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Open mike 08/12/2009

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 8th, 2009 - 59 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Topics of interest, announcements, general discussion. The usual rules apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

59 comments on “Open mike 08/12/2009 ”

  1. BLiP 1

    Today John Key is telling parents its okay to assault their children, last week he was boasting about how he managed to get around court-ordered name suppression, what’s next?

  2. Tim Ellis 2

    It will be interesting today to see how much heat spills out from the Labour Party caucus meeting. Mr Goff may well be grilled by Mr Robertson and others on his infamous “Nationhood” speech.

    The Roy Morgan poll out last night won’t be happy reading for Mr Goff either, showing that Mr Goff’s attempts to take an opportunistic, divisive line on race relations isn’t winning him voters.

    • The Voice of Reason 2.1

      Sorry, Tim. The Roy Morgan poll was conducted between the 16th and the 29th of November. Goff’s speech was on the 26th, so only a tiny minority of those polled were aware of it’s existence and therefore it had no significant impact on the result.

      Nice spin though, for so early in the morning. Have another coffee and try again.

      • Tim Ellis 2.1.1

        TVOR, those are the same excuses that are toddled out whenever Mr Goff has a poor poll result.

        I don’t think Mr Goff will suffer badly in the polls from the Nationhood speech. I suspect though it will just confirm the views of people who didn’t support him before, and harden up the anti-Labour vote, because Mr Goff is just getting more and more desperate by the day.

        It’s refreshing to know that there are people in Labour’s caucus who are prepared to take action to stop the constant slide though.

  3. Bored 3

    Post the endless “economic” debates a thought for the day……just listening to Radio “drear” Brooklyn and heard a claim that some recent behavoiral research shows,( and it sounds pretty accurate to me) that “the only people who actually act rationally in self interest alone are economists and psychopaths”.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      Pretty much. Research has shown that those people most likely to cheat, steal and lie if it benefits them are business people and economists.

  4. The Voice of Reason 4

    Compare and contrast:

    TE, 7.32am:

    The Roy Morgan poll out last night won’t be happy reading for Mr Goff either, showing that Mr Goff’s attempts to take an opportunistic, divisive line on race relations isn’t winning him voters.

    TE, 7.54am:

    I don’t think Mr Goff will suffer badly in the polls from the Nationhood speech.

    • felix 4.1

      He’s operating on a whole other level.

    • Tim Ellis 4.2

      TVOR, the difference is quite clear.

      At 7:32am I said the poll wouldn’t be happy reading. It shows Mr Goff’s expectations of a poll surge on the basis of populism of Winston Peters proportions haven’t eventuated.

      At 7:54am I said that Mr Goff wouldn’t suffer badly. That means he won’t go backwards by a high degree.

      Which part of that is difficult to understand?

  5. Family First are at it again. They are claiming that Police Summary of Facts presented to Court are gospel. Any defence lawyer will tell you that there are often negotiations about the content of these reports and that significant initial allegations can be trivialised so that a guilty plea is obtained. The pressure is always on to reduce the severity of the allegations.

    The compromise that emerges should not be confused with what really happened.

    • BLiP 5.1

      Works both ways – if they know there’s going to be a not guilty plea the summary of facts and significant initial allegations are ramped up to make an even stronger case. But, yeah, absolutely: police summary of facts are generally nothing of the sort.

  6. Pascal's bookie 6

    Micky, from your link:

    “ACT MP John Boscawen says neither he nor Family First would deliberately mislead the public.”

    heh, leaving aside the lolz-worthiness and the Got Tui billboard jokes for a moment.

    What exactly is the relationship between FF and ACT? JohnnyBoss speaks for both.

    • I take it Boscawen and FF are happy to accidentally mislead the public?

      Just checked the Charities website. Family First declared about $250,000 in donations in the past financial year. I wish I could find out who made the donations.

      • Tim Ellis 6.1.1

        Mr Latta’s comments seem to be a major credibility blow to Family First. It’s about time that Mr McCroskie stopped jumping on indefensible cases and misleading to the public the true circumstances just for the sake of pushing his strange barrow.

        • mickysavage


          McCoskie should stop taking these complaints at face value and they maintaining that what he has been told is true.

          • Tim Ellis

            In an unintended way, I think Mr McCroskie has done more to cement the repeal of the s 59 legislation than anybody else. Resorting to hysteria over the case of every supposedly “innocent” parent who only “smacks” their child might help in the short term, but when it is later revealed that every one of these parents was a violent thug who deserved to be in jail, it doesn’t help Mr McCroskie’s case at all.

            I hope we can move on from this silly debate about smacking, and have the police and other authorities deal to the parents who cause real harm to their kids.

            • Tigger

              TE – “It’s about time that Mr McCroskie stopped jumping on indefensible cases and misleading to the public the true circumstances just for the sake of pushing his strange barrow.”

              One suspects you should take your own advice Mr Ellis. Watching you contort yourself over defending Lee the other day was like watching a game of Twister.

            • lprent

              TE: A point on which we absolutely agree. However I think that the police should also keep an eye on some of the people who have gotten prominent on the ‘anti-smacking’ side during the s59a debate. Some of them scare me. They managed to shift my position from not supporting the repeal (on the basis that it wasn’t required) to supporting it (because some peoples attitudes indicated that we needed to remove that defense).

              • Tim Ellis

                LP I think you’re on dangerous ground suggesting the Police should target people who take legitimately held political positions.

                On the smacking debate I didn’t think the initial legislation was necessary, but I don’t think changing the law back to where it was is necessary either. Personally I think the whole debate is quite pointless and well wide of the important issues that politicians should be concerned about. It concerns me that the debate has been hijacked by people on the fringe on both sides and it has been a distraction.

    • felix 6.2

      “Family First” is just one person, isn’t it?

    • prism 6.3

      If its ACT money is the basis of anything they are interested in. I seem to remember the figure of $1 billion in social welfare for Auckland. Now there’s a business opportunity providing services to government.

      BTW possibly nobody read it, but a while ago I said that Bill English had got Family Start going in the 1980s – it is an agency doing very important work with families before birth and into the first years. But I think I wrote the name wrongly as Family First.

  7. prism 7

    Can TE have his own thread where he can bang on about Mr Goff and really get into the researching and analysing of every word of his Nationhood speech? There seem to be some other things happening in the country and the world and it is harder to find the comments on them in Mike when this circular discussion takes place.

    • felix 7.1

      That’s actually an awesome idea. Give him one thread (wonder if anybody else would bother to visit it) and ban him from all others.

      I mean it’d be best if he just started his own blog, but I don’t think that’s likely to happen anytime soon.

    • Tim Ellis 7.2

      Maybe you should get your own thread complaining about my comments prism and asking for me to be banned, since it seems to be a constant theme for you. On the other hand, this is general debate so topics of the day not covered in other threads are supposed to go here.

      • prism 7.2.1

        You are so po-faced Tim. Your debate isn’t general it is particular and it is boring in its endless repetition, on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

        • Tim Ellis

          Well I don’t set out just to entertain you prism. If you don’t like my comments, then here’s a helpful suggestion. Don’t read them.

          • prism

            Troubled Tim – the problem is you take up so much space with your comments that you say I shouldn’t read and that I don’t want to read actually.

        • felix

          Timmy doesn’t like people responding to his comments. He considers it a personal attack.

  8. Pascal's bookie 8

    “I take it Boscawen and FF are happy to accidentally mislead the public?”

    The trick is to take care not to find out whether or not what you wish to be true, is actually true. That way it’s not your fault if it’s a bald faced lie. In fact, I guess, you too become a victim of that lie. A lie without a liar. Huh. Who knew?

    I was away the day they did Critical Theory and stuff, but righties these days would make french philospohers crawl up into a little ball chanting about the happy place.

    • “The trick is to take care not to find out whether or not what you wish to be true”

      The Americans have a very good phrase for this, “Plausible Denial”.

  9. lukas 9

    Will be interesting to see Gareth Morgan get shown up tonight on Close Up, be sure to tune in.

  10. lukas 10

    Can’t tell 🙂 Can just say it will be a good watch.

  11. prism 11

    Household Tip No.14 – Rhubarb. The leaves are poisonous as they contain oxalic acid but the stems are free from this. They need to be cooked, and require some sweetening.

    Household Tip No.15 – Rice bran. This is useful for fires as it continues to burn for a long period. Is also used in Indonesia when cremating bodies.

    (Five journalists reporting on the Timor takeover disappeared and are believed to have received this treatment).

  12. prism 12

    Nine reasons why New Zealand is not Australia
    in leftofthesettingsun.wordpress.com. Interesting, informative, gives perspective.
    capcha – potential !

  13. prism 13

    Shane Ardern continues his bulldozing tactics – having got away with driving a tractor up the hallowed steps of our Parliament, he now is on select committee for Primary Producers which inserted a clause into a Bill to give a private citizen marine rights outside the proper planning procedure. I bet Maori are interested in this colonial claim jumping denied to them at every turn.

    In the USA they talk about redneck ‘good ol’ boys’ who operate as a tight unprincipled group. Surely this is an example of one of ours.

  14. Mach1 14

    Things aren’t looking too good for the Republicans when the Tea party’ polls better than GOP.

  15. Mach1 15

    Household Tip No 16, for perfect scones put the butter in the freezer for 10-15 minutes and then grate into the dry ingredients, gently mix through with minimal rubbing and BINGO, perfect fluffy scones.

  16. toad 16

    Continuing the spirit of Dipton watch, can anyone recall having ever seen Bill English’s taxpayer funded Ford Mondeo in or around Dipton?

    • lprent 16.1

      Yeah. We’re kind of spoiled for choice on topics at present, and don’t have enough time to write *sigh*

      Almost makes you wish that this government was a little more competent.

  17. Swimmer 17

    yes it was parked on their disabled spot.

  18. grumpy 18

    Now we have “battery cows”.

    Why do all the spokesmen for dairy farming have Dutch names?

    • bill brown 18.1

      I don’t know – why do I hear you with a pommie accent?

      • grumpy 18.1.1

        Seriously though, where have all the Kiwi dairy farmers gone?

        You wouldn’t get them within a million miles of a battery cow farm.

        It must be embarrasing for Federated Farmers to have to defend these guys – they aren’t really farmers – just factory operators.

  19. gobsmacked 19

    John Key has just lied to – oops sorry, “inadvertently” misled – Parliament. He denied that his office leaked the Brash report to the media.

    So naturally he will be challenged on this and held to account by the media … no, just kidding.

    • gobsmacked 19.1


      Pete Hodgson has a Question for John Key about Bill English … and so Key runs out of the House, leaving Gerry Brownlee to flounder on his behalf.

  20. roger nome 20

    we definitely need a post on michael laws’ latest trip to crazy town. Just when you thought he couldn’t get any nuttier. does anyone know if he has a degenerative mental illness?


  21. with the recent news regarding the so called smacking bill perhaps the religious nutters will now return to their howling and wailing and leave the running of the country to the elected parliament.
    Surely even fanatics like the Family Fist will now see the light.;
    What is so sad about the whole protest is the enormous amounts of money these people have spent to justify bashing their kids could have housed and cared for a great many underpriviledged children.

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