Open mike 02/02/2023

32 comments on “Open mike 02/02/2023 ”

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1. Jimmy 1

   2 February 2023 at 10:29 am

   Even James Shaw is not happy with this decision.

   "James Shaw, speaking as the Green Party co-leader rather than as the Government's Climate Change Minister, said ministers need to stop subsidising fossil fuels during a climate crisis."

   I'm happy to be saving $17.25 a week on fuel. And the good thing is, this will almost certainly now last until the end of the year.

   'Political sugar hit': Govt takes jabs from Greens, ACT, Nats over fuel tax cut extension (msn.com)

   Also good to know, Grant has found an extra $700 million to fund this.
   • Maurice 1.1

     2 February 2023 at 10:45 am

     "Also good to know, Grant has found an extra $700 million to fund this."

     It does not need to be funded as it is not being 'given' to fuel buyers – it is simply not being taken off them! Any budgeted shortfall may need a bit of juggling but money not taken is not lost …..
     • Spa 1.1.1

       2 February 2023 at 10:50 am

       So if the government reduced income tax to zero, it wouldn't need to be funded?
       • Ghostwhowalksnz 1.1.1.1

         2 February 2023 at 12:45 pm

         he says the 'shortfall needs to be juggled' in terms of the budget.

         And no fuel excise isnt being reduced to zero, so you have a straw man comparison
       • Nic the NZer 1.1.1.2

         2 February 2023 at 1:12 pm

         The statement Maurice made is very general. Govt payments are made in the payment system operated by the RBNZ. Of course they never need to collect any number of digits to spend any number of digits, in NZ$ the NZ govt can always make payment. Though there will be no juggling here either.

         Its always a question of what can be bought with that or its price (eg economic impacts). This is what is scrutinized via the budget process, though the budget forecast is not usually that accurate either.

         With no PAYE there would be a lot less need to work and many goods and services could start to cost higher 'bothered getting out of bed' costs.

         This small rebate on fuel will mostly lower its price and have little broad price impact however. Also the Greens have a point about high fuel price discouraging fuel consumption.
     • psych nurse 1.1.2

       2 February 2023 at 11:29 am

       As the price of fuel rose so did the GST take per litre, so they have only given a small amount of that back as subsidy. While business can claim fuel costs as GST exempt, Joe Bloggs is stuck with it.
       • bwaghorn 1.1.2.1

         2 February 2023 at 12:12 pm

         Things operating as per design then
       • alwyn 1.1.2.2

         2 February 2023 at 12:21 pm

         "While business can claim fuel costs as GST exempt, Joe Bloggs is stuck with it."

         Can you please explain what you mean by this statement? Just how does a business manage to avoid paying GST on fuel that they purchase?
         • Ghostwhowalksnz 1.1.2.2.1

           2 February 2023 at 12:43 pm

           GST rebated for those who are business registered. So what their suppliers charge is offset against own sales. And of course GST is mostly dues when sales are made , so passed onto the final payee …the everyday customer.

           If exported you get it refunded . Fonterra for instance pays no business income tax as its a cooperative. It gets a $200 mill refund from IRD largely because its sales are overseas.
           • alwyn 1.1.2.2.1.1

             2 February 2023 at 1:50 pm

             Your explanation is right. It doesn't explain what psych nurse says though.

             He/she is claiming that the product is GST exempt, which it isn't. Sure, if the price drops there, is less GST to pay but that is the same for any purchase at all, and applies to Joe Bloggs in just the same way. Joe will pay less GST after all.
             • Ghostwhowalksnz …

               2 February 2023 at 4:10 pm

               yes . Misunder stands what GST exempt is Thats mostly the banking and financial sector – that may cause some more corks to pop.

               I seem to remember they even broke the golden rule for banks under NZ GST and no exemptions for goods and service. Sure financial transactions are exempt ( plus the smart money people can used a structured finance deal to avoid paying GST , saying that down payments can be 'options' instead, but a different topic) but GST should be included on mortgage broker services but is a special exemption.

               Banks dont like GST as they have very little in their business that attracts GST. They are like commercial property investors who have to included GST on rent but their main costs are principal and interest on loans which doesnt attract GST. So very little rebates from their suppliers. The Big guys get around that by upgrading buildings , which construction costs do have GST included in invoices . but its a treadmill
             • psych nurse …

               2 February 2023 at 4:20 pm

               Road users charges are also able to be claimed, have done so for 30 years.
         • psych nurse 1.1.2.2.2

           2 February 2023 at 4:15 pm

           You keep receipts, claim the GST back on GST returns.
           • Graeme 1.1.2.2.2.1

             2 February 2023 at 7:53 pm

             But you've also got to pay 15% GST on your surplus (production) as well as income tax on your profit.

             GST registration can be a zero sum to sometimes negative game for the self employed.
   • SPC 1.2

     2 February 2023 at 1:17 pm

     The extra $700M found can simply be tax revenues ahead of forecast. Though can include delayed or suspended spending plans.

     The impact of Auckland flooding is likely to be mixed, initial downturn then the bump with the insurance payouts.

     Complaints that the money is for cheaper carbon use ignores the balancing effect of half fare public transport. And as for the idea that the benefit is regressive, it is timed to expire (or to continue to the end of the year) after any changes to WFF tax credits/AS in the budget (which would be more progressive).
   • Drowsy M. Kram 1.3

     3 February 2023 at 11:47 am

     https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2302/S00003/gordon-campbell-on-extending-the-fuelpublic-transport-subsidies.htm

     It's odd, don't you think, that the Nats bang on (and on and on) about how the cost of living crisis is hurting 'ordinary' people:

     "…the cost-of-living crisis is out of control…" – Upston [26 January 2023]

     and then whinge on (and on and on) when our Government does something to help.

     “Today’s fuel excise announcement by Prime Minster Chris Hipkins shows he is bereft of any new ideas for addressing New Zealand’s deepening cost of living crisis, National’s Finance spokesperson Nicola Willis says.”
     https://www.national.org.nz/new_leader_same_old_ideas

     Our Government's decision to extend the fuel excise tax cut will be seen as helpful by many. C'mon NAct, it's a "tax cut" – what's not to like?

     Fuel excise tax cut and half-price public transport extended, PM Chris Hipkins confirms [1 February 2023]
     "It's important we keep providing support to families and businesses who need it,” Hipkins said.

     He said fuel was “a major cost for nearly everybody” and the Government knew it could quickly act to keep prices down.

     A close election?
     Luxon is a political lightweight. He was a relatively obscure figure until being parachuted into the job of National leader in November 2021. He has been hyped up by the media at a time where Labour’s support has been waning. But he is not a charismatic person; he does not have the killer instinct or the talent for theatre that Key had.

     In policy terms, National are not offering much, and nothing new: tax cuts which will benefit the already wealthy and barely do anything to help workers struggling with inflation; platitudes about how they will grow the economy and be “tough on crime”; promises to attack beneficiaries. All this will do is make the rich richer while attacking the working class.
2. Reality 2

   2 February 2023 at 10:35 am

   Given the future pressure for housing in Auckland for those whose homes are red/yellow stickered, will it be an even bigger problem if all those extra immigrants the Chamber of Commerce wants who will also need housing?
3. Reality 3

   2 February 2023 at 10:51 am

   If public transport was sufficiently reliable and frequent in Wellington, it is likely more people would not use their cars to get around. So many cancellations and uncertainty is just too frustrating.
   • Maurice 3.1

     2 February 2023 at 1:30 pm

     The small bus "Myway" system is working so well in Timaru that the big buses are no longer to be used.

     https://www.ecan.govt.nz/get-involved/news-and-events/zone-news/orari-temuka-opihi-pareroa/on-demand-service-to-replace-timaru-link-bus/

     Hastings also has this system being introduced

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtF20_wbM9c
     • Tony Veitch 3.1.1

       2 February 2023 at 3:39 pm

       Some major cities around the world run these small buses, holding up to about 15 – 20 seats.

       Two I'm familiar with, Urumqi in China, population between 3 and 5 million, and Istanbul.

       Makes economic sense!
   • alwyn 3.2

     2 February 2023 at 2:01 pm

     I know quite a lot of people in Wellington who won't use Public Transport because they are concerned about getting infected with Covid. They are, like me, in the age bracket where there are more likely to be serious consequences.

     Are they being sensible? I don't know but they certainly appear to think so. I personally use my car instead of public transport but that is for a different reason.
4. Ad 4

   2 February 2023 at 12:16 pm

   This is the moment NLTF is to be sucked dry with floid repairs, and that's where Fuel Taxes go.

   The good news is it keeps stress off small business, which all helps keep people employed.

   Bad news is it a cost decrease on every litre for every car whether rich or poor. Time to make first 3 Zones of public transport free.
   • Ghostwhowalksnz 4.1

     2 February 2023 at 12:38 pm

     They have already indroduced the 'half price' for Community service card holders program which was to begin when the inflation reduction measure ended ( now extended)

     This is a targeted fare reduction not across the board which often benefits better off living in the inner zones around CBD
     • Ad 4.1.1

       2 February 2023 at 3:59 pm

       Community Services Card and Student and Gold Card discounts is such an over-regulated approach.

       They just need to take the extra step and make it free.

       Just make PT free to the main zones that take the bulk of PT users.
5. SPC 5

   2 February 2023 at 1:05 pm

   Meta-analysis indicates Vitamin D is useful as a treatment of covid illness and as a prevention of coronavirus illness.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5sc7G4s4CY

   And is also useful against other infections (viral and bacterial). It also helps reduce inflammation.

   The comparison to treatments that health systems pay big dollars for (given the lack of advocacy for use of Vitamin D) is indicative of big pharma capture.
   • Visubversa 5.1

     2 February 2023 at 2:20 pm

     I will wait for the peer reviewed study to be published in The Lancet or similar. In the meantime – it is summer – get your Vitamin D from the sunshine.
     • SPC 5.1.1

       2 February 2023 at 2:40 pm

       In the South Island maybe …

       Is the west, UK/USA, the reliable source of truth/narrative on matters of security, health and otherwise?

       A cheap product reduces the risk of hospitalisation/illness, but because of the imperatives of ensuring compliance with lockdowns and then vaccination, this is ignored.

       Given the risk of long covid increasing with each infection, maintenance of immunity (sleep and vitamin D) and cell health (zinc) is important public health messaging.

       Those with more colour produce less on the skin and people produce less and less on their skin as they age. Then there some who work shifts and those who have debilitating health conditions (heart, lung and kidney) and who are sometimes housebound.
       • Francesca 5.1.1.1

         2 February 2023 at 3:01 pm

         Agreed , older people are known to have less fat under the exposed skin, and therefore less ability to synthesise Vit D

         Plenty of studies on the importance of Vit D to immunity have been done already

         Here's one of them which also goes into hair loss, acne rosacea,skin cancers

         https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4642156/

         I certainly take supplements
       • weka 5.1.1.2

         2 February 2023 at 5:37 pm

         thing I want to know is if the effect is from Vit D irrespective of Vit D in the blood, or if they're using supplementation as a measure (presumably because it's easier than testing everyone).

         And whether this matters for NZ given that the health system discourages Vit D testing (because of the expense).
6. arkie 6

   2 February 2023 at 2:48 pm

   Another interesting point of difference:

   Chris Hipkins says it's 'inane' to rule anything in or out

   …

   "One of the things I have always tried to do in politics is not play the 'rule in, rule out' game, because events change things and governments need to adapt and respond."

   …

   Labour campaigned on a capital gains tax in the 2017 election campaign, as part of a promise to make the tax system fairer and help rein in house prices. It was held up by then-coalition partner New Zealand First, and not revisited in Labour's second term – in which it had an absolute majority – despite house prices skyrocketing in the wake of record-low interest rates.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/483510/chris-hipkins-says-it-s-inane-to-rule-anything-in-or-out
   • Mike the Lefty 6.1

     2 February 2023 at 7:10 pm

     Stuff journalists love the "rule in/rule out" game.
     • woodart 6.1.1

       2 February 2023 at 7:52 pm

       all political journos love it.its gotcha journalism its refreshing for hipkins to shoot this bullshit down straight away. quite correctly pointing out that circumstances force changes.

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