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Open Mike 03/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 3rd, 2018 - 121 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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121 comments on “Open Mike 03/04/2018 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    Jeremy Corbyn and all the other Assad apologists, whether unwitting or conscious, need to hang their heads in shame.

    • francesca 1.1

      Never mind Jenny, things are looking up in
      The textile industry and its people are moving back
      That means employment and the ability to sustain life and no more rockets or bombs or suicide attack

      “Like most Syrians who have come home, they took refuge during the worst of the fighting in government areas like the coastal province of Latakia”

      From RT you reckon? Sana?
      No, the BBC, so when even the BBC is saying it..

      http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42755045 ….rebuilding Aleppo

      And Corbyn’s too busy fending off the Israel lobby lynch mob to apologise to Assad

      • Jenny 1.1.1

        “Like most Syrians who have come home, they took refuge during the worst of the fighting in government areas like the coastal province of Latakia”


        Government held?

        More like occupied Military base

        I actually spent time in Latakia in in late 2010, The Palestinian refugee camp in Latakia was one of the first areas to be shelled by the regime. In scenes reminiscent of Chile hundreds of the Palestinian were rounded up and held in the Latakia football stadium, many never to be seen again. The rest scattered and driven out of the city to join the beginning of the flood of refugees and internally displaced. Currently the regime is erasing all that remains of the camp. What was the Palestinian’s crime?

        Joining and supporting the demonstrations against the regime in the city.

        I obviously wasn’t there at the time, but I witnessed the live feeds friends sent me of the bombardment of the refugee camp by the regime warships off the coast. And regime jets dropping their bombs on the surrounding town.

        I know for a fact that the Palestinian inhabitants of the camp would have been defenceless in the face of this slaughter.



    • adam 1.2

      Jenny you get that civil wars are nasty. And that the sides involved are messy and well beyond stuffed up. Let me rewrite what you said, and you think how ridiculous it sounds.

      “Jenny and all the other apologist for the head choppers, whether unwitting or conscious, you need to hang your head in shame.”

      Sounds bloody ridiculous, no?

      Because you know what, how about you support people who are actually being democratic and community focused in all this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Syria

      • Ed 1.2.1

        Great point Adam
        In an ugly 7 year cilvil war both sides will have committed their fair share of atrocities.
        This is not a black and white issue. We are talking shades of grey.

      • esoteric pineapples 1.2.2

        Yes, which is why the Kurds are seen as a threat to absolutely every government in the Middle East.

      • Brigid 1.2.3

        “Jenny and all the other apologist for the head choppers, whether unwitting or conscious, you need to hang your head in shame.”
        So true

        For some it seems this disgusting foul obscene proxy Syrian war has simply become as important as a rugby game, (some people are obsessive about rugby) where they will not hear a word of criticism against their chosen side (the head choppers of a 14 year old Palestinian boy, (and others) who showed his support for the Syrian Government).

        Which sort of makes me feel rather sick.

  2. Sacha 2

    What’s with the fixation on Syria and Russia? There is plenty happening closer to home.

  3. Kay 3

    Further to the OM discussion yesterday. I realise some posts will be going up on the topic but just my 5c worth (hey I got 31c so might as well splurge!).

    Stuff got in on the act last night with this offering

    Naturally opening the comments which ties in with another topic on OM a few days ago (sorry can’t find link) to do with Stuff commentators. My reply to that being how all stories to do with beneficiaries are always open to comment because they know full well what will happen. And they didn’t disappoint- with an “upvote” of +75:

    “I cant believe the entitlement culture here. I believe in a hand up not a hand out, all these people complaining about not getting something like it was some kind of birth right. Why don’t we work on how to get people of welfare rather how much more we can give them. We would go a long way to sloving child poverty if we disincentivise single parent hood. Children from single parents are over represented in every negative statistic so why not address a root cause.”

    Other posters tried in vain to counter these narratives but didn’t do terribly well with the up votes. I mention those because it’s an example of how certain interests- or in the case of welfare, total bigots- want to rig it, and sadly those without critical thinking ablilities go along with the idea that most upvotes= must be true.

    Nothing new of course, but this is what we are up against, and Stuff are willingly giving them a platform, and I truely believe this has to be stopped. I believe Stuff are aiding and abetting hate speech by letting their anonymous commentators say it for them, and things that they can’t even let their paid opinion writers get away with. How can we stop them?

    I’m supposed to self censor and not go anywhere near these ‘articles’, yet alone the comments sections, but sometimes I’m, well, just stupid. I was in tears last night from that one, as I imagine were many others. Short of living in a cave we can’t avoid hearing this shit from somewhere.

    • I feel love 3.1

      The fact there are so many up votes and not many down votes shows to me that most caring and empathic people do indeed not read comments after articles. That’s why the Standard is essential to one’s mental health, for me anyway. Take care.

    • patricia bremner 3.2

      Being depressed goes with being oppressed. I am so sorry you saw that. Please believe they do not represent all of us. They “get off” with pulling people down.

  4. Pat 4

    “What’s happening is that Antarctica is being melted away at its base. We can’t see it, because it’s happening below the sea surface,” said Professor Andrew Shepherd, one of the authors of the paper. “The changes mean that very soon the sea-level contribution from Antarctica could outstrip that from Greenland.”


