National offers to help with housing crisis

Written By: - Date published: 11:50 am, June 28th, 2019 - 105 comments
Categories: housing, Judith Collins, making shit up, national, poverty, privatisation, same old national, spin, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

God bless their cotton pickin socks.  On behalf of the National Party Judith Collins has offered to help Labour deal with the housing crisis, the one that National is responsible for.

From Jo Moir at Radio New Zealand this morning:

National says Phil Twyford’s demotion is an admission KiwiBuild could never work, and argues the government needs the opposition’s expertise on housing.

Expertise?  They have shown to be very adept at selling off social housing, creating the leaky home disaster, and driving up house prices to unsustainable levels and creating the crisis that we have.

And many of them are landlords.  But I don’t think this is what she is referring to.

Judith is proposing that there should be a political consensus on housing:

… Collins said KiwiBuild was never going to work and Ms Ardern’s reshuffle was simply an acknowledgement of that.

But she has extended an olive branch, saying it was time Labour and National got on the same page over housing.

“So what they should do is talk to us about urban development, [Resource Management Act] reform and how to get stuff done.

“And I think a whole lot of people in New Zealand would like Labour and National to be sitting down talking … the same language so we don’t constantly keep changing the way in which we operate,” she said.

 

And in a moment of weakness she admitted that she has been recently been playing political games 

Ms Collins told Morning Report she had some sympathy for Mr Twyford.

“I’ve dealt with a lot of property developments over the years, I know how hard it is… it’s hard for me to see this happening, and thinking I can just play games with this which is easy for me to do, but actually it does need to get sorted out.”

Although nice Judith could not help herself and then contradicted a claim by Simon Bridges that as a show of how well they get on he and she had dinner a couple of nights beforehand.  

I hope that the media push back on Collins’s claims.  Because the housing crisis that we have is the result of years of inept political leadership by the last Government.  And it will not be solved overnight.

105 comments on “National offers to help with housing crisis ”

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  1. mosa 1
    28 June 2019 at 12:03 pm

    " I hope that the media push back on Collins’s claims. Because the housing crisis that we have is the result of years of inept political leadership by the last Government. And it will not be solved overnight "

    Mickey haven't you noticed the media is busy promoting Collins in all its coverage and the National party's leader does not even feature.

    As for housing Labour and National already a share consensus that the " market " is the solution in addressing the problem that is why the kiwi build policy is an abject failure.

    Until neo liberalisim is removed from the current mindset we will continue trying to cure the patient with the same old drugs and changing your G.P from blue to red will still mean the same failed diagnosis.

    • Michelle Gray 1.1
      28 June 2019 at 2:40 pm

      Dont worry Mosa they can promote her as much as they like it wont make any difference

      I am sure people can see through her sudden change of personality

    • mosa 1.2
      28 June 2019 at 5:28 pm

      Well Mickey ????

  2. bwaghorn 2
    28 June 2019 at 12:04 pm

    National didnt fix the crisis because of ineptness!!

    They didnt fix it because the shyster in charge felt that as long as 45 % of kiwis where riding the property ponzi scheme the nats would keep winning.

    • AB 2.1
      28 June 2019 at 1:15 pm

      Agreed. National created (or at least rode) the housing bubble to enrich themselves and their supporters. If 'fixing' it does not involve enriching themselves a second time all over again, they won't do it. In fact they'll fight it tooth and nail.

      What we have is a society that has completely normalised enriching oneself to the detriment of others – and housing is simply where it plays out most egregiously.

      • Michelle Gray 2.1.1
        28 June 2019 at 2:46 pm

        we now have a private building market that isn't interested in building cheaper houses for the poor and working peoples they are building 500k- 800k homes and we know who they are serving not the average kiwi but they are using our housing NZ state home land and its plain wrong and its not fair and it is further reducing land for those that land was intended if they don't build houses for the poor and our Maori people are over represented in this group give our land back then

      • mosa 2.1.2
        28 June 2019 at 5:27 pm

        " enriching oneself to the detriment of others "

        A B that is capitalism without checks and balances.

        Neo liberalisim in all its glory.

        • MickeyBoyle 2.1.2.1
          28 June 2019 at 9:17 pm

          It's okay, this current government have stated many times that neoliberalism is not working and they will change it for a more kind, caring society. So I'm sure they will start that one of these days…Who introduced us to neoliberalism by the way?…

    • A 2.2
      28 June 2019 at 2:31 pm

      Their "fix" was to ignore the feedback they were getting telling them we had a crisis.

      Say what you will about Twyford but HE LISTENED.

      • mosa 2.2.1
        28 June 2019 at 5:57 pm

        SELECTIVE HEARING A

        • patricia bremner 2.2.1.1
          28 June 2019 at 9:31 pm

          Mosa, you appear to think housing the homeless in record numbers, building three + times more state houses,(1600) setting a warm homes programme in place, devising a tax to to stop property flipping, increasing the numbers of first home owners or second chancers choices with Kiwi build, and working on urban housing was "Doing Nothing" then the last Goverment's efforts in building 500 state houses, charging homeless for motel stays , and kicking people out for the smallest trace of drugs was better???? Lol Lol.

          • mosa 2.2.1.1.1
            29 June 2019 at 11:26 am

            Patricia you are right there have been improvements to what the situation was two years ago and it is a relief to see some action but the whole housing situation is still failing and if the right approach had begun two years ago there would be no need for a reset or the housing minister moving sideways.

            When i wrote doing nothing i meant changing the mindset that the market will cure the problem after causing it in the first place.

            This is a market failure and Bryan Bruce has put up a blog on how the government could be approaching this better with ideas on grappling with the mess created over the last thirty years.

            Before you LOL take the time to read the blog.

            https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/06/29/guest-blog-bryan-bruce-housing-101/

            • Molly 2.2.1.1.1.1
              29 June 2019 at 12:08 pm

              Bryan Bruce has set out – very concisely – the issues around housing. And identifies the problems behind the current political discussions and approaches – from both sides of the political spectrum.

              IMO, Kiwibuild was solving a self-defined problem within the system that created it, and not actually providing a solution to the housing issue as a whole. In that respect, it was never going to make a difference.

            • patricia bremner1000 2.2.1.1.1.2
              29 June 2019 at 5:37 pm

              Mosa all of those points are relevant. I was laughing at Judith Collins offer to "Show us how" really, rather than your points. (My bad)

              A Coalition is agreements and cooperation. Not an easy road, but the changes to the urban framework may help.

              I would like more done, and it may happen now as Megan Wood will stick up for her portfolio when it comes to funding.

              Given the straight jacket of 3 sets of ideas being melded into a programme, I am delighted with the progress but would like to see better definition of social housing. Kris Fafoi will no doubt do well in this area. Cheers.

      • Chris T 2.2.2
        28 June 2019 at 7:18 pm

        They weren't listening very well when every man and his dog was telling them Kiwibuild wouldn't work from the moment they announced it years ago

    • Rae 2.3
      29 June 2019 at 9:35 pm

      They couldn't fix it, on account of they were too busy creating it.

  3. indiana 3
    28 June 2019 at 12:08 pm

    I agree that we have a housing problem, crisis, not so much. To have a crisis, you really need to be in a situation like LA.

    https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-2020-homelessness-presidential-campaign-20190610-story.html

  4. CHCoff 4
    28 June 2019 at 12:12 pm

    Wasn't the National Party housing crisis having to put up with a cyclist biking past the driveway?

    • Wensleydale 4.1
      29 June 2019 at 2:16 pm

      Yes, along with inconvenient trees blocking our coastal views (it's alright, Giles will poison them over the weekend), slightly less affluent people living in the same street (quelle horreur!), and the police helicopter flying over our house in order to get to the scene of a crime.

      It's scandalous what the average National voter has to put up with in this day and age.

  5. fender 5
    28 June 2019 at 12:23 pm

    Oh how kind, like the sexual abuser offering counselling to their victims.

  6. Enough is Enough 6
    28 June 2019 at 12:25 pm

    My parents bought the State House they lived in for 30 years in Lower Hutt.

    Selling State Houses is not bad thing to do – so long as the funds are reinvested into new development.

    • Dukeofurl 6.1
      28 June 2019 at 12:36 pm

      Selling to long term tenants wasnt what they were doing.

      They were selling to property investors after they pulled them down , or as a bulk sale to Social Housing providers, (which are more of arms length Housing NZ), again to make it easier to sell them to developers

      • Enough is Enough 6.1.1
        28 June 2019 at 1:38 pm

        And are there more houses there or less?

        • Dukeofurl 6.1.1.1
          28 June 2019 at 2:54 pm

          Less state houses

          • Enough is Enough 6.1.1.1.1
            28 June 2019 at 3:20 pm

            But more houses – which is what we are trying to achieve?

            So long as those in need of housing assistance, I don't give a shit who owns them

            • Molly 6.1.1.1.1.1
              29 June 2019 at 12:14 pm

              But more houses – which is what we are trying to achieve?

              To make a notable difference, it is about "access to housing" rather than number of builds. If access to housing that is affordable, healthy and secure is unachieveable for a large proportion of NZers, then we continue to have a problem.

              Location of houses is also a problem. If well connected communities with access to transport and services are relocated as state housing is removed, and the land cleared for redevelopment, the new tenants or owners are often of a higher economic strata than those that have been relocated.

              Those long standing state house communities have support systems and community ties dismantled, and can be rehoused in places where extra costs are required in terms of transport and services.

              The context is wider than nominal figures for houses.

            • Dukeofurl 6.1.1.1.1.2
              29 June 2019 at 3:21 pm

              Every year there are 'more ' houses.

              Migration ramped up under national, housing ramping up was much slower. State houses virtually stopped being built.

              Housing isnt like weetbix- where every one gets the same product.

              Low cost housing , even at todays inflated values are something like 5% of new builds.

              Even you would know that the need for the lower cost house is much much greater than 5%.

              Previously you may have had say 30% of the low cost homes being provided by State ( I dont know the numbers, it may be more or less)

              That practically disappeared for a period, and the private supply fall away too.

              End result , sky high rents for modest housing, overcrowding, living on streets.

              Its does matter who builds certain segments of housing market, you are dismiisive as you are probabbly only thinking about the top 20%

    • Michelle Gray 6.2
      28 June 2019 at 2:57 pm

      Yes many people brought their state homes national sold them to them, aren't they lucky, did they get a nice home in central lower hutt that is now worth 500k plus we got put in the ugly low valued land areas in places like naenae where it is damp we got offered homes to rent in cannon creek but we lived in lower hutt and our whanau did to so why would we move to Porirua. If you were Maori it was hard to get a decent state house for many years to rent cause the racism was so bad that is how many pakeha got the best state homes look around see who lives where. I was born here and lived here all my life I can see and experienced what happened so don't talk about state houses for life bullshit that is just plain rubbish to make people angry that others are getting something they didn't.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7
    28 June 2019 at 12:36 pm

    Now now lets not rush to judgement, she knows what shes talking about and geniunely wants to help 🙂

    • Dukeofurl 7.1
      28 June 2019 at 12:42 pm

      is that the same Judith who 18 months ago was lobbying Twyford to get her developer mates to build Kiwibuild ?

      national and its developer mates have taken over the media narrative so much that now black is white and night is day.

      Build more kiwibuild homes and the headlines scream – Kiwibuild homes not sold.

      hello ….thats how every development works:

      plan , consent, SELL, Build….Move in.

    • michelle 7.2
      28 June 2019 at 12:55 pm

      shes not genuine

      • Wensleydale 7.2.1
        29 June 2019 at 2:19 pm

        Don't mind, Pucky. He aspires to be Judith's tea boy.

        "I said two sugars, Pucky, you oblivious wretch! Two! Honestly, if you were any more incompetent you'd be Phil Twyford!"

        These are the things Pucky dreams about.

  8. michelle 8
    28 June 2019 at 12:45 pm

    So she(gollins)has sympathy for Twyford after calling for his resignation what about all the NZers her national party policies shafted does she have any sympathy for them i wouldn't trust that old bag she is trying to act like she really cares shes a wolf in sheeps clothing

  9. AB 9
    28 June 2019 at 12:52 pm

    It will be the 453rd reprise of the chorus of "Let's gut the RMA" a patriotic, marching song frequently delivered with gusto in boardrooms, restaurants and golf clubs round the country.

  10. michelle 10
    28 June 2019 at 12:53 pm

    our state homes are not for investors they are for poor and low income families, homeless ,mentally ill ,elderly, prisoners, single parents , pensioners, disabled. I see Ashley church wants the houses for those they were not intended for. And the fact houses aren't selling shows the market failed cause our new builds were and have been sold to foreign investors. One state house section in the Hutt Valley has no NZers in them the buyers were all Chinese foreigners how do i know the plumbers and builders on site told me.

  11. Psycho Milt 11
    28 June 2019 at 1:20 pm

    Well, National did prove to have mad skills at exacerbating the housing crisis when they were in power, but that's not really a recommendation for letting them help with mitigating it.

    In any case, we already know what their idea of "help" is: gut the Resource Management Act and encourage sprawl, car travel and the off-loading of infrastructure costs from developers onto taxpayers. That kind of "help" the country can do without.

    • The Chairman 11.1
      28 June 2019 at 2:35 pm

      In any case, we already know what their idea of "help" is: gut the Resource Management Act and encourage sprawl, car travel and the off-loading of infrastructure costs from developers onto taxpayers. That kind of "help" the country can do without.

      Indeed.

      • patricia bremner1000+ 11.1.1
        28 June 2019 at 9:41 pm

        1000+ @ 11 ana 11.1 Psycho Milt and The Chairman… Well put!!

  12. Jimmy 12
    28 June 2019 at 1:26 pm

    Didn't house prices increase just as much under the Clark government?

    • Dukeofurl 12.1
      28 June 2019 at 2:54 pm

      No .

      Plus the numbers of new houses built way exceeded those under national

    • Psycho Milt 12.2
      28 June 2019 at 3:47 pm

      Didn't house prices increase just as much under the Clark government?

      They did. In fact, they increased so much that in 2008 John Key was calling it a crisis. It was pretty clear something needed doing about it, and the incoming National government took a two-pronged approach:

      1. Deny there was a crisis.

      2. Encourage investment in property, especially by cashed-up foreigners.

      Of the two governments, Key's one bears vastly more responsibility for the resulting clusterfuck than Clark's.

      • Rapunzel 12.2.1
        28 June 2019 at 4:59 pm

        They is evidence of that but whether it applies to apple or oranges is important – during the Clark era the issue of compliance and leaky homes had been revelaed and had to be adressed with better compliance and also, from the late '90s through those years the size on homes increased, in most instances by about a third. Are you saying a more compliant home that met standards that had been sidelined and of a larger size should cost the same as previously? That is a big contrast to allowing a flood of immigration that pushed the price of the average home up another 50% for no reason other than demand?

        Both my children purchased their first family homes in 2006-2007 and the $350k and $550k range seemed, yes, like a huge commitment but when they sold it was for double that amount so they could buy in that market. Anyone starting from scratch after the GFC was stuft.

      • aj 12.2.2
        28 June 2019 at 6:34 pm

        Didn't house prices increase just as much under the Clark government?

        They did

        Not in dollar terms. If you research it I think you will find the % increase may have been slightly greater. I did this a few years ago but I can't find my results.

        For example, an increase of 25% from $400k is less in dollar terms than an increase of 20% from $700k

        • Herodotus 12.2.2.1
          28 June 2019 at 7:10 pm

          For example, an increase of 25% from $400k is less in dollar terms than an increase of 20% from $700k

          Great for those trying to get into the market with comments by those living in theory land

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSxeoSXiK9U

          • aj 12.2.2.1.1
            28 June 2019 at 7:18 pm

            Idiot. Not theory, simple maths.

            • aj 12.2.2.1.1.1
              28 June 2019 at 7:46 pm

              Auckland house prices over four years:

              Average May 2013 $645,583

              Average May 2017 $1,072,917

              Increase of 66.2% in dollar terms $427,333

              Source

              I haven't got the time on a Friday night to search for the increase over Labour's term but it will NOT have matched that increase.

              • Herodotus …
                28 June 2019 at 8:20 pm

                "However, the average house price in Auckland has dropped slightly by 1.3 percent from the same time last year, with May 2018 seeing a price of $852,000, down from $862,800 in May 2017. "

                https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/06/nz-house-prices-growing-while-auckland-has-found-middle-ground-report.html

                https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/real-estate/median-house-price-growth

                We could throw many statistics at each other, the problem was that 90's and earlier a family could own and live on a single income (police, teacher fire dept, politician etc), from 2000's that was only available to a diminishing few (politician etc)

                • aj …
                  28 June 2019 at 8:50 pm

                  No. I am responding to your original post:

                  "Really where is the basis for your "No" 2003-2007 period was when house prices boomed. Love to see what data you pull out to support your dismissive answer. Perhaps it is that in truth you don't believe your answer.Why cannot many Labour supporters see the damage that was done to housing during Helen's years ??"

                  You claimed that looking at dollar increases rather than percentage increases was:

                  "Great for those trying to get into the market with comments by those living in theory land"

                  Drivel.

                  I've provided stats that show that during a four year period of the previous National government, prices rose over 66%, in Auckland, a dollar value increase $427,333.

                  Labour may have been in power when the bonfire started but National didn't try to put it out, looks like they were happy to throw petrol on it.

  13. Peter 13
    28 June 2019 at 1:29 pm

    Collins did not have a moment of weakness. She had a moment of deliberate posturing.

    If she had been serious of course she would have proudly announced that she was going to share their "comprehensive housing plan." You'd have to be as cretinous as she thinks we are to accept the parody she's acting out.

  14. woodart 14
    28 June 2019 at 2:37 pm

    if judith was serious about helping with the housing crisis(what crisis? natz 5 yrs ago)she would be telling her husbands family to go home(without kauri logs)

    • alwyn 14.1
      28 June 2019 at 5:23 pm

      So. You are obviously a great fan of the Australian way where you deport people who are the wrong race or Nationality are you? At least the Australians, most of the time, limit deportation to those convicted of criminal offences.

      Just where would you deport he husband's family to anyway?

      • woodart 14.1.1
        28 June 2019 at 8:18 pm

        I didnt mention deporting, thats obviously more your idea, maybe thats what YOU prefer . maybe you should read my post again……stop trying to add one and one to get eleven….stick to simple equations….

        • alwyn 14.1.1.1
          28 June 2019 at 8:40 pm

          "she would be telling her husbands family to go home".

          When I read something like that I tend to assume that the person who wrote it really doesn't like Chinese, or Pacific Islanders or anyone else who isn't just like them.

          And you don't even seem to see the bigotry you are displaying. Amazing.

  15. Drowsy M. Kram 15
    28 June 2019 at 5:03 pm

    National party MPs certainly seem to be the 'go-to-guys' when it comes to dealing with crises. Get them into government & crises just melt away. Housing, health, education, waterways, global warming, etc. – no worries, it's BAU public asset-stripping, and tax relief/havens for the haves and 'have mores'.

    The greatest ‘crisis’ NZ faced up to under the last nine years of a National-led 'government' was our flag; Key's still can't let it go!

    • Wensleydale 15.1
      29 June 2019 at 2:24 pm

      There is no crisis because, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, we've categorically stated there is no crisis.

      Job done. Thank you, and good night.

  16. JustMe 16
    28 June 2019 at 8:46 pm

    It's truly amazing that whilst there was a National government that one Judith Collins did not make a song and dance whilst a minister of the housing crisis, homelessness and all the other problems that National denied there was.

    In fact there was probably not even a peep out of her when Key, Bennett and most likely English claimed there is no housing crisis or a problem with homelessness.

    When politicians like the previous National government live in denial then on their heads be it.

    Unfortunately now they are in opposition, long may they linger there for the next 50 years or so, they are trying to give the misleading impression they are as pure as the driven snow.

    Out of all this we should have learnt by now to never ever trust the words of a National Party politician who did not condemn anything the government she was part and parcel of from 2008 through to 2017 did that wasn’t even in the best interest of say low income NZers. In fact it is likely she took advantage of things eg buying more properties.

  17. R.P Mcmurphy 17
    28 June 2019 at 9:02 pm

    they could start by buying back all the houses they sold to their mates. oh thats right. they are not the government anymore and the coalition has to start from scratch. thanks a lot

  18. WILD KATIPO 18
    28 June 2019 at 9:37 pm

    Yawn…. Judith Collins…

    What next do we have to ask?

    Bob Lazar and the Area 51 Mystery – with George Knapp – YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyUlaZR0PoY

  19. peterlepaysan 19
    28 June 2019 at 9:56 pm

    'crusher" Collins turns into "cuddly " Collins?

    REALLY!

    • Wensleydale 19.1
      29 June 2019 at 2:25 pm

      It's like putting candyfloss on a landmine. You're still going to lose your face.

  20. Dean Reynolds 20
    29 June 2019 at 10:26 am

    For the love of god, a left wing government will never build enough houses if it's relying on private sector builders. We urgently need to re-establish the Ministry of Works as the state agency leading the house building program, (if private builders want to operate around the margins, that's ok). This is the house building formula which solved the pre war & post war housing shortages & it'll work today.

    It's time we used state owned agencies to demonstrate the enormous power of the government to do good & transform thousands of lives for the better!

    • CHCoff 20.1
      29 June 2019 at 3:42 pm

      Yes, there is everychance that the bigger problem or stumbling block is not so much the building of the houses but that the functioning of the market is not for what it is (housing) but is for the functioning of it's bubble.

      The NZ history of solving house shortages, like the John A Lee period, would have some good points of reference to the practicalities, also wasn't or isn't there a situation with China and the 'ghost cities', i.e. the houses built but not being lived in?

      That could have some good ideas for NZ approach also as we do not have the demand problem, quite the opposite.

      To the market side of things, if there is a effective form of a 'house is a home' regulation, then the lowest tier of house owners can eventually get to a place where they build and trade in that bracket themselves, contributing to a thriving dynamic market in place of a mortuary for them.

  21. Anne 21
    29 June 2019 at 10:42 am

    We urgently need to re-establish the Ministry of Works as the state agency leading the house building program, (if private builders want to operate around the margins, that's ok). This is the house building formula which solved the pre war & post war housing shortages & it'll work today.

    This is precisely why KiwiBuild didn't get off the ground. Phil Twyford was trying to deliver a programme in a virtual vacuum without the security and the backing of a state sponsored agency. It is also the reason why the last National government abysmally failed although in their case they are too blinded by ideology to acknowledge the reality.

    I sincerely hope that the new ministers under the leadership of Megan Woods will set up a new ministry along the lines of the old Min. of Works.

    • Treetop 21.1
      29 June 2019 at 11:16 am

      Yes government run from start to finish using a known formula.

      • Incognito 21.1.1
        29 June 2019 at 11:23 am

        All good but where is the labour coming from? Not smart politics to go in direct competition with the private sector and it could also be more costly and still not deliver much more.

        • Anne 21.1.1.1
          29 June 2019 at 12:03 pm

          It will be the responsibility of the new state organisation to turn that around and it won't happen overnight. In the meantime they will have to partially rely on sections of the private sector – not all of which are opposed to the Kiwibuild scheme.

          They will need to import much of the Labour but on what terms and conditions I'm not well enough informed to know.

          It doesn't alter the fact that a modern Ministry of Works is the only vehicle through which the scheme has any chance of success.

          • KJT 21.1.1.1.1
            30 June 2019 at 7:05 am

            Imported labour just excerbates the problem.

            Plenty of out of work youngsters to train up.

            Some of us ex builders can train them, and build houses at the same time. Some high schools and polytechs already do it.

            • Anne 21.1.1.1.1.1
              30 June 2019 at 10:48 am

              Yet another problem courtesy of National who scrapped the government-run apprentice system for ideological reasons that took no account of where the future skilled workforce was going to come from. Yet another of the myriad examples of short term thinking and tunnel vision from National.

              I said "in the meantime" because it takes time to rev up the apprentice schemes and longer to train the lads to a reasonably skilled level. But I take on board the potential problems with imported labour. What happens when they are no longer needed? Do we send them back to where they came from? I suspect that would be fraught with difficulties.

        • Nic the NZer 21.1.1.2
          29 June 2019 at 12:15 pm

          This is a real problem but it doesn't even begin to be solved until the state housing builder is functional enough to grow capacity. The private sector wont ever produce the necessary excess. Also the RMA is a way to reduce capacity utilisation and free up building capacity. Tightening at the right moment can help get that going.

          • Dukeofurl 21.1.1.2.1
            29 June 2019 at 3:27 pm

            Thats not coming back , Ministry of Works.

            What the state can focus on is what the state does now , to remove coastly roadblocks with planning, consents and so on.

            For supply they can save mega bucks as bulk orders for supplies up to 50% ( as rebates for smaller numbers of 20% are common now)

            It would be in the modern vernacular , a house building franchise of the state. Where the government supplies the land, the permits, the ' supplies' and the builders and subcontractors just do what they do , build.

            In the end the State is the seller too.

            • Treetop 21.1.1.2.1.1
              29 June 2019 at 4:27 pm

              What happens when the builders and sub contractors put down their tools?

              • patricia bremner1000 …
                29 June 2019 at 5:55 pm

                A managed programme of social housing should be steady state rather than stop go.. and the tools would always be in use.
                Training,planning, building, tenanting , leasing,
                buying should all be backed by the Government, provided plans and conditions are met.
                This system works in Australia where whole communities are planned and built in stages.

            • KJT 21.1.1.2.1.2
              30 June 2019 at 5:46 pm

              Roadblocks to planning. Like forbidding leaky homes, you mean.

              Ministry of works, was better. Kept private building contractors to strict standards.

        • Treetop 21.1.1.3
          29 June 2019 at 4:12 pm

          Immigration wants builders, age care workers and teachers.

          Some property developers might become government contractors when sizeable lots are waved under their nose and the government does the funding for the build. Not having to deal with the bank to fund the build would sway some property developers.

          Leaving it up to property developers is a dead duck in the water.

          • Incognito 21.1.1.3.1
            29 June 2019 at 5:27 pm

            A property developer becoming a government contractor is not growing overall capacity.

            The stakes are high in property development and the banks lend money on that basis. The Taxpayer should not become an easy source for money and it should never become a ‘privatise the profits and socialise the losses’ and we don’t need a race to the bottom for the lowest tender either – we need value for money in a timely fashion. In fact, the state should negotiate fixed price contracts and guarantee that suppliers and sub-contractors are not left high and dry when the developer goes bust and does a runner. This and growing capacity should bring prices down.

            The building industry and property development in particular need to become more resilient and be able to withstand economic downturns more than is currently the case. In the long run, boom and bust cycles are (too) costly to society with only a few winners and many losers.

            • Treetop 21.1.1.3.1.1
              29 June 2019 at 6:43 pm

              Why is a property developer becoming a government contractor not growing overall capacity?

              • Incognito …
                29 June 2019 at 7:12 pm

                Because it is literally just paper (contracts, etc.) shuffling. It does not magically bring into existence anything tangible that will lead to more houses being built, at least not immediately. Whether a builder works for a developer or for a government-contracted developer won’t make a difference to the volume of work he can complete assuming there are no other constraints.

                National has always argued that the supply of land and consent costs are the bottleneck. But this is not an accurate reflection of reality, is it? Only Government has the power to make a difference across the board rather than running from one wall into another [no pun]. It is in this Government’s interest to increase flow and not limit it to keep control and prices high. Basically, it needs to open the market without flooding it because it is actually a very delicate and fragile system.

                The Government needs to build resilience into the system too, just as the banking sector is regulated by the RBNZ and needs to pass ‘stress tests’. Unfortunately, as soon as one suggests (more) regulation the vested parties and markets start to scream hysterically that it will increase costs and these will be passed on to customers. This seems paradoxical to me because lower risks should mean lower costs to the consumers.

                [Edit: corrected minor language errors]

                • Treetop …
                  29 June 2019 at 8:17 pm

                  You have thought a lot about the building sector and what direction it needs to go in.

                  Regulation and heavy government involvement is the direction I would take.

                  A lot of contracted overseas builders were duped by property developers.

                  • Incognito …
                    29 June 2019 at 9:25 pm

                    We agree. TBH, I have not thought very much about it at all but I do read the comments here and elsewhere and have come off the fence 😉

  22. Observer Tokoroa 22
    29 June 2019 at 3:56 pm

    Housing Hoped

    The Housing Crisis is a result of Houses being bought and sold up and up by Wealthy people (including foreigners), way beyond the wage capacity of NZ Workers and Homeless.

    On top of that, the so called Land Lords have added outrageous Rental demands on the Workers and the Homeless. So much so that the cost of Food, Heat, and Transport is beyoond reach of Workers. NZ Workers are Victims.

    To stem the Crisis:

    A) Immigration of any kind must Stop

    B) Buying and selling of Houses must Cease. Penalties for lack of maintenance will apply.

    C) Buying and Selling of Land must be stopped. Except where Land is required for Building.

    D) Houses valued above $1 Million Dollars must be levied heavily and Quarterly – until such time time as Workers Housing is available and stable. Reasonable in terms of good living too – Food, Health and Education. Whence the Levy will cease.

    Within a relatively short time Parliament will have returned this once fine Nation from a den of Gross Greed, back to a Land of Grace and Dignity.

    • Treetop 22.1
      29 June 2019 at 4:19 pm

      Immigration needs to target the skill shortage a country has.

      Once there is an over supply of housing the cost of purchasing and renting drops.

      • KJT 22.1.1
        30 June 2019 at 7:15 am

        There isn't a skill shortage.

        There is a shortage of employers who are willing to pay for skills.

        Most of the good builders gave Christchurch a swerve.
        Fletchers piad SFA. You could earn much more in Auckland, and even more in Queensland after the floods

        • Treetop 22.1.1.1
          30 June 2019 at 9:25 am

          How do you fix the shortage of employers who are willing to pay for skills?

          I saw your comment on ex builders training up out of work youngsters.

          Most property developers first priority is making profit and not building affordable housing. The government needs to address this imbalance.

          I would have sub divided every big state house section and put another property on the section. Not sold off a single state house for 3 years and only sold it off when the section could not be used to build more state housing.

          There is land to build on but no builders because the property developers grabbed the best land and they are building on it with a good return.

  23. Graeme 23
    29 June 2019 at 5:15 pm

    I'm going to buck the trend here and say that KiwiBuild was actually doing the deed. I've been in and around property development most of my 60 years and it takes a long time to get a decent sized project out of the ground. From getting control of the land to structure above it can take years, and that's not a recent phenomenon, the old Town and Country Planning Act was just as bad in town, and much worse around the edges of town.

    KB was trying to tip the industry on it's ear and get it building entry level homes by assuming some of the risk. Financiers and developers prefer 4 – 5 bedrooms because the potential market is larger, you can up sell in the absence of smaller, cheaper alternatives. That's why some in the industry hate it with a vengeance. But there's other developers who are embracing the concept.

    Down here (Queenstown) there's a 300 home development being done on the old High School site by Ngai Tahu that's 1/3 KiwiBuild https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/demolition-work-under-way

    There's also the Toru development at Frankton. The developer started planning this in early 2017 and committed to it late in 2017, it's just getting out of the ground. It will have a mix of tenure with our local Housing Trust taking some units, KB some, the developer retaining some rentals and a worker accomodation setup, and some going on general market.

    There's other projects in Gorge Road by the old school that will be similar to Ngai Tahu's and several more in Frankton that aren't confirmed yet. So in a town of about 12 -15000 this is going to have an impact.

    • patricia bremner1000 23.1
      29 June 2019 at 6:07 pm

      Exactly Graeme, it takes time. 20 months is a bit soon to say KB was a ."failure"&
      To Collins and c/o that was "Doing nothing new and expecting change:" Madness!!

      • Graeme 23.1.1
        29 June 2019 at 6:45 pm

        20 months, it was more like 20 minutes and they were crowing failure.

        The results around Queenstown won't be able to be judged fully until the peak of the next property cycle when there will, hopefully, be a body of lower spec (not 5 bed McMansions) in the market from a variety of sources for new entrants. That will be in 5 – 10 years.

        I've been very sceptical of efforts to produce "affordable" housing here because of the discretionary nature of residence in Queenstown, but I think the current mix of initiatives might have a chance of making an impact. God we need it, the place is brutal on the people who make it function.

        • Treetop 23.1.1.1
          30 June 2019 at 9:35 am

          Kiwi Build is like a fledgling business. In time as long as enough of the right property developers are taken on board the business will fly.

          What would you do to make Kiwi Build fly?

          • Graeme 23.1.1.1.1
            30 June 2019 at 11:20 am

            I probably wouldn't do anything differently. It was always a very tightly focused programme to deal with a market failure around entry level housing stock. I've not seen anything that it was going to solve the housing crisis, at all levels and in all locations overnight. There's also been a conflation of KB numbers with a total build number that included HNZ, other social providers, and private builds.

            KB is seen by some in the industry as an existential threat, some as a really good thing, and others as a lolly scramble. The first and last categories will have their own motives for criticism when they don't get what they want from the scheme. The middle group are getting on with the job and making it happen.

            In the 70's we had capitalisation of the Family Benefit which got low income families into their own house and built the current middle class, and quite a few beyond that. I'm not sure that we have a similar vehicle today, Working for Families, being a tax credit rather than a payment, seems designed to prevent a similar assistance, although maybe it could be applied to repay / reduce a government loan for a deposit top-up.

            • Treetop 23.1.1.1.1.1
              30 June 2019 at 2:14 pm

              Capitalisation of family benefit expanded my childhood home from 3 bedrooms to 5 bedrooms. It worked well for my parents.

              Rent to buy might work.

        • SHG 23.1.1.2
          30 June 2019 at 6:48 pm

          it was more like 20 minutes and they were crowing failure

          National took one look at the timeline Labour was promising and knew it would fail. Labour’s problem was setting impossible expectations and promising it would solve the housing crisis overnight.

          • Graeme 23.1.1.2.1
            30 June 2019 at 10:17 pm

            "Labour’s problem was setting impossible expectations and promising it would solve the housing crisis overnight."

            Have you got a reference for that because that's not how I remember it. How National spun it, yes, and how a lot of people who thought they were going to get a cheap house wanted it to be, but I’m not sure “Labour” said that.

            More than happy to be proven wrong, but my impression has always been that KiwiBuild was only a small part of a much larger building programme.

            • SHG 23.1.1.2.1.1
              1 July 2019 at 1:34 pm

              Labour didn't have a clear strategy for what Kiwibuild would do or be, which allowed everyone else to define it. Kiwibuild was whatever you wanted it to be because Labour couldn't actually say what it was. That's failure.

  24. Observer Tokoroa 24
    29 June 2019 at 7:23 pm

    Yes Graeme

    Yes Patrica Bremner

    As you know a Building is not a Building unless it has Quality! Quality is not plastic. The Terrible deaths in the TV Building in Christchurch lacked quality.

    So many scoundrels in NZ have ignored Quality. Not Phyl Twyford. Twyford has not Killed a 100 plus people.

    Even the volatile but perceptive National MP Judith Collins knows that a building is not a chicken coup. Perhaps she might educate her Colleagues. It will take a century or two.

  25. SHG 25
    29 June 2019 at 10:52 pm

    @mickeysavage – I’ll assume you’re ignorant of this, but describing something as “cotton picking” is really fucking racist. It’s tantamount to politely saying “niggerstuff”.

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