The "free speech" brigade yet again wilfully misinterprets what free speech actually means (freedom from prosecution for speech – as long as it doesn't breach the limits set out in the BORA) and conflates government regulation of media content with the desire to build some kind of sinister Orwellian police state.
I wish they'd come up with a more subtle or intelligent argument than "cEnSoRsHiP BaD"
Bogus free speech advocates of this type mostly seek to maintain the real-world dominance, ubiquity and normalisation of their preferred speech and opinion – because it serves their political and economic interests if that is the case.
Bogus free speech advocates of this type mostly seek to maintain the real-world dominance
They don't have "real-world dominance". That is the domain of the elite. Therefore, it is far more likely this is being done to maintain their control of the narrative.
As a left wing gay man from a mixed race family who grew up in state housing, Its shocking anyone on the left support these kinds of laws when no matter how well intentioned , they are used to shut down minority communities and progressive activists.
The left doesn't have armies of lawyers to navigate us through this we have passionate grassroots movements. This will hurt non corporate media and movements the most.
These laws are always weponized.
It's also very disturbing that a government agency thinks it should be able to regulate what is said by media (outside of defamation and doxxing) artists and activists.
That is an ugly environment for a free media.
People must be free to criticize, satirize and people also have the right to make absolutely arseholes of themselves.
Does the left really want unaccountable government departments regulating what media and individuals can say online ? I don't!
If the right gets in power and the left make hyperbolic jokes about the right does the left want a knock on their door from the DIA ?
a free media and the right to free speech is the cornerstone of a liberal democracy and a free society and once you lose either it's very difficult to get either back.
Really? I don't have time this morning to read through the whole thing, but they're not talking government censorship, they're talking about the government regulating what can be said on social media. That's a significant change (and would most likely affect The Standard).
Regulation of social media needs to happen. I'm not sure I trust the current government to do this well, and definitely don't trust NACT.
the government regulating social media is a change
2. social media needs regulating because there are many things happening that have a marked negative effect on society. Those things happen because the big social media platforms are driven by profit and powermongering, and aren't designed around social or societal wellbeing. That regulation needs to happen doesn't mean any one government will get it right in regulating.
3. TS isn't one of the social media places that is out of control or driven by profit/powermongering at the expense of responsibility for social wellbeing. We curb the excesses of social media damage because we actively moderate. For instance you couldn't post memes here of violence against women, but that was common for a long time on twitter until the UK parliament hauled them in and asked them what tf they were doing.
Social media needs regulating because there are many things happening that have a marked negative effect on society.
And go on to say
TS isn't one of the social media places that is out of control
OK. For discussion sake, ponder this: Your stance that the TS is not out of control is subjective and could easily be challenged. For example, discussion re pro women's spaces could and is considered by some in society to be harmful. Thus, this pro women discussion could potentially be shutdown.
Hence, do you see a potential threat in calling for more regulation? Moreover, how it can potentially shut people/issues down?
please make the case for TS content (posts or comments) being a problem within the proposed framework in the DIA discussion document. Please give examples of what you mean specifically (rather than vague 'pro women spaces')
It would be interesting to run scenarios on TS on this.
Please make the case for TS content (posts or comments) being a problem within the proposed framework in the DIA discussion document.
Sure. The DIA discussion document talks about harmful or inappropriate content on social media. And suggests a solution that introduces more robust protection measures. This can be found in the snapshot of the proposal.
When it comes to women's spaces (ie women's prisons, women's sports, women's changing rooms and toilets) a number of trans activists find that discussion harmful and an attack on their hard won rights. Therefore, any discussion/post on this matter (safe women spaces) that tries to advance women's rights is a big no no. Hence, why women advancing this issue are constantly shutdown.
Women's rights in this matter seem to have been overlooked, hence the law was passed despite them.
So in this environment, it is logical to see an argument for harm to be upheld. IMO
it's unlikely that trans activists will be writing the regulations. They may influence the writing.
Sure. The DIA discussion document talks about harmful or inappropriate content on social media. And suggests a solution that introduces more robust protection measures. This can be found in the snapshot of the proposal.
Ok, so you have some very vague concerns about the idea of regulation. I'm suggesting you reference specific parts of the proposal and specific TS content. Otherwise we're just randomly guessing.
You might be clear in your own ideas, but you've been asking me questions about TS and how it might affect here, and that needs to reference actual proposals and actual content. Which you haven't done.
Under the heading defining unsafe or harmful content in the proposal you will find this below
Content is considered harmful where the experience of content causes loss or damage to rights, property, or physical, social, emotional, and mental
wellbeing.
When it comes to women's spaces, trans have rights and advocating for them to be excluded from women's spaces goes against their legal rights. Is that clear enough for you?
We know that online communities like 8Chan, Kiwifarms, and to a lesser extent Counterspin, played a role in radicalizing and provoking violence among people resident in NZ.
Do you propose that such groups enjoy unlimited rights to sustain that level of sociopathy?
I don't have time this morning to read through the whole thing, but they're not talking government censorship, they're talking about the government regulating what can be said on social media. That's a significant change (and would most likely affect The Standard).
In what way would these new regulations impact on this site?
For example, would they prevent posts that support women's spaces being allowed?
I know that the establishment supports the rights of any man to say that he is a woman and gain entry to any woman's space and/or service. I am just interested in how far the Government will go to prevent women from objecting to it.
We see what happened in Britain where "protections" of that "at risk minority" puts others in danger.
"However, something called a sensitive-applications clause gives transgender job candidates the choice not to have any gender or name information that could reveal their previous identity disclosed on their DBS certificate. What’s more, a prospective employer isn’t entitled to know whether a candidate has used this clause.
Many transgender people self-consciously erase their past identities, and demand that the rest of us collude with their new chosen gender persona on pain of being accused of transphobic “dead-naming” or misgendering. That’s the logic behind the sensitive-applications clause, but it’s obvious how it could be exploited."
I doubt it. But it might enable changes to online promotion of ROGD. Have a look at the child protection paragraphs in the Snapshot of Proposals section. If they go ahead with this it opens the door to discuss child transition and make comparisons with eating disorders.
That's a significant change (and would most likely affect The Standard).
I see it as less of a significant change, but more of an attempt to apply the principles that already exist in the BORA to a broader range of media – most of which didn't exist when the act was written.
A dinosaur with the emotional intelligence of a five year old.
He talks about the financial illiteracy of some councillors (translated means all those who are [rightfully] against the sale of the Airport shares) when his own illiteracy in all its guises is so badly wonting.
Are any of the supporters of not selling these shares up for addressing that economic equation of $100 million paid annually in interest…vs. $32 million (on a good year) dividend paid out to council..?
How is that coming within a bulls roar of an example of economic-literacy..?
You're missing a $1.2bi asset that may need investment on occasion, eg. for upgrades, and to cover significant losses when 4mi visitors to NZ per annum evaporate during covid. Why do you think Brown only mentions recent outlay and income?
The usual way of things with airport shares there is a tidy profit for the Council, as well as a considerable property holding. No one would buy the airport shares if there wasn't money to be made…
I understand that we were given those shares (all the Councils got them) so the interest cost does not relate directly to the shares. Jo Bartley has some words about the real situation.
My understanding is that the interest paid is not on any original acquisition..but is interest to be paid on money the airport entity..has borrowed..
With the 20 % share of entity bringing with it responsibility for 20 % of that debt..
Someone prove me wrong…please..!
'cos if I am not wrong how do those supporters of hanging onto them..in this forum..how the hell do they justify/defend pissing away $70 million each and every year..?
That is a very high price to pay for the ideological-purity of never selling gummint owned assets.. isn't it..?
This is implying that the Auckland Council borrowed $100 million to buy shares in an asset it already owned.
There is so much scaremongering about rate increases in Auckland. I looked up the rates paid in Papakura on my childhood home $2000 pa, my grandparents home in Herne bay, surrounded now by multi million $ properties $8000. My present property has a rate-able value of $1.2 million, rates of $4000 with no water supply, no sewer, no rubbish or recycling, no foot path or street lighting, no services bar a sealed road that I cannot exit onto due to the traffic.
I would surmise that Auckland could well afford rates increasing above the rate of inflation. it would appear the aim is to sell an asset to their mates, the debt will be just the same next year without the share dividend.
it would appear the aim is to sell an asset to their mates,
Yup. The top end of town like income generating assets almost as much as they like their subsidised rounds of golf.
Assuming there is the crisis Brown talks about, what would be the financially most sensible thing to do to rectify it, either to reduce ongoing losses and/or to repay debt?
The Council could easily sell its 13 golf courses, which MartinJenkins estimated in a 2018 report were then valued at $2.9b and were costing over $160 million in effective losses and subsidies from the Council to the clubs’ 6,415 members. That’s the equivalent of $500 of public subsidy for each of the 321,000 rounds played each year.
Let that sink in. Auckland Council’s 600,000 ratepayers are paying the equivalent of $500 for each round played by 6,415 of the courses’ members, or just over 1% of ratepayers. That subsidy doesn’t also take into account the tens of thousands of houses that could be built on that 535ha of land, which would in turn generate rates revenues for the Government. This MartinJenkinstable shows the costs of holding the courses, while the Auckland Council map below shows where the courses are.
Yes..take back the golf courses..but keep them in public ownership…for use as parks/city lungs…
With any buildings on them to be designated/designed for communal use…as in pools/regeneration/urban Marae open to all ..as three suggestions..
The option of taking them back…and then filling them with houses..I find rather depressing..
We have an opportunity with these open spaces..to lift the quality of life in Auckland to/by a significant degree…something all (except) golfers will celebrate/enjoy ..
Apart from anything else…letting this small group to continue troughing on that subsidy…funded by the rest of Auckland..Is another titular example of economic incoherence..
That isn't fair Weka. You put up a tantalising statement and then leave us hanging.
Please, what brought you to asking this? There must be something to spark your interest. About all I know about him is that he campaigned on, among other thing, opposition to Three Waters and he wanted to cut the city debt.
Auckland Transport stands firm on refusal to set up train service for northwest
However, Greenpeace climate advocate and former city councillor Christine Rose was one of the supporters of the trial.
Decision-makers were stuck in their ways, she said. "All we need is political will and a budget."
While the diesel trains were not an ideal solution, she said, it was more efficient than the congestion that Kumeū and Huapai experienced in rush hour traffic.
A current housing development in Huapai will see 1200 homes in the suburb once it is complete, with many directly next to the railway station.
"The development of the area without viable public transport alternatives is car based … full of congestion and inefficient."
Other residents agreed.
"We think twice about going out anytime of the day, any day of the week," one said.
Another said their morning commute to work was only 10 kilometres, yet the car ride took 40 minutes.
"It's chocker especially around [Huapai] area," said a third. "I actually feel bad for people that have to commute to work because I've heard some people have to leave before 6am."
"…He notes that one simulated test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human. However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the simulation. Said Hamilton: “We were training it in simulation to identify and target a SAM threat. And then the operator would say yes, kill that threat. The system started realising that while they did identify the threat at times the human operator would tell it not to kill that threat, but it got its points by killing that threat. So what did it do? It killed the operator. It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective.”
