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Open Mike 10/12/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 10th, 2018 - 133 comments
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133 comments on “Open Mike 10/12/2018 ”

  1. Stunned mullet 1

    Praise for DI Scott Beard and his team who have done their work competently and compassionately over the last week.

    • millsy 1.1

      Sadly, I knew that this poor young woman would be a murder victim right from the moment she went missing. Hopefully the guy who did this will plead guilty and spare her family the ordeal of a trial.

      This has paralells with that young Japanese woman that met a similar fate in 1998. Though her killer has yet to be caught.

      • McFlock 1.1.1

        It’s a bit like hearing a tramper is overdue in bad weather – one tends to expect the worst, and sadly is often correct.

      • JohnSelway 1.1.2

        I figured that as well. It doesn’t happen often here but always tragic when it does

  2. Sanctuary 2

    I feel very much for the victim and my heart goes out to Grace Millane’s family.

    But the MSM is suffering a very bad case of Missing White Woman Syndrome.

    • Enough 2.1

      Really??

      • Sanctuary 2.1.1

        Yes, really.

        The meta informs us – the underlying unhealthy media obsession with attractive, young white upper class women is itself a demonstration of a whole kitbag of wider social and cultural issues around violence towards women.

        • Stunned Mullet 2.1.1.1

          🙄

        • greywarshark 2.1.1.2

          Thank goodness the young woman has been found. But it is time for NZ to be recognised as a place with young men having a wild west attitude.
          Uncontrolled minds and behaviour, pleasure-seeking and mendacious is am appropriate description.

          But there is a deep vein of this that runs through the country, an indication of which is that we kept advertising ourselves as 100% Pure when we knew we had gone far from that. But we can always rationalise
          away our ingrained lying.

          • Roflcopter 2.1.1.2.1

            Hmmm… you’re making the assumption that the murderer is a Kiwi.

            He was staying at a hostel, where most of the people staying there are foreigners.

            • veutoviper 2.1.1.2.1.1

              Also RNZ has described the car involved, which NZ Police have been asking for information about its movements, was a 2016 Red Corolla -rental.

            • greywarshark 2.1.1.2.1.2

              True, I did think that it would be a Kiwi. It follows the pattern of other murders committed by Kiwis. But it may be a foreigner. The way we run our country probably encourages criminals to come here, as we enable them through various devious habits we adopt. Government likes to keep our visitor and immigrant numbers up which give the impression that we are making lots of foreign money that they bring to us, but less noticed is whether it stays here in NZ taxpayers’ pockets.

              • Grumpy

                …..and now has name suppression!

                • veutoviper

                  Name suppression for the moment is only by default while legal appeals are made to the judge’s decision to NOT grant name suppression. RNZ (and presumably other news outlets) are choosing to not disclose his name at this point.

                  https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/377883/backpacker-murder-judge-tells-millane-s-family-all-of-us-hope-that-justice-for-grace-is-fair

                  ” … The 26-year-old accused of murdering Ms Millane between 1 and 2 of December appeared this morning dressed in a blue boiler suit.

                  The court heard extensive submissions on interim name suppression, but Judge Thomas declined to grant it.

                  The accused’s lawyer Ian Brookie indicated he would appeal, prohibiting media from identifying the accused in the meantime.

                  As the accused was walked out of court, a person in the public gallery yelled “Scumbag”.

                  He has been remanded in custody until he appears in court in January. …”

                  This article also provides more on the red 2016 Toyota Corolla rental car I mentioned earlier above.

                  “Detective Inspector Scott Beard said the police investigation into Ms Millane’s death would continue for some time, as they pieced together what happened after she was last seen entering a central Auckland hotel more than a week ago.

                  They want to hear about any sightings of a 2016 red Toyota Corolla rental car last Monday morning in West Auckland.

                  The car was rented in central Auckland and was then found in Taupō.”

            • Naki man 2.1.1.2.1.3

              “Hmmm… you’re making the assumption that the murderer is a Kiwi.”

              One news says a 26 year old Kiwi has been charged.

          • Kay 2.1.1.2.2

            I’ve been emailing a friend in England over the last 24 hours and this awful event was mentioned. In his reply I received this morning the rather telling statement “One thinks of NZ as being relatively crime free too. Just awful.”
            Similar sentiments on RNZ this morning- NZ being seen as a safe destination be Europeans for young solo travellers. Were we ever, has it got worse, are we no worse than any other Western country?

            I’ve been alone in some big cities in Europe at night and felt safer than I ever have alone in Queen St after dark.

          • Observer Tokoroa 2.1.1.2.3

            Yes Greywarshark

            We are repeatedly told that there is a decline in murder in New Zealand. But I seriously doubt that is the case.

            How many many babies are bashed by daddy into the walls of homes. How often does daddy escape punishment.

            Rape is rampant in our country. I cringe every time Haka is performed by Maori and Pakeha – because it charges up the Adrenalin of sick young hoods – brought up on Alcohol and violence.

            Dodgy Statistics – are not a solution. Men of all ages must be treated to heavy doses of responsibility.from a very young age.

            Finally, Prison is about Punishment not about Pity.

            • greywarshark 2.1.1.2.3.1

              Do you think that prisons should be more for punishment than pity Observer?

              These young guys definitely need something, but what? There are plans for getting them onto better behaviour paths but it seems they are often underfunded. There is just the will needed by government, then the follow-through to provide settled housing for those who have been guilty of bad behaviour so they have a place to go when released, then opportunity to get into work etc

              Kim Workman has retired. He was tryuingto get more habilitation going but it is something that must be followed for decades, or as long as needed.
              https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018673187/kim-workman-journey-towards-justice

              Under-funded too is the help for parents to go it alone without a partner if best (so many stepfathers are involved in dodgy ways, and real fathers
              need training to do a good job or they can be bad role models to have around. The government is so busy being disapproving of behaviour that its moralistic attitude is perpetuating a cycle of bad and violent parenting which they are forcing on mothers, ‘for their own good’.)

              • Observer Tokoroa

                Hi Greywarshark

                If we do not wish to punish Criminals then we should not put them in Prisons.

                We should leave them in the community to do as they will.

                But if we deem serious crime as a revolt against the Community then we should punish the Criminals until such time as they learn crime does not pay.

                • greywarshark

                  Good theory observer.
                  But you haven’t observed that prison itself doesn’t teach them that crime does not pay. How simple minded. A lot of rich people around have got their by manipulating the law, either by sailing close to the wind, or changing the law so they can’t be called criminals any more.

                  What I want is efficiency!! Prisons don’t work to habilitate criminals. Your ideas are too costly and a waste of money. Be sensible and look for better ways that can be seen to work to reduce crime.

                  I want those who commit crimes to be forced to work their brains thoroughly learning what to do instead of crime, and how to deal with their problems without losing it and being violent. Thinking is a punishment to many people. We can notice the difficulties of doing the mahi right in this blog. The people who aren’t criminals, or who haven’t been caught yet, find it difficult to think around problems and get a grasp. Criminals who are forced to do so are going to feel really hard worked eh!

                  I want less crime, better childhoods and parents helped to be good role models, and better chances to have a good life. Crime would be something that only extreme nutters do then. And people would smile more, be happy and occupied doing useful stuff.

                  • Observer Tokoroa

                    Thanks Greywarshark

                    I respect your words. as you know.

                    I did say in a brief sentence : “Men of all ages must be treated with heavy doses of responsibility.from a very young age.”

                    Even as children, boys must be raised as responsible persons and accountable for their actions.

                    Boot camps have not worked. I don’t think rehabilitation has really reduced recidivism.

                    All of which, seems to say, raise and teach the Boy. At Home. Give him pride and achievement. Start it early.

                    It will still mean that Prison is for Punishment. For criminals who deserve it. For society is not a plaything for Criminals or Gangs.

                    • greywarshark

                      Observer
                      I agree with what you say.
                      There are three levels to tackle this as i see it.
                      1 Is bringing boys and girls up to have self-respect and respect for others in their family and society, and if they are being abused that the whole family should be put on notice that they all deserve better conditions, and they work out how to achieve that as a group, with further consequences if it doesn’t improve. And important is that parents are helped by being respected, and enabled to have jobs, homes and a sense of wellbeing for their family. Good and settled role models.

                      2 Helping teenagers get through their difficult growing stages.
                      Giving them a basic schooling, enabling them to stay or go into a job, or do work and school at the same time, like an apprentice. I have seen this done, probablyunder a Labour Party idea, and it worked. Don’t know if still happening.

                      After school, get them into a job and keep up the training so they can better themselves, good reading and writing and arguing skills. If a person can express their thoughts, talk their way to understanding and dealing with them, the build-up of stress is less likely to happen.

                      3 Give them suspended sentences when they get into crime, and send them to a different part of the country were they can adjust to life outside of their familiar territory and its temptations. Give them remedial help, reading, basic housing, a paid job.

                      4 When they are in jail, give them time away from gangs in a different setting or place, where they can do some study, learn about Maoritanga, philosophy, determine their own strengths and weaknesses, and go to a half-way farm and work, and then apply for parole.

                      5 The really bad buggers should spend their life enclosed in controlled conditions under supervision, and separated from being able to influence others. They can be classed as criminally insane and unable to live or be trusted in ordinary society.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2.3.2

              But I seriously doubt that is the case.

              Why?

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/107415102/murder-rate-hits-a-40yearlow-police-say

              How many many babies are bashed by daddy into the walls of homes. How often does daddy escape punishment.

              You’re assuming a) that it was always daddy and b) that daddy then got away with murder

              Have you got anything to back up these assumptions?

              Dodgy Statistics – are not a solution.

              They’re a hell of a lot better than the anecdotes you seem to want to rely upon.

              • Observer Tokoroa

                Hi Draco

                So our Prisons are obviously nearly empty, if we have a forty year reduction in serious crime ?

                Please advise me ?

                I thought they want to build more and more prisons Draco to cope with the crime rate – which you say does not exist.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Yep, you’re still talking shit.

                  We were talking murder rate – not crime rate but that’s going down to.

                  Perhaps you should learn maths so that you understand how a crime rate can go down while there are more people in prison.

              • JohnSelway

                Really Draco? Really?

                You are asking someone to back up their assumptions after that tear you went on that other day about how all rich people cheat in their taxes and are thieves while providing no evidence?

                “Have you got anything to back up these assumptions?”

                Have you?

                Come on man, at least be consistent.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  You are asking someone to back up their assumptions after that tear you went on that other day about how all rich people cheat in their taxes and are thieves while providing no evidence?

                  It’s morality that you refuse to see.

                  If someone has income from someone else’s work then they are stealing from that other person.

                  This is true for all rich people.

                  • JohnSelway

                    Like I already told you, Draco. That isn’t the way everyone gets rich and I agree some are getting rich that way.

                    But not everyone. Does the artist? Does that famous musician? Does the famous writer? Thats THEIR own work.

                    You have nothing to back up your assumptions so stop accusing others because you look like a fucking hypocrite right now.

                    I said to you “Stephen King has sold 350 million copies of his work” which is more than enough to make him rich and you just made the assmption that he was getting unearned income from somewhere and therefor he was a thief. That’s just your own evidence free assumption. At least be honest with yourself

                  • Observer Tokoroa

                    Draco T

                    I agree I am not as intelligent as you.

                    I simply cannot understand why you and your political friends want to build more and bigger Prisons, when at the same time you are telling us that there are far fewer criminals.

                    Draco Houdini Bastard
                    please try and be helpful

                    • JohnSelway

                      Draco is incapable of admitting there are, or considering, other ideas that do not conform with his own POV.

                      That is the opposite of intelligent. Observer Tokoroa, you’re doing just fine

          • Tamati Tautuhi 2.1.1.2.4

            Time for NZ to toughen up on the gang culture and illicit drugs, normal people don’t commit these sorts of crimes unless they have mental health problems. I believe this person may have or have had a substance abuse problem ?

            • Patricia 2.1.1.2.4.1

              Why not use the time in prison wisely ? Reading + writing lessons / budgeting classes / getting work ready / maybe learn a trade. Anger and time management All these could take place in the prison. Prisoners should come out of prison better educated than when they went in.

              • BM

                Fuck sake, have you ever had any dealings with the underworld?

                Crime is their trade.

                • OnceWasTim

                  Honest question though @ BM. Have you ever asked why it is that crime (all that macho shit that goes with it – the concept of ‘taxing’, turf wars, trying to get little prospects under their wing, etc., etc., etc.)……have you ever asked why that has become the easier option?

                  • joe90

                    C’mon, crime has always been the easier option. I mean, what’s not to like about all the piss, pot, and pussy your heart desires, staying up all night, sleeping late, and if you’re unfortunate enough to be caught, it’s do the crime, do the time.

                  • BM

                    Crime is no different to any other trade/profession.

                    Those that have got to the top have worked hard and sacrificed a lot to get there.

                    • joe90

                      Actually, those who get to the top have finely honed their thuggery to the point that their reputation precedes them, and anyone who knows them is scared shitless by their violence.

                    • OnceWasTim

                      well it is the easier option if you’re totally divorced from any concept of a society. actually a very lazy and thick as pigshit option in terms of sustainability.
                      I’m quite interested in gang criminality – having worked with the likes of Mr O’Riley and others, and having one or two distant relatives holding ‘rank’ on both sides of the Mungie/BP divide. I can agree with all that he (Denis) maintains as to why people join a gang (in a word a feeling of disenfranchisement. etc. – a desire for community, of mutual support, solidarity and all the buzz)
                      Except that take (say) the Mungies, and the BP, and others (Rebels maybe), and they all profess the same motivations and reasons for being in their ‘club’. That all falls apart though because of their turf wars and spats with each other.
                      In reality, they’ve just become the ultimate capitalists all aspiring towards some sort of supremacy.
                      It’s all just a wee bit pathetic really and a complete display of a collective of individuals that are a bit fucked up (albeit legends in their own minds)

              • greywarshark

                They will at least commit smarter crimes according to BM. Then they will be able to join the in-crowd of the Natinal Party. Social mobility, that is what is needed there.

                Have yopu heard Kim Workman on his book and life
                OWT.

                He’s another like Denis O’Reilly, a valuable potential waiting to be listened and followed.

                West Side Story for gangsd and turf wars!
                https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018673187/kim-workman-journey-towards-justice

                • OnceWasTim

                  Yep I have @ grey, and I agree.

                  But in the meantime, I kind of despair at the fucking stupidity of it all.
                  (I.e. on BOTH sides – crims/gangs and ‘authorities’ …… it is pig shittery at its worst – but I ‘spose it at least keeps people in employment on upper muddle class salaries)
                  PS sorry for being a bit lazy about Denis’ surname – kind of a Brambles versus NZ Freighters kind of thing

                  • greywarshark

                    Don’t be sorry OwT. I have found I always enjoy reading your comments, and learn something no matter if there are typos. (I find my fingers are getting there and their mixed up,)

          • millsy 2.1.1.2.5

            It appears that she met her killer on a dating app. I would wager that he killed her because she wouldnt sleep with him. Most male on female killings are sexually motivated.

            • greywarshark 2.1.1.2.5.1

              Thanks for that info millsy. Women and men too need to be more wary of strangers, and also the type of people who are dodgy. Just because there are these fast ways of making contact with others, doesn’t mean that you can trust the people you meet.

              There is a high level of trust being extended,ie couchsurfing with strangers, meeting unknowns through apps etc. It all involves risk.
              Hitchhikers know this. When you are in a car it is hard to get out.
              There were two women tourists who got a lift and who were brutally attacked, the man went onto Christchurch and attacked someone else.

              I believe that level of behaviour should automatically cause the person to be regarded as criminally insane and never be let out again into public life. They have crossed the line for being a decent citizen with self control and morals and are likely to prey again on others. Ordinary citizens deserve to have safety and the predatory and vicious locked down.

        • Gabby 2.1.1.3

          Does the meta talk to you sanky? Late at night, when it’s just you and the meta? Heavy meta.

        • Grantoc 2.1.1.4

          Sanctuary

          Are you so dogmatic that you’re unable to view this tragedy except through the lens of a rigid left wing ideologue.

          The insidious implication that arises from you’re comment is that because this young woman may have the characteristics you describe, that her murder is some how to be diminished.

          It s a human tragedy first and foremost and this is the only lens that is appropriate regardless.

          • Anne 2.1.1.4.1

            You Grantoc and a few others are misinterpreting Sanctuary’s comment.

            He is correct. Because the woman is young, attractive, white and English (which is the country most of us have family and hereditary ties to) she is getting VIP media coverage both here and overseas. Had she been a woman who is young, attractive, black and from say…Kenya, the media coverage would be negligible in comparison.

            That is the reality whether people like it or not, and it doesn’t detract one iota from feelings of empathy, sadness and outrage no matter who they are or where they come from.

            • Grantoc 2.1.1.4.1.1

              The thing is Anne that as human beings we inevitably extend our strongest expressions of empathy and related feelings to those who are most like us – our family, and those who appear to live similar lives to us from similar ethnic, social and cultural backgrounds.

              I, like most NZ’ers, have daughters who have travelled overseas on their OE and at times travelled by themselves. We (collectively) have experienced times when our daughters (and at times sons) have been out of contact and as parents we get anxious, naturally.

              The events of Grace Mullane’s murder are easy to relate too. The family is like us, they could be us. And so naturally our reactions are as they are. You saw that demonstrated by the PM at her press conference this afternoon.

              The death of a young Kenyan woman as per your example is too remote from us; both geographically, psychologically, culturally and economically. For better or for worse we don’t relate to such an example in the same way as we do to Grace Mullane.

              What I am describing is the humam condition. No amount of left wing hand ringing over this will make any difference to where we place our empathy and feelings in these situations.

              • Anne

                That is precisely what I was saying Grantoc. I am of English stock. I identify strongly with my inheritance. My response to this murder was as shocked and outraged as anyone else.

                But that does not stop me from reflecting on the fact that we don’t show anything like the empathy to people of a different race and colour in similar circumstances – including Maori and Pacific Islanders – and it is something that should be acknowledged. This, I believe, is what Sanctuary was saying.

                It has nothing to do with being Left or Right and those who suggest as much are the ones playing politics with a tragic occurrence.

                • Grantoc

                  And your reflections Anne are insightful and worth making.

                  Acknowledging our behaviour in these situations is a useful exercise because I think it does tell us something about ourselves as humans.

                  This is possibly where your thinking starts to sedge way with mine. I am of the opinion that even if we do make this acknowledgement, its a very rare human being who actually does something about it – and this is for the reasons I’ve referred to.

                  I think that as humans we are psychologically incapable of moving much beyond our own reference group in situations such as the Mullane case. As much as anything we psychologically crowd out other similar situations, such as the scenario you describe. Its almost like there is no capacity left for us to deal with it. I don’t think this is deliberate; its just a comment on our limitations.

                  • Anne

                    Well, in turn I say that is a very thoughtful response Grantoc. In particular your last paragraph.

                    It is true that we identify far more with our own kind, but we should at least try and keep these awful events in proper perspective. We are a multicultural society now and it is our responsibility to learn to recognise that people among us from countries other than English speaking ones, suffer tragedy and loss in the same way we do.

                    I don’t think our thoughts are all that far apart.

    • SaveNZ 2.2

      That is a low blow Sanctuary – does everything have to be about woke left discourse and of course it will come out the ethnicity of the attacker shortly.

      Will he be part of our 100% pure criminal campaign drive of the last 20 years?

    • Gabby 2.3

      Missing White Women on the whole are A Bad Thing sanky.

  3. Nick 3

    I feel very sorry for the victim. What a tragedy for the family. I feel like the murderer should be put down, but that is not a good way to think.

    • Ankerrawshark 3.1

      I feel heart broken about the fate of the young backpacker.

      Somehow it feels worse cause she is a tourist. There was also a 21year old male stabbed to death over the weekend. Both will effect their families and love ones for life……..

      I probably pay attention more to the tourist cause she was missing initially and therefore in the news a lot. Also some maybe old fashion idea of hospitality and responsibility for someone visiting our country. It reflects on our country (was on bbc world news)…….it will make no difference to graces family, but I hope the perp is from overseas

      • RedLogix 3.1.1

        There was also a 21year old male stabbed to death over the weekend.

        Actually worth a read:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_Zealand

        http://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publication/homicide-victims-report-2017-and-historic-nz-murder-rate-report-1926-2017

        Four points that frequently get lost:

        1. Overall crime rates continue to decline. No-one can definitively say why; it could be anything from de-leading petrol, to dropping testosterone levels, to some unspecified social factors … but this is the good news.

        2. Homicide remains rare; double digits per annum. Way lower than say the road toll. In any given year only one or two murders would committed by strangers. NZ is really a very, very safe place in public. At home it’s not such a good story, but still comparatively we’re doing quite well, so we can count this as good news too.

        3. 62% of homicide victims are male. If we included suicide (as a form of self-inflicted homicide) the proportion would be even higher. Maori remain over-represented by a factor of two. Roughly two-thirds of people never experience a significant crime in their lives ever; while a small fraction around 4% are serial victims.

        4. While IPV homicides understandably attract a lot of social attention, in say 2017 of the 48 homicides only 10 were classified as being related as a ‘couple’. Of that 10, 8 victims were female and 2 were male. (The 3 child victims were all male.)

        It makes for an interesting and complex picture even if it is a snapshot of just one year. The pdf report is here:

        http://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/homicide-victims-report-2017.pdf

        • mpledger 3.1.1.1

          My theory is that it’s to do with the Boomers. Crime was high when they were young and has decreased as they age. It’s not just that they are a large group, so influence all stats, but that they lower the density of young people who don’t rub up against each other as much and so don’t egg each other on to commit crime (plus the young are all gaming).

  4. cleangreen 4

    Chris Hipkins is finally doing some good here as RNZ released other policies Labour is ‘rolling out here.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377885/government-ministers-meetings-to-be-made-public-from-next-year

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/12/10/a-breath-of-fresh-spring-air-shows-the-way-out-of-a-dark-age-in-education/

    We agree that this Government need to open up fully with “transparency” now.

    We hear this morning on RNZ news that Chis Hipkins has release details on Labour policy to have all their MP’s now release all the details on whom they have met during their activities of the term of their Governance of NZ, so this will assist us all to observe if our own “community NGO’s” public representatives who are speaking for us all also are properly receiving the same level of meetings with these same MP’s as the business interests are obviously receiving now.

    Make it an “even balanced level of ‘consultation.”

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      “I think there’s increasing public interest in who senior politicians are meeting with. We’re seeing that through written parliamentary questions, through OIAs, through media questions

      That’s because people are really starting to wonder where the government is getting its marching orders from as it certainly isn’t the people.

      “There isn’t anything sinister about who politicians meet with, actually it shows that New Zealand government is very open.”

      MPs meeting with lobbyists is sinister. It shows that the parliament is listening to those who don’t have the best interests of the country at heart.

      so this will assist us all to observe if our own “community NGO’s” public representatives who are speaking for us all

      Since when did NGOs speak for us all?

      • cleangreen 4.1.1

        Draco;

        Our Environmental NGO founded in 2001 speaks for the negative impacts to all people in regions it environmentally monitors continually on their loss of health and well being when they have no voice.

        So we are a free community service that operates on a volunteer basis.

        Please don’t knock those people who honestly and genuinely want to help others as we do with free services to monitor their environment since 2002.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1

          1. Not all NGOs do moral work
          2. If they haven’t asked all of us then they’re not speaking for all of us

      • James 4.1.2

        ““There isn’t anything sinister about who politicians meet with, actually it shows that New Zealand government is very open.”

        Tell that to Claire Curran.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.1

          You do realise that Clare Curran was used by the present government as an example as to why this needs to be brought in right? In the same article that I quoted.

        • cleangreen 4.1.2.2

          Yes James,

          Clare Curran was used by National as a tool for their agenda to rob RNZ and bed in all their own Natz clip-on’s right under her own nose; – and she could not see that when she had power to fix the RNZ right wing swing.

          National also had there own man inside as the head of RNZ then.

          Clare Curran should have had him removed but she lost any chance to take control of a now right wing trumpet for National.

    • ianmac 4.2

      A sad blow for the Opposition because if the records of meetings are published, what are they going to do to ferment suspicion and doubt about apparent secret dodgy meetings?

      • cleangreen 4.2.1

        Ianmac,

        I am not sure if National are going to release all folks they met.

        Especially with their doggy meetings with all ‘those crooks’ they cuddle up to all over the planet.

        John Key even went to the high alter of global crooks at “The Bilderberg Group” in 2011/12.

        These are just Criminal gangs that attend the following, to learn their trade,

        http://twochurchesonly.com/supmat/03/most_influential/bilderberg_group/list_of_bilderberg_attendees.pdf

        Why didn’t PM John Key tell NZ he was into Bilderberg?

        List of Bilderberg participants 4

        New Zealand

        • John Key (2011-2012), Prime Minister of New Zealand

        On behalf of all NZ taxpayers, we ask someone’s assistance to investigate this connection between a secretive global power hungry group and answers from PM John Key the following;

        Why PM failed to tell us that he attended the Bilderberg Group as PM of NZ in 2011.

        Why did not prior, inform us why he attended this most secretive powerful global elitist black ops organisation who plots to destabilise secretly sovereign countries around the world.

        Is he being requested by Bilderberg or any other party to spy on our country and others for their information?

        Why has he attended an highly secretive organisation who bans any media coverage of events?

        Our belief;

        We believe the global elite is causing all this degradation of our world “so called order”.

        The capitalistic system is failing and these Bilderberg NAZI regenerated agenda plotters have invited Key to their 2011 annual conference so he is in it Don-key deep.

        (Here is the full attendance list.) http://twochurchesonly.com/supmat/03/most_influential/bilderberg_group/list_of_bilderberg_attendees.pdf

        Why didn’t PM John Key tell NZ he was into Bilderberg?

        List of Bilderberg participants 4

        New Zealand

        • John Key (2011-2012), Prime Minister of New Zealand

        According to this site it quotes; http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bilderberg

        No Bilderberg meeting agenda has ever been made public. “It is the epitome of low-profile dark ops, a shadow government hidden in a doorway.” According to critics and close observers, it’s agenda is to weaken all world leadership but their own. It is also, according to a U.S. law called the Logan Act, [15] illegal:

        • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1

          I am not sure if National are going to release all folks they met.

          Especially with their doggy meetings with all ‘those crooks’ they cuddle up to all over the planet.

          Yep. The publishing of meetings needs to apply to all of parliament and not just the parties in government.

        • Tamati Tautuhi 4.2.1.2

          One World Government

    • gsays 4.3

      I heard this this morning and I am heartened there may be a culture change I regards to lobbyists.

      To have this followed up by the radical, obvious, fiscally responsible, co-operative idea of schools serving their wider community.
      My day off got brighter.

  5. Kat 5

    Meanwhile the Hosk has three names (three wise men?) therefore Kiwibuild was conceived bad, born bad and is bad. The Hosk has obviously been listening to George Thorogood while doing dougnuts on his mobility scooter. No doubt his Christmas ham will be bad to the bone as well.

    • SPC 5.1

      The Dorian Gray Husk purports to find it shocking that the new builds cost more than existing homes … thus buying doer uppers remains cheaper …

      The radical next development of the KB design will be to allow landlords and existing homeowners to buy them – they will of course be at the standard required for rentals. The point is to build more houses and then sell them onto the market so the government can finance building more, it does not matter if they are not sold to first home buyers – the increased supply reduces the value of existing houses to make them more affordable to first home buyers.

      • joe90 5.1.1

        The Dorian Gray Husk

        The Husk of Dorian Gray…

      • greywarshark 5.1.2

        Sounds like playing Pass the Parcel casino-wise. Once a lot of outside players can join in the game, the chances of special people included in the game with good odds for winning a housing opportunity are greatly reduced.

        But timorous government can’t go directly to the most appropriate recipients and offer them a State house, they have to have this long linkage with ticket clippers along the way. In the end it will get so bad we’ll see someone prepared to sell a kidney or something, to raise enough deposit to get a stake in the Housing Lottery.

        • SPC 5.1.2.1

          The thing is, where it costs more to buy a new build than an existing home – how many first home buyers can afford the Kiwibuild one?

          There will come a point where after a few ballots where there are unsold homes, and if the government wants to release the cash to build more it will have to sell to other buyers.

  6. greywarshark 6

    National trying to cut Shane Jones tree planting value claims off to a stump.
    They are more interested in Goldsmith being a spoiler for positive steps. What a bunch of sitabouts they are. Malign, and computer model sitters, but not doing
    the country-building needed; just following predatory business asset-stripping
    on a country of people that is the base for any business, then National is just a diseased group eating its own parent. Yerk.

    Forest and Bird and Doc have combined to push out digging up iwi land up Northland. The people up there want to get some economic growth but it is to affect wetlands and I think take peat and kauri by Resin and Wax for export.

  7. Ankerrawshark 7

    Got rung up on Friday night by Roy Morgan wanting to do a survey. My demographics eliminated me immediately and I asked the guy if it was a survey about politics,but he rang off as I am sure he was keen to call the next person……..

    • veutoviper 7.1

      Interesting … Roy Morgan has not done a NZ political poll since Oct/Nov 2017 but they still do other types of surveys, eg marketing surveys, from time to time. For example back in May 2018 they did a survey on attitudes, satisfaction etc with the main banks.

      • Molly 7.1.1

        I was contacted about a month ago saying they were from Roy Morgan, about a political poll. My answers were not allowed in the binary choices they offered, and I ended up removing myself from the process.

        • veutoviper 7.1.1.1

          Again interesting, because there were rumours about the time of the last Colmar Brunton poll that another public poll was expected at about the same time and this did not eventuate. Or was it the Colmar Brunton poll before that??

          The latest two Colmar Brunton polls have been conducted from Monday, 15 October to Friday 19 October, and from Sat 24 November to Weds 28 November.

          Was your Roy Morgan call close to either of those periods?

          • Molly 7.1.1.1.1

            Probably the November one…

            I did end up exiting the interview. Tried to find my comment posted at the time, which would give a better indication of date, but ran out of interest in that level of accuracy… 🙂

  8. cleangreen 8

    Roy Morgan = rigged polls.

    Called me prior to 2014 election and my demographics eliminated me immediately and

    I asked the guy and he said “we don’t need your age bracket thank you, but the strange thing was he said “we have another person listening to our conversation and was monitoring it??????

    Creepy that was.

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 8.1

      they might have had their fill of single issue old men.

      • McFlock 8.1.1

        heh

        Actually, probably – older people answer the phone more, so will fill up their response quota more quickly. And are more likely to have landlines (although some pollsters do mobiles now as well).

    • James 8.2

      Again – zero evidence of rigged polls – god you sound desperate when you keep pulling that one out.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 8.2.1

        It was almost 5 years ago, but you’d think it was yesterday the way he carries on…..

        …#oldmanissues

        • BM 8.2.1.1

          I’ve instructed the woman to take me out the back and shoot me if I start displaying similar behaviours.

          • DJ Ward 8.2.1.1.1

            Self Defence Judge. Or I didn’t intend to kill him, I only wanted the relationship to get better. Or I found him dead, honest?

      • DJ Ward 8.2.2

        1:There’s rigged on purpose.
        2:There’s rigged due to demographics.
        1:There’s rigged due to propaganda on the voter.

        So 1 might be calling in party strongholds.
        So 2 might be calling an old white male, or possibly even only ladies.
        So 3 is a constant.

        Then you have fair voting.

        MAGA.

    • mpledger 8.3

      They have people (potentially) listening in so that they can make sure the interviewer actually records the responses accurately and that they are from a real person. Interviewers often have some payment dependent of how many people they interview so there is a perverse incentive to make data up (as it’s quicker then interviewing real people).

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    Simon Bridges wants input into NCEA review

    He said National would like to work with the Government on getting an education system both parties could agree on, so it wouldn’t have to be changed every time there was a new Government.

    Yeah, they don’t have to be changed every time there’s a new government – only after National has been at it and fucked things up through their ignorance and ideology.

    • Kevin 9.1

      National have always been keen on bipartisanship after the fact.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1

        Definitely didn’t see them looking for bipartisanship for National Standards or the RONs or pretty much anything really.

  10. Herodotus 10

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a
    https://www.labour.org.nz/kiwibuild
    KiwiBuild homes will only be sold to first home buyers. To avoid buyers reaping windfall gains, a condition of sale will require them to hand back any capital gain if sold on within 5 years.
    How easy our Minister can BREAK an Election promise and it means so little to keep one’s word !!! 10:40 “We decided…” ” Storm in a teacup”

  11. Puckish Rogue 11

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12174085

    ‘Judith Collins, National’s housing and urban development spokeswoman, said this morning it was not good enough that Twyford would not answer questions about Barclay’s departure and she plans to put questions to him in Parliament tomorrow.’

    Whatcha want, watcha want
    Whatcha gonna do
    When Judith Collins come for you
    Tell me
    Whatcha wanna do, whatcha gonna dooo
    Yeaheah
    Twyford, Twyford
    Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
    When Judith Collins comes for you

  12. OnceWasTim 12

    Oh @PR. I truly lerv you. Such a wit with an encyclopeadia of British humour and musical paraphernalia ready at short notice to display just how oh so clever you are. And most of the examples you are able to whip out at short notice are really ‘hip’.
    As the yanks would say, you must be some ‘regular guy’ and the life of the party.
    Do you take ‘your kid’ to any of those parties btw?

  13. ianmac 13

    Hooray! James had two goes at baiting and failed to score any dollars. Well done people. (Remember he gets $10 for each response to his baits.)

  14. ianmac 14

    On Q&A last night Phil Twyford was asked over and over but refused to make any comment over this. No doubt Judith will make a big fuss tomorrow.

    “KiwiBuild boss Stephen Barclay is in an employment dispute with the Government department overseeing the massive house construction scheme, the Herald understands.

    Amidst growing calls for Housing Minister Phil Twyford to say why the KiwiBuild head has not been performing his duties since early last month, the new Ministry of Housing and Urban Development this afternoon issued a brief statement saying that Barclay had not resigned.”

    ..issues revolve around the transfer of KiwiBuild from the Ministry of Business, Innovation, and Employment to the new Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, headed by Crisp.”

    • cleangreen 14.1

      Yes Ianmac,

      Anything inside MBIE is a total balls up as it’s inventor (Steven Joyce) the $11 million dollar man was!!!!!

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 14.1.1

        No one cares about $11m. Trifling amounts. Wouldn’t even fund…. 1/10th of the Napier to Gisborne rail line

  15. marty mars 15

    Spare a thought for sad simon this christmas – it’s gonna be tough to have a relax when the main word associated with you is untrustworthy. Time for a real big think I think simon.

    A word cloud, which UMR says was drawn from one-word answers given by a representative group, drawn from a sample size of 1000, gives a highly unflattering glimpse into perceptions of Bridges.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109229941/what-the-public-is-saying-about-simon-bridges-according-to-labours-pollsters

    • Gabby 15.1

      Must be the negative half surely. No way everybody thinks he’s a shifty little wanker.

    • Draco T Bastard 15.2

      In a statement, National appeared to question the accuracy of UMR.

      “You would never expect a Labour Party poll to be positive about the Leader of the Opposition. Labour’s polling consistently inflates Labour’s support. For example, UMR polling had Labour only 2 per cent behind in the Northcote by-election, yet National won by almost six points,” a spokesman for the National Party said.

      And there you have it. Proof that National thinks that polls should be biased and that they don’t understand the difference between polling and an election.

      • BM 15.2.1

        UMR is just telling Labour what it want’s to hear.

        Left wingers are so disconnected from reality and full of their own self-importance they’d probably fire a polling company for returning bad results.

        Because obviously, they’re doing it wrong, as we’re so fucking amazing and everyone loves what we’re doing

        They’d tell Labour that 99% of New Zealanders think Ardern walks on water if it keeps them the polling contract

  16. Pete 16

    I see Nat supporters are full retard because apparently the PM made some comment about the Auckland murder.

    Let’s see, she says something like that shouldn’t happen in New Zealand so she should resign?

    Whether the poll numbers are 41 or 46, add them together you’d exceed their IQs.

    • cleangreen 16.1

      Pete, 100% there.

      These arrogant Natz are certainly becoming sad today as if something has hit a raw nerve with them.

      Come on you sad sack NatZ, – tell us your story didums.

      Boohoo!!

  17. greywarshark 17

    Bryan Gould has some interesting things to say about television developments here.
    http://www.bryangould.com/public-television/
    Despite the efforts of socially aware programme-makers such as Bryan Bruce, issues such as these scarcely receive the attention they need and deserve; the national debate is the poorer for their neglect.

    The good news, however, is that “public” television is back on the agenda, courtesy of none other than Bryan Bruce himself. Bryan has established a new website, called New Zealand Public Television. The new site, which anyone can access for nothing at http://www.nzptv.org.nz, has a dual purpose.

    First, it identifies programmes, from both New Zealand and around the world, that explore issues of interest to New Zealanders, whether living here or overseas, and makes them available to a Kiwi viewership. The site, although primarily provided for a domestic audience, will undoubtedly be of great value to ex-pat Kiwis and to those on holiday or living overseas who may miss programmes about issues that are making waves at home.

  18. Why not use the time in prison wisely ? Reading + writing lessons / budgeting classes / getting work ready / maybe learn a trade. Anger and time management All these could take place in the prison. Prisoners should come out of prison better educated than when they went in.

    • Puckish Rogue 18.1

      They should but how do you make someone learn when they don’t want to

    • BM 18.2

      How old are you Patricia?

      • cleangreen 18.2.1

        Are you just sick BM or sick of old people?

        You seem to have Tuppence Shrewsbury disease!! – are you one and the same?

        That is showing a real sickness you troll.

        Say something constructive you twerp.

        • BM 18.2.1.1

          Suck my balls, you whiny old fuck.

          [How about you take the rest of the night off, BM? I’ve got a feeling you’re a comment or two away from saying something really, really stoopid and I’m one of the few people here who’d miss you. TRP]

  19. Observer Tokoroa 19

    Hi Patricia

    I get called a shit head by some chap who calls himself “Draco T Bastard”. But I know that his foul language means i have hit a nerve.

    But I am appalled That BM has been allowed to attempt to insult you. Your entry above is excellent.

    Men who use foul language are always drunkards. Useless bums.

  20. Morrissey 20

    Ingrid Hipkiss grinned vacuously and called
    Ruth Money a “victim’s advocate” this morning.

    a.m., Newshub, Tuesday 11 December 2018

    Flashback to Manurewa, ten years ago….

    Late one night in 2008, a man called Bruce Emery chases down a fifteen year old boy and stabs him repeatedly, killing him. Emery is Pākehā , his victim, Pihema Cameron, is Māori. What follows this killing will turn out to be one of the most vicious and disgraceful sagas of racist hatred in this country’s sordid history. Taking their lead from the Crown Prosecutor, who routinely dismisses the dead boy as “a tagger”, the media unleashes a seemingly non-stop tirade of abuse and belittlement against not the killer, but the victim. Perhaps most disgustingly of all, one of the loudest and most vociferous denouncers of the dead boy and his “useless” family is an organization called the “Sensible Sentencing Trust”. In a rare moment of moral decency, Noelle McCarthy memorably confronted that organization’s Grand Dragon about the affair three years later. [1]

    Fast forward to a.m. News at 7:30 this morning…..

    In a story related to the murder of British tourist Grace Millane, smiling but vacuous newsreader Ingrid Hipkiss refers to someone called Ruth Money as a “victim’s advocate.” In fact, contrary to that descriptor, Ruth Money is a disciple of Garth “The Knife” McSticker. Money parted from the S.S. Trust not because it was a bunch of racist knife enthusiasts, but because of a disagreement over political tactics. [2]

    Now, anyone with an I.Q. in triple figures would know that; Ingrid Hipkiss, however, seems oblivious.

    After the news, anchor Duncan Garner weighs in with a typically weighty, thoughtful observation:

    “Y’know, f you were a visitor from Ma-a-a-aars, you’d think that the world was quite an evil place.”

    Less than a minute later, Garner makes the following extraordinarily foolish contention:

    “Chris Finlayson is the brightest person to ever serve in parliament. He’d have the biggest brain in parliament.”

    Sports meathead Mark Richardson and Ingrid Hipkiss are reduced to a stunned, disbelieving silence. Remember, Hipkiss has just had the gall or the brass or the hide or (most likely) the naïveté to read out with a straight face that Ruth Money was “a victim’s advocate.” But even she is stunned at that pronouncement from Garner.

    After the silence, Mark Richardson laughs: “How do you KNOW that?”
    .
    .
    .
    Garner did proffer an answer; I know that because I saw his lips moving. But his words were drowned out in a torrent of criticism from the crew at Chez Breen. I picked up the phrase “that stupid c**t” from Hector Stoop and “Oh my GOD! Ha ha ha ha ha!” from the lovely Serena Sopwith-Fotherington amidst the general hubbub.

    [1] https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/noelle-mccarthy-swallowed-vomit-for-15.html
    [2] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64746950/Sensible-Sentencing-Trust-Garth-McVicars-election-bid-cause-of-division

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