  5. Kat 5

    That old hack Soper over in “The National” is first out of the blocks today with a repeat “post Easter” heads up to ram home the “pre Easter” heads up on the state of the PM and Labour……. repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat……………

    “she’s struggled to control the troops”
    “Labour’s been left looking like a general in control of a mutiny”
    “The badly managed Clare Curran debacle”
    “Being forced to make statements that are patently ridiculous, such as, there are no Russian spies in New Zealand”

    And so it will continue…….

    • Sanctuary 5.1

      “…“Being forced to make statements that are patently ridiculous, such as, there are no Russian spies in New Zealand…”

      The guy is in an intellectual straitjacket born of age, class, complacency and sheer laziness. The utter lack of intellectual curiosity of our right wing journalists continually astounds me. They simply never question the cliched tropes they continually repeat.

      Soper continually comes across as a frightened old man out of touch with the modern world, no longer willing to absorb new ideas and who simply desperately wants a return of a 1990s style white male dominated “business friendly” neoliberal government that he can understand.

      There is a massive cultural divide now between the neoliberal dinosaurs like Soper – who remember 1984 as a fresh event – and anyone born into the the “new New Zealand” of the 1990s who have no recollection of the pre-Rogernomics NZ. Soper and his ilk now live in a foreign country that they imagine to be still like the one they once lived in the 1980s, before they vanished into their political-media neoliberal elite bubble in the 1990s. Muldoon is a real person from recent history to Soper and the politics of the 1970s colours his thoughts on the politics of NZ almost half a century later.

      Basically he is over the hill and a waste of time, the Garth George of our current time.

    • Anne 5.2

      These hack columns are so third rate it is best not to read them Kat.

      • Kat 5.2.1

        I have written to Soper previously about the overall bias and insulting tone of many of his columns especially regarding Jacinda Ardern peeing in the shower. He replied and he gave me a “stern” lecture on his longevity in parliament as a political journalist and that he has every right to voice his opinion and that I had no right challenging him.

        But I am keeping account.

        • JanM

          You can just thank your lucky stars you have never had to endure a dinner party with him as another guest – rude, opinionated and ignorant!

          • veutoviper

            Your worst nightmare stuff – Soper AND Griffin at the same dinner party!

        • NZJester

          It is the the way of the right. Only they have the right to say their opinion and your opinion is worthless to them if you do not have the same mindset, so shut up if you do not agree. You are not allowed to challenge them with real facts because to them the facts do not matter, only the way they feel. If the clear facts say one thing and they feel another the facts are clearly wrong and anyone who supports them are stupid and wrong.
          You can show them all the proven facts you want, but you are the stupid one for believing in the facts instead of going with your gut and ignoring them in favor of the anecdote he was told that apparently came from his work colleges friends neighbours second cousin who was told the facts on the case where something else entirely diferent to the evidence and even though he no proof this person actually exists and has any evidence he believe what he was told as gospel because it matches how he feels.

  6. Nick 6

    Soper is horrendous to listen to on the radio.

    • Sanctuary 7.1

      I loved his bared faced lie that the previous government was on top of the problem, before pivoting to defend the constant demands for savings to be raked off as a dividend for tax cuts for the rich.

        • Gabby

          How on earth did Croaker Coleman keep that little pile of decay under wraps for 9 years.

          • joe90

            Fiscal restraint.

            Things like stachybotrys are out of sight, out of mind, and budget shortfalls mean deferred spending, until someone decides to spend a little and there it is, in plain sight.

            • Gabby

              But the DHB must’ve known about it, but for some reason haven’t gone public til now.

              • jcuknz

                Obviously to me that if they had they would have been out of the job.
                They were told to stay in budget or else I’m sure … if not told then they surmised that and surely Coleman wasn’t MoH for the whole time the decay was going on …. untreated timber that a government let be used on the advice of the industry …. GHU

  7. Ffloyd 8

    I wonder if stuff will headline tomorrow with’Opposition Leader denies Nationals responsibility for Middlemore Hospitals ruin’. As reported just now on RNZ. Apparently Coleman knew but didn’t know specifics. Meh..

    • Pete 8.1

      Simon Bridges came across like a little twerp, chirping “Show us the money, show us the money.”

      He is assembling chapters of fuckwittery so that when it is said, “We didn’t plan on having to spend a $billion (or whatever) on Middlemore”, he will go full noise about poor planning, shelving other plans to pay for it, etc., etc.

      Knowing that a crescendo of chirping from the choir of other fuckwits on Kiwiblog and other places will be roused to full voice.

    • gsays 8.2

      Perhaps Coleman’s retirement was another example of the reptilian approach to politics that national party practices.

      Coleman had to go as he would have been a festering albatross around the neck of the party.

      • JC 8.2.1

        Not only was Coleman a festering Albatross about the “party” but also the NZ public!

  8. Ffloyd 9

    Maybe Si needs to be asked for the total amount overall of the dividends that English demanded from Housing Corp. Leaving them in dire financial straits. But hey! We got a surplus.

    • patricia bremner 10.1

      That is brilliant.

