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Open mike 09/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:55 am, August 9th, 2014 - 61 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

61 comments on “Open mike 09/08/2014 ”

  1. Jepenseque 1

    David Parker has to be schooled on kiwisaver taxation by a herald reader..

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=11306195

    Two of Labours biggest polices CGT and NZ Power have been announced for years but have no detail as to how they would work or what the financial implications are. Parker does not fill me with confidence in the way that Cullen did, even if i disagreed with cullens policies.

    cheers

    • Murray Olsen 1.1

      Thanks for that valuable information. Would you suggest Bill English as a better manager of the country’s finances? Your opinion is valuable to us.

  2. kim hill on pot on nat-rad..

    • bad12 2.1

      Via Bhong or Spliff???…

    • it’s a trainwreck of an interview..

      ..the best-moment of neither..

      • bad12 2.2.1

        Kim tho did deny that She had smoked a joint this morning, perhaps She reads the Standard in between the slicing and dicing,

        i thought it was a good interview, Hill never leaves a listener wondering about that unasked question, and the bloke suffering the inquisition handled it well up to the point where he floundered when She skewered Him over the assertion that legal Marijuana will lower P use,

        i haven’t got a debate about that assertion either way, but, the bloke didn’t have the facts at hand so as to be able to elucidate this assertion on the radio, and Kim being Kim couldn’t resist giving the knife a bit of a twist,

        The push for decriminalization needs be kept within the ‘provable’ boundaries, expanding into areas, such as occurred in this interview, without having at hand the provable stats/science simply gives the opponents, and, i don’t believe Kim Hill to be one of these, a point to exploit…

  3. tricledrown 3

    What rubbish Philip you are to emotionally attached to have balanced view it was good journalism
    where Kim Played the devils advocate and allowed the interviewee to explain his point of view and evidence toward!

    • i am ’emotionally attached’ to neither kim hill nor arthur baysting..

      ..and baysting made a poor shot..using poor arguments..

      ..(the arguments for legalisation/regulation/taxation are the most potent/rational/shown to work well..)

      ..tho’ baystings argument that where america goes on this we do too..did stand up..

      ..and wasn’t one i had heard advanced before..

      • Once Was Tim 3.1.1

        no Phil …. you’re emotionally attached to your addictions/obsessions.
        I commend you in your recovery of what’s probably the least harmful of most of them. (Pure heroin wasn’t actually that bad taken in moderation – I mean …. they used to put it in cough medcine and some of the oldest people on Earth were taken of its effects)
        It’s just that people get pissed off sometimes with your holier-than-thou.
        You sound like an unintelligent Hanmer recovery-agent of the 90’s thats been 13th stepped.
        FFS! Give it up already and go along with a vibe that’s a little more moderate – the plebs can’t cope with extremism.
        Otherwise you’ll forever live with regret and a shitload of talent wasted

        • phillip ure 3.1.1.1

          so..advocating legalising/regulating/taxing cannabis is ‘holier than thou’..’extremism’..?..

          ..and you’ve gone thru a few gorilla-sized smack-withdrawals..?..have you..?

          ..to reach yr ‘least harmful’ conclusions on heroin..?

          ..and i think those advocating /arresting/imprisonment for what is a healing herb/salve..

          ..are the fucken ‘extremists’..

  4. karol 4

    Just tweeted by Metiria while waiting for the minor leaders debate on The Nation:

    I’m at @TheNationTV3 getting ready for the leaders debate. Neither Jamie or Colin would sit next me. But Hone did.

    Are those ACT & Conservative guys actually separatists?

    • David H 4.1

      Let the fireworks begin. This is going to be good….

    • David H 4.2

      @Karol you should send back… “saves you from sitting in a draft”

      • bad12 4.2.1

        Lolz, the looks passing between Hone and Metiria as ACT’s Whyte babbles is priceless…

        • mickysavage 4.2.1.1

          The film is interesting. Whyte is taking a beating and Peters is showing his innate ability to seize the moment!

          • phillip ure 4.2.1.1.1

            whyte got monstered..

            (and no questions on moon-landing/chem trails..?..

            ..i’m disappointed..)

            ..will whyte go home and assume an (angry) ‘the thinker’-pose…?

            ..you’d think..?

          • bad12 4.2.1.1.2

            My problem with Winston MS is the snake-oil, and, it sounded increasingly so this morning, of NZFirst is not telling who it will support after the election,

            This puts Peters in the same camp as Flavell from the fast nearing extinction Maori Party, while Winston is making all the right noises that give the impression that He is leaning left, can any of us be sure that is the NZFirst intention,

            My answer to that query is of course one big NO, therefor i cannot have anything nice to say about Peters and NZFirst,

            The equation in my mind remains then this: with the ‘tactical vote’ from 2011 having departed, and, Colon’s conservatives yapping at their heels in a perfect portrayal of the dog pack having suffered a mass infection of distemper, NZFirst is a 50/50 proposition as far as regaining seats in the 2014 Parliament goes,

            Should NZFirst come out on the up side of the above equation it is then a 50/50 proposition that Peters will take NZFirst into a coalition of the left,

            Thus my advice to any left leaning people who seek such advice would be NOT to vote for NZFirst when seeking to change the Government,

            The best result for the left, and, we really have to have a deep self examination to ask if you really are ‘the left’, would be for Colon Craig to yap away at Winston’s vote to such an extent in election 2014 that the Colonic’s pull NZFirst down below the 5% while only gaining 3.5% of the vote themselves

            • weka 4.2.1.1.2.1

              “Thus my advice to any left leaning people who seek such advice would be NOT to vote for NZFirst when seeking to change the Government,”

              +1. This really needs to be hammered home.

              • bad12

                PS, if my ‘best result’ were to eventuate at the 2014 election as expounded by my last paragraph above, it could then be said that Winston will have suffered a Colonostrophy, (the insane cousin of a cataclysmic catastrophe)…

          • Clemgeopin 4.2.1.1.3

            For me the winners were in this order:

            1. Hone
            2. Turei
            3. Peters
            4. Craig
            5. Flavel
            6. Whyte
            7. Dunne
            • Bearded Git 4.2.1.1.3.1

              Didn’t see it but I like that list Clem!

            • karol 4.2.1.1.3.2

              In today’s debate, I’d put Hone, Turei and Peters on #1 equal (no I’m not a Peters fan, and am not recommending lefties vote for him).

              Peters was able to respond quickly to interjections and make his points.

              I loved Turei’s repeated use of the phrase “National’s pollution economy”, and (contrary to what Sabin & Edwards judged) I liked her use of the hand to show Craig was constantly trying to talk over her. She needed to do that because the male voices can drown out her more female voice – she hasn’t cultivated a deeper Thatcher-style voice.

              Whyte also used the phrase I’ve seen on some ACT billboards “green tape” – trying to discredit the Greens – interesting.

              • bad12

                i had a laugh out loud moment when i was thinking of the criticism of Mets for holding up Her hand in an effort to silence the interjecting ‘wing-nuts’,

                What is needed i thought is an electrified dog collar operated off of a computer program which delivered an electric shock, say at the severity of a one wire cow fence on a dairy farm, to those who interjected while another was making a point,

                Lolz my latent cruelty is exposed, the same result of course could be achieved by a technician only turning on the microphone of each politician in turn as they were invited to speak,

                The Primitives at the TV networks should catch up with what is possible via technology in our modern world…

                • yeshe

                  Thought Metiria was warm and powerful; loved her growing strength.

                  But I was deeply alarmed by the panel’s comments after the debate re. Greens discussing possible accomms with National if Labour fails to get enough of the vote .. the Green card was mentioned as something National would support.

                  Any thoughts on this Bad, Karol ? Thanks

                  • karol

                    My thoughts on that are in my post. Don’t get sucked into the Sabin spin.

                  • bad12

                    Seriously yeshe, Mets on that program gave not the slightest hint that any accommodation with National could or would occur,

                    That i know of, during th current term of Parliament and the short time since the Parliament has risen to attend to the election i have not heard such an intimation form anywhere across the spectrum, excepting today, that alludes to a Green/National accommodation,

                    Feel free to correct me if i err here on this matter, but, i should imagine that should the Green Party ever enter some formal accommodation with National that essentially propped it up allowing them to govern the left of the Party would simply walk away in their droves,

                    My view is that this view put forward on the Nation this morning is simply ‘wingnut spin’ the usual underhanded tactics being brought into play where the right has no real counter to the Green Parties message and thus must play the game of divide and rule,

                    i did tho notice Bryce whats-his-face mention the possibility of what i discuss in my comment above that Colons Conservatives could possibly take enough vote off of NZFirst so as to drag the latter party below the 5% requirement while not attaining the 5% themselves,

                    Obviously it wasn’t part of the TV3 script to have such a view aired so Bryce was simply ignored…

                    • yeshe

                      Thx Bad .. I agree with all you have written. It certainly didn’t come from Mets herself .. but I wanted to check the spin on it. Will listen in again in the morning .. thx again Bad.

            • Murray Olsen 4.2.1.1.3.3
              1. Hone
              2. Metiria
              3. Winnie
              4. Te Ureroa
              5. Hair: not the musical
              6. Colon
              7. Jamie Whyte Power

              Hone and Metiria were the only ones who really came out of it at all well.

    • Hami Shearlie 4.3

      LOL – Maybe they thought that Meteria would slap them down with “the hand”! – She did very well I thought, putting the two oddfellows in their place!!

  5. Bearded Git 5

    Reminding all Standardistas that voting starts in 25 days on 3rd September. Advance Votes are as easy to cast as a vote on the 20th. The best way to get rid of Key is:

    Green Party Supporters-Party Vote Green
    Labour Party Supporters-Party Vote Labour
    Internet-Mana Supporters-Party Vote Internet-Mana

    Te Tai Tokerau Constituency
    Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote Mana-Hone Harawira

    Epsom Constituency
    Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote National-Paul Goldsmith

    East Coast Bays Constituency
    Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote National-Murray McCully

    Ohariu Constituency
    Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote Labour-Virginia Andersen

    • Tiger Mountain 5.1

      this list should be displayed everywhere ’Git to remind people, and add Annette Sykes Waiariki.

    • Lanthanide 5.2

      Personally I’d replace the word “Constituency” with “Electorate”. No one really thinks of themselves as being in the “Epsom Constituency”, but they would think of themselves as being in the “Epsom Electorate”.

      Also a final line:
      “All other electorates: candidate vote your preferred candidate”.

    • Clemgeopin 5.3

      You said : “In Ohariu
      Green, Labour and Internet-Mana supporters Candidate Vote Labour-Virginia Andersen”

      I agree with your other views, EXCEPT for Ohariu, the PRIMARY goal should be to kick Dunne out. Therefore deciding to vote for Virginia Andersen may or may not be strategically the correct call at this early stage. It is better to see what the media polls are indicating before making up one’s mind.

      If Hudson of Nats is leading in the pre polls followed by Dunne and then Labour’s Andersen, then it would be safer/wiser to vote for the Nat candidate.

      If Dunne is leading in the pre polls followed by Hudson and then Labour’s Andersen, then too it would be safer to vote for the Nat candidate.

      If Andersen is coming in first or second in relation to Dunne, then definitely vote for her.

      If it was Hudson, then Andersen then Dunne, that is tricky! What then??

      I think the relative position of Hudson, Dunne and Andersen in the media pre polls and the internal party polls are crucial to know how the strategic voting should go in order to defeat the nauseating neanderthal hairdo Dunne and deprive the nasty hash-Key Nats another cheap coalition partner, in my opinion.

      • The Ohariu situation might seem a bit up in the air – especially after Brett Hudson did surprisingly well in the Campbell Live totally unscientific lolly poll (Ginny and Dunne were pretty much neck-and-neck).

        But given John Key’s unsubtle hints I doubt we’re going to see much of Hudson beyond a few token hoardings and going through the motions at candidate meetings. Historically the National supporters of Ohariu have known what to do to ensure their team gets in – so I’d say at this stage (and I am admittedly biased) voting for Andersen is the way to go for the left.

        • bad12 5.3.1.1

          Stephanie, totally disagree with you there, a time to retire dunne campaign would be the best option for both Labour and the Greens to be running in Ohariu,

          Simply pointing out that Dunne is not the best look for Ohariu because,(insert any reason), and then, saying even tho i do not like National i think Hudson would be better than Dunne is more likely to convince Dunne voters to abandon Him,

          Labour i believe cannot win Ohariu, Charles Chauval was way higher profile than the current Labour candidate and He couldn’t and it simply becomes ego politics to think the Labour candidate can,

          Chauval actually lost votes against the other’s in the 2011 contest, only a couple of hundred votes mind you compared to His previous effort but lose them He did,

          There is nothing wrong with the Labour candidate campaigning hard in Ohariu, what needs to happen is a parallel campaign which focuses upon retiring Dunne and promoting the National Party candidate,

          IF you have the feet on the ground over there that could letter box stuff pamphlets in the vein of retire Dunne, especially in the NEW parts of that electorate where there is no past history of voting for Him, (and He lost the lollipop poll bigtime in), and you need pamphlets printing holler at me and i will print you off how many you need,

          Basic black and white minimal message, retire Dunne ,Hudson is a better choice into the letterboxes in the new parts of the electorate might just do Dunne…

          • Stephanie Rodgers 5.3.1.1.1

            There are a few problems with your suggested approach, bad. The first is obviously that Peter Dunne is not going to retire of his own free will. Take that with the fact that National are well aware they’ll need their micro-party supporters if they want a third term, and have signalled this to their supporters, and most will probably split-vote Dunne/National as they consistently have before.

            Given this, Brett Hudson is probably going to go to great lengths to play down his appeal as an electorate candidate, much like Paul Goldsmith in Epsom.

            Outright negative campaigning of the kind you suggest is only going to blow up in the your own face. Look at the Exclusive Brethren anti-Green stuff from 2005 – there are many, many people who would actually agree with the nasty stuff that was said about Labour and the Greens, but didn’t like people being vicious about it.

            Then there’s that whole electoral finance law which would rule out aggressively promoting another party’s candidate.

            As to your comments about our candidate: Ginny is campaigning tremendously hard and building a great profile in the electorate, and given the issues of asset sales, the GCSB law, Dunne’s disgrace as a Minister and people getting more and more fed up with shady wink-wink electorate deals, I firmly believe Ohariu is winnable for Labour.

            • bad12 5.3.1.1.1.1

              Yawn, thanks for that Stephanie, i will sleep well in my bed tonight knowing Peter Dunne will win Ohariu in election 2014…

              • If you like to pre-judge things based on approximately no actual relevant information, you may sleep how you wish.

                As soon as any concrete information comes out showing that Brett Hudson is going to do any better than Katrina Shanks, who had better profile and apparently strict orders not to win, there might be a point in having the discussion about strategic voting options in Ohariu.

                But until that information exists your negativity is unnecessary and mean-spirited.

                • bad12

                  If there were evidence of any overt swing away from the current Government and toward Labour i would tend to give your views some credence,

                  Nationally there is no such evidence and you yourself admit that you are running blind,

                  The only evidence i have to point out my belief that your candidate is unlikely to be able to take Ohariu is in fact the past two elections when the very high profile Charles Chavaul failed to dislodge Dunne,

                  The gap between Charles and Dunne actually widened from 2008 to 2011, only by a few hundred votes mind you, but, widen it did,

                  2008, Dunne v Chavaul, majority Dunne 1006,
                  2011 Dunne V Chavaul, majority Dunne 1392,

                  Far from being negative i am a realist, a pragmatic realist at that, what needs to happen in that electorate for a Labour candidate to retire Dunne is for the Green Party to convince its Party Voters to vote for the Labour electorate candidate,

                  Any Green Party members residing in Ohariu who have thus far subjected themselves to this debate, my admiration of your tenacity knows no bounds and i would advise even if as you do so oxygen starvation would have to be suffered that you Party Vote for the Labour candidate in Ohariu,

                  i would also hope that the Ohariu electorate candidate for the Green Party as they canvas the electorate and identify Green Voters give the same advice as above to the Green Party voters they identify in the Ohariu electorate,

                  To a certain extent Stephanie my ambivalence is probably more toward you, having debated befor with you i have serious questions as to the underlying attitude, the driving force if you will of many within the Labour Party,

                  This attitude, epitomized in a recent debate on ‘decriminalizing abortion’ where you proposed that ”abortion might be a solution to child poverty” to me reeks of an attitude where eugenics would be the next step toward the slippery slope,

                  i have to wonder if such an attitude expressed by you in that debate is simply your personal attitude or does such have deep seated roots in the party…

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Somewhere, Labour will have these useful voting statistics from the electorate: non Labour party voters who nonetheless supported Charles Chauvel in the electorate vote.

                    The new candidate can be expected to lost 1/2 to 3/4 of those on his opening run, simply through reduced name recognition/unfamiliarity.

                    Also we should factor in that Chauvel was a senior Labour MP while running in the electorate. The new candidate does not have such prominence.

                    As such, the ‘majority mountain’ the new Labour candidate needs to climb is probably more around 2500 than around 1300. Defeating a majority of that size is certainly possible, but would require a sharp, distinct swing in voter sentiment in the electorate. If it happened, the outcome would likely be a Labour win of around 1000 votes or less.

                    IMO, Dunne hasn’t done anywhere near enough to irritate his electorate for this to occur.

                    i have to wonder if such an attitude expressed by you in that debate is simply your personal attitude or does such have deep seated roots in the party…

                    It’s one of several significant disconnects in Labour Party thinking and values which the public generally dislikes eg how a baby is viewed and valued and advocated for and resources spent on 5 months before birth compared to when at birth and immediately afterwards.

                  • This attitude, epitomized in a recent debate on ‘decriminalizing abortion’ where you proposed that ”abortion might be a solution to child poverty” to me reeks of an attitude where eugenics would be the next step toward the slippery slope,

                    Wow, you better back that shit up, mate.

                    And learn to spell “Chauvel” if you’re going to profess to expertise on my electorate.

            • Clemgeopin 5.3.1.1.1.2

              I have a feeling your loyalty is coming in the way of prudent thinking.
              What are the INTERNAL polls conducted independently telling you? It is important to act based on these as well as the pre-election local electoral media polls.

              • Bearded Git

                mmmm I’m listening to this bad/Clem/Steph. All good points.

                At the moment I’m inclined to leave the tactical voting recommendations as above but will watch events…..events my dear boy…

                • Clemgeopin

                  Yes, we can only put our ideas around for voters to read and discuss, spread the word and vote according to what they think is best for them in the end.

                  But not expressing a view, however stupid it might look for some, is not the best thing to do anyway.

                  So, Bearded Git, thanks!

              • I have seen no internal polls. Which is why I think it’s far too early to throw in the towel.

                As to my bias, I’ve acknowledged it – but I also haven’t said anything which isn’t factual: Dunne is still running but has suffered major setbacks in the last term; John Key has made his wishes very clear; Ginny Andersen is a strong candidate for Labour; and we have no serious polling data to inform any kind of strategic voting approach.

                If I had access to internal polling on this I can assure you I wouldn’t need you to tell me to look at it. 🙄

  6. Draco T Bastard 6

    IBM Develops a New Chip That Functions Like a Brain

    The chip’s electronic “neurons” are able to signal others when a type of data — light, for example — passes a certain threshold. Working in parallel, the neurons begin to organize the data into patterns suggesting the light is growing brighter, or changing color or shape.

    It’s still very slow but does seem to be showing potential similar to the way the first integrated circuits did. IMO, The most interesting point about it though is:

    IBM’s research was funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, a research arm of the Pentagon, under a program called Systems of Neuromorphic Adaptive Plastic Scalable Electronics, or SyNapse. According to Gill Pratt, the program manager, the agency is pursuing twin goals in its effort to design ultralow-power biological processors.

    The US government isn’t waiting around for the free-market to provide but are getting stuck in and picking and funding winners. They’ve been extremely successful at it over the last few decades. In fact, the US government has been far more successful at it than any private actor but their system means that the private actors still get all the monetary benefits of the governments production of winners.

    Oh, and a few of our students set a record. Now just imagine what we could do if our government got in behind our innovators the way that the US government gets in behind theirs.

  7. a few more actual brains functioning like problem solving free thinking machines rather than compliance systems would be good too DTB

  8. Paul 8

    The top 4 stories on the Herald online at the moment are all crime based.
    The cynic in me wonders whether this is part of an agenda of the editor and management…to point us all in favour of parties tough on crime,..
    No issues to do with the election…like poverty, education, the environment.

    • Weepus beard 8.1

      Could backfire. I know I see it as actual evidence that violent crime is worse than ever under the current government and that this is a direct result of irresponsible social policy.

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    The little seed library that could … get busted by a state ag department

    The intent was never to shut down the program, Samantha Krepps, press secretary for the state Department of Agriculture, told the Cumberland County Sentinel. “This was accepted as a realistic solution. As a regulatory agency, it is our charge to protect commerce, and also protect the library from any liabilities.”

    The terrorism mentioned in the article is happening – it’s being carried out by Monsanto and other companies that are trying very hard to stop people from growing their own food because they own the patents to the DNA.

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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Appointments made to Defence Expert Review Group
    Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today the establishment of an Expert Review Group to review a number of aspects of the New Zealand Defence Force’s (NZDF) structure, information management and record-keeping processes.  The Expert Review Group’s work arises out of the first recommendation from the Report of the Government’s Inquiry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • No active community cases of COVID-19
    There are no active community cases of COVID-19 remaining in the country after the last people from the recent outbreak have recovered from the virus, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “This is a big milestone. New Zealanders have once again through their collective actions squashed the virus. The systems ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Clean energy upgrade for more public buildings
    More public buildings will be supported by the Government to upgrade to run on clean energy, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. Minister Shaw announced that Lincoln and Auckland universities will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to replace fossil fuel boilers. Southern, Taranaki, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Schools back donations scheme for the second year
    More schools have opted in to the donations scheme for 2021, compared to 2020 when the scheme was introduced. “The families of more than 447,000 students will be better off next year, with 94% of eligible schools and kura opting into the scheme,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago