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Open Mike 13/07/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 13th, 2017 - 82 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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82 comments on “Open Mike 13/07/2017”

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    • Carolyn_nth 2.1
      13 July 2017 at 7:34 am

      This election is shaping up to be the contest between/for the medium sized and smaller parties.

      • chris73 2.1.1
        13 July 2017 at 7:39 am

        Barry has just handed the election to National/NZFirst imho, I’m guessing that if NZ had to have another election then the Greens would be punished severely because no one likes elections all that much anyway so having to have another would really annoy people.

        National and/or Winston can claim a vote for the Greens, and by extension of the MOU Labour, is a vote for instability so a lot of the swing votes are going to swing Winstons way

        Well done Barry Winston is probably toasting you right now

        • James 2.1.1.1
          13 July 2017 at 7:44 am

          You saw the leaders of the greens coming out to say he mis-spoke right?

          No ? Nor did anyone. I say it’s green policy not just Barry.

        • Carolyn_nth 2.1.1.2
          13 July 2017 at 7:44 am

          NZ First with Shane Jones in top role, would never be a good partner in a progressive government. NZF-Labour or NZF-Nats – not much difference.

          I’ll vote accordingly. I’ll leave others to make their choices. The future needs a progressive party/ies that stick to principles, rather than always having an eye on the GAME.

          Edit: and the bigger issue arising from all this is that the contest in this election is between/for the smaller parties. It will not be decided on one action or blog post.

        • marty mars 2.1.1.3
          13 July 2017 at 8:11 am

          WOW all over rover – I went and checked the news sites – ummm nothing WTF – it’s being suppressed already!!!

          then I checked ‘gnat supporters trying to cause trouble’ and there it was – in the funny pages next to the story on “How to tell if your cat was famous in a past life”.

          • Alan 2.1.1.3.1
            13 July 2017 at 8:31 am

            This combined with the co =leaders description of NZF as racist just a few days ago makes L/NZF/G look unlikely

          • Wayne 2.1.1.3.2
            13 July 2017 at 8:41 am

            marty mars

            It has been all over the news this morning.

            James Shaw gave an interview to Guyon Espiner. Shaw ruled out an early election. Therefore the implication is that the Greens would give C & S to a Labour NZ First govt. He did not actually say that, but since he said they want to change the govt, and since the Greens have been emphatic that they will not support National in any circumstance, then that is the only logical conclusion to draw.

            As was evident today from the RNZ interview, since the Greens have ruled out National in all circumstances (even if National was only 1 or 2 short of a majority), then the Greens have dramatically reduced their leverage, and greatly increased that of NZ First.

            Their choice of course, and if I go by the voice of Standardnistas who party vote Green also their choice. But there are consequences of such a choice.

            • garibaldi 2.1.1.3.2.1
              13 July 2017 at 8:49 am

              You Natz just don’t get it Wayne. You are an anathema to the Greens. Your policies are unacceptable. Personally I don’t want leverage by bastardizing ourselves and pretending we could work with you.
              We want a change of Government.

            • The Lone Haranguer 2.1.1.3.2.2
              13 July 2017 at 9:28 am

              James Shaw I have heard of.

              Hes the leader with the portfolio of “make friends with the business community”, but this Barry Coates, who the hell is he?

              I see that Shaw has come out (in keeping with his portfolio of keeping business happy) and said Coates has got it wrong. But Coates has support too.

              Is this just clever marketing by the Greens?

              • Poission …
                13 July 2017 at 10:53 am

                Barry Coates, who the hell is he?

                Hes been in parliament since October,and is a fine example of the IYI species.

                Intellectual Yet Idiot

                From medium.com (taleb)

                … the inner circle of no-skin-in-the-game policy making “clerks” and journalists-insiders, that class of paternalistic semi-intellectual experts with some Ivy league, Oxford-Cambridge, or similar label-driven education who are telling the rest of us 1) what to do, 2) what to eat, 3) how to speak, 4) how to think… and 5) who to vote for.

            • Karen 2.1.1.3.2.3
              13 July 2017 at 10:12 am

              I suggest people actually listen to Shaw themselves.

              http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201850912/will-the-greens-support-a-labour-nz-first-government

              I suspect Coates is now regretting his brain fart. Basically nothing has changed. The Greens would prefer a coalition with Labour and not have to be in a 3 way coalition with NZF for obvious reasons. However they would be able to work with NZF if necessary.

              They would never contemplate a coalition with the Nats (and their eugenics loving partner Act). The righties here still seem to be unable to understand the concept of having values.

            • marty mars 2.1.1.3.2.4
              13 July 2017 at 10:32 am

              Hey Wayne I went and checked a few online news sites and guess what I found? Nothing. Oh dear what a fizzer lol. Keep them coming gnats they’re starting to worry us. Meanwhile billshitter been a bit quiet – obviously been muzzled – until election day I spose.

            • weka 2.1.1.3.2.5
              13 July 2017 at 10:35 am

              As was evident today from the RNZ interview, since the Greens have ruled out National in all circumstances (even if National was only 1 or 2 short of a majority), then the Greens have dramatically reduced their leverage, and greatly increased that of NZ First.

              🙄 The Greens ruled out National several elections ago.

              All that’s happened this week is the Greens have pointed out that if NZers want a progressive government they need to vote Green. Their rationale in this is pretty sound.

              I know this is a strange concept to get one’s head around, but the Greens are speaking to voters here, not people like yourself who think it’s all about power plays and behind doors machinations.

            • weka 2.1.1.3.2.6
              13 July 2017 at 10:49 am

              “It has been all over the news this morning.”

              By ‘all over the news’ you mean a single interview with James Shaw on RNZ?

              • james …
                13 July 2017 at 10:50 am

                No – see link above for another example.

                So far more accurate than saying ” I went and checked the news sites – ummm nothing WTF – it’s being suppressed already!!!”

                • marty mars …
                  13 July 2017 at 11:05 am

                  Mate you might get an Oscar for this dramatic performance – still not feeling it personally…

                • weka …
                  13 July 2017 at 11:14 am

                  All I can see is the Gower fantasy piece, which is basically Gower making shit up, and the RNZ piece, which is a fairly perfunctory interview with Shaw. Hardly all over the news.

                  So far more accurate than saying ” I went and checked the news sites – ummm nothing WTF – it’s being suppressed already!!!”

                  Pretty sure marty was taking the piss.

            • reason 2.1.1.3.2.7
              13 July 2017 at 5:55 pm

              Waynes ‘Standardnistas’ comments are in very bad taste …. considering the history of murders, rapes and other acts committed against the Sandinista s and their society ….. As Cocaine smuggling, funded a Cia war, waged against them …… to destabilize and destroy their society.

              https://libcom.org/files/The secret wars of the CIA-John Stockwell.pdf

              “To destabilize Nicaragua beginning in 1981, we began funding this force of Somoza’s ex-national guardsmen, calling them the contras (the counter
              revolutionaries). We created this force, it did not exist until we allocated money.”

              ” they have systematically been blowing up graineries, saw mills, bridges,
              government offices, schools, health centers. They ambush trucks so the produce can’t get to market. They raid farms and villages. The farmer has to carry a gun while he tries to plow, if he can plow at all.

              “Systematically, the contras have been assassinating religious workers, teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators.”

              “With the children forced to watch they gang rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch
              while they do these things to the children.”

              https://wearechange.org/real-drug-lords-brief-history-cia-involvement-drug-trafficking/

              ” the U.S government under Ronald Reagan, began funding and arming groups of rebels opposed to the Sandanistas known as the Counterrevolutionaries, or Contras. This is all easily obtainable information. Webb’s “Dark Alliance” series, appeared in the Mercury News in 1996. The series examined the origins of the crack cocaine trade in Los Angeles and claimed that members of the anti-communist Contra rebels in Nicaragua had played a major role in creating the trade, using cocaine profits to support their struggle”. ……. ” Webb was following the trial of a Contra leader named Oscar Danilo Blandon Reyes who testified as to the C.I.A’s involvement in cocaine trafficking into Inner city Los Angeles in the 1980’s.”

              “The lead of the first article set out the series’ basic claims: “For the better part of a decade, a San Francisco Bay Area drug ring sold tons of cocaine to the Crips and Bloods street gangs of Los Angeles and funneled millions in drug profits to a Latin American guerrilla army run by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency.” This drug ring “opened the first pipeline between Colombia’s cocaine cartels and the black neighborhoods of Los Angeles” and, as a result, “The cocaine that flooded in helped spark a crack explosion in urban America”

              To be quite honest …. for a person like wayne mapp to be calling us “Standardnistas” ……….. makes me doubt any sincerity or bad feelings he may have expressed for his part in the killing of a three year old girl….

              His banality is showing …….

            • Sumsuch 2.1.1.3.2.8
              13 July 2017 at 11:09 pm

              You don’t expect me to vote Labour do you? What’s the choice then?

          • james 2.1.1.3.3
            13 July 2017 at 10:26 am

            “WOW all over rover – I went and checked the news sites – ummm nothing WTF – it’s being suppressed already!!!”

            None so blind that dont want to see.

            http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/07/green-mp-threatens-new-election-if-labour-goes-with-nz-first.html

            Nice big headline: Green MP threatens new election if Labour goes with NZ First.

            Even a special video made for it.

            • marty mars 2.1.1.3.3.1
              13 July 2017 at 10:33 am

              Fizzer mate. Sad.

              • james …
                13 July 2017 at 10:39 am

                Fizzer?

                But it proved you either a liar or just plain wrong.

                “WOW all over rover – I went and checked the news sites – ummm nothing WTF – it’s being suppressed already!!!”

                Apart from the interviews – news articles and video you mean.

                You need to look at more sites other than echo chambers.

                • weka …
                  13 July 2017 at 10:44 am

                  This coming from someone who at 7.45 this morning said neither of the GP co-leaders had said anything. Your just tripped over your troll shoelaces James.

                  • james …
                    13 July 2017 at 10:51 am

                    In fairness at that point I had not seen anything..

                    • weka …
                      13 July 2017 at 11:15 am

                      So? At the point marty looked he didn’t see anything.

                      Fucksake, is this what it’s going to be like? Really? If you want to troll, at least get some half way decent troll skills.

                • marty mars …
                  13 July 2017 at 10:44 am

                  Sure, try and get your steam up by insulting me. #fizzerloluselessgnats

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    13 July 2017 at 10:52 am

                    When Alfred Ngaro threatened NGO’s who criticised National, was he revealing National Party intent?
                    Let’s ask James.
                    When Barry Coates described an possible outcome for the election, was he describing Green Party thinking?
                    Let’s ask James.

                    • marty mars …
                      13 July 2017 at 11:13 am

                      Yep hebe desperate James.

                      Fizzerwatch update. Still nothing.

                    • weka …
                      13 July 2017 at 11:22 am

                      From what I can tell it goes like this. The Greens made a stand on the weekend about what voters need to do if they want a progressive government (hint, it doesn’t mean voting for Peters). Coates wrote his piece for The Daily Blog, published on Tues. Trotter shit stirs in his piece on Weds. Now Gower is trying to amp it up, and I see Bradbury is egging it on on twitter.

                      This is what it’s going to be like. Forget about truth, that lot are playing dickhead games. Gower can’t help himself, but Trotter and Bradbury should know better. It’s almost like they’d rather lose the election than have the Greens strong. Or maybe like Gower it’s all about the game.

                      None of it serves the country or the democratic process.

                    • james …
                      13 July 2017 at 11:25 am

                      no – and there is a difference:

                      “Mr Coates also said Green MPs had discussed refusing to support a Labour-NZ First combination as a caucus in the past fortnight.”

                      So the Green MPs are discussing it as a possibility. – unless you are saying Coates is a liar.

                      Alfred Ngaro – moron. English came out – said he couldn’t do that, and reviewed all his decisions to make sure that they were not politically motivated.