      • Ed 10.1.1

        Best cartoonist in NZ.
        He got fired from the Herald because of his criticism of Israel. The Zionist lobby in NZ is very strong.

        Our 2nd best – Sharon Murdoch

        Worst – Al Nesbit

  9. adam 11

    Turkey is now killing European nationals, and threatening other countries it is supposedly allied with in NATO. The Turkish state is no longer a civil entity, what was the old phrase, a state in support of head choppers. Or a terrorist state. How devilish that it is a western allie.



  10. mac1 12

    “National’s leader is refusing to let the Government off easy over the Radio New Zealand meeting scandal, saying the Labour/NZ First coalition looks like an “extended family reunion gone wrong”.

    This is the same leader who says that he left the country in great shape financially, but couldn’t find the dosh to fix Middlemore. Now he says, show us the money.

    Either the economy is in great shape as left to us by National so we can continue their good work and repair the damage; or, it’s in poor shape as left by their financial mismanagement.

    Or has it all changed in four months, Simon?

    This is the same leader whose extended family are leaving home having trashed the joint- Coleman from Health, and Joyce from Finance.

    To be joined by other family members soon? At a cost of how much per by-election?

    And lest we forget.

    “Nationals first term in office was a good one… mispaying teachers with Novopay, GST increases when they said they wouldn’t, ministers using tax payers’ money for personal trips and an MP using identity of a dead baby.”

    • patricia bremner 12.1

      You forgot to mention Key and English and Barclay. So far 5 have left. Leaving Smith Bennett Brownlee and David Carter out of the” Horrid” group still standing.

    • veutoviper 12.2

      At a cost of how much per by-election?

      This is usually quoted at about $1 million per by election.

      https://www.parliament.nz/en/visit-and-learn/parliament-in-election-year/saying-bye-without-a-by-election/ – provides a good explanation of by-elections, with the only mention of actual costs being the following para:

      Unnecessary cost is the main reason for avoiding a by-election in the six months before a general election. In recent years the average cost of a by-election was $773,500. To hold individual elections in Helensville and New Lynn may have cost taxpayers upwards of $1.4 million.

      This is also interesting re numbers of and costs of by-elections in the last three years of the National govt.

      [Ssssshhh – not $11 million as mentioned about 2/3 down in the “Doofus of the Week – Easter 2018 Edition” post. I think MickySavage hit the ‘1’ button twice in error. ]

      • veutoviper 12.2.1

        For other OCD political nerds, Wikipedia has a full list of all parliamentary by-elections held in NZ since 1853.


        WOW! During the first 50 years to 1903, there were massive numbers of by-elections. How on earth did Parliament operate at all?

      • mac1 12.2.2

        “hit the ‘1’ button twice in error.”

        I think that’s how fiscal holes a la Joyce develop….

        And a little historical memory button just got pressed.

        “During the 1928 election, Joseph Ward, leading the Liberal Opposition, promised to borrow a huge £70 million. What exactly he meant is unclear, for even his biographer could not sort it out – he seems to have misread his speech notes. In any case, he did not know that New Zealand was already in deep borrowing difficulties and that the Reform Government had apparently secretly promised the London market to stop borrowing for a while.”

        What happens when Tory governments don’t reveal all before elections.

        Then came the Great Depression.

  11. mac1 13


    A union explains why we need unions.

    There is a driver shortage. Bus drivers are not on the skills shortage list for migrant entry. So, there are enough skilled drivers. It’s a question of pay, and profit.

    Instead of addressing the issue of bus drivers getting poor pay for long hours, the company’s reaction is to try and import labour who I bet won’t get paid properly.

    If Ritchie’s needed new senior managers I bet they’d pay the going rate for executives. Why not for drivers, too?

    • patricia bremner 13.1

      Good question. Good post. This type of undermining workers has to stop.
      A continual spiral to the bottom when combined with rewritten contracts!!

    • Bill 13.2

      Don’t forget the number of over 65s also employed to drive buses. They already have their pension, and often look on the job as “something to do” (fair enough) and, crucially for bosses, they don’t have to figure out how to live off the wage provided.

      • mac1 13.2.1

        Sometimes its more than something to do, but there may still be mortgage payments, children or grand-children to look after, or a top-up to the income. The drivers’ pay and the pension are all taxed of course.

        Some monetary pressures last past 65+. I am about to contribute to my daughter’s wedding.for example. Family need financial help. Household maintenance costs just as much, even with Grey Power discounts, rates, insurance the same.

        Again, I’d presume to guess that such drivers are probably part-time and non-unionised. They are thus more vulnerable to low wage offers, and far less employable as age precludes more activities and hours worked.

        So, Bill, you’re right- “crucially for bosses” is a good point.

        • adam

          The bosses are assholes exploiting people.

          That said, it’s because we have a economic system built on exploitation.

  12. Kay 14

    Well that was interesting. Stepped off the bus on the way to an appointment this morning and nearly collided with my freshly minted Labour Electorate MP. (Ironically, outside the local WINZ office, although thankfully that wasn’t my destination). Obviously I couldn’t resist raising the Accommodation Supplement issue with him so boy did he hear all about it, as restrained as I could be…

    He genuinely had no idea that was happening and I have to believe him on that one, being new to Central Govt, and he does seem very sincere in wanting to find out more, giving me his card and asking me to contact his office and make and appointment. Not that I have any faith he can change the system, but I’ll do it- at the very least, Backbenchers should be informed about these things and there’s a lot of beneficiaries/low income people in his electorate.

    • weka 14.1

      That is bloody interesting. Maybe your idea of doing a mass letter campaign out to all the govt MPs is a good one. Even just awareness raising.

      • Kay 14.1.1

        Yes I thought so. Email just sent to make an appointment so I shall keep you updated.
        I strongly suspect except for the people high up who are involved with budgets that the majority of MPs really don’t have a clue, for the simple reason they don’t need to, and it doesn’t affect them. So obviously they need educating.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Total agreement Kay. I have long suspected that many if not most MPs and Ministers are mushrooms.

          I am positively green….oh for such an opportunity.

          Fill your boots!!!

  13. greywarshark 15

    Tax who pays the biggest proportion from their income and assets?
    As the tax working group examines our system, well we hope, these points are pertinent and I wish that government and Treasury could be penitent about the way that egregious taxes fall on the struggling and poor.


    Duncan Greive from The Spinoff wrote an interesting article which is part of a series apparently.
    Commenting on the Rich List candidates which appear in the NBR’s annual count:
    Surprisingly often, though, their impact on New Zealand is relatively muted. As Liam Dann noted last year, New Zealand’s richest man, Graeme Hart, has much of his $13.6bn fortune tied to his multinational packaging group. Its outlook and operations are global. The same goes for a number of our wealthiest, from the secretive emerging markets investor Richard Chandler, to African property developer Stephen Jennings, to the extreme example of tech entrepreneur Peter Thiel, who appears to have largely been a wealth drain through his sharp exploitation of our government venture funds.

    The point is that while the individual stories of this wealth are often fascinating, and the data useful, the impact of the Rich List on the rest of us is much less clear. After all, what use is all that wealth to ordinary New Zealanders? Its most tangible benefit is where a portion of it is redistributed through the tax system. And yet for a variety of reasons the link between wealth and tax is not always a strong one.

    Which brings us to Tax Heroes. It’s a project which attempts to invert the Rich List, in many ways. To ask not what this country has done for them, but what they have done for this country. I wanted to know who, in any given year, paid the most tax.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1

      Invent a game with laser beams and rules that encourage their use. Act all surprised when players use them.

      I guess they shouldn’t add laser beams to traffic lights then 😉

  14. CHCOff 17

    The New Zealand roading system wasn’t built to cope with the current population numbers due to the ‘blow out’ immigration policies ( to start with, NZ is not Europe with it’s massive networks of highways etc).

    Secondly, National ramming through changes to the road rules to match up with more common global system, has meant in practise that the well long standing, understood and functioning road rules in the New Zealand public’s consciousness has been replaced by an imprecise more situational by situational approach, which along with the increase in population from other cultures, particularly those from countries which have a more helter skelter city road culture, has resulted in open slather on the roads, turning them into abit of a death trap.

    Apart from re-building our road system grids to something like European standards which is what abit of fore thought would have realised current approach to associated policy areas would require…..the only option really is to have road medium barriers and signs, in all high risk stretches and cornering areas.

  15. R.P McMurphy 18

    listened to mike foreskin poormouth clarke gayford on the radio. if anyone is to blame for the state of new zeland it is this horrible little squib hosking dribbling bile, day after day night after night and then the kiwi capons baying like the ball less bastards they are on skwarbak radio. well their time has come. suck it up.

  16. Wei 19

    This is unbelievable:

    “PM Jacinda Ardern’s Point Chevalier home sold to ‘nice Kiwi family'”

    Obviously ‘nice kiwi family’ is a code word for white, or at least non-Asian

    Real Estate salesperson Lawrence von Sturmer:

    “We have a couple of thousand people on our database, so we picked out the ones we thought were the best buyers for it.”

    Obviously the ones with obviously non-Chinese or non-Asian names. I understand there are laws prohibiting racially discriminatory practice in commercial transactions. It would be interesting to look at Mr von Sturmer’s list.

    And if Jacinda gave instructions to exclude buyers based on ethnicity or race, that would be utterly outrageous —but sadly, not surprising coming from the populist trumpist NZ left.


    • Bill 19.1

      Wei. Racism is very much alive and well in NZ. But those are really fucking long bows you’re drawing.

      “Nice Kiwi family” could be any number of quite obnoxious, dull, grey or sickenly conservative things. Mr von Strumer could even have been talking about an immigrant family that have enthusiastically adopted “the Kiwi way” (whatever that might be when it’s at home 😉 )

      • Wei 19.1.1

        Hi Bill

        “Mr von Strumer could even have been talking about an immigrant family that have enthusiastically adopted “the Kiwi way””

        I’m guessing not – Mr Strumer was obviously trying to underline a racially loaded point.

        Interestingly he also said:
        “We have a couple of thousand people on our database, so we picked out the ones we thought were the best buyers for it.”

