if he could not afford child support? and does Mike Hosins carry any responsability? Or do men just get to fuck about and around and thats it?

        As for ‘breeding’ for money, do you think Paula Bennett did just that? i mean she could have had an abortion, she could not have fucked around, she could have gotten herself a job to support herself and such. But hey, she did not?
        So she bred her child for money?

        • KJT 5.1.3.1

          I hope everyone noticed that, with todays rules neither Paula Bennett or Metiria Turei would have been able to go to uni. Lack of the TIA and the current rules that force young mums to take the first low paid, zero hours job offered when their child turns three, would have prevented it.

    • James 5.2

      “TIP.. If you want to have many kids, why not become a politician? The tax payer will pay your entire salary and perks, it worked for Bill English.”

      Not just a politician- but any reasonable job should do the trick.

      • reason 5.2.1

        reasonable jobs no longer cut it under National …… James

        Its the tax cheats and speculators who are rewarded under National … through Johnny Made-off, our ex-PM,,,,,, National have speculated those with reasonable jobs out of home owning in Auckland, Wellington and growing swathes of New Zealand.

        It’s been open season on honest workers doing reasonable jobs under National … http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/278318/housing-too-pricey-for-working-poor

        http://nzccss.org.nz/work/poverty/facts-about-poverty/fact-5-getting-a-job-doesnt-solve-the-poverty-problem/

        You’ve got more bullshit in you than a NZ river running through Dairy county … James

      • Cinny 5.2.2

        Kids need love, encouragement, and stability above everything else.

        There are many kids in wealthy families that go without those important things, which is really sad, because they are suffering too, emotionally suffering, the emptiness they must feel, the rejection, would be awful for any child.

        Speaking with Mum about it today, she told me that it is a right wing argument that has been going on for years, and right wingers usually pull it out at election time when they having nothing else to offer or when they have crap candidates. A bullshit argument which does nothing to ease any child that is suffering.

        I’d like to see a parenting channel on the TV, 24/7 parenting tips, advice etc etc, I reckon that would help so many out there, rich or poor.

        And on the parenting channel, put some reality tv episodes like teen parents and intervention, And how to get help in NZ etc etc etc

  6. Pete 6

    History shows that what some kids end up doing makes their being born something that might be regretted. I’m not sure that Seymour refers to that.

    Some might postulate that on a sliding scale of such a notion his parents should also have not given one particular birth.

    I accept any criticism of placing this sentiment. When leaders of our society, like the erstwhile member for Epsom, promulgate such ways of thinking though, surely that is the standard we are all entitled to.

  7. Defining and controlling who is and isn’t entitled to have children is a very slippery slope indeed.

    Figuring out ways to help clearly unfit parents to stop producing new abuse recipients every year or two isn’t “defining and controlling who is and isn’t entitled to have children,” it’s “trying to find ways to do something about a serious problem.”

    Seymour may be a cunt, but there’s a huge constituency out there of voters who get sick of hearing how people on no or very low incomes are having trouble paying for the six, eight, ten, you-name-it children they’ve produced. I don’t have any problem counting myself part of that constituency – the only additional assistance I’d like the government to provide those people with is an instructional video on where babies come from and a lifetime guarantee of free contraception.

    • KJT 7.1

      So. you use something that is , in reality, rare, to justify cutting support for all solo mothers.

      I hope you realise that Paula Bennett would not have been able to get a degree under current WINZ rules. She would have had to take the first low paid zero hours job offered, as soon as her child turned 3.

      • Psycho Milt 7.1.1

        So. you use something that is , in reality, rare, to justify cutting support for all solo mothers.

        In whatever fantasy you made up for yourself, maybe. Here in the world outside your skull, I haven’t suggested cutting support for anyone, let alone sole parents.

        I hope you realise that Paula Bennett would not have been able to get a degree under current WINZ rules.

        I do. Was the implication that I don’t intended to be relevant in some way?

        • KJT 7.1.1.1

          Why would you bother repeating the false meme about “myriads breeding for money”, if you didn’t want more draconian rules for solo mums.

          In fact it is the 2 to 8 children of those on high incomes who will grow up to use much more resources, cause more pollution, advocate antisocial distribution of wealth, and try and cut welfare to those less fortunate.

          Maybe they should not be allowed to breed.

          • Psycho Milt 7.1.1.1.1

            If you must reply to things you just made up, could you stop putting them under my comments? It’s misleading.

            • KJT 7.1.1.1.1.1

              “voters who get sick of hearing how people on no or very low incomes are having trouble paying for the six, eight, ten, you-name-it children they’ve produced. I don’t have any problem counting myself part of that constituency”–

              Dogwhistle false meme.

              Welfare recipients with 8 kids are as rare as underfed kids who become millionaires.

  8. mary_a 8

    Paua Bennett was dependent on state assistance when she had her daughter, who also later become a single parent herself. By NACT’s standards, neither would have been considered in a position to have children at the time!

    So who/what gives NACT the right to pass judgement on the poor or those reliant on the state to live? In many instances circumstances change, leaving families in situations beyond their control. I don’t believe poverty and hardship are personal choices.

    • Heather Grimwood 8.1

      to Mary at 8 : I agree entirely……..absolute hypocrisy, though I don’t say that in a venomous way but more as an observation. I just think they are immature.
      Reminds me of the old-time saying that there’s none so dogmatically judgmental than those who have changed set.
      Tragic though to think of the power they presently have.

  9. ianmac 9

    About 50+ years ago it was discovered that the Government in India had a bizarre birth control plan. Ticket booths for theatres in certain zones had radiation pointed outwards. So that as people fronted up to buy tickets a burst of radiation sterilised them.
    I cannot find any record on Googling but that is my recollection.

  10. Kevin 10

    I know it easy to label a politician’s utterances as hypocritical, but Bennett takes the fucking cake.

    Every time she opens her big fat pie hole on this topic it makes my blood boil. Not only was she a solo mother bring up a child on the DPB, but she was on it TWICE because going back to work was too stressful for the poor wee diddums.

    Peoples circumstances can change in the blink of an eye. People don’t choose to be poor. I know people who have had good, well paying jobs end up poor bringing up kids through circumstances beyond their control.

    • tc 10.1

      Hypocrisy is a mandatory requirement for a national MP.

      Her biggest achievement is pulling up the ladder she used so noone else can.

      All duely assisted by key, english and the lackeys they installed in the govt depts to execute their plans with a taxpayer holiday in the states as a reward.

  11. Guerilla Surgeon 11

    Oh, so we’re back to the concept of deserving and undeserving poor. How forward-looking/sarc.

  12. Psych nurse 12

    A man who has political intercourse with all and sundry should be aware that accidents happen, take the child who calls Epsom home for instance.

  13. Venezia 13

    How convenient that this eugenics policy should be pushed by NACTional at a time they are desperate to find ways to funnel more and more taxpayers funding to corporates, to their international tax haven mates, and to the wealthy. The policy needs to be publicised for what it is. Especially in election year.

  14. Karen 14

    I am one of 5 children born to poor parents. Luckily, we had a state house to live in, our education was free and food was not expensive in relation to my Dad’s working class wage. It was a struggle but nothing like the problems faced by poor families now.

    The problem is that we have allowed poverty to exist in a country where there should be none. The problem is the rich, not the poor. Let’s get rid of the rich.

    • Kevin 14.1

      Poverty is now so entrenched, it is considered the norm for a percentage of the population and for those persons to be deserving of others scorn.

      NZ is now one fucked up country.

    • KJT 14.2

      I was one of five bought up by low income parents. In their case by choice as they chose socially orientated rather than well paid work.

      Even so we all grew up to have good jobs, and pay millions in taxes.

    • Pedro 14.3

      Well done Karen, in your head you are still living in the 1970s. You can’t and shouldn’t breed 5 children and expect them to live prosperously these days without a very large income.