                      So – One states that the party are discussing it, the other states that its categorically wrong and not happening. Pretty obvious that it wasn’t something being discussed as a party (but feel free to produce anything that proves that wrong if you can).

                    • weka …
                      13 July 2017 at 2:24 pm

                      What I don’t understand is why all these non-GP voters believe that the Greens should do anything after the election. Seriously, why do you believe that the Greens should commit to C and S pre-election when no other party does?

            • weka 2.1.1.3.3.2
              13 July 2017 at 10:36 am

              lol, that’s five minutes of Paddy Gower’s secret squirrel imaginings. Notice how he doesn’t quote Coates even once?

        • weka 2.1.1.4
          13 July 2017 at 10:53 am

          See if you can find where Coates said what Gower is claiming. There’s a reason no-one is quoting Coates.

          • Karen 2.1.1.4.1
            13 July 2017 at 11:02 am

            Actually there is Weka.

            Coates wrote an opinion piece on the Daily Blog last night. Unbelievably stupid. It was picked up by Newshub immediately of course.

            James Shaw has handled it very well I think. He is very impressive in this interview.

            http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/07/no-intention-of-forcing-an-second-election-james-shaw.html

            • weka 2.1.1.4.1.1
              13 July 2017 at 11:12 am

              Yes, I saw the Daily Blog piece, but Coates doesn’t actually say what Gower said he said, which is probably why Gower doesn’t quote him. Which makes me wonder if Gower did his piece solely off TDB and didn’t talk to Coates directly.

              • Karen …
                13 July 2017 at 11:32 am

                If you look at the last sentence it seems someone from Newshub did contact Coates directly:

                http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/no-intention-of-forcing-a-second-election-shaw/ar-BBEjiaU?li=BBqdk7Q&ocid=mailsignout

                It is for the most part a Newshub beatup but just shows how careful MPs have to be. Hopefully Coates has learnt a valuable lesson.

                • weka …
                  13 July 2017 at 11:41 am

                  Yes, I saw that too, but given that Gower didn’t quote Coates at all, or say that bit, I’m assuming that Gower went solely off TDB piece.

                  What Barry Coates said

                  Mr Coates’ original comments come from a post he wrote for left-wing site The Daily Blog.

                  “The memorandum of understanding (MOU) with Labour is the foundation for building the next Government. If we were not part of the coalition, we would not accept a Labour-New Zealand First Government and certainly not a National-New Zealand First Government. Neither will be acceptable to the Greens.”

                  He later clarified to Newshub this “could” result in a second election, if no other combinations of parties could form a Government.

                  Agreed that Coates was incredibly stupid, and I’m surprised because the Greens are normally tighter than this. Does this mean MPs can post blogs without running them past caucus? More likely they don’t have a rule on this because the other MPs already know not to do that shit. Coates isn’t the only Green MP to post on TDB though.

                  I thought Shaw did a good job on RNZ. Hopefully it will blow over and we’ll get back to some politics without the boys shitstirring.

            • Reality 2.1.1.4.1.2
              13 July 2017 at 11:31 am

              James Shaw was excellent in that interview. The interviewer was good also. He was direct but did not froth at the mouth like Paddy Gower and others. It gave James Shaw a chance to give his perspective without being interrupted constantly.

              • weka …
                13 July 2017 at 11:43 am

                I thought it was good too. Espiner asked the pertinent questions without being a dick about it, and Shaw got to be clear in what he was saying.

    • Psycho Milt 2.2
      13 July 2017 at 9:04 am

      So, if the Greens won’t work with NZ First they should be punished, but if NZ First won’t work with the Greens that’s sound political judgement? There’s something about the Green Party that makes right-wingers lose any semblance of rationality.

      Also: seriously, a Labour-NZ First government? Where the fuck is that coming from? People who can’t read or do maths?

      • James 2.2.1
        13 July 2017 at 9:09 am

        “but if NZ First won’t work with the Greens that’s sound political judgement?”

        I wouldn’t call that sound political judgement- but I would call it a nail in the coffin of a labour – greens – nzf government.

        And looking at the numbers – it’s looking like 3 more years of national but this time with nzf – as well as the other parties.

        That will give them a large majority.

        Assuming (a big assumption) that they can make it work well and partner well with NZF (and Shane jones will help this a lot) 2020 and possibly 2023 are looking good.

        Edit : looking good if you support national – not so much labour.

        • Psycho Milt 2.2.1.1
          13 July 2017 at 9:30 am

          I’m not sure you could count that as “good.” A Lab/Green/NZF govt would be a horrendous clusterfuck because Winston Peters. Likewise, a Nat/ACT/MP/United/NZF govt would be a horrendous clusterfuck because Winston Peters. If those turn out to be the choices this election, I’d rather National suffered the horrendous clusterfuck and Labour/Greens set their sights on 2020.

          • Wayne 2.2.1.1.1
            13 July 2017 at 9:45 am

            If National and its current support parties are say more than 3 short of a majority I would expect a Labour/NZF/Green govt, though possibly with Greens only in a C & S role.

            If National and support parties are extremely close to a majority, just 1 or 2 short, Winston will find it hard not to let them form a govt, though with NZF in the prime support role. In such a case the govt would have a solid majority, not that necessarily means much.

            In constitutional terms a 1 seat majority is as good as a 10 seat majority. At least if the 1 seat majority is tidy and not a constant fractious debate on every issue. I have been there (1996 to 1999) and it is a mess.

            • Psycho Milt 2.2.1.1.1.1
              13 July 2017 at 9:53 am

              I guess it will be an integrity test. Winston will go with whoever offers the choicest “baubles of office,” so if the right-bloc/left-bloc split is close, there will be plenty of temptation to make Winston some tasty offers. In that sense, forming a govt with Winston is kind of like cocaine – very tempting, but won’t work out well for you in the long run. I’m hoping Little, Shaw and Turei have the integrity to resist that temptation – I guess we’ll find out in September whether they do or not.

              • The Lone Haranguer …
                13 July 2017 at 11:00 am

                Both the Nats and Labour are going to be asked to pay up large for Winston. Hes done it before, and when Helens lot didnt offer enough, then Bolger got the treasury benches.

                And Winston got the sack.

                Sure it was a long time ago, but since then Winston has worked far better with Labour than with the Nats.

                On present polling, I see Winston as PM of a Labour led minority government with support from the Greens, (and Dunne gone from Parliament)

                Only Winston could pull that sort of deal off

                • McFlock …
                  13 July 2017 at 12:30 pm

                  It wasn’t just that they didn’t offer enough, the Alliance refused to commit to confidence and supply, apparently. I don’t know whether that was because they wanted to remain separate from Labour (lots of fresh wounds) or simply because they felt locked out of being in a threeway coalition (basically the potential Green situation that the tories are wanking over – being asked to support a government that won’t give them anything in return)

              • weka …
                13 July 2017 at 11:44 am

                “I’m hoping Little, Shaw and Turei have the integrity to resist that temptation”

                Me too. It’s going to be interesting, because in the case of Shaw and Turei, it has to come back to the members.

                • alwyn …
                  13 July 2017 at 12:21 pm

                  “it has to come back to the members”
                  That doesn’t seem to be the interpretation that Shaw is putting on the question of alliances.

                  In the Herald article he says
                  “Greens co-leader James Shaw said this morning that Coates’ comments were “absolutely not” the party’s position. Discussions about possible coalition deals were “the reserve of the leadership”, he said.”
                  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11889937

                  He seems to be suggesting that it is the role of himself and Turei rather than the function of party members as a whole.

                  • weka …
                    13 July 2017 at 12:27 pm

                    You are wrong. Shaw was referring to the caucus and that during the election campaign the only MPs who can make public statements about coalition deals are the co-leaders (have a listen to the RNZ piece).

                    As for post-election deals, there’s a process that involves the caucus, exec, and members, and there is a special negotiations team and one that liases with the rest of the party (that’s from memory)

                  • greywarshark …
                    13 July 2017 at 12:57 pm

                    alwyn
                    You belong with the type of people regularly heard to be calling for ‘leadership’. James Shaw has demonstrated it, but you are saying that he should leave everything important to the party members as a whole’.

                    marty mars at 8.11
                    Haha. Good,

                    Poission 11.53
                    That was a good summary of a type I’ve noticed.
                    Thanks for headsup.

                    • alwyn …
                      13 July 2017 at 1:42 pm

                      ” but you are saying that he should leave everything important to the party members as a whole”.
                      No, I said nothing of the sort. I gave no opinion at all on who should make the decisions on such things.
                      I merely suggested that what Shaw was quoted as saying didn’t seem to tie up with what Weka had said.
                      She assures us that the comments are not in conflict as one applies to statements made before the election and one to what they might do after the election when all the votes have been cast. That wasn’t at all clear from what the paper said and I am pleased that she has made it clear that different rules apply at the different dates.
                      I hope they don’t take too long over the matter. Remember how it took about 6 weeks to discover who the Government was going to be in 1996? God forbid it takes that long again.

            • Stuart Munro 2.2.1.1.1.2
              13 July 2017 at 11:36 am

              You don’t need to tell us it’s a mess Wayne – we’ve had to live under their squalid sustained administrative failure. The Gnats are rubbish on their best day.

            • Incognito 2.2.1.1.1.3
              13 July 2017 at 10:14 pm

              In constitutional terms a 1 seat majority is as good as a 10 seat majority. At least if the 1 seat majority is tidy and not a constant fractious debate on every issue. I have been there (1996 to 1999) and it is a mess.

              A revealing comment!

              A 1-seat majority may be all that’s need to push through bills but it does not make for sound democracy if it’s all you care about.

              Obviously, in 1996 NZ politicians were still stuck in FPP mode and arguable some still are this day.

              Indeed, with such a single-minded attitude each and every debate is likely to turn into a fractious one – it’s not the 1-seat majority but the mind-set that is the underlying issue.

              In fact, National still displays this arrogant simplistic mind-set that winning is everything and justifies the means. In contrast, other smaller parties have adapted more to MMP and are more willing and able to build bridges, compromise, aim for consensus and generally take a broader view than just a 1-seat majority in the House.

              In short, this is why we urgently need a change of government, because this kind or narrow-minded political ‘pragmatism’ is bad for (NZ) democracy and our society.

              For the many, not just for the one.

  4. dv 4
    13 July 2017 at 8:17 am

    John Clark on NZ
    “During the early 1980s however, the New Zealand economy was put in the hands of finance ministers due to a filing error, and authorities are still looking for the black box. A social democracy with only one previous owner was asset-stripped and replaced by a series of franchises. Even rugby sides stopped being called Canterbury, Wellington, Otago and Auckland and were instead given the names of animals, colours and weather conditions.” (Source: from the late, great John Clarke’s A Guide To New Zealand)

    • JanM 4.1
      13 July 2017 at 9:52 am

      Oh, if only we’d been able to keep him here we might not be in this mess 🙁

      • adam 4.1.1
        13 July 2017 at 12:18 pm

        We would have gone down the rabbit hole.

        Most people are delusional about their economic status. I had a person the other day tell me they we middle class, renting and ten’s of thousands of dollars in debt – but middle class. Yeah right.

        So the wool is firmly in place, as such the elites don’t fear working people. Until we get to a time that they do – nothing will change. Some tinkering maybe from the wets – but nothing will change.

        • Sabine 4.1.1.1
          13 July 2017 at 3:55 pm

          most middle class people are one illness and one missed wage payment away from bankruptcy.
          but as long as they can ‘service ‘ their debts they are middle class.

  5. greywarshark 5
    13 July 2017 at 11:54 am

    How is electric car manufacturing going in USA?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11887216
    7 July 2017
    On Monday, [Tesla CEO Elon] Musk sent out tweet saying that the Palo Alto, California, company anticipates production of 20,000 Model 3 cars per month in December, which was below previous estimates. Tesla also said Monday that it delivered about 22,000 vehicles in the second quarter, bringing first-half deliveries to about 47,100. That’s at the low end of the company’s projections earlier this year of between 47,000 and 50,000 deliveries.

    Then on Wednesday, the dynamics of the electric car market shifted a bit when Volvo announced that by 2019, it would be producing only electric and hybrid vehicles, the first traditional automaker to make that leap.

    Volvo, which is based in Sweden but owned by Chinese firm Geely, will launch five fully electric cars between 2019 and 2021. Three of them will be Volvo models and two will be electrified cars from Polestar, Volvo Cars’ performance car arm. It also plans to offer a range of hybrids as options, expecting to sell 1 million electrified cars by 2025.

  6. james 6
    13 July 2017 at 1:18 pm

    Robert – from the other thread (to save the Mods moving it). [r0b: Very considerate!]

    Yurt —

    Did you build yours from scratch or did you use a ‘kit’ so to speak? like http://www.yurts.com/ ?

  7. greywarshark 7
    13 July 2017 at 1:34 pm

    The regions can’t have – a decent transport avenue with rail because it won’t pay (Gisborne.) Fed Farmers want trucks, someone wants a road built on the railway tracks. Probably everyone is ducking for cover while the Gnats try to crank up the Special Economic Zones so government can say to the unpopular regions, ‘find a ….(foreign) investor and sell your soul to him/them’.

    (Sort of like the story of Rumplestitskin – someone in fix, R says promise me your brightest and best and I’ll get you out of the poo. They managed to sort R out and send him off, but hey that can only happen in fairy tales.)

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201850920/questions-over-iwirail-s-economics
    transport politics
    8:17 am today
    Questions over IwiRail’s economics
    From Morning Report, 8:17 am today
    Listen duration 2′ :45″
    The Maori Party’s plan to resurrect rail in the regions – dubbed IwiRail – would bring back moth-balled lines, beginning with the Napier-Gisborne route and look into setting up new tracks. It wants the Government to put up an initial $350 million, with iwi and local investors also contributing. But there are questions about whether the routes will be profitable, and whether the numbers add up.

    And what about poor Manawatu – the Gorge is shifting, and its enough to make you throw up if you live round there.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/manawatu-guardian/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503567&objectid=11887406
    Watch NZH Local Focus: Manawatu Gorge may never reopen
    7 Jul, 2017 2:09pm
    NZ Herald
    It’s been shut 22 times in the last five years, that’s a total of 338 days. Most recently it closed in April after a massive slip took out the road. Now, the Manawatu Gorge may never reopen.

    Good map of Gorge and shows alternative Saddle Road.
    https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap?v=2&ll=-40.31796475,175.7980936&z=14&pin=1&lbl=Manawatu+Gorge

    • gsays 7.1
      13 July 2017 at 11:14 pm

      Re the gorge, IF we had true leadership, (not beholden to the trucking lobby), they could say no trucks to go over the saddle or the pahiatua track.
      Perfectly good rail corridor through the ranges. Load up in woodvegas, ashhurst or palmy, then offload at other end.
      Where there is a will there is a way.

      I do feel for folks in the tararua, 6,000 vehicle movements now not happening like they used to, and citizens of ashhurst now having 6,000 largely unwanted vehicles going through the residential area.

  8. Andre 8
    13 July 2017 at 4:40 pm

    Interesting food and biofuel project using seawater in Abu Dhabi. Hope it all works out.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/12/middleeast/iseas-abu-dhabi-aviation-biofuel/index.html

  9. Penny Bright 9
    13 July 2017 at 7:01 pm

    UPDATE FROM HER WARSHIP IN THE HAGUE – WORLD JUSTICE FORUM Thursday 13 July 2017 6.24am

    Unfinished reporting from Tuesday 11 July 2017….

    – when I dropped my political ‘bombshell’ about NZ’s corruption REALITY being that
    in my opinion, as a proven anti- corruption ‘whistle-blower’ – New Zealand was a ‘corrupt, polluted tax haven – a banana republic without the bananas’.

    I also stated that the Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’ (which NZ topped 10 times (sometimes 1st equal) without having even ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption – should be screwed up and thrown into the rubbish bin of history.

    That there were IMO, objective, significant milestones / yardsticks for quantifying corruption REALITY, rather than relying (largely) upon the subjective opinions of anonymous businesspeople for PERCEPTION of corruption (which in my view is a meaningless ‘measure’).

    I pointed out how in 2010 how I had attended the Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference in Bangkok.

    Where we were told that the global procurement market was $14 TRILLION and the amount estimated to be lost in bribery and corruption was $2.5 TRILLION!

    That I had a HUGE ‘lightbulb’ moment!

    Wouldn’t $2.5 TRILLION
    $2.5 THOUSAND BILLION
    $2,500,000,000,000 – help to feed, clothe, water and shelter a few poor people?

    That another ‘lightbulb’ moment – was that Transparency International were not looking at the underpinning private procurement MODEL, but the private procurement PROCESS.

    That as soon as you got into the private procurement (contracting out) of public services, formerly provided ‘in house’ by staff directly employed under the ‘public service’ model, you got into CONTRACT MANAGEMENT.

    Government or Council staff were regarded as ‘too dumb’ to do contract management – so a ‘bureaucrat'(s) would then hire CONSULTANT(S) to ‘project manage’ the WORKS CONTRACTOR(S), who would then usually SUB-CONTRACT- so by the time you got down to those in the boots and overalls getting their hands dirty and actually doing something productive – you might have up to 4 layers of pinstripe suits – clipping the ticket while effectively doing nothing.

    How on EARTH is that a more ‘cost-effective’ use of public money?

    In 2010, at that Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference, I stood on my hind legs and asked a (high-faluting) panel – where was the EVIDENCE that the private procurement of public services that used to be provided at central and local government level, was more ‘cost-effective’ than former ‘in-house’ service provision?

    (It was like I had slapped the face of the person who was chairing the panel.
    He literally did a ‘double-take’ and mumbled that there was evidence – but none was ever provided.)

    My point to this 2017 World Justice Forum group – was that in my opinion, it was time to look at the whole underpinning private procurement MODEL for public services.

    ( IMO – it is the privatisation -private procurement – of public services which is the major source of GRAND corruption.

    I am one of the few people in the world actually saying this- that the root cause of most GRAND corruption- is PRIVATISATION.

    How is it decided who GETS the contracts?

    Remember – back in 2010 – the global amount estimated to be paid in bribery and corruption was $2.5 TRILLION!

    __________________________

    This is a BIG deal folks.

    The whole Neo-liberal myth and mantra ‘public is bad – private is good’ upon which this massive privatisation of public services, locally, nationally and internationally was based – was NOT ‘evidence based’.

    The BIG business globalists – just MADE IT UP!

    More later …

    Her Warship – guns loaded and blazing ‘inside the tent!’
    (As it were …. 🙂

    Penny Bright

    #StopCorruption
    #OpenTheBooks
    #CutOutTheContractors
    #ImplementAndEnforceThePublicRecordsAct
    #WJForum

    • Cinny 9.1
      13 July 2017 at 7:25 pm

      Penny, Her War Ship, with lighting, in the Hague 😀

      You are all shades of light bulb awesomeness.
      I truly admire your intellect and dedication.

      Thank you for doing what you do and for sharing.

  10. greywarshark 10
    13 July 2017 at 8:46 pm

    Does this tender business make sense? Expecting a bus firm to invest in providing good vehicles and provide good service and change over to better fuels, and then be dropped like a hot potato some years on. Waste of capital, and more expensive in the long run I would think. Another example of NZ demanding champagne while earning a beer income?

    In Wellington a new operator says it will provide over 200 buses and the media is asking where they are going to be parked? It sounds as if all the dots haven’t been joined.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/92407885/concern-over-where-tranzits-228-new-wellington-buses-will-be-kept

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