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Open mike 05/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:31 am, August 5th, 2014 - 206 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

206 comments on “Open mike 05/08/2014 ”

  1. mickysavage 1

    So Michelle Boag is doing work for Kim Dotcom’s Mega. I guess if the price is right …


    • The Al1en 1.1

      “Dotcom no longer appears on the share register for Mega, although his estranged wife Mona continues to hold some 16 percent of the company, as does an apparent associate, Wolf Dieter Ortmann. The majority shareholder today is a Hong Kong-based donor to New Zealand’s governing National Party, Shen Zhao Wu, with an 18 percent shareholding.”

      A nat donor is mega’s biggest shareholder as well as having Boag on the scene. No, this doesn’t look good for the committed lefty with gifts for NZ.
      Shows not only does money buy cheap politicians, but also enough wool to cover their greedy eyes.

      Still, maybe some of the less gullible amongst us will start switching on any time about now.

      • Wonderpup 1.1.1

        It’s a mistake to think that people involved with technology are necessarily progressive. The liberal spectrum (which the internet party appeals to) ranges from libertarian gun nuts (Eric Raymond) to progressive lefties (Lawrence Lessig).

        The youth that are getting politicised by this could go either way – and so could a party based on their platform. Involvement from the established libertarian right wing is to be expected, as this movement looks exactly like the scrappy start-up they are used to absorbing, idea-asset-stripping and eventually discarding.

        • The Al1en

          I’ve no reason to agree or disagree otherwise with your first paragraph. It’s not a point I’ve ever made or laboured.

          As for youth being politicised, again no argument from me, although it’s a shame for some of them their first exposure to politics will be totally disingenuous horse trading and pork barrelling, which will, I’m sure, turn many off altogether.

          As for the party direction, well, it will be whatever kdc wants it to be. Left/right/center, which ever is most expedient and self serving.

          But nat donor is biggest shareholder in megal, that’s a who(a)re moment for the ‘principled’ mana.

          • Chooky

            Laila Harre i have great faith in!….and also Hone Harawira.!..both would NOT sell out the Left …and it is NOT in Dotcoms interests to do so either

            …if you want to win a war sometimes you have to get help from the likes of Boag who is really a mercenary up for the money from any side …if she is the best they can find, then why not? …also it will soften them in the eyes of some potential voters

            …the youth so politicised to vote Internet Party do not have a beef with the Mana Party and will probably continue to vote for them if the Internet party is disestablished, which i thought it would be sometime after the Election

            • veutoviper

              ” … if the Internet party is disestablished, which i thought it would be sometime after the Election”

              I don’t have time to check the Internet Mana alliance agreement right now, but my understanding is that the agreement provides for the alliance to be reviewed six weeks after the election. This review could lead to the continuation, or dissolution, of the alliance between the two parties – not the disestablishment of the Internet Party. If the alliance is dissolved, then the two parties would continue as separate parties.

              • Pasupial


                The IMP alliance can split anytime it chooses to (with a weeks notice), but we’re hoping that we’ll be able to work together for the longterm. The; “six weeks after the 2014 General Election”, has been played-up by many as a point of instability. But it is really just a nominal deadline for a review of how the alliance has functioned after the distraction of campaigning is done with.

                The most likely reason for a split at that point would be if a third party felt that it was unable to work with one of the constituent parties. But I think that we’d be reluctant to accede to such coercion unless it was an absolute necessity in changing the government. The allied IP & MANA on the crossbenches would be likely more effective together giving C&S, plus support on an issue by issue basis, than one group of (say; IP, given NZFs antiMANA stance) MPs getting minor ministerial positions as payment for repudiating their allies.

                either component party may give seven days written notice of their intention to terminate this agreement. The notice must state the reasons for the party wanting to terminate the agreement and must give an opportunity for the New Party Council to meet and for the other party to respond to the initiating party’s notice at least three days before it takes effect… this agreement will remain in force until at least six weeks after the 2014 General Election polling day. The component parties will meet together within five weeks of the 2014 General Election to review the agreement.


                • given the dynamics/shared goals between mana and the internet party..

                  (..and the rapport both party leaders/members enjoy with each other..)

                  ..i wd be very surprised if that six week post-election escape-clause was activated..

                  ..i for one have supported this proposed coming-together since day one..

                  ..and am working to support/help them with the expectation that working together will continue/flourish in the next parliament..

                  ..not end post-election..

                • veutoviper

                  An excellent comment, Pasupial. Thanks.

                  Much clearer than my rushed attempt to point out that the Internet Party is very unlikely to be disestablished after the election – and that the alliance agreement provides for ‘review’ not ‘dissolution’ after the election.

                  The continual spin that the has been put out that the alliance agreement would be dissolved (rather than just reviewed) six weeks after the election has really annoyed me and has been intended to suggest instability, as you say.

            • Puckish Rogue

              To paraphrase Ted Dibiase: “Everybodys got a price for the Million Dollar Man” and KDC found the price for Hone, Laila and Michelle

              • pr..how do you feel about those who contribute large monies to the right..?

                ..do you also scorn them..and those politicians who accept..?

                ..or are you saving it all up for internet/mana..?

                ..and have you never before come across the syndrome of wealth being directed the way of progressive political parties..?

                ..not every wealthy person is a greedy/uncaring-scum-sack…eh..?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Its good to know that politicians on the left are as open to being bought and paid for as politicians on the right

                  Everyones the same which is nice 🙂

                  • @ pr..

                    ..r u really as dim as yr words make you appear..?

                    ..so..in yr simplified world..any politician who accepts financial donations to their party is inherently corrupt..?..

                    ..and ‘bought’..?..beholden to the donor..?

                    ..what a bleak/cynical world you inhabit there..p.r..

              • Clemgeopin

                Key found New Zealand to wreck its people and our country for the long haul for the primary benefit of the wealthy at tremendous price to the rest of the population. At least KDC has been transparent about his political dealings.

            • infused

              Did you miss the part where Hone already sold out?

            • Draco T Bastard

              if you want to win a war sometimes you have to get help from the likes of Boag who is really a mercenary up for the money from any side …if she is the best they can find, then why not? …also it will soften them in the eyes of some potential voters

              Neither Mega nor Boag have anything to do with the Internet Party.

              the youth so politicised to vote Internet Party do not have a beef with the Mana Party and will probably continue to vote for them if the Internet party is disestablished, which i thought it would be sometime after the Election

              the Internet Party will continue because of it’s inclusive decision making. IMO, That’s what makes a party survive over time.

          • Wonderpup

            Oops, I didn’t mean to imply you were mistaken, I was just soliloquising. I’m talking about the Internet part of Internet/Mana. I’m hoping Mana can exploit this opportunity to become a permanent part of the left, as I have more than a sneaking regard for their position. I can imagine the Internet part fracturing faster than a Trotskyist Tea party though.

        • Draco T Bastard

          The party will go the way the party decides. It has a very open and democratic process of discussing and deciding upon policies.

      • Bearded Git 1.1.2

        Dotcom sounded eloquent and in fine form talking to Brent Edwards on Morning Report this morning explaining how Key’s secret raid on his house had brought about a change in his life and touring with the IMP roadshow had brought home to him the problems in NZ being ignored by Key who only represented the top 1% and corporate interests. KDC said he had never criticised Labour.

        There was another later report from IMP’s well attended (300 people) meeting in Wellington where it was made plain IMP would not support the TPP deal.

        Fantastic publicity for IMP and both reports well worth a listen.

        • The Al1en

          Cool story bro, but hardly relevant. He’s sucked up the gullible left while his companies biggest shareholder donates to key.

          I’m not surprised you’re having to spin for kim.

          • The Al1en

            “Shen Zhao Wu with 18.3 percent, a regular donor to the National Party through his Contue Jinwan Enterprise Group. Contue donated $49,220.18 to National in January”

            Nearly as much as kim to Banks, though I doubt Shen wrote anonymous cheques, even after thinking it an insult.

            “Shen and his wife, Susan Chou, were reported by the New Zealand Herald to have made a $200,000 donation in 2010.”

            Tories and their donations, eh!

          • veutoviper

            ” … his companies biggest shareholder donates to key.”

            Mega is no longer KDC’s company. IIRC KDC divested himself of his interest/shares in the company in about Oct/Nov 2013.

            You yourself @ 2 above quoted from the NBR article which MS linked to @ 1 to the effect that KDC is no longer listed as a shareholder, although his estranged wife, Mona DC, still retains 16% of the shares.

            So it is incorrect IMHO to still refer to Mega as KDC’s company if he no longer has any financial interest in, or control over, Mega.

            Although I have seen nothing to support this, the sale of KDC’s shares in Mega may well be a source of the money that he has given to the Internet Party. Just speculation on my part.


            Here are the two Morning Report items on KDC and last night’s IM Road Show meeting in Wellington.



            • The Al1en

              Actually, more recent than that as told on stuff and tvnz sites today, but yeah, still kim’s company. Happy to call it kims old company though.

              “The Dotcom family’s share in Mega has fallen to 16.2 per cent and the share owned by chief technology officer Mathias Ortmann, who was understood to be in day-to-day charge of the firm, after former chief executive Stephen Hall stepped down, dropped to 16.6 per cent.”

              Way I see it, that’s 33% control.


            • phillip ure

              dotcom is very believable when he talks (in that interview..) of having his eyes opened to the poverty/inequality in new zealand..

              ..one thing you can be sure from this roadshow all over new zealand..

              ..is that harwira and sykes have made sure to show him the realities of that poverty..

              ..and i’m guessing dotcom has also grasped that economics 101-fact..

              ..that the best/fastest way to stimulate/enliven an economy…

              ..is to increase the incomes of those who are the poorest..

              ..for the simple fact that money churns back into the economy straight away..

              ..used buying the basics/services of life…

              ..and this if course is one of the strongest arguments for a universal basic income..

              ..on the ‘moral’-level..yes..it will end poverty…

              ..but it will also stimulate the economy…

              ..(and it has long puzzled me..that mote in the rights’ eyes..

              ..that they think it is a good idea to have a poverty-stricken underclass..

              ..an underclass unable to purchase their widgets/trinkets..(!)..).

              ..the proof of that ec. 101 maxim was also seen in the retail-recession that followed ‘strewth’ richardsons mother-of-all-budgets/gutting of state-support…in the name/cause of rogernomics..

              ..’cos that money was sucked straight out of retailers/service-providers bottom-lines..

              ..i guess they must be blinded/eye-moted by their randian-ideological-beliefs..eh..?

              ..those dumbarse rightwingers..

          • Pasupial

            T Allen

            It is no longer his company – as you yourself have noted; “Dotcom no longer appears on the share register for Mega”. Even Baboom has fallen a bit by the wayside as he has concentrated his energies upon the election.

            If I were to sell a car which was then bought by a Boagan who promptly pranged it into the nearest lamp-post because they’d flogged off the brakes would that be my fault?

            As for your relentless assault upon the IMPs; could you please change the record? Yes, I get that you don’t trust us, or the IP founder. But your time might be better spent in discussing the policies &/or advantages of voting for the party that you do support, rather than incessantly dissing a tactical ally. The one undeniable thing about KDC & the IMP alliance is that we are committed to ousting the National government.

            Unless you’d rather lose with purity, than compromise with those with whom you have disagreements?

            • Tiger Mountain

              +1 Pasupial

            • The Al1en

              Baboom has fallen by the wayside because it’s investor shy.

              “could you please change the record?”

              Sorry, can’t do that. Politicians being bought my money doesn’t sit easily, and just because it’s on the left, doesn’t make it all of a sudden good.
              You’re tainted by kim. You didn’t have to do a deal. Caveat emptor.

              “a tactical ally”

              Last cab of the rank tactical ally.

              “The one undeniable thing about KDC & the IMP alliance is that we are committed to ousting the National government.”

              The gullible might believe it, the self serving totally reliant on it.

            • The Al1en


              It’s about principles and as I see it, a lack of them on the extreme left. Sue Bradford has them, and I’m pleased she never sold them or herself out, and she was forced out by the blind, greedy and gullible at mana.
              I wrote ages ago that for some, kdc was their last, best hope at ousting key, which apart from being wrong, speaks volumes about the strength of their own message and conviction in their personnel, especially when you consider Harre aside (though not by much), what has come after – A singer and a list of nobodies.

              mana is a really small party, less than act, less than the conservatives and maybe slightly bigger than uf. It doesn’t belittle hh’s representation of his electorate, but reached the limits of popularity vote wise is about correct.
              Of all the parties shown the cash, only hone took it. It’s dirty, and I hope it backfires. 🙂

              • Pasupial

                T Allen

                I take it you mean Chris Yong by; “a singer”, though I think of him more as guitarist/ producer. Not being from Aotearoa, I wouldn’t expect you to have much of an inkling about the local music scene; just accept that he is a respected figure.

                You reluctantly concede that Laila Harré is notable, if you care at all about Kiwi culture then you have to admit the same about Yong. So, of the three IP candidates likely to make it into parliament (no meant offense to Currin, but 8 IMP MPs this election is far less likely than 6) that leaves us:

                Miriam Pierard – most notable for her work as the spokesperson for Aotearoa Is Not For Sale movement, but you may also have read her posts on TDB. A committed activist, only someone entirely ignorant of the NZ left would claim that she is a part of “a list of nobodies”.


                So, that’s the IP likely MPs, How about MANA? Their top 3 are; Hone Harawira, Annette Sykes, John Minto. Again, only someone entirely ignorant of the NZ left would claim that are a part of “a list of nobodies”. I’m not familiar with the 4th ranked MANA candidate (7th on joint list); James Papali’i, but as “Mangere East Labour Branch Party for the past 15 years”, he certainly has a presence in the Auckland Samoan community.


                • veutoviper

                  +1 again, Parsupial.

                  I am particularly impressed with Miriam Pierard.

                  Her posts on TDB are well worth reading for their depth for one so young. Her speech to Women’s Refuge at the same synposium as Cunliffe’s well discussed speech, is a must read

                  Miriam also gave a very good interview on Sunday Mornings with Wallace Chapman last Sunday.

                • The Al1en

                  If they weren’t nobodies they wouldn’t need kim’s loot to advance them towards electability, but you have to say that, don’t you?

                  I surmise
                  The internet party, harre aside have kapisi as a ‘youth drawcard’ and no-one.

                  hone at mana may or may not get in depending on how well KD plays his hand. 55/45 at the moment, but could easily become to close to call.
                  sykes might get in if the maori party vote collapses, but after she represented the owners of the dog that savaged the rotorua child the other year, hopefully not.
                  minto would never get in without the dosh.

                  • bad12

                    Your pathetic personal attacks deserve only this 🙄 Alien, you are simply revealing yourself as one sad, sick (expletive deleted),

                    Everyone has the right to be represented when charged in a court of law, guess what Annette Sykes does for a crust besides campaigning as a politician…

                    • The Al1en

                      “revealing yourself as one sad, sick (expletive deleted),”

                      What? For not swallowing the mip marriage, or because I don’t respect sykes for defending the owners of a dog which savaged a child, maybe to save them having to pay out compo?

                      “Everyone has the right to be represented when charged in a court of law,guess what Annette Sykes does”

                      Ah, the latter.

                      Not the sort I want representing me or mine in court or in politics.

              • Draco T Bastard

                A singer and a list of nobodies.

                Just because you haven’t heard of them doesn’t make them nobodies. If you have a look throughout history some of the greatest leaders started off as people who weren’t well known but they worked their way through the opposition anyway. As far as I’m concerned Key is a nobody and Cunliffe isn’t much better because they both represent the height of success in a failed system.

                mana is a really small party, less than act, less than the conservatives and maybe slightly bigger than uf.

                Actually, it’s consistently polled higher than those others combined.

              • bad12

                Another saddo’s comment Alien, Bradford was ‘forced out’, i again laughed out loud, naive to describe your commentary would be ‘mild’,

                If you really want to get down and dirty with the ‘personal’ how bout we discuss the two free trips to China extended Sue’s way, any ‘influence’ used there and where that ‘influence’ might have come from…

                • The Al1en

                  Sue’s record speaks for itself, I don’t have to defend her.

                  I used the word “personnel”, but if you want to go with “personal”, fire away to yourself.

        • Molly

          I attended a few of the GCSB events in Auckland – before the Snowden revelations and before the legislation was passed when Kim Dotcom was in attendance.

          On two occasions, my location put me directly in line with Kim Dotcom while the other speakers were talking. Both times I returned home to my partner, and said that watching his face during the talks was informative, as he seemed both invigorated and humbled by what was being said.

          Most speakers spoke from a perspective of “equal justice” and “equal rights” for all NZ’ers – not support for Kim Dotcom as a person – but the context put his rights (along with everyone elses) front and centre, and I’m surmising here – but those kind of conversations are not likely to be found in the company of John Banks et al.

          From those admittedly small glimpses of the man, I’m willing to accept the fact that he has had a political awakening of sorts. As regular readers and commentors on this site – we should at least be able to understanding how addictive that can be.

          I’m just appreciative of the fact that this time his financial support went to the party he deems worthy – rather than that which would benefit him personally.

      • bad12 1.1.3

        i laughs out loud, it is so funny to hear the constant whine about DotComs money, who is connected to the Mega company etc etc,

        Tell us Alien who is it exactly you plan to vote for, who is it you support that is so holier than thou, so pure and pristine, unsullied by the cash of the corporates,

        Which Party of the left is not sucking on the teat of corporate cash Alien???

        You claim ‘some here’ should wake up, i suggest you go look in the mirror….

        • The Al1en

          “Tell us Alien who is it exactly you plan to vote for”

          I’ve said it many times before, Moroney electorate, party vote Green.

          “Which Party of the left is not sucking on the teat of corporate cash Alien”

          If you see kdc’s money as simply “corporate cash” and not the blatant attempt at buying politicians it is.

          • bad12

            Right Alien, and you do not see of course the Green Party taking big money off of the corporates as anything but corporate altruism right,

            Take off the blinkers, Green and Labour have their hands in the same pockets for the same reasons…

            • The Al1en

              The blinkers, given the context of mana voters and kim, that is funny.

              I’m a red/green voter not an apologist or party member, but according to the elections site, one person gave over 30k to each totalling $60,000 G and $64,999 L. Labour also had another 50k and a 430k estate plus a union donation.
              I wouldn’t know how many corporates donated less than the declarable figure, and I suspect, unless told, neither would you.
              Again, it comes down to whether you see kim as a corporate donor, or motive driven, agenda setting, politician buying sort of bloke, and whether hone has been played and bought.

              I get why you mip sorts are pissed at the criticism, because I’m sure it’s something you’d rather see swept under the rug of denial, but it is what it is.


    • @ m.s..

      “..So Michelle Boag is doing work for Kim Dotcom’s (former company) Mega..”

      ..there ya go..!..corrected that for ya..

      ..so that proves boag will work for (professed) enemies..

      ..and what else..?..exactly..?

      • phillip ure 1.2.1

        and election nite is going to be a big disappointment for those here who have long sneered at the very idea of internet/mana..having any success..

        ..even that voice-of-the-right..’hoots’..is now saying 4-5 internet/mana mp’s is pretty much a given..

        ..i think it will be more..

        • Bearded Git

          Agreed on IMP Phillip-they will surprise. 7% I reckon’

          Talking of election night, voting actually starts on 3rd September-that is 29 days away.

          Good idea to help any Left voters who might not be able to get along on the 20th to get to an Advanced Vote polling place between 3/9 and 19/9.

  2. stever 2

    Final proof, if it were needed, that the ideologues of the right are shameless. And that the state runs some enterprises better than the private sector ever can:


  3. vto 3

    Funny how Key says we don’t need to own assets…

    when his entire personal wealth position is owning assets ….

    the far right

    hypocrites and liars

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      they don’t want the people to own assets because that removes the people from the power and control of the rich.

  4. vto 4

    Funny how Key says he doesn’t want to see us as tenants in our own land

    then allows transactions which result in us becoming tenants in our own land

    the far right

    hypocrites and liars

    • DJ 4.1

      This is Cullen and Labour back in 2007 after the sale of Poronui.

      “We welcome foreign investment that has real benefits for New Zealand. Westervelt plans to expand the hunting business and market the lodge more aggressively overseas, which will help our tourism profile.

      “This is further proof that the process introduced by the Overseas Investment Act in 2005 to ensure land sales benefit New Zealand is working.”

      This was from one American company to another American company. I understand no Chinese involved, but still no Kiwi investment and no block from labour.

      Hypocrisy much?

      • phillip ure 4.1.1

        @ dj..

        ..roberston..during that brawl with joyce..said that labour has recognised they were wrong..(on allowing wholesale land-sales..)

        ..and cunnliffe has noted that he is running a different labour to the last labour govt..

        ..so yr quote from cullen (circa 2007)..is kinda irrelevant..eh..?


        • Bearded Git

          Agreed-surely parties are allowed to change their mind and reformulate policy as facts and public opinion change? This is what Cunliffe/Labour are doing.

          Key/National are simply behind the 8-ball on this issue (mostly because Key supports an unfettered free market) and are now even at odds with their mates at Fed Farmers.

          • phillip ure

            this (what is recycled green/nz first) policy will be a winner for labour..

            ..and a big loser for national/key..

            ..the public mood has moved from indifference on this..

            ..and this is the peril for key/national/the right..

        • Puckish Rogue

          Labour have agreed (now that they’re out of power) they were wrong

      • ropata 4.1.2

        “but labour did it too” is no excuse dickwad

      • vto 4.1.3

        No DJ, not hypocrisy at all. I opposed that sale as much as this one. maybe you weren’t around then.

        There is no benefit to having foreign landlords. None. That has been my position for a very long time. My vote turns on this exact issue, such is its importance to the long term strength of our society and communities.

        So don’t equate me with Cullen and Labour – I helped vote them out and this was one of the main reasons. I even exchanged some correspondence with Cullen over it.

        But if you wish to discuss Labour – I imagine they are slowly changing their policy around foreign ownership of our land. For three reasons… one, political parties change policies over time as the world changes around them. Two, they are beginning to understand the wisdom of not having foreign landlords. Three, they see that this is what the people of NZ actually want.

        So be careful with the assumptions and accusations as now you just have mud on your face.

        • nadis

          “So don’t equate me with Cullen and Labour”

          I think you really mean:

          Clark, Cullen, Cunliffe, Parker, Robertson, King, Mahuta, Cosgrove, Hipkins, Moroney, Sio, Street, Goff, Mackey, Huo, O’Connor, Mallard, Dyson, etc.

          With the exception of Clark & Cullen – who you “voted against” everybody else on that list was a member of the last labour government, or a senior staffer for Clark, an MP now, and standing in this election.

          You must have a lot of faith in the ability of tigers to change their stripes.

          • vto

            Politicians do that all the time though nadis. Tigers never.

            Anyway, that wee comment on Labour in no way means my vote will be going their way. I am sure you are aware that the Greens and Mana have very robust policies around foreign ownership of our country.

            and of course so do Winston and Colin, but they change their stripes way too often and are highly untrustworthy, especially the Winston.

      • tricledrown 4.1.4

        DJ to give it another spin,thats partly why labour got voted out last time and is languishing at 30% in the polls Dear in the headlights John.
        John Key will be their to if he carries on being hypocritical.
        But unlike labour Key has put his foot in mouth big time and said we can’t become tenants in our own land then done the opposite.
        The Media have had a field day (sarc farmers joke) dining out on brain fade Keys own quotes!
        maybe you should write him a letter Dear leader or better still Dear John

  5. Michael Nolan 5

    Okay so I am trying to stay positive, and it has been great to see so many of the MPs and members starting to stick to the positive message. But can someone please punch Kelvin Davis in the throat so he cannot talk until election day? Us members on the doorsteps trying to convince the people we have a positive message are getting pretty fucking sick of self-centered MPs contradicting that.

    • Bearded Git 5.1

      Cunliffe said on Morning Report today that Labour head office has “given Davis some guidance”.

      • phillip ure 5.1.1

        preferably to go and do serial-laps of ninety mile beach..

        ..between now and sept. 20th..

        • nadis

          The Davis situation is a glorious cock up and completely unnecessary. What do you expect Davis to do? Labour gives him an unwinnable place in the list and then expects him to roll over and not compete in the electorate?

          For someone supposedly as brilliant at strategy as McCarten, and a self described genius like Cunliffe, this treatment of Davis is a clusterfck of epic proportions.

          So simple to avoid, yet this stupid, stupid strategic decision could be the reason why the left is unable to cobble together a majority coalition. If nothing else it will continue to rip maori support – esp in Te Tai Tokerau – away from Labour.

          • Bearded Git

            Nadis don’t make things up.

            Davis will be in parliament on the list if Labour gets about 28.5%. The most accurate of the polls now has then at 30% and rising, and this before the recent excellent policy releases on minimum wage, work for young people, Joyce’s disastrous appearance on The Nation and National getting on the wrong side of the selling farmland overseas issue.