  15. mac1 15

    An issue which brings out the worst in some people’s attitudes and beliefs.

    This is part of the blame game that the heartless, well off, judgmental elements in our society use. Blame the poor for having children- not blame the rich and the well-off for sequestering the world’s resources.

    My solution to having too many children is to help everybody be well-off. The best contraceptive is a higher standard of living. I have two children, I was one of four children, my father one of six, my grandfather one of eight. Good catholic family, so no artificial contraception in the earlier generations. The numbers dropped as the family and society prospered.

    Who has actually done the research as to why couples have children in whatever numbers they do? I can think of several factors- religion, inability to afford reliable contraception, ignorance of good contraceptive practice, social expectations, family expectations. It used to be that having more children ensured survival of enough to fulfil the roles of children in a family- chores, work, income, care of the elderly parents and grand-parents, changes in personal and family circumstances.

    How much is to do with the modern practice of single parent families, people having multiple partners in life for shorter periods than a fifty year marriage, and the need to celebrate that union with a child or two?

    I don’t know the answers but I am sure that the research will have been done and that it’s little to do with “breeding for benefits” or irresponsibility.

  16. jcuknz 16

    I am a fan of the ‘responsible society’ which cares for its population BUT having numerous kids is not being responsible to either the country nor the world.
    If the individual cannot be responsible then either the state denies care* or takes action to enable the individual.
    Talk of changed circumstances is a red herring and does not apply. If circumstances change then the state should take responsibility … but not if it is caused by irresponsibility.
    Just as the market is distorted by multiple building ownership being tax free so also the concept of women irresponsibly having more kids which become a burden on the state.
    * Years ago the help was targeted towards the child but the ‘do gooders’ changed that to the current system with unintended consequences we face today which threaten the viability of the system.

  17. Reality 17

    As has been compared with Australia recently, the cost of food in NZ is very high especially with gst added to everything. Add high petrol and transport costs, education, rent, clothing, medical expenses etc, it is no wonder so many struggle even if working. Plus if the car needs fixing, or the washing machine breaks down, it is not surprising there are huge problems for families. NZ is not a cheap place to live in.

  18. Reality 18

    These comments were not agreeing with that cold mean looking woman above. Their children are all that some people have of value in their difficult daily struggles.

    • jcuknz 18.1

      My concern is for the children without proper food/clothing but aware from reading what an American woman wrote that while she knew she was doing wrong she needed the little bit of gratification to make life livable. She was writing about smoking but it applies to other aspects of life.

  19. mac1 19

    A cartoon in yesterday’s paper asked a very pertinent question.
    Little/Labour-“Has a plan to throw more money at struggling people who have kids.”
    English/national- “Has a plan to throw more money at struggling people who don’t have kids.”
    Unknown leader/party- “Has a plan to tackle the reasons people are struggling.”

    The question is who has the third plan?

    • Draco T Bastard 19.1

      The question is who has the third plan?

      Which party is promising to get rid of capitalism and legislate the rich out of existence?

      • Cemetery Jones 19.1.1

        Getting rid of capitalism hasn’t exactly had the best track record in tackling the reasons people are struggling though, has it?

        • Draco T Bastard 19.1.1.1

          Replacing private capitalism with state capitalism isn’t getting rid of capitalism.

          • Cemetery Jones 19.1.1.1.1

            Dancing on the head of a pin really. Central planning was a disaster when we measure its effect on inequality. The fact that some AKs and MiGs got exported for foreign exchange earnings remains simply window dressing. Social democracy is still unbeatable for getting rid of inequality.

            • Draco T Bastard 19.1.1.1.1.1

              Central planning was a disaster when we measure its effect on inequality.

              The central planning the NZ did worked quite well. Since we’ve dropped that things have gotten much worse.

              Social democracy is still unbeatable for getting rid of inequality.

              It’s the best that we’ve tried so far but it still failed because of it still being based upon capitalism.

