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Open mike 08/09/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, September 8th, 2019 - 128 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

128 comments on “Open mike 08/09/2019 ”

  1. vto 1

    How can people who are so adamant that "bloody Labour" and useless "Jacinta who is mucking everything up" and yet don't know the difference between the EU and the Commowealth when the next discussion point is Brexit be allowed to have a vote?

    One just has to hope that these ignorants are spread evenly across the political spectrum… so their influence is nil….

    • Barfly 1.1

      Frankly I think that talk back radio is a great weapon of the right –

      These sort of lies and drivel are the harvest of the echo chamber known as talk back radio.

      • Dukeofurl 1.1.1

        Just as the National party has the 'Cabinet Club' ,

        Im sure they have a 'Talk Back Club…on call to flood the phone lines.

      • sumsuch 1.1.2

        Talkback suits the Right better with their adamant rather than us with our buts and why-fors. Whatever silly-arse prejudice you have mate it's right. Only the hosts being brought up in social-democracy holds it back.

      • patricia bremner 1.1.3

        Yes Barfly. That is true here in Australia as well. Mike Hoskins is another Alan Jones type.

    • joe90 1.2

      I've been following the Brexit shenanigans and ensuing parliamentary farce on a couple of UK stations, LBC and BBC 5 Live. The differences between them and our so-called news radio is like night and day. Ignoring a couple of the more hoskinesque hosts , the nuanced and informative analysis and commentary from hosts, commentators and expert guests is first rate. And they must have rather good vetting systems to weed out the ranting, partisan, single-issue loons because most of their talk-back callers come across as reasonable, well informed, and worthwhile the time spent listening.

    • cleangreen 1.3

      VTO – They used to call it 'brainwashing'.keep saying it so many times until a lie becomes the truth.

      • patricia bremner 1.3.1

        Propaganda… Repeat ad nauseam.

        Ignore facts and science, just repeat repeat, until it is imprinted.

        A tactic as old as politics, and just remember "Who pays the Piper to play the song on repeat?"

        The answer is, "Follow the big money"

    • It was a joke up until now?

      • Buster12 2.1.1

        The way they have handled it has been a joke yes.

        • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.1

          The way who have handled it? The Labour Party? In what sense was their handling of it a joke? Neither of us has significant knowledge of how it was handled, so ignorance-based reckons about the quality of the handling could themselves only take the form of jokes, surely?

          As an abstract hypothetical, though: when allegations of workplace harrassment and bullying are made against an individual and an investigation finds that the allegations are unsupported, ie it comes down to he says/she says, how would you handle those allegations in a way that treated all parties fairly, respected their privacy, achieved a result satisfactory to all parties and also couldn't be used as propaganda against you by your enemies? Do take your time.

          • Dukeofurl 2.1.1.1.1

            Vance mentions in passing Parliaments inquiry into Bullying etc?

            The Journalists have never revisited the shock conclusion that some Journalists around parliament are part of the problem

            "A significant number of respondents – not all of them Members – commented on what they perceived as inappropriate behaviour by members of the Press Gallery or media more generally."

            https://www.parliament.nz/media/5739/independent-external-review-into-bullying-and-harassment-in-the-new-zealand-parliamentary-workplace-final-report.pdf

            and a quote:
            ““Gallery behaviour is unacceptable… they come in there perfectly nice people and then adopt this persona of the classic bully. You can watch it happen.”

            Code of Omerta means people like Vance wont touch that aspect

          • Shadrach 2.1.1.1.2

            "In what sense was their handling of it a joke?"

            "Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Labour Party President Nigel Haworth have delivered an apologetic press conference, admitting major failings by the party. Ms Ardern said the burden of care and responsibility for those allegedly sexually assualted at a summer camp should not have been left to members of Young Labour. "We handled this very, very badly as a party," Ms Ardern said."

            "The party is also facing criticism for the presence of alcohol at the event. Young people attended the event with parental consent, but on Wednesday afternoon, Ms Ardern was unable to say whether those consent forms mentioned alcohol. Labour MP Liz Craig was at the event that night. On Wednesday afternoon, she deleted a photo from her Facebook page which showed her seated at a table with a group of young adults who were drinking alcohol."

            https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/03/labour-accused-of-dropping-the-ball-on-young-labour-sexual-assault-claims.html

            "The Prime Minister, parents of the victims, and police were not notified about alleged sexual misconduct at a Young Labour summer camp last month."

            https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/03/labour-didn-t-tell-police-parents-or-pm-about-sexual-assault-claims.html

            There's more, but that's enough. I don't like labelling Labour's handling of this 'a joke'; it rather minimises the damage. Incompetent, inept, useless…these are far better descriptors.

        • Jimmy 2.1.1.2

          Nigel Haworth has not done Jacinda any favours the way he has handled it. If true that he banned complainants from buildings, why was the accused not banned or stood down why investigation going on? Andrea Vance and Alison Mau seem to have really turned on Labour this weekend.

          • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.2.1

            As an abstract hypothetical: when allegations of workplace harrassment and bullying are made against an individual and an investigation finds that the allegations are unsupported, ie it comes down to he says/she says, how would you handle those allegations in a way that treated all parties fairly, respected their privacy, achieved a result satisfactory to all parties and also couldn't be used as propaganda against you by your enemies? Do take your time.

            • Jimmy 2.1.1.2.1.1

              The accused should have been stood down while investigation underway, not just the accusers being banned from the building. I think this may cost Nigel Haworth his job. The last one cost Andrew Kirton his job.

              • The Spinoff piece under discussion in today's thread suggests there was no investigation, or at least nothing you could reasonably call an investigation. Like you, I don't see how Kirton could keep his job and still expect anyone to vote Labour – same with the others involved.

      • Gabby 2.1.2

        Picking on a turn of phrase psycho?

    • Rapunzel 2.2

      I had to reread the story carefully as from the "heading" it seemed as though the story was in regard to the recent case due to be sentenced later in the year – the word "young" gave, to me, every impression of that. What it is referring to is another completely separate matter that has an element of "employment" attached to it and no charges, as yet, which has a bearing that needs to be sorted but the inference unless studied and read carefully implies something else.

      • Anne 2.2.1

        Thanks for the clarification Rapaunzel. It wasn't at all clear from that article what case was being referred to:

        He [Mallard] said: "The first point that I want to make is that I have repeatedly, through [Parliamentary Service's] general manager [Rafael Gonzalez-Montero], the relevant office and people who have raised the matter with me that I think either a Police complaint (if an offence is alleged to have occurred) or a complaint relating to employment if people feel unsafe, should be made.

        The seven complainants have still not laid any complaints with either the police or Parliamentary Services.

        I'm not suggesting nothing happened, but I’m starting to smell a big rat over this case.

        • Rapunzel 2.2.1.1

          🙂 It didn;t help that the paper was drenched but the heading led me, and I guess others, up the garden path until I re-read it. No one is suggesting anything did not happen but there are cases that were supposedly being looked at that the public had heard no more of within the National Party that were not disimmilar.

          Why can't NZ media stick to the facts and the fact is as you say there are no charges and employment matters have to be handled very carefully for all involved. Allowing media to be judge and jury of what happened, how it "should be handled" and where the "blame" lies is unacceptable. This sort of conjecture and getting to the heart of who, how many people and exactly what needs to be done does nothing to educate on and improve workplace relationships.

          • Anne 2.2.1.1.1

            ... there are cases that were supposedly being looked at that the public had heard no more of within the National Party that were not disimilar.

            There was a serious case earlier this year involving a Young Nat (male) and a Young Nat event. It was reported through the MSM and then… nothing. It was suspected at the time the complainant was 'bought off'.

              • Anne

                Simon Bridges said:

                "In line with our health and safety policies, we acted quickly to offer any support and advice to the person who raised the issue, and this information was passed on to the alleged victim.

                "As this is now a matter for the police, we can't comment any further."

                And that, as far as I know, was the last we heard of the matter so I am assuming the complainant withdrew her complaint. Did she do it of her own accord or was she coerced? Did any journos bother to check out what happened? The answer appears to be… no.

                It would seem there's a big difference how these cases get reported depending on which party the complainant/complainants belong to eh?

              • Jimmy

                If any thing serious happened, surely, at least one complainant must report it to the police (or Parliamentary services?).

                The Nat one was reported to police.

                • Dukeofurl

                  Not parliamentary services for that one, as it was in Auckland bar and a apartment. No Parliamentary Services employees from the outline of the event

        • Incognito 2.2.1.2

          Anne, the reason your comments are held in in Auto-Moderation is a minor typo in your user name, which I have corrected a number of times now. The system ‘thinks’ that you’re a new user and this needs to be manually approved.

    • Dukeofurl 2.3

      That was from about 3 weeks ago , Bennett went full out on it, it was covered by the media as she arranged.

      Now Vance who moved out of the Press gallery into management has a slow Sunday scandal day hole to fill ? . Has she been chatting to Bennett who wanted to recycle old news

      Their new weekly columnist , the taxpayer funded opinion piece by Seymours staffer seems to disappeared

      • Rapunzel 2.3.1

        Well Stuff can get stuf't on a Sunday I'm cancelling my paper and will say exactly why, the same should apply to talkback advertisers such as "magic" radio with its Too Cheap Cars donations. After the $400+k fine for cheating clients only "trmagic's" terminally dim listeners would be an option as clientele anyway.

  2. joe90 3

    Marvelous!

    After the Revolutionary War, many of the white people who were loyal to Britain moved to the Bahamas, which was largely empty. A lot of those people brought their enslaved Africans with them.

    But harsh conditions made many of the white people leave. Then, in 1807, Britain abolished the slave trade. Many of those freed Africans who were liberated on the open seas went to the Bahamas as free people.

    When the US basically bought Florida from Spain, thousands of enslaved Africans and Black Seminoles said “fuck this” and escaped to the Bahamas.

    So many ran to freedom that the US government had to build a lighthouse in Cape Florida in 1825.

    In 1834, Britain freed all the slaves in its territories and shit really got crazy.

    […]

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1170202643672776704.html

  3. SPC 4

    Amber Rudd has resigned from the BJ Cabinet and the Tory whip.

    1. BJ is only pretending to seek a deal.
    2. the removal of the 21 MP’s.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49623737

    • Andre 4.1

      So there are significant numbers of Tory MPs with the integrity and spine prepared to stand up to Boorish and say what they think, in full knowledge the likely price is the end of their political career. That really highlights what a bunch of jellyfish the Repugs are in their craven capitulation to Kim Jong Orange.

      • Macro 4.1.1

        That really highlights what a bunch of jellyfish the Repugs are in their craven capitulation to Kim Jong Orange.

        Quoted for Truth

  4. joe90 5

    Turns out the bludger is stupid, too.

    A teacher on an individual contract has complained to the Human Rights Commission about payments union members will get after the settling of a protracted pay wrangle.

    And he claims non-union teachers have been kept in the dark that they can negotiate their own employment agreements.

    Hastings Boys' High head of music Justin Lindsay claims that the Ministry of Education has discriminated on the basis of political opinion in their new Secondary Teachers Collective Agreement (STCA) 2019-2022.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12265580&ref=clavis

    • millsy 5.1

      I googled him. Looks like he took care to sanitise his online foot print before speaking out. The only thing he shows is that he was employed in the ESOL and tech sector in Japan for a number of years,

  5. Rapunzel 6

    "And he claims non-union teachers have been kept in the dark "? Really? And he also claims to be a teacher? I have seen that name before with similar "complaints" but no mention of how many people he represents. How is it that one individual's statement is passed by media as being either a wide-spread issue or movement?

    • Dukeofurl 6.1

      He would have signed this – which is a template

      https://www.education.govt.nz/assets/Documents/School/Individual-Employment-Agreements/Secondary-Teachers-IEA-2019.pdf

      perhaps he should appoint /pay for his own advocate to get better terms than the Union members.

      Funny these sort of stories dont sit for long in the NZME 'pending publishing' queue.

      • Rapunzel 6.1.1

        Which is why NZ seriously needs some sort of public service information outlet, either a whole channel or something. While I suppose that was clear to me right from the messing with contract thing in the 1990s, more towards the end of that period I gather their are people who don't appear to "know" these things – he does is, spreading misinformation is his intent.

        There are lots of basic things beginning with how to register and vote, what "free" medical options families might have, how not to pay insurance unless you know you have met criteria and are fully covered for what you think you've paid for, what are your employment "rights" and obligations are – so as not to jeopardize your employment, along with reliable borrowing or budgeting advice etc. The information is there but it needs to be more readily available and visible and repeated till it sinks in. During the 2014 election I heard from several young people that their employers or other told them "if you don't vote this way you will have no job". They believed it and spread that idea around. If basic information about "rights' was more common and normalised people might start thinking for themselves and/or seeking out the facts when they need them.

        • OnceWasTim 6.1.1.1

          There's a Parliament TV channel that has a lot of downtime – even given repeats of QT etc. (and that's just for starters). It could actually be used for educational purposes at various times – providing 'civics'/'social studies', the citizens' rights when dealing with government agencies, the Treaty, BOR et al

          • Rapunzel 6.1.1.1.1

            No end of things – took my grandson to the medical centre last holidays and they had a number of items running, how many other groups have items of interest, probably local councils and voluntary groups.

            Besides that what groups are active in an area may be an incentive to make people more active which is the first step in the right direction to give mental stimulation, company and activities to turn back the tide of health issues putting pressure on services.

  6. Poission 7

    Cross contamination (Bacteria) in gene editing experiment.

  7. greywarshark 8

    Brexit is my addiction, (I watch it like I used to watch Babylon 5.) Fascinating – what's next.

    I like the photo of Boorish that has been captured.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/more-turmoil-boris-johnson-he-loses-another-cabinet-member-over-brexit-fiasco

    BBC one good too. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49618242

    Amber Rudd not a dead insect encapsulated in gum. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49623737

    • Dukeofurl 8.1

      Rudd is just a careerist first and foremost looking out for herself. She makes Paula Bennett seem like Mary Poppins… the Windrush scandal wa swhen she was in charge….. she smells blood in the water for Johnson and wants to be part of the next cabinet and the next cabinet

      This is the person she is :

      "Rudd first denied there were targets for the removal of immigrants. Later, she maintained that she had not known of targets. Later still, The Guardian published leaked evidence that Rudd had known about targets: "

      Wikipedia. That resulted in one of her many resignations

      She should really be going to the Great Tory Boneyard in the Sky… but is likely to reappear somwhow.

  8. adam 9

    If you watch nothing else – watch the first first 2.15 find out if your a socialist or just some sort of wannabe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEoRykwvoj4&ab_channel=RTAmerica

  9. joe90 10

    Cleek's law done wrong.

    Fox News opinion host Laura Ingraham’s earnest efforts to troll liberals reached a new, if not bizarre, level Friday as she attempted to drink a steak stuffed with incandescent light bulbs through a plastic straw.

    “Well, it’s a meal that will trigger all the right … I meant all the left people,” she said to kick off the “Ingraham Angle” segment.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/laura-ingraham-tries-to-drink-light-bulb-steak-to-trigger-liberals_n_5d73c962e4b0fde50c2740cd?

  10. Andre 11

    The grift continues …

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/house-investigation-air-force-crew-trump-turnberry-resort-scotland.html

    Meanwhile, let's remind ourselves of Article 2 Section 1 Clause 7 of the Constitution:

    The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

    Money from any government source finding it's way into a federal official's pocket from any source other than salary is a direct violation of the constitution, and should be cause for immediate impeachment. But Repugs just don't care, it's not like adults were indulging in any consensual private pleasure or anything like that. (Although grossly inappropriate due to the power imbalance involved)

    • Dukeofurl 11.1

      Thats a beat up about USAF flight stop overs in Prestwick Scotland. Its not really Glasgow which has its own airport close to the city.

      They reason they stop. because planes fly 'Great Circle' arcs between origin and destination as much as possible. Prestwick is on the direct route for stop overs between Middle east and US military bases. Plus its less crowded airspace- which causes delays- than military airports in Southern England.

      We can see similar occurrences for USAF flights to Antarctica, they stop to refuel at Christchurch, change crew etc .

      This Trump Hotel/ Golf club is just outside Prestwick, maybe they offer a cut price deal for all these sort of cargo airlines for crew stop overs.

      The idea that they are stopping there so they can stay at that hotel doesnt follow.

        • Dukeofurl 11.1.1.1

          Cant see Prestwick 'supporting Bombing raids on Syria'

          A loaded Bomber definitely wont be landing at a public airport…. they need facilities that can handle live bombs.

          Like I said its a beatup about an insignificant thing, not that Trump hasnt loaded up his other hotels and golf clubs with official government events.

          this is more important

          n three Saturday evening tweets, Donald Trump claims that leaders of the Taliban, as well as Afghan president Ashraf Ghani, were secretly scheduled to land on U.S. soil “tonight.” Trump claimed that, “unbeknownst to almost everyone,” he had separate meetings scheduled with each at Camp David, the presidential retreat in Maryland.

          Trump then claimed that he bailed on the peace talks after the Taliban took credit for a deadly car bombing in Kabul on Thursday, which killed 12 people, including an American soldier.

          A Camp David peace deal with the Taliban ?

          What could go wrong. Even NZ has the Taliban on its Terrorist List of proscibed groups.

          • Macro 11.1.1.1.1

            Like I said its a beatup about an insignificant thing

            I don't think I would be saying that. There are questions being asked on both sides of the Atlantic. And yes! Trump is benefiting from this cozy arrangement.

            Scottish Government-owned Prestwick Airport paid £9m by Trump administration

            https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-government-owned-prestwick-airport-paid-9m-by-trump-administration-1-4954141

            Meanwhile – Trump Turnberry lost $4.5 mill in 2017 and with the help of taxpayer $$$, it made $3 mill in 2018. Furthermore Prestwick offered free rounds of golf at Turnberry to visiting US military and civilian air crews. So a fairly clear example of further contravention of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

      • joe90 11.1.2

        The idea that they are stopping there so they can stay at that hotel doesnt follow.

        Nothing quite like an official partnership.

        https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1170137677095669766.html

        • Macro 11.1.2.1

          Wow! That is some thread Joe. Meanwhile Jerry Nadler is preparing for action this week:

          House Judiciary panel preparing vote to define Trump impeachment probe

          The panel could vote as early as Wednesday on a resolution to spell out the parameters of its investigation. The precise language is still being hammered out inside the committee and with House leaders. A draft of the resolution is expected to be release Monday morning.

          Nadler has already sort clarification from the Pentagon on this very matter with a flat refusal to comply. Things could get very interesting this week.

    • Peter Christchurh nz 11.2

      More crazy conspiracy theories.

      And of course, man never landed on the moon, the ChCh mosque massacre was all Mossads doing, and my chips tonight are soggy because of Brexit.

      Unbelievable. And you are allowed to vote? I despair at times like this.

      • Andre 11.2.1

        Yes, I do vote. If it makes you feel better, I'm registered in the California 51st District, so the only time my vote might make the slightest difference is in the Dem primary for the House and Senate. But the House Rep is Juan Vargas who is well-liked, so it's unlikely he'll get a serious challenger, and CA doesn't have a senator up for election in 2020.

        I'm also capable of correctly spelling Christchurch.

        Meanwhile, you got anything to say about the situation whereby this is the first president ever* to own and operate businesses that sell services to the federal government, in direct contravention of one of the first clauses of the constitution? And where that business has massively increased since he took office with the one branch of government he has the most direct control over, being the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces?

        *I s’pose it’s possible Washington’s distillery sold whiskey to the Feds, but I’ve never seen any claim that that actually happened.

  11. Andre 12

    And now the dayglo swampzilla is trying to force automakers to pollute more …

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/antitrust-investigation-ford-bmw-justice-department_n_5d728876e4b03aabe35bbd99

  12. this is effin' hilarious..

    a cobb & co training vid from the 80's..

    i've never been to a cobb & co..

    but for those of you who used to..?…and liked it..?

    my god – you used to eat some crap..

    (the vid is 12 and a half mins long..but i urge you to watch all of it..

    the dessert for two – at the end – is well worth the wait/journey..(it comes with an umbrella..(!)..didn’tyaknow..?..)

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/food/14-08-2017/a-play-by-play-of-a-32-year-old-cobb-co-staff-training-video/

    i laughed like a drain thru much of it..

    the re-heated tinned-mushrooms – the ubiquitous orange-slice..

    the foul muck they called sauces – the piped cream..

    it just keeps giving and giving…heh..!

    • Gabby 13.1

      Cobbnco was great philly… ngnghchn…

    • Andre 13.2

      Mmmmmm …. crumbed schnitzel … stuffed with ham and cheese …

    • McFlock 13.3

      Ah, the eighties.

      Went to the one in Dunedin a few weeks ago – pretty good I thought. Didn't see much of that on the menu lol

      A couple of things stood out – the "express" lunch, with a 35 minute delivery time. Seafood joint near my work has a 15 minute promise today. Sign of the time crunch these days.

      Also: why did they put little plastic cow silhouettes in the steaks?! I remembered them as kids as soon as I saw them. What the actual fuck? At least plastic straws were useful!

      • gsays 13.3.1

        I'm pretty sure the coloured cows were to indicate the 'doneness' of steak.

        • McFlock 13.3.1.1

          lol so they were a little plastic token to tell you what the chef thinks you got, rather than just leaving it for you to assume that what you get is what you ordered?

          • gsays 13.3.1.1.1

            It was more for the one between the chef and the diner – the wait staff.

            So they knew what to announce they had when they got to the table.

    • OnceWasTim 13.4

      Don't be so awful Phil. It was farken sofusticaydid and pretty much the start of it all. Lil ole NuZull had come of age.

      • phillip ure 13.4.1

        ..heh..!

        and i have just remembered i have been to one..on north shore..just a few yrs ago..

        i think it was one..

        it was an auntie-do..

        and my vegan cousin and i wandered past the offerings..(twice..)

        and neither i nor she could bring ourselves to try anything…

        the aunties were all tucking in tho'…

        no accounting for taste..i'spose

    • marty mars 13.5

      I was a kitchen hand at cobbyco in welly – they really loved burning the bottom of the pots big time – I was also a vege so never ate there just cleaned the filthy meat pots – ahh now that took elbow grease to move that grease.

    • gsays 13.6

      Thanks for the link, it was a hoot.

      • phillip ure 13.6.1

        chrs..!

        i can't get those tinned mushrooms out of my mind..

        they must have been vile/puke-inducing..

        • joe90 13.6.1.1

          Along with canned beans and Irish stew, they were a staple on the surf trips of my youth. Easily heated and eaten with white whole loaf bread and washed down with beer or milk, they were pretty damned good.

    • millsy 13.7

      OMG — I havent been to Cobb and Co since 2000.

  13. greywarshark 14

    The film reviews on RadioNZ – one is of Apollo 11 and the question was raise- was this the event when the USA was really great?

    I think actually it was when The New Deal was brought in in USA and also being behind the Marshall Plan that got Europe out of its WW2 hell-hole of poverty of the countries, infrastructure and systems.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Change_in_American_ideology

    Incidentally I came across this good article from The Atlantic on Election voting – USA and Germany.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why-germany-s-politics-are-much-saner-cheaper-and-nicer-than-ours/280081/

    • Peter Christchurh nz 14.1

      Yep, USA was great once. As you say, Marshall Plan etc. Really though, US still is, in general. Most disaster aide in the world today is via US military.

      Sadly, the invasion of Iraq pretty much undermined a great country. And as for Vietnam,……. but I guess that is the superpower complex.

    • McFlock 14.2

      What I like about the USA is that it sets itself pretty spectacular ideals. Usually it fails dismally at achieving those ideals (most of the writers of those "self evident" truths about freedom were slaveholders, for example), but sometimes (UN, New Deal, Civil Rights Act, Apollo) it approaches them. And that's pretty spectacular.

      But so are their failures (KKK, Vietnam, CIA mcfuckery).

      • sumsuch 14.2.1

        Nothing much I like about America after '45. Took over the world, became an empire.

        • McFlock 14.2.1.1

          The War on Poverty was a good attempt.

          The tech is nice.

          And the thousands if not millions of people who worked together to have 12 people walk on the moon. Awesome not just that they did it, but as an example of what we can do with a united focus.

  14. joe90 16

    More corporate welfare.

    The White House is considering a plan that would have the government directly purchase uranium from U.S. producers as it contemplates ways to revive the flagging domestic mining industry.

    A group set up by President Donald Trump to study the issue is considering a request by the nuclear industry to use the Defense Production Act, a 68-year-old Cold War-era statute once invoked by President Harry Truman to help the steel industry. The plan calls for requiring the government to buy American uranium to replenish their stockpiles and for other purposes, Paul Goranson, chief operating officer for Energy Fuels Inc., said in an interview.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-06/white-house-considering-direct-purchases-of-u-s-mined-uranium

  15. Phil Ferguson 17

    The Greens used to claim to be doing politics differently.

    The censoring of an article by veteran Green Jill Abigail suggest the Green leadership have opted for censorship and control freakery. Here is they article they took exception to and banned:

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/09/03/21871/

    • McFlock 17.1

      Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

      They had to pick a side: TERF-positive or trans-positive. Either position was going to piss people off.

    • arkie 17.2

      Your marxist analysis is notably lacking if you genuinely believe that biological sex as a binary model of human physiology holds any water in modern medical science. In order to properly analyse reality, you first have to understand it; a task that is apparently too difficult for your ilk who are clearly stuck in centuries-old thought about sex that has long since been updated and replaced.

      Your quack theories about trans people being a threat are founded on bad science, education comes before activism, please step up.

      Seraphir

      • Psycho Milt 17.2.1

        Your marxist analysis is notably lacking if you genuinely believe that biological sex as a binary model of human physiology holds any water in modern medical science.

        Good luck convincing any actual biologists that sexual reproduction doesn't involve two sexes.

        • arkie 17.2.1.1

          Why the preoccupation on sexual reproduction?

          Trans people exist, modern medical science understands this, many societies understand this. Unfortunately they are a marginalised, stigmatised minority and articles that present trans-women as a threat in "women-only spaces" are factually wrong and exclusionary. Trans-women are women.

          • Psycho Milt 17.2.1.1.1

            Why the preoccupation on sexual reproduction?

            What pre-occupation? You posted a quote saying biological sex isn't binary, and I replied to the effect that biologists would be surprised to hear there are more than two sexes. That's not a "pre-occupation," it's a "reply."

            Trans people exist…

            No-one, least of all Jill Abigail, is disputing that.

            Unfortunately they are a marginalised, stigmatised minority…

            Ditto.

            Trans-women are women.

            However, that's simply untrue for any functional definition of "woman." The fact that "trans-woman" has the prefix "trans" should be a bit of a giveaway about that.

            • arkie 17.2.1.1.1.1

              In the complete quote I posted it says sex isn't a binary in human physiology and this is well-known in modern medical science. This has nothing to do with reproduction, nothing to do with biologists so your "reply" was at best a distraction from the topic at hand.

              Please provide what you consider to be the 'functional definition of "woman"'.

              • In the complete quote I posted it says sex isn't a binary in human physiology and this is well-known in modern medical science. This has nothing to do with reproduction…

                I've tried parsing the claim that sex has nothing to do with reproduction multiple times, but no matter how I come at it the claim still makes no sense. The term "sex" refers to reproduction, and the term "sex differences" exists exactly because they are differences in the respective reproductive systems (or caused by the reproductive systems.

                In my previous experience, references to sex supposedly not being binary are usually based on the existence of intersex people. However, the fact that sexual reproduction isn't 100% perfect and birth defects of the reproductive system can occur the same as they can for any other parts of the body was well-known to ancient medical science, let alone modern. That doesn't alter the fact that sexually-reproducing species have two sexes. Humans are no different in that respect.

                Please provide what you consider to be the 'functional definition of "woman"'.

                "A" functional definition, not "the." We have dictionaries for that, and the definition is usually "adult female human," or a variation on it. Drop "female" from the definition and it's just a synonym for "person," which would render it non-functional.

                • arkie

                  The obsession with reproduction as the important part for the definition of sex and gender excludes everyone who is unable to naturally conceive. Are all those infertile cis-gendered people also to be excluded from this gender binary? If not, why not?

                  Some females were assigned male at birth, it’s not a complicated thing, we agreed this above, it’s in dictionaries. However your example of a functional definition excludes trans-women because evidently you don’t actually consider them to be female. Why would this be?

                  • … reproduction as the important part for the definition of sex and gender excludes everyone who is unable to naturally conceive.

                    Sex, not gender – gender's a social construct, nothing to do with physiology. And no the definitions of man and woman don't exclude people unable to conceive – the dictionary doesn't qualify the term "female" with "NB: female reproductive system in question must be proven to function correctly", for fairly obvious reasons.

                    Some females were assigned male at birth, it’s not a complicated thing, we agreed this above, it’s in dictionaries.

                    We did. However, we're talking about trans-women, not intersex people. The proportion of trans women who are intersex would be tiny.

                    …your example of a functional definition excludes trans-women because evidently you don’t actually consider them to be female. Why would this be?

                    First and foremost, because they're not female. I found that a pretty compelling reason.

                    • arkie

                      The dictionary definitions of man and woman don't exclude trans people either, but you seem to think it does

                      Trans-women were assigned male at birth. That is the definition of a trans-women. Intersexuality isn't relevant here.

                      So you say trans-women are not female, pray tell, what do you determine them to be?

                    • McFlock

                      …your example of a functional definition excludes trans-women because evidently you don’t actually consider them to be female. Why would this be?

                      First and foremost, because they’re not female. I found that a pretty compelling reason.

                      A bit circular, and well removed from your original comment about reproduction requiring two sexes.

                    • Trans-women were assigned male at birth.

                      Trans-women were assigned male at conception, by physical reality. If they'd rather live as a woman, all good by me and let's make that as straightforward for them as possible, but there isn't any way for them to become female – which leads to debates like the one Jill Abigail was contributing to (or trying to, at least).

                      So you say trans-women are not female, pray tell, what do you determine them to be?

                      Male/female is a matter of sex, not gender. We can fuck with gender every which way we feel like because it's a social construct, but so far no-one's come up with the technology for a person to change their sex.

                    • A bit circular, and well removed from your original comment about reproduction requiring two sexes.

                      Fair cop, that was a silly answer, but it was a silly question. The answer was also not unrelated from my original comment, because male and female refer to the two sexes. The question of why I'd consider someone with a male body not to be female is self-answering.

                    • McFlock

                      […]so far no-one's come up with the technology for a person to change their sex.

                      um…

                    • You do get that if I have surgery to make me look younger, it hasn't actually made me younger, right?

                    • McFlock

                      Luckily sex change surgery merely involves changing organs, rather than resisting the inexorable progression of the universe.

    • The Greens used to claim to be doing politics differently.

      "Used to?" Can you point to the times any mainstream party's had a shitfight over whether it's going to back trans activists or feminists?

    • Pat 17.4

      "No previous extensions of human rights for new groups have involved taking away the rights of others needing protection."

    • Pat 17.5

      Upon reading that link it occurred to me that Maggie Thatchers work continues by proxy….or perhaps she was prescient.

  16. A 18

    Tauranga a ghost town at 5pm, Monday. Lots of vacant prime commercial real estate. Anyone who thinks we will keep seeing prices rise is dreaming & it will get worse despite the GST about to be charged on imported goods.

    30 odd units vacant (!) on just two roads.

    Check it out what mainstream news won’t be telling you.

    The Tauranga auction spy reports that this week out of the 11 residential auctions he attended 8 did not get a single bid.

    • Sabine 18.1

      pretty much any town in nz is suffering from this lack of commercial tenants. Reason one: Leases in Tauranga, Rotorua, Tokoroa, Putaruru, Taupo etc are all the same, namely as in AKL. Meaninch 15-25 grand a year ex gst, ex rates, ex building insurance, ex ex ex ex ex ex

      and so as long as that is addressed ( and we have the same issue with residential) people don't rent/lease. Simple as that.

      Prices will raise, but it ain't the locals buying. And for those that can't sell, fear not, just write of your loss if you can't find a tenant to pay your exuberant rent / lease demands. The government will look after you 🙂

      That is the biggest single failing of the current lot running the show in wellington, they could have closed loopholes that allow property owners to keep buildings, dwelling, residential/commercial spaces empty as they still make money of it. They could have regulated rent demands, they could have regulated air bnb, they could have should have but sadly have done fuck all.

    • The Chairman 18.2

      Indeed, A.

      With the soaring cost of housing, power, rates, insurance and food it's no wonder people can't afford to go shopping, thus bars and restaurants are struggling and shops are sitting vacant.

      The one thing that is growing is queues at the local food bank.

  17. joe90 19

    'Murica

  18. marty mars 20

    wow – just noticed this – I hope it gets better I really do

    Authorities are labelling Queensland's bushfire emergency as historic, as crews continue to battle dozens of blazes.

    …"It is an historic event. [We've] never seen this before in recorded history – fire weather has never been as severe, this early in Spring," Inspector Sturgess said.

    "So this is an omen, if you will, a warning of the fire season that we're likely to see ahead in the south-eastern parts of the state, the driest parts of the state, where most of our population is."

    Acting Queensland Premier Jackie Trad said the severe conditions could be attributed to climate change.

    "There is no doubt that with an increasing temperature with climate change, then what the scientists tell us is that events such as these will be more frequent and they will be much more ferocious."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/398364/bushfires-out-of-control-in-nsw-and-queensland-expected-to-increase

  19. Exkiwiforces 21

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08-09-2019/#comment-1653159

    Hi Everyone,

    The East Coast Fire Season, has started about 2mths early than normal. In some parts of the east coast it’s so extreme that some towns have next to no water or are likely to run out water in the coming months and as a result of a lack of water the fire crews have to resort to dry fire fighting techniques which is not a effective, but that’s what they do given the circumstances especially around the Tenterfield area in Northern NSW.

    I had drinks with my Bushfire Brigade on Thursday here at Dundee NT, where the talk got around the water supply? The local plumber who also supplies water as everyone is on Tank water or they shallow bores are running out of water and it get worse. The local plumber has had to cut back in the water cart business, so he doesn’t run old of water and the community open water supply has run dry. Due to selfish members of the Dundee community have been using our bushfires outlet which feeds out of the bottom tank and at times has stuffed up the bore feeding the water tank. Where as the community outlet is half way up the tank and it’s going to a point if we have fire we may not have water and this water supply supports people out to a radius of 20-30 km’s.

    Some communities in the Darwin Rural Area are about run out of water or they have been trucking in water since Xmas and the scary thing is we are expecting to this fire season to extend out to December and water to be very scarce until the Wet Season breaks if it comes at all?

    Its getting despite in a lot of places throughout Australia if this current droughts doesn’t break IRT water, food production and whole communities etc.

  20. Eco maori 22

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Aron looks like a national supporter I seen his nihor showing.

    Sam the number one cause of suicide is no money. I have seen for my self how professionals lawyers advises accounts and foresters have ripped off people close to me THAT'S CAPTILSIM take all you can from innocent people with their silver TONGUES.

    You should have taken the complaints to the police Paula milking it.

    BULLSHIT there are deaths from dairydack for years how do we know that you are telling the TRUTH about the numbers and dates. People were making money off the sale of stuff that could kill people this is national mess you are trying to blame others Paul It would never have been a issue if it was stamped out straight away not sold in shops.

    There you go America needs to change laws to make tech companies responsible for the content on their platform.

    Eric their you go Jacinda is speaking about the haters get exposure on big tech companies sites that will help to highlight the problem and motivate them to take the videos down. It's will be hard when you have old Politicians employed on the big tech companies LOBBYING branches.

    I read that colonel sanders was a white supremist I get a sore face when people quote him.

    Ka kite Ano

  21. Eco maori 23

    No there is just a small amount of real criminal in New Zealand Mark 2%

  22. Eco maori 24

    Kia Ora Newshub

    The Coalition Government new approach ZERO lives lost to suicide every life matters is awesome.

    Some people are so cruel how can they do that to a human or even a animal those idiots who torchered that poor Wahine WTF.

    There he goes again barking up the wrong tree bridges doe not think very well of course we care about the haters who harm inenecint tangata using the Internet to gain support it must be stop.

    Let's hope Otago get a good growing season this year. Im hopeing for some wind from Tawhirimate to get my wind turbine turning I had to design if for strong Tawhirimate as things get blown over were we are.

    Mike that's gives Eco Maori A sore face all the Tangata and Tamariki wanting to learn Te Reo it is every one in Aotearoa taonga Ka pai.

    Ka kite Ano

  23. Eco maori 25

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    I have congratulations for our government move to a goal of zero lives lost to suicide . I agree with Mike suicide is a New Zealand problem

    It awesome that Te puni korokiri is tau toko Te tangata with building whare on their own whenua that is what Te puni Korokiri did back in the days of old.

    Maori tourism is getting links to boost their business and putea Ka pai

    Toronto film Festival Tika Waititi Jojo rabbit will show Maori wit and humour awesome.

    Turangi A Kiwa celebrating Te Reo Maori Language week kia kaha Whanau. Tawhirimate was celebrating Te Reo Maori Language week to. Pouho Rawiri Marae

    Maunatu taonga their tamariki Ka pai I taonga my tamariki so does Ngāti Porou.

    Ka kite Ano

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