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Open mike 04/09/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 4th, 2015 - 66 comments
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66 comments on “Open mike 04/09/2015 ”

  1. dv 1


    UN Security Council inaction on Syria ‘past unacceptable’ says Murray McCully
    “The fact the Security Council has not managed to find a resolution amongst the parties is just past unacceptable. We are doing everything we can to try to create some sort of resolution that will enable the humanitarian challenges to be addressed

    Shame NZ isn’t doing every thing we can to met the humanitarian challenge.

    • mickysavage 1.1

      Its all the UN’s fault …

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1

        It’s never Nationals fault even when it is.

        • Muttonbird

          Yep. Expect a flip-flop from Key on this in the very near future. Except it won’t be called a flip-flop – that term is reserved for the opposition. The government’s furious back-pedalling has already been framed as a “softening of position”, which sounds much nicer.

          What this shows is the default position of this government is indifference, and this is backed up by the sweeping changes to WINZ and social housing. However, they are happy to throw cruel ideology away at the first sign of trouble from their own voter base.

      • half crown 1.1.2

        “Its all the UN’s fault …”

        Nah, It’s Labour’s fault. Just ask the Spiv.

    • Tracey 1.2

      Always easy to speak tough on stuff you can’t change…. big bad courageous mccully

    • rhinocrates 1.3

      “Unacceptable” is a classic weasel word. Whenever a politician uses the word “unacceptable”, they mean that they want to be seen to be condemning someone else but never in a news release containing that word will you see an alternative or a commitment to do anything. It means, ‘thank you for doing what I would do, but which would make me more unpopular if I did it.’ When ‘leading Labour, Goff was very fond of it himself when he wasn’t saying ‘me too’.

    • Anne 2.1

      Note how quiet the MSM is keeping on the fact that John Key’s mother was a refugee from 1930s Europe. She was one of the lucky ones who escaped the holocaust and ended up starting a new life in NZ. She and her children were looked after by the state… lived in a warm, dry home… good food in their stomachs… and the recipients of a first class education.

      • tc 2.1.1

        Something the opposition should be skewering him over and using his cynical flag exercise costs as a clear example of vanity before humanity.

        Somedays I wonder if we even have an opposition…

        • Draco T Bastard

          You’ve got to remember that a large part of the opposition actually agree with National on charging for education and not providing social housing.

      • Tracey 2.1.2

        The Refugee Association mention sit every chance they get. I think People have forgotten that Key’s parents were refugees and I thought Little missed a great chance to look into the camera and speak to MR Key ” hey, remember how NZ helped your parents?”

        • Muttonbird

          Makes no difference to Key’s support base.

          To them, John Key’s parents were the right sort of refugees – they were white and had the right God, not brown and Islamic.

          Peter Dunne wants refugees to be vetted on an wealth and skills basis which defeats the entire idea of compassion, I would have thought. Further proof that this government is indifferent to the vulnerable.

          That daft Scots migrant, Jock Anderson, made a complete fool of himself on the radio yesterday afternoon advocating that only rich refugees be allowed access.

          • Tracey

            yes, a general misunderstanding of what a refugee is. We have categories for welathy immigrants, refugee is a different beats. It is of concern when so called intelligent people don’t get this, or don’t want to.

          • b waghorn

            But if we could take 10 000 that could support themselves as well as increasing our true refugee numbers buy double wouldn’t that be better.?

      • Chooky 2.1.3

        +100 Anne

  2. wyndham 3

    But, but Helen Clark did it too – – – –

    Key said it was easy for the Opposition to say the Government should do more and while the number of displaced people had increased in recent years – “there were still tens of millions when Helen Clark was Prime Minister”.

    From yesterdays’ DomPost

    • Anne 3.1

      What a snotty nosed, out of context and infantile response! Did the DomPost point out he’s behaving like a child? I’m sure the answer was ‘no’.

  3. Rodel 4

    Incisive leadership (sarc) on the refuge crisis from the Prime Minister.
    Quoted in today’s Press.

    “We’re not ruling out whether there’s more that we could possibly do earlier, and maybe specifically in relation to what we are seeing at the moment”

    I’m not comfortable with that level of ‘leadership’.

    • Muttonbird 4.1

      But he and Bling did rule it out, just two days ago.