            A vote for Hone in Te Tai Tokerau will get you both Hone and Davis.

            • Tiger Mountain

              That’s correct Kelvin does not have a subterranean list position, if Labour performs as it needs to he will easily be in parliament.

            • Puckish Rogue

              If Labour gets 28.5% and one poll (out of many) has Labour on 30% whereas the rest of the polls have Labour below 28.5%

              So if you’re K. Davis and you want to be in parliament its a helluva gamble to make when its your job on the line

              • Te Reo Putake

                The one poll out of many is the only one that’s the least bit accurate, PR. It also, so I’m told, mirrors what both the Nats and Labours’ internal polling says. Davis is going to be an MP, one way or the other. Whether he’s going to be a good MP is the only unknown at the moment.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  He seems to be a good man

                  • McFlock

                    That would be one of them conundrae, I guess:

                    Morally bankrupt liar says that X is good.
                    1: Is the liar telling another lie in the hope that we think X is good when X is, in fact, bad?
                    2: Or is the liar aware of his reputation and is therefore telling the truth in the knowledge that people will think he is lying and so think that X is bad?
                    3: Or is the morally bankrupt liar completely disinterested and merely saying something true on the grounds that it will microscopically improve the liar’s standing for when the liar wishes to go with option 1 on another matter?

                    4: who gives a shit what the morally bankrupt liar says, anyway?

            • nadis

              thats fair. I thought he needed about 34% but you are right, depending on electorate seats he could get in as low as 28% which Labour have a high chance of exceeding.

              Not sure if that makes the current imbroglio more or less amusing given how unnecessary it is.

              • Puckish Rogue

                My point though is that hes dealing with his career based on a gamble on what may or may not happen whereas he can go hard and try to guarantee his win

              • Bearded Git

                Thanks nadis- much appreciated.

                By the way my theory is that Davis has been told to act like a prat so that Labour voters will be happy to candidate vote Hone.

                IMHO this clever strategy is working really well.

      • McFlock 5.1.2


        Guidance from the school of Malcolm Tucker, maybe.

    • From Hone

      MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira
      Mon 3 Aug 2014

      “If there’s any truth to what I have seen today, then somebody’s head should roll” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira when told of emails suggesting Kelvin Davis’ campaign team in Tai Tokerau was planning to launch an attack campaign against him with money solicited from National.

      “Changing the government is going to be tough enough – it’ll be bloody impossible if Labour does dirty deals with National” said Harawira.

      “National has been directly responsible for driving up unemployment, homelessness, ill health, and poverty for Maori right across the north” said Harawira. “I’m trying to get rid of them and Kelvin Davis and his crew are doing deals with them!”

      “I’m gutted, and Maori in Tai Tokerau will be seriously troubled that Davis and his mates are cozying up to the people who have caused so much damage to our communities”

      “And don’t buy this rubbish about me having more money because of Kim Dotcom either” said Harawira. “You’re only allowed to spend $25,000 anyway and I’d already banked mine before MANA signed its deal with the Internet Party”

      “Where does this go now?”

      “As a matter of principle, Davis should either admit that he knew what was going on here and resign, or state categorically that he didn’t and sack his campaign team”

      “Either way, he owes the people of the north an apology”

      I hope this story is incorrect.

      The move comes after it was revealed a smear campaign was being planned against the incumbent.

      A series of emails leaked to 3 News showed Davis’ campaign team had designed a website to attack Harawira and his financial backer, Internet Party founder Kim Dotcom.

      In a message to Labour Party general secretary Tim Barnett, a member of Davis’ campaign team, Kaye Taylor said the fight in the northern electorate was “unique”.

      “We are fighting against Hone who is being funded by a multi-millionaire, who is frankly trying to buy his way into parliament,” she wrote.

      “The website is confrontational, as it is a wake-up call, it’s not aimed at traditional supporters. Honestly, I think National supporters may contribute.”


      Dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

      • Te Reo Putake 5.2.1

        Your second quote proves that Hone was lying when he said it was a dirty deal with National, Marty. No deal, just wishful thinking from someone on the LEC team hoping that some Nat supporters might contribute financially. Despite all the rhetoric, I think Hone knows he is in trouble in the seat and Davis has the edge. Hence the bluster and bullshit.

        • marty mars

          Hone said as his first line, “If there’s any truth to what I have seen today, then somebody’s head should roll…” I think that disproves the lie aspect. Does it disturb you that someone on the LEC team was hoping that? Oh and got the website underway.

          I’ll also add that framing the statement that way is good politics, 101 even – it lets you say what you want to say and still have an escape clause and everyone knows it so quite transparent yet effective.

          • Te Reo Putake

            Not quite. The lie is in the headline (Labour sells out to National) and this line: “I’m trying to get rid of them and Kelvin Davis and his crew are doing deals with them!”

            Both are bullshit.

            As to the proposed website, the party leadership was right to knock it on the head as soon as they knew about it. What I take from the whole thing is that an LEC member got carried away, the would be MP didn’t spot the problem quickly enough, but the internal party apparatus worked as it should to stop it in its tracks.

            Just to clarify the latter part, all LEC’s and candidates have to have ads/hoardings/websites etc vetted before they go live. And this shows why. Vote Positive! 😉

            • marty mars

              I suppose it shows that it is now the time of the patu – a pity.

            • Anne

              In the past, there has been the odd L.P. member doing or saying idiotic things and nearly bringing the party into disrepute.

              Back in the 1970s and 80s there was a former Mt.Albert member who had a habit of ringing various journos making statements of fiction about Labour personnel. Fortunately only one newspaper listened to her and no prizes for guessing it was The Truth newspaper.

        • Puckish Rogue

          As you know I’m a National voter so this is good news but what I don’t get is why K. Davis wasn’t offered a decent place on the list?

          If Labour get 28.5% of the vote he might get in but then if a couple of electorates go Labours way (Gosgrove anyone?) then hes a gonner so why didn’t Labour place him highly on the list and avoid all this?

          • BM

            External genitalia.

            • Bob

              Hey, at least they can say they have a higher % of female MP’s when they loose the next election due to the in-fighting caused by needing more females ahead of Kelvin Davis on the list.
              Winning isn’t everything and they will still get a certificate of participation.

          • Weepus beard

            It’s clear Davis is, in the Shane Jones mould, not a team player.

            Maybe they don’t trust him? I know I don’t.

            • Hami Shearlie


              • I don’t trust him either –

                “National’s pollster David Farrar and Whaleoil blogger Cam Slater both donated about $100 to Mr Davis’ campaign after a Facebook post Mr Davis wrote criticising Kim Dotcom and the deal with Internet Mana, and asking for donations.”


                he is a liability inducing loose cannon

                • blue leopard

                  plus + 2 to Weepu’s Beard and Marty Mars 🙁

                  Dear Mr McCully,

                  About those jobs you create for Labour party politicians. I have another who would be just excellent for one of those positions.

                  Please would you jack one up for him too?


                  Thank you so much

                • mickysavage

                  Opportunistic media grabbing by them. $200 bucks and they get a major article in the Herald. Kelvin’s response, to give the money to Women’s Refuge, was very good.

                  • Yep his response, when he found himself in the corner of his own making, was quite good – I don’t mind a bit of rope-a-dope but less dope more rope would be good from him. Frankly the whole mess is an embarrassment and doesn’t bode well for his time in parliament if he gets in that is.

                  • Clemgeopin

                    I have a bad feeling that Kelvin Davies will be a liability for Labour in the long run just as John Tamihere and Shane Jones were.

                    I hope I will be proved wrong.

                    Pity he was given a fairly high place on the list. I wonder why the wise selection committee put him lower at the last election!
                    He has demeaned Labour by his tactics, bringing Labour into disrepute and on the back foot. We can do without this sort of crap.

                    May be in the future, the party members should have a more significant say in the selection of candidates. I can think of hundreds of citizens who would be more worthy of place on the Labour list.

        • phillip ure

          “.. I think Hone knows he is in trouble in the seat and Davis has the edge..”

          dream on trp..eh..?

          .got any facts/stats to back that..?

          ..or just a random orifice-pluck..?

          • Skinny

            Your got that right Phil he is in trouble of holding out Davis. Plenty of people have seen Kelvin and his team helping out with the flood relief during the bad weather up North. Meanwhile Hone & Dotcom are on the road together giving the impression of living it up. Mega rich Dotcom with his up market euro helicopter and his flash limo is too far removed from sticking to the kopapa of his rohe. I hope for Mana they have plan C in Sykes as a back up to plan B of getting over 5%.

            • phillip ure

              u seem confused about my meaning..there..skinny..

            • bad12

              ”’Living it up” what a frigging load, did it take you days/weeks to think that one up, have you seen the ‘roadshow bus’ Pfft, ”living it up” in an old 80’s diesel bus, suuu-uure…

      • The Al1en 5.2.2

        “Dirty deeds done dirt cheap.”

        You gotta be kidding me, right? 😆

    • Hami Shearlie 5.3

      Kelvin Davis – Self Interest is #1!

    • Ant 5.4

      Kelvin needs to pull his head in, Labour needs Shane Jones Mk.II like it needs a hole in the head.

  6. (heh..!..)

    “..How to Date a Vegan..

    ..Dating a vegan isn’t any more difficult than dating anyone else –

    • all it takes is an open mind – an open heart –
    • and maybe a box or two of vegan condoms..”



  7. Bearded Git 7

    A fair article from Armstrong in the Tory-Herald today. Hard to believe I know but here it is:


    • veutoviper 7.1

      It is a fair article, and worth reading.

      I find it hard to believe that Armstrong himself wrote it – in fact, the style of writing somehow doesn’t ‘compute’. imo. But maybe. perhaps, some of the hard hitting comments he has had to his articles over recent months have finally penetrated.

  8. ianmac 9

    Remember how Donghua Liu could speak no English according to Williamson?
    “I want to focus on transforming that awful paddock of long grass and weeds that you can see when coming into the city from the Newmarket Viaduct into a first-class residential development,” Liu told the Herald in June.
    It is a direct quote according to the Herald re Liu being in court for offences in his building program.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11303946 (by Jared Savage by the way. Remember the $90,000 bottle of wine?)

  9. karol 10

    So the NAct government is still running youth boot camps?!!! Who knew?! Why do we never hear about them and their (supposed) wonderful successes?

  10. ianmac 11

    Chris Barton: Joining the dots in the Dotcom conspiracy. Today 5 August.
    “The Kiwi Connection conspiracy has the hallmarks of abuse of process everywhere you look.
    We have to consider the likelihood the conspiracy is real because of the sterling investigative work of David Fisher, who has uncovered some hitherto unseen documents which indicate murkiness beyond the pale.”

    • Red Rosa 11.1

      OMG! And from the Herald, no less.

      A space worth watching, this one.

      Our esteemed PM may yet be totally skewered….;)

  11. Skinny 12

    Watching the new last night during the ad break did you notice Genesis Energy ad which appears to be a dirty rotten endoresment that I feel boarders on breeching the electoral rules.

    The ad promotes a $300 discount for signing up to both power & gas with the slogan mirroring something similar to ‘working for you’ It come across as a ringing endorsement for the National sale of this power asset. If you saw it you will know what i mean, if you haven’t have a look. Looks like a ‘snake oil’ PR stunt.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      Haven’t seen it but if it’s coming across that way to you then I suggest you complain to the Electoral Commission about it. What you describe sounds eerily similar to what the Exclusive Brethren did.

  12. fisiani 13

    Vandalising other peoples property is a crime.
    Why do the Greens supporters believe they have a right to vandalise National hoardings up and down the country?
    They are just criminals.
    Freedom of speech does not allow you to alter National hoardings in any way.

    • tricledrown 13.1

      have you any proof of who is vandalising the hoardings maybe you could get the GSCB and theSIS or the Police to investigate.
      otherwise you are defaming!
      While we know who is vandalising our environment egalitarian society freedoms our democracy and formerly independent media!
      you don’t complain about that or who is doing it!
      Roman times when the peasants aren’t happy read the graffitti.
      poor we fisitantrum.

    • Skinny 13.2

      Oh come on fisiani it happens to all party hoardings. I noticed God Botherer Col Craig got one of his hoardings absolutely smashed to bits over night Saturday. Both National and Conservatives have the dough & Brethren’s to go out and replace, usually in the early morning or dusk time.

      Just might have to go out and get in their face with a camera and reignite the sketchy underground connection between National-Conservative moonie sect.

      • fisiani 13.2.1

        It does NOT happen to all party hoardings and you well know that. There is a concerted regular vandalism campaign against National billboards nationwide. This is criminal damage, not a bit of fun.

        • thatguynz

          Oh bugger off fizzyanus.. You pick the weirdest things to get your nose out of joint about and quite frankly, you have not a skerrick of evidence to support your assertion.

        • McFlock

          but national are so popular that it would be impossible to vandalise the image of our lord john key without immediately being set upon by an angry mob who would restrain the miscreant until the police arrived. Neighbourhood watch schemes have been set up across the country to protect that glorious visage from being sullied by the three remaining far-left (i.e. thought twice before voting national) zealots in NZ… /sarc

        • Draco T Bastard

          That would be a conspiracy theory fisiani.

          The truth is that the majority of people are really pissed off by being screwed over by National.

        • Francis

          Labour’s signs tend to be ripped down rather than vandalised (that’s the case in my electorate, at least). It’s less noticeable, since the signs simply disappear, but the hit rate is similar. The effect is similar though, and Labour doesn’t have the funding from multimillionaire backers for large numbers of replacement signs.

  13. bad12 14

    A tale of two New Zealands, i limped past Te Papa, the national museum, last night on my way to Wellington leg of the InternetMana roadshow,

    Hekia’s gas guzzling 4×4 was on show out front as along with the brass bands and uniforms from the era the National Party celebrated the 1914-1918 war, its causes deeply rooted in inequality, of peoples, of nations, of fear from the masters that the wave of Socialism sweeping Europe would remove these Lords, Ladies, and Barons from their wealth, from their centuries of privilege,

    The reggae beat next door at Macs events center is a welcome contrast as a warm up to the main event as out of Wellingtons Winter darkness came 400–500 of us with one thing on our minds, the removal of those cavorting in their customary regalia in a celebration of the death/mutilation of 5% of the New Zealand population at the time, from the levers of power who with deliberation fuel the very inequalities that lead directly to the atrocity that is such wars,

    InternetMana what can i say, i am not there for the political speeches, and, there were some rousing words from the cast of characters all of whom have obviously been pushing themselves as the ‘roadshow’ snaked its way down the country to Wellington, some look and sound like they could do with a rest,(i hope they pace themselves theirs still 8 weeks of this organized mayhem),

    In the background, its where i like to be, there’s talk of New Branches, that’s what i like to hear,hurried swapping of email addy’s and plans for later meetings are made both befor and after the main event, my ears are not used to such a muted roar of conversation, my psyche equally unused to the human energy, the wairua,mauri, flowing around the packed events center,

    The meeting flyer says it all, ”A Message from the Future”, in the background, Annette Sykes confronts me as i try to sneak, into the background, i get to plant a big kiss on the cheek of the next MP for Waiariki, there’s way to much action happening here to say anything any other way,

    It’s another day and my waking thought is that the only other politician i planted such a kiss upon was Helen Clark not long befor she became the Prime Minister,

    There’s work to be done, lots of it, there’s not enough time, but the real fun will be in the doing, InternetMana has packed every venue so far, 4–5–600 people at them all, there’s a sniff of 5% in the air and i am already looking ahead to 2017, the fun has just begun,

    this has been, of course, ”A Message from the Future” InternetMana, be there….

    • karol 14.1

      It’ll be good to see Annette Sykes in the House.

      • bad12 14.1.1

        Indeed Karol, from the applause given i would say the loudest was for both Annette and Lailla, Hone, obviously with deliberation was way laid back letting the 2 Internet candidates and the 2 from Mana do most of the talking,

        The Wellington turnout was pretty much a cross section of New Zealand, so where Winston Peters gets His ‘race based party’ bullshit from is beyond me,

        Georgina Beyer, the candidate for Te Tai Tonga made a good speech, spoiled somewhat i would suggest by Her ‘version’ of events surrounding the foreshore and seabed Legislation when She was a Labour MP,

        DotCom’s references to what happened after the Mansion raids where the plods asset stripped Him of everything sounded a bit jaded obviously because we all already knew this aspect of the raid, perhaps He needs to refresh the delivery a bit,

        i can relate to what happened there, in the ‘hood’ the stripping of everything, bank cards, cars,(in one case the car taken had a stuffed gearbox and hadn’t moved for a year), happens weekly as the plods conduct their version of the ‘war on drugs’ and like DotCom found, when this does occur someone will step in to gift the basics, its the way we roll….

  14. Clemgeopin 15

    I posted this in the Rankin topic earlier, but may be better here for any discussions.

    EPSOM: ACT’s SEYMOUR CAN SNEAK THROUGH…..unless…..MOST OF LABOUR and GREEN votes go to Goldsmith. Here is why:

    2011 Election


    This time around, some previous votes cast for Goldsmith and Seymour, (I am assuming 4%+4%), may shift to Rankin and the result may look like this: (Of course there may be larger shift from ACT to CONs in this electorate given that ACT is practically dead and the CONS may yet be born again somewhat here which may actually work in Goldsmith’s favour)


    RESULT=ACT’s Seymour wins!

    The only way for the progressives to be more sure of defeating ACT and NATIONAL would be for MOST, if not all, of Labour and Greens voters to give their candidate vote to GOLDSMITH.

    Assuming there is a 50% improvement in the Labour and Green strategic voting tactics, (5% and 3% rather than the previous election’s 10% and 6% ) the result could look like this:


    RESULT=NATIONAL’S Mr PAUL GOLDSMITH MP RELUCTANTLY WINS!…Now, who wouldn’t want such a lovely result!

    • mickysavage 15.1

      Yep Clemengeopin although Seymour is no Banks. I suspect many National voters will not hold their noses as they vote …

      • Clemgeopin 15.1.1

        did you mean to say, ‘will not’ or ‘will’ hold their noses as they vote…?

  15. lprent 16

    For those who commented about it yesterday on handles disappearing at the client side.

    There does appear to be a problem with the time for the cookies used for putting handles, emails, and websites in for the non-loggedin comments.

    It is set for a day and resets every time that a comment is made. It is meant to be at least a week. But it doesn’t sound like the problem people reported.

    Could I have some details about browsers and if you have anything constraining javascript. It fills in those fields from javascript because that has been the most reusable option.

    • Te Reo Putake 16.1

      It happens to me on Firefox, LP. No java issues that I know of. I’m going to try on Chrome and see if it does the same.

    • bad12 16.2

      Not sure what exactly you need in the way of info LPrent, i am using Firefox, and the prob with the info disappearing out of the name required etc box has been apparent since the major outage the other week,

      My opinion, its not such a biggy, it simply means that everyone has to LOOK to ensure the name is there befor ‘submit comment’ is hit,

      Having said that i am still NOT looking at every comment to make sure the required details are there, it amazes me just how long it has taken to learn to do this,

      i can actually go right off the Standard by loading another page, then re-access the Standard using my ‘most visited’ icon and the username/email are still there, at other times just travelling around pages within the Standard removes it,

      Kind of a lottery, there’s a logical explanation for it doing this, but, the primitive lurking in the recesses of my mind has now given to the Standard ‘mauri’, a life force, as it ‘chooses’ to have the username/email either there or not at its own whim…

      • ropata 16.2.1

        @bad12, could be firefox addons causing the problem. Adblock, noscript, ghostery will screw around with javascript and cookies. Try whitelisting this site

        • Tiger Mountain

          Could be addons I guess, have used Safari, Mavericks OSX, ‘disconnect’ and ‘ad blocker’ for months but only have had to fill in name and email the last two weeks.

        • bad12

          Lolz ropata thanks for the tip, now for the really dumb question, what is ‘white-listing this site’,

          i doubt that will do much as my internet connection is so tenuous any changes i make cannot be saved, that’s a long story better left for some other less busy time,

          i don’t actually mind how the username/email thing has shape up, its gone from giving me a major case of the shits at myself to now being a major source of self depreciation, seriously how hard can it be to re-wire the brain to perform a simple task like looking to see if the information is there or not befor pressing ”submit comment”??

          Pretty frigging hard if you have a nut like mine i must say, i am about half way there but still havn’t quite formed the habit or broken the one where the small function was performed for me,

          Note: just for info, most of the time after the username/email has been inserted when it does the ‘disappear’ it only takes one letter of both the username/email to refill the blank spaces, while you remain online for that session it seems to be there in that format? until an actual logging off the net occurs…

      • lprent 16.2.2

        It does sound like a cookie timeout.

        I wonder if it is not refreshing the cookie timestamp.

        • bad12

          When the username/email disappear they don’t really, now i am trying to confuse you as much as i manage to confuse me,

          Its still there in a drop down, as in when i slap the B for bad in the username box the drop down appears with the bad12 in it, same for the email,

          Don’t ask me about cookies i am an accidental ungenius too fearful to go anywhere near such things in my laptop in case i completely total my tenuous connection to the net altogether…

          • lprent

            Ok, the ‘B’ is from a different ‘level’. That is the browser itself remembering. Problem is that is specific to each browser (although it is getting a lot more standardised these days).

            When I implemented the system that is meant to be in use, it attempted to stop as much of that as was possible because in 2007 it was freaking unreliable.

    • Rosie 16.3

      Hi Lynn. Using Chrome. Java needs updating I’ve been told……………

      • lprent 16.3.1

        Java shouldn’t matter. We don’t do anything with it.

        Javascript is a completely different beast.

        Note – must look at this again. But after I finish crunching the roll.

    • Daveosaurus 16.4

      Running Firefox 31.0 with Adblock Plus, on Windows 7 Professional Service Pack 1.

      I don’t think I’ve set Adblock to block anything at the Standard, but I do have pop-ups blocked (which intermittently works).

      I’ve noticed other shenanigans as well recently – e.g. when downloading a .pdf document it no longer opens automatically – it just goes straight into downloads.

    • lprent 16.5

      Ok. Across all major browsers. I’ll assume it is a site problem.

      First time I will have to deal with it is at the weekend.

    • miravox 17.1

      A great job there by archiedarival. A cherry on top would be a link and credit to Blip’s List

      Seriously, a good show in putting up these electronic billboards.

    • Tiger Mountain 18.1

      hilarious; now lets hope Rape Crisis refuses Whaleboil’s ‘donation’.

  16. should anyone encounter colin (moon-landing-denier) craig on their travels..

    ..they should catch his gaze..then automatically point to the sky..

    ..and say:..’look out..!..chem-trails..!’..

    ..and see if he does the duck ‘n cover..

  17. amirite 20

    Cunliffe has just ruled out working with Internet Mana.

    That’s it then. Three more years of National, guys, three more years.

    And bye -bye David after this election.

    • should labour limp over the line..and get what they seem to want..winston peters..

      ..and then should they do pretty much nothing very much at all..

      ..for three yrs..(being in power being ‘all’..)

      ..and with int/mana holding them to account all the way..

      ..labour will be decimated in ’17..

      • The Al1en 20.1.1

        The first bit is your recurring nightmare. All that mip trollerising for nothing.

        The second your wet dream pu, and probably far removed from reality of a Lab/Green/Winston government, but do tell me, in ’17, does mana get 51% of the party vote? 😆

      • Bearded Git 20.1.2

        No phillip wrong.

        Cunliffe knows that IMP have nowhere to go other than to support him on confidence and supply. So he can rule them out of government and avoid the coat-tailing/hypocrisy tag being thrown at him by National while still becoming PM with IMP’s support.

        It’s a clever stance to take.

        • bad12

          Bearded Git, only if you truly believe that a), Winston Peters and NZFirst will be back in the next Parliament, and b), that Winston will not take the side of National in a coalition,

          Neither of the above propositions are a certainty, with Colon’s conservatives going after NZFirst’s votes deliberately targeting Grey-Power meetings and the ‘tactical voters’ having walked away from that Party there’s a 50/50 of Winston not being able to secure His Party the needed 5%,

          It’s obviously a 50/50 also as to who can buy NZFirst support in forming a coalition, His first demand will be to be made Prime Minister, when that ambit fails the demand will be Minister of Finance as well as Deputy PM,

          Toss a coin, will Slippery the Prime Minister push His Finance Minister under the bus, could He do so without Ripping the National Caucus apart,

          Toss the coin again, ask the same question of David Cunliffe,

          Who in the left ‘really’ wants another Government of ‘business as usual’ because that’s what i see a coalition that involves NZFirst becoming again…

          • Bearded Git

            bad-you missed my earlier prediction which I still hold to: 31+11+7=Cunliffe.

            NZF are not needed in this scenario.

            • bad12

              Nope Bearded git, i didn’t miss your earlier prediction my point being that i have strong doubts that NZFirst will attain 5% of the vote on September 20,

              i don’t agree with the prediction, but, its not a point i will spend all day haggling about, as within those numbers there can be a three % point movement among the 3 parties that still spells out a Government of the left,

              My pick is Labour 33%, Greens 12%, Internet Mana 5%,

              i am also picking NZFirst 4.5% and Colons conservatives 3.2%,

              IF, such numbers on the night of September 20 are what occurs i hope that David Parker has factored into His first budget a comprehensive ‘food in schools program’ as the first part of a confidence and supply agreement from InternetMana…

    • Colonial Viper 20.2

      Well, that’s fucked it.

    • Tangled_up 20.3

      I guess now that IMP doesn’t have a chance of being in Govt. the Greens will gain some votes and anti-IMP swing voters have the option of Labour again and Winston has the option of going with Lab/Greens.

    • Pasupial 20.4


      Link Please? Nothing on; Stuff, Scoop, or even NZH.

      Has Cunliffe ruled out accepting IMP votes on confidence & supply? Or is it simply that he sees no place for them in a Labour-led coalition? Does this apply to both individual parties, or just the combined IMP alliance?

      [edit] It seems it was on TVNZ (no clip obvious yet):

      [Cunliffe] saying on Breakfast this morning that he had ruled them out completely. “I’ve said yesterday, I’ve said before Mana will not be part of a government I lead, fullstop.”


      An article about DPF & Slater donating to Davis’ campaign wasn’t the most obvious place to look.

      • blue leopard 20.4.1

        I think it is this:


        ‘Won’t be part of the government’

        It sounds like what he has been saying previously re no ministerial post for Mana – no coalition with Mana…doesn’t sound like a ruling out on confidence and supply.

        [edit: Ah! I see you found reference to it]

        • Colonial Viper

          Yep. No Cabinet positions.

          • blue leopard

            I accept the reasoning that Labour may need to distance themselves from Mana due to certain perceptions about criminal behaviour and KDC* but this is starting to grate – I don’t really like Cunliffe sounding so bloody sure that he won’t give Hone or Laila a cabinet position – it would seen that Labour could do with a few members in caucus that are experienced, level-headed and can deal with the media excellently too.

            *The biggest criminals in the world are in the financial industry – they have been consistently ripping off millions of people and destroying lives and last time I checked John Phillip Key was part of that industry (has it ever been confirmed whether he ever left it – last photo I saw of JPK, he was in a black shirt promoting AIG?). If it came to criminal dodgy behaviour who really would win that race: KDC or JPK? Double standards abound in this fucked up country of ours.

            • Colonial Viper

              And KDC has been very upfront with his German convictions has a teenager. The German Government eventually invested money in his first IT business after the court concluded that he was an extraordinary young technology talent – albeit somewhat misguided.

              The latest stoush with Hollywood – well – that’ still very much in the works, and as we have seen, has been full of political interference from the get-go of his immigration approval to NZ.

              As to your main point: ruling out experienced Parliamentarians from your Cabinet is definitely a move which limits very many future options.

              • Clemgeopin

                I agree, but we don’t really know the political reasoning behind this strategy.

                My own guess, worth 2c is this:

                Obviously Labour does not want to disadvantage itself before the election by losing some of its own potential support from their traditional Labour voters or from the soft non-commited voters of National, NZF, Maori and other progressive parties, especially as there is a substantial constituency of voters who are anti KDC, anti Hone or ambiguous about them.

                I think their legitimate fear is that if they unconditionally endorse any other progressive party, especially IMP, before the election, then their own votes may siphon out to National or other minor parties.

                Also, ruling IMP out of government will cripple/handicap National’s potential attack weapon against Labour, based on present and past histories of
                KDC and Harawira.

                Labour’s stand may also calm fears of some of the Labour caucus members in terms of cabinet positions etc and it would also be easier to manage if NZF are the king makers after the election.

                So, for Labour, politically and electorally it makes more sense not to be too pally with IMP.

                As I said, that is just my 2c worth opinion, which may of course be far out.

      • blue leopard 20.4.2

        @ Parsupial

        I just read that article you linked to and some of the comments Kelvin has made on his facebook page.

        Kelvin sounds as dodgy as hell. I would prefer if people want to join forces with the likes of Farrar and Slater that they do it as an independent candidate and not under Labour’s umbrella.

        I wonder if Kelvin was the ‘insider’ criticising Cunliffe’s holiday? (or did he openly refute that?).

        …And doesn’t that Kelvin dude stop and think for even a moment about why that Nat sycophant Farrar would be supporting him??


        Farrar says Hipkins has ‘liked’ Kelvin’s comments

        WTF LABOUR PARTY????????????????????

    • blue leopard 20.5

      Where do you get that info from Amrite?

    • Puckish Rogue 20.6

      Being that its Cunliffe he’ll probably change his position on it tomorrow

    • Colonial Viper 20.7

      Cunliffe has previously said that IMP would not get Ministerial positions. Has he ruled them out of being in coalition altogether? How about a Confidence and Supply agreement?

      • Tiger Mountain 20.7.1

        Most of the socialist left in Mana as opposed to Internet Mana strategic alliance don’t feel Mana should be officially part of a government anyway. Cunliffe has to placate his party people and potential voters but if it shakes out that Internet Mana MPs are needed for a change of government an arrangement will surely be reached particularly if it does not involve NZ First.

        Labour (minus the rogernomes) wants a change of government as does Internet Mana and Mana and Internet Party and of course quiet achiever the Greens. If the left is fortunate enough to be be in the position of forming a government it will be done even if Internet Mana was just formally represented by say Internet Party MPs.

      • Pasupial 20.7.2


        He hasn’t ruled out the Internet Party, the words were very specific; “Mana will not be part of a government I lead”. But the immediate precursor statement was that “coalition [with NZF] has always been on the cards” (2:22 in Blue Leopard link above).

        Personally I think that the IP should stay in alliance with MANA even if it costs them ministerial seats (which won’t be highly placed in any case) in this next parliamentary term. The point is to get rid of the current corrupt tory regime. And even on the crossbenches; their votes will still count just as much. Also, they won’t be bound by cabinet collectivity restrictions, can bargain for support on individual bills, introduce private member’s bills to the lottery, and generally position themselves for 2017 when they will have a clear track record and comprehensive policies.

        • Colonial Viper

          I think your analysis is spot on. IMP need some freedom to continue to establish and distinguish themselves as a separate party outside of Labour’s shadow.

          • Puckish Rogue

            The IMP will fold as quickly as every other two-bit political party has after this election, no KDC no money

            • bad12

              Puckish, dumb by accident or design???, i have money Puckish, not the supposed millions that Kim DotCom is said to have at His disposal,


              Enough to supply the paper and the printing to put an A4 sized pamphlet in every letterbox in the electorate i reside in, and, guess what, that’s exactly what i plan on doing,

              i plan on doing this Puckish you ‘accident’ not because DotCom has or doesn’t have money, not because DotCom is a crook or is not a crook, but, because i believe very strongly in two planks of the Mana policy that’s also now part of the InternetMana Alliance, the food in schools program, and, a proper robust State House rebuilding program,i also agree with a hell of a lot more of the policy platform,

              What exactly do you believe in Puckish, Dribbling Shit seems to be about the extent of your commenting ability, and, that appears to me to be the extent of the total election policies of the right leading into election 2014, A Dribble of Shit, full stop…

              • Tiger Mountain

                Good on you Bad12, Key’s final flight to Hawaii is going to be booked vote by hard won vote. It is ‘hand to hand combat’ that will do it. Like Rosie’s mates campaigning for Hairdo to move on and my partner running workshops on “get out and vote” for unionists to spread the word about enrolment and early voting. There may be locals who will donate to your costs?

                This is as Mickysav I believe called it the ‘phoney war’ period, once the Nats have effectively run out of time on August 26 to pull candidates, names will appear on the ballot papers regardless. Then the rubber meets the road.

                • bad12

                  Lolz Tiger, those ‘locals’ they already have, i will say no more, i have a budget, it aint huge,

                  Take out the cost of labour, specially at a commercial printing organization,(sorry printers union),and, my budget as far as i can calculate will cover at least 1 electorate…

  18. freedom 21

    Grass roots as it gets

    Sam is a young guy from rural NZ who thinks voting matters and hosts a web show about Dctor Who. He wanted some fuller answers about the internet and education in New Zealand, so he decided to do an interview.

    Published on 4 Aug 2014

    The latest 0800 Tardis News Hosted by Sam Somers interviewing Laila Harre and Callum Valentine from the Internet Party, talking about Internet Party Policies in a less formal situation,

    • Clemgeopin 21.1

      Thanks freedom for that link.

      I actually thoroughly enjoyed it after the initial few moments of serious doubt.
      What a novel way of bringing politics, politicians, parties and policies from a simple private living room to the world at large!

      The questions asked and the answers were very good with lots of fun in a relaxed friendly
      setting. Both Laila Harre and Callum Valentine were excellent. One can easily sense that Harre is such a lovely, pleasant, caring and very intelligent person. Callum Valentine came across as a smart, nice cool dude too!

      I felt that the host Somers needs some more practice and training to make his presentation clearer and better.

      This is the type of format that modern political parties and campaigners of good causes should use to spread their message. No ads, no rubbish, no spin, no scandals, no controversies! Just good questions and answers about policies. Let the viewer take in the message and decide one way or the other.

      Not perfect, but early days!

      I liked it!

  19. greywarbler 22

    Good news from the Greens for tertiary students and apprentices travelling. They are introducing a Green card for travel – free off-peak public transport. That will be a transport of delight!

    • that is a clever policy from the greens..

      ..and i have no problems with int/mana not being in cabinet/bound by cabinet muzzling-rules..

      ..for one thing..labour support a tpp..

      ..int/mana want to rip it up…

      ..and a weak/do nothing lab/nz first coalition..will just weaken labour further..

      ..and a potent int/mana on the cross-benches..free to argue etc..

      ..is fine with me..

      ..i wd just like there to be a lot of them..

      ..and then..in 2017…

    • bad12 22.2

      The unemployed could use one of them, a green card, it costs to ‘look’ for employment and it costs to trot off to the local WINZ office to fulfill the same obligations that were ‘filled’ in eaxactly the same way the week befor and the week befor that,

      A missed opportunity???, or a deliberate move away from what used to be the bread and butter representation of the Green Party???…

  20. Morrissey 23

    Is Fox News More Dangerous Than Isis?

    ACT leader Jamie “Socrates” Whyte obviously gets all his ideas from Fox News, as do the likes of Leighton Smith and Larry “Lackwit” Williams. So do a few of the right wing provocateurs that infest this site. They all need to watch the following…..

  21. Paul 24

    Campbell Live poll.
    16 000 votes.
    Should we sell our farms to overseas owners ?
    6% in favour.

    The Nats should be afraid.
    50 cents to vote so only this poll doesn’t even include the less affluent in society.

  22. Clemgeopin 25

    I just listened to this RNZ brilliant interview of Kim Dot Com by Brent Edwards.
    A great interview. KDC comes across as excellent and very sincere.
    Have a listen here:

  23. Draco T Bastard 26

    80% of scientists surveyed didn’t like the government’s 133 million dollar project to find and fund the most urgent areas for research. Joyce says that this is not the views of most scientists.

  24. Morrissey 28

    “Do they land in Gaza? Ha!”
    The laughs just keep coming on The Panel

    Radio NZ National, Monday 4 August 2014

    Jim Mora, Virginia Larson, Tainui Stephens, Zara Potts

    Consider the following selection of gruesome twosomes. Barry Corbett and Ali Jones. Chris Wikaira and Linda Clark. Christine Spankin’ Rankin and Jock Anderson. Dita Di Boni and Sam Pease. Lindsey Dawson and Stephen Franks. And last but not least, the nastiest, smuggest, gruesomest twosome of all—Boag and Edwards. I could, but for the sake of readers’ sensibilities will not, go on.

    Long time sufferers of Jim Mora’s godawful, moribund radio light chat show The Panel will have recognized these dreadful duos immediately—they are regular guests, recycled every few weeks, carefully selected to pretty much agree with one another and to pass comment on various matters in a manner that will not piss off anyone that matters. So criticism of the prime minister—someone who matters—has been pretty much kiboshed. So has criticism of racist juries in the Deep South, at least when someone like Chris Trotter is on the program to learnedly admonish those foolish enough to speak out against the jury who acquitted the vigilante who killed Trayvon Martin.

    But criticism of, or more accurately, rancorous denunciation of and sneering at, people who do not matter—like political dissidents and fugitives of state vengeance, or the victims of knife attacks in South Auckland or mass murder in Gaza—is quite acceptable. All of these outcast groups have been ridiculed, joked about and pompously denounced on The Panel.

    Clearly the producers of The Panel think seriousness is boring, compassion is an irritation and knowledge is intolerable. So it’s out with the likes of Anna Chinn, Gordon Campbell and Bomber Bradbury, and in with the likes of Graham Bell, Jeremy Elwood and Rosemary McLeod.

    And, as noted above, clearly the producers of The Panel make a point of getting two really shallow, reactionary people on the show whenever possible. Today, however, they only got it half right. Someone slipped up and made the mistake of inviting Tainui Stephens, who is NOT a moral imbecile, onto the show. The pre-show segment started at 3:45 p.m. ….

    JIM MORA: Zara Potts with what the world’s talking about. Qantas changes its flight path at last?
    ZARA POTTS: Yes, Qantas has announced it’s not going to fly over Iraqi air space any more. However, the extra time is only ten minutes.
    MORA: Is the extra time only ten minutes?
    ZARA POTTS: Yes it is.

    A little later….

    MORA: And what’s this about a secret Qatari airline?
    ZARA POTTS: The airline’s full name is Qatar Amiri Flight. It’s an airline for both the royal family and high ranked government staff of Qatar. Its fleet is reportedly eleven to thirteen strong and consists of Airbus planes, except for a few 747s. It staffs about a hundred cabin crew and only hires Captains. First Officers need not apply.
    MORA: Do they land in Gaza? Ha!
    ZARA POTTS: Ha ha. No they don’t.
    MORA: There’s a lot of money in Qatar. ….

    After the 4 o’clock news, it was time for the introductions of today’s Panelists. Usually this is a dire, teeth-grindingly dull seven or eight minutes of inane breezy nothingness. Not today, however. Tainui Stephens talked about his eleven-year-old daughter, who has been deeply affected by the suffering of the people of Gaza during the latest ramping up of Israel’s violence. She and her friends accompanied him on the recent protest march in Wellington, and Tainui expressed how he was deeply moved by these young people, and everyone else at the march. Of course, Jim Mora could not leave alone a provocation as brazen as that statement of solidarity with the Palestinians. He felt it incumbent on himself to play Devil’s Advocate….

    MORA: Ahhhh. We hear from a lot of people who say that there is killing in Ukraine, on both sides probably, and killing in Syria, and killing in Egypt, ahhh, but we don’t hear much or anything about them. Ahhhh. But we hear about Gaza, don’t we….

    I’m sure Tainui Stephens replied to that, but if so, I missed it as my friend B_______ screamed for a considerable amount of time about the wretched state of radio commentary in this country.

    A little later, Mora was back at his tricks, fishing for bigoted right wing comments….

    MORA: Now what do we make of THIS? The Labour Party wants a Ministry of Disarmament.

    Virginia Larson scoffed at the idea, which she reckons is a luxury: “After all, we haven’t got two hundred and fifty million Indonesians on our doorstep.” After that rather mystifying remark, she embarked on a wandery rant against Vladimir Putin, calling him a “sabre-rattler” and an aggressor.

    MORA: [speaking very slowly, with exaggerated enunciation, to emphasize deep seriousness] I was reading about the bright young people in Gaza who are just as bright as the young people in Israel. But they haven’t been able to stop what’s going on there, have they? Can we EVER stop war?

    Tainui Stephens, who is clearly a serious and intelligent person, must have felt like walking out of the studio. But he somehow found it in himself to respond to this idiocy by fobbing him off with a Mora-style bromide…..

    TAINUI STEPHENS: I guess we have to appeal to the better angels of our nature.
    MORA: [sighs deeply, then speaks with reverent intensity] Here’s to the better angels of our nature.

  25. ianmac 29

    Nat MP McIndoe always stares fixedly/longingly at the back of English’s neck in the House which may have caused him to get things wrong.
    “National’s Hamilton West MP Tim Macindoe has been referred to police along with Free FM in Hamilton for allegedly airing an election advertisement outside the proper period……”
    How sad.

  26. vto 30

    I don’t mean to waste everyone’s time but is this not hoskings writ large in his brain?

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