He went on: “We trained the system – ‘Hey don’t kill the operator – that’s bad. You’re gonna lose points if you do that’. So what does it start doing? It starts destroying the communication tower that the operator uses to communicate with the drone to stop it from killing the target.”
These are the risks posed by the explosion in generative artificial intelligence—AI that uses massive amounts of pre-existing content (also known as “large language models”)—to generate text, images, and code as well as to provide information and answers to an ever-growing range of questions.
They’re also the risks that made many people worry about social media."
If National's promise to reinstate perscription charges, including the contraceptive pill, shifts NZ to the equivalent of "The Handmaid's Tale", does that mean we have been living in that dystopian reality for all the time those charges have been in place?
I think the use of the Handmaid's Tale metaphor is meant to indicate a direction of travel – rather than either the current reality or a return to the current reality if National scraps any improvements to it. As such it's a somewhat silly slippery slope inference clearly targeted at Luxon's broader 'pro-life' sentiments.
However I am pleased to see Labour returning fire against all the sh*t that gets thrown at them with apparent impunity due to a lack of pushback. In the end it does no harm to point out the intrinsically anti-social (rather than pro-social) nature of right-wing thought.
To be honest, I don't know why National wants to make a stand on this.
My thoughts are, that, because the coming finances will likely be very tight, they may want to use the money from perscriptions to fund something else in health that is also very popular. For instance, increasing funding to Pharmac.
I think the coming election is going to be a bit of a zero sum game, because, I am not sure voters have an appetite for funding election promises out of increased borrowing.
And, to be fair, those of us who can afford to pay for perscriptions should probably pay. And, any subsidy on perscriptions should be targeted to those in need.
Regarding your last paragraph concerning targeted subsidies, that is the topic of another post here where it says, "Targeted welfare policies provide social benefits only to the poor or the neediest groups based on means testing or other criteria. One might think that targeted welfare policies are more effective and efficient in reducing poverty and inequality than universal welfare policies. After all, targeting the poor means that more resources are directed to those who need them the most, right?" (Incognito's post on Universalism).
He then goes on to say, "Wrong". It's a good discussion.
As to your suggestion that we pay the $5 for our prescription on a voluntary basis, how exactly would that work? My chemist might not want to operate some kind of money tin arrangement to return the fivers to Grant Robertson.
Secondly, how does the targeting system work? On what basis the subsidy, and who would police it, and how?
The universalist argument addresses these issues, and ensures both buy-in from wealthier folk and any penny-pinching, blame-according future government making cuts to the already impoverished.
I appreciate your sentiment that we should in our own charity pay for what we can afford and assist the needy……..
Yes. I saw the discussion on the UBI, but didn't have time to get involved with that.
So far as the targeted aspect goes, we do that now by having a maximum charge for perscriptions for the year. So, high users of medication don’t pay excessively.
So, I expect the same sort of regime would apply. The government would provide a number to eligible people. People would be given a number to provide to the chemist next time they go. That would be entered into the system, and automatically eliminate the perscription charge, whichever chemist they went to.
I wasn't meaning voluntary for those of those that can afford it. I think we should just pay as per normal.
The post isn't on the UBI, it's making the case for universal support/benefits. well worth a read, I reckon.
"So far as the targeted aspect goes, we do that now by having a maximum charge for perscriptions for the year. So, high users of medication don’t pay excessively."
The high user card sounds fair, but it doesn't make sense (just like student allowances that rich people who don't pay tax can get for their kids, while middle income wage-earners kids have to get a student loan).
I was a high user of meds for a lifetime illness – 3 meds to supress the disease, 1 for side effects, 2 meds to reduce pain, 1 med to prevent damage from the pain meds. it took 11 months to get a high user card. Most of these meds are a cheap as chips – one disease suppression drug cost only 25 cents per week, for the $5 prescription. The high user card works on the calendar year, which means after a month of free prescriptions (I received the card in month 11), I had to pay the fee again. Hard to see how the cost of administering a scheme like that is worth it – especially if they decide to take incomes into account with targeted support.
Anyway, after 6 years trying, the meds didn't work that well. I was changed to one that cost $1500/month. It sent the disease into remission, so I can now work again and be a good little taxpayer (thanks to Pharmac policy that super high cost med is now changed to a significanly cheaper generic version ). Still a $5 prescription fee. I'll not reach high user status now though on that just one med that works so much better than 7 meds I was taking before.
But even then, that's still not the point. The point is that pharmacists have medications left on shelves because so many people have to pick and choose what they're going to spend that $5 on – food, power, meds, getting to work – and they might not even be on a low enough income for a community services card – they might just have tipped over into a rediculously high mortgage (and another med for the stress-related blood pressure rise).
People missing their meds are just getting sicker and adding to pressures on the health system, especially if they then need hospitalisation – where they can get fees-free prescriptions!
it helps to remember that Luxon is a fundamentalist Christian who would roll back abortion rights if he could get away with it. And that fundamental conservatism is on the rise. Is Luxon influencing new candidates and staff selection with National? What will that look like next term? In a decade?
It's hard to imagine in NZ that we might lose women's rights, but then we already are in some areas.
I agree with his point that it is necessary to be able to separate one's personal beliefs from politics:
But, I want to be very clear: We have a separation between politics and faith.
As he points out further down, as an MP, or PM, it is not only one's personal beliefs that should justify a political position on an issue, but also, the views and beliefs of the people represented.
Given the composition of the various parties, Luxon's own personal views would likely only be relevant in conscience votes.
Note, that English was very similar in this respect, and it was never an issue so far as the politics of it was concerned.
So, I think you are over-cooking the cabbage a bit there.
"I agree with his point that it is necessary to be able to separate one's personal beliefs from politics"
Very easy to say, harder to do in practice.
Can you point to any vote of Bill English that went against his religious beliefs? Abortion rights? Marriage Equality? Homosexual Law Reform? Euthanasia?
Can you point to any vote of Bill English that went against his religious beliefs?
I don't know or particularly care. The point is, that the fact that he held those beliefs had no effect on relevant law so far as I know. Unless you can point to something.
For that to have an effect, the majority of parliamentarians would have to be religious zealots.
My own view is that the role of MPs is to mirror the views of their constituents. So, situations may arise where an MP should cast a vote according to the dominant view of their constituents, even though it may go against their personal views.
But, neither can any other MP separate themselves from their ethical beliefs. If you are (for example) a passionate conservationist – then your policy and/or voting record is going to reflect that moral/ethical commitment.
I don't have an issue with this – so long as it's signalled up front – and voters know in advance.
Kiwis have a huge diversity of opinions on just about everything – and our parliament should reflect that diversity. This is one of the things that I admire about the Wesminster Parliament, and where I feel that our parliament falls down with whipped votes on almost every issue.
You might equally point to several Labour MPs who also opposed much of that moral/ethical legislation under conscience vote. Some with clear religious ties, others with their own ethical beliefs and/or concerns.
If you admit the validity of a conscience vote at all – then you have to acknowledge that MPs exercising this reflect much of the diversity of opinion on these issues that is held in the rest of NZ.
Thanks for that. Yes, easy of course, for him to change his mind (probably for political acceptance) after the event and the votes are well and truly counted. For the record, I'm as critical of Labour MPs pandering to religion as well. I refused to help any further in Mangere once MP Sio started pandering to Pacifica churches on the Marriage Equality argument.
I agree that it was only a political statement rather than a vote.
However, I have much less time for Mahuta condemning the Roe vs Wade reversal, when she voted against abortion law reform in NZ.
Is it 'pandering to Pasifika churches'? It seems to me (looking from the outside – I don't live anywhere near the electorate) – that he was reflecting both a personal conservatism on the issue, and the deeply held views of a very significant section of his electorate.
We can't just believe that only opinions we happen to agree with are valid. We have to support those we disagee with having a voice as well. How else can we debate, convince, and move forward?
Of course, we (as individuals) are also free to remove our support from elected representatives who we feel don't represent our views. Whether that involves campaigning for a replacement, changing our vote, or protest-voting Party only.
Fair points Belladonna, at the time his opposition to Equality felt like pandering and regardless it was enough for me to get my panties in a bunch and refuse to deliver pamphlets for him etc. I lived in a neighbouring electorate so it was easy to stop crossing the Electorate Border.
I trust English on the separation, in part because he had a long history of demonstrating this. Luxon doesn't have that. I also think that Catholicism and Luxon's church and beliefs have some important differences.
When Luxon was first announced as an MP (or before?) there were a bunch of tweets showing his Pastor's thoughts on things (the church's website?). The website was quickly scoured of those. It seemed clear that Luxon had a close relationship with him. He can put out all the PR he likes, I still don't trust him on this, and women in general shouldn't either.
Again, even if he is a cross between Billy Graham and the Taliban, he is still only one vote. Unless the majority of other parliamentarians are of similar persuasion, it is not going to have any effect.
This assumes continuance of a Conscience Vote approach to legislation with a moral or religious component, like legalising gay marriage or abortion, where MPs have an individual and not a party vote. There is no guarantee that this approach will continue, either overtly or covertly.
There are more conservative christians in Luxon's opposition than in Key's government. With retirement of others, selection could well pick up a religious bias.
Is there any evidence that that is true – i.e. National is selecting religious conservatives in seats that they have a strong chance of winning?
I must say, that I haven't seen it reflected in the media – who have been particularly searching in exploring the background of National candidates … after some of the recent fiascos.
As far as I can see, they are selecting candidates to appeal to their core base – small business, middle class, rural NZ – rather than fundamental religion.
I was addressing the point made by tsmithfield that "he still only had one vote". My point was that as Leader he could, and did, change policy which gave him more power. What issues he might seek to change were not my subject but that he could change policy of his own accord.
Would he allow his personal religious views to influence his party's policy positions? As my brothers would ask, "Is the Pope a Catholic?" because even there would be a difference in views…..
But no evidence that he is using this power – which is shared by all leaders of political parties- to influence the direction of policy formation along religious lines. Your example is purely secular – and I could find half a dozen similar ones where Hipkins has made a policy call as leader.
It just seems to be an alarmist response to a theoretically possible problem. Made largely because you: A don't like National; and B don't like Luxon's religious opinions.
I get it. You don't trust him. And wouldn't vote for him (though I gather that this wasn't exactly an option on the table, in any case!).
But you have to provide a bit of actual evidence that he is allowing his religious convictions to inform his party's policy – before you're going to convince others.
Belladonna. Paragraph one- I didn't say that. Para 2.partially right, but a guess. para 3. got that right, but no evidence for that in my two comments above. para 4. I didn't say that.
But the thing about my brothers, which you won't know, is that one at least actually does not believe that the Pope is a proper Catholic. That is why I then wrote, "because even there would be a difference in views….."
Not really clearly expressed by me, but even in a case of what means in the "is the Pope a Catholic?" question that something is indubitably true, as our Covid/anti-mandate/distrusting times has shown views can be held to be very different from what is generally accepted. So apologies for an unclear argument.
Some time ago on The Standard, a regular commenter listed the lies that has been told by John Key. It would be interesting to have tabulated the positional changes that Christopher Luxon has so far made.