      • Tracey 4.1.1

        yes, but he is a perpetual liar so does that. Remember that 2103 poll where only 28% believe anything he says?

    • mac1 4.2

      Look at the careful imprecision of Key’s statement.

      1. “We’re not ruling out”. This says nothing and indicates very little positive action in a negative way.
      2. “more”. Not quantified or defined. Could have been a little more, lot more, a whole lot more.
      3. “possibly’. Again no action indicated and ‘possibly’ is very low down the chain of probability of something happening.
      4. “maybe specifically”. This is a wonderful juxtaposition of a low probability word ‘maybe’ with a very definite word ‘specifically’, meaning very little.
      4. “what we are seeing”. Not described. Later, Key could say he was talking about anything.

      This is not Orwellian “newspeak”. This is “nothingspeak”, “zilchtalk”, ‘nadamessaging”. It is the verbal equivalent of candy floss.

      • Rodel 4.2.1

        mac1-Candy floss?- I was thinking of another substance, somewhat heavier and brownish rather than pink. cheers!

        • mac1

          That substance possibly derives from good nutrition, whereas with Key there’s nothing to bite on, chew on, give nourishment. I prefer candy floss as a symbol since it also conjures up fairground hucksters, snake oil merchants and winning prizes that turn out to be less than the cost of the turn.

      • Tracey 4.2.2

        It is the words of a man who knows he will not be held to account for his words. And is waiting for more polling before he makes up his mind

      • mary_a 4.2.3

        @ mac1 (4.2) But … but did FJK make those statements as FJK (faux) PM, FJK NatzKEY leader, FJK private citizen, FJK Bronagh’s hubby, FJK Moonbeam’s dad, FJK Uncle Sam’s scrooge, or FJK whoever? His position at the time of flapping his gob off here, makes all the difference to where his responsibility lies!

        • mac1

          But did he make those statements, and did he mean what you think he said, because he can always get another opinion, and anyway actually Helen did it too, and Labour were to blame in their nine long years…………………….

  4. North 5

    ‘Leadership’ is soooo yesterday……for bleeding hearts, “munters”, Helen Clark a decade ago.

    The New Order is ‘CelebriKey’ !

    C’mon NiuZilndizz……”Gerr-Sarrm-Garrtzz !” Check it out on E! Channel, Seven PM Sharp, week nights.

    • Tracey 6.1


      A FLAG

    • freedom 6.2

      The only thing more upsetting than the story itself are the numerous comments underneath the story, where the compassion that used to be a hallmark of our nation is exposed to be woefully (and increasingly) absent.

      I also fail to understand how he could have run out of the WINZ office seeing as every WINZ office in the country currently has at least one security guard stationed at the door and usually another inside the offices themselves. Many also have a local representative from the Police in situ during office hours.

      I can’t see the country I was raised in anymore. I do miss it though.

    • mac1 6.3

      Thanks for the article, muttonbird. Very close to home, in more ways than one.

      Huge credit due to the helpers in this situation.

  5. lprent 7

    We got another bad link in a incoming RSS feed. Due to having a nasty cold last week, I didn’t find a permanent fix for this.

    People were getting locked out of the site for writing comments for several hours. I have cleared all of those blocks now, and the RSS feeds are switched off.

    They will stay off until I have time to build a permanent fix.

  6. ianmac 8

    A badge worn by members of RNZAF 3 squadron, has a silver fern and the stars of the southern cross in exactly the same location as the two flags designed by Kyle Lockwood. Designed or copied?
    Picture at http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/71710031/air-force-unit-has-been-wearing-one-of-final-four-flags-for-years.html

    • freedom 8.1

      was just about to post on that – but had site access issues – ….

      It’s not a brand, it’s a national flag, right? A national flag is about many things; pride, unity, respect, solidarity, patriotism. So why all the copyright issues circling the Flag referendum selections? We have the Rugby Union unequivocally putting their foot down about their rights. The Companies and Immigration Offices are both remarkably quiet about one of the selections, while (co-incidentally)the man who designed the NZRU Silver Fern talks up redesigning all the ferns that have been shortlisted.

      And have you seen the story where Kyle Lockwood is looking at challenging the RNZAF in a copyright battle over prior use of his Siver Fern Flag designs?


      These stories highlight how the focus of the exercise seems to be flagging. I don’t see how prior use copyright battles with the very people you are freely giving up your copyright claims to, can be said to support any of those tall standards of pride, unity, respect, solidarity & patriotism. It has recently been reported people representing Kyle Lockwood are making inquiries about the “kiwi party plates” and their possible breach of his designs’ copyright. They seem to have been slow off the mark however, the Silver Fern Flag website states they first became aware of the plates back in 2011.

      As I might have mentioned previously, his designs are meant to have had all rights signed over to the government under part 15 of the Flag Design Terms and Conditions. (excepting some recent application of part 19 of course) https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/resources/terms-and-conditions/

      These are very clear terms. We have no reason not to think they have been rightfully enacted by that very same government he is now questioning over rights of prior use. Rights that would now let the government comfortably use any such design in the very function the [prior] owner of the copyright is making enquiries about.

      His lawyers may well have a case about prior use (though there are enough design variances to raise doubt) but under the terms of the flag selection process, Kyle Lockwood has to sign over all rights for current and future use (and should have already done so). Considering it is a group within the RNZAF whom, it is questioned, might have committed a prior use infringement, we are left to puzzle over his motivations for even bothering to contest it. Companies selling plastic plates is one thing. The armed forces of the nation whose flag your design is shortlisted to replace does seem an odd choice of litigant, if it gets that far.

      Remember, Kyle Lockwood was also very passionate about NZ bringing back ten year passports and petitioned the government on the issue and was spokesperson for the ‘NZ Ten’ campaign. http://www.nzten.com/petition.html I thank him for that, and thank all those who played their small part in pushing for this incredibly important return to sanity.

      Kyle Lockwood seems to have a genuine passion for NZ, the fact he is currently based in Melbourne is irrelevant and yes, his career should rightfully beneift from the exposure of his designs’ success. However, I do not believe that success should include ongoing commercial gain directly drawn from the sale of flags and associated materials bearing a design that is now meant to be the commercial and legal property of the NZ government. Not only is the commercial activity continuing, after all rights are meant to have been signed over, but he is actually expanding the commercial activity related to his design. It appears he plans to sell even more flags.

      Due to unprecedented demand as a result of the Crown’s top four release, all flags have sold out, however more are on the way. our manufacturers are busily making new flags and we are setting up distribution centres in Auckland, Wellington and Melbourne, with a view to opening a London distribution centre.

      Please bear with us if your flags take a little while to arrive, thank you!

      Kyle Lockwood, Designer.

      How much longer is he going to be selling the flags for?
      Have the Silver Fern Flag outlets become some unofficial marketing or revenue arm of the referendum process?

      Weird huh? What’s weirder still? Even though he proudly updated the commercial arm of his website there is STILL not any update announcing his designs’ success either on the Homepage, or the Press page! As the copyright lawyers get together and the media have said as little as possible, the government seems happy to leave the entire issue in legal limbo. Seems Lockwood is free to carry on selling product I guess. At least we can rest peacefully knowing “It’s not a brand”.

      • Tracey 8.1.1

        You mean it has become all about money?

        quel horreur!

        So much for the flag representing all of us as a nation…

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2

        There really is a very limited number of ways to draw a Silver Fern and they will all look similar, ergo, I think Kyle Lockwood can go fuck himself. The original copyright holder is Nature and She’s not complaining.

        • McFlock

          I thought he could go fuck himself when there were conflicting stories about whether he is based in Hutt Valley or Melbourne.

          I don’t give a shit either way, it just seems to me that he’s been clumsily bullshitting in order to get people to give a fuck. And, it seems, make himself money.

        • freedom

          ” and She’s not complaining”
          can be awesome when worked up though ..

  7. Tracey 9

    A settlement with the Crown enables Key and Smith to get some of that Auckland land for housing.

    The agreement appears to reinforce the first right of refusal principle and leads to the withdrawal of the legal challenge..

    “The Government and Ngā Mana Whenua o Tāmaki Makaurau have come to an agreement, where we will be able to get on and use vacant public land for housing while at the same time ensuring Treaty settlements covering the Auckland region are respected and upheld. I welcome the decision by Ngāti Whātua Rōpū to withdraw legal proceedings to allow the programme to continue at pace,” Dr Smith says.

    And the Iwi have withdrawn it cos they have had their right of first refusal acknowledged by the Government, which is what they were challenging.


  8. adam 10

    Last night the Turkish government just rolled over the war against ISIS – and in one sense extended it to include active participation in Syria. Will this come with them fighting against the Kurds? As Kurdish forces control many of the vital strategic and tactical cross roads on the northern Syrian and Southern Turkish boarder.


    Also have the Kurds done to well? If our troops had to be in the region, I would have preferred them helping Kurdish and other minorities, against the worlds latest theocratic state.


    • McFlock 10.1

      Turkey has been bombing the kurds for a while.

      From what I recall they recently got some additional US gear in exchange for ramping up against ISIL, but also sneak in a few attacks against the kurds. They cooled off against the kurds previously because the kurds were the only ones opposing ISIL with any success.

      Basically, Turkey seems happy to let the Kurds and ISIL weaken each other, and turkey will take on the weakened victor.

      • adam 10.1.1

        I agree McFlock – the Kurds victories over ISIS have been protracted and bloody. They have been slowly dragging more and more of their population into the militias. I’m not sure for stability it is a good tactic from Turkey.

        I know from Greek friends, they are mightily pissed off with Turkey at the moment. One friend said there has been some sabre-rattling from the Greek military over Turkey again. It all seem fubar.

  9. plumington 12

    The comment Anne said about John Keys Mother is timely
    Apart from not being war torn what can NZ offer refugees when our social services (housing, child poverty etc)are abysmal, maybe we should get our own house in order and politicians should fix (instead of talking )NZs social issues
    Grandstanding on issues like refugees doesn’t help anyone and is insincere point scoring, nothing more
    IMO the import of more refugees will be detrimental for NZ and it’s social services “the cart before the horse “comes to mind

  10. Ad 13

    Good to see NZFirst standing against the proposed sale of 50% of Silver Ferm Farms to the Chinese.

    Whether it’s Chinse, Russian, British or Fijian, it pisses me off.
    There has been huge multi-year efforts by NZ farmers to try and get the two big meat operators to cooperate

    Until this takeover succeeds, there is still a chance to form a common NZ international marketing organisation for NZ grass-fed beef, just like Zespri, and the old ENZA etc. it is so crap that the two of them compete on the same Sainsbury meat shelf on price, when the power of the national food brand remains so high internationally. And the government have not lifted a finger to help. Typical.

    A massive tragedy if this sale goes through.

    NZFirst are on the money.

  11. Ad 14

    Graeme Brazier, our own Gluepot Zoolander.

    Gutter Black!

  12. freedom 15


    do unto others as we did to your mother

    Last month, last week, even yesterday, the PM could have announced an immediate increase of a hundred places without any real concern about costs and support infrastructure and still run with ‘we’ll see what the reports say and maybe have a look at a greater increase soon… ‘

    Now, any action he forwards is branded for what it is, shame induced tokenism

    • freedom 15.1


      Documents obtained under the Official Information Act show the 2013 advice to Cabinet on the refugee quota was based on the preferences of the Prime Minister and did not allow for the relevant Ministers or Immigration officials to put forward a previously suggested case for an increase.

      On Monday the Prime Minister admitted that he thought the nation’s annual refugee quota was “three or four thousand”. He later corrected himself by acknowledging just over one thousand total places were available every year.

      Here is the interview with Paul Henry where the PM states the Family Re-unification process pushes the quota of 750 refugees up to “three to four thousand people” every year and he obviously accepts that number, as he goes on to say “we are set in about the right place”
      (note that three to four thousand is a number which he later corrected to a much lower figure -see above quote)


      During the interview, he discusses how including family Re-unification numbers, the total of three to four thousand is about where the numbers should be. He admitted after the interview he was incorrect in the number of refugees NZ does take in, but if he was comfortable talking about three to four thousand people as being “set in about the right place” surely he accepts there is a case for increasing the number of refugees?

  13. Once was Tim 16

    Public Service Announcement specifically directed @ Morissey….
    Please DON’T bother with this arvo’s “The Panel”. It’ll be damaging to your health. (Especially once you’ve got past the ‘suffistik- aided woin’ analysis, and when the ‘father of the Nayshun’ (Jum Mora) comes on board.
    Truly fuckn horrible.
    I was thinking of emailing the Jessy to tell him to ease up a bit. It’s not yet “The Wireless” on the ether and airwaves – no matter how much he might like it – and there’s still a generation from above as well as a Natzi gummint looking for an excuse.
    Whilst I’m no longer a regular here – I feel it my duty to warn you on the grounds of health prevention and in the knowledge that it may make you want to just hoik at them (Memories of those signs “no spitting on the pavement” that used to adorn kent terrace/courtenay place lamposts)

    How did it come to thus? oi akse moisef

    Oh….. and didja know…. Mex Koi is a DeeJay!

    • Stephen 16.1

      Only heard Steve McCabe on school buildings. On the money!

    • Gabby 16.2

      Jesse Mulligan’s smartarse 6th former delivery is irritating. Simon Pound is a bass frog. they’re marginally less annoying than emphysemic mouthbreather Chris Trotter. For fucksake back away from the mike, Trotter!

      • North 16.2.1

        Yeah….Mulligan’s RNZ could easily be Coast or Breeze. Eminently missable indeed approaching unlistenable. Rhema’s bloody near more interesting. From memory he doesn’t have the proudest recent provenance….for a time riding second shotgun to Mutton/Lamb Hosking on Seven PM Sharp ?

        In fact the only afternooon RNZ I anticipate at all is Mensa (Allegedly) Mora. And then only when BFs Boag/Edwards are on. The ‘joshing’ across the Putative Political Divide and the Punch & Judy-ness of them resonates a little I confess. The House & Garden stuff they trot out almost always is sweet as well.

        In a month it’s all the Once-Ferbulous-Aging-Auckland-Glit’s (and ubiquitous silver two-door Merc’ criminally slow up College Hill) that I need !

  14. adam 17

    WOW, Just WOW.

    Clarke and Dawe. Hat tip us over this side of the ditch.

    “Can I get a cup of tea?”

  15. Tautoko Mangō Mata 18

    A discussion on the possible effects of the TPPA on a country’s ability to protect the environment.


  16. Morrissey 19

    The US and UK tried to bring “freedom and democracy” to the Middle East.
    Well, that’s what Waikato’s AL GILLESPIE asserted this afternoon.

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Friday 4 September 2015
    Jim Mora, Steve McCabe, Simon Pound

    The Harvard School of Law, with its monstrous needles-under-the-fingernails enthusiast Alan Dershowitz and his incompetent dean Elena Kagan, has long been the natural home for the academic psychopath; now it looks as if the Waikato School of Law might be giving it a run for its money.

    Last year I praised Waikato University law professor Al Gillespie as “an honorable exception to the troubling collection of cranks and fanatics that are ensconced at Waikato”. [1] And indeed, he is vastly superior to the likes of such Waikato mediocrities as Jacqueline Rowarth, Ron Smith, Willem De Lange and Dov Bing.

    But when you think about it, that’s faint praise. Last month, I was appalled to hear Prof. Gillespie intone, in apparent high seriousness: “To a degree we have to trust the government.” He assured the Panel that in future, governments would have learned their lesson and would never be as secretive as this one has been about the TPPA “negotiations.” [2] That is the sort of complacent, irresponsible statement that Panel sufferers would expect from such regulars as Denise L’Estrange-Corbet, Barry Corbett, David Farrar or Karl Du Fresne.

    Professor Gillespie’s brief appearance on this afternoon’s program raises further questions about his judgement. After Jim Mora and his two guests had spent a couple of minutes sighing about the refugee crisis in Europe, it was time to talk to the designated “expert”—Professor Gillespie. Mora raised a question which he said “a few people have been asking”, i.e., why do we never hear any admission by American and British leaders that they bear a huge responsibility for this disaster?

    Professor Gillespie then spoke for a couple of minutes, but whatever he said was surely rendered null and void by the bizarre statement he made right at the end of his contribution. The United States and Great Britain, he told the panelists, had “tried to bring democracy and freedom to these countries.”

    Perhaps some time in the future Prof. Gillespie should try making that statement to an audience comprising Egyptian democracy activists, Iranians who experienced the American-backed dictatorship of Reza Pahlavi, Iraqis who experienced the American-backed dictatorship of Saddam Hussein, Palestinians, Saudi dissidents, Yemenis, Qataris, Indonesians….

    [1] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-24062014/#comment-837881
    [2] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17082015/#comment-1059852

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