Open Mike 08/08/2018

Written By: - Date published: 5:53 am, August 8th, 2018 - 178 comments
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178 comments on “Open Mike 08/08/2018”

  1. swordfish 1

    I’ve just published an El-Quicko post … comparing the latest Colmar Brunton ratings (both Party Support and Preferred PM) with the same measures for previous incoming governments at the same (11 month) stage into their first terms.

    Covers all 7 incoming governments since regular polling commenced in 1969.

    https://sub-zero-politics.blogspot.com/2018/08/winter-of-discontent_61.html

    • Dennis Frank 1.1

      Well done, a comprehensive analysis of which each part supports what the previous part tells us, confirming my impression that the govt+Greens are ok so far.

    • ianmac 1.2

      Very interesting Swordfish. So the Bridges ranting is meaningless?

    • Cinny 1.3

      Swordfish, you are a genius with poll data. Am sure I’m speaking for many here when I say we really appreciate all the work you put into comparing, organising and analysis of the data.

      Love your work, thanks again.

    • Bearded Git 1.4

      Nice one Swordfish…it looks like the Key government was a freak and I guess the Nats are still basking in the glow of this (not that I understand it).

      As Key memories slide into history people will realise that a government where Bridges refuses to tell Collins to delete a nasty erroneous tweet and Collins defies the leader and says it has not been discussed with Bridges is an unelectable shower.

      Looking forward to the next election.

    • Thanks swordfish, very interesting, and confirms the “Struggling not coping” meme is just that, a meme put out there to create a sense of failure.

      With all the overseas turmoil, issues with Micoplasma bovis, pressures of pay rounds and underfunding being discovered by the current administration, you would think people’s confidence would have flagged more.

      But by tackling housing and education and health issues head on, P.M. Ardern and team has shown she grasps the large threats, as do they, and remain undaunted.

      There are so many fronts with doughty battles to be fought that some are feeling they are still on the bottom of the pile.

      We have to present those issues, as it appears the coalition is listening, within the parameters of their ideologies. We need to present cases for the carers the sickness beneficiaries and the group suffering addictions.

      Some of the current methods are clearly not assisting people, and are cash based thinking.

    • Violet 1.6

      Love your work. A much needed credible voice of sanity in a world of fake news, manufactured outrage and general all round bullshit. So much appreciated.

  2. Ed 2

    Big pharmacist being given a huge platform on the corporate media .

    • Bearded Git 2.1

      Agreed Ed…that sly devious guy on Checkpoint last night was PR with knobs on for big Pharma…I missed his intro and waited to the end for it to be confirmed that he was representing Pharma interests.

      Long Live Pharmac I say; if only more countries had the balls to set this up like the Clark government did.

  3. Ed 3

    It’s a bit rich hearing Seymour, Franks, Brash and all the other ACT far right extremists whinging on about their access to free speech.
    The party of the 1% gets much more than 1% of the airwaves on RNZ and the corporate media.
    Why our taxpayer money is used to support the party of the global elite is more of a question.

    • solkta 3.1

      Yes that’s right, politicians from right wing parties should not be paid for their work – ridiculous!

    • Wayne 3.2

      It is not about voter support, it is about the issue itself. All sorts of people get coverage depending on what they do, for instance Russell Norman and his kayak protest.

      In any event event Don Brash has not just been the Leader of ACT when it was a 1% party. The reason for his relatively high profile is that he has been Reserve Bank Governor and Leader of the National Party. He was actually asked to speak about his time as Leader of the National Party.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1

        The reason for his relatively high profile is that he has been Reserve Bank Governor and Leader of the National Party.

        And fucked up both pretty badly because of his failed ideology.

  4. Dennis Frank 4

    Redline: “The education workers’ union at Auckland University just had the police called to shut down their information stall, because it was rightly critical of the vice chancellor. No fuss made about that from Seymour and his buddies.”

    I expect nobody told them? Nobody informed the media – or they did but the media couldn’t see that it’s a freedom of speech issue?

    So the union was allowed to operate a stall on campus, provided that they demonstrate subservience to the authorities and refrain from comment on relevant headline news?

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 4.1

      Didn’t brash, trotter et al TELL everyone this would be the outcome of banning S&M talking?

      Sheesh, the criticism was loudest from those on here who support unions.

      Let the unions recruit on campus. at least they’re modernising their approach for new members and should be free to pursue there strategy.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1

        Didn’t brash, trotter et al TELL everyone this would be the outcome of banning S&M talking?

        Last time I looked they weren’t banned from talking.

      • greywarshark 4.1.2

        Don’t splutter on your Shrewsbury biscuit – it makes them soggy.

        • cleangreen 4.1.2.1

          The University of Auckland is platforming Don Brash?

          if we don’t show any interest in the ‘brash’ among us then all the fest will be amonst the converted already and we dont meed to care abbout the spread of liberal idea being sent abouit how to rort the system and make money which is what Don Brash is advocating.

  5. Climate change in the near future:

    I’m going to go out on a limb here because a) I can and b) it should generate an animated discussion or two. I expect to be criticised, so feel free!

    My reasons for doing so are that we are still living in what someone called ‘the perpetual present,’ as if life, with steady improvements perhaps, will go on forever just like it is now. Instead, we are sleepwalking to our doom. And there are still, by neglect, still climate change deniers: for example Soimon berating the Coalition government in parliament for stopping oil and gas exploration.

    The whole, it seems, of the Northern Hemisphere is experiencing a heat wave. Certainly in Europe and Japan, though we don’t hear so much about North America, apart from the fires in California.

    • So, expect severely poor harvests in the wheat growing areas, such as the Ukraine, in September.
    • Expect the price of food to rise rather rapidly in the months up to Christmas, especially in the UK, which can only produce 60% of its own food.
    • Perhaps expect food riots in the major European cities such as London, Paris and Berlin in the new year.
    • We could see the imposition of martial law as early a January or February in areas of Europe, as authorities struggle to contain the situation.
    • Certainly expect the flow of desperate climate refugees from North Africa and the Middle East into Europe to increase, and to see some rather draconian responses from the southern European countries.
    • Expect ‘wet bulb’ conditions to spread through the tropical areas, with resulting poor harvests and increasing mortality rates.
    • This will trigger increased migration towards the north – ie the USA, with more trouble on the Mexican border.
    • Large areas of the Middle East will become unbearable during the day, and barely liveable at night. This is already the case – one city in the Middle East recorded an average 24 hour temperature of over 42C.

    As a direct result of increasing sea levels and increased precipitation in some areas expect floods, and even severe floods with run off in the parched areas, as happened recently in California.

    And what about our part of the world in the near future?

    • Our winter has been warmer than usual, with less rainfall in the South Island and more in the North.
    • Expect to see temperature records broken during the summer months, with a poor harvest generally in the autumn.
    • Climate events will increase in frequency and severity and will result in deaths and large scale damage.
    • The winter rains in Australia have failed, again, so expect to see large areas of the wheat belt turn into a dust bowl, with farmers being forced off their land, or requiring help from state and federal governments to get through.
    • Expect the pressure on the northern areas of Australia from climate refugees to increase, with the predictable hard-line response from the Oz government.

    I could go on, but finally, expect the Herald and/or Stuff to devote at least one headline to a kitten stuck up a tree!

    • Jenny 5.1

      +100

      What ever will it take for our cloth headed politicians get their head around the issue legislate to take the urgent action required?

      The new normal

      “Mendocino Complex fire now largest in California history, capping destructive year”
      Joseph Serna, James Queally, Alene Tchekmedyian – Los Angeles Times, August 6, 2018

      • greywarshark 5.1.1

        Tony Veitch etc
        My reasons for doing so are that we are still living in what someone called ‘the perpetual present,’ as if life, with steady improvements perhaps, will go on forever just like it is now. Instead, we are sleepwalking to our doom.

        I agree. As I have been saying similar for a week. It suddently has dumped on me and I am too anxious to look at all you have listed. But nobody I know is really exercised. They are all fully occupied chasing their own goals. Which may come to nothing or they will be financially ruined and have never learned to tough it out. Or ready to swoop on the old lady next door and take over her house and garden as an unarguable matter.

        This is a piece about someone with a dog pointing out the importance of controls for dog owners and respect for each other. How can this modern generation brought up to elbow everyone else and go straight to their own target ever be able to settle into a civil and supportive lifestyle with strength in numbers and everyone doing something to aid the collective, the co-operative?
        (https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/106056338/no-actually-your-dog-isnt-friendly-and-should-be-on-a-leash

        I think many NZs have been socialised out of civility, which has been replaced with the cult of independence; the hard working achieve and the others have to be carried or dropped. There are a lot like that. Ugly thought. And among the apparently nicer middle-class they are just as determined to rise on everyone’s input and claim it all, only not so brutal in their methods.

    • Cinny 5.2

      Hydroponic warehouses to grow food. Am at a bit of a loss why NZ isn’t doing this already considering the current circumstances.

      Farmers could do the same to diversify, no drought worries, no flooding worries (depending on location). It could actually save the country loads of $$$ by not having to pay out so much to farmers during droughts etc etc.

      But hey, how’s that kitten doing….and what is Kim Kardashian wearing? Their click bait priorities are more important than the demise of the planet and the human race.

      Does my head in too Tony.

    • Anne 5.3

      I totally agree – with your last sentence. 😈

    • Exkiwiforces 5.4

      Well Tony it’s just got a lot worst for the State of NSW with the State Premier declaring the state is 100% in drought from today.

      https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/state-government-confirms-nsw-is-now-100-per-cent-in-drought/news-story/5c00dbdf8941dcf9c46dda6ebad68eaa

    • sumsuch 5.5

      On ‘Gardeners’ World’ I encountered lovable soft comfort sort Monty Don saying amid his golden Labradors , easy as poss, it was the warmest winter since records began. Major prob, that was in the mid 1600s in Britain. Off camera he must be pulling out his curly hobbit hair in morbid despair. Economics demands we, as him, carry on at gay a-pace til the cliff.

  6. Ad 6

    Another slightly hopeful piece from one of my favourite US political commentators Heather Digby Parton. This time she’s focussing on the impact of the triple negatives of Russia, immigration, and trade are impacting in Ohio:

    https://www.salon.com/2018/08/07/donald-trump-digs-himself-into-deeper-trouble-and-his-voters-are-finally-noticing/

  7. Marcus Morris 7

    The best part of the Brash Speech notes: Comments re the present government have yet to be proven and (iii) is highly contentious

    On National
     A hugely disappointing Government:
    I. They pledged to reduce the gap between NZ incomes
    and those in Australia, and utterly failed;
    II. They pledged to make housing more afordable, and
    utterly failed
    III. They pledged to nalise Treaty settlements within six years of being elected and to scrap Maori electorates, and failed in both respects
     In my own view, the present Government is likely to do a better job in making housing more afordable, but
    probably a worse job in closing the income gap with Australia, and an equally poor job in moving New Zealand towards a society where every citizen, irrespective of ethnicity, has equal political rights.

    • Not too long ago Marcus, Australia changed and LOWERED penal rates.
      Many Australians are now contracted workers with lesser conditions.
      Many are now under employed. So they are coming down to meet us, $24???

      • Marcus Morris 7.1.1

        Not sure of your point here Patricia. Are you saying that we should wait until Australia’s rates come “back” to ours without ours moving “up”. Pardon my ignorance but is $24 our aspirational rate or is Australia coming back to that. I presume you mean by “penal” rate that which is paid for over time – do we still have such a thing.

  8. AsleepWhileWalking 8

    In this mornings WTF? read landlords demand to see bank statements in KFC test.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12102786

    “They’re paying somebody’s mortgage and I see a lot of people who are low socio-economic and their bank statements literally will read, ‘KFC, McDonalds, the dairy, KFC, McDonalds, court fine’, trucks that they buy, goods that they can’t afford.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 8.1

      If the exact same proportion of income was spent on, ‘Uber Eats, Habit gym, Ponsonby restaurant, Uber Eats, Habit gym, craft beer bar’, is that a more reliable money manager?” asked chief executive Sue Chetwin.

      Independent Property Managers Association (IPMA) president Karen Withers said it was becoming more prevalent. She said new immigrants often offered bank accounts without prompting, saying it was standard practice in other countries.

      Oh, well hey….if they do it in Asia…

    • SaveNZ 8.2

      I think a lot of migrants offer bank accounts to show proof of funds to pay rent, as they don’t have a job or any references when they arrive but still need accomodation. Never heard of local tenants being asked to provide them, let alone bank statements that have the actual transactions and then be judged on them!

      Personally feel that rental agents should have the same regulation as real estate sales agents. What is the difference? They both go into people’s houses, have keys and in position of trust. At present the landlord is liable for the rental agents behaviour and not the actual rental agent in the tenancy tribunal, the whole area needs a clean up with personal liability for behaviour put on the person who holds the keys and makes the day to day decisions.

    • We discovered that by taking housekeeping as a cash lump and managing on that by using “Real” money, our purchases were more private. Our payments for chemist, wine, golf petrol and food were our business…. just saying.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1

        It should be private anyway with no one having access to it without evidence of a crime being committed.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.4

      They’re paying somebody’s mortgage

      And she doesn’t see the problem of poor people being forced to pay somebody else’s mortgage.

  9. gsays 9

    @ Marcus above.

    Heh… “…equal political rights…”

    Does that mean we all get former tory MPs to advocate our point of view a la Katherine Rich of ‘Food and Grocery Council’, or Ken Shirley from the Road Transport Forum?

    Awesome, I vote for that.

  10. Jenny 10

    There is no way that vile racist, Don Brash, should have an unchallenged platform anywhere.

    • Chris T 10.1

      He wasn’t challenged

      He was silenced

      • arkie 10.1.1

        We keep hearing a lot of talking from this supposedly silenced person

      • Cinny 10.1.2

        Yet brash has been all over the airways and will be speaking at Akld Uni.

        I’d hardly call that silenced.

      • Tricledrown 10.1.3

        Chris T as if no one knows what he’s about.
        He wasn’t silenced it was a safety issue
        Issue.
        Don Brash is a deliberately divisive person who attracts far right activists which attracts those who oppose.
        He is the last colonist who refuses to accept the truth about the damage it did to Maori.
        He is happy to have the support of neo Fascists and support their free speech.
        Even though the Fascist goal is to Deny everyone else free speech.

        • bwaghorn 10.1.3.1

          Safety issue my arse!! The woman lied otherwise she would have informed the cops .
          Can’t stand brashs politics but it’s a slippery slope banning him from speaking.

        • Gosman 10.1.3.2

          What was the safety issue exactly?

        • Enough is Enough 10.1.3.3

          So all you have to do now to silence someone is threaten violence?

          • Cinny 10.1.3.3.1

            Or rather to not do anything about said threat.

            Or not change ones mind once said threat is exposed and personally acknowledged that it wasn’t a personal threat of violence.

            • Jenny 10.1.3.3.1.1

              Brash is talking at Auckland University. But Auckland University banned Hone Harawira from speaking there, “because of threatened protests”.

              (And no angry white crowd raised $50 thousand to take the University to court for banning Harawira).

              Brash should not be allowed a sole platform to spout his racist lies unchallenged.

              Let Hone Harawira speak on the same platform.

              If the University don’t allow Harawira to speak, I for one will be protesting. Will they shut down Don Brash because of protesters?

              Probably not.

              But it will again prove Te Reo Putake correct, “There is no such thing as free speech”

              https://thestandard.org.nz/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-speech/

              • Cinny

                Thanks Jenny for that info, don’t think I’ve read/heard about that in the media since they’ve been running the ‘brash ban’ story. They should mention it, it’s relevant, especially in regards to the subject matter brash spins.

  11. Adrian Thornton 11

    More free speech news….

    Alex Jones Banned or Censored By Facebook/Apple/Youtube/Spotify

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/alex-jones-purge-facebook-spineless-corporation-no-moral-leadership-2018-8?r=US&IR=T

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/apple-removes-most-of-us-conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-podcasts-from-itunes-1.3587718

    I have no love for Jones, but this is a very dangerous moment for us all, effectively now a few of the world biggest and most powerful social media corporations, have the power to censor free speech according to their own world view of what is real news/fake news or conspiracy theory and all that that implies.

    So I don’t know about you, but having Zuckerberg monitoring what news feeds most people I meet see, doesn’t sound at all good to me.

    • Andre 11.1

      Meh. Anyone wanting a good laugh or the kooks and cranks that take him seriously can go direct to his websites or listen to his radio rants. He’s still got more than enough platforms to spew his lawsuit-bait that I don’t see his free-speech rights are significantly infringed.

      And if corporations are starting to think they have a responsibility to ensure their platforms are not used to cause harm, then that’s a good thing, even if the way they choose to do that is flawed.

      Of course, the better way to ensure these massive monopolies don’t get control over our discourse is to simply not give them that control to begin with. Get your info closer to the source, rather than mediated through the massive intermediaries.

    • Cinny 11.2

      I disagree Adrian

      alex jones was utilising private companies free platforms (youtube, fb etc), in doing so he like anyone else was required to follow their rules/guidelines and he didn’t. As private companies they have every right to ban him and control content on their sites.

      He still has his website and he still has his cable channel. If his website was taken down, I’d feel different about the situation.

      • mauī 11.2.1

        I see it a little differently. These private companies are so large they control what people see on the net.

        For some time now alternative media voices have been demonetized or taken down by these online gatekeepers. Jimmy Dore is one such victim and there are countless others. The aim isn’t to restrict hate speech or fascism, it is to control content.

        • Cinny 11.2.1.1

          But if one owns a site, would they not have the right to control the content that appears on their platform?

          • mauī 11.2.1.1.1

            Let’s say one person owns 99 out of the 100 stores in town, they ban all people they see as linked to hate speech from their stores. The definition of hate is poorly defined and some of the townsfolk feel aggrieved that they are included in that label.

            The 1 store that accepts all comers attracts many of the townspeople that disagree with a lot of the views of the owner of the 99 stores. Those people end up maligned by the rest of the community… An interesting yet ghastly scenario…

            • Puckish Rogue 11.2.1.1.1.1

              Interesting point, does something as ubiquitous as youtube suddenly have a greater responsibility for what it posts or allows to post

              • marty mars

                Greater than what?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  In that due its size and reach youtube has become almost like a quasi-like government institution and therefore the normal rules of what a commercial business can and can’t do don’t apply

                  • McFlock

                    It’s an interesting concept – I’d go more with Google in particular becoming effectively a Standard Oil-style monopoly, which gives it more power than a regular supplier.

                    But that having been said, I suspect that Standard Oil would have limited what it carried in oil cars to “oil”, and not “shit”. Looks to me like there’s an opening for a 4chan/8chan-style nutbar video echochamber. “Super-8Chan”, maybe?

            • Cinny 11.2.1.1.1.2

              Maui, thanks for explaining, much appreciated. Can see where you are coming from.

          • Patricia Bremner 11.2.1.1.2

            They had a programme here in Aus, re Facebook on its own internal monitoring, and showed policy parameters they used to decide to take things down or list them as disturbing.

            An example item was a video which was still available showing a toddler being hit punched and slapped. He was screaming and sobbing.They listed it as “Disturbing”.

            You heard the moderator explaining that this had been viewed a huge number of times but had a small % of complaints. They did take it down, but people had uploaded it and shared it putting it out there forever.

            I now do not use Facebook where I can avoid it. For obvious reasons, I want no part of their “Blood money” made from those clicks!!

        • Adrian Thornton 11.2.1.2

          @mauī +1Exactly right,

        • joe90 11.2.1.3

          it is to control content

          Which they’re entitled to do, on their own platform.

          But no one’s stopping you getting you daily fill of AJ’s, or Dore’s fuckwittery.

          See, easy.

          /

          https://www.jimmydorecomedy.com/

          https://www.infowars.com/

    • Tricledrown 11.3

      Adrian Jones is a nasty hate speech purveyor giving him a platform is akin to the resurrection of Hitler.
      If he was a Muslim he would be in Guantanamo.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 11.3.1

        Do you come here to dribble inanities from your keyboard into my conscience?

        Comparing anyone who doesn’t proclaim that the eradication of whole races is good of their race to hitler immediately makes anything you say around that comment sound downright retarded. And you, it makes you sound retarded.

    • adam 11.4

      If you look a bit closer, it’s not about free speech at all. Jones has crossed a line ever since the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. From that point on he started to call for people to harass and attack real people, and it’s slowly been getting worse. He even attacked Joe Rogan who is supposed to be a friend of his and subtly suggested violence would bring Joe back into line. Here is a good piece from TYT that goes through the points.

    • Bill 11.5

      Hmm. Throw youtube and the rest of them alongside that list of so-called fake news websites drawn up by the anonymous people at Snopes that a fair few people rely on as their radar.

      Then there was the BBC having to back down over killing youtube independence channels that drew sweet all comment hereabouts, because…well, was it because too many people were busy elevating and platforming Southern and Molyneux?

      Tommy Robinson – elevated and martyred off the back of the nazi pug nonsense (Where was the “left”?)

      Folks across the left applauding the idea that fb play the role of censor.

      Throw it in alongside the insistence for “correct” political thought/analysis that gets expressed by decrying any skeptical take on “official” news as being the markings of a Kremlin stooge or whatever…

      And the rallying cry is about opposing fascism?!

      • marty mars 11.5.1

        Some of the conundrums seem to be doing your head in there bill.

        • Bill 11.5.1.1

          No conundrums.

          What I see is continuity and similarity in the basic stuff mentioned, but it being approached with oodles of hypocrisy by some.

          • marty mars 11.5.1.1.1

            Not sure where the hypocrisy is – just because you didn’t see the left complaining and fighting the things you mentioned doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And I suppose some of the left oppose your views on russia and whatnot so you may not have taken much notice of them. But whatever…

    • Draco T Bastard 11.6

      I’ve been saying that the biggest concerns in the world ATM are the corporations and the people who run them as they now have control over us and our governments.

      We cannot afford the rich.

  12. R.P Mcmurphy 12

    TV3 am show is becoming nastier and nastier as dunnycan garner and merkin richadson drop any pretence of civility and objectivity as they push their right wing agenda to dumb down and infantilise the whole of New Zealand
    society.

  13. Reality 13

    Does free speech mean someone has the right to be rude, obnoxious, cruel, or twist facts about others who may not be in a position to respond because of their family, their job, or health, or who have no wish to become embroiled in a nasty slanging match?

    What are the boundaries and responsibilities, or are there none?

    Someone like Don Brash has a nationwide platform and an eager media to spout his views. Many people subjected to his views do not have that platform.

    • Puckish Rogue 13.1

      Yes, as long as what he’s saying doesn’t break any of NZs laws.

      • marty mars 13.1.1

        Yep the law written by people like him… and so the merry go round goes round.

        There is a special type of bigot who use velvet tones and softened words to hide their malignant content – b.rash is one and there are a few others on this site eh puckwit. But the law is unbreached yay we are safe again!!!

    • Bewildered 13.2

      You don’t have a right not to be offended or your feelings hurt

    • Grantoc 13.3

      If you object to what someone is saying you can make a complaint to the human rights commission. There is also defamation law – so you can sue someone.

      If your case is good enough you can generally rally your supporters to help with legal costs.

      These legal frameworks are robust enough to deal with any issues of supposed ‘hate speech’.

      • Reality 13.3.1

        The legal costs would be enough to put off many people pursuing a case so the “free speech” proponent can carry on with their jaundiced views, untouched.

        The case of a young Maori woman working in a Nelson supermarket comes to mind. Out of the blue a customer had a nasty rant about her being Maori so would never get anywhere in life. I was pleased to see the young woman’s supervisor told the customer to leave and not come back.

        It is just not on, in the name of free speech, that someone can verbally attack someone they don’t even know. And why should that young woman have to put up with such bile.

        • Grantoc 13.3.1.1

          I agree with you Reality. Your example clearly crosses the line between free speech and hate speech.

          Based on what you have said, the young Maori woman has a case to put in front of the human rights commission. I’d encourage her to do so. (This shouldn’t be costly).

          • Draco T Bastard 13.3.1.1.1

            (This shouldn’t be costly).

            It shouldn’t cost anything – our justice system should ensure that all such cases are heard without the complainant having to front up with the cash for lawyers.

            When it doesn’t, as ours doesn’t, then the justice system is only for those who can afford it and justice is denied to those who need it.

  14. Robert Guyton 14

    “Does free speech mean someone has the right to be rude, obnoxious, cruel, or twist facts about others who may not be in a position to respond because of their family, their job, or health, or who have no wish to become embroiled in a nasty slanging match?”
    Yep.
    John Key exploited that right throughout his time as National Party leader.

    • Tricledrown 14.1

      Robert while he allowed Dirty Politics.
      He did smack down Don Bash over his antiquated Maori Bashing saying in John Keys words “there is no place in NZ for these outdated antiquated ideas NZ has moved on.”

  15. Dennis Frank 15

    Evil, like racism, usually lies in the eye of the beholder. Late in 1999 the fourth largest newspaper in the US (NY Post) held a poll to see who their readers thought were the most evil people in history, and 19,184 of them voted. Hitler won.

    Second came Bill Clinton. Stalin was third, then Pol Pot.

    Fifth was the Nazi who conducted medical experiments on live jews, Dr Josef Mengele. Sixth was Hilary Clinton.

    Saddam Hussein, Adolf Eichmann, Charles Manson and Idi Amin completed the top ten. Genghis Khan came in at 11th, then serial killer who ate his victims, Jeffrey Dahmer. Vlad the Impaler made it to #20, Jack the Ripper #25.

    • Bearded Git 15.1

      Trevor Chappell was nowhere in this list?

      • Dennis Frank 15.1.1

        Ah, Trev. No, I guess the yanks were too busy getting high back then & didn’t notice. I wondered why he didn’t just tell the media at the time “Hey, our ancestors were convicts so breaking rules is in the genes, right? Get over it. Sportsmanship?? Are you kidding???”

    • Tricledrown 15.2

      Dennis Frank no doubt its a Murdoch publication so Goebels would have attained sainthood.

      • Dennis Frank 15.2.1

        I was intrigued when I read a biography of him to discover that he’d been a supporter of socialism as a young adult. It’s what he had in common with David Lange, plus they both refused knighthoods due to feeling strongly that the dross from empire ought to be discarded.

        Same with William Pember Reeves: he was offered one twice, refused twice. He transformed Aotearoa with radical industrial relations policy an entire generation before Labour. Took me most of my life to get around to reading Land of the Long White Cloud but man, what a book!!

        “Murdoch studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Worcester College, Oxford in England, where he supported the Labour Party, stood for Secretary of the Labour Club”. [from his wiki]

  16. Morrissey 16

    The MeToo# divas did not even mention the Palestinian Rosa Parks when they strutted at the Academy Awards.

    “All Palestinians have courage. It’s different from one person to another. But I grew up in a family where I got used to seeing prisoners, the injured and martyrs.” – Ahed Tamimi

    https://www.democracynow.org/2018/8/6/meet_ahed_tamimi_17_year_old

  17. Marcus Morris 17

    Hey everyone has missed the point I was trying to make. It was his comment re the last government that intrigued me the most. I have no time for Brash, particularly having recently read “The Hollow Men” but thought that his critique of the Key years was most apt. I agree with Jacinda though that banning him from the University was a gross over reaction. Importing “hate preachers” is one thing but Don Brash is a New Zealander and most followers of local politics know exactly where he stands.

    Another important piece in today’ s Herald was Professor Peter Davis’ article entitled “Ageing “Ponzi” scheme needs to change fast”. The super situation and the long term effect of Muldoon’s blunder must be kept constantly on the public’s radar. Many of the SSS (Smug Self Satisfied) 45% that is the majority of National’s core support, will not be affected by the issue (they regard the fortnightly payment as pin money) but for the rest of us, especially our children and grandchildren the question is of the utmost importance.

  18. bwaghorn 19

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12103182

    How much of nz businesses lack of confidence is just petulance at not having their lapdog nats in government?

    • Puckish Rogue 19.1

      How much of it is due to the increased powers of the unions especially considering the increase in strikes and threats of strikes as is happening right now

      How much of it is due to a rollback of some 90 day employment laws and the worry if that will be increased or just dropped completely?

      How much of it is due to the lack of warning and consultation over the oil and gas exploration halt?

      How much of it is due to employers potentially paying out domestic abuse leave?

    • greywarshark 19.2

      Petulance: Delicate petals which get easily bruised by strong winds,

    • Naki man 19.3

      “How much of nz businesses lack of confidence is just petulance at not having their lapdog nats in government?”

      I see the looney Greens are focused on the important issues.

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/green-co-leader-marama-davidson-says-new-zealand-must-reclaim-the-c-word.html

    • Gosman 19.4

      Regardless of what caused it you ignore it at your peril.

      • AB 19.4.1

        Possibly right.
        When business leaders/owners lose confidence, democratically elected governments are in peril.
        When anybody else (beneficiaries, bus-drivers, one-legged dog-walkers, you name it) loses confidence, governments aren’t in peril.
        Strange that – looks like democracies can’t really work well when there is huge inequality of power amongst the population. Maybe time to do something about that then.

        • Draco T Bastard 19.4.1.1

          Strange that – looks like democracies can’t really work well when there is huge inequality of power amongst the population. Maybe time to do something about that then.

          Yep – time to get rid of the capitalists. They’re a clear and present danger to our democracy.

      • bwaghorn 19.4.2

        The problem I have is the nats are talking confidence down . As we know it becomes self fulfilling among money once they believe it .
        I rekons that the nats would happily see nz fail just to get in power.

  19. Jenny 20

    All the talk of allowing free speech for fascists…..

    When one of the primary aims of fascists is suppression of free speech. (For everyone, but themselves.)

    dozens of stranded journalists fear for their fates
    Ammar Homou – Syria Direct, August 7, 2018

    Currently, the SJA is working to secure safe refuge for the trapped journalists in the southwest while putting pressure on the international community to secure their evacuation.

    Nonetheless, Ibrahim’s fears grow with the passing of time.

    “I worry that I could be arrested, that I could be killed or that I could disappear in prison like thousands of other Syrians,” Ibrahim tells Syria Direct. “I fear they could go after my family to pressure them to turn me in.”

    “If we don’t get evacuated,” Ibrahim warns, “the ugliest of crimes will be committed against us.”

    Neonazis attack London left-wing bookshop
    Peter Lazenby – Dear Kitty, August 5, 2018

    “Luckily, no-one was hurt this time, but this is a sinister development that indicates the growing confidence of the far right, who feel they can attack a bookshop in central London in broad daylight.

    “Attacking a bookshop also exposes their claims to be defenders of free speech as hollow.”

    Don’t support fascism. (It really shouldn’t have to be said)

  20. OnceWasTim 21

    For Wellingtonians:
    Apparently there’ll be a review of the bugger’s muddle that is now our public transport ‘network’.
    Let’s hope it’s not driven by those that planned the new network and its ‘big bang’ implementation or the outcome will likely be that we’ll be lining up in one queue to get a number from a machine that gives us a place in another queue at the bus stop.
    And if they’re really really clever, they’ll divide those queues into the registration number on the bus (for the purposes of efficiency and effectiveness).

    Having once worked with Darran Ponter, I’m surprised at how he has so easily become captured by bullshit artists – no doubt fresh back from an overseas fact finding mission.

    Still, the higher you rise, the harder you fall

    • OnceWasTim 21.1

      I’m a little fire engine, Flick is my name
      They won’t let me put out fires
      But I do it just the same…..

      Ooooh ahhhh oooooh aaaaaaah
      there’s a fire in the stationhouse! etc. etc. (Another fine mess you’ve gotten me into Ollie!)

      (/Surprise surprise)
      /fuckwittery at its most grand

    • veutoviper 21.2

      Any links etc for this info OWT?

      I was just about to do an update to a group of “concerned citizens” in my area who I am representing re changes etc to our bus services in discussions with Metlink etc, so would like to know more before doing so. Must say that I have had reasonably good productive discourse with Metlink on this but I am taking a facilitator rather than an aggressive approach. Our situation is one that is a little less urgent and requires a lot of diplomacy/nergotiations with other community citizens rather than the bus operators per se compared to some of the more urgent problems being faced by workers, students etc needing to get to work, classes etc. so need to take a cooperative and slower approach to reach a solution that meets most peoples’ needs etc.

      Darran Ponter is actually on my list of people outside Metlink to approach so any more info about him etc also welcome.

      • OnceWasTim 21.2.1

        Only as a former public servant in a government Ministry when he was in charge of a group of policy analysts.

        RNZ news has reported that the GWRC has admitted there are problems.
        Unfortunately it seems what they’re proposing will just amount to tinkering (changes to route 18 for example).
        In some cases, people are having to catch 3 buses where they previously caught 1

        If they wanted a quick solution, it’d probably be to simply revert to the old route system, then make gradual improvements – that won’t happen because it’s be an admission of compete failure.

        I’m picking that unless something radical is done soon Darran won’t be back after the next election, and he won’t be wanting to put this farce on his CV when he goes job hunting. And in many ways, that’s a bit of a shame

  21. Ad 22

    What did that guy Molyneaux say to us about “Welcome to sharia law” or something?

    So, Canada’s Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Chrystia Freeland said “Canada is gravely concerned about additional arrests of civil society and women’s activists in Saudi Arabia including Samar Badawi.” She urged the Saudi government to “immediately release them.”

    Saudi Arabia then denounced the tweets as “blatant interference in the country’s domestic affairs,” as well as a “major, unacceptable affront to the kingdom’s laws and judicial process.” The Saudi government has said that it will cut scholarships for thousands of its students to study in Canada. They have also made the Saudia airline suspend flights to Toronto in five days.

    Bahrain. the Arab Emirates, and others back the Saudi government.

    Now, I don’t need to cite The Handmaid’s Tale to you all on what actual Sharia Law looks and feels like. If she didn’t have diplomatic immunity she would be in a Saudi prison.

    Ambassador Freeland (great name by the way!) simply stands by what she has said. “We will always speak up for human rights and women’s rights.”

    We would gain something of our moral centre back as a country if we started tying human rights to trade with a sharia law country like Saudi Arabia.

    We don’t have to like the people giving us unpalatable messages, but Canada is pointing the way here. It took courage.

    • Draco T Bastard 22.1

      We would gain something of our moral centre back as a country if we started tying human rights to trade with a sharia law country like Saudi Arabia.

      Why focus only ob Sharia Law?

      Oh, wait…

      If we actually focussed on human rights we’d soon stop trading with our top export nations.

      • Ad 22.1.1

        We’d certainly have fewer of them.

        • Draco T Bastard 22.1.1.1

          And there you have the reason why we don’t restrict trade to nations that only fully support human rights.

          Profit is more important to government.

          • Dennis Frank 22.1.1.1.1

            And here you have made a very important moral point. Our standard of living is dependent on trade, which depends on supporting evil behaviour by foreign governments. Is supporting evil behaviour a good idea? No.

  22. adam 23

    Qanon is beyond very strange. Money mabey?

  23. greywarshark 24

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018657123/new-disability-support-rules-baffle-lawyer
    New Zealand health
    42 minutes ago 8 Aug 2018
    Ministry’s new disability guidelines baffle family lawyer
    A lawyer fighting on behalf of families over the disabled support services says the Ministry of Health policy in the area borders on cruel.

    (Rosemary has been saying this for a while)

    By the way has anyone had trouble with pressreader. I went to it and my screen locked up as a message that I had to accept came up. I wanted out but no cross to clear it, and couldn’t close down site or move to another site. Had to turn off computer.l Pathetic program design.

  24. greywarshark 25

    If wanting to email the site what is the address. Nothing I have tried is recognised?
    Or don’t you have it now – does it all have to be twitter and facebook ?

  25. marty mars 26

    Oh dear even Tracey is scathing of crasher Collins.

    “Either Collins believed in the vast left wing conspiracy to normalise child rape – which is scary. Or she didn’t believe it but tweeted it anyway because she knew some of the people who read her tweets would have no problem believing it was true.”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106100009/how-far-down-this-slippery-slope-will-judith-collins-lead-national

  26. greywarshark 27

    Greasy irrigation!
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/106098339/hurunui-irrigation-company-bullish-but-farmers-fall-short-on-the-money

    Still slipping on, taking up water that will be in short supply and allocated on generous terms over … years encouraging farmers to over-extend themselves and cry poor.l

    But Chris Pile, chief executive of the company driving the proposed $200 million scheme is determined it “must and will continue”.
    (Unfortunate name. I smell money for a successful CEO.)

  27. greywarshark 28

    Unforeseen consequences? Grenade shaped table lighters, fake guns, just toys nothing to worry about – stop fussing. blah blah. Rubbish unworthy of spending export $ on and now bothersome rubbish that are scaring people and involving police bomb squads with a large increase in callouts.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106078499/inactive-grenades-used-as-paperweights-contribute-to-nzdf-bomb-squad-callouts-jump

  28. greywarshark 29

    Mountain rescue cost six figures and hundreds of volunteer hours
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106050614/mountain-rescue-cost-six-figures-and-hundreds-of-volunteer-hours

    This guy has been rescued before, and seems to have gone mountain climbing just about every year. So the rescue is just part of the exciting holiday risks ultimately borne by us. Let us have more money spent on our parents and children to help them get a good start in life if we care about people so much. It is a class matter really, the needy families are lower class and enterprising mountain climbers are far up the ladder. Sick.

    One thing to do is to bill them for the cost of it all, plus honorarium for the volunteers and arrest and jail them if they come back and the bill is unpaid. her pay up quickly and fully or deport them, with refusal to enter again. Grow a pair government. People with student loans unpaid are treated harshly so why shouldn’t we put a stopper on these drifters who are too spiritual to worry about the trouble and cost their spending time out in nature, communing, puts other people to.

  29. Draco T Bastard 30

    This is a rather informative, but short, video on why we can’t make old stuff from the original designs:

  30. AsleepWhileWalking 31

    Daily review isn’t loading for.me

  31. Jenny 32

    If this was a scene in the movie ‘The Day After Tomorrow’ it would have ended up on the cutting room floor for being to far fetched.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hail-zoo-colorado_us_5b69a10ae4b0de86f4a552d3

  32. eco maori 33

    Good morning The Am Show Eco says it’s good that our Kiwi fire fighters can help America and Canada fight those massive fires ka pai people be careful.
    Condolences to the people who have lost love ones and property.
    Social issues poverty bulling racial issues its not hard to see that’s these issues will affect all Mokopunas mental health this health problem we have will affect wealthy and poor the same as different groups clash its good we are looking at fixing this big problem. Unlike the bench warmers who’s action’s just multiplied this big problem Eco seen this.
    Duncan that young Asian boy was intelligent and well spoken on the issues of 16/17 year old forced marriage.
    With cat’s they are a gift from Papatuanuku I don’t think they have to be eliminated
    just controlled . Cat’s help people who are alone in our society they give there care’s some thing to love and care they give them a reason to get up in the morning pet;s are good for some people’s mental health in this age of individualism this individualism has to change we are all on Papatuanuku together.
    Ka kite ano P.S I try to be fair I’m a Gary McCormick fan he come’s from te tai rawhiti so there is a bit of favoritism

  33. eco maori 34

    Here you go I read body langue well and Eco Maori can see what motivates people actions one thing in this link below is this.
    Ka kite ano

    Tiaki-Turi joins the interview by phone. She acts as Zhou Black’s spiritual adviser or matakite – someone considered to possess a supernatural ability to see visions of the future.

    Zhou Black is asked why an academic appears on her child-sex ring list.

    “He’s a very wealthy man … He knew Awa through that time. I don’t know how long,” she says.

    No victim had identified the academic.

    “Got anything to add, sis?” Zhou Black asks Tiaki-Turi.

    “Um, it’s just a connection that he has with a lot of the people associated to Awa,” Tiaki-Turi offers.

    “He’s more a person of interest,” Zhou Black adds.

    “He was my Facebook friend up until three days ago and then he has blocked me.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106039693/estranged-wifes-explosive-childsex-claims-against-awanui-black-and-friends-questioned P.S I stand by my word’s these women are being played I don’t know enough about the treaty claims of Tauranga to make comment on that issue . But I do know that people are trying to undo my Mahi.

  34. eco maori 35

    The Cafe the Roy Orbison look alike is a awesome singer Eco enjoys Roy’s music
    Ka kite ano

  35. eco maori 36

    To all you moaning neo liberal capitalist trolls New Zealand has spent more on AID to other country’s than they have spent on treaty claims now Eco knows that the poor tangata around the World need help and I back that AID but stop kicking ——in tangata whenua face please about te mone we got from treaty settlement’s enough said only bad—–will come from the word’s I want to say .
    Ka kite ano

    https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/aid-and-development/our-approach-to-aid/where-our-funding-goes/

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106097912/chinas-pacific-aid-dominance-is-overstated–but-winston-peters-disagrees P.S Stop kicking —– in China face to

  36. Eco Maori 37

    You know what the other big picture is New Zealand spent more putting tangata whenua in jail much more than the mone spent on treaty settlement no link but that’s a fact

  37. Eco Maori 38

    One can not judge the Opinion of Atoearoa just by a poll that can be targeted by national trolls to minupulate the results it won’t take many people to change the polls results.
    Good Kiwi understand that Maori were ripped of their whenua and its 10 x harder for Maori to get a better life than any other culture in Atoearoa the troll.s love those easy to minupulate polls on TV. Look at these bone head sandflys stuffing up my life and my offspring. It they had anything more that contracted lies they would put ECO MAORI in the hinaki. Ka kite ano discrimination at its best

  38. eco maori 39

    You may be wondering how the phone poll can be hacked it’s easy if you got mone gone managed to raise $90k in 2 days to try and fight in court for his m8 from you no were so for the neo liberal capitalist mone is not a problem .
    There is will well the NLcapitalist have no morels so cheating is like changing undies to these people so they have the will to cheat and manipulate the reality of good Kiwi’s using these poll’s .
    How well you have 50 people with 10 sims each and there you go 500 votes for the NLcapitalist trolls cost about $600.00 if the poll does not have a limit of 1 call per number that cost will be just $6.00 . Eco Maori knows that any thing can be manipulated its just takes no morels to lie mone and effort . I know look at what the sandflys are doing to Eco Maori Ka kite ano P.S tryed to find out how this poll is conducted nothing on the net so its phone or Tx I can’t be stuffed with some poles because all data can be changed to suit the goals of the person with the most mone

  39. eco maori 40

    gone=don brash

  40. eco maori 41

    Mana Wahine Ka pai American Wahine Eco Maori tautoko/supports all Ladies who are going to get into roles to lead us to a humane prosperous future .
    I know that a lot of ladies are more intelligent than man definitely more humane the Papatuanuku is your Oyster as the old saying goes you need to make sure the mokopunas have a bright prosperous future and men can not be trusted to do this on there own . Ka kite ano P.S I still respect men as I am one but we need te Wahine to guide the men down the correct path link below men will still be part of leadership ladies will gide men to the correct path.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45109836

  41. eco maori 42

    Good evening Newshub Eco Maori was upset today I have been trying to get my wahine mokopuna health issues sorted out for two weeks she spent 2 nites in Rotorua hospital so in all 4 hospital appointments waiting 5 to 6 hours for each visit 3 doctor’s appointments I got someone to take her to Ranolf medical center on Monday get a call today saying she had a urine infection to come and get antibiotics I was happy she has finally be diagnosed I am upset that the sandfly were hiding around the corner at the hosptial telling the doctors lies getting the doctors to ask my moko questions that had nothing to do with her ailment and getting them to pregnecy test my 11 year old mokopuna with out telling us instead of testing her sample for signs of a infection the doctor at lakes care said there were signs of a mild infection and sent us to the hosptial to get her scaned this did not happen. I pointed this out to the doctor at the hospital he just dismissed my inquire I have been nursing my mokopuna for 2 weeks she has been in pain for 3 1/2 weeks I am looking after her because everyone else is working so its understandable that I’m upset . The sandflys have told the doctors you are not liable .They cannot sue because of the New Zealand Laws the down side to Accident Compensation corporation a Kiwi can not sue the health department for miss conduct my moko could have lost a kidney and now I am waiting to get her kidneys scanned I thought Rotorua hosptial would do it today they gave her a weeks wait WTF.
    I can not sue the health system but I am gathering everdince to sue others .???????????
    Well I got that off my chest those fire tornadoes are mean those have not been seen much at all may be 2 times I have seen documents of this phenomenon That’s Human Caused Global warrming trump.
    The bereavement leave for miss carage of a baby is backed by Eco one of my offspring went through that its Quite Papatuanuku shattering it took awhile for them to get over that.
    Yes Eco always reads te animals cows are good Guard dogs lol well I read everything quite well just my spelling is bad.
    It was a beautiful day to day Ingrid Ka kite ano

  42. eco maori 43

    Good evening Newshub Eco Maori was upset today I have been trying to get my wahine mokopuna health issues sorted out for two weeks she spent 2 nites in Rotorua hospital so in all 4 hospital appointments waiting 5 to 6 hours for each visit 3 doctor’s appointments I got someone to take her to Ranolf medical center on Monday get a call today saying she had a urine infection to come and get antibiotics I was happy she has finally be diagnosed I am upset that the sandfly were hiding around the corner at the hosptial telling the doctors lies getting the doctors to ask my moko questions that had nothing to do with her ailment and getting them to pregnecy test my 11 year old mokopuna with out telling us instead of testing her sample for signs of a infection the doctor at lakes care said there were signs of a mild infection and sent us to the hosptial to get her scaned this did not happen. I pointed this out to the doctor at the hospital he just dismissed my inquire I have been nursing my mokopuna for 2 weeks she has been in pain for 3 1/2 weeks I am looking after her because everyone else is working so its understandable that I’m upset . The sandflys have told the doctors you are not liable .They cannot sue because of the New Zealand Laws the down side to Accident Compensation corporation a Kiwi can not sue the health department for miss conduct my moko could have lost a kidney and now I am waiting to get her kidneys scanned I thought Rotorua hosptial would do it today they gave her a weeks wait WTF.
    I can not sue the health system but I am gathering everdince to sue others .???????????
    Well I got that off my chest those fire tornadoes are mean those have not been seen much at all may be 2 times I have seen documents of this phenomenon That’s Human Caused Global warrming trump.
    The bereavement leave for miss carage of a baby is backed by Eco one of my offspring went through that its Quite Papatuanuku shattering it took awhile for them to get over that.
    Yes Eco always reads te animals cows are good Guard dogs lol well I read everything quite well just my spelling is bad.
    It was a beautiful day to day Ingrid Ka kite ano

  43. eco maori 44

    The Crowd Goes Wild Mulls and Makere I like to look after tangata that I connect with.
    I had a sore face for half a hour last night . We all think our kids get there best traits from us but what I know the brain’s are genitally linked to Wahine so I tell my offspring that they get there intelligence from there mum I read that in some science mag.
    Keep up the good work Mahi Drysdale you will be fine.
    I see Posha Woodman got into the Papatuanuku Sports Wahine of the year with the Williams sisters Mana Wahine
    All the best to Jacko in his shot put goals he is a good role model for the mokopunas never give up thats the attitude.
    Ka kite ano

  44. eco maori 45

    The sandflys are stuffing with my computa once again
    Why didn’t shonky kick the rugby ball through the rugby goal post hitting a golf ball through rugby goal post is easy as cheating once again shonky

  45. eco maori 46

    Some people don’t know when they other’s are using there emotion’s to play them they don’t expect it and trust others to much .
    They don’t beleve Eco maori that being to radical is bad for there cause wake up you are a wahine maori leader Ka kite ano P.S or do you have the same advisor that coned another wahine maori leader to splash mud in her own face Eco thinks the possibility and coincident are quite high

  46. eco maori 47

    To The Labour Party Do onto those as they do onto YOU there are 2 ways to see this Golden Rule the one Eco is high lighting is national are digging scraping around for any dirt on the ruling Labour Green New Zealand First Government and trowing it in your face so Eco would look for dirt on national and give it back to them this move will even up the score keep them busy fighting the fire it won’t be hard to find mud on them Eco say’s
    Ka kite ano

  47. eco maori 48

    He used his free speech to try to obliterate Māori out of New Zealand society. If you don’t believe me, read the speech for yourself. ka kite ano

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106108505/when-a-person-with-extreme-views-defends-free-speech-someone-gets-hurt

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