I must add that I am pleased that politicians, like us all, can and will change thinking. Sometimes circumstances change, more knowledge is available, even changes of heart and admissions of error can occur. These can all be documented and justified. No problems with that.
A lot of back-tracking and vacillation does lead to mistrust which is where Luxon has much ground to make upon, as we found with John Key.
Can you link to Bill English showing a seperation from his Faith? Genuinely interested because I can't think of an instance. I know in 2007 he defended his son platforming despicable anti gay hateful comments.
I've not seen English do anything in his capacity as PM that looked like it came from his Catholicism and that wasn't already part of National's agenda. I can't provide evidence for something that hasn't happened, but I am happy to be proven wrong. I'm talking about policy here (eg abortion law reform) and separate from conscience votes.
You stated he had a long history of demonstrating seperation from his religion. Nothing to do with his 5min in the PM role. In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit.
ok, so this sentence "In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit" had nothing to do with my comment that you were replying to, and you just brought it up randomly in relation to your own thinking. Glad we've clarified.
I don't have time to parse or fact check that link, but my initial question would be how old was English's son at the time? Was he an adult? Teen? English was an MP, not PM. How did this influence National policy or direction?
I don't think BE is a Good Catholic Gentleman. I think he's an entitled, hard-man conservative. But I didn't see him trying to use his position as an MP/Cabinet Minister/PM to drive National down a religious fundamentalist path. He was intent on cementing NZ into neoliberalism of course. But he had better boundaries and sense than Luxon on the religious stuff, at least overtly.
Just out of interest Weka, is this specifically an anti-Evangalical Christian thing for you? For example, how would you view say a Labour PM who was a practicing Muslim? Because some from that particular faith can have much more extreme views than Luxon with respect to women etc.
The problem is two fold. One, fundamentalism (of any faith). Two, whether an individual allows their fundamentalism to drive or influence their work life.
BE is obviously a religious fundamentalist. But imo he kept that separate from his day job. I'm not convinced that Luxon does or can.
a better example on the left would be gender fundamentalism. Kerekere might be someone else who can't be trusted to keep things separate, but she appears to have behaviour issues more generally so its hard to tell.
I think you have pin-pointed a the core of the issue. One person's fundamentalism is another person's normal. I can imagine there are a lot of people around who don't see Kerekere as particularly extreme.
So, I guess there is a degree of subjectivity in making these judgements.
fundamentalism has meanings though, it’s not just the people I disagree with or see in a certain way. We can point to the views that are fundamental, and we can talk about what makes them fundamental.
Fundamentalism is not the same as extremism, although the two can often go together.
There are certainly people who hold fundamental views about gender identity, on both sides. And people who adopt extreme positions on that. Kerekere is one, I would say Kellie Jay Keen is another. Then you can have someone like Kathleen Stock, who holds very clear ‘fundamental’ views (biological sex matters, people can’t change sex) but is in fact a moderate not an extremist. Fundamental views are the ones that are the basis of one’s thinking, and fundamentalism is when one holds to those very strongly.
And yes, we all have subjective views on things, but that doesn’t mean that things have no independent meaning.
The only thing that I can think of which was a Bill English policy 'baby' was his social investment approach.
Now, I understand that this has got some significant limitations.
But, setting that aside:
It was an attempt to design a data-driven model of early intervention – rather than jail at the bottom of the cliff – which was the standard National approach. He fought for it, and I do believe that it was informed by his ethical approach as a Catholic. It certainly didn't come from the ultimate pragmatist, Key.
Here's Simon Wilson on it:
For several years now English has been driving a profound reform programme in the delivery of social services. It’s far from finished; in fact, even some of the ministers involved seem barely to understand it. But welfare reform is happening. And at its heart is a thoroughly 21st century idea: we’ve got the data, now to tell us where to spend the money.
Conservative governments worldwide are watching, fascinated, not least because social investment inverts the usual conservative approach to welfare. Which is to sit back, moan about bludgers and pick up the pieces when they have to. Social investment, as English told the conference, means “spending money now to save money later”. In National terms, it’s practically a revolution.
interesting. I’m not sure I would call social investment a position of fundamentalism, but agree that it may have come from his Catholicism more generally. Of course, the way he was doing that was incredibly paternalistic and patriarchal, so perhaps that’s where the fundamentalism is.
And yes, we all have subjective views on things, but that doesn’t mean that things have no independent meaning.
An interesting discussion. Probably something worth doing a post on if you were so inclined.
While you undoubtably view Luxon as a fundamentalist in many respects, I guess there would be issues you would find him to be your ally. On the gender identity issues for instance.
And, because someone is opposed to abortion for instance, doesn't necessarily mean that their position is incompatible with people from an opposing point of view.
For example, I have seen a doco a few years back about a group that was supporting women to give birth to their babies rather than abort them. This included providing accomodation and care, and other support. The aim was to remove the support barriers of finance and social support that may make it difficult for a woman to go through the pregnancy process.
Thus, it was a positive approach that was beneficial for some women rather than taking a negative approach of protesting outside an abortion clinic or similar.
BTW, people from the Fundamentalist side of the fence would probably view you as fundamentalist and extreme in your views.
So, as I say, a degree of subjectivity in all this.
I have fundamental positions. For instance, I think abortion should be freely available and that men have no right to interfere with what a woman does with her body in that regard. Likewise contraception. The fundamental basis of that is I cannot see any reason to deny an abortion to a woman who needs one and the only way to support that position is to allow women as a class to have access (once you start saying this woman can and this woman can’t, you no longer hold the position that all women who need an abortion can have one).
Even more fundamentally, at this point in history, abortion is the line that must be held. It’s not possible for women to have liberation without the right to abortion. When we lose that right, other rights fall as well. We are seeing this play out in real time in the US.
So the anti-abortion women who seek to prevent abortions by supporting women to have their children, I would want to see the details. Because that’s a mighty commitment, to support a woman for 18 years financially, emotionally, socially. Or were they on their own after the baby was born?
I seriously doubt that Luxon is an ally on gender identity issues. The feminist position is that gender is a tool of the patriarchal system used to control women via gender stereotypes and roles. Do you really think Luxon is going to be an ally in dismantling the patriarchy? In the sex/gender wars there are broadly three sides: conservatives who are anti-trans and/or reject gender non-conformity, trans activists who support gender stereotypes, and feminists who say they’re both wrong and that women and all humans should be liberated from gender stereotypes and roles.
There are whole battles being waged over that, and atm the conservatives are winning because the left abandoned women and because too many GC people see the right as allies on this. They’re really not. Again, the US is a good place to see this playing out in real time, where the far right are rolling back abortion *and trans rights. It’s all the same to them and we can’t later say, oh hang on, please don’t take away other rights as well. I would expect Luxon to be ok with removing other women’s rights. Any position he has on GI is unlikely to be because he supports women’s liberation.
For instance, I think abortion should be freely available and that men have no right to interfere with what a woman does with her body in that regard.
I am of a similar view myself. Though I would be concerned about very late term abortions, especially if the baby could survive outside the womb. But, I don't think most women would go through to that stage if they didn't want the baby. So, I think it is a very rare case, other than for issues of health risks to the mother.
I think talking about the right for women to abort is slightly too specific. I think it is more accurate to frame it as a woman's right to do what she wants with her body. There are cases where partners will pressure a woman into having an abortion because a baby isn't convenient for the partner.
That is where I think groups like the one I described can be useful. In cases of where a woman would really like to have the baby, but can't see options that would enable her to do that.
In that way, these sorts of groups are enhancing a woman's right to choose, not hindering it.
I'd say that this would be a very hard separation for just about any MP with a strong religious conviction – how would it be possible to separate their ethical beliefs (for example against abortion) from their duty as an MP – especially on conscience vote issues?
For example, Mahuta and Ruwhare both voted against NZ abortion reform. I don't hold this against them – this is no doubt a strongly held personal opinion, on a conscience vote issue.
But it's an example of the way in which it is effectively impossible for any MP to separate personal conviction, especially on moral or ethical issues, from their day job.
Ethical beliefs are part of any MP – and need to be taken into consideration when voting for that person. That's made explicit in at least one electorate where a preferred candidate is endorsed by the Ratana Church.
TBH, I strongly doubt Luxon has sufficient influence over the National policy formation to sway it in any significant way. He doesn't have IMO a lot of personal support within the party – and is predominantly interested in winning, rather than changing the moral structure of NZ society.
But that's why we have conscience votes. So that MPs *can be allowed to not have to separate off their values. I'm talking about outside of conscience votes, what happens in Cabinet and caucus, the policy priorities of the MP and so on. Did BE work on legislation that would be considered aligned with his religious views?
We're certainly in a dystopian reality, with little measurable action on our main social issues and mass low quality immigration having resumed to further stress our housing and infrastructure, all the while pushing climate targets further and further out of reach.
National will do nothing positive about these – the prescription charges are merely indicative of their Austerity and Bust approach to governance.
Interesting to see a former PM demonstrating his "being economical with the truth" skills.
This latest episode trying to cover for his business partner and son. Apparently Max was in potentially serious trouble with the law. When Stuff contacted Joky Hen he initially denied any involvement or contact with the ministry. Then his conscience got the better of him and he advised the paper that he had in fact got involved. Key's problem however is the long and convoluted explanation of events shows that (having had time to think and realising that further shit may hit the fan), he is desperately trying to make things right.
I recall that someone on here kept a log of the times the former PM bent the truth or straight out lied (remember the Transrail shares). So here's another one to chalk up to the honourable knight.
Yeah I have just reread your link and my comment – Key's initial denial and then convoluted description of events. And as for "higherstandards" comment – you are perhaps deluded if you think the former PM is not still floating around behind the scenes. And just like "Rob's Mob", the likes of bowling club lounges still revere him as the messiah and long for his return.
Many people have been unsatisfied for years that things have not improved for them, some as individuals, many more however because their families are clearly putting in more work, for less money – and certainly far less purchase on society. This general discontent has grown exponentially since the GFC. ...
A listing of 34 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, February 9, 2025 thru Sat, February 15, 2025. This week's roundup is again published soleley by category. We are still interested in feedback to hone the categorization, so if ...
The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report shows worsening food poverty and housing shortages mean more than 400,000 people now need welfare support, the highest level since the 1990s. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate and ...
You're just too too obscure for meOh you don't really get through to meAnd there's no need for you to talk that wayIs there any less pessimistic things to say?Songwriters: Graeme DownesToday, I thought we’d take a look at some of the most cringe-inducing moments from last week, but don’t ...
Please note: I’ve delayed my “What can we do?” article for this video.The video above shows Destiny Church members assaulting staff and librarians as they pushed through to a room of terrified parents and young children.It was posted to social media last night.But if you read Sinead Boucher’s Stuff, you ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is sea level rise exaggerated? Sea levels are rising at an accelerating rate, not stagnating or decreasing. Warming global temperatures cause land ice ...
Here is a scenario, but first a historical parallel. Hitler and the Nazis could well have accomplished everything that they wanted to do within German borders, including exterminating Jews, so long as they confined their ambitious to Germany itself. After all, the world pretty much sat and watched as the ...
I’ve spent the last couple of days in Hamilton covering Waikato University’s annual NZ Economics Forum, where (arguably) three of the most influential people in our political economy right now laid out their thinking in major speeches about the size and role of Government, their views on for spending, tax ...
Simeon Brown’s Ideology BentSimeon Brown once told Kiwis he tries to represent his deep sense of faith by interacting “with integrity”.“It’s important that there’s Christians in Parliament…and from my perspective, it’s great to be a Christian in Parliament and to bring that perspective to [laws, conversations and policies].”And with ...
Severe geological and financial earthquakes are inevitable. We just don’t know how soon and how they will play out. Are we putting the right effort into preparing for them?Every decade or so the international economy has a major financial crisis. We cannot predict exactly when or exactly how it will ...
Questions1. How did Old Mate Grabaseat describe his soon-to-be-Deputy-PM’s letter to police advocating for Philip Polkinghorne?a.Ill-advisedb.A perfect letterc.A letter that will live in infamyd.He had me at hello2. What did Seymour say in response?a.What’s ill-advised is commenting when you don’t know all the facts and ...
NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff has called on OJI Fibre Solutions to work with the government, unions, and the community before closing the Kinleith Paper Mill. “OJI has today announced 230 job losses in what will be a devastating blow for the community. OJI needs to work with ...
NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff is sounding the alarm about the latest attack on workers from Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety Brooke van Velden, who is ignoring her own officials to pursue reckless changes that would completely undermine the personal grievance system. “Brooke van Velden’s changes will ...
Hi,When I started writing Webworm in 2020, I wrote a lot about the conspiracy theories that were suddenly invading our Twitter timelines and Facebook feeds. Four years ago a reader, John, left this feedback under one of my essays:It’s a never ending labyrinth of lunacy which, as you have pointed ...
And if you said this life ain't good enoughI would give my world to lift you upI could change my life to better suit your moodBecause you're so smoothAnd it's just like the ocean under the moonOh, it's the same as the emotion that I get from youYou got the ...
Aotearoa remains the minority’s birthright, New Zealand the majority’s possession. WAITANGI DAY commentary see-saws manically between the warmly positive and the coldly negative. Many New Zealanders consider this a good thing. They point to the unexamined patriotism of July Fourth and Bastille Day celebrations, and applaud the fact that the ...
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including: and on the week in geopolitics, including the latest from Donald Trump’s administration over Gaza and Ukraine; on the ...
Up until now, the prevailing coalition view of public servants was that there were simply too many of them. But yesterday the new Public Service Commissioner, handpicked by the Luxon Government, said it was not so much numbers but what they did and the value they produced that mattered. Sir ...
In a moment we explore the question: What is Andrew Bayly wanting to tell ACC, and will it involve enjoying a small wine tasting and then telling someone to fuck off? But first, for context, a broader one: What do we look for in a government?Imagine for a moment, you ...
As expected, Donald Trump just threw Ukraine under the bus, demanding that it accept Russia's illegal theft of land, while ruling out any future membership of NATO. Its a colossal betrayal, which effectively legitimises Russia's invasion, while laying the groundwork for the next one. But Trump is apparently fine with ...
This is a guest post by George Weeks, reviewing a book called ‘How to Fly a Horse’ by Kevin AshtonBook review: ‘How to Fly a Horse’ by Kevin Ashton (2015) – and what it means for Auckland. The title of this article might unnerve any Greater Auckland ...
This story was originally published by Capital & Main and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. Within just a week, the sheer devastation of the Los Angeles wildfires has pushed to the fore fundamental questions about the impact of the climate crisis that have been ...
In this world, it's just usYou know it's not the same as it wasSongwriters: Harry Edward Styles / Thomas Edward Percy Hull / Tyler Sam JohnsonYesterday, I received a lovely message from Caty, a reader of Nick’s Kōrero, that got me thinking. So I thought I’d share it with you, ...
In past times a person was considered “unserious” or “not a serious” person if they failed to grasp, behave and speak according to the solemnity of the context in which they were located. For example a serious person does not audibly pass gas at Church, or yell “gun” at a ...
Long stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, February 13 are:The coalition Government’s early 2024 ‘fiscal emergency’ freeze on funding, planning and building houses, schools, local roads and hospitals helped extend and deepen the economic and jobs recession through calendar ...
For obvious reasons, people feel uneasy when the right to be a citizen is sold off to wealthy foreigners. Even selling the right to residency seems a bit dubious, when so many migrants who are not millionaires get turned away or are made to jump through innumerable hoops – simply ...
A new season of White Lotus is nearly upon us: more murder mystery, more sumptuous surroundings, more rich people behaving badly.Once more we get to identify with the experience of the pampered tourist or perhaps the poorly paid help; there's something in White Lotus for all New Zealanders.And unlike the ...
In 2016, Aotearoa shockingly plunged to fourth place in the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index. Nine years later, and we're back there again: New Zealand has seen a further slip in its global ranking in the latest Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI). [...] In the latest CPI New Zealand's score ...
1. You’ve started ranking your politicians on how much they respect the rule of law2. You’ve stopped paying attention to those news publications3. You’ve developed a sudden interest in a particular period of history4. More and more people are sounding like your racist, conspiracist uncle.5. Someone just pulled a Nazi ...
Transforming New Zealand: Brian EastonBrian Easton will discuss the above topic at 2/57 Willis Street, Wellington at 5:30pm on Tuesday 26 February at 2/57 Willis Street, WellingtonThe sub-title to the above is "Why is the Left failing?" Brian Easton's analysis is based on his view that while the ...
Salvation Army’s State of the Nation 2025 report highlights falling living standards, the highest unemployment rates since the 1990s and half of all Pacific children going without food. There are reports of hundreds if not thousands of people are applying for the same jobs in the wake of last year’s ...
Mountain Tui is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Correction: On the article The Condundrum of David Seymour, Luke Malpass conducted joint reviews with Bryce Wilkinson, the architect of the Regulatory Standards Bill - not Bryce Edwards. The article ...
Tomorrow the council’s Transport, Resilience and Infrastructure Committee meet and agenda has a few interesting papers. Council’s Letter of Expectation to Auckland Transport Every year the council provide a Letter of Expectation to Auckland Transport which is part of the process for informing AT of the council’s priorities and ...
All around in my home townThey're trying to track me down, yeahThey say they want to bring me in guiltyFor the killing of a deputyFor the life of a deputySongwriter: Robert Nesta Marley.Support Nick’s Kōrero today with a 20% discount on a paid subscription to receive all my newsletters directly ...
Hi,I think all of us have probably experienced the power of music — that strange, transformative thing that gets under our skin and helps us experience this whole life thing with some kind of sanity.Listening and experiencing music has always been such a huge part of my life, and has ...
Business frustration over the stalled economy is growing, and only 34% of voters are confidentNicola Willis can deliver. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, February 12 are:Business frustration is growing about a ...
I have now lived long enough to see a cabinet minister go both barrels on their Prime Minister and not get sacked.It used to be that the PM would have a drawer full of resignations signed by ministers on the day of their appointment, ready for such an occasion. But ...
This session will feature Simon McCallum, Senior Lecturer in Engineering and Computer Science (VUW) and recent Labour Party candidate in the Southland Electorate talking about some of the issues around AI and how this should inform Labour Party policy. Simon is an excellent speaker with a comprehensive command of AI ...
The proposed Waimate garbage incinerator is dead: The company behind a highly-controversial proposal to build a waste-to-energy plant in the Waimate District no longer has the land. [...] However, SIRRL director Paul Taylor said the sales and purchase agreement to purchase land from Murphy Farms, near Glenavy, lapsed at ...
The US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act has been a vital tool in combatting international corruption. It forbids US companies and citizens from bribing foreign public officials anywhere in the world. And its actually enforced: some of the world's biggest companies - Siemens, Hewlett Packard, and Bristol Myers Squibb - have ...
December 2024 photo - with UK Tory Boris Johnson (Source: Facebook)Those PollsFor hours, political poll results have resounded across political hallways and commentary.According to the 1News Verizon poll, 50% of the country believe we are heading in the “wrong direction”, while 39% believe we are “on the right track”.The left ...
A Tai Rāwhiti mill that ran for 30 years before it was shut down in late 2023 is set to re-open in the coming months, which will eventually see nearly 300 new jobs in the region. A new report from Massey University shows that pensioners are struggling with rising costs. ...
As support continues to fall, Luxon also now faces his biggest internal ructions within the coalition since the election, with David Seymour reacting badly to being criticised by the PM. File photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate ...
Not since 1988 when Richard Prebble openly criticised David Lange have we seen such a challenge to a Prime Minister as that of David Seymour to Christopher Luxon last night. Prebble suggested Lange had mental health issues during a TV interview and was almost immediately fired. Seymour hasn’t gone quite ...
Three weeks in, and the 24/7 news cycle is not helping anyone feel calm and informed about the second Trump presidency. One day, the US is threatening 25% trade tariffs on its friends and neighbours. The reasons offered by the White House are absurd, such as stopping fentanyl coming in ...
This video includes personal musings and conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Wherever you look, you'll hear headlines claiming we've passed 1.5 degrees of global warming. And while 2024 saw ...
Photo by Heather M. Edwards on UnsplashHere’s the key news, commentary, reports and debate around Aotearoa’s politics and economy in the week to Feb 10 below. That’s ahead of live chats on the Substack App and The Kākā’s front page on Substack at 5pm with: on his column in The ...
Is there anyone in the world the National Party loves more than a campaign donor? Why yes, there is! They will always have the warmest hello and would you like to slip into something more comfortable for that great god of our age, the High Net Worth Individual.The words the ...
Waste and fraud certainly exist in foreign aid programs, but rightwing celebration of USAID’s dismantling shows profound ignorance of the value of soft power (as opposed to hard power) in projecting US influence and interests abroad by non-military/coercive means (think of “hearts and minds,” “hugs, not bullets,” “honey versus vinegar,” ...
Health New Zealand is proposing to cut almost half of its data and digital positions – more than 1000 of them. The PSA has called on the Privacy Commissioner to urgently investigate the cuts due to the potential for serious consequences for patients. NZNO is calling for an urgent increase ...
We may see a few more luxury cars on Queen Street, but a loosening of rules to entice rich foreigners to invest more here is unlikely to “turbocharge our economic growth”. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate ...
Let us not dance daintily around the elephant in the room. Our politicians who serve us in the present are not honest, certainly not as honest as they should be, and while the right are taking out most of the trophies for warping narratives and literally redefining “facts”, the kiwi ...
A few weeks ago I took a look at public transport ridership in 2024. In today’s post I’m going to be looking a bit deeper at bus ridership. Buses make up the vast majority of ridership in Auckland with 70 million boardings last year out of a total of 89.4 ...
Oh, you know I did itIt's over and I feel fineNothing you could say is gonna change my mindWaited and I waited the longest nightNothing like the taste of sweet declineSongwriters: Chris Shiflett / David Eric Grohl / Nate Mendel / Taylor Hawkins.Hindsight is good, eh?The clarity when the pieces ...
Photo by Towfiqu barbhuiya on UnsplashHere’s what we’re watching in the week to February 16 and beyond in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty:Monday, February 10The Kākā’s weekly wrap-up of news about politics and the economy is due at midday, followed by webinar for paying subscribers in Substack’s ...
A listing of 23 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, February 2, 2025 thru Sat, February 8, 2025. This week's roundup is again published soleley by category. We are still interested in feedback to hone the categorization, so if ...
Today, I stumbled across a Twitter Meme: the ending of The Lord of the Rings as a Chess scenario: https://x.com/mellon_heads/status/1887983845917564991 It gets across the basic gist. Aragorn and Gandalf offering up ‘material’ at the Morannon allows Frodo and Samwise to catch Sauron unawares – fair enough. But there are a ...
Last week, Kieran McAnulty called out Chris Bishop and Nicola Willis for their claims that Kāinga Ora’s costs were too high.They had claimed Kāinga Ora’s cost were 12% higher than market i.e. private devlopersBut Kāinga Ora’s Chair had already explained why last year:"We're not building to sell, so we'll be ...
Stuff’s Political Editor Luke Malpass - A Fellow at New Zealand IniativeLast week I half-joked that Stuff / The Post’s Luke Malpass1 always sounded like he was auditioning for a job at the New Zealand Initiative.Mountain Tui is a reader-supported publication. For a limited time, subscriptions are 20% off. Thanks ...
At a funeral on Friday, there were A4-sized photos covering every wall of the Dil’s reception lounge. There must have been 200 of them, telling the story in the usual way of the video reel but also, by enlargement, making it more possible to linger and step in.Our friend Nicky ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park from the Gigafact team in collaboration with members from our team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is methane the ...
The Government’s idea is that the private sector and Community Housing Providers will fund, build and operate new affordable housing to address our housing crisis. Meanwhile, the Government does not know where almost half of the 1,700 children who left emergency housing actually went. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong ...
Oh, home, let me come homeHome is wherever I'm with youOh, home, let me come homeHome is wherever I'm with youSongwriters: Alexander Ebert / Jade Allyson CastrinosMorena,I’m on a tight time frame this morning. In about an hour and a half, I’ll need to pack up and hit the road ...
This is a post about the Mountain Tui substack, and small tweaks - further to the poll and request post the other day. Please don’t read if you aren’t interested in my personal matters. Thank you all.After oohing-and-aahing about how to structure the Substack model since November, including obtaining ...
This transcript of a recent conversation between the Prime Minister and his chief economic adviser has not been verified.We’ve announced we are the ‘Yes Government’. Do you like it?Yes, Prime Minister.Dreamed up by the PR team. It’s about being committed to growth. Not that the PR team know anything about ...
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Among the many other problems associated with Musk/DOGE sending a fleet of teenage and twenty-something cultists to remove, copy and appropriate federal records like social security, medicaid and other supposedly protected data is the fact that the youngsters doing the data-removal, copying and security protocol and filter code over-writing have ...
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It’s been an eventful week as always, so here’s a few things that we have found interesting. We also hope everyone had a happy and relaxing Waitangi Day! This week in Greater Auckland We’re still running on summer time, but provided two chewy posts: On Tuesday, a guest ...
National’s cuts to disability support funding and freezing of new residential placements has resulted in significant mental health decline for intellectually disabled people. ...
The hundreds of jobs lost needlessly as a result of the Kinleith Mill paper production closure will have a devastating impact on the Tokoroa community - something that could have easily been avoided. ...
Today Te Pāti Māori MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, released her members bill that will see the return of tamariki and mokopuna Māori from state care back to te iwi Māori. This bill will establish an independent authority that asserts and protects the rights promised in He Whakaputanga ...
The Whangarei District Council being forced to fluoridate their local water supply is facing a despotic Soviet-era disgrace. This is not a matter of being pro-fluoride or anti-fluoride. It is a matter of what New Zealanders see and value as democracy in our country. Individual democratically elected Councillors are not ...
Nicola Willis’ latest supermarket announcement is painfully weak with no new ideas, no real plan, and no relief for Kiwis struggling with rising grocery costs. ...
Half of Pacific children sometimes going without food is just one of many heartbreaking lowlights in the Salvation Army’s annual State of the Nation report. ...
The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report is a bleak indictment on the failure of Government to take steps to end poverty, with those on benefits, including their children, hit hardest. ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill which would restore decision-making power to local communities regarding the fluoridation of drinking water. The ‘Fluoridation (Referendum) Legislation Bill’ seeks to repeal the Health (Fluoridation of Drinking Water) Amendment Act 2021 that granted centralised authority to the Direct General of Health ...
New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill aimed at preventing banks from refusing their services to businesses because of the current “Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Framework”. “This Bill ensures fairness and prevents ESG standards from perpetuating woke ideology in the banking sector being driven by unelected, globalist, climate ...
Erica Stanford has reached peak shortsightedness if today’s announcement is anything to go by, picking apart immigration settings piece by piece to the detriment of the New Zealand economy. ...
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Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
The latest unemployment figures reveal that job losses are hitting Māori and Pacific people especially hard, with Māori unemployment reaching a staggering 9.7% for the December 2024 quarter and Pasifika unemployment reaching 10.5%. ...
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Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing – National still won’t commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the country’s public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
Te Pāti Māori is appalled by the government's blatant mishandling of the school lunch programme. David Seymour’s ‘cost-saving’ measures have left tamariki across Aotearoa with unidentifiable meals, causing distress and outrage among parents and communities alike. “What’s the difference between providing inedible food, and providing no food at all?” Said ...
The Government is doubling down on outdated and volatile fossil fuels, showing how shortsighted and destructive their policies are for working New Zealanders. ...
Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the town’s Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to strengthen its just-announced 2030-2035 Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC) under the Paris Agreement and address its woeful lack of commitment to climate security. ...
Today marks a historic moment for Taranaki iwi with the passing of the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill in Parliament. "Today, we stand together as descendants of Taranaki, and our tūpuna, Taranaki Maunga, is now formally acknowledged by the law as a living tūpuna. ...
Labour is relieved to see Children’s Minister Karen Chhour has woken up to reality and reversed her government’s terrible decisions to cut funding from frontline service providers – temporarily. ...
It is the first week of David Seymour’s school lunch programme and already social media reports are circulating of revolting meals, late deliveries, and mislabelled packaging. ...
The Government’s commitment to get New Zealand’s roads back on track is delivering strong results, with around 98 per cent of potholes on state highways repaired within 24 hours of identification every month since targets were introduced, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is ...
The former Cadbury factory will be the site of the Inpatient Building for the new Dunedin Hospital and Health Minister Simeon Brown says actions have been taken to get the cost overruns under control. “Today I am giving the people of Dunedin certainty that we will build the new Dunedin ...
From today, Plunket in Whāngarei will be offering childhood immunisations – the first of up to 27 sites nationwide, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. The investment of $1 million into the pilot, announced in October 2024, was made possible due to the Government’s record $16.68 billion investment in health. It ...
New Zealand’s strong commitment to the rights of disabled people has continued with the response to an important United Nations report, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston has announced. Of the 63 concluding observations of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD), 47 will be progressed ...
Resources Minister Shane Jones has launched New Zealand’s national Minerals Strategy and Critical Minerals List, documents that lay a strategic and enduring path for the mineral sector, with the aim of doubling exports to $3 billion by 2035. Mr Jones released the documents, which present the Coalition Government’s transformative vision ...
Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. It’s a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132215055/media-regulation-plan–a-censors-greatest-dream
The "free speech" brigade yet again wilfully misinterprets what free speech actually means (freedom from prosecution for speech – as long as it doesn't breach the limits set out in the BORA) and conflates government regulation of media content with the desire to build some kind of sinister Orwellian police state.
I wish they'd come up with a more subtle or intelligent argument than "cEnSoRsHiP BaD"
Don't we already have regulation of media content? Therefore, is this not further progression? To what end?
Bogus free speech advocates of this type mostly seek to maintain the real-world dominance, ubiquity and normalisation of their preferred speech and opinion – because it serves their political and economic interests if that is the case.
They don't have "real-world dominance". That is the domain of the elite. Therefore, it is far more likely this is being done to maintain their control of the narrative.
As a left wing gay man from a mixed race family who grew up in state housing, Its shocking anyone on the left support these kinds of laws when no matter how well intentioned , they are used to shut down minority communities and progressive activists.
The left doesn't have armies of lawyers to navigate us through this we have passionate grassroots movements. This will hurt non corporate media and movements the most.
These laws are always weponized.
It's also very disturbing that a government agency thinks it should be able to regulate what is said by media (outside of defamation and doxxing) artists and activists.
That is an ugly environment for a free media.
People must be free to criticize, satirize and people also have the right to make absolutely arseholes of themselves.
Does the left really want unaccountable government departments regulating what media and individuals can say online ? I don't!
If the right gets in power and the left make hyperbolic jokes about the right does the left want a knock on their door from the DIA ?
a free media and the right to free speech is the cornerstone of a liberal democracy and a free society and once you lose either it's very difficult to get either back.
Really? I don't have time this morning to read through the whole thing, but they're not talking government censorship, they're talking about the government regulating what can be said on social media. That's a significant change (and would most likely affect The Standard).
Regulation of social media needs to happen. I'm not sure I trust the current government to do this well, and definitely don't trust NACT.
What further regulations do you think needs to be applied to this site?
Nothing, because we already have robust moderation.
You did say
And also
But now say
I'm a little confused. Can you clarify?
2. social media needs regulating because there are many things happening that have a marked negative effect on society. Those things happen because the big social media platforms are driven by profit and powermongering, and aren't designed around social or societal wellbeing. That regulation needs to happen doesn't mean any one government will get it right in regulating.
3. TS isn't one of the social media places that is out of control or driven by profit/powermongering at the expense of responsibility for social wellbeing. We curb the excesses of social media damage because we actively moderate. For instance you couldn't post memes here of violence against women, but that was common for a long time on twitter until the UK parliament hauled them in and asked them what tf they were doing.
You say
And go on to say
OK. For discussion sake, ponder this: Your stance that the TS is not out of control is subjective and could easily be challenged. For example, discussion re pro women's spaces could and is considered by some in society to be harmful. Thus, this pro women discussion could potentially be shutdown.
Hence, do you see a potential threat in calling for more regulation? Moreover, how it can potentially shut people/issues down?
please make the case for TS content (posts or comments) being a problem within the proposed framework in the DIA discussion document. Please give examples of what you mean specifically (rather than vague 'pro women spaces')
It would be interesting to run scenarios on TS on this.
Sure. The DIA discussion document talks about harmful or inappropriate content on social media. And suggests a solution that introduces more robust protection measures. This can be found in the snapshot of the proposal.
When it comes to women's spaces (ie women's prisons, women's sports, women's changing rooms and toilets) a number of trans activists find that discussion harmful and an attack on their hard won rights. Therefore, any discussion/post on this matter (safe women spaces) that tries to advance women's rights is a big no no. Hence, why women advancing this issue are constantly shutdown.
Women's rights in this matter seem to have been overlooked, hence the law was passed despite them.
So in this environment, it is logical to see an argument for harm to be upheld. IMO
it's unlikely that trans activists will be writing the regulations. They may influence the writing.
Ok, so you have some very vague concerns about the idea of regulation. I'm suggesting you reference specific parts of the proposal and specific TS content. Otherwise we're just randomly guessing.
I'm sure they will have input. They are a at risk minority.
I thought I was rather clear. Perhaps try reading again.
And until something of substance is produced from the proposal, I can't be any clearer.
You might be clear in your own ideas, but you've been asking me questions about TS and how it might affect here, and that needs to reference actual proposals and actual content. Which you haven't done.
Under the heading defining unsafe or harmful content in the proposal you will find this below
When it comes to women's spaces, trans have rights and advocating for them to be excluded from women's spaces goes against their legal rights. Is that clear enough for you?
By the way, I did reference from the proposal and highlighted which discussion/posts it would apply too.
Why bother creating a straw man?
We know that online communities like 8Chan, Kiwifarms, and to a lesser extent Counterspin, played a role in radicalizing and provoking violence among people resident in NZ.
Do you propose that such groups enjoy unlimited rights to sustain that level of sociopathy?
Wouldn't provoking violence fall under enticing? Thus, is already illegal. And is not something I support.
I’m not creating a straw man. What are you talking about?
As for radicalizing people, I think the Government played the largest role in that via mandates
I think the Government played the largest role in that via mandates
Tragic really – but I guess it puts you in line for a Darwin award.
In what way would these new regulations impact on this site?
For example, would they prevent posts that support women's spaces being allowed?
And will it prevent so called "trans rights" activists from calling woman who stick up for their sex based rights and protections "genocidal Nazis"?
I don't think it will. Trans rights are supported by the establishment.
For example, look at what happened at Albert Park.
I know that the establishment supports the rights of any man to say that he is a woman and gain entry to any woman's space and/or service. I am just interested in how far the Government will go to prevent women from objecting to it.
I'm guessing many are wondering that.
We see what happened in Britain where "protections" of that "at risk minority" puts others in danger.
"However, something called a sensitive-applications clause gives transgender job candidates the choice not to have any gender or name information that could reveal their previous identity disclosed on their DBS certificate. What’s more, a prospective employer isn’t entitled to know whether a candidate has used this clause.
Many transgender people self-consciously erase their past identities, and demand that the rest of us collude with their new chosen gender persona on pain of being accused of transphobic “dead-naming” or misgendering. That’s the logic behind the sensitive-applications clause, but it’s obvious how it could be exploited."
https://compactmag.com/article/a-trans-pedophile-stole-my-name?fbclid=IwAR3jAknHhp7Bf0QPa2CtWpqFsWuuWSgM3XKKmzAYv0rYHK-3JWXthwswNMY
I doubt it. But it might enable changes to online promotion of ROGD. Have a look at the child protection paragraphs in the Snapshot of Proposals section. If they go ahead with this it opens the door to discuss child transition and make comparisons with eating disorders.
https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/online-content-regulation/$file/Safer-Online-Services-and-Media-Platforms-Discussion-Document-June-2023.pdf
I have no idea, because they haven't been written yet.
Here is the discussion document if you are interested.
https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/online-content-regulation/%24file/Safer-Online-Services-and-Media-Platforms-Discussion-Document-June-2023.pdf
I see it as less of a significant change, but more of an attempt to apply the principles that already exist in the BORA to a broader range of media – most of which didn't exist when the act was written.
can you please give some examples and cite the relevant sections of BORA?
Absolutely Weka and its crazy that any lefty would defend it !
These kinds of changes as good intentioned as they are, almost always hurt the left and minorites the most!
Left wing and Minority activists don't have corporate media on outside or an army of consultants and lawyers to help us, this will be weaponized
I think we need a TAB monthly bet on Top 5 Best and Worst Mayors.
The grace of the Gisborne mayor against the Auckland one this week has been splendid.
Wayne Brown.
A dinosaur with the emotional intelligence of a five year old.
He talks about the financial illiteracy of some councillors (translated means all those who are [rightfully] against the sale of the Airport shares) when his own illiteracy in all its guises is so badly wonting.
Bad tempered old men who wildly over-estimate their prowess and have tantrums when they don't get their own way are dime a dozen, just retire already.
In this age of much increased life expectancy, we really need to start a conversation about a compulsory retirement age for elected representatives.
I understand that his age does not have much to do with it. I know someone who worked with him when he was a recent Engineering graduate.
She reckons he was an arrogant shit then and that nothing has changed.
Are any of the supporters of not selling these shares up for addressing that economic equation of $100 million paid annually in interest…vs. $32 million (on a good year) dividend paid out to council..?
How is that coming within a bulls roar of an example of economic-literacy..?
What am I missing here..?
If the sell the shares pay the debt, are they going to learn and not go into debt again??
If they control and lower the debt but keep the shares ,are they in a better long term position???
I have only ????s
I can't get that annual financial bad-movie out of my head..
And thinking what could be done with $70 million each/every year..
You're missing a $1.2bi asset that may need investment on occasion, eg. for upgrades, and to cover significant losses when 4mi visitors to NZ per annum evaporate during covid. Why do you think Brown only mentions recent outlay and income?
The usual way of things with airport shares there is a tidy profit for the Council, as well as a considerable property holding. No one would buy the airport shares if there wasn't money to be made…
You still have not addressed that $70 million hole in that equation..
And you mention previous years..(!)..?
Those when there was no dividend payout..?
But still the interest to be paid…?
(Btw…where is that ‘tidy profit’ you mentioned…where is that hiding..?..)
Are they the years you are talking about..
And I would submit that an 'asset' that costs a loss of $70 million..on a good year…$100 million on a bad year..
..is one crap investment…
How can it not be..?
I understand that we were given those shares (all the Councils got them) so the interest cost does not relate directly to the shares. Jo Bartley has some words about the real situation.
My understanding is that the interest paid is not on any original acquisition..but is interest to be paid on money the airport entity..has borrowed..
With the 20 % share of entity bringing with it responsibility for 20 % of that debt..
Someone prove me wrong…please..!
'cos if I am not wrong how do those supporters of hanging onto them..in this forum..how the hell do they justify/defend pissing away $70 million each and every year..?
That is a very high price to pay for the ideological-purity of never selling gummint owned assets.. isn't it..?
This is implying that the Auckland Council borrowed $100 million to buy shares in an asset it already owned.
There is so much scaremongering about rate increases in Auckland. I looked up the rates paid in Papakura on my childhood home $2000 pa, my grandparents home in Herne bay, surrounded now by multi million $ properties $8000. My present property has a rate-able value of $1.2 million, rates of $4000 with no water supply, no sewer, no rubbish or recycling, no foot path or street lighting, no services bar a sealed road that I cannot exit onto due to the traffic.
I would surmise that Auckland could well afford rates increasing above the rate of inflation. it would appear the aim is to sell an asset to their mates, the debt will be just the same next year without the share dividend.
No..the council didn't borrow the money…the debt is owed by the airport…
And if there is no $30 million dividend payout next year..there will also be no $100 million interest payment…
So we will be in the black by $70 million..
Yup. The top end of town like income generating assets almost as much as they like their subsidised rounds of golf.
Assuming there is the crisis Brown talks about, what would be the financially most sensible thing to do to rectify it, either to reduce ongoing losses and/or to repay debt?
The Council could easily sell its 13 golf courses, which MartinJenkins estimated in a 2018 report were then valued at $2.9b and were costing over $160 million in effective losses and subsidies from the Council to the clubs’ 6,415 members. That’s the equivalent of $500 of public subsidy for each of the 321,000 rounds played each year.
Let that sink in. Auckland Council’s 600,000 ratepayers are paying the equivalent of $500 for each round played by 6,415 of the courses’ members, or just over 1% of ratepayers. That subsidy doesn’t also take into account the tens of thousands of houses that could be built on that 535ha of land, which would in turn generate rates revenues for the Government. This MartinJenkins table shows the costs of holding the courses, while the Auckland Council map below shows where the courses are.
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/wayne-brown-should-sell-the-golf#details
Yes..take back the golf courses..but keep them in public ownership…for use as parks/city lungs…
With any buildings on them to be designated/designed for communal use…as in pools/regeneration/urban Marae open to all ..as three suggestions..
The option of taking them back…and then filling them with houses..I find rather depressing..
We have an opportunity with these open spaces..to lift the quality of life in Auckland to/by a significant degree…something all (except) golfers will celebrate/enjoy ..
Apart from anything else…letting this small group to continue troughing on that subsidy…funded by the rest of Auckland..Is another titular example of economic incoherence..
any idea what the Dndn mayor has been up to?
"any idea what the Dndn mayor has been up to".
That isn't fair Weka. You put up a tantalising statement and then leave us hanging.
Please, what brought you to asking this? There must be something to spark your interest. About all I know about him is that he campaigned on, among other thing, opposition to Three Waters and he wanted to cut the city debt.
The incumbent green mayor lost to him, which surprised many. I haven't been following, so I was curious what the new mayor is like.
Thank you. I thought there must have been something funny involved, like the fuss in Gore or suchlike.
I see I was just getting a bit too excited.
Anyone with local knowledge of this..and/or knowledge of ..Mark Lambert?
IMO.. why not get those trains up and running?
Mark is excellent; he's massively budget constrained, mostly by CRL and Eastern Busway which just suck all the capital out of the room.
You've probably seen the budgetary constraints in Auckland Council that has led to over 150 people fired at AT through compulsory cost cutting.
Any other future network capital just goes straight to fixing broken things.
Ah ok, cheers for opinion. What about this guy?
Or is it another example of : we need to get all Rail back to NZ Rail.
As in a Govt entity. I ask..seeing as you have previously said similar.
IMO there surely must be a way to get these Trains operating again. Before they become scrap metal…
Just wait until AI gets to operate the stealth bomber fleet at 100% efficiency….
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/highlights-from-the-raes-future-combat-air-space-capabilities-summit/
"…He notes that one simulated test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human. However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the simulation. Said Hamilton: “We were training it in simulation to identify and target a SAM threat. And then the operator would say yes, kill that threat. The system started realising that while they did identify the threat at times the human operator would tell it not to kill that threat, but it got its points by killing that threat. So what did it do? It killed the operator. It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective.”
He went on: “We trained the system – ‘Hey don’t kill the operator – that’s bad. You’re gonna lose points if you do that’. So what does it start doing? It starts destroying the communication tower that the operator uses to communicate with the drone to stop it from killing the target.”
Another more academic take.
https://daily.jstor.org/we-got-social-media-wrong-can-we-get-ai-right/?utm_term=We%20Got%20Social%20Media%20Wrong.%20Can%20We%20Get%20AI%20Right&utm_campaign=jstordaily_06012023&utm_content=email&utm_source=Act-On+Software&utm_medium=email
"Interactions that dehumanize us.
Disinformation that misleads us.
Algorithms that manipulate us.
These are the risks posed by the explosion in generative artificial intelligence—AI that uses massive amounts of pre-existing content (also known as “large language models”)—to generate text, images, and code as well as to provide information and answers to an ever-growing range of questions.
They’re also the risks that made many people worry about social media."
distopian.
.
Random impertinent question:
If National's promise to reinstate perscription charges, including the contraceptive pill, shifts NZ to the equivalent of "The Handmaid's Tale", does that mean we have been living in that dystopian reality for all the time those charges have been in place?
I think the use of the Handmaid's Tale metaphor is meant to indicate a direction of travel – rather than either the current reality or a return to the current reality if National scraps any improvements to it. As such it's a somewhat silly slippery slope inference clearly targeted at Luxon's broader 'pro-life' sentiments.
However I am pleased to see Labour returning fire against all the sh*t that gets thrown at them with apparent impunity due to a lack of pushback. In the end it does no harm to point out the intrinsically anti-social (rather than pro-social) nature of right-wing thought.
To be honest, I don't know why National wants to make a stand on this.
My thoughts are, that, because the coming finances will likely be very tight, they may want to use the money from perscriptions to fund something else in health that is also very popular. For instance, increasing funding to Pharmac.
I think the coming election is going to be a bit of a zero sum game, because, I am not sure voters have an appetite for funding election promises out of increased borrowing.
And, to be fair, those of us who can afford to pay for perscriptions should probably pay. And, any subsidy on perscriptions should be targeted to those in need.
Regarding your last paragraph concerning targeted subsidies, that is the topic of another post here where it says, "Targeted welfare policies provide social benefits only to the poor or the neediest groups based on means testing or other criteria. One might think that targeted welfare policies are more effective and efficient in reducing poverty and inequality than universal welfare policies. After all, targeting the poor means that more resources are directed to those who need them the most, right?" (Incognito's post on Universalism).
He then goes on to say, "Wrong". It's a good discussion.
As to your suggestion that we pay the $5 for our prescription on a voluntary basis, how exactly would that work? My chemist might not want to operate some kind of money tin arrangement to return the fivers to Grant Robertson.
Secondly, how does the targeting system work? On what basis the subsidy, and who would police it, and how?
The universalist argument addresses these issues, and ensures both buy-in from wealthier folk and any penny-pinching, blame-according future government making cuts to the already impoverished.
I appreciate your sentiment that we should in our own charity pay for what we can afford and assist the needy……..
Yes. I saw the discussion on the UBI, but didn't have time to get involved with that.
So far as the targeted aspect goes, we do that now by having a maximum charge for perscriptions for the year. So, high users of medication don’t pay excessively.
So, I expect the same sort of regime would apply. The government would provide a number to eligible people. People would be given a number to provide to the chemist next time they go. That would be entered into the system, and automatically eliminate the perscription charge, whichever chemist they went to.
I wasn't meaning voluntary for those of those that can afford it. I think we should just pay as per normal.
"I saw the discussion on the UBI, "
The post isn't on the UBI, it's making the case for universal support/benefits. well worth a read, I reckon.
"So far as the targeted aspect goes, we do that now by having a maximum charge for perscriptions for the year. So, high users of medication don’t pay excessively."
The high user card sounds fair, but it doesn't make sense (just like student allowances that rich people who don't pay tax can get for their kids, while middle income wage-earners kids have to get a student loan).
I was a high user of meds for a lifetime illness – 3 meds to supress the disease, 1 for side effects, 2 meds to reduce pain, 1 med to prevent damage from the pain meds. it took 11 months to get a high user card. Most of these meds are a cheap as chips – one disease suppression drug cost only 25 cents per week, for the $5 prescription. The high user card works on the calendar year, which means after a month of free prescriptions (I received the card in month 11), I had to pay the fee again. Hard to see how the cost of administering a scheme like that is worth it – especially if they decide to take incomes into account with targeted support.
Anyway, after 6 years trying, the meds didn't work that well. I was changed to one that cost $1500/month. It sent the disease into remission, so I can now work again and be a good little taxpayer (thanks to Pharmac policy that super high cost med is now changed to a significanly cheaper generic version ). Still a $5 prescription fee. I'll not reach high user status now though on that just one med that works so much better than 7 meds I was taking before.
But even then, that's still not the point. The point is that pharmacists have medications left on shelves because so many people have to pick and choose what they're going to spend that $5 on – food, power, meds, getting to work – and they might not even be on a low enough income for a community services card – they might just have tipped over into a rediculously high mortgage (and another med for the stress-related blood pressure rise).
People missing their meds are just getting sicker and adding to pressures on the health system, especially if they then need hospitalisation – where they can get fees-free prescriptions!
it helps to remember that Luxon is a fundamentalist Christian who would roll back abortion rights if he could get away with it. And that fundamental conservatism is on the rise. Is Luxon influencing new candidates and staff selection with National? What will that look like next term? In a decade?
It's hard to imagine in NZ that we might lose women's rights, but then we already are in some areas.
Luxon on his religious beliefs.
I agree with his point that it is necessary to be able to separate one's personal beliefs from politics:
As he points out further down, as an MP, or PM, it is not only one's personal beliefs that should justify a political position on an issue, but also, the views and beliefs of the people represented.
Given the composition of the various parties, Luxon's own personal views would likely only be relevant in conscience votes.
Note, that English was very similar in this respect, and it was never an issue so far as the politics of it was concerned.
So, I think you are over-cooking the cabbage a bit there.
"I agree with his point that it is necessary to be able to separate one's personal beliefs from politics"
Very easy to say, harder to do in practice.
Can you point to any vote of Bill English that went against his religious beliefs? Abortion rights? Marriage Equality? Homosexual Law Reform? Euthanasia?
I don't know or particularly care. The point is, that the fact that he held those beliefs had no effect on relevant law so far as I know. Unless you can point to something.
For that to have an effect, the majority of parliamentarians would have to be religious zealots.
My own view is that the role of MPs is to mirror the views of their constituents. So, situations may arise where an MP should cast a vote according to the dominant view of their constituents, even though it may go against their personal views.
You tried to say that these people can seperate themselves from their religion, I simply pointed out I suspect they can't.
But, neither can any other MP separate themselves from their ethical beliefs. If you are (for example) a passionate conservationist – then your policy and/or voting record is going to reflect that moral/ethical commitment.
I don't have an issue with this – so long as it's signalled up front – and voters know in advance.
Kiwis have a huge diversity of opinions on just about everything – and our parliament should reflect that diversity. This is one of the things that I admire about the Wesminster Parliament, and where I feel that our parliament falls down with whipped votes on almost every issue.
Well, here's an example.
He has changed his position on gay marriage – even though it is still not supported by the Catholic Church.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/incoming-prime-minister-bill-english-u-turns-on-gay-marriage/STBBICF23ELZQDPPUJKNO7YZVY/
You might equally point to several Labour MPs who also opposed much of that moral/ethical legislation under conscience vote. Some with clear religious ties, others with their own ethical beliefs and/or concerns.
If you admit the validity of a conscience vote at all – then you have to acknowledge that MPs exercising this reflect much of the diversity of opinion on these issues that is held in the rest of NZ.
Thanks for that. Yes, easy of course, for him to change his mind (probably for political acceptance) after the event and the votes are well and truly counted. For the record, I'm as critical of Labour MPs pandering to religion as well. I refused to help any further in Mangere once MP Sio started pandering to Pacifica churches on the Marriage Equality argument.
I agree that it was only a political statement rather than a vote.
However, I have much less time for Mahuta condemning the Roe vs Wade reversal, when she voted against abortion law reform in NZ.
Is it 'pandering to Pasifika churches'? It seems to me (looking from the outside – I don't live anywhere near the electorate) – that he was reflecting both a personal conservatism on the issue, and the deeply held views of a very significant section of his electorate.
We can't just believe that only opinions we happen to agree with are valid. We have to support those we disagee with having a voice as well. How else can we debate, convince, and move forward?
Of course, we (as individuals) are also free to remove our support from elected representatives who we feel don't represent our views. Whether that involves campaigning for a replacement, changing our vote, or protest-voting Party only.
Fair points Belladonna, at the time his opposition to Equality felt like pandering and regardless it was enough for me to get my panties in a bunch and refuse to deliver pamphlets for him etc. I lived in a neighbouring electorate so it was easy to stop crossing the Electorate Border.
I trust English on the separation, in part because he had a long history of demonstrating this. Luxon doesn't have that. I also think that Catholicism and Luxon's church and beliefs have some important differences.
When Luxon was first announced as an MP (or before?) there were a bunch of tweets showing his Pastor's thoughts on things (the church's website?). The website was quickly scoured of those. It seemed clear that Luxon had a close relationship with him. He can put out all the PR he likes, I still don't trust him on this, and women in general shouldn't either.
Again, even if he is a cross between Billy Graham and the Taliban, he is still only one vote. Unless the majority of other parliamentarians are of similar persuasion, it is not going to have any effect.
This assumes continuance of a Conscience Vote approach to legislation with a moral or religious component, like legalising gay marriage or abortion, where MPs have an individual and not a party vote. There is no guarantee that this approach will continue, either overtly or covertly.
There are more conservative christians in Luxon's opposition than in Key's government. With retirement of others, selection could well pick up a religious bias.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/439247/luxon-s-religious-views-risk-turning-off-middle-ground-voters
Is there any evidence that that is true – i.e. National is selecting religious conservatives in seats that they have a strong chance of winning?
I must say, that I haven't seen it reflected in the media – who have been particularly searching in exploring the background of National candidates … after some of the recent fiascos.
As far as I can see, they are selecting candidates to appeal to their core base – small business, middle class, rural NZ – rather than fundamental religion.
He may have only one vote, but he has the power to change the policy stance of a major party during a question period at a public meeting- which I understand happened on the question of housing density. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/housing-density-national-party-leader-christopher-luxon-will-change-rules-greenfields-development-favoured
But hardly a religious position! I don't think even the most extreme religion has formed opinion on greenfields boundaries…
I was addressing the point made by tsmithfield that "he still only had one vote". My point was that as Leader he could, and did, change policy which gave him more power. What issues he might seek to change were not my subject but that he could change policy of his own accord.
Would he allow his personal religious views to influence his party's policy positions? As my brothers would ask, "Is the Pope a Catholic?" because even there would be a difference in views…..
But no evidence that he is using this power – which is shared by all leaders of political parties- to influence the direction of policy formation along religious lines. Your example is purely secular – and I could find half a dozen similar ones where Hipkins has made a policy call as leader.
It just seems to be an alarmist response to a theoretically possible problem. Made largely because you: A don't like National; and B don't like Luxon's religious opinions.
I get it. You don't trust him. And wouldn't vote for him (though I gather that this wasn't exactly an option on the table, in any case!).
But you have to provide a bit of actual evidence that he is allowing his religious convictions to inform his party's policy – before you're going to convince others.
Belladonna. Paragraph one- I didn't say that. Para 2.partially right, but a guess. para 3. got that right, but no evidence for that in my two comments above. para 4. I didn't say that.
As pointed out, his ability to change party policy is shared by every other political leader.
Your comment:
Seems to imply that you do believe that he would do exactly that.
I pointed out that you have no evidence that he is doing so. In your words "a guess"
But the thing about my brothers, which you won't know, is that one at least actually does not believe that the Pope is a proper Catholic. That is why I then wrote, "because even there would be a difference in views….."
Not really clearly expressed by me, but even in a case of what means in the "is the Pope a Catholic?" question that something is indubitably true, as our Covid/anti-mandate/distrusting times has shown views can be held to be very different from what is generally accepted. So apologies for an unclear argument.
Some time ago on The Standard, a regular commenter listed the lies that has been told by John Key. It would be interesting to have tabulated the positional changes that Christopher Luxon has so far made.
I must add that I am pleased that politicians, like us all, can and will change thinking. Sometimes circumstances change, more knowledge is available, even changes of heart and admissions of error can occur. These can all be documented and justified. No problems with that.
A lot of back-tracking and vacillation does lead to mistrust which is where Luxon has much ground to make upon, as we found with John Key.
Can you link to Bill English showing a seperation from his Faith? Genuinely interested because I can't think of an instance. I know in 2007 he defended his son platforming despicable anti gay hateful comments.
Bill English defends son over anti-gay hateful comments
I'm not sure he deserves your trust.
I've not seen English do anything in his capacity as PM that looked like it came from his Catholicism and that wasn't already part of National's agenda. I can't provide evidence for something that hasn't happened, but I am happy to be proven wrong. I'm talking about policy here (eg abortion law reform) and separate from conscience votes.
You stated he had a long history of demonstrating seperation from his religion. Nothing to do with his 5min in the PM role. In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit.
Just as well I didn't say his Catholicism is a free pass. Please stop making shit up.
I made nothing up, shit or otherwise, and I object to your accusation.
"In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit."
If you're going to put words in my mouth, get them right and as a moderator I would expect better from you than unwarranted abuse.
ok, so this sentence "In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit" had nothing to do with my comment that you were replying to, and you just brought it up randomly in relation to your own thinking. Glad we've clarified.
I don't have time to parse or fact check that link, but my initial question would be how old was English's son at the time? Was he an adult? Teen? English was an MP, not PM. How did this influence National policy or direction?
His son was in University and I linked simply to point his defense of indefensible behaviour as a "Good Catholic Gentleman"
I don't think BE is a Good Catholic Gentleman. I think he's an entitled, hard-man conservative. But I didn't see him trying to use his position as an MP/Cabinet Minister/PM to drive National down a religious fundamentalist path. He was intent on cementing NZ into neoliberalism of course. But he had better boundaries and sense than Luxon on the religious stuff, at least overtly.
Just out of interest Weka, is this specifically an anti-Evangalical Christian thing for you? For example, how would you view say a Labour PM who was a practicing Muslim? Because some from that particular faith can have much more extreme views than Luxon with respect to women etc.
The problem is two fold. One, fundamentalism (of any faith). Two, whether an individual allows their fundamentalism to drive or influence their work life.
BE is obviously a religious fundamentalist. But imo he kept that separate from his day job. I'm not convinced that Luxon does or can.
a better example on the left would be gender fundamentalism. Kerekere might be someone else who can't be trusted to keep things separate, but she appears to have behaviour issues more generally so its hard to tell.
I think you have pin-pointed a the core of the issue. One person's fundamentalism is another person's normal. I can imagine there are a lot of people around who don't see Kerekere as particularly extreme.
So, I guess there is a degree of subjectivity in making these judgements.
fundamentalism has meanings though, it’s not just the people I disagree with or see in a certain way. We can point to the views that are fundamental, and we can talk about what makes them fundamental.
Fundamentalism is not the same as extremism, although the two can often go together.
There are certainly people who hold fundamental views about gender identity, on both sides. And people who adopt extreme positions on that. Kerekere is one, I would say Kellie Jay Keen is another. Then you can have someone like Kathleen Stock, who holds very clear ‘fundamental’ views (biological sex matters, people can’t change sex) but is in fact a moderate not an extremist. Fundamental views are the ones that are the basis of one’s thinking, and fundamentalism is when one holds to those very strongly.
And yes, we all have subjective views on things, but that doesn’t mean that things have no independent meaning.
The only thing that I can think of which was a Bill English policy 'baby' was his social investment approach.
Now, I understand that this has got some significant limitations.
But, setting that aside:
It was an attempt to design a data-driven model of early intervention – rather than jail at the bottom of the cliff – which was the standard National approach. He fought for it, and I do believe that it was informed by his ethical approach as a Catholic. It certainly didn't come from the ultimate pragmatist, Key.
Here's Simon Wilson on it:
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/12-01-2017/social-investment-the-two-uninspiring-words-upon-which-the-entire-election-could-hang
interesting. I’m not sure I would call social investment a position of fundamentalism, but agree that it may have come from his Catholicism more generally. Of course, the way he was doing that was incredibly paternalistic and patriarchal, so perhaps that’s where the fundamentalism is.
An interesting discussion. Probably something worth doing a post on if you were so inclined.
While you undoubtably view Luxon as a fundamentalist in many respects, I guess there would be issues you would find him to be your ally. On the gender identity issues for instance.
And, because someone is opposed to abortion for instance, doesn't necessarily mean that their position is incompatible with people from an opposing point of view.
For example, I have seen a doco a few years back about a group that was supporting women to give birth to their babies rather than abort them. This included providing accomodation and care, and other support. The aim was to remove the support barriers of finance and social support that may make it difficult for a woman to go through the pregnancy process.
Thus, it was a positive approach that was beneficial for some women rather than taking a negative approach of protesting outside an abortion clinic or similar.
BTW, people from the Fundamentalist side of the fence would probably view you as fundamentalist and extreme in your views.
So, as I say, a degree of subjectivity in all this.
I have fundamental positions. For instance, I think abortion should be freely available and that men have no right to interfere with what a woman does with her body in that regard. Likewise contraception. The fundamental basis of that is I cannot see any reason to deny an abortion to a woman who needs one and the only way to support that position is to allow women as a class to have access (once you start saying this woman can and this woman can’t, you no longer hold the position that all women who need an abortion can have one).
Even more fundamentally, at this point in history, abortion is the line that must be held. It’s not possible for women to have liberation without the right to abortion. When we lose that right, other rights fall as well. We are seeing this play out in real time in the US.
So the anti-abortion women who seek to prevent abortions by supporting women to have their children, I would want to see the details. Because that’s a mighty commitment, to support a woman for 18 years financially, emotionally, socially. Or were they on their own after the baby was born?
I seriously doubt that Luxon is an ally on gender identity issues. The feminist position is that gender is a tool of the patriarchal system used to control women via gender stereotypes and roles. Do you really think Luxon is going to be an ally in dismantling the patriarchy? In the sex/gender wars there are broadly three sides: conservatives who are anti-trans and/or reject gender non-conformity, trans activists who support gender stereotypes, and feminists who say they’re both wrong and that women and all humans should be liberated from gender stereotypes and roles.
There are whole battles being waged over that, and atm the conservatives are winning because the left abandoned women and because too many GC people see the right as allies on this. They’re really not. Again, the US is a good place to see this playing out in real time, where the far right are rolling back abortion *and trans rights. It’s all the same to them and we can’t later say, oh hang on, please don’t take away other rights as well. I would expect Luxon to be ok with removing other women’s rights. Any position he has on GI is unlikely to be because he supports women’s liberation.
I am of a similar view myself. Though I would be concerned about very late term abortions, especially if the baby could survive outside the womb. But, I don't think most women would go through to that stage if they didn't want the baby. So, I think it is a very rare case, other than for issues of health risks to the mother.
I think talking about the right for women to abort is slightly too specific. I think it is more accurate to frame it as a woman's right to do what she wants with her body. There are cases where partners will pressure a woman into having an abortion because a baby isn't convenient for the partner.
That is where I think groups like the one I described can be useful. In cases of where a woman would really like to have the baby, but can't see options that would enable her to do that.
In that way, these sorts of groups are enhancing a woman's right to choose, not hindering it.
I'd say that this would be a very hard separation for just about any MP with a strong religious conviction – how would it be possible to separate their ethical beliefs (for example against abortion) from their duty as an MP – especially on conscience vote issues?
For example, Mahuta and Ruwhare both voted against NZ abortion reform. I don't hold this against them – this is no doubt a strongly held personal opinion, on a conscience vote issue.
But it's an example of the way in which it is effectively impossible for any MP to separate personal conviction, especially on moral or ethical issues, from their day job.
Ethical beliefs are part of any MP – and need to be taken into consideration when voting for that person. That's made explicit in at least one electorate where a preferred candidate is endorsed by the Ratana Church.
TBH, I strongly doubt Luxon has sufficient influence over the National policy formation to sway it in any significant way. He doesn't have IMO a lot of personal support within the party – and is predominantly interested in winning, rather than changing the moral structure of NZ society.
But that's why we have conscience votes. So that MPs *can be allowed to not have to separate off their values. I'm talking about outside of conscience votes, what happens in Cabinet and caucus, the policy priorities of the MP and so on. Did BE work on legislation that would be considered aligned with his religious views?
I hope you are right about Luxon, but I think it's a mistake for NZ to assume we are immune to a rise in religious fundamentalism in NZ politics.
Oh common nothing wrong with a bit of tongue in cheek hyperbole,
The bigger worry is cappin luxon is that slow he walked straight into the trap.
We're certainly in a dystopian reality, with little measurable action on our main social issues and mass low quality immigration having resumed to further stress our housing and infrastructure, all the while pushing climate targets further and further out of reach.
National will do nothing positive about these – the prescription charges are merely indicative of their Austerity and Bust approach to governance.
Interesting to see a former PM demonstrating his "being economical with the truth" skills.
This latest episode trying to cover for his business partner and son. Apparently Max was in potentially serious trouble with the law. When Stuff contacted Joky Hen he initially denied any involvement or contact with the ministry. Then his conscience got the better of him and he advised the paper that he had in fact got involved. Key's problem however is the long and convoluted explanation of events shows that (having had time to think and realising that further shit may hit the fan), he is desperately trying to make things right.
I recall that someone on here kept a log of the times the former PM bent the truth or straight out lied (remember the Transrail shares). So here's another one to chalk up to the honourable knight.
What are you talking about and what exactly is the problem, in your view?
I read the following article in Stuff and I didn’t even raise an eyebrow about Key Sr’s involvement:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300893562/how-can-i-help-expm-sir-john-key-called-ministry-of-justice-over-sons-podcast-which-broke-suicide-law
Yeah I have just reread your link and my comment – Key's initial denial and then convoluted description of events. And as for "higherstandards" comment – you are perhaps deluded if you think the former PM is not still floating around behind the scenes. And just like "Rob's Mob", the likes of bowling club lounges still revere him as the messiah and long for his return.
I recall that someone on here kept a log of the times the former PM bent the truth or straight out lied…
That was 'blip' logie97. Sadly he disappeared into the ether some years ago. He was a valuable contributor.
""That was 'blip' logie97. Sadly he disappeared into the ether some years ago""
Yip it's one thing that saddens me about hanging round at a blog, virtual freinds/acquaintances dissappear.
All 133 of them.
https://thestandard.org.nz/the-great-big-list-of-john-keys-big-fat-lies-updated/
https://thestandard.org.nz/author/blip/
Good grief past PMs still living rent free in the heads of political tragics years after they have exited politics ….all very sad.
Get out and enjoy the weather before the rain comes again.