              • Cemetery Jones

                Sure, we used a limited amount of central planning in the context of a mixed economy and mostly in areas where private enterprise isn’t required or won’t be socially responsible – power plants, rail network, etc. We don’t need them to be profit focused barring what it takes to maintain and improve the plant etc. But what, we need collectivised agriculture and state grocery stores? Consumer goods? I don’t see any reason to produce those by central planning. Regulation definitely, it’s vital that the state delineates food hygiene standards, labelling, safety and so on which capitalism won’t do unless we set those rules. But central planning doesn’t invent cool stuff (all due respect to Soviet military equipment and the fluke development of Tetris).

                Most of what we achieved with central planning was ultimately stuff which wasn’t invented under those conditions, and probably wouldn’t have been. How does a centrally planned economy turn that individual’s lightbulb moment into a product line? Social democracy with the right legal framework can stop Microsoft from exploiting people and make them pay their taxes. But a centrally planned economy will never produce the likes of Microsoft, only copy it once someone in a free system invents it.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  But what, we need collectivised agriculture and state grocery stores?

                  We already have those. The problem is that it’s only a few people in the collective and so the benefits aren’t properly distributed. In fact, the benefits pretty much just go to the bludgers known as shareholders.

                  A ‘farmer’ can own multiple farms and not work at any of them. Why shouldn’t the government do the same? Oh, wait, they do and they generally work better than the privately owned ones. You’ll note that there isn’t any government planning though.

                  Consumer goods? I don’t see any reason to produce those by central planning.

                  I do. It’s cheaper per person. What you don’t want is for them to be designed by central planning.

                  And, again, that’s pretty much how private enterprise works as well. They have multiple design teams and a centralised production. Hell, they may not even bother doing the production themselves like Apple.

                  How does a centrally planned economy turn that individual’s lightbulb moment into a product line?

                  By making it possible to have that light-bulb moment reach the production line. Something that capitalism is actually really bad at. In fact, it gets in the way of it because it can’t support competition.

                  But a centrally planned economy will never produce the likes of Microsoft, only copy it once someone in a free system invents it.

                  And that’s just ideological bollocks. What is needed is support for people to be entrepreneurial and capitalism fails badly at that as it removes support from the majority so as to make a few rich.

                  And, after all that, no one here is in favour of central planning. Least of all me.

                  Central planning is what capitalism is, that’s what it’s hierarchical systems always bring about. As we see here and here.

                  • Cemetery Jones

                    That’s such a fallacy. If you get to the point that you admit central planning only works so long as ‘design’ isn’t centrally planned, then you realise already that it’s an argument with feet of clay. Who decides who designs in such a system? You say this:

                    “What is needed is support for people to be entrepreneurial and capitalism fails badly at that as it removes support from the majority so as to make a few rich.”

                    Nobody I know who went into business for themselves needed “support” to get going. They needed skills, products, or services that people were willing to pay money for. They didn’t need to design something and then hand it over to the central planners for approval. The customer decided that for them, based on what they desired to spend their money on.

                    If you’re going to admit that design needs to take place outside of the central planning paradigm, they you already admit it can’t work on a systemic level. How are we to be entrepreneurial if we’ve been assigned to fulfil quotas at the copper wire plant? How do we proceed if we know our idea is good, but the central planners have declined to offer their ‘support’ and we can’t do anything about it ourselves because capitalism is illegal and central planners control the resources? It’s a control freak’s paradise at best. The idea that you’ll get less hierarchy from that system is breath taking. And seriously at odds with historic evidence.

                    EDIT: and while we were here, I’ve still seen nothing to show how ending capitalism will rid us of inequality, and nothing to suggest that there’s a better model than social democracy.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Who decides who designs in such a system?

                      The people who want to.

                      They didn’t need to design something and then hand it over to the central planners for approval.

                      I didn’t say that they hand it over to the central planners for approval. They would submit it to the factory to get it produced. No approval needed. If people see it on the market then they can buy it or not.

