web analytics

Open Mike 07/05/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 7th, 2017 - 130 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

130 comments on “Open Mike 07/05/2017”

  1. James 1

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/05/01/23499/dont-mind-the-list-labour-has-bigger-issues-to-handle

    Labours main problem is andrew little according to newsroom.

    Republished in stuff

    • According to the newsroom. Republished in stuff. Pounced-upon by the Little-obsessed James and shoved into into the faces of Labour supporters for the sly pleasure of a confidence-troll who revels in creating discomfort and division. All on a Sunday morning, early, when thoughtful, kindly people least expect such miserly-of-spirit behaviour.

      • James 1.1.1

        you have a go at the poster not the article- simply because you know it’s true.

        And I would never describe you as thoughtful or kindly. Enjoy your Sunday.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1

          James, your nit-picky, boringly repetitiousness snipes at Andrew Little are dull enough on a week day, but please spare us those on beautiful Sundays like this one. Get outside, James, let the sun wash away your bitterness. Breath some fresh air and think of someone other than yourself and Andy.

          • Rosemary McDonald 1.1.1.1.1

            For a long, long time the current deputy has been the preferred Labour leader of those on the Right….why is this?

            Just the other day Farrar’s Ferals were delighting in a Little hate session, magnifying his deficits and promoting his deputy as the de facto Boss.

            There’s something about Little that the Right really, really dislikes.

            Good thing, no?

            • Foreign waka 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Could it be that the right doesn’t like him because he was a Union leader?

            • Wainwright 1.1.1.1.1.2

              They’ve always “loved” whoever the deputy is, because they want to make people worriedf about leadership instability. If Little were deputy they’d love him too. It’s a transparent tactic.

              • greywarshark

                Wainwright
                I hadn’t caught onto that tactic, but I feel sure you are right.

              • Antoine

                I don’t know about ‘always’, but yes, when the right supports Jacintda it’s all about undermining Little.

                A.

            • James 1.1.1.1.1.3

              According to polls – its more than the right that do not like him.

            • Tamati Tautuhi 1.1.1.1.1.4

              They can see he has substance and some spine and they don’t like it, basically nasty little trolls at work ?

          • James 1.1.1.1.2

            “your nit-picky, boringly repetitiousness snipes at Andrew Little …”

            In fairness he gives so much material.

            • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Loving your contribution to the discussion today, James. Having a snippy critic of Andrew Little expose your churlisness so early in the piece gave all of us a chance to show our support for the Labour leader; an opportunity we mightn’t have taken, but for the opportunity you so thoughtfully presented.
              Keep up the sterling work. Never let your tightness of spirit ease, you’re one of our best assets here on TS.

              • James

                Indeed. You think he’s great – media seem to think he’s the problem.

                But at the end of the day news postings about how he is the problem will have more of an impact as opposed to a few people on a blog that are generally all voting left anyway.

            • The decrypter 1.1.1.1.2.2

              Good drying weather up here in the North.

            • Rosemary McDonald 1.1.1.1.2.3

              In fairness his surname could be his biggest handicap…words being soooo important, as we were all educated about (ad bloody nauseum) here on TS yesterday….

              Too late for Deed Poll…?

      • tuppence shrewsbury 1.1.2

        Playing the man not the ball. Straight out of the labour play book since before the end of the Clark government. Notice a trend guyton?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1

          Most of Robert’s remarks are aimed at James’ behaviour, hence, not “playing the man”.

          As for playbooks, you sound like a “screaming conspiracy theorist” to me.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.2.2

          not give (a) tuppence
          To not care in the slightest (about something or someone). ” I know that James has a crush on me, but to be honest I couldn’t give tuppence for him.”

          http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/wouldn%27t+give+tuppence

          • James 1.1.2.2.1

            If you do a bit of a search I think you will find you go around replying (and generally trying to insult on a lot of post I make) – not the other way around- so I think that it’s you that has the crush on me.

            I’m not that way inclined- but if I was I would like to think I could do better than you. 🙂

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.3

          Strange, I could have sworn that was James engaged in and that we see it from the RWNJs all the bloody time.

      • greywarshark 1.1.3

        Hi Robert
        You express the situation well. And I hope that you all are well down there. Getting colder eh.

    • saveNZ 1.2

      Hearing that for a while now from MSM against Labour. Yep, problems with Cunliffe, problems with Shearer, problems with Goff. Helen Clark has to go.. Of course Little is terrible too, from the MSM and not so M, SM sites.

      Granny’s sister sites might get more readership if they actually print real news and if they want to talk politics about the 9 year legacy of the Natz as well as the failed neoliberal ideology of English. Since they are just an echo chamber from the centre right discourses they have no credibility.

      • Jenny Kirk 1.2.1

        Try reading this instead – a more accurate view of Andrew Little and his leadership .

        FRIDAY, 5 MAY 2017
        Telling The Story Of Labour’s List Differently.

        All Good: As a result of Little’s recruitment of Jackson, Labour’s ability to attract Maori support has been enhanced. And, thanks to Labour’s List Moderating Committee, New Zealand will soon be appreciating the contributions of Priyanca Radhakrishnan, Jan Tinetti, Willow-Jean Prime and Kiri Allan.

        http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/

        • Wainwright 1.2.1.1

          Chris is getting his lines from McCarten. Not exactly “accurate” from the perspecrtive of anyone who realy supports Labour values. Labour already got plenty of Maori support thanks to (demoted) MPs like Mahuta. People should stop crying triumph for Jackson until he proves himself.

          • greywarshark 1.2.1.1.1

            Wainwright
            You make assertions, and I don’t think this one is right. Of course Trotter should listen to McCarten as he listens across the spectrum.

            Also he will sometimes do a scenario piece of what might happen which doesn’t follow from an embedded viewpoint. So he can surprise, seem certainly left, centre, or right in particular posts.

            I hope your ideas are not too embedded to enable you to correctly judge and make your pronouncements. Anyone who is absolutely certain they are correct all the time is someone to be wary of. I hope you aren’t here just to affirm your preconceptions.

            • Wainwright 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Tha’ts a very nice little lecture, grey. Doesn’t cahnge the fact Chris has been talking complete bollocks for years, changes his spots on a weekly basis to try to look relevant, and gets all his good gossip from the Galbraith’s happy hour crew. If you want to give anyone a growling for ’embedded ideas’ why not Jenny, whose idea of ‘accuracy’ is based on ‘things that Jenny agrees with because she thinks th eLabour Party never does any wrong’?

              • greywarshark

                Thank goodness that chris Trotter does try on different coats, think around his subjects, or we would get the same old thinking and assertions all the time from people whose minds have rusted over.

          • red-blooded 1.2.1.1.2

            Chris Trotter has regularly been critical of Labour in recent years, and he doesn’t get “fed” lines. He’s not a favourite commenter of mine, but in this case I think he’s got a point. Labour’s list is actually pretty damn impressive and Little has shown some canny judgement in terms of Jackson. I admit that I was somewhat taken aback when his candidacy was announced, but then I’m not one of the people who’s being targeted by this move and I do acknowledge that Jackson would have added considerably to the Māori Party’s fire-power.

            • Wainwright 1.2.1.1.2.1

              Canny judgment? You mean pissing off a helluva lot of people when he announced Jackson would be at the top of the list, then pissing of Jackson by not putting him at the top of the list? Those headlines have been great for Labour. And once again the hard work and loyalty of actual Maori MPs gets shafted for one of McCarten’s old Alliance buddies. You guys aren’t selling this very well.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.2

          Actuall link

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 1.3

      James doesn’t like the fact that Andrew Little speaks with integrity and honesty and it worries him that people might just start analysing WHAT is being said instead of THE WAY it is said. The performing snake oil salesman has vanished without trace and people are starting to wake up that he was simply an illusionist. People also see how Trump got voted in the US and that entertaining attention-seeking is not the defining quality for a good leader.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.3.1

        People also see how Trump got voted in the US and that entertaining attention-seeking is not the defining quality for a good leader.

        Seems to work for the RWNJs who really don’t seem to read up on what policies will actually do and just go on the shallow, feel good sound bites of such leaders.

    • Ad 1.4

      LIttle is boring. Sure.

      But I try the Prime Minister test:
      Little will be a more just and inclusive Prime Minister than Bill English.
      Little will also be braver, less technocratic Prime Minister, because the expectations and momentum are so high upon him.

      Even after his first term, I’m also confident of this: Andrew Little will not lie.
      Put “will not lie” in a sentence with Bill English and you will choke on your Weetbix.

      And as Prime Minister, LIttle will have earned it not inherited it.

      I could not say that of Bill English. Which is why I already respect Little more.

      • Reality 1.4.1

        Andrew Little takes his role seriously, unlike John Key, who wanted to be a creepy clown half the time. So Andrew Little is not going to be all jokey about important issues facing the country. He is true to himself.

        Bill English – not exactly oozing charm and personality, if that is what you are looking for James. Have you been taking notes on how the operatives from Dirty Politics went about their “work”? Horrible people – who would want them as a friend, neighbour, relative?

      • Antoine 1.4.2

        The problem I have with Little is that he seems to have poor judgement. From time to time he opens his mouth and weird stuff comes out, without apparently having passed through his brain en route. I regard this as a problematic quality in a PM.

        I’m sure he’s a good dude and is sincere and hard working.

        A.

        • Incognito 1.4.2.1

          It appears to be good enough for POTUS and let’s not even go to the obfuscating language and semantic back flips by John Key, for example. But obviously it is o.k. to have double standards for some but not for others …

          Sure, Andrew Little and the Labour Party good do better in the PR department, etc., but what really counts is the policies and what they actually achieve once in Government.

  2. James 2

    A while back there was a post about a woman who was being released from jail on compassionate grounds due to cancer.

    If I think back – I may have been in the “do the crime – do the time” camp.

    Well she’s in the press again with her final interview.

    Its sobering reading – having read it – I have no doubt that my original view of the situation was wrong and that the right decision was made for this lady. You couldn’t wish this on anybody.

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/92290197/allowed-home-from-prison-to-spend-her-last-days-with-her-family-vicki-letele-gives-her-final-interview

    • Anne 2.1

      That’s the trouble with you righties. You can’t recognise a true story when you see it. Everything is coloured by your tunnel-visioned view of anyone who isn’t the same as yourselves, or who have made some mistakes in their past life. They are to be punished for the rest of their lives.

      I will give you full credit though for having the nous to fess up you were wrong.

      • James 2.1.1

        If you think those views are exclusively for righties – you would be wrong. There are plenty of lefties that think that way as well.

        But hey – everyone needs to step back and revisit their positions from time to time.

        • Anne 2.1.1.1

          Sorry James. I worded that very badly. You are correct. There are things where people from both sides can be in full agreement. In fact you left a comment yesterday (or the day before) that I thought was reasonable and fair.

          My response was more an observation of right- wingers in general which many commentators here have noted before. It’ll try to be less hasty and more careful in future.

          • AB 2.1.1.1.1

            Anne – I wouldn’t be too apologetic.
            It is of course excellent that James has changed his mind in this case and he should be congratulated for it wholeheartedly.
            However his propensity to make the mistake in the first place is still a valid and very interesting area of discussion.

      • Foreign waka 2.1.2

        Anne -And comments like these just brass me off, ungracious, spiteful and condescending. I am a green voter and leaning more to the left than the right but by god, if that is what the left represents, good ridden’s.

        • Red 2.1.2.1

          Identity politics vs we are simply all individuals, Condescending attitude and some sort of morale superiority is common amoung hard lefties and it is why they alienate the masses They absolutely loose it when such is highlighted or the artifice of their beliefs are challenged and contradictions are high lighted

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1.1

            I mostly see such vile behaviour from the RWNJs. They really, really don’t like it when their beliefs are not only challenged but proved wrong. Still, they won’t change their beliefs.

            • James 2.1.2.1.1.1

              Really ? Because you are replying to a thread that is exactly the opposite to what you just said.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Yes, really.

                And this thread is mostly Anne being corrected by others on the left and Anne apologising for her initial comment.

                On the other hand, over the last ten years on this board, I’ve seen the RWNJs get really brassed off and swing to ad hominem attacks when their beliefs are challenged but I’ve very rarely seen that from those on the Left.

                • Red

                  your Selective bias is very strong DB if you believe that

                • James

                  Me- “I have no doubt that my original view of the situation was wrong”

                  You. “They really, really don’t like it when their beliefs are not only challenged but proved wrong. Still, they won’t change their beliefs”

                  I think that perfectly sums you up – stating something as a fact- even in reply to a comment that proves you wrong.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    I wasn’t responding to what you said but what Red said and a single point of data does not make a statistic.

                • Incognito

                  @ Draco T Bastard 12:29 pm:

                  I don’t want to be pedantic but “Anne being corrected by others on the left” is very different from what actually happened, which is that Anne ‘corrected’ herself. The first is the moralistic and patronising arrogance that often rubs many people the wrong way. The second is a person realising the consequence of her actions not aligning well with who she is and taking responsibility for that – I applaud her.

          • xanthe 2.1.2.1.2

            sadly i agree with Red here. and don’t have a lot of hope that those responsible will own this.

            • Red 2.1.2.1.2.1

              Some examples

              Science yes accept but not when contrary to left ideology, ie degree of impact and response to climate change, abortion, LGBT debate, identity politics

              economics, Venezuela, North Korea, history of Soviet Union, abject failure of closed economies and socialism in the 20th century doesn’t count as does not fit the left narrative, oh but it works in Scandinavia, under very unique circumstances however let’s ignore the balance of overwhelming evidence

              selected morality, the left dancers on the graves of pike river for political expediency, Dirty politics is only dirty if the other guys do it

              Many more but you get my gist

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Sure I do: it’s a pack of lies. Unless of course you can find some examples of anyone defending Venezuelan economic policies, or North Korean anything, or rejoicing at Pike River deaths. Put up or shut up.

                The fact is the NZ left has always run this economy better than the right. You can’t handle that fact so you drivel on about the USSR.

                As for condescending attitudes and superiority, calling dead children “feral” is a pretty good example, and so is almost everything that oozes out of Gerry Brownlee.

                • Red

                  An emotiional response OAB, exactly my point when lefts contradictions are highlighted and beliefs are challenged

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Can’t find any examples eh. You made assertions of fact that you cannot support, and when challenged to do so, you failed.

                    Do you disagree that calling people “feral” is an example of a condescending superior attitude? Can’t you defend your spiritual leader?

                    • Red

                      Some things are simply self evident OAB, ie socialism has been adject failure from a logic, evidence and competing alternate system basis, You can choose to accept this or not, your a prisoner of your own anger so I don’t believe anything will change your mind, likewise not really wanting to get into a personal abuse session with you where such debates normally go Saying that i respect your right for you to give your views but not necessarily agree with or how you express them which I feel is counter to you and the left cause in winning hearts and minds

                    • weka

                      So you think that NZ was an abject failure before 1984?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Yawn Red.

                      I’m a social democrat. As such, I have no need to defend myself against your mis-aimed shots: they are off target.

                      You can’t meet the challenge I gave you, and cannot admit that. Thanks for making my point.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Some things are simply self evident OAB, ie socialism has been adject failure from a logic, evidence and competing alternate system basis,

                      And yet the scientific evidence shows the exact opposite. The most prosperous time the world has ever seen was between ~1945 and the ~1970s under huge socialism and building environmentalism.

                      On the other hand, under capitalism we’re seeing increasing poverty and environmental degradation. In fact, the last 5000 years shows that capitalism like societies always collapse due to the rich always demanding more and preventing the poor from having anything.

                      You can choose to accept this or not, your a prisoner of your own anger

                      And there’s more of that psychological projection that RWNJs compulsively engage in when their beliefs are proved wrong.

                    • Wainwright

                      Red’s argument is so poewrful he doesn’t have to justify it! Classic righties.

                • xanthe

                  “The fact is the NZ left has always run this economy better than the right. You can’t handle that fact so you drivel on about the USSR.”

                  eeeeekkkk ! where did that come from,
                  Where were you during Rogernomics?

                  Where were you when this happened (wikipedia)
                  “On 12 March 2004, Minister of Conservation Chris Carter approved the access arrangement for Pike River Coal Ltd”

              • Draco T Bastard

                Science yes accept but not when contrary to left ideology, ie degree of impact and response to climate change

                And yet it’s the RWNJs that are disagreeing with what the science says because they need to keep the Ponzi Scheme that is capitalism going.

                economics, Venezuela, North Korea, history of Soviet Union, abject failure of closed economies and socialism in the 20th century doesn’t count as does not fit the left narrative

                I haven’t seen anyone on the Left call for a closed economy. Even I haven’t done that but I have pointed out that free-market should result in limited trade because trade is more expensive, in real terms, than each country producing what it uses.

                selected morality, the left dancers on the graves of pike river for political expediency

                It wasn’t the Left that promised to go get them and then reneged on that promise and lied about the reasons. the RWNJs don’t have any morality or ethics.

    • Molly 2.2

      You find yourself feeling empathy.

      And doesn’t Vicki herself display it well in the article:
      “…”But I think things need to be re-looked at when you’re given a time frame on your life … It’s not a life sentence.”

      She was also concerned other inmates faced with life-threatening conditions might not get the chance she had to go home to their family, because they don’t have the same support she received from her well-known brother, professional boxer David “Brown Buttabean” Letele and the public he rallied….

    • Incognito 2.3

      Compassion is impossible to measure but often easier to spot although sometimes it is seen as ‘being soft’ or a sign of ‘weakness’.

      Many studies have shown that empathy and compassion can be learned.

      NB this is a response to your comment, not to you personally.

      Enjoy your Sunday.

  3. saveNZ 3

    Have to agree with Winston on this. Have a relative in hospitality for 8 years at the same job. The firm has changed ownership and he’s been told to sign a zero hour contract (which I thought was banned). So many of the hospitality jobs are not real or sustainable jobs. The power balance is wrong in this industry and the NZ taxpayer has to subsidise all these hospitality workers on minimum wages and zero hour contracts with WINZ, Health, social services. Meanwhile real hospitality businesses are going under because there are so many fake ones competing against each other on each corner and most of them half empty.

    Like 3rd rate private education providers, hospitality has the side industry of supplying work and residency visas to people as the real goal.

    “Winston Peters has rubbished claims New Zealand needs another 200,000 workers in the service industry as “alternative facts”.”

    “If there is a shortage, Mr Peters says it can be filled by the 92,000 young people not in education, training or employment, and the 130,000 currently unemployed.”

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/05/worker-shortage-alternative-facts-winston-peters.html

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.1

      God! I’m agreeing with Winston on this one.

    • Foreign waka 3.2

      saveNZ – I saw the other day a program about recruitment of mercenaries and the business model designed to squeeze the wages – race to the bottom policies.
      This has created child soldiers.
      Is the same “model” applied in our service industries, just replace child with immigrant.

    • “Winston Peters has rubbished claims New Zealand needs another 200,000 workers in the service industry as “alternative facts”.”

      I’m skeptical about those claims myself. My daughter does ten hours a week at Dominos – she tells me they’re advertising for staff even though they just hired four people. It’s a mystery to her, but not to me, having done rostered part-time work before: rostering staff gets so much easier when you have a large pool of workers available, and it also means you can give them fewer hours than they’d like, which fosters a healthy (for the employer’s profits) sense of competition among the staff for increased hours. Why we as a society would want to encourage and facilitate that practice is beyond me (it’s clear enough why National and its donors would want us to, but what about the rest of us?).

    • Antoine 3.4

      > “Winston Peters has rubbished claims New Zealand needs another 200,000 workers in the service industry as “alternative facts”. If there is a shortage, Mr Peters says it can be filled by the 92,000 young people not in education, training or employment, and the 130,000 currently unemployed.”

      That’s going to do wonders for the level of service

      A.

  4. adam 4

    If you have the time a awesome interview with film maker Alex Winter. A real nice deconstruction of the trial and punishment of Ross Ulbricht.

  5. garibaldi 5

    Re the French election which is about to take place. It looks similar to the American election….. neither candidate is suitable.
    The best one-liner I have seen was from Le Pen who said France will get a woman leader, either herself or Angela Merkel. Good one!

    • Wayne 5.1

      Whats wrong with Macron?

      On any objective measure he is a very impressive candidate. Sure he has not run for elective office before. But he has been a Minister in government. He also has one of the most impressive academic and intellectual records seen in recent years among presidential candidates.

      Couple that withe amazing chutzpah to even stand in the circumstances, then he could be quite an extraordinary president. Or not.

      • xanthe 5.1.1

        Not !
        Corporate finance plant, IMHO

      • Ad 5.1.2

        It’s a good sign that Macron in France is considered as toxic by the hard left and much as the hard right. Both extremes in recent European and UK elections have been shown to be as divisive and unable to govern as each other.

        I think the result won’t be as big a winning gap as one might hope – maybe 57% Macron to 43% Le Pen. So it’s another very clear warning to the Brussels bureaucrats to reform – hard and fast and big.

        And with zero Parliamentary friends Macron has yet to build a machine and win. That means he is going to have to be an astonishingly good coalition-builder.

        But he’s fresh, young, bright, and supports the broader collective called Europe.
        It’s all to play for.

        • millsy 5.1.2.1

          Macron supports war, privatisation, deregulation and austerity. At best, the French will probably get a continuation of Hollandism.

          • Ad 5.1.2.1.1

            How about listing his actual policies instead. Here’s a few:

            – The CICE tax credit system for firms would be converted into permanent payroll tax breaks for low-wage workers.

            – Low-wage earners would be exempted from certain social welfare levies, a measure that would put an extra month’s wage per year in the employee’s pocket.

            – 15 billion on energy/environment targets: exit within 5 years from coal-based energy production, shift towards alternative, renewable energy sources, rise in carbon tax.

            – 5 billion euros on health sector, including better reimbursement of glasses, dentures and hearing aids, plus move away from wasteful medicine packages that contain more pills than a patient needs.

            – State subsidy of 15,000 euros over 3 years for firms that hire people in 200 low-income neighborhoods.

            – Halve number of early primary school pupils to 12 per class in 12,000 low-income zones, with teachers given a bonus of 3,000 euros a year to work in such areas.

            All of which outflank on the left the UK, Australian or NZ Labour Parties.

            • adam 5.1.2.1.1.1

              You missed the one he introduced to parliament Ad.

              The anti-strike law

              And the his support of and possible drafting of the state of emergency act (against terrorists) which has curtailed rights in France for the last year.

              But sure, keep going with he is a good guy. Don’t listen to the unions and social democrat’s within France. They all far left in your opinion now?

  6. Wainwright 6

    I’ve been thinking about it, and i reckon Bill’s right. We need to bring liberalism down – in NZ!

    Bringing Liberalism Down.

    We’ve got a choice between two evils too – one greate rand one lesser. Labour stands for “budget responsibility” and slashing immigration and tinkering at the edges of the tax system. Same old neolib stuff. Liberals everywhere are demanding voters put two ticks next to Labour. But does it stack up? Is it the only game in town?

    NO, friends. There’s a third way! The crucial bit people miss is the hyping of a fourth term National government. Same as how Trumnp was attacked as a scary rightwing nightmare in the US, and he’s only just eradicated healthcare for millions of people.

    So maybe if you happen to be a true leftwing New Zealander, have a vote and want liberalism ended to create the space for the beginnings of a decent society, then cast some form of tactical vote for The Act Party.

    They’ll only get two or three members from a total of 121 in Parliament and support National. It would look like a one-term, lame duck Government, as opposed to a powerful LIttle Prime Ministership enjoing support from across the political spectrum.

    Under National/Act, media will (for some reason) not attack the left any more, so we’ll have space to breathe while neoliberalism (for some reason) fades away. And we can doo all that agitating and organising stuff too.

    But like Bill said, it’s maybe for the best if you don’t bother yourself by thinking about it. It’s probably safer and easier to just keep following instructions, and inventing strategies for people on the other side of the world whose election results won’t actually effect you.

    (This comment is obviously satire)

    • Bill 6.1

      Ridding NZ of liberalism – even simply replacing it with social democratic governance -would be a good thing Wainwright, right?

      In Scotland, there was an opening that was taken. In England and Wales there’s a possibility that is being diminished. In France there’s a small window of opportunity.

      And satire, unlike what you’ve written, is intelligent and cutting.

      • Wainwright 6.1.1

        Interesting you didn’t engage with the real point: if it’s so good for the left to vote in a hostile rightwing government in France, why not here? But in my experience your MO is always to assume anyone who doesn’t agree with you is stupid.

      • weka 6.1.2

        Riding NZ of neoliberalism is probably supported by most people here. It’s the strategy that is in contention.

        • Bill 6.1.2.1

          What strategy is there in NZ for ridding it of this political and economic cancer that you’d rather not see called liberalism? I don’t see any strategy – there is no opening or opportune set of circumstances in NZ at the moment that a strategy could be applied to.

          • weka 6.1.2.1.1

            I don’t think there is much in the way of useful strategy being discussed in NZ. As you know, my own position is that we hold as much of a left wing line as we can in the meantime. I’m open to radical change and would be interested in things that have some chance of working. But I also think that traditional ideas about that are problematic because we are running out of time re CC. I think CC will be the revolution of our lifetime and we’d best be ready for the tipping point.

            I see Jane Kelsey is giving a lecture on Beyond Neoliberalism next week. I don’t know if it’s being recorded.

            I do think the time is ripe for discussions about strategies, because there is enough in the mainstream now about how neoliberalism has failed that there is an opportunity to influence the debate about what we should do instead.

    • weka 6.2

      Bill’s post (and others advocating this approach) seemed to be largely predicated on a post-election activist movement accompanying the strategy of voting right, but I just don’t see that activist movement and consider the strategy reckless in its absence. If such an activist movement is possible at this time why isn’t it happening already?

      • Incognito 6.2.1

        I have tried to address this and twice submitted a Guest Post – most recent attempt yesterday afternoon – but the ‘lines are busy’ …

      • Bill 6.2.2

        Bill’s post was predicated on the existence of a very specific set of circumstances existing in a specific location – ie, France.

        • weka 6.2.2.1

          Fair enough. Do you think France has a chance at the right political movement to effect useful change then?

          • Bill 6.2.2.1.1

            I think if “the left” had the organisational capacity of ‘yesteryear’ to communicate across its various facets, it could have taken a reasonable punt on the Presidency front.

            The piece was supposed to be descriptive rather than prescriptive – highlighting possible openings.

            Perhaps La France insoumise (Mélenchon’s party) can make significant inroads in the up coming National Assembly elections.

            Regardless, for reasons I stated in the post, I think opposing Macron’s upcoming austerity is going far more problematic than tackling a ‘lame duck’ Le Pen.

  7. Incognito 7

    “Liam Dann: Why I hate politics”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11849862

    I cannot tell whether this is sarcasm or satire or both, with a light sprinkling of hypocrisy.

    Mr Dann wants to have his (quiet) life back and do just (!) business without the distractions of politics and all its machinations.

    Can we get back to market fundamentals now? No, because we have been sucked into an ideological bunfight.

    Satire, surely …

    Here’s my reply to Mr Dann’s commiserations:

    It’s the economists, stupid

  8. Cinny 8

    Watched Q+A this morning and was very impressed by brilliant young woman
    standing for Labour, Kiri Allan, you are a star. Looking forward to seeing you in the house later this year.

  9. greywarshark 9

    James James James has plenty to say, that is important.
    He makes me think of AAMilne’s James James Robinson Robinson Weatherby George Dupree.
    Lots of repetition with James, and self-importance – though he was only three.

    James James
    Morrison Morrison
    Weatherby George Dupree
    Took great
    Care of his Mother,
    Though he was only three.
    James James Said to his Mother,
    “Mother,” he said, said he;
    “You must never go down
    to the end of the town,
    if you don’t go down with me.”
    https://allpoetry.com/Disobedience

    Unfortunately TS commenters are a wandering lot in their search for Truth, Fairness and Decent Housing etc. So James, you can’t be blamed if you go somewhere else to play.

  10. joe90 10

    What hell do you have to lose?

    .

    Lots, apparently.

    President Donald Trump signaled Friday that he may not implement a 25-year-old federal program that helps historically black colleges finance construction projects on their campuses, suggesting that it may run afoul of the Constitution.

    In a signing statement on the $1.1 trillion omnibus government spending bill, Trump singled out the Historically Black College and University Capital Financing Program as an example of provisions in the funding bill “that allocate benefits on the basis of race, ethnicity, and gender.”

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/05/trump-historically-black-colleges-financing-unconstitutional-238061

  11. Ray 11

    Hopefully the disaster for Labour in the UK is not an pointer for their parliamentary elections.
    If nothing else it should wake the Left to what could happen if they don’t get out and vote, hopefully this will be a real energiser for those who tend to not bother to vote.
    Interesting times eh!

    • red-blooded 11.1

      I think we have to acknowledge that it probably is an indicator of the likely result in the upcoming general election, Ray. Labour in the UK is tearing itself apart, and unlike many others on this thread, I don’t blame just the parliamentary caucus or the supposed neo-liberals amongst its ranks: everyone is part of the same party and all must share the blame if they’re not managing to discuss their differences and then agree to a common approach and set of policies. I include Corbyn and his fans: they have to take their share of the blame. This election is going to be a rout and I doubt Corbyn will survive as leader (although who would want to step up in this situation is a pretty big question).

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1

        everyone is part of the same party and all must share the blame if they’re not managing to discuss their differences and then agree to a common approach and set of policies.

        True to some degree. If one side isn’t willing to talk and goes straight to the MSM with their BS then who’s fault is it?

      • Bill 11.1.2

        The membership will determine that. (Corbyn’s continued leadership)

      • Wainwright 11.1.3

        Only ooption for Corbyn and his fans was to not elect Corbyn leader because the neolibs were always willing to sink the party rather than grow spines and demonstrate real principle. How do you compromise with terrorists?

    • Bill 11.2

      Was a bit disquieting this morning to read that the Orange Order has won seats in Scotland by way of the Tory Party. Don’t think I can overstate the fuck-edness of that.

      Run that alongside the UKIP vote folding into the Tory vote south of the border…

      You’d think msm might pick up on that and scream blue murder, yes? Nah. Keep to the plan of dragging down Corbyn.

      Glad I don’t live there anymore.

      • Karen 11.2.1

        That is depressing news, Bill. Just when I thought the sectarianism in Scotland was starting to decline. (My partner is Scottish – grew up in a Catholic town in Ayrshire)

  12. Ed 13

    ‘NZ’s wealthiest UK-based citizens add millions to their fortunes’

    The events of the 1980s were most beneficial to these people.

    Gibbs.
    Myers
    Richwhite
    Watson

    To call them Zealanders is a bit of a stretch. The 0.01% owe allegiance to no society but themselves.

    Many would describe these vulture capitalists in ungenerous terms. Stuff does not because it is owned by another billionaire.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/92309942/never-mind-the-brexit-new-zealands-wealthiest-ukbased-citizens-add-hundreds-of-millions-to-their-fortunes

    • Tamati Tautuhi 13.1

      The NZ oligarchs of the 1980’s Gibbs, Fay Richwhite, Brierly and Fletchers did particularly well out of the sale of State Assets and the systemic asset stripping of
      NZ Inc. In hindsight our politicans were incredibly naive and shortsighted and quickly squandered any cash generated by the sale of these State Assets, also we as a country lost the revenue producing capacity of these assets to fund social services ?

      • Ed 13.1.1

        In other countries, these people would not be knighted.
        They would be tried.
        For treason.

        Some of our politicians may have been shortsighted and naive; others will not get such a generous report in history.

  13. weka 14

    Does anyone know why this link goes to iCloud?

    http://web.me.com/jane_kelsey/Jane/Welcome.html

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Govt to protect jobs and businesses with extra support
    In-principle decision to extend wage subsidy to support businesses and protect jobs Support will be nationwide in recognition of Auckland’s position in NZ economy and the impact of Level 2 Mortgage deferral scheme to be extended to support households The Government is taking action to support businesses and protect jobs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • National Does the Nation a Disservice
    Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters today called for National Party and Opposition leader Judith Collins to stop undermining democracy. “New Zealanders are sadly being fed a steady stream of misinformation about the pre-election period from the National Party,” said Mr Peters. “Its effect is to sow doubt about the legitimacy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech at the graduation of Wing 340
    Graduation of Wing 340 2pm, 13 August 2020, The Royal New Zealand Police College [CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY] Introduction Ladies and gentlemen, it is a privilege to be here today to celebrate the graduation of Wing 340. Let us begin by acknowledging the presence of Coalition Government colleague, Police Minister the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • More Police deployed for COVID efforts
    More Police are being deployed to the frontline to help manage the COVID response, after the graduation today of 56 new officers. “The ceremonies for the graduation of Wing 340 at the Royal New Zealand Police College were trimmed to take account of new Alert Level 2 restrictions in Wellington,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Transitional housing provides much needed support for Taumarunui whānau
                                                                     Transitional housing provides much needed support for Taumarunui whānau   New emergency and transitional homes will help ease a housing shortage in Taumarunui and provide whānau with much needed support, say Māori Development Minister, Nanaia Mahuta and Whānau Ora Minister, Peeni Henare.  The Ministers officially opened five two-bedroom units ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government announces plan to tackle problem plastics and seven single-use plastic items
    Following the success of the phase out of single-use plastic shopping bags, the Government now has plans to phase out more single-use and problem plastics to reduce waste and protect the environment announced Associate Minister for the Environment Eugenie Sage. The proposals are to phase-out: some hard-to-recycle PVC and polystyrene ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New opportunities for Kōpū marine facilities
    A commercial and industrial site in Thames-Coromandel will receive $8.2 million to revamp its marine-servicing infrastructure and create new economic development opportunities, Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has announced. This project is being supported from the $3 billion ‘shovel ready’ fund set aside in Budget 2020 to kick-start the post COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • PM comments on Auckland COVID-19 case
    After 102 days we have our first cases of Covid-19 outside of a Managed Isolation or Quarantine facility in New Zealand. Shortly I will ask Dr Bloomfield to set out the details of the case. While we have all worked incredibly hard to prevent this scenario, we have also planned ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Significant investment in Raukūmara Pae Maunga to prevent Raukūmara forest collapse
    An iwi-Crown approach programme to restore the Raukūmara forest on the East Coast of the North Island and boost employment opportunities for whānau, particularly rangatahi/young people, will receive $34 million funding, Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage has announced. “Raukūmara Pae Maunga is a partnership with Te Whānau-ā-Apanui, Ngāti Porou, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New partnership central to delivering more Māori housing
    Government agencies and partners are working closer together to provide more Māori Housing through the Te MAIHI o te Whare Māori – the Māori and Iwi Housing Innovation Framework for Action (MAIHI). MAIHI is a kaupapa Māori approach that drives a system change to give effect and impact on Māori ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Manawatū Gorge replacement highway drives forward
    Site work is soon to begin on Te Ahu a Turanga: Manawatū Tararua Highway, the project to replace the former SH3 route through the Manawatū Gorge, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Phil Twyford was today in Woodville at the signing of a formal agreement by members of the Alliance ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Pacific Ministers meet to discuss regional economic priorities
    The Pacific Islands Forum Economic Ministers Meeting (FEMM) begins today and will focus on the major economic and social impacts of COVID-19 on the Pacific.  FEMM is an important congregation of Economic Ministers and senior officials from around the region, and for the first time, the annual meeting will be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Formal apology and payment to George Nepata
    Cabinet has approved a formal apology and ex gratia payment to former soldier George Nepata, announced Defence Minister Ron Mark. This payment is to recognise the New Zealand Defence Force’s failure to provide Mr Nepata with a safe system of work in April 1989 when, as a result of an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Report into Iain Lees-Galloway’s expenditure
    A report undertaken by Ministerial Services into Iain Lees-Galloway’s ministerial expenditure has found no evidence of any inappropriate transactions or spending. Ministerial Services undertook a line by line review of all his expenditure, including staff and spouse expenses for the period 1 January 2019 to 30 June 2020.  “I commissioned ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Managed isolation charges to start 11 August
    Managed isolation charges for returnees will come into force from 12.01am Tuesday 11th August, after they passed their last cabinet milestone today, Housing Minister Megan Woods said. “The new charging system balances the rights of New Zealanders to return home and helps reduce pressure on the managed isolation and quarantine ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Update on New Zealand and the Cook Islands travel bubble
    The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Henry Puna have welcomed the completion of phase one in the establishment of a travel bubble between New Zealand and the Cook Island. Negotiations on the text of an ‘Arrangement to Facilitate Quarantine-Free Travel ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • One-stop ‘jobs and training’ shop goes live
    The Government has launched a new online, phone and onsite service to help New Zealanders connect to a range of employment support and products for workers and businesses affected by COVID-19, announced Minister of Education Chris Hipkins and Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. Connected.govt.nz is a one-stop-shop for jobseekers, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • MSD security guards to be paid Living Wage
    Security guards contracted to the Ministry of Social Development will be paid at least the Living Wage from next month supporting the Government’s commitment towards fair pay and employment conditions, announced Minister for  Social Development Carmel Sepuloni.   “MSD was  among the first government agencies to pay its employees the living ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New strategy to ensure nature thrives
    The Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage today launched Te Mana o te Taiao, the Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy - a way forward that envisions Aotearoa New Zealand as a place where ecosystems are healthy and resilient, and people embrace the natural world. “Many of New Zealand’s plants and wildlife species ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Provider Languages Fund will support Pacific Wellbeing approach
    “Pacific languages, cultures and identity are essential to the health, wellbeing and lifetime success of our Pacific peoples and their communities in Aotearoa. The strength and resilience of Pacific Aotearoa is not only vital to their own prosperity but integral to the prosperity of all New Zealanders, and is particularly ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19: More funding for schools and boost to construction sector
    ·       $38 million to help schools cover unexpected costs related to COVID-19 ·       $69 million upgrade for online learning ·       $107 million contingency funding to support school construction suppliers facing additional costs due to the lockdown. The Government is releasing $214 million from the COVID-19 response and recovery fund to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Stay safe on the tracks – Rail Safety Week
    Despite the Government installing safety upgrades around the country, people should still take care around rail crossings, said Transport Minister Phil Twyford launching Rail Safety Week. Phil Twyford said installing safety infrastructure is crucial, but we are encouraging people to be more careful around trains too. “We’re making good progress ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government backs Manawatū social housing project
    The Government is providing a cash injection to help Palmerston North City Council complete a programme to provide 78 social housing units for vulnerable tenants. The $4.7 million to build 28 units in the Papaioea Place redevelopment comes from the $3 billion set aside for infrastructure in the Government’s COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major funding boost for Predator Free Banks Peninsula
    A pest free Banks Peninsula/Te Pātaka o Rākaihautū is one step closer with a $5.11 million boost to accelerate this project and create jobs, announced Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage in Canterbury today. “This is a game changer for this ambitious project to restore the native wildlife and plants on Ōtautahi/Christchurch’s doorstep ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Major investment for indoor sports in Hawke’s Bay
    A Government grant of $6.4 million will expand the Pettigrew Arena in Taradale with new indoor courts of national standard. “The project is likely to take 18 months with approximately 300 people employed through the process,” Grant Robertson said. “The expansion will increase the indoor court space up to 11 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New infrastructure for Far North tourist town
    The Far North tourist destination of Mangonui is to receive Government funding to improve waterfront infrastructure, open up access to the harbour and improve water quality, Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has announced. A total of $6.5 million from the $3 billion set aside in the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government remains committed to Women’s Cricket World Cup
    The Government has re-affirmed its commitment to supporting the hosting of the ICC Women’s Cricket World Cup, which the ICC has delayed from 2021 to 2022. “This is obviously a disappointing decision for cricket players and fans around the world and for the White Ferns and their supporters here at ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Green light for Te Awa River Ride in $220m nationwide cycleways investment
    Cyclists and walkers will now have a safer way to get around Taupō, Tūrangi, and between Hamilton and Cambridge, with funding for shared paths and Te Awa River Ride, Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter announced today. “The Te Awa River Ride is the latest part of massive growth ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Six major ‘shovel-ready’ cycleways funded in Christchurch
    Six major cycle routes will be completed in Christchurch thanks to funding from the Government’s investment in shovel-ready infrastructure as part of the COVID-19 recovery Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter announced today. $125 million will be invested to kick-start construction and fund the completion of the following cycleway ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Police facilities for Whanganui
    Plans are underway for a brand new state-of-the-art hub for Whanganui’s justice and social agencies, following confirmation the ageing Whanganui Central Police Station is to be replaced. Police Minister Stuart Nash has announced $25 million in new infrastructure spending to improve facilities for the wider community, and for staff who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Relativity adjustment for Waikato-Tainui and Ngāi Tahu
    An adjustment payment has been made to Waikato-Tainui and Ngāi Tahu under the relativity mechanisms in their 1995 and 1997 Treaty of Waitangi settlements, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little announced today. The latest payments to Waikato-Tainui and Ngāi Tahu are $2,700,000 and $2,600,000 respectively to ensure the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Auckland rail upgrades pick up steam
    Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Transport Minister Phil Twyford today kicked off the start of the Auckland NZ Upgrade Programme rail projects which will support over 400 jobs and help unlock our biggest city. Both ministers marked the start of enabling works on the third main rail line project ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • PGF support for Wairoa creates jobs
    The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) investment of $3.78 million in Wairoa will create much needed economic stimulus and jobs, Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. PGF projects announced today include: $200,000 loan to Nuhaka Kiwifruit Holdings Ltd (operated by Pine Valley Orchard Ltd) to increase the productivity ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Public and Māori housing to trial renewable energy technology
    Tenants in public and Māori housing may be benefiting from their own affordable renewable energy in future – a fund to trial renewable energy technology for public and Māori housing has today been announced by Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods and Associate Minister for Housing (Māori Housing) Nanaia Mahuta. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • $2.7m for Hokianga infrastructure
    Hokianga will receive $2.7 million to redevelop four of its wharves and upgrade its water supply, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. Far North District Council will receive $1.8 million from the Provincial Growth Fund for the work on the wharves. “The work will include the construction of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New fund to support housing and construction sector
    A $350 million Residential Development Response Fund is being established to support the residential construction sector and to minimise the economic impact from COVID-19, the Housing Minister Dr Megan Woods has announced. “The Residential Development Response Fund will help to progress stalled or at-risk developments that support our broader housing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government investment to boost Auckland’s community recycling network
    As part of a broader plan to divert waste from landfill, the Government today announced $10.67 million for new infrastructure as part of the Resource Recovery Network across the Auckland region. “This key investment in Auckland’s community recycling network is part of the Government’s Infrastructure Reference Group ‘shovel ready’ projects ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Te Papa transformation starts at Cameron Road
    The Government is investing $45 million in the first stage of an ambitious urban development project for Tauranga that will employ up to 250 people and help the region grow, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says the funding has been allocated out of the $3 billion ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • PGF supports Hawke’s Bay community and environmental projects
    The Government is investing more than $1.6 million from the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) for a wide range of community and environmental projects in Hawke’s Bay, Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. These announcements today are part of the Government’s commitment to supporting regional economies in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Low-emissions options for heavy transport a step closer
    Getting low-emission trucks on the road is a step closer with investment in infrastructure to support hydrogen vehicles, the Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods has announced. The Infrastructure Reference Group has provisionally approved $20 million for New Plymouth company Hiringa Energy to establish a nationwide network of hydrogen-fuelling stations. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago