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Open mike 05/02/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 5th, 2020 - 87 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

87 comments on “Open mike 05/02/2020”

  1. James 1

    Believe you are donating to NZ First – then find out your money has been taken by another “foundation”. Sounds like fraud – https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/408843/nz-first-foundation-donor-thought-they-were-giving-to-party

    This is going to be interesting 

    • dv 1.1

      And four 'Natz' are in court on the 25 feb.

      • James 1.1.1

        No they are not. 
        a) we don’t know who it is and 

        b) it’s not national

         

        sad try. 

        • Incognito 1.1.1.1

          The Serious Fraud Office filed criminal charges today against four people in relation to donations paid into a National Party electorate bank account.

          The defendants are scheduled to appear in the Auckland District Court on 25 February.

          https://www.sfo.govt.nz/sfo-files-charges-in-national-party-donations-case

          Maybe stop baiting here, yes?

          • James 1.1.1.1.1

            Yes – and that has been discussed a lot on here. 
             

            however this is a different issue – is potentially very serious and is political. 

            when you believe you are donating to a political party and a seperate entity “takes” the funds without you knowing – it sounds very much like fraud. 
             

            why not discuss it in open mike ?

            • Incognito 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Of course, it is serious and political. So, start a proper debate here that is non-polarising and non-divisive instead of regurgitating the same talking points day-in-day-out and in your idiosyncratic way (AKA baiting). The way things sound are not necessarily the way things are.

              Take it away, James, OM is yours to start the discussion.

            • Enough is Enough 1.1.1.1.1.2

              As much as I want to be wrong, I think NZ First may have complied with the letter of the law, if not the spirit.

              Using multiple related entities to donate $14,995 each, to get past disclosure appears legal, but is clearly dodgy and done solely to get around the intention of the law.

              New Zealand politics would be in a better place without Winston and Shane involved in so it is my hope that this sinks them forever.

              A truly progressive government, without the handbrake of the inherently conservative, bigoted and nasty NZ First party involved is a realistic and likely post election scenario. 

              A Green Labour government is now within our reach.

               

        • bwaghorn 1.1.1.2

          Organised crooks always use minions on the outside to do their dirty work.

    • solkta 1.2

      Not as interesting as watching that Bridge collapse.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    While NZ First and National sling mud at each other, Labour is the real winner.

    • James 2.1

      I disagree NZFirst and labour are joined at the hip. It reflects bad on this government. 

      • Dennis Frank 2.1.1

        Regardless of NZF & Nats competing to see who can do shady donations mishandling best, the most interesting aspect is why all those wealthy capitalists are giving big donations to NZF.  I presume they've decided that National have lost the plot.

        • Graeme 2.1.1.1

          Now they have been doxed they've got no reason to restrict their support to maintain anonymity.  

          Could go two ways, either they'll get scared and abandon NZF or they'll be out for utu.  I don't see Graeme Hart and the others as shrinking violets.  Might get interesting

           

  3. Dennis Frank 3

    The battle for the extreme right is hotting up.  You can assume immigrants from South Africa will know how it ought to be done, particularly if they have Boer in their name.  Dieuwe de Boer knows what's right:

    "When I first saw the New Conservative launch in 2018, I panned the idea. The "new conservatives are just as boring as the old" was my response. I didn't expect to hear much of them ever again, but then something unexpected happened. I got a message from deputy leader Elliot Ikilei, who told me that he had read my critically dismissive review, he thought I had some good points, and he wanted to meet up to talk about it. That one simple olive branch changed my life".

    "He plays up his own Pacific heritage, throws in a few phrases of Samoan and Maori, and says that western culture is superior to all other cultures—it can be adopted by all ethnicities and transcends all cultures. That's a line you won't hear from any politician. "Our civilisation is the greatest ever built," he says with energy and passion. Those statements would likely have been front page news if they had been said anywhere outside of aNew Conservative meeting."

    "Victoria O'Brien, firearms spokeswoman, gave her first speech at this meeting. She was able to demonstrate the importance of the freedom to access information from her own experience of authoritarianism in Singapore. She brings a lot of knowledge and credibility to the New Conservative firearms policy, having been an E-Endorsement holder at the time the recent amendments started to roll in. Like Leighton and Elliot, she expresses her reluctance for getting into politics, but all three are doing this because someone has too. They're worried about losing the country they love to the progressive darkness."

    Only a whiff of Trumpism, but you can see an attempt emerging to ride that wave.  So there's now this website for those with the right minds:  https://www.rightminds.nz/articles/2020-new-conservative-year

    He's even got a sense of humour:  "Between ACT and NC there is also a great chasm on a philosophical level with libertarian individualism pitted against the conservative focus on the family, morality, and nation. I'll tell you what National's philosophy is once I figure it out."

    "New Conservative is building up a grassroots movement and much of their rhetoric is honed in on fighting the culture war. For me, that's key."  Once that type of thinking dominated our country.  In theory, they ought to be able to pull together the remnants of it.  In reality, I suspect too many have died, and the rest have moved on.

    • I Feel Love 3.1

      "Progressive Darkness", heh. 

      • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

        But we ought to feel compassion for those unable to see the light, eh?  Disabilities can be a debilitating affliction.  A cadre of leftist virtue-signallers ought to be sent into the hinterland to enlighten the natives.  The missionary spirit may not be totally dead.  Evangelists may be able to help them see the light in that darkness, so they can wend their way towards it gradually thereafter.

  4. Observer Tokoroa 4

    To : Cognito

    May I ask you to confirm that I have served my 6 month ban. Also, did you receive my email requesting "Simplicity" as a new name.

    many thanks

    • Incognito 4.1

      Yes, your ban finished on 28 Jan.

      No, I did not receive your e-mail about the name change; I don’t have access to the site’s e-mail account. To avoid confusion, I have changed your user handle back to the original.

    • Morrissey 4.2

      I've just finished my six month ban too!smileylaughyes

  5. A 5

    Interesting stat. 

    Hong Kong, 15 infections, 1 death

    Guangdong, 797 infections, no deaths

    • mpledger 5.1

      Because the disease is contagious, you can't treat cases as independent events.  If the disease broke out in a university campus in Guangdong  and in a rest home in Honk Kong then that explains the difference in fatalities and spread without there being any other difference. 

      • A 5.1.1

        That might be true if it were only one Chinese province.  Several minutes into the video a list of several areas (approx 2000 cases) with only a 2 or 3 deaths reported.

        I'm done here.  It is clear that on this site there is no willingness at all to see this for what it is – a serious pandemic which is already causing supply chain disruption.

        Since I love y'all despite you seeing me as a loon, at least take some basic steps:

        – instead of waiting to get sick before buying flu supplies buy them in advance including electrolytes or make them at home in advance

        – buy or make elderberry syrup as this is scientifically proven to lessen symptoms and reduce duration of the illness (+better tasting than olive leaf extract).  The major concern with this virus is the high complication rate that requires hospital admission

        Take care x

        • weka 5.1.1.1

          A, when the last potential pandemic scare happened, we had lots of conversations here with some people *insisting that within so many days/weeks there would massive deaths globally. Didn't happen obviously. The new coronavirus might become a pandemic, but it's not currently. I think we should be taking it seriously, and am glad NZ is now putting boundaries in at the border. I'm cautious about what the impact might be here, but I don't see the need to prepare for this as any more pressing than for a flood or quake.

          mpledger's point about the stats is valid. I was going to say that you can't tell much from such small numbers. There are good reasons why we have public health experts in contagious disease, because they have the experience and knowledge in how to assess what is going on. Keep watching the videos, but I hope you're also following the relevant health authorities and science based commentary online.

        • RedLogix 5.1.1.2

          I don't think everyone here is dismissing your concerns. It's entirely natural that people will vary in their responses to this kind of threat, from the entirely nonchalant to the closed off and fearful … and every shade in between.

          On the data we have so far I think this has the potential to become a major problem, but it's not likely to be a repeat of the 1918 Spanish Flu. Our tools for fighting this are so much more sophisticated now. 

          The big complicating factor for me is that I really don't trust any damn thing the CCP says. Hell they may be telling us the gospel truth on this one, but their track record is so bad how would we know?

    • Matiri 5.2

      "A serious misinfodemic is occurring – fake news, unsubstantiated rumours, and crazy talk are spreading way more than the coronavirus. This is concerning and the World Health Organisation have all hands to deck to try and counter the nonsense."

      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/02/05/1018647/coronavirus-a-global-misinfodemic

  6. ianmac 6

    Is this for real? Could it be revenge?

    Controversial independent MP Jami-Lee Ross is again under investigation after misconduct allegations saw three of the four staff in his Botany office placed on special leave.

    The latest complaints, understood to include bullying, are from the past year and relate to staff in the office he set up as an independent MP after his spectacular falling out with National.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/02/05/1019443/new-allegations-surround-mp-jami-lee-ross

    • Anne 6.1

      Sounds like a possible set-up to me.

      Having been down that road (cost me my career and much more besides) I know how people love to believe a scandal and/or other serious misdemeanors. It is invariably the claimant who has all to hide.

      Time will reveal the truth, it always does.

      • James 6.1.1

        Stop with the victim blaming. People have come forward and laid complaints that are being investigated- and you with zero knowledge say it sounds like a setup.

        They could be very legitimate victims in this.

        • Anne 6.1.1.1

          Stop with the victim blaming.

          Should have known it would be you who came up with that line – a convenient misinterpretation. 

          I know more about what it is like to be a victim of crime and slander than you will ever know. There's a word for people like you you and it ain't nice.

          If they are legitimate we'll know soon enough and that will be the end of the line for JLR.

           

           

          • James 6.1.1.1.1

            You say you know what it’s like to be a victim of slander and what did you do in your first comment “sounds like a possible setup”. – slandering the Victims. 
             

            yeah – all those independent women are setting him up. And having to put up with people like you casting aspersions at them (while claiming how bad it was when people did it to you). 

            • In Vino 6.1.1.1.1.1

              " – slandering the victims."  No.

               – possibly slandering the victims, thankyou.  Anne only said a 'possible' setup.

              If you are going to pose as morally meticulous, please be equally meticulous in your reasoning, and don't exaggerate when it suits you.

            • Anne 6.1.1.1.1.2

              Dear God, you are a creep. You would fit nicely in the world of the chief of creeps, Donald Trump.  

              Who knows if there was a set up. Who knows who might have been behind it if there was one. Who knows whether the office staff were a part of the set up. You're just a nowith an inferiority complex who thinks bullying a woman online makes him a somebody.

              Now off you go – your turn. I'm off to greener pastures.

              • Muttonbird

                James loves to stand up for victims. Unless they are the victims of the alleged Parliamentary 'rapist'.

                It's all in their head, apparently.

                • James

                  I’ll stand up for the victims of rape. 
                   

                  but you know there was no victim of rape and he didn’t rape anyone.  
                   

                  so he’s exactly as guilt of being a rapist as you are. 
                   

                  would you be happy being called a rapist ?  

                  • Muttonbird

                    Your criteria for who you will and will not stand up for is curious. How do you work it out?

                    • Anne

                      James is very good at manipulating a target's comments so as to seemingly mean something else. He chooses his targets carefully and women seem to dominate in his selection.

                      So sad.

                    • Incognito []

                      🙂

              • James

                Your the one who said it sounds like a possible setup – now you say “who knows if there was a setup”. Well the answer to that is not you obviously. 
                 

                but you are happy to suggest or infer it – making it sound like its possibly the women. 
                 

                 

                • McFlock

                  Two women and one man.

                  But it probably sounds worse if he's only accused of bullying women, so good job to you.

                • Anne

                  So, why did you hone in on me. I was agreeing with ianmac who wondered if there was a bit of "revenge" in the mix.  So, I call it a "possible set up". Same thing mate.

                  You chose me because its more satisfying to go after a woman – especially one who is not afraid to call you out for your misogyny and spite.

                • In Vino

                  James:
                  Not 'infer'.  The word you are struggling for is 'imply'.  Look them up.

      • bwaghorn 6.1.2

        Seems like a stretch to believe 3 people would get them selves employed by jlr just so they could drag him down 8 months out from an election hes gonna lose anyway. 

        Add to that he has form for being a shit bag . 

  7. Robert Guyton 7

    Oil giant OMV has already had a serious accident off the coast of Southland and Otago, cutting through its own drill! Good grief! No oil spilled, but only because they haven't got to it yet!

     

    "International oil giant OMV could be millions of dollars out of pocket after accidentally cutting its own drill pipe while operating off the Otago coast."

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/omv-cut-through-drill-shaft-accident

    • weka 7.1

      OMV Australasia senior vice-president Gabriel Selischi told the Otago Daily Times the preventer had been ‘‘unnecessarily engaged’’ during a test by crew on board the COSL Prospector drill ship.

      Oh great, our ocean and coastline is in the hands of people who can't even bring themselves to use honest language about their mistakes.

  8. Dennis Frank 8

    Soper on pork:  "The National leader told the Māori crowd more than once the Government hasn't delivered and that as Prime Minister he'd have a four-lane highway built between Auckland and Whangarei.  Even for Bridges that'd be a long way to roll a pork barrel. It'd be right up there with the 10 bridges he once promised as Transport Minister to rebuild in the Northland byelection that Peters won five years ago."  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12306060

    "Peters apparently wasn't planning to speak but was so incensed he got to his feet and told the crowd that Bridges' super highway would take 68 years to build and doubted whether the youthful Nat would be around to see completed.  The old campaigner had a point but then lost it by quoting Elvis".

    Soper reckons Bridges made a mistake: “It’s as though Bridges has rejected MMP, believing National will be first past the post with 51 percent of the vote at the coming election, something no party has achieved since the electoral system came into being in 1996.” https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12305909

    That was my first impression too. FPP thinking, binary frame. Not just Simon, it would’ve been widely consulted upon. The giveaway is reference since to NZF as part of the troika, so they believe they can defeat Winston by removing his centrist leverage. Big gamble.

    • Incognito 8.1

      The only binary that matters to Simon is winning vs. losing (AKA all or nothing). If NZF drops below 5% and drops out of Parliament it effectively becomes an FPP election.

      • Sacha 8.1.1

        Um, Greens.

        • Incognito 8.1.1.1

          I was lazy and took a shortcut by lumping the Greens together with Labour. My bad. That said, under FPP, the party with the plurality vote is (usually) the winner, which, in this case could by National (again) or Labour.

  9. Ad 9

    The Fiordland-Southland floods are reminiscent of the ones that required the village of Kelso to be removed completely from near Riversdale. Early 1980s. Hasn't happened very often in our history.

     

    • Robert Guyton 9.1

      They're extensive and severe. The Mataura River is a special concern. Everyone there has been wishing no foods at all would occur because of the aluminium dross stored beside the river – now there's a very serious flood happening.

       

    • Poission 9.2

      Hasn't happened very often in our history.

      Hydrology has long term memory ( persistence over long scales) the problem with Noah effects are well documented.

      https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/WR004i005p00909

      As Hurst wrote.

      Although in random events groups of high or low values do occur, their tendency to occur in natural events is greater. … There is no obvious periodicity, but there are long stretches when the floods are generally high, and others when they are generally low. These stretches occur without any regularity either in their time of occurrence or duration

       

      • Ad 9.2.1

        That link didn't work for me. 

        What was the point you were making for this flood area?

        • Poission 9.2.1.1

          The abstract reads as such.

          By ‘Noah Effect’ we designate the observation that extreme precipitation can be very extreme indeed, and by ‘Joseph Effect’ the finding that a long period of unusual (high or low) precipitation can be extremely long. Current models of statistical hydrology cannot account for either effect and must be superseded. As a replacement, ‘self‐similar’ models appear very promising. They account particularly well for the remarkable empirical observations of Harold Edwin Hurst. The present paper introduces and summarizes a series of investigations on self‐similar operational hydrology.

          The importance  of long term memory is well established with Hurst ( in regard to the Nileometer (and the long scales implied)

          Review article here.

          https://arxiv.org/abs/1406.6018

           

    • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3

      Fires and floods abound, yet some still prefer to believe that there is no trend, no evidence of anything out of the ordinary. Try covering your eyes, ears and mouth while holding your nose… ain’t hands wonderful.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperatures_Rising

      • Ad 9.3.1

        You should think again before accusing anyone of climate change denial. 

        Since you don't understand the Southland floods of the late 1970s and early 1980s that I mentioned, you need to exercise your little brain and research New Zealand with a bit more historical depth than Wikipedia.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3.1.1

          Ad, sorry that you interpreted my comment as an accusation directed at you – was not my intent.

  10. aom 10

    What https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119287951/new-allegations-surround-mp-jamilee-ross? Are National worried about Botany and using the usual suspects to muddy the JLR waters?

  11. Andre 11

    Do Germans have a thing about 99? They gave us "99 Red Balloons", now some german loaded 99 phones into a kid's wagon and pulled them around city streets outside Google's office to make a phantom traffic jam on google maps.

    https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/artist-google-traffic-jam-alert-trick-scli-intl/index.html

  12. Dennis Frank 12

    Meanwhile, in UK:  "The idea that anyone could be leftwing and remain, let alone hard left and hard remain, has been completely erased from the narrative of Brexit; despite the fact that this was pretty much the entire Labour party."

    "This is the phase of the Labour leadership contest in which people try and guess at what the candidates believe via means other than what they say."  Ah, would that be because people automatically disbelieve Labour MPs?

    "Starmer currently enjoys a convincing lead among constituency Labour party nominations. The deadline isn’t until Valentine’s Day; so far 231 CLPs have nominated (233 have nominated for deputy), and Starmer has a clear lead, with 138 nominations, and that seems to be accelerating: three-quarters of the local parties that declared over the weekend chose him. Long-Bailey has 58, Nandy 26, Thornberry nine. Historical loyalty to Corbyn (if we can call the past five years a history) is no definite indicator of a nomination for Long-Bailey: North Norfolk and Brent Central nominated Corbyn in both 2015 and 2016, and went for Starmer, while North Devon and Elmet and Rothwell, with the same 2015-16 pattern, chose Long-Bailey."

    "And there are known unknowns, principally which way the 100,000 new joiners will jump, since they weren’t allowed to vote on nominations, but will be allowed to vote on the leader. Internal polling and general hunches suggest that they will be voting against Long-Bailey, on the basis that if you wanted a Corbyn continuity candidate, you’d need a very good reason not to have already been a member."  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/04/labour-leadership-battle-left-right-divide

  13. Robert Guyton 13

    Concern over ouvea premix With peak water flows yet to arrive at Mataura, there is concern about the ouvea premix stored at the Mataura paper mill. Emergency services and others have carried out further flood protection works by sandbagging around the building. However, with 2,660 cumecs of water expected at Mataura at 11.50am it is uncertain what impact this will have on the paper mill. Emergency Management Southland and other agencies have yet to determine what the environmental impact may be. Emergency Management Southland is coordinating with other relevant agencies, including iwi. Ouvea premix can produce ammonia when wet. The risks associated with the premix have been considered when setting the evacuation zones around the paper mill. DO NOT BE COMPLACENT Residents of Wyndham and surrounding low-lying areas should evacuate immediately. The Mataura River is expected to peak with 2,740 cumecs at Wyndham at 3.20pm today. Residents of the township and surrounding low-lying areas should gather key personal belongings and proceed to the Mokoreta Hall or the Mimihau Hall as soon as possible to await further information. Take a grab bag with you containing medication, clothing and personal items including documents. If you are evacuating with pets, ensure they are contained on a leash or in a cage and that you have food for them. The Mataura River was expected to peak at 2,450 cumecs at Gore at 9.20am, and at Mataura with 2,660 cumecs at 11.50am. People in affected areas are warned not to be complacent because the sun is shining and there is no wind. EMS reiterates that the peak flows have yet to arrive. A map outlining the evacuation areas of Gore and Mataura is available on http://www.facebook.com/cdsouthland<https://www.facebook.com/cdsouthland> and http://www.civildefencesouthland.govt.nz<http://www.civildefencesouthland.govt.nz/>

     

  14. Andre 14

    With 62% of precincts reporting in Iowa, there's some interesting patterns emerging.

    Sanders mostly won where there's cities. Rural areas split between Biden, Buttigieg and Klobuchar. Even though Warren was third overall, ahead of Biden and Klobuchar, she didn't win a single county.

    Kinda goes against the idea that Sanders is the candidate most likely to win back those disaffected flyover state voters that turned to the dark side with Darth Drumpf.

    https://edition.cnn.com/election/2020/state/iowa

    edit: heh, Warren got close to her worst result in Pocahontas County with 4.7%

  15. Eco maori 15

    Kia Ora Newshub. 

    It was a good day all around Aotearoa celebrating Waitangi day. 

    Condolences to Kirk Douglas whanau. 

    Yes we need to recycle more but the best option is to stop using plastic all together. The elephant in the room is the huge plastic manufacturing company's have to much influence on other companies that use their rubbish. 

    Ka kite Ano 

  16. Eco maori 16

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News. 

    It was great to see A Wahine speaking at the Marae at Waitangi. 

    Good to see Wahine paddlers on Waka to. 

    Ka pai to the Australian indigenous people for going for a treaty settlement of their own for losses to the Australian government.

    Its awesome to see Tangata whenua getting the respect we deserve I have seen the attitude other cultures had towards Maori a couple of years ago in Tamiki Makaru. 

    Ka kite Ano 

  17. Eco maori 17

    Kia Ora The Am Show. 

    Of course our migrants and their cultures should be treated respectfully. 

     We do need more Maori in  Media and broadcasting telling good stories about Maori not just the negative stuff.

    Its shows someone has no morels.

    A new dawn for race relations is great for Aotearoa.

    Ka kite Ano 

  18. Eco maori 18

    Kia Ora Newshub. 

    Its good to see Maori tau toko Maori. 

    There you go a big company trying to take advantage of people CPB. 

    Glacier are vanishing before our eyes in Antarctica. The positive news in now most people know the cause is human caused climate change.

    Ka kite Ano 

     

  19. Eco maori 19

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News. 

    Good to see all the Ropu in the Kapa Haka in Opotiki.

    Its awesome to see Counties Manakau changing their system to deliver a better health service to Maori and Pacific tangata.

    Ka pai to the indigenous culture gathering in Hawaii to show the Papatuanuku Our Great Cultures and teach the tamariki how great their cultures are. 

    I think that the changes to RadioNZ and TVNZ is good if you don't adapt you no what happens.

    Ka kite Ano 

  20. Eco maori 20

    Donna was helping her tangata not herself it shows with all the tau toko she has kia kaha. 

  21. Eco maori 21

    Kia Ora Newshub. 

     Climate change is the cause of Antarctica warning temperature Ka pai.

    The farmarmy is doing great mahi it looks like the grass is still ok. 

    The Gay Pride Parade looks like a good day kia kaha.

    Alcohol causes heaps of harm to our society I think those bars should be treated like all other bars. 

    Ka kite Ano. 

  22. Eco maori 22

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News. 

    That's awesome that Rangitane has had their Pukaha reserve returned as part of their Treaty Settlement.

    Good that interest in Te reo Māori is starting to grow fast.

    Te Ka pa Haka was great in Opotiki today.

    Ka kite Ano 

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  • Over $1 million to help Tairāwhiti youth into employment
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  • Crown and Moriori sign a Deed of Settlement
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    7 days ago
  • Applications invited for $7 million Regional Culture and Heritage Fund
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  • Budget 2020 date announced
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  • Prime Minister’s tribute to former Prime Minister Mike Moore
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  • Crown accounts in good shape to counter global challenges
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  • Government support for communities impacted by flooding
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