                      There’s less seeking approval than in a capitalist system because in a capitalists system you do need to get approval first usually by being an employee.

                      Nobody I know who went into business for themselves needed “support” to get going.

                      Every person who goes into business for themselves needed support from the community in one form or another. There are no self-made millionaires.

                      If you’re going to admit that design needs to take place outside of the central planning paradigm, they you already admit it can’t work on a systemic level.

                      What a load of bollocks. The state makes factories and resources available and then people submit designs to the factories to have them produced.

                      How are we to be entrepreneurial if we’ve been assigned to fulfil quotas at the copper wire plant?

                      Who said anything about assigning anybody anywhere? I sure as hell didn’t.

                      How do we proceed if we know our idea is good, but the central planners have declined to offer their ‘support’ and we can’t do anything about it ourselves because capitalism is illegal and central planners control the resources?

                      /facepalm

                      You seem to be ignoring everything I’ve said like the bit where I said there’d be no central planning.

                      State support through free education, freely available factories to use, a way to bring people with the same idea together and a UBI.

                      and while we were here, I’ve still seen nothing to show how ending capitalism will rid us of inequality

                      That’s because you’re not reading what I’m saying but having a knee-jerk reaction to the removal of capitalism and screaming Central Planning, Central Planning, Central Planning, Central Planning, Central Planning.

                    • Cemetery Jones

                      Well that’s because you’ve started out defending central planning, then changed tack and claimed that actually you’re not arguing for it, even …. though …. you’ve just spent several posts doing exactly that before belatedly introducing the claim that actually you’re talking about something else, it’s just that unlike central planning, that something else is something you’ve not mentioned or agued for in any level of proactive detail.

                    • Well that’s because you’ve started out defending central planning

                      [Citation Needed]

        • KJT 19.1.1.2

          Government shares of the economy over 60% has worked rather well. Including New Zealand in the past.

          • Cemetery Jones 19.1.1.2.1

            That’s not getting rid of capitalism though, it’s a sensible mixed economy.

            • KJT 19.1.1.2.1.1

              Capitalism works fine for market gardens, small building businesses and the corner store.

              For large scale infrastructure and innovation, not so much.

  20. Draco T Bastard 20

    One of the reasons we cannot afford the rich is:

    Modelling a range of different scenarios, Motesharrei and his colleagues conclude that under conditions “closely reflecting the reality of the world today… we find that collapse is difficult to avoid.” In the first of these scenarios, civilisation:

    “…. appears to be on a sustainable path for quite a long time, but even using an optimal depletion rate and starting with a very small number of Elites, the Elites eventually consume too much, resulting in a famine among Commoners that eventually causes the collapse of society. It is important to note that this Type-L collapse is due to an inequality-induced famine that causes a loss of workers, rather than a collapse of Nature.”

    We’re now at the point where we have famine among Commoners and thus the working population can no longer support themselves resulting in an overall decline.

    Nat/ACT’s call for people to have less children will hasten that decline and they’re open gates policy for immigration won’t address the problem caused by the rich taking up all the resources.

  21. Lara 21

    The problem I have with this tired old trope being trotted out, is it usually quickly devolves into bashing women (metaphorically) and suggesting forced sterilisation. Of women. Somehow rarely men.

    The argument ignores three very important points:

    1. No one can see the future. Severe illness, economic recessions or depressions or death in the family can quickly and dramatically change financial circumstances. A couple may be comfortable when they conceive a child, and poor after that child’s birth.

    2. No method of contraception works 100% all the time. Sometimes contraception fails. Would ACT advocate forced abortion for poor women who get pregnant as a result of failed contraception? Or do they suggest poor women don’t get to have sexual lives?

    3. Not all pregnancies are the result of consensual sex. Conception can be the result of rape.

    From the reading and research I have done on this topic I have concluded that it’s down primarily to one factor, this reduction of birth rates.

      Respect.

    For women. Give us the tools (contraception, and yes, abortion), show us how they work, and leave it up to us to make our own decisions about our own bodies. When that happens, no matter what the GDP of the country, women choose less babies. The birth rate falls.

    And finally, the birth rate at 1.87 in NZ is already below replacement rate of 2.1. Actually no need to force anyone to do anything, our birth rate is low and dropping.

    • Andre 21.1

      I have no problem at all with the idea of compulsory vasectomies for the fathers of benefit-dependent children.

    • RRM 21.2

      Who’s talking about forced sterilization?

      Only the left, fantasizing that that’s what Act wants to do.

      (Never mind the whole history of the 20th century that suggests it is mainly communists who embark on wholesale campaigns of domesticgenocide… )

      • Lara 21.2.1

        ACT have suggested forced sterilisation.

        Pretty sure they’re right wing.

        And anyway, I made zero mention of left or right and I don’t give a f**k. I’ve seen this type of conversation devolve pretty quickly into suggestions of forced sterilisation from both sides. Or forced removal of babies from mothers, as Paula Bennet has suggested. Which IMO is just as bad.

  22. Stuart Munro 22

    If ACT’s grandiose economic projections had not been absolute and unmitigated piffle, our poor would be comfortably middle class. They ought to be after Bill – whose vast incompetence has not grown the real economy at all. But ACT’s principles go no deeper than sound bites; they never gave a deleted expletive about their country.

  23. Ethica 23

    Michael Laws used to spout this same hatred of poor people and children. Turns out his parenting skills weren’t always wonderful.

    • Pedro 23.1

      What ignorant nonsense. Michael looks after 3 young children without the support of their mother. They all seem to be turning out ok.

  24. AB 24

    To me the objectionable thing is that ACT ideology would submit even the deepest human needs and emotions to ‘market discipline’.
    Can’t afford children due to low wages, insecure work, inadequate housing? Then don’t have them. If you make a ‘poor choice’ and do have them, then the market will pass judgment on you.
    So I don’t see this as eugenicist in the classic sense – it’s not driven by a desire to control the racial make-up of society. Rather it is the outcome of taking a simple idea from the field of economics and elevating it to a universal principle that determines how everything works.
    A civilised community would approach it from the other end, and say that our goal was to create a society where everyone who wanted to start a family had the means and support to do so.

    Problem is though, the idea has just enough truth in it to be appealing – lots of people make exactly these economic calculations when deciding about a 3rd or 4th child and they are disdainful of other people who (on the surface) appear not to. So it’s a hard argument to win.

  25. Neil 25

    Next thing you know they will be wanting to sterilize all those that dont fit thier criteria for having children

    • RRM 25.1

      A lie.

      Act don’t want to sterilise anybody.

      They just want to stop working people from having to pay to subsidise the families of bludgers.

      • Sabine 25.1.1

        yei, i agree, lets cut working for families.

        that will learn those families to only have children that they can afford. Right?

  26. RRM 26

    You’ve got a RIGHT to have kids.

    Just bang them out.

    Somebody else will pay for you.

    • What kind of person believes kids are banged out?

      Oh, I see ^ ^ ^ ^

      • RRM 26.1.1

        Someone who’s got three, delivered two of them at home, and fully meets the financial needs of all of them. That’s who.

        I love how quickly you guys make it personal though.

        • Robert Guyton 26.1.1.1

          Were yours banged out?
          Sounds very industrial.

          • RRM 26.1.1.1.1

            Mrs RRM is a very competent mother. All I had to do was catch them.

            • Robert Guyton 26.1.1.1.1.1

              Well, RRM, should the construction industry take a downturn or you are injured on the job and Mrs RRM have to go out to work in order to support the family, I hope everything stays hunky-dory for you all.

              • RRM

                The construction industry eh?

                OMG you know everything about me!

                I guess it’s off to the Ministry of Love if your lot ever get back into power.

                You scary, scary big brother. :-/

  27. ianmac 27

    Looking at it in another way would be to wonder if a Mum with many kids and low income would be better able to manage the welfare of her kids should she have had fewer kids? Food. Clothing. Shelter. School.