        I assume this was not based on excluding those whose names sounded ‘chinese’ or ‘asian’, as I believe there are laws strictly prohibiting racially discriminatory practices in commercial transactions of any kind (naturally I’m not talking of offshore buyers)

        It would be interesting to understand on what criteria Mr Strumer ‘picked out the ones’ he thought ‘were the best buyers for it’

        It is probably unlikely that this would ever rise to the level that anything could ever be proven, and logically Mr von Strumer’s comments do not exclude “an immigrant family that have enthusiastically adopted “the Kiwi way””

        Of course it is not just the content of what is said, it is how one understands what is being said will be interpreted in the current social and political context. It is obvious that Ardern is trying to milk a bit of political capital here – i’m guessing she is aware of and approves the article.

        Many people reading the article will get the drift –that this PM is a racist populist trumpist leader at heart. I believe she will end up to be deeply damaging to the NZ left – platitiudes and virtue signalling overlaying deep incompetence will only get her so far before the wheels start to fall off

        • Bill

          Sure – “nice Kiwi family” is a kind of signpost that “Jaccinda’s on our side”. Whatever that might mean. And you’re take is among a range of possibilities.

          Can’t see much damage being done to the NZ left by any of it though, whatever the correct take might be, because the left in NZ (the parliamentary left) has been well beyond repair for a few years now.

          • Wei

            “Jacinda’s on our side’ against those rapacious asians.

            Agree with your point about the state of the NZ left – it’s been adrift ever since Helen Clark departed the scene.

            Will be interesting to see how Mr Real Estate salesperson Lawrence von Sturmer “picked out the ones we thought were the best buyers for it.”

            Would be really interesting to see that list of suitable buyers.

            If it is racially exclusionary, and the PM was cognizant of this (how could she not be), it would make for some extraordinary political theatre.

        • arkie

          Many people reading the article will get the drift – that this PM is a racist populist trumpist leader at heart

          Obvious concern troll obviously overplays its hand.


        • Carolyn_Nth

          It was the estate agent’s wording not Ardern or Gayford’s according to NZ Herald:

          “We have a couple of thousand people on our database, so we picked out the ones we thought were the best buyers for it.”

          The buyers were a “nice Kiwi family,” von Sturmer said.

          “As much of Point Chev is.

          “We do a lot of business in the area, we know the buyers really well and we can quite easily match up buyers with houses without doing that full marketing if that’s what the owners are after.”

          The ethnic make up of Pt Chev residents according to the 2013 census differ according to whether it’s south, east or west of the borough.

          West and East Pt Chev residents are overwhelmingly European.

          South Pt Chev is 58.6% European; 21.6% Asian; 16.4% Pacific people; 11.6% Maori.

          • Wei

            Sure it was the agent’s wording. But Ardern of course is not unaware of this, and will obviously be enjoying the political capital from it.

            She also asked the agent to sell only to a pre-selected group of interested buyers

            Were the pre-selected buyers exclusively or almost all Europeans?

            If so there is a good chance the list was arrived at racially (even if foreign buyers were excluded)

            If so was Ardern aware of this?

            Very likely. If not she as as dumb as rocks .

            If she knew then that makes things even more interesting

            So I’m very curious about the names of people who were on that list.

            • joe90

              She also asked the agent to sell only to a pre-selected group of interested buyers

              How do you know this?

              • Wei

                Read the article

                • joe90

                  Best you cite the bit that says Ardern asked the agent to sell only to a pre-selected group of interested buyers.

                • mac1

                  An article written by Susan Edmunds says that “the agency had looked into its database of buyers and found people who would be suitable.” No mention of an instruction from the seller.

                  Imagine the ‘voyeur’ element of people wanting to see the PM’s for sale house. A sound reason for not listing it on the open market.

                  I consulted a realtor on whether it is practice in the industry to not go to open homes, but rather rely on known clients. It is a practice.

                  The other claim that Wei makes about the use of the word ‘nice’ as somehow having racist overtones.

                  The article mentioned above had the real estate agent using that word two times- “nice neighbourhood,” the sellers were “really nice”- and Wei’s reporting of “nice Kiwi family” is a third example of his possible overuse of the word.

                  It is an over-used and innocuous word in Kiwi parlance.

            • Anne

              That’s a load of drivel Wei.

              She’s the PM for God’s sake and she’s had rather more important matters to attend to, so she understandably left it in the hands of an estate agent to handle the sale as he/she saw fit. Simple as that.

              It’s going well beyond a joke when a Labour P.M. can’t even sell her home without attempts being made to introduce pathetic conspiratorial motives.

              If you were in her shoes you would be doing exactly the same thing for the same reason… running the country is a 24/7 job.

              • Wei

                “running the country is a 24/7 job.”

                So she has time for photoshoots for Women’s Weekly and Vogue and getting pregnant (without telling anyone before the voting)?

                [See moderation note below]

                • bwaghorn

                  ” (without telling anyone before the voting)?”

                  and there it is weis true colours shine through ,

                  [see moderation note below]

                • Anne

                  Ahhh… so you’re a pathetic little shit.

                  Ignore the rw idiot folks!

                  [see moderation note below]

            • Gabby

              Who put the agent up to it wei and… whyi?

              [see moderation note below]

            • Gabby

              Can’t asians be a nice kiwi family wei? If not why not?

            • Bill

              Just came back to this.

              And whatever the merits or otherwise of the original comment, it’s all getting far too far into nasty garbage now.

              End the exchange before someone gets a ban.

              And yes, that should be seen as a blanket moderation note.

              • Anne

                “She has time for photoshoots for Women’s Weekly and Vogue and getting pregnant (without telling anyone before the voting)?”

                Can’t get nastier, sexist and more misogynistic than that. Any woman is going to take deep offence.

                I was just returning what he dished out but will be saying no more.

                • Wei


                  My comments were not directed against any particular person on this website, but an entirely legitimate comment on a politician. Politicians are open to critique and indeed expect it.

                  However, because I criticize Ardern, you take personal offense and use that as an excuse to launch a personal attack on me???? What sort of logic is that? Are you related to her or something? Or perhaps her self-annointed guardian angel?

                  As for accusing me of being ‘sexist’ and ‘misogynistic’, again, huh???????????

              • RedLogix

                Well Bill … it’s up to you.

            • patricia bremner

              Jacinda doesn’t have a racist bone in her body
              She’s from the Islands and Murupara. What is your beef?
              You are making something from nothing.
              Real estate agents burbling on. Get a life.

              • Wei

                She’s a dog whistling populist and a number of commentators have picked up on this. When I’m bored and not so busy will post the links.

                She rode a populist wave and sold out to the most racist politician in the house for the baubles of office.

                I also find it strange how we have all these people popping up mushrooms taking personal affront at some expressed home truths about our pregnant fairy princess.

                As for ‘she’s from the islands’, what????? Do you mean her Dad was, and still is the colonial administrator of Niue?

                And how do you know she doesn’t have a racist bone in her body —you know her personally?

    • indiana 19.2

      Will any CGT be voluntarily paid…by the vendor?

    • savenz 19.3

      ok now not allowed by some to call someone a nice kiwi family, because those with an active imagination thinks its racially motivated. Pleeeeeze…..

      Maybe this is the next story after the Clare Curren coffee date to keep out the real news….

    • savenz 19.4

      Couple denied home because they weren’t ‘Asian’ or ‘Chinese’


      • Wei 19.4.1

        So what? What’s the point of your comment? If racial discrimination in this case is proven then there should be consequences, as for the case I have raised. Regardless of who is discriminating against who, and regardless of the ethnicity of the person doing the discriminating and the party who is being discriminated against.

        • savenz

          Saying Nice kiwi family is generally not considered a racial slur, but there is racism about, such as the article I linked too and it might not be in the direction you are thinking… that’s my point.

  17. mary_a 20

    National and its lapdog msm are on a roll with the Curran/Hirschfeld saga. A shallow and obvious attempt to discredit the present government, when it knows it needs to answer some serious questions itself!

    Middlemore hospital is proving to be a health and safety hazard through neglect of the public health system by the previous National government. Yet this massive public health failure barely gets a mention in media, when it should be a top priority news item, with some scrutiny taking place as to how and why lack of proper maintenance and repair was allowed to reach its present state of neglect.

    Despite not being elected government, the opposition is dangerously casting an odious and deceitful influence on NZ still, using its powerful tool msm to manipulate public perception, in favour of National. A situation in need of monitoring I think.

  18. savenz 21

    Another company after cheap migrant labour


    Whose paying for the housing, schools, roads, infrastructure, hospitals, doctors, midwives… etc etc…

    There should be a requirement, every person coming in to NZ to settle or to provide labour – the company has to provide the above requirements BEFORE the person comes into the country – because there are only so many hospitals and roads and houses and until we actually see new ones in the flesh (not promises of them in the future) then clearly those who are already working and living in NZ need the resources available until there are clearly more there ….

    The National government has let every company worker in but then expects the NZ taxpayers to somehow provide 100,000’s of extra services that are now needed which apart from prisons (also full to brink) their seems little provisioning for… and in many cases for what, it’s crazy, nobody in the Western world would break down their social services voluntarily… but I guess if you want to do that… to privatise… it makes sense of a sort…

    • Wei 21.1

      Agree with most of what you say.

      However, the overarching issue is why are people paid so little in some parts of the world and so much in other parts, for simply doing the same amount of work?

      That is what ultimately drives migration.

      The world’s economic system is so utterly distorted and unjust, a legacy of Western imperialism, and it is natural that people will flow to those parts of the world where the wealth is concentrated.

      • Keepcalmcarryon 21.1.1

        Because in contrast Chinese and Japanese imperial power was so just.
        Its natural for people to want to go to nations where wealth is concentrated, it’s just not their right.

        • Wei

          Don’t know why you bring up the Japanese—-but actually it reinforces my point. The number of Japanese immigrants we receive is miniscule – because the Japanese are rich and part of the first world —rewarded for being a US lackey.

          People, aside from refugees, flow to Western countries because an hour of labour in these parts of the world fetches so much more than an hour of labour from whence they came.

          Western wealth was accumulated over several centuries, on the backs of Asians and Africans. New Zealand was the pitbull of British and US imperialism and benefited enormously from being part of the British empire, willingly taking part in wars of aggression against Koreans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Afghans, and even supported Britain and France’s aggression against the Egyptians in 1956.

          On the back of this support of British and US imperialism, NZ became the richest country in the world, until in the 1970s the UK left for the common market.

          “Its natural for people to want to go to nations where wealth is concentrated, it’s just not their right.”

          Certainly it is not their legal right, but certainly there is a moral right. Non-western people moving to Western countries is simply about reclaiming stolen wealth.

          • Keepcalmcarryon

            there is no moral right to live in another’s country to accumulate wealth. New Zealand suffered as a vassal state of empire like all the others, it’s indigenous people ripped off, it’s Kauri timber logged, it’s men sent to war.
            Interesting now how it’s the Chinese taking our swamp kauri , how the worm turns eh.

            • Wei

              “New Zealand suffered as a vassal state of empire like all the others, it’s indigenous people ripped off, it’s Kauri timber logged, it’s men sent to war.”

              Your comment is absurd. Yes, the indigenous people were ripped off, but New Zealand’s wealth is a legacy of it being a part of the imperialist camp.
              Hardly a vassal state, white New Zealanders considered themselves an integral part of the British empire and considered themselves British for a very long time. Indeed New Zealanders of just a generation ago referred to the UK as ‘home’, and had to have autonomy almost forced on them, being extremely reluctant to adopt the 1947 Westminster agreement.

              As for ‘it’s men sent to war’ —they were not forced to go. New Zealanders willingly participated in those wars because they identified themselves as British and so were fighting for themselves. “Where she (i.e. Britain) goes, we go” – at least that particular conflict, i.e. WWII was a just conflict – the only just conflict of New Zealand;s many overseas excursions.

              “Interesting now how it’s the Chinese taking our swamp kauri”
              Obviously it is some New Zealander selling it to them —they are therefore ‘buying’ the kauri, not simply ‘taking’ it. And if New Zealanders refused to sell the Kauri, the Chinese would not send in troops to force the sale.

              This is completely unlike what the Brits and other Western nations did to China – when China did not want to trade tea for opium they were invaded and forced at gunpoint to legalize and conduct the trade.Up until 1943, under extraterritoriality , British people could kill Chinese in China with utter impunity and get away scott free, not being held to the laws of China.

              “there is no moral right to live in another’s country to accumulate wealth.”

              There is no moral right for a country to live off the wealth that was gained from the exploitation of other people, and not to expect those people to demand their fair share of the world’s resources.

              • Keepcalmcarryon

                I’m happy for new Zealand not to exploit cheap immigrant labour.
                How’s that invasion of Tibet treating you?
                Harvested any organs lately? There is no exploitation in China.
                Mongol imperialism was also benign.

                [lprent: Perhaps you should ease off on the flamewar provocations before I get irritated and decide to clean them up in the interests of moderator workloads.. ]

                • Wei

                  Unfortunately for many of your ilk, you don’t get to call the shots anymore. If Asians or Africans piss you off you can’t just bomb them or shoot them with the same sort of impunity that you use to do.

                  That’s just tough for people like you – the tectonic shift in power from the West to the East. Yet if you opt out of it, you know, in your bones, that New Zealand would be reduced to a South Pacific economic swamp.

                  So you may hate these yellows who are starting to level the playing field a bit. But you know you also need them. So you wail and gnash your teeth and shake your first with impunity at the inexorable and ultimately just change in the world order – that’s just too funny!

      • savenz 21.1.2

        That is why there are rules about immigration, to stop the race to the bottom. NZ can’t make other countries pay higher wages, but we can vote for our NZ government to stop us sinking into the third world by for example spending $50 million on housing homeless in 1 room hotels… because someones idea was to make NZ the third highest population growth in the world per capita, based on stupidity like arguing that 100 worker are needed to drive buses at minimum wages when there are hundreds of thousands of unemployed in NZ and no houses for them to live in, let alone money for more infrastructure like hospitals and transport… Funny enough, the Natz did commission more prisons though, I wonder why….

        • Wei

          “NZ can’t make other countries pay higher wages”

          That’s a ridiculous comment. Perhaps other countries simply cannot pay higher wages, because their respective GDP per capita is way way lower than New Zealand’s?

          New Zealand’s current problems have little to do with immigration – the highest rates of immigration per capita occurred in the 19th Century, and also the post war decades when we received hundreds of thousands of UK and European migrants.

          • Keepcalmcarryon

            Watch this person and learn people, to this poster economic migration is people coming to take what’s theirs.
            This is what you get when you open your door too easily. Or give away our water and other resources.
            They will take all day long.

            • Wei

              Whose taking? Whose ‘giving away’ what?

              Don’t the Chinese pay for what they ‘take’?

              After all for property, they were apparently paying top dollar. And if the Chinese are told to go away, they will do so politely and quietly – and not send in gunboats and shell Wellington and kill hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders to get their own way – unlike what the British did to them.

              It is the Anglo Saxon tribe who have a nasty habit of killing those who get in the way of national and personal enrichment. And they hardly paid top dollar for land they took off the Maoris and Aborigines and Native Americans – often they just drove people off it and outright confiscated the land.

            • savenz

              @ Keepcalmcarryon – +1 Natz have purposely decided to concentrate on bringing in people from countries without a welfare system or in many cases democracy for a reason and it’s working.

              Years ago we had some friends who migrated here from former Yugoslavia. We asked them how did Milošević and atrocities happen in the middle of Europe. Their view was that they did not have democracy in Yugoslavia and were not used to thinking for themselves. They blindly followed their government or their religion.

              As NZ gets more migrants who grew up with undemocratic systems and systemic injustice and corruption, it will percolate into NZ society to our detriment as a society.

              That is where NZ is going. Not just race to a bottom with conditions like housing and pollution, but also culturally, just being beaten down with injustice and media propaganda and accepting injustice as a given – just like in other countries that the Natz (and maybe Labour) admire for their strong authoritarian ways, the government is always right and human rights are just lip service to have, but profits and trade is more important.

        • Wei

          “to stop the race to the bottom”

          Best way to stop this “race to the bottom” is for the West to pay its fair share for the products it received from third world countries.

          So when you buy something from the warehouse, say, we should all make a donation to match the price we would have paid if the the workers who assembled the product had been paid the same as what workers get here.

          That is the best way to keep poor third world people where they are.

          • savenz

            @ Wei “West to pay its fair share for the products it received from third world countries”

            …. I think that relies on having a government that redistribute the wealth by having higher wages for their workers…. otherwise the profits seem to be being held at the top elite in the country they are working in…

            China is full of millionaires and billionaires for example, it’s a very rich country, but it’s that trickle down theory not working again.

  19. Anne 22

    I hope I’m wrong but it looks like Clare Curran might have dropped herself in it again.

    It seems she left a ‘voicemail’ message for Richard Griffin suggesting that if he couldn’t attend a Select Committee last Thursday she had been advised that a letter containing the correction would suffice. He responded in kind to say that he was planning to attend the following Thursday and if she had a problem with that to let him know. She didn’t reply and as a result she has left herself open to accusations that she was trying to stop him from attending the select committee.

    Ok, he only asked her to respond if she wasn’t happy, but anyone with a sense of astuteness would still have responded to advise… Yes, I’m quite happy. I was just letting you know if it was going to be difficult a letter would suffice…



  20. patricia bremner 23

    Rejoice!! Keating has resigned.

  21. patricia bremner 24

    What a lot of crud!!!

  22. Newshub Thats the way Mike Mc Roberts Interviewing Maoris staying in Australia I thought of going over there but I cannot get to far from my Maunga Awa and Tangata.
    Many thanks to the Black Caps win over Britain ka pai e hoa its awesome to see all the Team make there contributions to the win back in the day we relied on one or two players good team effort for this win .
    ka kite ano

    • eco maori 25.1

      I.m going to tau toko The Crowd Goes Wild Wairangi and James Mulls eye still looks a bit wonky .
      Wairangi what do you think about taking the campervan to Te Tai Rawhiti plenty of kai mona wild pig and deer in Ngati Porou whenua I got a tangi and the unavailing of Te Carvings at Poki tangi at Te Horo this weekend .Well I say Joesph could have won Ka kite ano

      • eco maori 25.1.1

        Some tangata whanue are that Naive they believe everything te namu onepu tell them when they should no that te namu onepu just want to destroy ECO MAORI anyway they can they just want to suppress Maori or any race that is not like them this is fact .Ana to kai ka kite ano

        • eco maori

          We have to have a fuel tax of nine cents a ltr to start OUR journey to a carbon neutral economy. Big oil barons will sqeel like a kuni kuni and say te sky is going to fall on our heads YEA RIGHT . If shonky had of looked after the mokopunas future first instead of his wealth m8 and continued the journey Helen Clark started to introduce renewable energy well the tax would be two cents a ltr .
          So people we can thank shonky for the tax being nine cents .
          Many thanks for the Coalition Goverment for restarting this journey to a bright prosperous future for all Ka pai Ka kite ano

          • eco maori

            Newshub Mark If I was New Zealand Cricket I would start recruiting young brown players from school Te Samoans love Cricket they have there own version of the game get some young big brown men an we will start being more dominant World Cricket .
            There you go Duncan the 70 klm thing was a right wing spin attack on the Government Duncan you don’t no the word respect you obviously don’t GIVE the Ladies the respect they deserve the less carbon we use the better .The fuel tax how do the poor cope well they buy a second hand electric car you can get a good one for $15000 to $20000 thats what I’m going to do you see there are many ways to solve problems .
            Amanda I’m off to the place were I was born this weekend have a few hongi and a feed and see the new Carvings to my Marae and send a m8 whano member to his resting place he is only 5 years older than me and we have other cultures making 100 one of my elderly clients is a 100 another is 95 its a shame that Tangata whenua are dieting so young 55 I wonder why???????????.
            Kia Kaha Tangata Ka kite ano

  23. I expect the NZF MP to support Labour and the Greens on this policy of reforming the
    Parole Act of shonkys 2002 this Act affects Maori mostly it was a sham and should be cast in the history books as a big mistake along with the people who supported IT
    heres the link.


  24. eco maori 28

    Some one is stuffing with my computer here’s the song

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