Open mike 08/11/2010

64 comments on “Open mike 08/11/2010 ”

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1. ron 1

   8 November 2010 at 7:14 am

   So the guvmint decided to rearrange TOPS education, it’s mid November and there is STILL no decision on the structure and outcomes required from next year’s providers.
   It seems ironic that government departments can piss around for so ,long making these sorts of changes (they originally said providers would have final info by October) but there’d be hell to pay if a provider was this late in submitting outcomes or results.
2. Jenny 2

   8 November 2010 at 7:30 am

   Is peace in the Middle East possible?

   Hear the surprising answer from award-winning speaker Anna Baltzer, former Fulbright scholar, Columbia University graduate, author, grand-daughter of Holocaust refugees, and recent guest on the The Daily show with Jon Stewart.

   Baltzer will present eyewitness reports on the conflict & the exciting nonviolence movement for peace.

   She will be signing copies of her acclaimed book;

   Witness in Palestine: A Jewish American Woman in the Occupied Territories.

   It’s Today;
   MONDAY NOVEMBER 8TH 2010
   UNIVERSITY OF AUCKLAND 6.30 – 8.30PM
   LECTURE THEATRE B28
   (beneath the library)

   US Jewish author speaks in Auckland on Mid-East peace
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     8 November 2010 at 12:01 pm

     grand-daughter of Holocaust refugees

     Since when did being someone’s grand-daughter become a title of respect?
     • prism 2.1.1

       8 November 2010 at 1:00 pm

       DTB What did you mean when you said this – “Since when did being someone’s grand-daughter become a title of respect?” It seems a redundant remark.
       • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1

         8 November 2010 at 3:05 pm

         In the list of her accomplishments being someone’s grand-daughter happens to be one of them which is rather stupid. It seems to indicate that being related to someone makes you better which is a patently stupid conclusion of failed logic.
     • the pink postman 2.1.2

       8 November 2010 at 4:20 pm

       Nobody said it is a title of respect . However survivers and their desendents have a reason to take the past into consideration . The terrible Holocaust must never ever be forgotton and Holocaust refugee decendents are lucky to be alive. They have a special place in history and they have a duty to to keep this shocking episode in our thoughts.
       There are forces at large who would like us to think it never happened.
       • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1

         8 November 2010 at 4:58 pm

         Nobody said it is a title of respect.

         That’s the way it comes across when in a list of accomplishments.

         However survivers and their desendents have a reason to take the past into consideration.

         Everyone does this doesn’t mean that being a descendant of a holocaust survivor actually means anything. My father was in the RAF in WWII and this made absolutely no difference in my outlook or my knowledge of WWII at all.

         The terrible Holocaust must never ever be forgotton…
         There are forces at large who would like us to think it never happened.

         Which is why we have history books. Yes, I do know that people with an interest try to have history re-written. We just have to keep our eyes open for that and prevent it.

         They have a special place in history and they have a duty to to keep this shocking episode in our thoughts.

         No they don’t.

         and Holocaust refugee decendents are lucky to be alive.

         WTF? Especially considering that you made it part of a sentence that it didn’t even relate to.
         • Vicky32 2.1.2.1.1

           8 November 2010 at 7:30 pm

           People forget that there were and are, and sadly almost certainly will be things much worse than the Nazi ‘holocaust’.. and some of things are denied as strenuously! (The Armenian genocide for one.)
           The Holocaust against the Jews is used now as an excuse by the IDF to do mind-bendingly appalling things to Palestinians. We have to be aware of that!
           “If Holcaust refugee descendants are lucky to be alive”, PP that applies to a heaping helping of other people, such as for starters, the Somali refugees who live next door to me, my Vietnamese students whose parents were in danger from Americans, Australians and misguided New Zealanders, and the Afghani refugees to whom I gave my brother’s furniture when he died. I know absolutely that he would have approved.
           Deb
         • joe90 2.1.2.1.2

           8 November 2010 at 7:46 pm

           Alice Sommer Herz is 106 and here’s the trailer for the documentary Alice Dancing Under the Gallows. More here and an extract from the book A Garden of Eden in Hell: The Life of Alice Herz-Sommer.
     • Jenny 2.1.3

       11 November 2010 at 7:22 pm

       Anna Baltzer in mentioning that her grandparents were victims of the nazi persecution of the Jews, is simply stating a genealogical fact.

       Why is it in her list of credentials?

       Probably for the same reason that other people with the same family history use this as an excuse to justify their treatment of the Palestinians.

       Anna’s message is that having such a family history is no excuse for racist treatment of the Palestinians.

       PS.
       I think DTB, that your objection to Anna not leaving out this singular but important fact from her CV, tells more about you, than her.
3. Carol 3

   8 November 2010 at 7:54 am

   Saw the headline for this on Stuff this morning at the top of the page. But before I read it, it slipped out of sight. I had to look for it, and found it in the Life and Style section. WTF? This should at least be under the National or Politics section. Not only are women slipping in their positions in governance, pay etc, but Stuff doesn’t consider news of this equal to mainstream politics or national news!

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/4318069/Womens-status-and-pay-slipping-report

   The 2010 Census of Women’s Participation reveals that female participation in governance, professional and public life has started to slide, erasing gains made in the past decades.

   It also shows women still being paid less than men for doing the same public sector jobs.

   Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner Judy McGregor said the census painted a deteriorating picture for women.

   New Zealand Herald at least has an article on it in the National section.
4. Lazy Susan 4

   8 November 2010 at 7:55 am

   “Selfish”, “bully-boy”, “thuggish” and “drunken” – various words that have been used to describe the crowd at Eden Park at the weekend.

   “Shambolic”, “chaotic”, “mis-managed” – words used to describe the management of the crowd at Eden Park.

   Well, leadership comes from the top – ring any bells? Key’s aspirational New Zealand maybe.
   • joe90 4.1

     8 November 2010 at 9:20 am

     Arena Manawatu, where chucking shit onto the paddock is the norm, sledging opposition players and drunken emulations of a sex act, in the mud, on the stock car track, is performance art, a hold up in play while the match officials send security into the grandstands to retrieve game balls, because the crowd has stolen every one that’s gone into touch, and the wife of one of the home players disagrees with a decision and goes storming through the mud on the stock car track, in heels, onto the pitch to attack the referee with her shoe. That’s a poorly behaved crowd.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.2

     8 November 2010 at 12:07 pm

     I just used the word hooligan to describe them. The next question is WTF causes hooliganism?
   • prism 4.3

     8 November 2010 at 12:56 pm

     It’s time we opened our eyes to rugby. It was once thought of as a sport with fine results of fitness, expertise, team esprit and general good character building. It is actually a promotion event to assist in marketing beer and other alcohol.
     We need to spend the profits? from the RWC for parent training so they learn how to raise their young children with standards of behaviour that don’t produce the slobs we now ‘enjoy’.

     Also of course a curb on 1 alcohol sales, 2 hours of sale, 3 numbers of outlets, 4 age for sales, and 5 recourse to parents when their children get drunk, injured or destructive by billing or fining them (up to the age of 21). A lot of the troublesome youth have middle class, good earning parents who understand the separation of the pocket and the state ie they let the state pick up the pieces of their children’s lives while they wring their hands, weep and whine.
     • the pink postman 4.3.1

       8 November 2010 at 4:23 pm

       Money and alchohol has destroyed sport. Its all big business and we are the losers /.
       • Colonial Viper 4.3.1.1

         8 November 2010 at 5:51 pm

         Got very little time for rugby. The last time I actually sat down and watched a game on TV from start to finish – a couple of years now. Don’t miss it one bit. And in Australia, union falls way behind Aussie Rules in popularity, money and mana.
         • Vicky32 4.3.1.1.1

           8 November 2010 at 7:40 pm

           Never watched one in my life, and hope never to do so! (I associate it with drunken, bullying abusive ex # 1… )
           Deb
           Football, however (called soccer in the USA and increasingly often here) is not so tedious, although I still watch that only to please number 3 son…
           • Lanthanide 4.3.1.1.1.1

             8 November 2010 at 10:59 pm

             Football? Don’t you get sick of the fact that it’s all so arbitrary and random and has more to do with luck than skill? Let alone all the pansies rolling all over the field acting injured, then happily getting up and carrying on like nothing happened once they’ve been acknowledged by the ref.

             If there’s any sport I’d actually enjoy watching it’s netball – teamwork really shows through, and it’s a fast moving strategic game. Court is probably a bit small though, with the speed they can get the ball from one end to the other.
             • Vicky32 …

               9 November 2010 at 6:47 pm

               I am not a fan of any team sport – sport is associated in my mind with being bullied at school by the giantesses who played netball, and by the ‘PE’ teacher who screeched at me for my ‘cowardice’ and ‘laziness’ and tore up medical notes from my mother and doctors… Lucky for her that I didn’t have heart disease or something that would have got her into serious sh1te when I collapsed! (The problem I did have was bad enough, because invisible to her.)
               Sport Billy? No, sport bully!
               I have watched football to please my son, and had great trouble staying awake when watching it on’telly… then we went to the stadium in Welly to see the All Whites get creamed by Paraguay. It was exciting – not because of the sport, but because of 1000s of people there for the same purpose, none of which involved sledging, urinating, drinking and flinging bottles or abusing anyone! So, football for me, if I absolutely must…
     • Draco T Bastard 4.3.2

       8 November 2010 at 5:01 pm

       Body Contact Sport, Booze, Jingoism, Testosterone, Limited Articulateness and Low IQ – So what the bloody hell did you expect?
       Pretty much sums up the way I see rugby in NZ as well.
       • M 4.3.2.1

         8 November 2010 at 5:42 pm

         Draco

         Thanks for this – thought I was the only person in NZ who didn’t like thugby. Saying you’re not interested in the national game is almost tantamount to treason but for my money just fosters and reinforces undesirable macho attitudes towards others.
         • gingercrush 4.3.2.1.1

           8 November 2010 at 5:48 pm

           You’re treasonous not because you dislike Rugby. You’re treasonous because your reaction of rugby is the same shit as rich elite people do to low-income people or how racists treat Maori, Pasifika and Asians.
           • Colonial Viper 4.3.2.1.1.1

             8 November 2010 at 5:53 pm

             lolz at attempt to assert that the moral implications of dissing a minor sport = humiliating an ethnic or vulnerable minority

             It isn’t you know.
           • Bill 4.3.2.1.1.2

             8 November 2010 at 5:55 pm

             You mean it’s possible to be rugbyist? Or guilty of rugbyism? Woo.

             All those downtrodden and disadvantaged rugby players and supporters shouldn’t have to put up with such senselessness.
5. Pascal's bookie 5

   8 November 2010 at 8:27 am

   said the other day that intra-GOP trench warfare was the order of the day going forward in the US.

   This skimish is funny:

   There is a pretty strong and obvious bunch of symbolism in the GOPs rhetorical arsenal around certain issues pertaining to liberals being a bunch of effette limp wristed faggitty fags who can’t drink proper and ride bikes and wear autumn colours and don’t serve and won’t fight coz they look french. This is in direct contrast, rhetorically and with the symbol banging, to the Glorious GOPmen who refuse to stop wars no matter how they are going wear plaid denim and leather hats while they hunt tame fat birds and don’t apologise when they shoot their clients in the face.

   That much is prelude to understanding just how nasty this quote is, from GWB re: Palin.

   “Naming Palin makes Bush think less of McCain as a man,” a Republican official familiar with Bush’s thinking told the Daily News.

   cite
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     8 November 2010 at 9:11 am

     http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/06/opinion/06herbert.html?src=me&ref=general

     Our leaders in Washington seem entirely out of touch with the needs, the hopes, the fears and the anxieties of the millions of Americans who are out of work, who are struggling with their mortgages or home foreclosures, who are skimping on needed medication in order to keep food on the table, and who lie awake at night worrying about what the morning will bring. No one even dares mention the poor.

     What this election tells me is that real leadership will have to come from elsewhere, from outside of Washington, perhaps from elected officials in statehouses or municipal buildings that are closer to the people, from foundations and grass-roots organizations, from the labor movement and houses of worship and community centers.

     The civil rights pioneers did not wait for presidential or Congressional leadership, nor did the leaders of the women’s movement. They plunged ahead with their crucial work against the longest odds and in the face of seemingly implacable hostility. Leaders of the labor movement braved guns, bombs, imprisonment and heaven knows what else to bring fair wages and dignity to working people.
     • john 5.1.1

       8 November 2010 at 10:55 am

       Hi CV Here is a link to an article in http://www.commondreams.org showing the total disaster the NeoLiberal US has come to. Obama is nothing more than a used up tool of Anerican Corporations and their Banks. This is the disaster road the ACT-nat party want us to continue down, next step privatixe ACC by stealth if necessary.

       http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/11/07
       • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1

         8 November 2010 at 11:26 am

         Thanks mate. The fact that Obama put the people who sailed the ship into the iceberg back in charge of the ship was enormously telling.

         I have a great video link here (reqs broadband unfortunately) about the “Paradox of Choice”. Why having more choice can make people unhappy, anxious, and why many the choices we are given are not even real or realistic, leading to even more stress. In other words, having infinite libertarian free choice is doomed to cause a large proportion of people a lot of personal daily pain.

         http://fora.tv/2010/07/08/Renata_Salecl_The_Paradox_of_Choice
       • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2

         8 November 2010 at 12:25 pm

         The US will be having another revolution in the near future. Take everything away from the majority and give it to the rich and the people who have nothing left to lose will turn to violence to get something.
         • ianmac 5.1.1.2.1

           8 November 2010 at 3:24 pm

           Too much choice in Libraries and in Supermarkets makes me unhappy and anxious. I suggested to a Public Library Resarch team that if they filled the library with nothing but copies of just one book it would reduce my anxiety. The idea was duly noted but not yet actioned.
           • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2.1.1

             8 November 2010 at 5:31 pm

             A) Why did you reply to me rather than CV?
             B) WTF are you smoking? The cure for excessive choice doesn’t mean that we should have no choice but that the choices should be clearer.

             Quite often there’s an illusion that we have a choice. Computers are a good example of the illusion of having a lot of choice that contains no choice. The computer hardware itself is an IBM PC Compatible. Forget all the branding on them as that is you’re only choice. As for choice in OS, well, that comes down to whether it has Windows compatibility or not. MacOS does this by running Windows in virtualisation and Linux does it by having a compatibility layer but both would not be a viable choice if they didn’t have that compatibility.
             • ianmac …

               8 November 2010 at 6:58 pm

               I meant just a smidgeon of irony DTB. OK?
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 8 November 2010 at 7:08 pm

                 Ah, sorry then 🙂
         • Bored 5.1.1.2.2

           8 November 2010 at 4:22 pm

           CV, I read Schama Citizens recently, added it to readings from Marx and others with regard to revolutions and revolutionary theories. The really telling comments by both on the French revolution were that there was no certainty of when the act of revolution would happen, only that it was certain. The single precondition that appeared to make the revolution innevitable was the total disconnect between the rulers and the ruled in terms of reality, and their different vision of reality. You might pay lip service to divine right of kings if you were not starving, but when you and everybody else was extremely hungry the question got asked ,”why were those buggers so fat”? Royal cake went on the menu.

           We have the same scenario today BUT for as long as the dole can be paid and for as long as the middle classes are still recieving their salaries there will be no change. We will accept we have an imperfect system. If we starve together then things will happen quickly.
           • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.2.2.1

             8 November 2010 at 6:00 pm

             Revolution vs Progressive Evolution? In either the case the Left must have its very capable leaders and fomenters. Where are they?

             We have the same scenario today BUT for as long as the dole can be paid and for as long as the middle classes are still recieving their salaries there will be no change.

             The human misery of lost dreams and no brighter future to look forwards to might be able to do the trick. Interesting how they are trying harder than ever to push opiate on to the masses though.
6. The Voice of Reason 6

   8 November 2010 at 10:48 am

   If National are so business savvy, how come they can’t balance a budget? This wouldn’t have happened if Michael Cullen was still calling the shots:

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4319945/Treasury-reports-2-2b-blowout
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     8 November 2010 at 11:22 am

     Of course, NAT isn’t business savvy at all. They have no idea how to actually build an economy and they are fixated on a simplistic neocon paradigm. But it is amazing that they have done the branding job so well as the ‘natural party of business’.
   • ianmac 6.2

     8 November 2010 at 7:03 pm

     Note that Bill English’s response today was, “We will have to make further cuts in Government spending.” Did he sound reluctant? Hardly. It is a gift to justify State Services. Did the tax cuts contribute to the deficit? Yes but…..
     • Kevin Welsh 6.2.1

       8 November 2010 at 7:38 pm

       Ooooo, a 1997 flashback, I love it.

       Time to trot it out again.
7. joe90 7

   8 November 2010 at 12:04 pm

   From Slate: The United States of Inequality.

   also, for giggles, trickle down
8. freedom 8

   8 November 2010 at 1:06 pm

   – for those following the Obama citizenship story , it is now with the Supreme Court
   and it will be very interesting to see how the white House defends the passport complications of 1967 and 1981. This story has never been about birth certificate fraud in Hawaii.

   How hard can it be to decide what country you are from? Depends on whose puppet you are?
   • The Voice of Reason 8.1

     8 November 2010 at 1:15 pm

     Who gives a flying one about where he was born? It’s a stupid, xenophobic law and the fuss is just about giving racists another reason to hate the black man currently occupying the White House. It’s a non issue for the vast majority of Americans, who just seem mostly to be concerned with finding a job or keeping the one they’ve got. But, I suppose it helps fill a few minutes of airtime on Fox, so it must be a really, really important issue.
   • Pascal's bookie 8.2

     8 November 2010 at 1:42 pm

     freedom, that article was posted in jan, and as noted in the first comment, it’s an april fools joke.
     • ianmac 8.2.1

       8 November 2010 at 3:30 pm

       But it was written in flat unexcited reportage and had my eyebrows lifting- until I read the comments below the article. Mind you the Tea Party are perpetuating the myth!
9. KINTO 9

   8 November 2010 at 1:52 pm

   Whats with all these Labour party activists popping up everywhere? Or is it just on Kiwiblog?
   • Bright Red 9.1

     8 November 2010 at 3:34 pm

     you mean people who are interested in political issues are also sometimes members of political parties!?!1!

     call the fuzz!

     Hey, aren’t Farrar and Slater members of National?
     • KINTO 9.1.1

       8 November 2010 at 4:34 pm

       exactly my point, then they go looking like clowns claiming ad-hom attacks…

       Kiwibog actually makes a pretty good case study for selection bias these days.
10. Draco T Bastard 10

    8 November 2010 at 3:34 pm

    THEY ARE THE FEAR THEY WANT US TO FEEL

    It is no coincidence that Cordoba House, the mosque-that-isn’t-even-a-mosque, became an issue in the summer of a midterm election. The nontroversy over 51 Park Place in Manhattan belongs in a textbook about authoritarianism to be distributed to every news anchor in America; this ugly resurgence of reactionary politics took on a life of its own before it occurred to mainstream media that a community center might not be a mosque. Goebbels’ “big lie” held true: by calling it a mosque several thousand times, the narrative of a Muslim victory trophy two blocks from ground zero was constructed well in advance of mainstream attention to the utter absence of minarets in its design. There doesn’t have to be a “there” there as long as Glenn Beck and Michelle Malkin can put one there. The rest is merely up to the media to act as stovepipe, blowing smoke into the public discourse by “reporting the controversy” as if that was real news. Debunking, fact-checking, and responsive opinion never quite catch up to the lie.

    Sounds remarkably like our MSM. NACT lie and the MSM dutifully parrot it without doing any of the necessary journalistic stuff like fact checking.
    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      8 November 2010 at 6:08 pm

      Like Matt McCarten mentioned, the Left need to own their own major television network, and hire the exact editorial staff that they want.
    • Vicky32 10.2

      8 November 2010 at 7:48 pm

      A friend of mine sent me an article from Corriere della Sera a few months back, about an American study that showed that people feel angry about having believed a false story, and become very resistant indeed to believing the corrected version of the story! (Sadly, the story is in Italian and I don’t have a link to an English language version, otherwise I would provide a link. Pretty depressing stuff!)
      Deb
11. Vicky32 11

    8 November 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Just heard an item about a man with a speech disability who was abused on the phone by a worker at ACC…
    He’s written to John Key (and a lot of other people, but 3 News puts Smile and Wave first, of course) and I don’t think it’ll do him much good! Although I hope it does get him somewhere…
    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      8 November 2010 at 6:47 pm

      Actually, he wasn’t. He overheard what the CSR said to another CSR after the conversation was over. Don’t blame the CSR for not hanging up – they’re trained not to (although they are also supposed to be trained in checking that the customer has also gone before they say anything).

      I was more disgusted by the fact that he had gone through 2 months of doubt about the hernia being accepted when it seems to be standard policy that they aren’t.
      • Vicky32 11.1.1

        8 November 2010 at 7:56 pm

        True, DTB! (That fact wasn’t even discussed.) However, the CSR showed a distinct lack of sensitivity. By me, the guy wasn’t that hard to understand (mind, I spent years years working with people with disabilities.) When I worked for WINZ in the 80s (yes, the irony!) I had a ‘client’ with a very bad stammer, whose surname was Cross, and he very often was – but if I ever complained about his speech impediment I did it on my own time, and it wasn’t his speech issue I complained about, but his bad temper understandable though it was..
12. jcuknz 12

    8 November 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Further to my comment about my local dairy wanting $4.60 for an ordinary loaf of bread. Today The price is down to $3.20, the August price, so they are doing themselves out of the 7 cent increase in GST, or $3.30 when rounded up.
    • Lanthanide 12.1

      8 November 2010 at 11:01 pm

      Ok, what’s your point?
      • jcuknz 12.1.1

        9 November 2010 at 4:55 pm

        The sky is not falling … and …consumer protest can bring results.
13. Cameron 13

    8 November 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Good meeting happening tomorrow night in Auckland on the Philippines. Very important since John Key added the Communist Party of the Philippines to NZ’s terror list a few weeks ago.

    Public meeting with Luis Jalandoni and Coni Ledesma of the National Democratic Front of the Philippines. The National Democratic Front is a coalitiion of anti-govt left groups including the Communist Party of the Philippines which has been fighting a Peoples War against the Philippines government for 40 years. Luis and Coni are the figures responsible for engaging in peace negotiations of behalf of the NDF with the Philippines government.

    Tuesday, November 9 · 7:00pm – 9:30pm
    Trades Hall, 147 Great North Rd, Grey Lynn

    Organised by Auckland Philippines Solidarity.
14. Draco T Bastard 14

    8 November 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Another Farm Quad Death

    In Cape Foulwind, Buller, a 17 year female farm hand employee drove to a remote part of the farm on a quad bike towing a trailer of fertiliser.

    Several hours later fellow workers on the farm noticed her missing. They conducted a search and located her this afternoon.

    She was found pinned under the overturned quad bike in a hill area of the farm and died at the scene.

    It seems though that the government is aware that there is a problem in quadbike use:

    She said farmers who don’t follow these safety steps risk penalties under the Health and Safety in Employment Act if someone working on their farm is seriously injured or killed.

    I think murder is a reasonable charge. Loss of the farm and never being allowed to manage anything ever again is a reasonable consequence as well.
    • M 14.1

      8 November 2010 at 10:34 pm

      Unfortunately, too much of a ‘she’ll be right’ attitude persists with some in the work arena and this young woman paid with her life. Of course the farming bloc will come out with a chorus of nanny state to try and divert attention away from this preventable death.

      Saw the article in the side bar re the softening up of the public for next year’s budget:

      ‘Come budget time around May and we will told the cupboard is bare and there can be no goodies’

      http://www.aucklandtrains.co.nz/2010/11/08/softened-up-for-fall/

      There may not be any goodies but I doubt whether there will be any drastic cuts either because NACT wants another three years to truly bugger up the country. If NACT are returned next year the scalpel will be taken to beneficiaries in May 2012 along with health, education and the police.

      Crime wave anyone?
    • the pink postman 14.2

      9 November 2010 at 3:07 pm

      This type of “accident” is common in in jobs where there is no union.
      Many farmers do not allow their workers to, belong to a union. The tied house plus the love of that type of job restricts union recruitment . I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that compulsory union membership is needed .
    • Vicky32 14.3

      9 November 2010 at 6:50 pm

      “I think murder is a reasonable charge. Loss of the farm and never being allowed to manage anything ever again is a reasonable consequence as well.”
      Seconded!
15. ianmac 15

    8 November 2010 at 11:35 pm

    They were talking on Maori TV tonight late, about the secret meetings taking place tonight Monday, between the leaders of the Maori Advisory Group (Morgan was one) and John Key. They said that the Group was looking for advice on how to get mining on Maori land. There were some localised iwi who were cross about the possibility and at the role that the Advisory group were playing without consultation. Could become a bit messy.

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1. The Standard: posted on 7 November 2010 at 4:59 pm

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