    • jcuknz 27.1

      I would suggest that a Mum with eight or ten kids and eight or ten fathers sharing the job of bringing them up rather than eight or ten Uncles is a pretty good concept.
      But it is the low income of the fathers which makes it unattractive to the ‘fathers’ concerned.
      While it is grossly unfair to blame the women concerned … they have control of the situation and are the ones who need to accept the restrictions while enjoying the benefits of ‘the responsible society’
      After all the RS cannot exist without a responsible populace.

  28. Sabine 28

    @jcuknz
    I would suggest that a Father with eight or ten kids and eight to ten women sharing the job of bringing them up rather than eight or ten aunties is a pretty good concept.
    But it is the low income of the mothers which makes it unattractive to the ‘fathers’ concerned.
    While it is grossly unfair to blame the men concerned … they have control of the situation and are the ones who need to accept the restrictions while enjoying the benefits of ‘the responsible society’
    After all the RS cannot exist without a responsible populace.

    Ways for men to be responsible about their abililty to ‘breed’ children.

    a. don’t be a slut and fuck around – or else you end up all used up and no other godly girl would want to marry you. So sex only coupled with holy matrimony and only for procreation.

    b. don’t be a slut and fuck around making babies – use a condom

    c. don’t be a slut and fuck around making babies- get snipped

    d. don’t be a slut and fuck around making babies – be celibate

    e. don’t be a slut and fuck around making babies- masturbate
    these are the various ways men can not father children.

    • Cinny 28.1

      and if guys want to be a slut and fuck around… be smart about it, go pay for a hooker, they are legal and safer than any one night stand, and the best thing.. guaranteed sex, no strings attached.

      • Sabine 28.1.1

        but they would have to pay for the services and that could pose an issue, so rather fuck around maybe with someone who is equally slutty (cause some people really like sex) or someone under the influence who can then be shamed for having a child to some bloke she does not remember cause ‘pissed/drugged’.

        my point is not about having sex, being a sex positive person, my point is that men make children, they help ‘breed’ the child. The women literally is only the incubator, but without some Sperm from blokes nothing is happening.

        two women having sex, or two blokes having sex is not gonna result in a child. Its the hetero normative sex that leads to children and women don’t do it on their own. they still need the bloke.

    • jcuknz 28.2

      I had second thoughts following my ’27’ Sabine and agree with your points and personally ‘b’ and ‘e’ was my policy but academic now at my age so ‘a’ doesn’t apply.
      One of the sad tales my mother told me was her step father believed that sex was purely for procreation and her mother, widow of a navy man, was used to sex as entertainment with him, resulting in my Mother and older sister.

  29. rhinocrates 29

    I think that we all should remember that this is eugenics thinly disguised, with the implication that the greedy and predominantly white are ubermenschen.

    Pete Beige brought this up recently, suggesting that poor (implicitly brown, since that was the example he used) should be discouraged from having children, while ignoring benefit-scammer Billshit’s own inability to keep his dick in his pants or hands out of the till.

    • jcuknz 29.1

      As to what you call it is your choice but I call it responsibility in one’s life choices both for the parents and the children. eugenics is breeding for a given result in the outcome but while I agree this could be the case here I see it as responsible choice of benefit to parent and child that resources are put into rearing one child …. as I did and happily my son also. But of course knowing no different large families can be happy and meaningful ones when in a responsible society like NZ. But a woman without a steady man in the home cannot do a very good job on her own however much government assistance she gets. Children need both a mother and father working together … ‘uncles’ are a poor substitute.

  30. Sacha 30

    The nasty Act deputy just got her arse handed to her by Kim Hill on RNZ. Worth a listen for a clinical dissection of their beliefs.

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    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    6 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    6 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    6 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    7 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    7 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    7 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    1 week ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    1 week ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 week ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 week ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    1 week ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    1 week ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    2 weeks ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • More homes where they are needed
    More houses for homeless New Zealanders are being opened today in Tauranga by Associate Housing Minister Kris Faafoi. Six 2-bedroom quality units are being opened at 878 Cameron Road by Minister Faafoi and Accessible Properties, a local Community Housing Provider (CHP). Accessible Properties now provides more than 1,700 community housing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    45 mins ago
  • Minister of Finance and Sport and Recreation to visit Japan and Vietnam
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson departs tomorrow for events and meetings in Japan and Vietnam.  While in Japan, he will discuss economic and fiscal issues including meeting with the Minister of Finance, Taro Aso, and Minister of Economic and Fiscal Policy, Yasutoshi Nishimura. He will meet with the Minister of Education, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Dashboard tracks housing progress
    The Government’s Housing Dashboard released today confirms record numbers of state houses are under construction and shows the Government build programme is gaining momentum.  “After nine years of inaction, and a hands-off attitude from the previous government we’re starting to see things move in the right direction for housing,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Ministerial Statement on the International Convention Centre fire
    Mr Speaker, I wish to make a ministerial statement relating to the Auckland fire. The Government is closely monitoring the situation with the fire at the NZ International Convention Centre and is thankful that everyone is now safe. Firefighters are doing an incredible job managing the fire and bringing it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Government invests in Te Reo, environmental data research
    The Government is investing in ambitious research that will digitise Te Reo, grow the low-carbon protein efficient aquaculture industry, help interpret environmental trends, and large data sets says Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods. The four projects range from teaching Siri to speak Te Reo to crunching large environmental ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Government announces next steps as part of a comprehensive plan to fix skills gap
    A new education-to-employment brokerage service to strengthen connections between local employers and schools. Funding for more trades focused ‘speed-dating’ events to connect schools with employers. Promotional campaign to raise profile of vocational education. The Government is taking action to increase the number of young people taking up vocational education and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Corrections Amendment Bill passes third reading
    A Bill to improve prison security and ensure the fair, safe, and humane treatment of people in prison while upholding public safety has passed its third reading. Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says the Corrections Amendment Bill makes a number of changes to ensure the Corrections Act 2004 is fit for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Ngāi Tahu CEO appointed to NZ-China Council
    Minister for Māori Development, Nanaia Mahuta, has selected Arihia Bennett MNZM, Chief Executive Officer of Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, as the Te Puni Kōkiri appointed representative on the New Zealand-China Council. The New Zealand-China Council (the Council) was established in 2012 as a New Zealand led and funded organisation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Southern Response claims move to EQC
    Responsibility for processing the small number of Southern Response claims still to be settled will be transferred to EQC by the end of the year. “As claim numbers reduce, it no longer makes sense for the Crown to have two organisations processing the remaining Canterbury claims,” Grant Robertson says. “Since ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bowel screening starts in Whanganui
    Health Minister David Clark is encouraging Whanganui residents to take up the opportunity for free bowel screening, which can detect cancer early when it’s easier to treat.   Over the next two years 12,000 Whanganui locals, aged 60 to 74 will be invited to participate in the National Bowel Screening ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Pacific Peoples Minister to attend Our Ocean Conference in Norway
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio, heads to Oslo today to represent New Zealand at the sixth Our Ocean Conference, which is being hosted by the Norwegian Government from the 23-24 October. “The Our Ocean Conference mobilises real action on issues like marine plastic pollution and the impacts of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government announces 27 percent increase in Trades Academy places
    Two secondary-school initiatives are being expanded as part of the Government’s plan to see more young New Zealanders take up a trade to help close the skills gap.   This includes the largest single increase in Trades Academy places in recent years. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures Conference: Connection...
    Session 4: Pacific Connectivity – Youth, Media and New Opportunities   Kia ora tatou katoa and Warm Pacific greetings to one and all. Representatives of Tainui, the local people of the land, or manawhenua – the indigenous peoples of this area – have welcomed you this morning in accordance with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago