Open mike 10/07/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 10th, 2023 - 59 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

59 comments on “Open mike 10/07/2023 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. bwaghorn 1
    10 July 2023 at 6:13 am

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132512457/5-policies-you-might-not-have-expected-from-the-greens-election-manifesto

    Greens policies.

    An extra weeks holiday, na 4s plenty , businesses are gonna hate it.

    Free lunches, yip if the school wants it.

    Nin resident Maori getting automatic residency, more decisive policy, that in reality won’t affect many people

    • bwaghorn 1.1
      10 July 2023 at 6:20 am

      Council ability to set tax, na government needs a hand on the tiller.

      Funding arts stuff and alcohol free gigs , ok

      • Roy Cartland 1.1.1
        10 July 2023 at 8:05 am

        So they've released policies. At least someone has aye?

        • bwaghorn 1.1.1.1
          10 July 2023 at 5:25 pm

          Sometimes I'm sure politicians make up policy just to be seen to be doing something, I'm sure, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

    • Tiger Mountain 1.2
      10 July 2023 at 7:45 am

      For those with an attention span, this is brilliant reading, the Greens will likely be the quiet achievers this Gen. Election and help along with Te Pāti Māori and a reduced NZ Labour quotient to keep Baldrick and Act well away from office.

      https://www.greens.org.nz/manifesto_2023

    • weka 1.3
      10 July 2023 at 8:10 am

      na 4s plenty

      what does that mean?

      • arkie 1.3.1
        10 July 2023 at 8:20 am

        No, Four is plenty

        The best thing the Key Government did was allow the cashing out of one week of holidays. If this Greens policy becomes law bwaghorn could cash it rather than taking the fifth week of holidays if they so choose.

      • bwaghorn 1.3.2
        10 July 2023 at 1:01 pm

        4 weeks holiday

    • Ad 1.4
      10 July 2023 at 8:13 am

      Actually the Greens have put forward a progressive and coherent and consistent set of policies, and they are a great challenge.

      Good on the Greens.

      I don't always like them but they are coherent and consistent.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.5
      10 July 2023 at 8:40 am

      5 weeks ?….nah. A needless distraction. And James Shaw

      did say to his credit…

      Asked if he liked the sound of an extra week off, Green co-leader James Shaw listed some other “priorities” like “action on climate change” and “ending poverty” instead.

      I did like….

      In the arts and culture section, the Green Party manifesto said the Government should create a special funding pool for alcohol-free venues.

      The party also called for the Government to introduce funding for community and arts groups, so they did not have to rely on the Pub Charities grants which come from gambling revenue.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132512457/5-policies-you-might-not-have-expected-from-the-greens-election-manifesto

      Both the alcohol and gambling industries have massive reach and IMO proven adverse consequences for Communities.

      Pub "charities" , charitably gifting funds from harmful pokies ?…a blight on aforesaid Communities.

      On another..did you see my reply re your Passenger Rail comment? Had some links. I , (and many others) think Passenger Rail…is well needed in NZ.

      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08-07-2023/#comment-1958603

    • Incognito 1.6
      10 July 2023 at 11:26 am

      […] that in reality won’t affect many people

      It might not be an election-changing vote-winner but surely we’ve moved on from binary majority-based policy-making to a situation in which politicians, governments, and by extension, our society look after the interests of minorities, especially when these have been ignored or neglected and lag behind in terms of equity. Surely? If you’re a dogmatic devotee of majoritarianism then you should vote NACT.

      • bwaghorn 1.6.1
        10 July 2023 at 1:06 pm

        I assuming this is to give residency to the children and grandchildren of Maori who left nz long ago, that'd mean those children are from another country, I can't see a need for special privilege because of that.

        I also think Noone should have dual citizenship Amy where ever, why should some get privileges because of birth or gaming citizenship rules?

  2. Tiger Mountain 2
    10 July 2023 at 7:37 am

    Biden green lights Cluster Munitions in Ukraine.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/7/us-to-give-ukraine-widely-banned-cluster-munitions-despite-fears

    Billions of dollars ($1.3 or so bill in latest US weapons splurge) for technology that demonstrably kills civilians, while the US continues not to prioritise some of its own citizens basic needs.

    More proof as if any were needed, that this is a proxy war. Even 5 Eyes partners bar the US of course, have signed up to the international Convention on Cluster Munitions this includes New Zealand, UK, Canada and US Imperialism’s Pacific deputy dog–Australia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions

    This war has to end and quickly via the intervention of as many international efforts as possible for a ceasefire, and then negotiations.

  3. PsyclingLeft.Always 3
    10 July 2023 at 8:18 am

    Manuherikia River minimum flow recommendations will be put to Otago regional councillors next month, ending a two-year wait, the council has confirmed.

    It follows years of wrangling between irrigators concerned about retaining allocations to extract water and people concerned about the river’s health.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/orc-decide-river-use

    Surely…A Rivers health….affects everyone ? And 2 years to get…where ?

    IMO I am certain..that some are desperate for ACT to assume absolute control. As in : River health ? Climate change? fuck off….

    • Hunter Thompson II 3.1
      10 July 2023 at 10:31 am

      Even if minimum flow levels are set:

      * will they be sufficient to protect the river environment?

      * will they be enforced or will ORC turn a blind eye to lawbreakers?

  4. Sabine 4
    10 July 2023 at 9:23 am

    Well it seems like Self ID in Germany has hit a roadblock.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/09/germany-trans-self-id-blocked-criminals-escape-prosecution/

    A transgender self-identification law has been blocked at the last minute in Germany over fears it will be abused by criminals trying to escape punishment.

    …

    Important information like criminal records, outstanding arrest warrants and weapons licences need to be recognizable to prosecutors in databases after changing name and gender,” Dirk Peglow, chair of the Alliance of German Legal Civil Servants, told the German news magazine Der Spiegel.

    ……..

    ‌The draft law would ban police and other agencies from using the name a person went by before transitioning. But Nancy Faeser, the interior minister of Scholz’s Social Democrats, reportedly insisted that both names must be automatically given to enforcement authorities to prevent criminals misusing the fast-track gender-swap procedure.

    A few other concerns are all noted, but rest assured that the well being of women – human females of all ages was not a concern at all. But at least the Police has had some success with their concerns.

    • Visubversa 4.1
      10 July 2023 at 10:24 am

      Bit like the NZ Green Party policy on the "Rainbow Community" which hardly mentions same sex attracted people at all.

      • Sabine 4.1.1
        10 July 2023 at 10:37 am

        This is a block based on law and the ability to execute law by police and court. In essence it would make police work impossible as you could not describe victims or perpetrators, you could not arrest the person with their deadname on the arrest warrant etc. It would undermine all of law.

        In some discussion about what to do when the hubby/wife comes out as trans what do you do? Honestly, i would declare my husband dead. Not even go for a divorce, as with the change of their 'sex marker' and 'name' they killed whom ever was there before. Why would i divorce a 'woman' i never was married too in the first place.

        Now the conspiracy theorist in me stipulates that if you want to change many laws – how would you go about? Open debate, and little tweaks here an there to go with the times, or you undermine them altogether and then create new laws to better fit the time.

        that is the question that Germany needs to answer now. And some other countries if ever they have political appointees that still have some sort of respect for their country, the laws they are sworn to upheld, and some integrity and courage. I am not holding my breath though that it would be found here and in many other places.

        Case in point: A young boy recently got attacked by two women, beaten unconsious and then raped. The discription for the women, One is 1.9 meter the 1.75.

        https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-66107716

        Go try find these women. 🙂

        Here you have three kids that go buy he/him pronouns that got lost, luckily they got found.

        https://reduxx.info/missing-childrens-notice-describes-three-boys-by-pronouns/

        The description did not talk about boys he /him, but kids/children he/him so could be both male or female.

        It can't be good for police work.

        And here in NZ we have the case of the big burly person who tortured a young girl to death, referred to as a she/her. The dead girl never stood a fighting chance, but at least we not gonna upset the murderer/torturer with the wrong pronouns.

        • tWiggle 4.1.1.1
          10 July 2023 at 11:03 am

          Arguing from the specific to the general there, Sabine.

          Under that approach to law-making, no women should teach teenagers, based on the number of women who have been successfully prosecuted for having sex with their students.

          • Sabine 4.1.1.1.1
            10 July 2023 at 11:33 am

            why don't you write a letter to the editor?

          • Visubversa 4.1.1.1.2
            10 July 2023 at 11:43 am

            The British tabloid Press has a flush of excitement a couple of years ago when they noted a rise in the numbers of "women" being prosecuted for sex crimes against children. However the most basic of research showed that these were just the usual perverts, but now with an extra co-morbidity.

            This is just one of many

            examples.https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/22739331.sussex-police-row-trans-woman-paedophile/

            • Sabine 4.1.1.1.2.1
              10 July 2023 at 12:04 pm

              And it is precisely the reason Germany blocked Self ID for now.

              In Germany the reason Self ID was blocked was because Justice, Corrections pointed out that they could no longer in any meaningful way uphold the law if they can not refer to aliases of people, refer tot he state of their biology, and so on and so forth.

              This poster is just someone who is after a cheap gotcha, chances are they could no more define the word woman in any meaningful term then our PM couldn't just some time ago. The reality is, this poster could not point out if the 'woman' rapists are male or female as identifying as a woman is something anyone can do, male or female alike.

              Hence the reason why Germany currently has a block on Self ID.

              Btw, Rape in the UK is always the act of a male as it involves always the penis. Any other sexual assault is classified differently. Rape involves the penis, thus is always the crime of a male no matter how that male identifies.

              What is rape and sexual assault?

              Metropolitan Police

              https://www.met.police.uk › advice › rsa › what-is-rap…

              The legal definition of rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent."

              But then, they – the poster – might be one of them that believe that women have penises. Who knows, it's all so confusing now. 🙂

              • Sabine …
                10 July 2023 at 12:07 pm

                edit:

                Maybe in 20 – 50 years humanity will have the knowledge to graft arm / leg rolls onto the pupic bone of females that will simulate 'penis' quite well (or no one will know what a real penis is anymore cause they all got cut off and inverted) and at that stage Transmen(human females identifying as men) will also be part of that 'male' group that rapes.

                edit:

                I only believe that about 5 – 10 % of all humanity are sexual predators. They are however quite prolific, and sadly it seems supported by many for cheap gotchas and to scare females into kindness and acquiescence.

              • Visubversa …
                10 July 2023 at 1:16 pm

                Confusion all the way.

                "Even Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP’s reliably progressive leader, claimed that she couldn’t be sure whether Isla Bryson was actually a woman. This is an outrage. Just because Isla has a penis, testicles and a track record of sexual assault doesn’t make her any less of a lady".

                https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/march-2023/double-rapists-can-be-ladies-too/?fbclid=IwAR3XX5OpButB56G0sWIPgvsjNVuJkVf12QYnB4P4R-JhRkeS3wIUzxk7GPY

              • tWiggle …
                10 July 2023 at 3:29 pm

                Sabine, your oversize women in Essex are reported only to have sexually assaulted their victim, not raped them.

            • tWiggle 4.1.1.1.2.2
              10 July 2023 at 4:22 pm

              Of course, some women teachers can and do sexually abuse students. And some trans people commit sexual assault. Therefore we must ban women from teaching and trans women from existing.

              from the US

              'According to the Center for Sex Offender Management, which is part of the U.S. Department of Justice, females account for around 10 percent of all sex crimes reported to authorities,” Fox News reported. “However, a much higher percentage – over 30 percent – of all teacher-student sexual offenses are estimated to have been perpetrated by females.'

              2019 in NZ

              'The Blenheim teacher who admitted sexually abusing two schoolboys has been jailed – but still cannot be named as she continues the fight to keep her identity a secret. She is understood to be the first female teacher in New Zealand convicted and sentenced for sexual offending against students. And it was confirmed in court that the woman did not dispute having sexual relationships with other older boys.'

              • Belladonna …
                10 July 2023 at 4:38 pm

                Based on those figures 70-90% of teacher student sex-crimes are committed by males – so therefore, males are even more unqualified to teach.

                What does that leave us with? Robots?

              • Belladonna …
                10 July 2023 at 4:41 pm

                Based on those figures 70-90% of teacher student sex-crimes are committed by males. Ignoring, for the moment, the huge differential between the numbers of women and men teachers in the profession – that would mean (following your argument) that males are even more unsafe as teachers than women are.

                What does that leave us with? Robots?

          • Molly 4.1.1.1.3
            10 July 2023 at 12:35 pm

            "Under that approach to law-making, no women should teach teenagers, based on the number of women who have been successfully prosecuted for having sex with their students."

            Can you explain this leap of logic in more detail, tWiggle?

    • Molly 4.2
      10 July 2023 at 12:39 pm

      Archived link available.

      Moderators, does TS mind these archived links being posted to allow access to articles. There were a couple of commentators who seemed concerned, is there a TS policy?

    • Molly 4.3
      10 July 2023 at 12:47 pm

      Interesting comment by the anti-discrimination commissioner:

      "Ferda Ataman, the ‌anti-discrimination commissioner, has accused the government of bowing down to Right-wing populism with the delay after it put the brakes on the reform.

      ‌“It’s being said that we have to be worried about men and women no longer being clearly defined, and men changing their gender just to get into a sauna and gawp at women.” But, she pointed out “in Germany we have mostly mixed-sex saunas anyway. No man has to legally change their gender to see a naked woman.”"

      Such an illogical argument.

      People using mixed-sex spaces CONSENT to inclusion of the other sex.

      The impact will be on single-sex spaces, where consent is not transferable.

      The anti-discrimination commissioner seems to be anti-critical thinking.

      • Sabine 4.3.1
        10 July 2023 at 2:35 pm

        The anti-discrimination commissioner is discriminative against women – human females as women – human females are entitled to single sex spaces under the law and can not be discriminated against on the grounds of their sex. Oops.

        And as the Police and the Justice Department and Ministers in Germany have helpfully pointed out these provisions in law exists and currently they are being blatantly broken and transgressions can not be appropriately policed and prosecuted.

        'Woriads', worthy of respect in a democratic society, until the laws are changed.

        • tWiggle 4.3.1.1
          10 July 2023 at 4:50 pm

          Why do you fuss so much about NZ self-id? It allows people to change their sex on birth certificates by affirmation, without having to go through the Family Court, as previously.

          From the Dept of Internal Affairs website 'Birth certificates are not intended to be considered proof of a person's identity' and 'are not usually used to determine a person's right to access single sex services or spaces'.

          In fuller detail:

          'Questions about the implications of self-identification for service providers

          What does the new law say about how service providers should consider birth certificates as evidence of sex or gender?

          The new legislation clarifies how birth certificates can be used as evidence of sex or gender. Where service providers need to determine someone’s sex or gender, other factors can be considered over and above the registered sex listed on a birth certificate. This reflects the fact that birth certificates are not intended to be considered evidence of a person’s identity (usually birth certificates are provided with other documents such as a driver licence or passports to prove identity).

          What does self-identification mean for single sex spaces and activities such as changing rooms and sports teams?

          The self-identification process should not affect how access to single sex spaces or sports is determined. Birth certificates are not usually used to determine a person’s right to access single sex services or spaces.

          Organisations and individuals can continue to rely on their own policies rather than birth certificates. For example, it is still up to individual governing bodies to determine how sex and gender are determined in sport. It is also still up to individual schools to discuss with learners, parents, caregivers and whānau what name and gender learners use, regardless of the details on their birth certificates.

          How will self-identification affect the placement of people in prison?

          The self-identification process should not affect the placement of people in prison. Corrections is exploring a policy change to ensure birth certificates are not an overriding consideration in placement decisions. Any changes will come into force alongside the self-identification process.’

          • Molly 4.3.1.1.1
            10 July 2023 at 8:04 pm

            Can you give a coherent definition of gender so all can follow your reasoning?

            Then I will be able to respond to your musings and points without any misunderstanding.

  5. tWiggle 5
    10 July 2023 at 11:00 am

    Nine to noon interview about skew in ADHD youth numbers in prison

    They discuss results of a very interesting study mining NZ health and justice data used to evaluate mental health diagnosis with justice system outcomes.

    • ianmac 5.1
      10 July 2023 at 2:32 pm

      Thanks tWiggle. Family has ADHD but luckily avoided the justice system. One was in his 20s by the time he got diagnosed and then treatment. An earlier visit to a Psychologist he was told no such thing as ADHD. Big help.

  6. Dennis Frank 6
    10 July 2023 at 11:14 am

    It's the central base of our democracy so no wonder it comes in at #4 on Stuff's daily popularity rating. Democrats throughout the nation glued to the screen!

    Even his mother, the epitome of duty, was reluctant to move in when she became sovereign in 1952. According to legend, it was only when her prime minister, Winston Churchill, put his foot down that she gave up hope of staying in Clarence House. “You are basically living above the office,” said one former servant, “so it doesn’t lend itself to privacy and it’s not an easy place to relax.”

    Edward VIII complained about “the gloom of Buckingham Palace” and how the family would “freeze up” as soon as they went inside. When the then princess Elizabeth moved in with her family in 1937, the palace had a full-time pest controller to dispose of mice, and her governess likened staying at the palace to “camping in a museum”.

    The mice were still in residence when the Obamas stayed at the palace in 2011 (Barack Obama was terrified his wife, Michelle, who is frightened of mice, would find out), and the couple found themselves accommodated for the first and only time in a presidential guest suite that did not have an en-suite bathroom. The Obamas had to cross a corridor to clean their teeth and wash… The majority of the 775 rooms are accounted for by the 188 staff bedrooms, 52 guest rooms, 92 offices, 78 bathrooms, 19 state rooms and various other service rooms, including kitchens, storage rooms and staff canteens… Throughout her life, the late queen used a two-bar electric fire to heat rooms at Buckingham Palace in which enormous fireplaces were never lit. The king is so appalled at the energy bills for Buckingham Palace that he has ordered staff to set the thermostats at no higher than 19C in the winter, and when rooms are not being used they are turned down to 16C, with radiators turned off completely at weekends. He has also stopped heating the swimming pool.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/royals/300924313/why-nobody-wants-to-live-in-buckingham-palace

    It's tough at the top. Our head of state will struggle within the shackles of democracy regardless of how well they do the multi-year renovations. Still, look on the bright side. The multitude of ghosts abiding in those massive empty room will keep him in good company, whispering in his ear during sleep, connecting him to tradition. Democracy's inertial effect will proceed on this experiential basis…

  7. tWiggle 7
    10 July 2023 at 12:56 pm

    Gerald Otto's facebook post timelines National's hypocricy in moaning about RAT test costs

    In 2021 National hassled the government about lack of RATs, even though orders were in place, and tests arrived in time for the winter wave of covid. Otto's timeline also lays out National's attack of the government covid response to make political capital.

    • Bearded Git 7.1
      10 July 2023 at 1:22 pm

      Thanks for that tWig.

      Captain Hindsight and Corporal Knew-it-all-Along (Luxon and Bishop) are at it again. Many of the so-called wasted RAT tests may get used anyway. I used a couple this week because I've got a heavy cold and I know people who have recently caught Covid.

      Just because the RAT tests have expired according to the date on the packet does not make them unusable so long as they have been stored carefully. They were never that accurate in the first place, something the Captain and Corporal refused to acknowledge. I think many people would be happy to take a few packets for future use.

      • Bearded Git 7.1.1
        10 July 2023 at 1:37 pm

        Google, which is never wrongsmileytells me:

        "you can use an expired test until you can get new ones, as long as the control line is working."

    • Patricia Bremner 7.2
      10 July 2023 at 7:01 pm

      Ta tWiggle, that was vg.smiley Worth folowing.

  8. Stephen D 8
    10 July 2023 at 2:27 pm

    This really pisses me off.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/300922764/the-not-fast-and-the-very-furious-30kph-limit-plans-for-nz-towns

    I’m a baby boomer, live next door to a school, have children, and grandchildren.

    The sheer entitlement and fucking arrogance of those who time is so precious they’d rather risk the lives of kids to save themselves a few seconds tells you everything you need to know about them and their ilk.

    The sooner the boomer generation is confined to history the better.

    • Roy Cartland 8.1
      10 July 2023 at 3:31 pm

      Can you elaborate please?

    • Bearded Git 8.2
      10 July 2023 at 3:45 pm

      In 1990 road deaths were running at about 700 a year. In 2023 they are running at about 350 per year.

      Over this time the population has gone from 3.4m to 5.2m.

      Deaths per million have gone from 206 per million to 67 per million.

      So this is pretty good, but we are way behind Europe-the EU has 46 deaths per million.

      It's hard to tell how the "Road to Zero" is going because traffic was so light in the Covid years 2021 and 2022 but I love the policies of more median barriers, improved junctions and lower speed limits. My understanding is the government has had some resistance to this because contractors like to bild roads not fix roads up.

      Where the article says “Road safety campaigner, Clive Matthew-Wilson, said the Road to Zero project was “a dismal failure”” Where is his evidence?

      • Descendant Of Smith 8.2.1
        10 July 2023 at 4:21 pm

        Median barriers are causing some issues for police who have to drive a-ways before turning around to get to offenders / emergencies in the opposite direction.

        Not a reason for not doing them but long stretches with no gaps could be better redesigned.

      • Belladonna 8.2.2
        10 July 2023 at 4:52 pm

        It would be more useful in analysisng the Road to Zero policy – in looking at road deaths in 2018 (before it was implemented) and in 2022 (the most recent full year, after the policy was implemented – and one in which there were no lockdowns).

        The totals are virtually the same.

        The final road toll five years ago (2018) was finalised at 378 deaths in that year, meaning at this point the 2022 provisional tally eerily mirrored the same figure.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/481764/tragic-tally-60-more-people-killed-on-the-roads-in-2022-than-2021

        I suspect that this is the "dismal failure" of the Road to Zero campaign referenced – all of the median barriers, improved junctions and lowered speed limits implemented since 2018 – have made no difference to the numbers killed.

      • tWiggle 8.2.3
        10 July 2023 at 5:14 pm

        Alas, I think a large part of that decrease is due to airbags. The number to look at is the rate of vehicle accidents with reported casualties, not deaths.

        • Bearded Git 8.2.3.1
          10 July 2023 at 6:17 pm

          Good point tWig, But there are many factors.

          Car body construction has improved hugely so that cars do not crumple on impact and the car frame is designed to absorb the impact as well as the airbags.

          The state of the roads is also important. Cars crossing to the wrong side of the road can't happen with median barriers. Better designed junctions are important. There are two terrible junctions in Wanaka that are scheduled to be replaced by a roundabout and traffic lights for instance. And so on….

          What we don’t need is motorways being built using the excuse that they are safer. They are massively expensive-much better to spend this on public transport.

    • Belladonna 8.3
      10 July 2023 at 5:06 pm

      Nothing in the article saying that it is only (or even primarily) boomers complaining.

      When we look at deaths from speeding (people, who by definition already don't care about any speed limits) the under 30 age group are much more significantly represented than the over 60s (the boomers)

      https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistics-and-insights/safety-annual-statistics/sheet/speed

      • satty 8.3.1
        10 July 2023 at 7:15 pm

        With over 90% of drivers speeding outside the school near my home, I can guarantee you it's not limited to a certain age range (younger people maybe on their mobile phone while speeding though). Speeding is widespread and excessive in this country (there are more drivers over 60 km/h than within the limit of 30 km/h – I measured it).

        But then the police doesn't care (and probably doesn't have enough resources), the council doesn't care (they even widened the road), the 90% of the drivers don't care either… and the funny thing is, following one of those "speedsters" you will very likely see them at the next traffic light over 1 km away… so they didn't even safe any travel time (they are just morons complaining about their high petrol bill mainly caused by their stupid driving habits).

        And then the fines for traffic offences in the country can only be considered a joke. $30 for speeding, same as late 90s… when a glass of beer in a pub was $2, the house prices $150,000… compared to $15 and $900,000 or so here in Wellington.

        Speeding tickets should start at $200+ – similar to drinking alcohol in a liquor ban zone, like Country Place (I guess whoever set $250 dollar fine figured out that nobody cares about $30, $40 to $60 anymore), and, if you ask me, we should introduce a license suspension for anything 20km/h plus over the speed limit in towns, like they do in many Europe countries.

        • Roy Cartland 8.3.1.1
          10 July 2023 at 7:24 pm

          It's illegal to be on phones while driving, but all these new cars have a bloody ipad as their central control. You literally can't watch the road and it. And some even have more screens displaying all manner of distracting info – I drove one that had three(!).

          Please, give me my knobs and switches back, tactility, so I can watch the damn road (and possibly the speedo).

  9. Dennis Frank 9
    10 July 2023 at 4:37 pm

    Ship aground, captain went missing:

    The Heron review was commissioned by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) after it was revealed dawn raids continued after then Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s 2021 apology to Pacific People for historic Dawn Raids.

    The review found that despite the immense publicity of the apology in 2021, nothing was done by ministers or officials to change the way the Government sought people for deportation. The review found the apology “created a reasonable expectation within the Pasifika community that ‘dawn’ intrusions into houses would cease (or at least would be a very last resort”.

    It found there “does not appear to have been an attempt to implement the principles of the government’s apology or alter out of hours visits in light of it”. Only now, after the review was initiated, was MBIE updating its internal guidance for dawn raids to align them with the apology.

    Look, everyone knows the pandemic afflicted Labour mental processes so extensively that they became unable to make decisions. People point that out onsite here constantly, so it must be true. Faafoi may have put it on the cabinet agenda & it got displaced later.

    Jacinda knew someone had told her she had to apologise for what Muldoon had done. It's vitally important that Labour accept responsibility for National mistakes. Apparently. Dunno why. You can't blame her for forgetting to ensure that the same mistakes weren't being produced by her govt: that's rocket science thinking, which Labour doesn't do. Still racist though, according to islanders…

    Since 2015, there have been 95 dawn raids, which found 117 people for deportation, of whom 101 were eventually deported. Of those 101 people, eight were Pacific Island nationals, while 47 were Chinese nationals. This was largely the result of a pivot from focusing on horticulture visas to focusing on construction, where more Chinese nationals work.

    “When presented with evidence that Chinese and Indian persons made up the majority of deportees, the Pasifika community told us that this was still racist – the racism had turned to other parties, " the review said.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/review-slams-jacinda-arderns-hollow-dawn-raid-apology-after-nothing-done-to-stop-dawn-raids/LDGTZSYFRNAWNA4EZAOIODJ3GU/

    • tWiggle 9.1
      10 July 2023 at 5:21 pm

      Or the current stats realistically reflect the racial proportions of overstayers. Looks like NZ Herald didn't bother to investigate that possibility in their reportage – in a hurry for an anti-government soundbite.

  10. tWiggle 10
    10 July 2023 at 6:00 pm

    A 2020 Herald article estimated 10,000 overstayers in NZ, mostly Pasifika. The article is about an Indian overstayer who came as a student on borrowed money.

    Oops, seems like a switch from PI overstayers to Chinese construction workers could, in fact, be racist.