web analytics

Open mike 03/08/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 3rd, 2020 - 88 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

88 comments on “Open mike 03/08/2020 ”

  1. Dennis Frank 1

    You may think Biden is beating Trump, but more likely the pandemic is beating him – with considerable help from himself.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300071961/donald-trumps-campaign-in-crisis-aides-attempt-lastminute-reset

    "Why don't I have a high approval rating?" Trump asked before answering himself: "It can only be my personality. That's all."

    Shoulda read Shakespeare. Character flaws are the historical explanation for self-defeats. Personality is just the mask a character wears.

    Trump continued to express support for the doctor, Stella Immanuel, after a reporter informed him she had also claimed alien DNA is used in medical treatments. When pressed, he abruptly ended the news briefing and walked away.

    So them Roswell cadavers are still coming in useful, eh? The masterful way Trump refused to yield to the temptation to expand on the topic was impressive though.

    One top Biden campaign official acknowledged the Democratic campaign strategy is often to stay out of the news when Trump's behaviour is particularly inflammatory… "It is absolutely a strategic decision," said a Biden official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal campaign tactics. "We don't let him pull us off of our message and we don't play his game."

    I wonder if the Dems will ever decide to release their message to the media? It seems that Labour here are copying their Brer Fox strategy, so it must be effective…

    • Ad 1.1

      With Trump's likely defeat, the interesting question is how and at what speed to recover from Trumpism and from the total wreckage that the US will start off in 2021?

      A couple of good thinkers have a go at what a post-Trump reconstruction effort could start out here, comparing it to Americas after the Civil War, the Depression, and World War 2:

      https://www.salon.com/2020/08/01/on-the-de-trumpification-of-america-it-definitely-wont-be-easy-but-it-must-be-done/

      And of course, while Trumpism has made the Covid-19 ocial and economic crisis worse, New Zealand is in need of the same thorough reconstruction here as well.

      • Dennis Frank 1.1.1

        From your linked article, this:

        Foreign Policy in Focus editor John Feffer… writes that "Trumpism — which lies at the intersections of racial and sexual anxiety, hatred of government and the expert class, and opposition to cosmopolitan internationalism — is not so easily rooted out." In part, that's because it's "a political chimera with the head of an establishment machine and the body of a radical social movement."

        Radical conservatives rebelling against a conservative establishment, led by a pillar of that establishment – such an unlikely scenario that when I first reported it here four years ago there was a chorus of scoffing and denial.

        Understandable, since most commentators here seem mainstream to me. Reluctance to admit that the gfc was a coldly calculated culling of the American middle class because of the spectre that it might happen here, perhaps. After all, the middle class had been the engine of social progress for two centuries! Closing down that vital swathe of mainstreamers was genuinely hard to believe.

        Anyway, the grievance of survivors will keep them hostile to the authorities for the rest of their lives, probably. Feffer is being optimistic, even unrealistic, in considering that rooting them out is even possible. And that "racial and sexual anxiety" dimension seems too American for me to render intelligible!

        We next get the usual denial of the design-flaws in representative democracy:

        "Pathocracy is the situation where dangerously disordered personalities predominate in positions of power." Hughes said. "Such individuals' propensity for violence and greed, their incapacity for basic human empathy and their disordered perception and cognition, which renders them unable to ameliorate their distorted worldviews with reality and reason, mark them out as a danger to others." We may not be a full-blown pathocracy yet, Hughes and Mika agree, but we're headed in that direction.

        Their system selects such reps due to the zeitgeist effect, right? Spit the dummy, admit it then. Hughes continues with "nations seldom learn from their descent into pathocracy". Well, a nation could facilitate learning from traumatic democracy if political psychologists explain the cause & effect relations in the media, eh? But they are still hiding. Hughes is partially qualified (https://disorderedworld.com/about/) and gives it a reasonable go.

        The ideas Hughes cited were that "inequality is good," that "religious freedom [so-called] trumps public good," that "in the Civil War, the wrong side won," the myth of "American exceptionalism," i.e., "the idea that the U.S. is a unique, morally-superior civilization destined to guide the world" and "the myth of redemptive violence," meaning "the belief that good can triumph over evil only by means of conflict."

        These can all be seen as different forms of narcissistic fantasy and, more specifically, collective narcissistic fantasy. The more we cling to such fantasies, the more our shadow grows.

        Jung used the shadow as a dimension in the personal subconscious in his therapy but the collective shadow has subsequently been integrated: https://www.thesap.org.uk/resources/articles-on-jungian-psychology-2/about-analysis-and-therapy/the-shadow/

        Hughes sees the beginnings of a solution. "Citizens' assemblies, such as have been put in place in countries such as the UK, France and Ireland, are one possible means of re-establishing practices of democracy which can heal divisions and undermine the appeal of dangerous demagogic leaders," he said.

        In his native Ireland, that process played a crucial role in repealing the constitutional prohibition on abortion, as well as advancing a set of climate-change recommendations, all passed by majorities of at least 80%, which helped inspire a wave of climate-change citizens' assemblies across Europe and elsewhere over the past year.

        Good news, and symptomatic of the natural resilience in humanity. Let's hope this group psychodynamic gets traction in the USA soon.

      • mauī 1.1.2

        I know what'll work.. Once the closest thing to a change agent is out of the way, put an old guard incapacitated establishment neoliberal in charge. Socialist nirvana here we come!

      • AB 1.1.3

        This description of Trumpism is very good, though not original: "a political chimera with the head of an establishment machine and the body of a radical social movement." Similar things have been said in various quarters for a while.

        The observation that the body of the "radical social movement" is not totally irredeemable or deplorable is also good, though it acknowledges that this body has serious ingrained issues of racism, exceptionalism etc.

        The overall drift however seems to be that this radical body needs to be calmed down and put back in touch with democratic values, and that inequality reduction should be part of that settling process. It seems an inadequate response and unlikely to succeed – compared to the possibility of that radical body being attached to a different head that has deeply moral and humanist values, such as whatever succeeds the Sanders movement.

  2. Tricledrown 2

    Labour is practicing the same strategy here as National continue to flounder.

    Goldsmith on RNZ completely out of his depth.

    The only policy he offered was for people to cash in Kiwisaver or redundancy money and tax credits to set up a business.

    Most of these people will have no business experience, Then 58% of small businesses fail in there first year 70% after 2 years.In these times of the biggest economic shock in modern history it is foolish to even contemplate setting up a business especially without any experience.
    Film Flam economic policy;

    Hollow promise from Hollow man .

    Desperately out of his depth.

    • tc 2.1

      Goldsmith's lived a life in the trough. The hardly hitting books, following blinky about etc there's zero commercial accumen….unless you count tranzrail.

    • I Feel Love 2.2

      I wonder if a party will one day float the idea of us pulling out our KS as a form of unemployment insurance, the "Hardship Withdrawal" of KS is unemployment insurance under another name. The reason KS was set up is because we're so useless at saving, Parties using taking out money out of our super just reinforces the fact of how useless we are at saving.

      • Sacha 2.2.1

        Yes, more of the same. Selfish short-sightedness is deeply ingrained in our national character since the 80s. And if a left-leaning govt builds up a savings vehicle, a subsequent right-leaning govt pillages and undermines it – see ACC and Cullen funds.

      • AB 2.2.2

        They do seem to regard Kiwisaver as a sort of magic money tree that you can keep going back to over and over again. Maybe they are half-aware of how absurd they sound, but can't help themselves. Most likely, they suggest these things because their ideology gives them such a horror of State-led initiatives, that they have to imagine that there's a way out of the Covid hole that is led by the individual brilliance of business-people.

      • Nic the NZer 2.2.3

        You should probably re-evaluate the idea that New Zealanders are behaviourly bad at saving (as a cause of low private savings rates). This is because in GST accounts the identity S-I =G-T + X-M where S-I is the difference between savings rate (including debt repayment) and the investment rate, G-T is the govt budget deficit and X-M is the current account deficit. This relationship is true by accounting so it holds always. One implication is that the private sector doesn't have the space to save while the public sector is saving (e.g the govt is running a budget surplus). Especially so if the trade balance is in deficit.

        This relationship has demonstrable implications for countries savings rates, so countries with high levels of private sector saving tend to run budget deficits as well as vice versa.

        • Pat 2.2.3.1

          sadly that formula is based on a closed National economy…when you have free movement of capital the equation dosnt apply

          • Nic the NZer 2.2.3.1.1

            That is obviously untrue Pat. The part X-M is the foreign sector (as I commented already).

            • Pat 2.2.3.1.1.1

              and yet you contradict yourself with the statement…

              "One implication is that the private sector doesn't have the space to save while the public sector is saving (e.g the govt is running a budget surplus). Especially so if the trade balance is in deficit."

              If the trade balance is in surplus (or there is FDI) then the the space to save is increased…and ipso facto the inverse.

              • Nic the NZer

                Yes, as you have identified the current account can provide the space for saving. There are however reasons to consider this less relevant including that its extremely difficult to influence in an open economy and that all trade balances internationally net to zero.

                Its still basically informative (if a simplification) to consider the trade balance to be what it is and the other two to be the ones being traded off in terms of saving.

                I gather you have conceded that your claim in 2.2.3.1 has been flatly refuted.

                • Pat

                  you gather incorrectly

                  • Nic the NZer

                    Interesting. That relationship follows from how GDP accounts works so you must be saying that GDP accounting is invalid for an open economy.

                    Do tell us when you have finally vanquished the wind mills.

                    • Pat

                      lol…GDP accounting is currently the subject of much derision…and for good reason.

                • Poission

                  So if we have both a current account surplus,and record household savings at present (which we do),we see also the need for the RBNZ to borrow less to fund the current account deficit,and a decreased inflow requirement for overseas capital,would not the government deficit reduce accordingly.

