Open mike 02/12/2012

53 comments on “Open mike 02/12/2012”

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1. Draco T Bastard 1

   2 December 2012 at 6:19 am

   Turia personifies Whanau Ora problem

   In the past few months a series of mini-scandals and criticisms have been levelled at the social welfare fund, largely thanks to digging by Winston Peters.

   Most damning has been the conviction of Mongrel Mob member Korrey Teeati Cook for supplying drugs he bought with a $20,000 Whanau Ora grant. At first, Turia insisted there was no proof – until Cook was jailed this month, which she dismissed as a one-off.

   It was recently revealed that a quarter of applicants who received Whanau Ora cash were from Te Tai Hauauru – Turia’s electorate. It has only 8 per cent of the Maori population. Turia says she is “more than satisfied with the accountability of the spend”.

   Seriously, it seems that the police should be looking into Whanau Ora already. And if not the police then a ministerial enquiry. There’s just too many stories of what looks like people getting money for nothing.

   • joe90 1.1

     2 December 2012 at 11:40 am

     Hate to say it but Whanau Ora, the supposed magic bullet, has indeed turned out to be just another opportunity for those in the know to fleece the taxpayer.

   • tc 1.2

     2 December 2012 at 2:07 pm

     It always had the look and smell of being Turia’s slush fund, those votes don’t come cheap you know.

     So more funds diverted from hospitals etc. Lovin the accountability/transparency NACT, nice one.

2. JazzaBelle 2

   2 December 2012 at 7:17 am

   Tamihere, who was a failed Minister and poor electorate performer, is lined up for a seat selection despite a string of financial and political sins.
   Cunliffe, who was a ministerial star and is a top electorate performer, is shafted for refusing to say how he will vote in a future secret ballot.
   Shearer is a genius. Shearer is genius.
   Heil Shearer.
   He will lead up to 23% in 2014 and do better than English in 2002.
   We are saved. We are saved.

   • just saying 2.1

     2 December 2012 at 8:24 am

     I intend to write to the council stating that though I have no particular objection to his being a member of the party, I would strongly oppose his being allowed to stand for Labour. Surely even a cursory reading of the foundational principles of the party, compared with Tamihere’s stated views, and past behaviour would rule him out as a representative.

     Hell, any hint of a possibility, and I’ll ring up talkback shows myself, and remind listeners of the family pets he abandoned when he moved home a few years ago. Just to get things moving.

     I hope others will make their feelings known on this issue, along with the many, many, reasons why Tamihere is not acceptable, and not Labour.

   • Murray Olsen 2.2

     2 December 2012 at 11:52 am

     I’d vote for David before I’d vote for John.
     I have to agree about Shearer’s genius, though. It takes a special type of political nous to ignore Jones, Tamihere, and Mallard and attack Cunliffe instead. It shows focus in the race for that 23%.

3. Skinny 3

   2 December 2012 at 8:01 am

   Record Redundancies 

   Reading this mornings NZH there is a item about record redundancies in NZ. National can take a bow for a lot of these job losses because of their inability too manage the economy properly. High NZD coupled with inaction 
   to stimulate job growth, thru one example ‘keeping it local with Govt contracts etc.’ Thank goodness the major opposition parties had the sense to hold a manufacturing/job summit 
   recently. I imagine in part Labour’s bold new Housing Policy came out of this? I think most New Zealanders know someone being made redundant lately. Is enough pressure being put on National by opposition parties? Should they band together with the CTU & lead a protest day of ‘all’ the workers getting the axe before Christmas. A damn good idea too highlight a piss & wind Government! 

4. Ad 4

   2 December 2012 at 8:17 am

   just beginning to wonder if the Labour leadership understand that the poll this week showing Labour losing ground and Greens gaining has something to do with membership dissatisfaction.

   The way Cunliffe was handled was one thing. But Tamihere is another.

   I suspect this will generate massive distaste among Labour’s female members, who will either stay home or switch membership to the Greens in droves.

   The poll shift means this is really hurting Labour and will get worse.

   Feels sick to be part of a nasty calculation like that ie liberal females are worth sacrificing in order to get a seat-winner back, and to shore up Shearer’s caucus majority.

   • karol 4.1

     2 December 2012 at 8:21 am

     Sepuloni would stand a good chance winning back Waitakere.  And Tamihere’s opening salvo is to call Bennett “fat”?  Yes, that’s really what’s wrong with her bennie bashing campaign.

     • Lindsey J Rea 4.1.1

       2 December 2012 at 8:33 am

       Tamihere is a 47% man like Mitt Romney. He dismisses women, gays and unonists in the Labour Party and still thinks he can win.

     • Skinny 4.1.2

       2 December 2012 at 8:38 am

       Labour has enough ‘show ponies’ without adding has been JT. Shearer is going to be rolled by New York’s  Lady Penelope’s boy Parker. So no need to worry. 

       • Tigger 4.1.2.1

         2 December 2012 at 9:13 am

         Tamihere is a dinosaur. Also for all his talk he’s very thin skinned. He can dish it but can’t take it. He just got personal with that vile ‘fat’ comment. Problem is a bunch of us know some personal stuff about you JT. Keep acting like this and we’ll start slapping you back.

       • Colonial Viper 4.1.2.2

         2 December 2012 at 9:17 am

         Labour “show ponies”? It seems to me like Labour prefers to pick lames for race day.

         • Tigger 4.1.2.2.1

           2 December 2012 at 9:40 am

           This may well be the final nail in the coffin for my Labour membership. Who thought this was a good idea? Did they allow Tamihere back in as a show of how broadminded they are? To have him pissing from inside the tent? Look at the very first thing he’s done – he’s fired off a bunch of shots at his own members.

           Labour isn’t being led at the moment. It is lurching forward. It is dying and it doesn’t even know it.

           • Colonial Viper 4.1.2.2.1.1

             2 December 2012 at 9:57 am

             Who thought this was a good idea?

             My guess? David Shearer, Grant Robertson, and their respective staff. A lot of you guys know people on New Zealand Council. Ask them to see if they can confirm or deny.

             Anyhows, the Labour Party is a ship headed by Captain Edward John Smith, and the order from the bridge is “Full speed ahead. Damn the icebergs”.

             • Jim Nald - Once Was National …

               2 December 2012 at 10:10 am

               “To have him pissing from inside the tent?”

               Or more precisely, to have him also pissing and shitting inside the tent.

               The Labour Party tent is getting more smelly, messy and distasteful.

               National is just lovin’ it.

               • Skinny …

                 2 December 2012 at 11:26 am

                 A crisp military salute to Viper ‘.’ This Ed Smith will be relieved of Captains duties by way of a mutiny ala the Bounty. Cpt Bligh’s crime of subjecting his crew to harsh treatment ( attempting a right lurch into dangerous waters instead of remaining to port) will require action from Fletcher in February. “Stir give em the lash… not the rum & the others coming.” lol.

             • Ant …

               2 December 2012 at 11:09 am

               Yeah it looks like a “Waitakere man” play. Who decides on the Waitakere candidate? – Carmel must be pissed.

             • Neoleftie …

               2 December 2012 at 12:02 pm

               Well cv looks like centralist shearer shoring up a power base by including JT and negating the power play by Parker and or robertson. Labour broad church split into multi blocks and factions has just got broader and more inclusive. JT connects to a segment of the elctrorate that labour needs to reengergise and reconnect to….also JT is a attack dog, a mongrel who can and will get dirty taking on the Tories.
               Whilst I don’t like jt he and his kind have a place in the very very broad tent that is or should be labour.
               Shearers divide and rule is working well so far shame he isn’t performing in public.

               • Ad …

                 2 December 2012 at 12:10 pm

                 God if only I had that much faith as you in Shearer’s political acumen (ahem) that I could see him making a proper splitter play.

                 It is definitely good “divide and rule” caucus politics. Great while you are still 2 years out. Crush your enemies and turn the whole caucus into West Germany 1981: absolutely everyone is a spy for everyone else. Keeps the leader the leader.

                 It is spectacularly bad Party politics.

                 And shockingly, cynically bad electoral politics. Don’t anyone think this guys brings swags of votes. He brings a handful, and burns a sackful.

                 The Greens are the winners out of this. Watch the next poll for the same tracking as current.

                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   2 December 2012 at 12:37 pm

                   The Greens are the winners out of this. Watch the next poll for the same tracking as current.

                   I will certainly hope that such occurs.

                 • seeker …

                   2 December 2012 at 4:30 pm

                   +1 Ad @12.10

               • Colonial Viper …

                 2 December 2012 at 12:41 pm

                 IMO JT can do nothing to fix Labour’s disconnection and tone deaf approach to the working class and underclass. You still have a caucus of MPs too many of whom completely live and breathe the insular Wellington beltway bubble of palace politics.

                 JT is being put back into caucus to appeal to the brash, slightly red neck, middle class. Also, as you point out, to further divide and rule caucus.

                 Can Labour use him to bring a bit of dirty street fighter mongrel back? Sure, exactly like a skinny snob can ring in for a bit of muscle to rough up the other side. But what does that really change? How will this move solve any of Labour’s biggest issues and limitations? In fact it risks much in return.

                 One further observation: in Labour, it appears you get handpicked by the few to become an MP if you belong to the right clique.

   • David H 4.2

     2 December 2012 at 10:11 am

     But it will blow up in their faces, as we are not all ‘1970’s blokey, insult everyone, bloke’s’. Personally I reckon he should run for the Nats, as his politics fit with them better.

     • millsy 4.2.1

       2 December 2012 at 12:48 pm

       He probably thinks the National party still hates brown people.

   • muzza 4.3

     2 December 2012 at 10:21 am

     Feels sick to be part of a nasty calculation like that ie liberal females are worth sacrificing in order to get a seat-winner back, and to shore up Shearer’s caucus majority.

     The “nasty calulation” goes far wider than “liberal females”. Be nice if people would look at the bigger picture, as opposed to the narrow biased view, but encouraging the calculations are being clocked!

     Labour are being imploded, National, currently having a free ride during some of the lowest times in NZ political history, and Russel Norman is being plumped nicely to slide in as “the left”

     Any odds on an offical National/Labour merger, or will they leave it at unoffical co-operation!

5. Ad 5

   2 December 2012 at 8:30 am

   Makes it feel like Shearer is preferring a superstar with high firework-burnout risk, to a lower-profile player who is likely to win with lower risk. Perhaps instead they could put Tamihere head to head with Hone from Mana. Carmel Sepuloni is a keeper.

   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     2 December 2012 at 9:09 am

     Not that I don’t appreciate your efforts, but this is what they usually call “picking up the polished end of a turd”.

     • Ad 5.1.1

       2 December 2012 at 9:35 am

       It’s still sticky.

6. Benghazi 6

   2 December 2012 at 9:02 am

   Simply put, Shearer is shoring up his risk with Jones by bringing back Tamihere. He thinks if he’s got to have a Maori, it had better be a bloke and either will do. Can anyone point to any evidence since Shearer became leader that he supports women or any other minority that JT feels entitled to publicly abuse?

   • Ad 6.1

     2 December 2012 at 9:39 am

     Puts a lot more stress on Labour’s Council to get the selection criteria and mix right next year.

     Whether the fresh names on Council can collectively stand up to Robertson, Shearer, Goff and King, is one last faint hope.

     Wonder what Moira’s view of Tamihere is? Perhaps she needs the confidence of a strong Council majority.

     • Ad 6.1.1

       2 December 2012 at 9:40 am

       In fact we should ask every female member of Labour’s caucus what they think of Tamihere back on the path to selection as well.

       • AwakeWhileSleeping 6.1.1.1

         2 December 2012 at 10:35 am

         I don’t even LIKE Bennett, and I’m offended at JT’s comments. We aren’t in a schoolyard FFS.

         I’m reminded of when males attacked my body insulting it as if it were their right to pass approval or disapproval.

         The proportion of “fat” insults are predominantly directed at females such as Bennett. It seems to me if you are female you can be considered “fat” at a size 12, or even a size 10 if you have offended someone sufficiently.

         Can anyone tell me if JT has launched a personal attack like this on Parekura Horomia, Tau Henare, or Pita Sharples?

         And DO we really want an MP who focuses his valuable time on body image rather than significant issues? He clearly has intelligence, but unless he is Winston I’m not sure he can pull of this type of angle.

     • Benghazi 6.1.2

       2 December 2012 at 8:31 pm

       I think you have your answer. The fresh names on Council are too scared to face down the Leadership team. Its just a no brainer regarding the harm Tamihere will do to Labour. But if that’s what the Leadership team want, then guess what we’ll all have to live with it.

       My guess is Moira is stuck between a rock and a hard place. She knows in her heart what is right but is powerless to stop the Shearer/Robertson train wreck.

   • weka 6.2

     2 December 2012 at 12:11 pm

     In the words of the man himself –

      
     So can he get on with his fellow Labourites?

     “Look, I don’t have to get on with these people. I’m joining the Labour Party. I’m not joining the ‘Women’s Party’, I’m not joining the ‘Union Party’, I’m not joining the ‘Gay Party’, I’m joining the Labour Party.
      

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851393
     Says it all really. Fine by me. As a woman voter, I’ll be supporting the GP to go after the women’s vote.

     • Skinny 6.2.1

       2 December 2012 at 5:09 pm

       It’s been a while since I attended a LEC meeting so will be going to the next one. Last thing we need is JT championing his own cause during election year & turning voters off in droves. His carry on  supporting Gibson & co at POAL sums him up. Bloggers on here referring to him as an attack dog, as if he is a heavy hitter have to be kidding. I’d rather have his side kick  Willie Jackson at least he fights from a true left corner. 

7. Rogue Trooper 7

   2 December 2012 at 9:18 am

   War on Terror; an open-ended question?
   http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pentagons-top-lawyer-says-military-fight-against-al-qaida-not-en-open-ended-conflict/2012/12/01/90a02102-3bd2-11e2-9258-ac7c78d5c680_story.html

8. starlight 8

   2 December 2012 at 11:25 am

   JT has only just got membership of labour again and he launches into the same type of
   rhetoric that got his membership withdrawn,incredible.
   NZ women dont need some political ‘wannabe’ telling them they are fat,therefore not
   worthy of respect,does the labour caucus really need the likes of JT in its ranks,indeed,
   in the membership ?
   After the Cunliffe dumping, i can see no real reason to support the Shearer led Labour
   party, the Robertson and Labour endorsement of JT,cements that.

   • Crimson Nile 8.1

     2 December 2012 at 11:57 am

     I’ve managed to get a few details, with some reasonable although I must say not absolute certainty. Parker, Twyford and Cosgrove all supported JT’s membership application earlier this week.

   • North 8.2

     2 December 2012 at 3:19 pm

     Starlight +1. Me too. Talkback is a highly remunerative power trip for redneck bully boys. Any prospect of change in that fulla ? Doubt it.

     • seeker 8.2.1

       2 December 2012 at 5:03 pm

       All this talk of JT reminded me of an American soap drama from the seventies with a main character called JR. Checking out if I had the initials correct (I had thought it might be JT too) I came across another spooky coincidence on the search engine in the description of the series…….

       “The soapy, backstabbing machinations of Dallas oil magnate J.R. Ewing and his family…….”
       Substitute the words in italics one gets a Kiwi up to date version:

       “The less than soapy backstabbing machinations of certain caucus members of the 2012 Labour party.”

       JR, and the entire cast of the Dallas series would have felt right at home in the Kiwi version.

9. aj 9

   2 December 2012 at 12:07 pm

   Whey was Labour missing from the lineup in today’s Q & A

   Very odd.

   • David H 9.1

     2 December 2012 at 2:57 pm

     Odd? Nope it just goes to show the level of distrust thats going on. Cunliffe should have been the guy who went to it. but they went with No one. A Brilliant idea that was, maybe they though we wouldn’t notice.

10. gobsmacked 10

    2 December 2012 at 12:46 pm

    So …

    John Tamihere gives interviews to the media, openly attacks members of a party that has just taken him back, throws around insults, and generally acts like an infant.

    This is OK.

    People on a blog then criticise Tamihere and his supporters.

    This is not OK. This is “undermining Labour” or “supporting National” or something. Because it’s on a blog.

    It’s now clear that this is all part of a great human experiment. The aim is to find out how often you can say “Black Is White”, and still get people to defer to authority, instead of reality.

    We must unite! We must rally round Shearer-Labour! We must support people who say “Labour”, even if they themselves are attacking Labour! If they undermine the party, we must support them, otherwise we will be undermining the party! Be Loyal to Disloyalty! It is the Only Way!

    And never forget … YOU are the real problem. Not Tamihere. Not Shearer. Not Jones. You. Because you’re on a blog.

11. millsy 11

    2 December 2012 at 12:56 pm

    John Tamihere hates gays, women and unions.

    The guy is more or less a brown Hitler.

    OK he may not get his wish to repeal the Homosexual Law Reform Act 1986, but as an associate education minister in a Shearer Cabinet he might launch a pogrom against gay schoolteachers, or campaign to get homosexual themed literature out of the school system, or as Social Development minister, stack the Families Commission with homophobes and seek to deny sickness benefits to those with HIV.

    He also supports Partnership Schools, and privatisation of health,education and welfare — if he had his way. — and hates unions, which is a bedrock of the labour party.

    He also called for tax cuts which would have collapsed our schools and hospitals.

    The guy must be stopped. Plain and simple.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      2 December 2012 at 1:00 pm

      Tamihere is a distraction, and a symptom of other issues.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1

        2 December 2012 at 1:04 pm

        +1

        • seeker 11.1.1.1

          2 December 2012 at 5:10 pm

          +2 CV “symptom of other issues” very spot on

12. tc 12

    2 December 2012 at 2:02 pm

    JT coming back is more of what the hollowmen ordered, carry on captain shearer. Aye aye Admiral.

    Sepuloni lost Waitakere largely because Bradford and Mana couldn’t be bothered with the big picture in unseating a cabinet minster and further evidence how ego ecentric they all are. They were never going to win it but rather then let Carmel have a clear run at it they did the ‘me me me me’ routine.

    Letting the devious and inciteful JT back is asking for trouble, he’ll make the nat’s look presidential with his talkback rant time adding to an already dodgy and flawed political character.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      2 December 2012 at 3:22 pm

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766370

      Sue Bradford:
      I’ve been making it really clear at every meeting I speak at that I am only asking for the Party vote for Mana in Waitakere, not the electorate vote.

      Yeah, such a “me me me” routine.

      • weka 12.1.1

        2 December 2012 at 4:23 pm

        Yet she stood as a candidate.
         
        Anyway, it’s not ego, it’s about using her electorate to increase the profile of Mana, and the issues.
         
        tc, why blame Bradford and Mana but not the GP, or the ALCP? Sepuloni lost by 9 votes, and any of Mana, GP or ALCP not standing a candidate would have ensured she won.
         
        We should be talking about parties accommodating at the electoral level.

13. Pascal's bookie 13

    2 December 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Both TV1 and TV3 have got polls out tonight.

    Telling times.

14. prism 14

    2 December 2012 at 9:06 pm

    Apart from JT and Q&A there was some other interesting stuff on today. Chris Laidlaw on Sunday morning for Radio nz did a piece on the environment – good stuff.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday
    Wayne Brittenden’s Counterpoint 11.41. a.m.
    then
    Chris follows up with Dr George Mobus, a University of Washington-based expert on cross-disciplinary approaches to understanding complex adaptive systems – blog is Question Everything.
    http://questioneverything.typepad.com/question_everything/2011/03/limits-to-complexity.html

    and in Ideas 10.06 a.m.
    Last month Human Rights Watch issued a report calling for so-called killer robots to be stopped in their tracks and this week Jeremy Rose talks to the report’s author, Bonnie Docherty. Wellingtonian Mary Wareham, who has just taken up the position of advocacy director of disarmament at Human Rights Watch in Washington DC, tells Chris Laidlaw about the challenges of convincing governments to give up some of the nastier parts of their arsenals, and Wim Zwijenburg, of the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons, talks about efforts to have a moratorium placed on the use of depleted uranium. Produced by Jeremy Rose.

    Also keep an eye on santa fe institute – some great thinking that I could possibly understand, and many of you for sure. http://www.santafe.edu/education/

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