Open Mike 09/06/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 9th, 2018 - 107 comments
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107 comments on “Open Mike 09/06/2018”

  1. Tamati Tautuhi 1
    9 June 2018 at 6:39 am

    Professor Greg Newbold says “white collar criminals do more damage to society than the gangs” ?

    Yep I would agree as it is the Asian gangs bringing in the methamphetamine into NZ and distributing through our traditional gangs like the Mongrel Mob & the Head Hunters ?

    The profits are then normally washed through the real estate and construction sector ?

    • saveNZ 1.1
      9 June 2018 at 10:44 am

      Yes they do, but white collar crime seems to be legal aka how many of the business roundtable became rich by buying up cheap government assets sold off, how many people are profiting from current assets sell offs and government construction contracts.

      Making the criminal legal is why we have so many lawyers per capita in this country, even more than the UK!

      If you want to screw over people in this country but don’t have the connections to government as per above, no problem, it’s so easy. Just set up a company and then ‘go bankrupt’ owing millions and make poorer people bankrupt and then set up another company and start again… Lucky their are so many bankruptcy lawyers and big 5 who can help the government on behalf of the tax payer paying them big bucks

      … this is not just the big guys people, anyone can do it, even one tradie I had the misfortune to encounter had been bankrupted 4 times leaving big debts, by Price Waterhouse the last one and was even trading under the same name, so was not obvious it was a different company! I rang PWC liquidator and asked why is he still allowed to be in business, and they said, that the public had to lay another complaint… I mean 5 times should be pretty obvious that that person should be in jail, not still on the scene. The liquidators even let him keep his van so he could continue with the poor business practices. It was unbelievable.

      • JanM 1.1.1
        9 June 2018 at 2:00 pm

        If he was simply a tradie, chances are he was being taken to the cleaners by the scoundrels he was subbing to – in recognition of that, state departments can be quite lenient with such people. I know – been there, done that!

    • Ad 1.2
      9 June 2018 at 10:46 am

      What evidence does he provide for this claim?

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1
        9 June 2018 at 12:00 pm

        ‘White-collar crime does a lot more damage than conventional crime’

        IT IS difficult to overstate the scale of the damage caused by so-called white-collar crime.

        If white-collar crime formed part of the backdrop to our banking collapse, then it follows that every citizen of the State is a victim of such crime by way of increased taxes, loss of national sovereignty, wide-ranging youth unemployment, restricted services and life opportunities, and so on.

        Even leaving banking aside, tax evasion and the flouting of the law in such areas as the environment, health and safety, planning, competition and the running of companies, strains public resources, endangers people’s health, reduces the quality of the built environment, puts businesses at risk and rips off consumers on an ongoing basis.

        The Other Kind Of Crime

        White collar crimes costs an estimated $600-750 billion dollars in America or roughly 5% of GDP. This massive cost is more than all other crimes combined. Let me repeat that. White collar crime does more damage to society than all forms of stealing and violence combined. Contrary to the common perception, the most dangerous criminal is not a youth in a hoody, but a middle aged man in a suit. The biggest hot spots for crime are not the ghettoes, but the financial districts. It is not in council estates, but commercial offices that most criminals spend their time.

        There’s actually quite a lot of research out there showing the same thing going back decades. I’ll leave you with this quote:

        Because of the huge sums of money involved, on a strictly financial level corporate crime dwarfs all conventional property offences. Indeed, a single act of corporate crime in a nation can cause more financial damage than all conventional crime in that nation for an entire year, combined (White & Habibis 2005, p. 130). A study in the 1980s showed that “for every dollar taken by conventional crime, about 40 dollars were stolen by criminals wearing suits and ties” (Newbold 2000, p. 44). Money taken from the individual also causes indirect, but very real, damage to people surrounding the victims; “for every person injured by the collapse of a company, ten others – wives, children, creditors and their families – are seriously affected by it” (Charles Sturt, cited in Newbold 2000, p. 45). It also harms economies in general, which affects most everyone in a society (Newbold 2000, p. 45).

        And yet despite all that the politicians focus on the minor stuff. Probably because they get their donations and careers from the white collar criminals.

        • Ad 1.2.1.1
          9 June 2018 at 2:32 pm

          That Irish TImes link didn’t seem to work for me. The other two didn’t describe a comparison of the direct and indirect costs of different kinds of crime, for example between “white collar” and “all others”. A link within the second citation simply went “error 404”.

          It’s fine to claim that in a financial crime affects not just the specific person who is damaged, but that is true of most other crimes as well.

          I would fully agree that financial crime is under-reported and under-policed in New Zealand. And I would agree that the rich afford better lawyers to get away with it more often, because that is what I have seen.

          For an academic of good experience, Greg Newbold needs to be a whole bunch more precise about his claims. I also don’t mind academics having a strong class filter on their claims, so long as they back themselves up.

    • DH 1.3
      9 June 2018 at 11:06 am

      Newbold was in Pare in the ’70s or ’80s, got sent down for drugs IIRC. I read his book, don’t remember much of it now except to recall it wasn’t a bad read.

      I’m not sure I could agree with the statement. IMO the serious damage is done by those who tend to be above the law.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.3.1
        9 June 2018 at 12:01 pm

        IMO the serious damage is done by those who tend to be above the law.

        Yes. The white-collar criminals.

      • OnceWasTim 1.3.2
        9 June 2018 at 12:21 pm

        “The Big Huey”.
        And since then, it’s become more and more about punishment, and less about any type of rehabilitation.
        Even the Honorable Don McKinnon was into rehab in those days assisting with prison debating teams, etc.
        Now its got so bad, we see NGOs having to do even more basic things (such as with literacy and numeracy) which SHOULD be an inherent part of the system

  2. ScottGN 2
    9 June 2018 at 7:50 am

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12066912
    Braunias at his best.
    Personally I’ll be quite pleased if Winston gives some in the cabinet and government a bloody good tool up.

    • Anne 2.1
      9 June 2018 at 9:32 am

      There are two journo commentators not to be missed:

      David Slack “Slack at the Back” (SST) and Steve Braunais. Both of them brilliant.

      I agree about Winston. I hope he shows his coalition partners how to handle the crap coming out of the mouths of their opponents – not just sit there like numpties and take it.

  3. AsleepWhileWalking 3
    9 June 2018 at 7:52 am

    Person status for our natural landmarks (I guess that includes aquifers). What a brilliant idea.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/kiwi-traveller/104553006/why-more-of-new-zealands-natural-treasures-need-person-status

  4. Morrissey 4
    9 June 2018 at 7:59 am

    Propagandists Not Journalists
    Exhibit 1: The ghoulish ISABEL KIRSHNER of the New York Times

    “Jihad Abu Jamous, 30, from Bani Suheila, a village near Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip, set off for the border in a taxi with his wife, Ghadir, and their four children. He didn’t come back. His widow said he had moved toward the fence and was shot in the head. It was not clear whether he was throwing stones at the time.”

    New York Times, “After Gaza Clash, Israel and Palestinians Fight With Videos and Words” April 1, 2018

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/06/08/is-isabel-kershner-saying-its-okay-to-shoot-him-in-the-head-if-he-was-throwing-a-stone/

    Propagandists Not Journalists is compiled by Hector Stoop and presented by Morrissey Breen, for Daisycutter Sports, Inc.

    • venezia 4.1
      9 June 2018 at 9:15 am

      Morrissey…….when the power elites throughout the world collude with the settler colonial project in Palestine, as they have done since 1948, this is an example of how war crimes are rationalised through the corporate media. Killing unarmed protesters and clearly identified medics helping the injured, as has been happening in the last month in the Gaza Strip, are now accepted as the price of allowing the criminal Netanyahu and his far right government in Israel to grab more and more Palestinian land and deny the basic human rights of the lawful owners. Our government need to be making clear and strong statements about this ongoing genocide, and keep repeating it.

  5. AsleepWhileWalking 5
    9 June 2018 at 8:00 am

    Holy crap…someone called Christina won €90,000,000 through Lottoland.

    That’s a record for online gambling.

    • Morrissey 5.1
      9 June 2018 at 8:03 am

      And how much has Lottoland won from the suckers who “play” on it?

      • Ad 5.1.1
        9 June 2018 at 8:20 am

        Being stupid is not a crime.

        Being lucky and a sucker is just an occasional joy for the rest.

        • AB 5.1.1.1
          9 June 2018 at 8:43 am

          “Being stupid is not a crime”
          True, and we’re all fortunate that’s the case.
          Encouraging other people to be stupid for the purpose of making a profit oneself isn’t a crime either.
          So criminality isn’t always the best test of whether something is right or not.

          • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1.1
            9 June 2018 at 12:17 pm

            Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean that it’s right.

            This, of course, is why the RWNJs like deregulation. It makes immoral actions legal.

        • adam 5.1.1.2
          9 June 2018 at 9:21 am

          Worst defence of the vulgarity of lotteries ever…

          Joy is not built on the vain hope of breaking out of poverty.

          • Ad 5.1.1.2.1
            9 June 2018 at 10:48 am

            The left has never understood the pleasure of vice.

            All they can see is the need to exercise power.

            • adam 5.1.1.2.1.1
              9 June 2018 at 11:20 am

              Calling BS on that one. What power, moreover the lack of it. Good God man, what waffle is that?

              If you think that the fallon hope with lottery is a pleasure vice, your understanding of what makes up a pleasure vice, is soft.

              edit: Who is this left you speak of?

            • alwyn 5.1.1.2.1.2
              9 June 2018 at 11:32 am

              Neither have many on the right Ad.
              One of the more outspoken commentators on the stupidity of Lotto is Don Brash. He has always said it is stupid.

              For example
              “I haven’t bought a Lotto ticket, ever. I think most of those gambling activities are really a very regressive form of taxation. They are particularly hard on low-income people, who cherish the myth that they’ll have all their financial woes fixed if they can just win Lotto.”
              http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9161761/Brash-and-the-art-of-parsimony

              I guess that will lead to people who don’t like Brash running out to get their ticket for tonight’s draw. If Don is against it they will want to show that they disagree with him.

              Don is right of course as the odds against winning anything much are ridiculous. That doesn’t stop me buying a ticket whenever it goes over $20 million though. I know the odds but I get some pleasure from the dream.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                9 June 2018 at 12:26 pm

                They are particularly hard on low-income people, who cherish the myth that they’ll have all their financial woes fixed if they can just win Lotto.

                This is actually wrong. IMO, for most low income people buying lotto is the only hope that they have. It’s why lotto sales tend to go up in a recession.

                Employment sure as hell doesn’t work.

            • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2.1.3
              9 June 2018 at 12:19 pm

              BS

              I’m about to have a beer. This is a vice that I enjoy.

              Lotteries are simply ripping people off.

              • alwyn …
                9 June 2018 at 2:16 pm

                That is certainly a spectacularly quick change of heart.
                At 12.19pm you think
                “Lotteries are simply ripping people off”.
                Then by 12.26pm you propose
                “This is actually wrong. IMO, for most low income people buying lotto is the only hope that they have”.

                I am not surprised of course. As I said in my comment
                ” If Don is against it they will want to show that they disagree with him.”
                You, discovering what Don thinks, have immediately flipped your opinion so that you can now take the opposite view to him.
                Sad really. Still I suppose you manage to rationalise this in the deep turgid recesses of your mind.

                • In Vino …
                  9 June 2018 at 4:37 pm

                  The only sad thing is your habit of misinterpreting comments to suit yourself.
                  Draco had no change of heart that I can see. Lotteries ripping people off is not contradictory to Lotteries being a poor but only source of hope to the poor because employment offers even less hope…
                  Putting your thoughts into other people’s words by selective quoting is a sad activity. You need a better pastime, alwyn.

                  • alwyn …
                    9 June 2018 at 6:10 pm

                    ” that I can see”.
                    That’s nice dear.
                    Of course you don’t see anything. As the saying goes
                    “There are none so blind as those who will not see”.
                    That is, of course, a selective quote. It was selected because it describes you perfectly.

                    • In Vino …
                      9 June 2018 at 7:50 pm

                      As expected – total failure to counter the explanation of why Draco had had no change of heart. Instead, shallow, insulting sophistry.
                      Alwyn, you really do need a healthier pastime.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  10 June 2018 at 11:19 am

                  Ah, a RWNJ misrepresenting me – what a surprise.

                  You really are a bad liar.

          • mikes 5.1.1.2.2
            9 June 2018 at 3:44 pm

            Not necessarily a vain hope if you play it right.

            My annual net winnings from playing lotto over the last 4 years: (Have played for longer than that but started doing it properly 4 years ago)

            2015 – $32,624
            2016 – $23,910
            2017 – $51,300
            2018 – $26,337 (so far)

            That’s an average annual net profit of nearly $40,000 per year..

            That’s on an outlay of $126 per week. Which I know is more than most people can afford or are willing to outlay, but if you want to profit you have to spend as much as you can possibly afford. I’m not on a high income but I don’t have a family to worry about and I’m confident enough to spend that much each week even sometimes going 4 weeks or more without winning a cent.

            It’s working so far. I could now play $126 per week for the next 20 years win nothing at all every week for the entire 20 years and would break even. So I look at it as I’m playing for the next 20 years for free.

            • adam 5.1.1.2.2.1
              9 June 2018 at 4:23 pm

              The great majority of people don’t have $126 of disposable income a week to spend.

              Let alone spending weeks going with losing that $126.

              So you think you might just be an outlier on that one? And if you look I said a fallon hope, which no one spotted.

              When I should have said – forlorn hope. Not a vain hope, forlorn.

              • In Vino …
                9 June 2018 at 8:00 pm

                Sorry Adam – too many (ex)English or Language teachers amongst us for that to have gone unnoticed. Had I disagreed, I would be more likely to comment, or more likely, just spell the word correctly when replying.
                Good of you to point out ‘forlorn’ – a word with sad connotations that best describes the plight of the poor. (Sorry – relatively poor, for those righties who pretend that everyone has a fair chance…)

            • Antoine 5.1.1.2.2.2
              9 June 2018 at 11:27 pm

              You must have a system?

              A.

              • In Vino …
                9 June 2018 at 11:45 pm

                I am sure he will sell the system to you if you are silly enough to believe him.

  6. DH 6
    9 June 2018 at 9:25 am

    Games within games….?

    “Barry Soper: Why David Seymour has a point about state housing ”
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12066506

    (There’s a clue in that article for anyone interested)

    • Anne 6.1
      9 June 2018 at 9:47 am

      If you you’re referring to the line;

      State houses were then seen as a stop-gap measure, to tide the tenants over until they found a place of their own.

      Talk about re-writing history. They were not built to be merely a stop-gap measure at all. They were long term family homes where successive generations could bring up their children in a safe and stable environment. It’s true some were able to eventually buy their own homes but many more stayed in those homes for the rest of their lives.

      Soper is either super ignorant or is redefining the truth to fit a certain political bias for the benefit of those who don’t know their history.

      Edit: in fact most of the article is a ‘redefining of the truth’. Most of the tenants were – and I suspect still are – normal stable individuals.

      • DH 6.1.1
        9 June 2018 at 10:01 am

        It was his dig at The Standard Anne. (Who was Prime Minister in 1937?)

        • Anne 6.1.1.1
          9 June 2018 at 5:17 pm

          It was hasty read. Missed that bit. Does that mean he reads The Standard? That’s good to know. I’ll be use every opportunity to ridicule the ignorant piece of

          • Muttonbird 6.1.1.1.1
            9 June 2018 at 5:37 pm

            Anne. The Standard is widely read by political journalists, political scientists, PR people, and politicians ex and current alike, don’t you worry about that!

            This is why it’s important to get your thoughts down here with links whenever you are able and whenever the injustice of the right wing rears it’s ugly head. To make a comment both adds to the voice of social consciousness, and makes a record of your opinion.

            It does make a difference, and contributes to the necessary counter argument to corporate media. I’m talking Hooten, Trevett, Soper, etc.

            • Stunned Mullet 6.1.1.1.1.1
              9 June 2018 at 6:16 pm

              “The Standard is widely read by political journalists, political scientists, PR people, and politicians ex and current alike, don’t you worry about that!”

              😆

              • Anne …
                9 June 2018 at 6:47 pm

                I didn’t realise it. Never mind, I’m not changing my style to satisfy a bunch of mealy mouthed, self entitled, arrogant journos… turned PR acolytes for greedy, even more self entitled, ignorant Nat politicos and their sycophantic support base of trolls and nitwits. 😉

                • Stunned mullet …
                  9 June 2018 at 7:01 pm

                  I don’t think you need to worry about too many politicians and journalists reading the standard Anne .. and if they are it’ll mostly be for the laughs.

          • DH 6.1.1.1.2
            9 June 2018 at 5:54 pm

            That was my take on it Anne, some big egos in the political scene and perhaps an author here is getting up a few noses.

            • Anne 6.1.1.1.2.1
              9 June 2018 at 6:04 pm

              I bet ms is. His posts are always rational and well thought through.

              Btw, I forgot to finish the last sentence @6.1. I. 1. I was trying to think of a really shitty descriptive word that was appropriate for a ‘family friendly’ blog like TS, then got sidetracked. 😈

      • dukeofurl 6.1.2
        9 June 2018 at 10:06 am

        Exactly. Total bullshit to say they werent ‘homes for life’

        Up till the deregulation of the banking sector in the 80s, vast majority of working families werent eligible for a home mortgage as the money was rationed by the banks ( mainly saving banks) – none of this borrowing overseas to fund local residential mortgages.
        You had to be a well established customer to boot and quite substantial deposit ( saved with the bank of course) to show your ability to repay.

        • Anne 6.1.2.1
          9 June 2018 at 5:23 pm

          Soper is just a bitter, twisted clapped-out old journo in the early stages of Dementia.

          • Muttonbird 6.1.2.1.1
            9 June 2018 at 5:46 pm

            +1. I think he’s beginning to find out that his days are numbered and the erratic personal attacks on politicians for the purposes of his own headlines are not going to carry him far into him retirement.

            Watch his young, young wife Heather Duplicity-Allen drop him when his political access finally runs out.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 6.1.3
        9 June 2018 at 11:59 am

        Yeah I take issue with the “stop gap measure”. John Key was raised in a State house.

        People mistakenly believe that this means they were on the bones of their arses. ACTUALLY the state house was offered as a reward for success.

        If our media would do research and shit this would have been made clear long ago.

        • Visubversa 6.1.3.1
          9 June 2018 at 3:45 pm

          Also, a lot of State houses were used for Public Servants on transfer. In the early 1970’s a friend of mine and his family were moved from Welllington to Auckland with the Labour Department (as it was then). They got a state house in GI as part of the transfer package.

      • Tamati Tautuhi 6.1.4
        9 June 2018 at 9:37 pm

        Unfortunately Soper has been diagnosed with a condition where he struggles with the truth and reality, the condition has worsened in recent years.

    • dukeofurl 6.2
      9 June 2018 at 10:10 am

      Soper made a huge blooper some months back when he suggested it was the maori seats ‘ which won it for labour’

      hes been a political commentator for decades and doesnt know how MMP works ( If labour won no maori seats they would just get 7 extra list seats)

    • andrew murray 6.3
      9 June 2018 at 10:18 am

      The only certain ‘unintended consequence’ I can see is that the complicity of the middle classes in creating our class based dystopia has come back to bite them.

      Click to Edit –

    • saveNZ 6.4
      9 June 2018 at 10:29 am

      Whatever the original intention on state houses various things seemed to have gone wrong.

      Firstly thinking selling them off was a good idea.

      Secondly whoever is getting them seems to be pretty arbitrary – had friends who were migrants got a state house in mission bay, and were on $100,000k… couldn’t believe it because even then 20 years ago, it was considered hard to get into a state house and they were not hiding their wages or anything. Then they were allowed to buy the state house at a 10% discount. (Which they didn’t, as they had already left the country after gaining residency in the UK, but left behind their parents in the state house, because they had to be resident for approx 5 years to get citizenship).

      Thirdly, if they have tenants who are P heads in there, there has to be another place to put them once they are evicted, you would think some sort of drug rehab might be a good idea and then some sort of supervised housing for them and their family.

      Fourthly – we need to have real measures to get rid of P, not scams like MethCon.

      Fifthly we need real jobs for people to work in, if we have a plethora of jobs that need government assistance to top up wages in the service industry for example and all over wages in real terms not going up while the cost of living is soaring, is that a win for this country????

      Sixly, we need to decide are we continuing in our low wage economy and driving out our educated youth by having them compete for jobs with people trying to gain residency. Then look at do we want to sully our NZ degrees with some of the questionable courses being put out there…

      • solkta 6.4.1
        9 June 2018 at 12:09 pm

        bloody imgrints.

      • Treetop 6.4.2
        9 June 2018 at 10:13 pm

        The state housing stock is so out of proportion when it comes to homes per capita. I think it is at a 1949 figure.

        This is the fault of the government in the last 20 years. Immigration in the last decade has not helped the situation, it is not an immigrants fault.

        Non residents and those who have not been resident for 3 years have had an entitlement to purchase an existing home. There is more than enough land in NZ to do a new build.

        Instead homes are having to be built because non residents and those having residency for less than 3 years were able to compete against NZ citizens and committed residents for an existing home.

        When it comes to student numbers the rental situation is temporary.

        What does the government need to do to accelerate building affordable homes for people who are fully committed to the country?

        1937 was a vintage year for building homes and many more
        glorious years followed. NZ can do it again.

    • Bearded Git 6.5
      9 June 2018 at 10:44 am

      He got paid to write that?

      • DH 6.5.1
        9 June 2018 at 11:16 am

        The clue was in this paragraph here;

        “It’s certainly a change from their attitude over the past three years when 300 state house tenants were shown the door for methamphetamine-related transgressions, ironically the same number of curious people who traipsed through the first state house in Wellington way back in 1937 after the Prime Minister of the time Mickey Savage struggled through the door with a dining table”

        I had a few thoughts; that he’s been reading The Standard so much he’s unconsciously typed Mickey Savage instead of Michael Joseph Savage.. or is he having a sly dig at one the authors here. Was it deliberate or accidental?

        • AsleepWhileWalking 6.5.1.1
          9 June 2018 at 12:11 pm

          He is just doing that fau familiarity thing commentors do when they are implying a close insider knowledge, whilst simultaneously serving a backhander to the object of commentary. (“Struggle” suggestive of not being used to manual labour, instead of a humble action taken by a great man).

          Clue solved. Author is a pompous ass.

    • McFlock 6.6
      9 June 2018 at 5:47 pm

      The Big Lie in Soper’s article:

      State houses were then seen as a stop-gap measure, to tide the tenants over until they found a place of their own.

      The first state house was rented for almost 15 years then purchased by its first tenant, then sold back to the state thirty years after that when the tenants/oweners died. It also went to a council employee, a tram driver, because in those days regular workers deserved a decent home.

      Soper is trying to paint a home for life as a temporary stop-gap. Rewriting history.

  8. saveNZ 8
    9 June 2018 at 10:35 am

    Just an example of where our county is at. Yesterday a friend of mine was walking along Queen ST in Auckland. The All blacks were at the ASB Bank as some sort of promotion, meanwhile at the intersection of that road, a homeless man?? was being worked on by paramedics… is that really the brighter future that we were all promised, big winners and quite a lot of big losers?

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1
      9 June 2018 at 12:33 pm

      is that really the brighter future that we were all promised, big winners and quite a lot of big losers?

      Yes it was.

  9. Brigid 9
    9 June 2018 at 10:55 am

    BREAKING
    Deep rooted legumes cause pollution

    According to some boffhead on Country Life on RNZ this morning, nitrogen pollution is caused by those naughty nitrogen fixing plants clover and gorse.
    Wanker

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018648442

    • Cinny 9.1
      9 June 2018 at 11:12 am

      Fun fact… cannabis loves nitrogen.

      I wonder if dairy was scrapped for medicinal marijuana, just how fast the land and water would be re-balanced…hmmmmm

    • bwaghorn 9.2
      9 June 2018 at 1:36 pm

      So you only accept science that’s suits your bias?

      • Brigid 9.2.1
        10 June 2018 at 1:42 pm

        Listen to the link.
        He posits that legumes are a cause of nitrogen pollution.
        He’s not referring top any scientific report that supports that.
        Note that he does not suggest any other cause of Nitrogen pollution, like extreme stocking rates, or the application of nitrogen to the soil.

        If legumes are a cause of pollution these days, why was Nitrogen pollution not a problem 80 years ago when clover was first widely used a a pasture plant?

        So what science are you referring to that you suggest suits my bias?
        What is my bias?

    • Adrian 9.3
      9 June 2018 at 4:00 pm

      Yeah, those fucking scientists what the fuck would they know ?.
      Much better to pull to pull uninformed ignorance out of your arse than go by researched facts any day.
      If its good enough for the Donald its good enough for you,eh.

    • Rosemary McDonald 9.4
      9 June 2018 at 9:26 pm

      Methinks the sciencey type got his mucking furds wuddled due to the stress of trying to sound casual under pressure.
      WE all know what he was trying to say…so go easy, eh?

      It was a very good piece about an excellent environmental initiative involving refugees from Lincoln.

      Recommended.

  10. adam 10
    9 June 2018 at 11:22 am

    I wonder if John Stewart will come to little old NZ on his new comedy tour?

    p.s. – Stewart calls BS on Russia hysteria.

    • McFlock 10.1
      9 June 2018 at 2:45 pm

      Well the actual clip would be nice, rather than some fucker selectively quoting some other fucker’s selective quotes and paraphrasing of what the original fucker said.

      Reminds me of the time I read a book chapter that argued with a four page peer reviewed article about one guy’s single sentence in a two page opinion piece in a trade advertising magazine. Mountains out of molehills.

      • adam 10.1.1
        9 June 2018 at 4:09 pm

        You going to have to wait for the comedy central special.

        • McFlock 10.1.1.1
          9 June 2018 at 4:26 pm

          Don’t get me wrong, Stewart’s pretty good at laying into the entire partisanship hypocrisy.

          But you know these youtube vids: someone tags it as “A eviscerates/pwns/demolishes B”, and it turns out that A said something either not very convincing or merely not completely praiseworthy of B, if anything at all. And those moments of your life are now gone.

  11. alwyn 11
    9 June 2018 at 11:44 am

    As is usual the DomPost has an article applauding Martinborough getting rid of plastic bags in Supermarkets.
    The Dom does this in a paper that is home delivered wrapped in not one but two plastic bags. Each of them is made of much thicker plastic than a shopping bag. They are also not usable as bin liners which is what I do with my grocery bags.
    Thus they campaign for scrapping multi use bags while they use multiple single use bags to deliver their paper each day.
    They are as hypocritical as their local MP. Just like Grant they want one law for themselves and another for everyone else. Not the same law of course. In Grant’s case it is selling access to the Minister of Finance. I think I should start saving up the Dom wrapping plastic and deliver it back to them, dropping it on the floor of their office foyer, once a week.
    Anyone willing to join in?
    I will only be doing it for a couple more weeks though. The only reason I am getting the paper is that they are giving it away free and that only lasts a month.

    • Gabby 11.1
      9 June 2018 at 1:44 pm

      Write them a letter wally.

      • alwyn 11.1.1
        9 June 2018 at 2:06 pm

        “Write them a letter”?
        What on earth do you think that is going to accomplish? You surely don’t believe that they would publish it. It would be dumped straight into the rubbish bin and I would simply have wasted the cost of the stamp.
        No, returning the plastic to the paper will force them to do something about it. Even if that is only sweeping it up and dumping it. If a number of people did the same thing they might stop creating the rubbish in the first place. It would mean they had to put the paper in the letterbox, at least on wet days, but so what?

        • ScottGN 11.1.1.1
          9 June 2018 at 6:38 pm

          It’s become a bit of a thing in the UK. Shoppers unwrapping all the stuff they’ve bought at the supermarket and leaving the mountains of plastic behind in the trolleys.
          https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-43559636

          • In Vino 11.1.1.1.1
            9 June 2018 at 11:29 pm

            But there is alwyn taking his usual arrogant and ‘superior’ attitude; deliberately misunderstanding the sarcastic nature of Gabby’s instruction (do you really need a sarc tag every time, alwyn?) and then flooding the Ethernet with more garbage. Alwyn – you need a healthier pastime.

  12. saveNZ 12
    9 June 2018 at 12:21 pm

    … a great idea! “I think I should start saving up the Dom wrapping plastic and deliver it back to them, dropping it on the floor of their office foyer, once a week.
    Anyone willing to join in?”

  13. Herodotus 13
    9 June 2018 at 1:20 pm

    REALLY we read this
    Especially given todays environment, with Fonterra’s PR advertising campaign to show the +ve side of farming and the M.Bovis issue and the threat to our economy.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/104382640/waikato-councils-take-hard-line-on-truckies-illegally-dumping-stock-effluent
    Others are also worried effluent discarded on roads could hinder efforts to stop Mycoplasma bovis from spreading in the region.
    But a spokesperson from stock transportation firm Waitoa Haulage said there weren’t enough effluent dumping stations, not only in the Matamata-Piako district but throughout New Zealand
    “We have been promised more (dumping stations) time and time again, but they were never delivered.”
    Not a behaviour to gain support of the masses

  14. chris73 14
    9 June 2018 at 1:21 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104584553/church-withholds-60000-raised-to-help-poisoned-waikato-family

    “An email from Bishop Joseph said the rest of the money would be put in a a separate account, not to be released without his permission, according to reports.”

    Not being big on religion I don’t know why they’d do this but, on the face of it, its certainly not a good look

    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1
      9 June 2018 at 2:20 pm

      If you’re doing business with a religious son-of-a-bitch, get it in writing. His word isn’t worth shit. Not with the good lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal.

      Frank Zappa.

      Be good to hear the bishop’s story.

    • Tamati Tautuhi 14.2
      9 June 2018 at 9:45 pm

      Some of the churches here in NZ have not been particularly community orientated enough said.

  15. Muttonbird 15
    9 June 2018 at 5:53 pm

    Anyone know when the polls close in Northcote? Who of any significance will be rushing to the Birkenhead booths at this time of night?

    • alwyn 15.1
      9 June 2018 at 6:29 pm

      “when the polls close in Northcote”.
      At the same time as every other Parliamentary election in New Zealand.
      7:00 pm.
      If you live there and haven’t voted you really will have to get your skates on.

  16. Wow 16
    9 June 2018 at 6:20 pm

    Most days I still come on here and scan the recent comments for the crass logo…

    • McFlock 17.1
      9 June 2018 at 6:47 pm

      who uses that, here?

      • Muttonbird 17.1.1
        9 June 2018 at 6:49 pm

        Psycho Milt. Wow seems to be a fan.

        • McFlock 17.1.1.1
          9 June 2018 at 6:53 pm

          Ah, true.

          Yeah, I had a lot of time for PM, too. Frequently disagreed, often agreed, and if he got the wrong end of something he owned it. The ban was a damn shame.

  18. In Vino 18
    9 June 2018 at 8:50 pm

    +1 In reply to McFlock at 17.1.1.1
    Thought I pressed reply, but got a new number.

  19. Ad 19
    9 June 2018 at 10:31 pm

    Bit sorry for the French team tonight.

    It was only when one of their got sinbinned that the All Blacks got three tries in fast order.

    For at least the first two thirds of the game the packs were about even, and for the first half the territory was pretty even. Last thirty minutes was a disaster.

    Finally good to see Auckland’s public transport system actually work well for once; the trains actually worked on time, and most of the City’s buses were pressed into service. It worked.

    It’s well time the All Blacks lost, for the good of the game, and Dunedin would be the right place to see it happen.

    • chris73 19.1
      9 June 2018 at 10:52 pm

      “It’s well time the All Blacks lost, for the good of the game, and Dunedin would be the right place to see it happen.”

      No it would not, the ABs should only lose when the opposition play better, such as not that long ago

      http://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2017/oct/21/australia-v-new-zealand-third-bledisloe-cup-test-live

    • CHCOff 19.2
      9 June 2018 at 11:58 pm

      The All BLacks have not been in the national interest for quite some time, it has all jumped the shark somewhat and become delusional. In these increasingly unsecure times, NZ rugby has become a increasing security liability, estranging traditional relations among other things.

      But there is no sensible oversight for such things in modern New Zealand.

  20. In Vino 20
    10 June 2018 at 12:02 am

    Well, Commentators both agreed that the Yellow card was unjustified. The unjustified Yellow card (especially when Sam Cane did more to earn one later on, but nothing happened) changed the course of the game by upsetting the near-balance.
    Tonight’s win was more a cause for guilt than rejoicing.
    NZ has to be careful. NZ is the biggest country in the world where rugby is the main winter sport. Most other countries – Rugby needs to work bloody hard to even make itself significant.
    Many others around the world still believe France was robbed in the last World Cup final.
    Tonight’s game did NZ and Rugby NO GOOD AT ALL.
    But this comment is for those silly enough to care.

  21. eco maori 21
    10 June 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Some music Eco Maori listen to back in the day link below

    https://youtu.be/VlXcF0WwFT

    Ka kite ano

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