                  • Pat

                    it would depend on the (required) source of that deficit…i.e. whether the deficit is in NZD or FX

                  • Nic the NZer

                    "So if we have both a current account surplus,and record household savings at present (which we do)", then these two add to give the government deficit (G-T) term in the balance, e.g you can always solve for the other term having known the other two terms. If a current account surplus is larger than the savings balance then the government balance will be in surplus (though that's extremely unlikely).

                    Note, you have described both a current account surplus and a current account deficit in the same paragraph. If the country is running a current account surplus then yes its foreign held debt is reducing. On the other hand it doesn't really make sense to think of the RBNZ borrowing to fund the current account. To some extent people overseas may be holding $NZ balances which they could use to make purchases from the New Zealand economy, but more likely they will have invested somewhere so it actually shows up as net foreign ownership of the New Zealand economy. If they do hold onto the $NZ cash (rather than exchanging it, e.g giving it to somebody else, via the FX markets) then they are really just entitling themselves to make purchases from New Zealand later on. That's true if they transform the $NZ cash liability for a $NZ govt bond liability which pays a small interest rate, but still doesn't present any real alternatives when its later repaid for actual use of that money.

                    Also the RBNZ is simply part of the government accounts.

    • Gyles Beckford did a good job of picking Goldsmith up for claiming the low level of government debt in NZ is a legacy of the Key/English junta, when in fact it is the legacy of the Clark/Cullen government.

      • Just Is 3.1.1

        When Key won Govt in 2008 there was Zero Crown debt, by 2011 the country was in recession,this was mainly due to incompetence, introducing Tax cuts regardless of the economic problems, CHCH.

        They blamed the GFC, 3 years later than every other country had recovered.

        Key borrowed $120B to cover the shortfall in Tax income that they had incorrectly estimated, deliberately.

        More than $60B was still owing the new Govt was elected in 2017.

        National have zero Economic Expertise, zero

        • Treetop 3.1.1.1

          I made a comment at 4.1 about Nat billboards. I forgot to mention that wording Better economy is used as well.

          So the Nat tax cuts were paid for in part by those who got them.

          Why did Key borrow for tax cuts when the country could not afford it?

        • Nic the NZer 3.1.1.2

          Unfortunately the narrative your presenting could not possibly be true. This is due to a recession being a fall in GDP and the government budget deficit being a term which adds directly to GDP.

          It is however possible to get hold of the series going into GDP and see that the actual cause of the recession was a large shift towards saving during the 2011 period. The govt deficit was to a large extent caused by that shift.

          https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/m5

          Here is an overview of how to analyse the series. Note some of the parts are not recorded directly in the spreadsheet and must be found from the series given.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances

    • I Feel Love 3.2

      Thanks Sacha, something interesting I picked up there was he wants "certainty & stability" for employers, yet quite happy for employees not to have the same. National still coming off as negative.

      • Sacha 3.2.1

        he wants “certainty & stability” for employers

        Those bold capitalists he represents need the rest of us to underwrite the risk that they claim justifies their greater share of the pie. Pathetic.

        • I Feel Love 3.2.1.1

          He was bemoaning that Govt are putting compliance costs onto business, but if business doesn't pay then who does? Govt? I just thought these free market libertarian types want small, less Govt, yet they want that same Govt to cover business costs.

  3. dv 4

    I see Judes complaining about Natz hoarding being removed, Does she not realise that they have had to removed because of the leadership change(s)!!!

    Duh

    • Treetop 4.1

      I have noticed a lot more 1m x 1m National Party billboards with just writing on them. No doubt billboards with National Party candidates have had to come down. With the selection process in places like Clutha there would be no electorate candidate billboard.

      I would like to know how many billboard changes in the National Party?

      Strong team, more jobs are on some Nat billboards.

      Yeah right! is missing.

    • Chris T 4.2

      Personally never understood the whole hoarding thing.

      I don't even notice them driving round. They kind of just blend in with the real estate signs.

      It is just sanctioned graffiti

      Do some people actually vote for a party based on a photo and slogan?

      Find it odd

      Having said this I have a fairly flat roof and am in Johnsonville so if any political parties want to pay me shitloads to put one on my roof for incoming planes. Just ask!

      Don't care who. It is a highest bidder thing

      yes

      • Muttonbird 4.2.1

        It's important. As you well know many people, by far the majority, don't follow politics as closely as we do. Some will have absolutely no idea who their candidates are. This needs to be advertised and a face put on the name you are going to tick in the polling booth.

        Everyone knows Jacinda Ardern of course but what about the poor National Party? They need to let the country know who their latest leader is. And I'm thinking there might be one more change, at least, in that space before the election…

        • Sacha 4.2.1.1

          As you say, putting a face to the name. They made more sense under FPP where the local electorate contest mattered.

          • greywarshark 4.2.1.1.1

            Chris T That's the innovative thinking that NZ sorely needs.

            And National are indeed offering more jobs – putting up hoardings; they like them because hoarding is their national bent. They hoard the money of workers, and lay it on the ground and drive over it in their expensive conveyances. It's a sort of Sir Walter Raleigh's cloak sort of thing, for them there shall be no puddles and damp.

        • Chris T 4.2.1.2

          True about some people not following it, but what is the point of just having loads of big photos of Key for 9 years every where and a wee photo of the local person some times, or the same thing now with Ardern?

          I think even the thickest know who the PM is, and the ones too thick to get that bit would have trouble using a pen to vote.

          • Incognito 4.2.1.2.1

            Familiarity AKA brand recognition. That’s what advertising is all about.

          • lprent 4.2.1.2.2

            …big photos of Key for 9 years every where and a wee photo of the local person some times, or the same thing now with Ardern?

            Why not consider the default hypothesis? That experience is that procedure is what works in elections.

            If you start with that as a premise, then you may want to consider why it shouldn’t work. I’m sure we will have convulsions of laughter as you formulate a series of ideas of alternate realities.

            • Chris T 4.2.1.2.2.1

              True.

              I suppose they wouldn't do it if people weren't stupid enough for it to work on.

              • Incognito

                <sigh!>

                It’s not about people being “stupid” or “even the thickest”; it is simple basic psychology that works!

                People who seem to think they’re immune to advertising because they’re too clever or something are really the ‘naïve’ ones, IMHO.

                • Chris T

                  I'm not immune to advertising.

                  I am to photos of people on the side of the road

                  • Incognito

                    How do you know they’re photos of people? Do you recognize (any of) them? If yes, job done 😉

                    • Sacha

                      They were wearing leotards. 🙂

                    • Incognito []

                      I’m having flashes of Flashdance and other 80s fashion crimes.

                    • Chris T

                      Wouldn't have a clue who any of them are.

                    • Incognito []

                      I see …

                      I think even the thickest know who the PM is, and the ones too thick to get that bit would have trouble using a pen to vote.

                    • Chris T

                      The PM isn't one of my local candidates/

                      frown

                    • Incognito []

                      Are you saying neither the PM nor the current Leader of the Oppo features on the billboards in your neck of the woods, only candidates whom you don’t recognise? What are you doing here on the leading political blog of NZ? Showing off your ignorance of your local candidates?

                • Chris T

                  No. I was saying I have no idea who the local people are apart from the giant image of Ardern everywhere.

                  But I agree I could have worded it better.

            • Kiwijoker 4.2.1.2.2.2

              It’s subliminal Soiman

          • Treetop 4.2.1.2.3

            They probably would not be interested in voting or get the voting day wrong.

    • Cinny 4.3

      Regarding hoardings……there are no hoardings for maureen pugh in the whole of the Tasman part of the electorate, except for 8 hoardings in a row on one fence (including judith hoardings).

      Even in the places she usually has her hoardings, there are none. Maybe locals don't want a national party or maureen hoarding.

      I'm thinking it's a demand issue, rather than a supply issue.

  4. Sacha 6

    A Council transfers some of its functions to local iwi – first time this has been done despite local govt law allowing it for last three decades: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/422595/iwi-takes-over-council-s-functions-for-first-time-in-nz

  5. Jum 7

    RNZ interviews two brave young women recounting their experiences at the hands of the 'most trusted profession' firefighters and the disgusting behaviour by all levels of that 'most trusted profession' to drive them out if they didn't shut up about the bullying (of men and women) the rapes and the sexual and physical assaults of so many firefighters going into a (to them) loved occupation.

    The top guy supposed to be setting up mechanisms to prevent these old men using their imbalance of power didn't even seem to know what he was setting up. He also did not accept that the management of said firefighting service was to blame. Yet the old men who committed these atrocities have been promoted to, guess what, management positions.

    But the worst part of what I heard from the interviews was when the young lass went to fellow female firefighters to get some support to stop what was happening, they turned their backs on her. And we wonder why there is so much domestic violence and rapes and killings of women still. Once men know that women will not stand up for other women in such awful situations, then men, both young and old, know they are free to continue their attacks. We can all wax lyrical about the good stations with the equality of codes for all firefighters in those 'good' stations, but where are those 'good' stations when these women, being abused, could be daughters, sisters, even mothers. It is sickening to hear this from the 'most trusted profession'.

    Ardern needs to follow this closely, go to visit these stations, make it clear that all New Zealanders who actually want their girls and women, boys and men, to live safe lives in any profession are watching. Don't bother to ask Collins; last time I saw her as Police Minister she was talking lovingly about 'my boys', with a woman police officer standing right beside her.

      • greywarshark 7.1.1

        That is sad news. I really respected firefighters, thought they had good values, good expertise, good camaraderie to all.

        • I Feel Love 7.1.1.1

          Nope, you never seen images of them using their hoses on protesters at the polices bidding (sure, overseas, but not to say it couldn't happen here)? Absolutely, I respect the job, saving peoples lives at great risk to themselves, they truly are heroes, but I don't kid myself they are also just do what they're told.

    • Just Is 7.2

      I blame Keys normalization of this behaviour, instead of rejecting this type of behaviour, he became part of the problem.

      Where was the 4th Estate?

    • Gabby 7.3

      It is unfair on the decent brigades not to make public which brigades are in the shit over this.

    • Morrissey 7.4

      I find it astounding that the NZFE spokesman is the utterly discredited ex-military buffoon Rhys Jones. They could not have appointed a worse P.R. person.

      You might remember Jones if you watched Kay Ellmers' and Annie Goldson's superb 2013 documentary about New Zealand's shameful involvement in the destruction of Afghanistan:

      Footage of Rhys Jones and Wayne “Inane” Mapp blithering confusedly about SAS troops being there to “mentor” the Afghan “forces”, and then being immediately undercut by the infamous photo of Willie Apiata and an SAS comrade striding through Kabul, with guns smoking. Commander Shaun Fogerty sounds off about the publication of the photo: “very disappointing.”

      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/10/review-of-he-toki-huna-new-zealand-in.html

      • Gabby 7.4.1

        No idea, but Tracy Martin seems fairly happy with FENZ contracting people to investigate complaints.

  6. Tricledrown 8
    1. Even the ACT former advisor poo poos Goldsmiths dumb cashing out kiwisaver
    2. RNZ this morning.
  7. RedBaronCV 9

    With Australia having capped quarantine entry numbers at 4000 and payment by all – funny how the Nats here don't reference that – and ours at 6000.

    Should we be thinking about allocating our quarantine slots using a points system so that the most vulnerable get into the queue? If there was a clear listing of criteria with the most urgent at the top then everyone could plan accordingly. Then they can be booked on an airline rather than the person who can pay the highest airfare and who cannot be ejected from where they are ?

    Personally I'd rather see a single passport holder with foreign visa about to run out using a quarantine slot rather than a someone with a passport or residence visa that hasn't been near the country in years and has alternative living options.

    Likewise do we start expiring visa's where there has been a blanket extension granted to encourage some of the holders here to return to their country before further border limits are put in place for them (UK?)

    And wouldn't it be great for some other countries to get their act together so we are not the target for all the "we have a super special need" pleading.Like the yachts and the cyclone season – around half of french polynesia looks like it is never hit and the two most northern island groups have had 13 storms in 60 years under very specific weather conditions.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-10/national-cabinet-international-arrivals-coronavirus-quarantine/12441932

    • greywarshark 9.1

      Red Baron Your approach to border entry to NZ would be better than at present I think. Though having had say five applications put aside for more urgent cases should up someone in the priority list so they were not left in limbo.

      • RedBaronCV 9.1.1

        I think that would just encourage endless reapplications and apparently some people are already taking up an excessive amount of time.

        But if the priority rules are clear then I guess we would end up with a group 1 that can book on the planes and will take up seats for the next X months. Then group 2. With only 144000 places a year and a million plus eligible to return apparently, something has to give.

        Australia with 4000 places 5 times the population and the same number offshore as us is even more tightly controlled. There isn't going to be much trans tasman or christmas holiday travel for a while.

        Whether you would hold a small allocation for say business (so Lprent can pop off to work if he needs to!) and other last minute needs .

        But it would give a lot more certainty and stop the time wasting of the over entitled or the "I only want to come here because it's covid free. "

        Even with the numbers we have I can still see the possibility that we have to do some on off repatriation flights from say the UK. ( pre quarantine there to identify any possibles- single flight to Ohakea say- and the full quarantine somewhere in an isolated country location outside bulls or palmy?)

        and while they are at it why not just shut the gate for new applications. until people come back we won’t know if we are short of anybody (like nurses) so why even load us up with the administration. That has to be nuts.

  8. observer 10

    Read these comments by Judith Collins about Todd Muller. Then imagine a political opponent, even Ardern, saying them about the former National leader:

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/judith-collins-confident-todd-muller-will-be-fine-thinks-it-s-extremely-poor-form-to-backbench-former-leaders.html

    "He's still not quite right … he obviously wasn't able to deal with this issue of being the leader because of various circumstances. But you know what, I'm here."

    So kind.

    • bwaghorn 10.1

      If I was in the nats and knew 12 decents other nat mps (I know it's a long shot but there must be some) I'd split from the nats and make a new party .

      • Stuart Munro 10.1.1

        12 might be a little ambitious. I'm pretty sure Judith knows three members of her caucus that could keep a secret without leaking. If two of them were dead.

    • Gabby 10.2

      She's lovely.

  9. Barfly 11

    Cannabis referendum

    I m in my early 60s I am what would be previously called an alcoholic – apparently these days the term is "alcohol dependent syndrome".

    If I am smoking cannabis I lose interest in drinking

    So 4 kilos of of beer a day or 1.5 kilos of wine a day or .001 kilos of cannabis a day

    Guess which my doctor says which is least harmful?

    I ask you to vote yes for cannabis legalisation in the coming referendum apologies if this is in the wrong section.

    Thank you

    • I Feel Love 11.1

      I was a heavy dope smoker during my 20s & 30s, quit in my early 40s, I needed it every day. Never drank, the odd beer here & there. I wish a lot of my friends would give up weed, they're boring & moody when they can't find it. But, I'll be voting 'yes' as I can't stand the hypocrisy, alcohol & cigarettes being legal & pot not.

      The best thing about giving up is no longer having to listen to pot dealers boring stories & pretending to laugh at their unfunny jokes while buying weed. "First thing you learn is that you always gotta wait" – Lou Reed, Waiting for the Man.

    • Andre 11.2

      I used to tie myself in mental knots thinking about relative harms of various substances and what should be legal and what shouldn't. But that's the wrong way of thinking about it.

      The better way of thinking about it is: what causes greater harm to society and users, use of the substance itself, or the effects on individuals and society of it being criminalised?

      It seems very clear to me we do far more harm to individuals and society by criminalising substances than the substances themselves actually do. So it seems clear to me we as a society would be much better off by legalisation and management and treating the cases of harm that do result as a health problem not a criminal problem. That's even setting aside the evidence from other jurisdictions that there will probably actually be fewer cases of harm after legalisation.

      • McFlock 11.2.1

        Even with things like heroin, if the government runs safe health clinics to shoot up, supervised, using the safe government supply and needles, so many of the ills of addiction would at least be controlled. Disease, ODs, violent distributors, petty crime to finance the habit or pay the debts.

        Don't know if that concept extends to meth or cocaine, though. Different beasties.

      • RedBaronCV 11.2.2

        I've never bothered with the stuff but I'll be voting yes. The amount we have spent on cops, courts and jails over the years for less than zero result could be given to the health system. A weekly scary health lecture from Ash or someone similar would maybe scare a lot of people off it at minimal cost.

    • PaddyOT 11.3

      Speaking of the irony of it ,

      2 birds with one stone

      https://youtu.be/EZx5OgKQNrA

      OnceWasTim was looking for Wayne the other day, nostalgic over days chewing the fat at the pub, and they've found him. I think he's an extra in the video about verse 4

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Face to face meeting delivers significant progress on NZ-UK FTA
    New Zealand and the UK have committed to accelerating their free trade agreement negotiations with the aim of reaching an agreement in principle this August, Trade Minister Damien O’Connor announced. “We’ve held constructive and productive discussions towards the conclusion of a high-quality and comprehensive FTA that will support sustainable and inclusive trade, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • Government taking action to protect albatross
    New population figures for the critically endangered Antipodean albatross showing a 5 percent decline per year highlights the importance of reducing all threats to these very special birds, Acting Minister of Conservation Dr Ayesha Verrall says. The latest population modelling, carried out by Dragonfly Data Science, shows the Antipodean albatross ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Adoption laws under review
    New Zealand’s 66-year-old adoption laws are being reviewed, with public engagement beginning today.  Justice Minister Kris Faafoi said the Government is seeking views on options for change to our adoption laws and system. “The Adoption Act has remained largely the same since 1955. We need our adoption laws to reflect ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Wider roll-out of cameras on boats to support sustainability and protect marine life
    Up to 300 inshore commercial fishing vessels will be fitted with on-board cameras by 2024 as part of the Government’s commitment to protect the natural marine environment for future generations.  Minister for Oceans and Fisheries David Parker today announced the funding is now in place for the wider roll out ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Plan for vaccine rollout for general population announced
    New Zealanders over 60 will be offered a vaccination from July 28 and those over 55 from August 11, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. The rollout of the vaccine to the general population will be done in age groups as is the approach commonly used overseas, with those over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand introduces Belarus travel bans
    New Zealand has imposed travel bans on selected individuals associated with the Lukashenko regime, following ongoing concerns about election fraud and human rights abuses after the 2020 Belarus elections, Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta has announced. The ban covers more than fifty individuals, including the President and key members of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ economy grows driven by households, construction and business investment
    The Government’s efforts to secure the recovery have been reflected in the robust rebound of GDP figures released today which show the economy remains resilient despite the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Grant Robertson said. GDP increased 1.6 percent in the first three months of 2021. The Treasury had ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Milestone 250th tower continues to improve rural connectivity
    The Government has welcomed the completion of the 250th 4G mobile tower, as part of its push for better rural connectivity. Waikato’s Wiltsdown, which is roughly 80 kilometres south of Hamilton, is home to the new tower, deployed by the Rural Connectivity Group to enable improved service to 70 homes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria to lift on Tuesday
    Following a further public health assessment of the COVID-19 outbreak in greater Melbourne, New Zealand’s Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria has been extended to 11.59pm on Tuesday 22 June, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. It has been determined that the risk to public health in New Zealand continues ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Prime Minister mourns passing of Dr Sir Ian Hassall
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is mourning the passing of Dr Sir Ian Hassall, New Zealand’s first Children’s Commissioner and lifelong champion for children and children’s health. As a paediatrician Sir Ian contributed to a major world-first cot death study that has been directly credited with reducing cot deaths in New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • APEC structural reform meeting a success
    APEC ministers have agreed working together will be crucial to ensure economies recover from the impact of COVID-19. Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs David Clark, chaired the virtual APEC Structural Reform Ministerial Meeting today which revolved around the overarching theme of promoting balanced, inclusive, sustainable, innovative and secure growth ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Digital hub to boost investment in forestry
    A new website has been launched at Fieldays to support the forestry sector find the information it needs to plant, grow and manage trees, and to encourage investment across the wider industry. Forestry Minister Stuart Nash says the new Canopy website is tailored for farmers, iwi and other forestry interests, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government continues support for rangatahi to get into employment, education and training
    Over 230 rangatahi are set to benefit from further funding through four new He Poutama Rangatahi programmes, Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “We’re continuing to secure our economic recovery from COVID by investing in opportunities for rangatahi to get into meaningful employment, education or training ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NCEA subjects up for consultation
    The education sector, students, their parents, whānau and communities are invited to share their thoughts on a list of proposed NCEA subjects released today, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. This is a significant part of the Government’s NCEA Change Programme that commenced in 2020 and will be largely implemented by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Major investment in plantain forage programme aims to improve freshwater quality
    The Government is backing a major programme investigating plantain’s potential to help farmers protect waterways and improve freshwater quality, Acting Agriculture Minister Meka Whaitiri announced at Fieldays today. The Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures (SFFF) fund is contributing $8.98 million to the $22.23 million seven-year programme, which aims to deliver ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • America’s Cup decision
    The Minister responsible for the America’s Cup has confirmed the joint Crown-Auckland Council offer to host the next regatta has been declined by the Board of Team New Zealand. “The exclusive period of negotiation between the Crown, Auckland Council, and Team New Zealand ends tomorrow, 17 June,” said Stuart Nash. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Food and fibres sector making significant strides towards New Zealand’s economic recovery
    The Government is backing the food and fibres sector to lead New Zealand's economic recovery from COVID-19 with targeted investments as part of its Fit for a Better World roadmap, Forestry Minister Stuart Nash said. “To drive New Zealand’s recovery, we launched the Fit for a Better World – Accelerating ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to He Whenua Taurikura – New Zealand’s annual hui on countering terrorism and violent...
    Check against delivery Can I begin by acknowledging the 51 shuhada, their families and the Muslim community. It is because of the atrocious violent act that was done to them which has led ultimately to this, the start of a dialogue and a conversation about how we as a nation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Cost of Government Southern Response proactive package released
    The Government has announced the proactive package for some Southern Response policyholders could cost $313 million if all those eligible apply. In December, the Minister Responsible for the Earthquake Commission, David Clark announced a proactive package for SRES claimants who settled their claims before October 2014. It trailed the judgment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New support to reduce emissions from public building and construction projects
    Government agencies are getting new support to reduce carbon emissions generated by construction of new buildings, with the release of practical guidance to shape decisions on public projects. The Ministers for Building and Construction and for Economic Development say a new Procurement Guide will help government agencies, private sector suppliers, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • He Whenua Taurikura: New Zealand’s first Hui on Countering Terrorism and Violent Extremism
    The Prime Minister has opened New Zealand’s first hui on Countering Terrorism and Violent Extremism, which is being held in Christchurch over the next two days. The hui delivers on one of the recommendations from the report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch masjidain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to inaugural Countering Terrorism Hui
    E aku nui, e aku rahi, Te whaka-kanohi mai o rātou mā, Ru-ruku-tia i runga i te ngākau whakapono, Ru-ruku-tia i runga i te ngākau aroha, Waitaha, Ngāti Mamoe, Ngai Tahu, nāu rā te reo pohiri. Tena tātou katoa. Ki te kotahi te kakaho ka whati, ki te kapuia, e ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Campaign shines a light on elder abuse
    A new campaign is shining a spotlight on elder abuse, and urging people to protect older New Zealanders. Launched on World Elder Abuse Awareness Day, the Office for Seniors’ campaign encourages friends, whānau and neighbours to look for the signs of abuse, which is often hidden in plain sight. “Research suggests ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Farewelling sports administrator and philanthropist Sir Eion Edgar
    Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson today expressed his sorrow at the passing of Sir Eion Edgar – a leading sports administrator and celebrated philanthropist who has made a significant impact both within and beyond the sport sector. “Sir Eion’s energy, drive and generosity has been truly immense. He leaves ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government to apologise for Dawn Raids
    The Government will make a formal apology for the wrongs committed during the Dawn Raids of the 1970’s. Between 1974 and 1976, a series of rigorous immigration enforcement policies were carried out that resulted in targeted raids on the homes of Pacific families. The raids to find, convict and deport overstayers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Humanitarian support for Bangladesh and Myanmar
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced that New Zealand is providing NZ $8.25 million in humanitarian assistance to support refugees and their host populations in Bangladesh and to support humanitarian need of internally displaced and conflict affected people in Myanmar.  “Nearly four years after 900,000 Rohingya crossed the border ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Poroporoaki: Dame Georgina Kamiria Kirby
    E Te Kōkō Tangiwai, Te Tuhi Mareikura, Te Kākākura Pokai kua riro i a matou. He toka tū moana ākinga ā tai, ākinga ā hau, ākinga ā ngaru tūātea.  Haere atu rā ki te mūrau a te tini, ki te wenerau a te mano.  E tae koe ki ngā rire ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Feedback sought on future of housing and urban development
    New Zealanders are encouraged to have their say on a long-term vision for housing and urban development to guide future work, the Housing Minister Megan Woods has announced. Consultation starts today on a Government Policy Statement on Housing and Urban Development (GPS-HUD), which will support the long-term direction of Aotearoa ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Clean car package to drive down emissions
    New rebates for electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles start July 1 with up to $8,625 for new vehicles and $3,450 for used. Electric vehicle chargers now available every 75km along most state highways to give Kiwis confidence. Low Emission Transport Fund will have nearly four times the funding by 2023 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Progress towards simpler process for changing sex on birth certificates
    The Government is taking the next step to support transgender, non-binary and intersex New Zealanders, by progressing the Births, Deaths, Marriages and Relationships Registration Bill, Minister of Internal Affairs, Jan Tinetti announced today. “This Government understands that self-identification is a significant issue for transgender, non-binary and intersex New Zealanders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Crown speeds up engagement with takutai moana applicants
    The Crown is taking a new approach to takutai moana applications to give all applicants an opportunity to engage with the Crown and better support the Māori-Crown relationship, Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Minister Andrew Little says. Following discussions with applicant groups, the Crown has reviewed the existing takutai moana application ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Alcohol and Other Drug Treatment (AODT) Court opens
    The Minister of Justice, Kris Faafoi, and the Minister for Courts, Aupito William Sio, have welcomed the opening of a new Alcohol and Other Drug Treatment (AODT) Court in Hamilton. The AODT Court (Te Whare Whakapiki Wairua) addresses situations where substance abuse and offending are intertwined. “New Zealanders have told ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • EU and UK FTAs top of list for first ministerial trip since COVID-19
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor today announced details of his planned visit to the United Kingdom and European Union next week, where he will hold trade and agriculture discussions to further New Zealand’s economic recovery from COVID-19. The visit will add political weight to ongoing negotiations with both the EU ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Arihia Bennett to chair Royal Commission Ministerial Advisory Group
    Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu chief executive Arihia Bennett MNZM has been appointed chair of the newly appointed Ministerial Advisory Group on the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch mosques. “Twenty-eight people from diverse backgrounds across Aotearoa have been selected for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Medical Association General Practitioners' Conference, Rotorua
    Ki ngā pou maha o te whare hauora o Aotearoa, kei te mihiTo the pillars of our health system I acknowledge/thank you Ki te ope hapai hauora o roto o tēnei rūma, kei te mihi To our health force here in the room today, I acknowledge/thank you He taura tangata, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Karangahape Road upgrades are streets ahead
    The upgrades to Karangahape Road makes the iconic street more pedestrian and cycle-friendly, attractive and environmentally sustainable, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said at the formal celebration of the completion of the Karangahape Road Enhancements project. The project included widening footpaths supporting a better outdoor dining ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to APEC business event
    E ngā tumu herenga waka, ākina ā ngaru, ākina ā tai ka whakatere ngā waka ki te whakapapa pounamu, otirā, ki Tamaki o ngā waka Tena koutou katoa… To the great leaders assembled, who guided your waka through turbulent times, challenging waters and you continue to navigate your respective waka ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pause on Quarantine Free Travel with Victoria extended
    Following an assessment of the COVID-19 outbreak in greater Melbourne, New Zealand’s Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria will continue for a further seven days, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. There are now 93 cases associated with the outbreak in greater Melbourne, spread over four clusters. Contact tracing efforts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supplier Diversity Aotearoa Summit: Navigate 2021
    *** Check with delivery *** A mihi to all who have contributed to making today a success – starting with you! As you have explored and navigated government procurement today you will hopefully have reflected on the journey of our people so far – and how you can make a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pukemiro School to close
    Pukemiro Primary School near Huntly will close following years of declining roll numbers, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. “I’ve consulted with the School Commissioner, and this decision acknowledges the fact that the few remaining students from last term are now settled at other nearby schools. “I want to thank ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago