Open Mike 10/05/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 10th, 2018 - 42 comments
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42 comments on “Open Mike 10/05/2018”

  1. Jenny 1

    The tragic soul sickness of the Assad apologist.

    How Right Wing Conspiracy Theorists and Fascists twist the truth

    After the tragedy in Parkland – like after the tragedies in Las Vegas, Orlando and Sandy Hook, New Jersey – amateur sleuths on Reddit, Twitter and WordPress questioned the stories of those who publicly grieved. They called the victims “fakers,” political operatives, employees of a “deep state” bent on disarming Americans.

    The torment caused by these conspiracy theories is at the heart of a lawsuit filed last month by three parents whose children died in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. They’re suing right-wing YouTube star Alex Jones, who had suggested the rampage was a hoax that the families had helped perpetuate. The parents said they have suffered “severe degree of mental stress and anguish,” according to the lawsuit, and a “high degree of psychological pain.”

    The paranoia around the Florida teenagers who have called for tighter gun control (and amassed millions of Twitter followers) has grown just as mighty. Facebook and Google recently pledged to delete any post calling the kids “crisis actors.”

    In the same vein, there is another body of related right wingers and fascists who encourage and elevate conspiracy theorists peddling the same “crisis actors” meme.

    These conspiracy theorists who acclaim themselves as “experts” and “independent”, who take the tragic videos from Syria that document the horrific crimes of the Assad regime, and use passing similarities between different children to label them as the same child, and then to further discredit their suffering, accuse them of being crisis actors. Ghoulishly making fun of children and babies suffering, at public showings of carefully edited and out of context video clips.

    I am talking here of course of Vanessa Beeley and Eva Bartlett and all their avid admirers, and fellow travelers.

    Bartlet and Beeley are the two most cited and referred to fallback source of the Assad apologists.
    The proponents and supporters of the foreign regime change conspiracy narrative, almost always end up citing either, or both, of these two.

    • Jenny 1.1

      Related:

      Syrian children’s trauma is a laughing matter—if you are Vanessa Beeley

      The general gist of Beeley’s talk is similar to her published work on websites such as 21st Century Wire and Mint Press News. The rebels are non-Syrian terrorists from Al-Qaeda who commit atrocities against the population in the areas they hold; what is happening in Syria is part of a regime change conspiracy that has been in place since the 1980s involving the media, human rights organizations, and Western governments; Bashar Assad’s army is the main humanitarian agent, providing Syrians in East Aleppo and other rebel-held areas it captured with relief and medical care.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2

      Hi Jenny. Re our exchange last month, “the rule of law” has nothing to do with right wing notions of “law and order”. It is the principle* that the law applies equally to everyone.

      *NB: actual experience may vary.

      • Jenny 1.2.1

        So the racist hate group Hobson’s Pledge keep telling us. Despite all evidence to the contrary.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/84346494/new-zealands-racist-justice-system–our-law-is-not-colourblind

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1

          No, Jenny, the racist hate group’s dog whistle is “one law for all”, which isn’t the same thing. Also, consider the meaning behind the phrase “actual experience may vary”. Hint: you linked to an example of that.

          • Jenny 1.2.1.1.1

            That’s the point Bloke, experienced actuality, beats divorced from reality maxims and wishful thinking every time.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.1.1

              If that’s the case why bother with human rights at all? Underlying principles are not a “nice-to-have”.

              • Jenny

                No it is important that human rights be codified. Otherwise victories won on the ground are always under attack from conservative forces and you end up fighting the same battles all over again. Even when they are codified the reactionaries and fascists still try to undermine them or repeal them, Or in situations of fascist coups and military take over just abolish them.

                But it might be good to link back to the original debate.

                I think it was about me arguing that the existing oil exploration contracts be repealed. This has got nothing to do with human rights. But corporate rights. And that these contracts are not written in stone and that democratic governments have the right to cancel them. Especially if they have democratic mandate to do so.

              • Jenny

                No it is important that human rights be codified. Otherwise victories won on the ground are always under attack from conservative forces and you end up fighting the same battles all over again. Even when they are codified the reactionaries and fascists still try to undermine them or repeal them, Or in situations of fascist coups and military take over just abolish them.

                But it might be good to link back to the original debate.

                I think it was about me arguing that the existing oil exploration contracts need to be repealed. Which is what you objected too. This has got nothing to do with human rights. But corporate rights. These contracts are not written in stone I argued that democratic governments have the right to cancel them. Especially if they have a democratic mandate to do so.

                I just might mention here that a whole heap of business contracts even for some quite big corporations have just been cancelled between the Iranian government and Western businesses by Donald Trump with the stroke of pen.

                The Right cancel contracts and repeal laws all the time.

                So your argument that these contracts can’t be cancelled holds no water at all.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Jenny, I didn’t say they “can’t” be cancelled. I do however agree with McFlock’s characterisation of such behaviour as “dodgy as fuck”. The things right wingers do are not a good template.

                  I’m not convinced the democratic mandate exists either. Personally, I want our government to be true to its word.

                  • Jenny

                    I’m not convinced the democratic mandate exists either. Personally, I want our government to be true to its word.

                    One Anonymous Bloke

                    According to a TV3 Brunton poll cited by Greenpeace, 80% of New Zealanders are opposed to deep sea oil drilling.

                    (unfortunately can no longer find the direct link to this poll)

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      I’m opposed to deep sea oil drilling too. That’s not the same thing as wanting a government that cancels legally binding contracts.

                      Also, the Greens stood on this platform and got 6%. I voted for them, but a mandate it isn’t.

                      It’s difficult for me to accept that people can be so stupid, but if I can’t stick to my ethics when it’s difficult, what the point of having them?

                  • Jenny

                    Jenny, I didn’t say they “can’t” be cancelled. I do however agree with McFlock’s characterisation of such behaviour as “dodgy as fuck”. The things right wingers do are not a good template.

                    One Anonymous Bloke

                    In this case OAB I think it would benefit us all to go back to the original debate and see what McFlock’s characterisation of such behaviour as “dodgy as fuck.” was actually referencing.

                    I think it is informative of both your and his argument that repressive and reactionary and dangerous legislation and contracts cannot and should not be changed or touched.

                    McFlock said that it was “dodgy as fuck” for the government to abolish low wage contracts in the care industry.

                    This is fully in line with your and his perverted view that it is “dodgy as fuck” to cancel contracts that put human well being and the well being of the biosphere at risk.

                    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07-04-2018/#comment-1474526

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Whatever Jenny. It’s clear you are determined to personalise the issue, and I have better things to do.

                • Jenny

                  Related:

                  “Iran sanctions threaten billions in business deals”
                  Newshub 12 May, 2018

                  http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/05/iran-sanctions-threaten-billions-in-business-deals.html

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    The flailing whims of a racist rapist gang boss. This is how you want our government to behave?

                    • Jenny

                      Wow.

                      Look Bloke I agree with you that it is generally not a good idea to copy the actions of the Right, usually because the Right political parties exist to protect the interests of a minority of wealthy and corrupt corporate and reactionary interests, and almost always do so without a majority mandate. Right wing parties hardly ever have a majority mandate, because the CLASS of people they exist to represent are a minority.

                      For instance, the example I gave above, of Trump virtually nullifying $billions in business contracts when he cancelled the Iran nuclear deal was not supported by the majority of Americans.

                      “Majority of Americans Support Iran Nuclear Deal, Poll Shows”
                      Haaretz May 3, 2018

                      https://vuelos.aerolineas.com.ar/SSW2010/ARAR/webqtrip.html?execution=e2s1

                      In my opinion, comparing the actions of, (to use your words) “The flailing whims of a racist rapist gang boss.” (or class of gang bosses), acting without a majority mandate to cancel business contracts, With a Left government acting with a majority mandate to cancel business contracts, are not equally wrong.

                      In fact they are polar opposites. One is democratic the other is not.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The election result did not provide such a mandate. Even the decision to cease granting new exploration permits was only supported by a minority in the polls I’ve seen.

                    • Jenny

                      OAB I think you need to supply some links or proofs to back up your assertion. “…the decision to cease granting new exploration permits was only supported by a minority in the polls I’ve seen.

                      Or take the risk of looking like a Right Wing blow hard.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    I’m happy to take the “risk” of you smearing my character, because that would say something about you, and nothing whatsoever about me. I reserve the right to ridicule you for it though.

                    I can only find this Stuff straw poll at the moment, which is hardly reliable. However, 6% for the Greens at last year’s election is also indicative.

                    • Jenny

                      I am sorry OAB if you think that I am personalising this debate, the policies you espouse are supported by real people like yourself, not some amorphous nothing out there somewhere. I am sorry that you feel hurt that I have sheeted the cause that you have argued so strenuously here, back to you.

                      If you promote such views, I would have thought that you would be personally prepared to stand behind them, instead of trying to personally distance yourself from them.

                      All I asked was some proofs of your assertion that only a minority supported the government’s ban on the issuing of new oil and gay exploration permits.

                      (Something that you still haven’t done, by the way)

                      And I just pointed out the risk that you personally take to your reputation as a commentator, if you cannot back up your assertions.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      No, Jenny, you have persistently tried to twist my support for the rule of law into some kind of Hobson’s pretzel. It isn’t my problem if you don’t understand basic democratic concepts that date back to Magna Carta.

                      By all means continue to demonstrate your inability to grasp them as much as you like.

                    • Jenny

                      To overcome my “inability to grasp them”, OAB. Could you explain to me, OAB, how in your opinion, a sovereign elected democratic government canceling prospecting licences with an oil company goes against the Magna Carter?

                      I await your reply with genuine interest.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      For the same reason as you reneging on a contract is a bad thing. For the same reason “the divine right of kings” was a bad thing.

                      And that’s before we get to the fact that this government has no such mandate, no matter how much I might wish they did.

                    • Jenny

                      For the same reason as you reneging on a contract is a bad thing. For the same reason “the divine right of kings” was a bad thing.

                      And that’s before we get to the fact that this government has no such mandate, no matter how much I might wish they did.

                      One Anonymous Bloke …

                      Hi OAB, I am still waiting for you to prove your assertion that that this government has no mandate to rescind contracts with the oil companies agreed to by a previous right wing administration.

                      Just because you state it, doesn’t make it so.

                      And “Bad thing” or not, (which is a matter of subjective opinion) i am glad to see that you have finally accepted that, a democratically elected sovereign government, do have the right to pull out of contracts agreed by previous governments.

                      P.S. I might add here OAB, that with or without a popular mandate, this government, and several other governments, will soon have to exercise that right to rescind all business contracts with Iran or face Us sanctions.

                      http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/bolton-countries-deal-iran-face-u-s-sanctions-article-1.3987594?cid=msn

                      Welcome to the real world. OAB.

                      Maybe you would like to argue the Magna Carter on this one?

                      Or is your quibbling schoolboy level sophistry invoking the Magna Carter, only reserved for protecting the divine right of oil companies?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      *Carta

                      Jenny, you’re the one asserting a “mandate”: it’s up to you to support that assertion. Meanwhile, the only party that stood on that policy got 6% at the last election.

                      That’s not “proof”, of course, but then demanding “proof” in such matter is the epitome of puerile gobshite, so that’s on you.

                      Have a lovely day.

                    • Jenny

                      Jenny, you’re the one asserting a “mandate”: it’s up to you to support that assertion.

                      One Anonymous Bloke

                      In support of the flotilla, thousands gathered at West Coast beaches with banners expressing opposition to deep sea drilling. In a November poll run by the NZ Herald, a paper with a generally conservative readership, 2803 opposed deep sea drilling compared to 1305 in favour. In a TVNZ online poll conducted in response to the Oil Free Seas protest, 80% supported the flotilla’s actions.

                      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1401/S00063/deep-sea-drilling-the-spirit-of-mururoa.htm

                      Here’s the thing Bloke, opposition to deep sea oil drilling off New Zealand’s Coasts comes from right across the political spectrum, from New Zealanders of all political persuasions. Even generally considered conservative NZ Herald readers, polled, more than Two to One against deep sea oil drilling. Bloke, citing the Green Party’s 2018 General Election result as your only evidence, misses the point entirely, and is no proof of anything.

                      It is like saying, because National won the election in 1990 the majority of New Zealanders no longer supported this country’s Nuclear Weapons Free status supported by the Labour Party.

                      At least your quibbling over whether the government has a mandate or not, is a move on from your Magna Carta argument, that, (mandate or not), the government has no right to over rule contracts made by the last government with the oil companies. However I suspect that it is a moveable feast for you, any argument will do to keep allowing the oil companies to ‘Drill Baby! Drill!”
                      And screw the climate.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Then:

                      1. You haven’t been paying attention and
                      2. You think smears make a convincing argument.

                      I am not the pain in your mind.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      So you think our government should emulate fascists. Slow clap.

  2. eco maori 2

    Can you guess who ECO MAORI is linking this song for

    https://youtu.be/2g5Hz17C4is

    Ka kite ano

  3. Good evening Newshub I should have said that Ruaumoko is renewing Papatuanuku at Hawaii Kilauea Island on one of my post .
    I ruffled a few feathers with my post on Wednesday Eco Maori tells it like I see it.
    Mike there you go evolution its just beyond me that some people still don’t believe in this fact those Whales that were carnivores would have been the top of the Oceans food chain .The antarctic fossils of those carnivore Whale 300 million years old show me that we are only on Papatuanuku for a fraction of time and its a crime if we stuff it up for the rest of everything to come don’t you think.
    Ingrid its cold in Rotorua at the minute the sandflys hear are already celebrating that ECO MAORI is moving don’t count your chickens sandflys . Anyway ECO MAORI is famous in Tamaki Makaurau Ka kite ano P.S Goldie I read that look e hoa don’t listen to the sandflies spin

    • eco maori 3.1

      The Crowd Goes Wild ki ora Wairangi I suppose you heard the spin to E hoa don’t worry about what the other guy said last week they don’t know what its like being Tangata Whenua like us a.
      I quite liked the Code on Maori TV watched it alot the team and coach are still doing great I see I’ve traveled from Waiapu to Tamaki Makoto just trying to keep MY Waka going strait theres a few good games on this weekend . Ka kite ano P.S I take a little while to included new Tangata in my post.

  4. Heres a song Eco Maori likes

  5. There you go you go its not about the Nuclear deal with Iran its about trump making his rich Oil Barron M8s Billions he is going to cause a oil crisis like1973 a barrel of oil will cost $200 in 2019 and trump and his m8 will be swimming in $$$$$$$$ if he imposes sanctions on Iran heres the link

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12049900
    Ka kite ano
    P.S Eco Maori is going to get a car that is cheap to run

  6. They have been on Papatuanuku for hundreds of millions of years and the chemicals we use in Agriculture and other industries are wipeing them out Insects . heres the link

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/18/warning-of-ecological-armageddon-after-dramatic-plunge-in-insect-numbers

    These chemicals are killing insects and US heres the link

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/08/weedkiller-tests-monsanto-health-dangers-active-ingredient

    • eco maori 7.1

      Good evening Newshub nationals nathan guy has a cheek to try and shovel the blame on Labours Damien O’Connor it was national that tryed to bury this issue and like everything rotten one trys to hide it just gets rottener if it is just covered up and not treated as a issue that is more important than ones Rating ??????????.
      There you go Artificial Intelligence is some phenomenon [ We need to pay close attention to] just look at what the companies did with that new technology are doing with chemicals does not give me any trusts in company’s or people with a technology that could wipe US out.
      Go and———-them bro all the best on your journey up your ladder of life.
      Ka kite ano.

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