Labour leader David Shearer immediately called on police to seize Mr Dunne’s emails and put him under oath to swear his innocence.
That moral high ground should last about as long as it takes to extend the logic to Labour MP Phil Goff, who was leaked sensitive Cabinet documents relating to Foreign Affairs. Labour would scream constitutional outrage if his emails were seized and he was made to name the leaker.
Like journalists, MPs don’t reveal their sources. But if leaking was criminal, half the National Government and its Labour predecessor would be locked up. Helen Clark once famously declared that as prime minister, by definition, she couldn’t leak. In other words, everything was secret until she or her government decided it wasn’t.
This doesn’t bode well for David Shearer as the sole arbiter and gate keeper of SIS and GCSB wrongdoing.
In the interests of openess and transparancy in defence of our democracy the Labour opposition and should be encouraging all government MPs as Peter Dunne has done, to ‘blow the whistle’ on illegal and corrupt dealings that they come across in their parliamentary work.
The Labour Party need ta leader who is experienced, sure footed, principled and competent. Able to work with others without being an autocrat. And at the very least be able to string more than a few words together with out getting tongue tied.
If Labour are ever to manage a coalition government made up of disparate parties and viewpoints, they will need a leader who stops continually floundering completely out of his depth.
“In the interests of openess and transparancy in defence of our democracy the Labour opposition and should be encouraging all government MPs as Peter Dunne has done, to ‘blow the whistle’ on illegal and corrupt dealings that they come across in their parliamentary work.”
Dunne isn’t a whistleblower, the report was going to be released a few days later anyway. He’s just a sad, bored old man who let his little head do his thinking for him. Shearer is right, it’s now a matter for the cops to sort out.
Shearer should keep his head down and leave it to Peters to stalk the battlefield and bayonet the wounded.
Peters has all the ammunition, the emails will out one way or the other, the whole story segues pretty well into the US leaks story, so it has at least 5 months of media to run. More if there’s a Police investigation.
And with Banks functionally gone…
…Net result for Peters is he’s closer to being primary kingmaker against the Greens leading up to Nov 2014.
There has been talk of comparing Key to Muldoon which I agree with. I compare Shearer to Rowling.
There needs to be a commission of inquiry into Dunne and the terms of reference need to cover
Why the PM is not prepared to expose the Dunne emails? The reporter could be given immunity.
I think that Dunne is more of a threat to Key than Key losing Dunne’s vote in the House as Key is protecting Dunne. The threat could be exposing Key about his knowledge of Dotcom and Fletcher has protected Key.
Sir Ferguson is a friend of Dunne’s and resides in Dunne’s electorate. Either or both Vance and Ferguson know the truth because Dunne knows how treacherous Key can be and requires insurance.
I think that Dunne gets off on being a power vote in the house and that he got himself in too deep.
Combined the Labour Green vote 15,489 is only 3,275 behind national’s making Ohariu officially a marginal seat.
The Greens have not seriously contested electorate seats and instead have relied on the party vote to win seats..
The Greens have no chance of winning the Ohariu seat. By seriously contesting this seat, they would only achieve a greater defeat for the Labour candidate.
Nationally the Greens need to work with Labour to get National out. This is a given. In Ohariu Belmont, tactically, the best thing the Greens could do. Is to help their potential coalition partner gain the treasury benches.
This means that the Greens will need to stand in solidarity with the Labour candidate.
The Green Party should put up a candidate, but that candidate should endorse the Labour Candidate at every opportunity, and call on all Green Party supporters to tactically vote Labour.
Even the Green Party billboards should call on a tactical vote for the Labour candidate.
The justly famous Labour Party electoral machine should descend on Ohariu Belmont. Green and Labour members and supporters working together,.door knocking, canvassing, erecting billboards etc. could easily russle up the required extra three and a half thousand votes needed to achieve a comfortable win for the Labour candidate.
The Nacts are worried.
Hooton gives his spin:
…even though Ohariu is safely National’s, a by-election would be unwelcome as it would create uncertainty about the stability of the present government, which would have a “terrible impact” on economic confidence and certainty.
@ Jenny
“The Greens have not seriously contested electorate seats and instead have relied on the party vote to win seats.” That has been the case since Jeanette Fitzsimmons lost Coromandel – but she seemed pretty serious to me. I think we should start to seriously contest electorate seats once more; despite MMP, electorate seats seem to have greater mana than list in our political culture. If Chauvel was still around, or there was some quid pro quo on offer from Labour, then the scheme you propose might be worth the tarnishing of the Green party’s reputation that would come with pulling an Epsom.
Plus; really? You’re leading with a quote from Tracy Watkins?? I’m no fan of the modern Labour Party or Mr Mumblefuck, but please! I can’t be bothered wading through her article, but would just point out that Dunne is not PM, and her interpretation of Clarke’s “couldn’t leak” line is peculiar.
Should we have legal protection for whistle-blowers and leakers? Probably, though I imagine there’d have to be some limits on that (time of war, false information; to mention two). Should not politicians be accountable to the current law; even if I, or they, personally disagree with that law? Unequivocably yes!
Did Dunne leak the Kitteridge report, or is he being set up to take the fall for some one else? It seems to sit strangely with his stated intention of supporting the bill for GCSB expanded powers. If he leaked, I applaud his action; but he should still pay the price. If you or I were to break the law, and get caught; then there would be consequences.
If no law has been broken, then there is no need for police involvement. That’s one for the lawyers amongst us, and certainly; any emails that are irrelevant to the issue should not be made public. Dunne does have a right to privacy, despite what journalists and opposition MPs might wish.
The movement began in the late 19th century with reasonable goals. Both scientists and members of the general public were interested in using their newly acquired knowledge of inheritance to work toward making improvements in the human “stock.” But, with time, the eugenics movement became a tool for discriminating against and harming individuals and groups. By the end of World War II, the word “eugenics” was forever linked to acts of discrimination and extreme cruelty.
Godwin wasn’t implied. Andrew Mellon was the most visible connection between he eugenics movement and fluoridation.
Founded by Andrew and Richard Mellon, financiers of the aluminium giant Alcoa, the Mellon Institute specialised in conducting research for industry. For generations, it was a leading defender of the asbestos industry, producing research to show that mesothelioma was not caused by asbestos. Andrew Mellon was at the head of the Public Health Service when it dispatched dentist H. T. Dean (“the father of fluoridation”) to study fluoride’s dental effects. http://www.fannz.org.nz/history.php
It’s definitely a massive conspiracy that involves everyone in the medical and dental professions. They’ve even fooled the British Medical Journal.
Systematic review of water fluoridation…
Conclusions: The evidence of a beneficial reduction in caries should be considered together with the increased prevalence of dental fluorosis. There was no clear evidence of other potential adverse effects.
It’s definitely a massive conspiracy that involves everyone in the medical and dental professions. They’ve even fooled the British Medical Journal.
The good old “too big to be true” fallacy.
“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
— Prince Phillip – Duke of Edinburgh, leader of the World Wildlife Fund – quoted in ‘Are You Ready For Our New Age Future?’, Insiders Report, American Policy Center, December ’95
“The United Nation’s goal is to reduce population selectively by encouraging abortion, forced sterilization, and control of human reproduction, and regards two-thirds of the human population as excess baggage, with 350,000 people to be eliminated per day.”
– Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier, Nov. 1991
“reads like the Hail Mary from the religion of universal progress”
SIR FRANCIS GALTON, FATHER OF EUGENICS: “It must be introduced into the national conscience, like a new religion. It has, indeed, strong claims to become an orthodox religious, tenet of the future, for eugenics co-operate with the workings of nature by securing that humanity shall be represented by the fittest races…. I see no impossibility in Eugenics becoming a religious dogma among mankind.” (Eugenics: Its Definition Scope and Aims, 1904)
I know people will be shocked to hear this, but it turns out that Ugly Truth’s Cousteau “quote”, though regurgitated on a number of nutbar sites, is not actually correct. Check out page 13:
What should we do to eliminate suffering
and disease? It’s a wonderful idea but perhaps
not altogether a beneficial one in the long run.
If we try to implement it we may jeopardize
the future of our species.
It’s terrible to have to say this. World
population must be stabilized and to do that
we must eliminate 350,000 people per day.
This is so horrible to contemplate that we
shouldn’t even say it. But the general situa¬
tion in which we are involved is lamentable.
And yet solutions must exist. . . .
It’s a question of cost. We need $400 billion
a year for fifteen years. To provide people with
safe drinking water. To provide schooling
for girls and low pensions for the elderly.
With $4 billion over fifteen years we can not
only reduce demographic pressure but halt
population growth.
Cousteau was expressing ideas not entirely unfamiliar in this forum, e.g.:
Fifteen years ago, when I was in the United States, I tried to construct a mathematical model to find out how many people our planet could support with the income, purchasing power, and amenities enjoyed by the average American at that time. The data at my disposal were not very precise and right from the start I knew that the approximation would be of the order of 40 to 50 per cent. At that time I was friendly with the director of the Océanographie Laboratory of the University of Southern California, whose researchers served my colleagues and myself as advisers. With the parameters I had at my disposal, I came up with the figure of 700 million. Seven hundred million people enjoying a standard of living comparable to that of the average American!
Fifteen years ago our planet was unable to provide an agreeable life for more than 700 million people! World population was then four billion
He certainly wasn’t outlining or speaking for official UN policy at the time.
Ugly Truth is a idiot with a confirmation bias to the point of delusion.
come, come, OAK. I don’t think he was being intentionally deceitful.
I suspect UT is just an idiot – or still has many years in hand to learn that (as Abraham Lincoln once said) “nine out of ten attributed quotations on the internet are bunk”.
and Muzza
Your comments are very lively, interesting and provocative. Though they make me think of Shakespeare “it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Nothing personal however.
What, haven’t you seen Dr Strangelove ? United States Air Force Strategic Air Command General Jack D. Ripper, no less, articulates a compelling argument.
I first became aware of it, Rhinocrates, during the physical act of love. A profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.
That means we can never talk about N@zi Germany in any argument ever, or even refer to a phenomenon that has connections with N@zi Germany. That’s not what Godwin’s law is about. Were UT to compare you to a N@zi or H1tler, that would be invoking Godwin’s law. Simply talking about N@zis doesn’t count (not that that was what UT was doing anyway).
It’s not a real law, and the fact that I called you moron doesn’t mean that I was angry. Calling you a moron is a way of drawing attention to your not-so-clever avoidance of the real issue, sort of like what you’re doing now.
“Actually, proving Godwin’s law is exactly what UT did. He replied to my comment by leaping angrily to eugenics. That’s a de facto Godwin right there”
No, eugenics has previously been raised in this debate, and someone made the connection between eugenics and fluoride within the fluoridation debate. Irrespective of whether the connection is valid within the debate, it’s not being used as a way of calling you or anyone else a N@zi (as part of approaching an endpoint of a long futile argument that has degenerated to that level).
It doesn’t matter how angry UT’s posts were or if they were having a go at you. You can disagree with UT’s side of the debate all you like, but your calling on Godwin’s law was false.
Fair call from where you’re sitting, Weka, but as I was unaware of the rest of the debate, leaping straight to eugenics after insulting me is very much a Godwin, as I understand the concept.
Remember, I was replying specifically to the link to KB that UT provided, not the wider debate about fluoride. I made a comment, and UT responded with an insult and a reference to something closely associated with 1930’s Germany. That’s a Godwin and a lightening fast one at that.
I haven’t been involved in the wider debate, but now that the link to eugenics has been made, I’m all the more convinced that fluoride in water is a good thing and removing it is an attack on the poor in particular.
Godwin’s law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies)is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage. It states: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.
Weka, the point of Godwin’s law was to realize when a debate no longer served any useful purpose. The argument was that everyday society was so far removed from Nazi Germany that any debate that involved making comparisons with the Nazi’s version of fascism was logically untenable.
But that was back when Homeland Security was a term that you would attribute to one of Hitler’s people.
“the point of Godwin’s law was to realize when a debate no longer served any useful purpose.”
Sure.
“The argument was that everyday society was so far removed from Nazi Germany that any debate that involved making comparisons with the Nazi’s version of fascism was logically untenable.”
Um, I thought the point was that eventually all arguments have the propensity to reach the point where someone can no longer argue reasonably and so calls someone a N@zi (and thus loses by default).
“But that was back when Homeland Security was a term that you would attribute to one of Hitler’s people.”
But it’s not like fascism hasn’t existed since WW2 until now. The point isn’t whether the analogy is close to being true, it’s that if someone needs to use the analogy in the first place they probably need to step away from the computer for a while.
You weren’t drawing an analogy, which is why I cried foul on invoking the law.
Nah, the point of ‘Godwin’s law’ was to test a hypothesis that memes could be countered with, err, counter memes.
Godwin was playing around with this idea, coined his ‘law’ and seeded it in vraious threads where N@zis were mentioned. And it took off, as we see here.
“Um, I thought the point was that eventually all arguments have the propensity to reach the point where someone can no longer argue reasonably and so calls someone a N@zi (and thus loses by default).”
That’s like saying that people are incapable or admitting defeat when debating, or always eventually resort to ad-hominems or abuse. It’s just an observation of ego in action, hopefully there are people out there who don’t have to validate their own sense of self-worth by always getting the last word in or throwing a hissy fit if they don’t.
“Nah, the point of ‘Godwin’s law’ was to test a hypothesis that memes could be countered with, err, counter memes.”
That’s an interesting interpretation.
At one end of the scale you’ve got Godwin’s original words and at the other you’ve got how his words have been interpreted as a means of deflecting attention away from a particular topic.
You can pretty much count on Wikipedia to be wrong about anything important relating to law and contemporary fascism.
A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin’s Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin’s Law has effectively forfieted the argument.
Usenet There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin’s Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin’s Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
Yes, because in practical terms the application of Godwin’s “law” meant that the argument was over. Wikipedia is seriously f****d up about these sort of issues.
Ugly Truth
Since you are the arbiter of what the truth is, you should not allow Wikipedia to continue in its confused, incomplete form. You should be correcting it and your communications indicate you have the knowledge and tools to do so as people are allowed to do I understand. Unless you have been banned for some good reason.
Try to argue with words of reason only Ugly Truth. Keep the sharp stick etc for when you have put a good argument and can’t win through. It’s too early in the process yet to let the language fly. Keep something in reserve can’t you.
Weka, Prism, thanks for the comments about my language. The reason I do it is to attract attention to issues of importance. I’d prefer not to see it in debate.
Since you regard Urban Dictionary as so superior to Wikipedia as a repository of human knowledge, you may be interested in knowing that their definition for “Ugly Truth” is:
“Finiding [sic] out after you picked a girl up at a strip club that she actually has a dick.”
Pasupial, on the other hand, isn’t defined yet. After today, I fully expect it to be; “some one who should be fucked with a sharp stick”. But given your evident propensities I suppose I should regard that as a compliment.
PS/ Apologies to any transgendered who may be offended – just a wee taste of their own medicine for a repugnant bigot.
Was in edit mode when timed out, and for some reason that wiped my nom de clave [which is now back above]. Should end:
PS/ Apologies to any transgendered who may be offended. The propensities line was about him (at least I assume Ugly is a male); picking someone up at a strip club (ew!), rather than her having a dick. Just a wee taste of their own medicine for a repugnant bigot.
Well there are a lot of ugly truths around. I would like to see them debated with the f word and other such strong language left for final shots of dissatisfaction not thrown around promiscuously. Or what about venting in acronym – so trendy – FFS.
What bitch fight? TC got his ass kicked and now he’s just running around in circles trying to make demands.
@TheContrarian
UT: You lied when you said: “So nothing. You have nothing. No facts, just assertion.”
TC: That is assertion.
UT: Facts are expressed as assertions.
UT: Do you deny the first fact, that fluoride is a poison which accumulates in the body?
TC: No.
let’s assume that your interpretation of events is correct (doubtful) and TC “got his ass kicked” (although I suggest someone should call the SPCA).
That suggests that you brought your gloating here from the sewer for approval/respect/awe.
So beneath all your bluster lies a scared little kid seeking validation from others. Well, you won’t get it from me: you’re a shallow little peon who thinks that parroting the few blogs that coincide with your egotistical bias is the same as profound philosophical thought. You are an ass’s arse, with similar results.
The BMJ article linked above is a good place to start. A taster:
“There were four analyses that indicated a significant increase in risk of fracture and five that indicated a significant decrease in risk at the 5% significance level.”
Oh noes! The conspirators are divided among themselves!!!
With the NSA situation finally coming to mainstream view, I think you might find, the likes of Alex Jones, grow their audience, accordingly!
Jones has been covering the NSA having access into telecoms providers networks, for years!
Why is it , Voice, you and people who share views such as yours, find Alex Jones so hard to ignore?
While not a fan of Jones, like all commentators, he has a place, and many of the subjects he has been leading on for many years, which people have, *blown off* are now coming out, as facts!
The real truth coming out doesn’t make fantasists like Jones any more credible. The reason I posted the clip is because it’s a visual example of how crazed he is. Anybody that can make Andrew Neil look sensible is not to be trusted.
Trust him or not, the fact that he is getting more media exposure is an indication that there is a growing interest in “conspiracy theory” type material. Blowing him off as a loon is too easy.
Voice, I do agree with the second half of your comment, in so much as Jones does not do himself any favours with the ranting, and such like. As always , it should not detract from the message, and information, being delivered!
If you believe, that subject matter Jones has been making information, public on for years, does not make him more credible, you’re as deluded, as you claim , the like of Jones are!
Simply, it comes down to a couple of key points
1: Fear, what else might people like Jones, be correct on, that people such as yourself have derided him over!
2: Ego, and the belief that such *conspiracy theorists*, are intellectually beneath you, because how could a *conspiracy theorist*, possibly know/understand/have access to more informed knowledge/information, that *thy self*!
These two points, sum up, more than adequately, the inability to allow people, such as Jones, their fair dues!
The problem with your analysis is that Jones is correct on nothing and I don’t sneer at him because he is intellectually my inferior. You may be right that he is, but it’s not for me to say.
This is from prisonplanet.com, Jones’ site. Is he wrong about it?
In 1907, more than a decade before Hitler began his ascent to power in Germany, the U.S. had already enacted its first eugenics sterilization law. According to historical accounts, then-Indiana Governor J. Frank Hanly approved a law mandating sterilization of certain individuals in state custody, building on systems of thought already covertly established in the late 1800s that alleged traits like criminality, mental problems, and even being poor were hereditary.
So what you’re saying is the fact relating to the US origin of eugenics (from his site) is correct, even though he is correct on nothing like you said before?
It would probably just be simpler if you admitted that he is sometimes right.
is that his assertion, as in something that he discovered? Or is it merely a restatement of previously known information rather than an analysis or prediction that is his, and that therefore goes straight to his credibility?
I’m sure Alex Jones has said that “two plus two equals four”. One could say that therefore “Jones is correct on nothing” is false. But this would be a trite piece of pedantry made to distract from the substantive truth.
There is a scene in Papillon where Henri Charrière, reflects that he may be innocent but he is guilty of a wasted life, a far greater crime. Reflecting on the years I have been aware of Peter Duune is also an exercise in waste. I cannot see what he has achieved other than steering with the tiller set directly to the bow, a grey unbending certainty.
I was first aware of Peter when he was President at Canterbury, very boring he was too, no beer chiller for student events on his agenda, a wowser par excellence. From there to Alcohol Liquor Advisory Council, maybe his only “real” job, maybe the only time I am aware of him standing for anything (old fashioned wowserism). To Labour, hand picked, and still you ask, what did he stand for? Who knows, Karori and Labour to their eternal shame allowed this man of no known meaning to flourish. Maybe his greyness reflected them.
Jumping ship to NZ Future, an amorphous blob congealing again around no real meaning or ideological direction, what did we learn apart from his ability to desert one party and sign up for the next. It becomes all about Peter and position, cabinet minister for two different parties. Still what does he stand for? Who and what is he?
What are we left with? Absolutely nothing. His legacy? A waste of our time.
Shakespeare and the death of Lady Macbeth comes to mind…”Out, out, brief candle! Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
have you seen the film Anonymous? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1521197/?ref_=sr_1
often I view a film so telling and profound, I do not need to watch another one for ages; this was one of those. I never studied Shakespeare at school, or Uni for that matter, but the Bard rocks, easier to follow than Chaucer, and some of the modern adaptations are excellent context translations. There is one with Ralph Fiennes, Coriolanus, that I would like to see.
The film of Onegin with Fiennes is excellent too.
So you read the dilemma of the candle in the wind, never knowing who to turn to when the rain sets in. As the ‘Spengler’ link from C.V yesterday identifies, all the artistic modes of cultural transmission just get re# 😉
Not seen Anonymous….will compare notes when I have. I ignored Shakespeare at school, started reading it when the internet bored me senseless. Corialanus, wonderful, also….liked the Richard the Third film too. Much good that does me with the world, lots of useless information handed down for me to spout…in the words of Morrissey..
I am the son and heir
Of nothing in particular
aren’t we all, ‘But Wait, There’s More’, Michelle Boag, the Suzanne Clip Massage Pillow of the National Party.
Takes a while to ‘master’ discerning use of the Internet yet we may have it down pat for now. What next? Like the half-eaten apple-worm, remains to be seen. Who would be a post-modern social archaeologist aye! Still, delays and distracts from excessive anaesthetization,zzzzzzzzzz.
Indeed! I’m also hoping that when we get PS Television back, she might feature prominently. It’ll take something like that to finally bury the ‘rent-a-commentator’ electronic media we see at the moment.
Yep – Face to Face apparently wasn’t a roaring success, however in the absence of anything similar, we might find something like that would have a better run today. But as you say, radio is her forte.
She is fiercely intelligent, and extremely well read. Many don’t like her manner, but at least she stands for the principles of the 4th Estate.
There are others of course – scattered around the spectrum and often parked up in off peak time slots.
I remember all those harsh angles and close ups. Really unnecessary, not only because they were distracting, but because Hill is enough of a drawcard herself and doesn’t need faux windowdressing.
My first impression of Kim Hill was watching her interview John Pilger on Face to Face. Thought she was an embarrassment to NZ journalism, and couldn’t bring myself to watch her again. Was inspired to read John Pilger though – so not a complete waste of time.
Part of the episode is on NZonScreen but I recall her being quite antagonistic from the get go – she really seemed to want him to admit that NZ should join the US in their War on Terror.
Was surprised to find out how many enjoy her interviews. After all this time, I may be able to listen again without prejudice and give it another go.
Do give her a go. It’s sad to realise that idols often have clay feet, and Pilger is one of them. He may be on the right side, but he seems to have a real problem with women who ask questions.
It’s perhaps epitomised by this series, Edward Said’s Reith Lectures “Gods that Always Fail”:
Tim
Do you honestly think we can get PS tv back? It would be a great example of having a vital left wing in politics again. But unlikely to happen. The user pays aspect of it predominates rather than the connected, informed citizen who can make good political decisions.
We won’t be able to afford it as we end up earning similar to the 1930s and go onto ever flatter tax rates. (Someone on radio talking about what we pay for prison meals – $4.50 a day per person I thought I heard.)
You’re probably going to regret you ever got me started, but “Do you honestly think we can get PS tv back?”
My answer is YES – with provisos of course.
[ Actually I’ll try and limit myself because my self imposed 1 week ban hasn’t been that successful, and (I THINK it is still in force until tomorrow).
I THINK I might have pissed Irish Bill off close to a week ago by becoming borderline personal (not sure) – I just have a certain disposition that coaxes a fight in me based on what is sauce for ganders is source for gooses .
The likes of Soimon Brudges and Labour’s old guard, (among many others, often lap up the sauce but can’t handle the kick-back). There are also certain contributors on here that are quick to accuse (and to assume – Popsicles, TC’s, other provocateurs and their ilk whose only desire is to exercise their egos) – who quite frankly PISS ME OFF. (There’s a popsicle, for example, that accused me of homophobia, sexism, and a number of other things – oh…. racism even, that doesn;t actually know me from the bar of soap he intentionally dropped in the shower)
AND in any event, I wouldn’t presume to impose on the owners, or ‘stakeholders’ of this site – I’d prefer to just observe, take it all in, and admire their gumption for making the whole thing possible. (I realise that sounds very Mora-esque, but I’m not the one that’s invested the time and effort in providing this platform – so it’s on their terms of course! In other words – I’m an anonymouse Guest – anonymouse for very good reason, and it’d be pretty damn crass of me to try and intentionally offend). Yep – the ban isn’t up, and I’m still in ‘simmer down mode’ ]
So …. YES – we can get PS TV (NOT ‘State Service’ TV) back.
It’ll require:
– A Curran to put her money where her mouth is (and/or any other of the alternative political parties spokesfolk on b’casting)
– Her parliamentary colleagues (from both sides of the aisle) to rediscover their souls.
– Her/Them (or whoever else) to devise a legal and political mechanism that ensures any future attempt to tamper is
a) difficult
b) politically embarrassing
It’s a challenge I know – because the lack of commitment to PSTV in recent times has been really fucking pathetic:
– Labour (last) made a bit of a fatal mistake in that they never really thought past the short term. (Funding issues; those in charge of what was supposed to be our TV PSB:
a) not really being THAT committed to it,
b) essentially being over-ambitious and egotistically driven;
c) putting the commercial imperative before the public interest;
d) being over-ambitious and egotistically driven;
e) being over-ambitious and egotistically driven;
f) being over-ambitious and egotistically driven;
g) not actually understanding the nature of PSB and what it is about.
– The issue of funding and how we might ensure it remains a viable proposition in an environment of various divergence AND convergence.
– A population/generation that’s never been given the opportunity to experience a media alternative
-etc., etc., etc.
DISTRACTION: (Oh GAWD ….. Jummy Jum is blaring in the background and dear old Rosie MacLeeUdd is ‘On the Panel’ – given my anonymouse background it’s hard to turn her off but I’ll continue (in the hope you’re interested in the opinion of moi that you asked for). Thankfully she’s alongside someone half decent!
Here’s an expose of my prejudices: HOW the fuck did she ever shack up with THAT?1)
She comes across as such a nice passive lady these days, and increasingly, her newsprint columns are lessening in the intensity of their offensiveness. (Oh sorry Darling)
BACK TO THE POINT – and given the above:
YES ….. PSTV is utterly possible in a population of 4 mill.
I’ve given the provisos.
Sure there are going to be difficulties.
– There are KORDIA’s, Munsteries of Culcha & Heritages that have completely fucked up.
– There are those (because of short term imperatives) that have undermined Freeviews; tried all sorts of unions for monetary gain (a la Heartlands, IGLOOS, protested intellectual property rights and whether or public interest and ownership rights might be an issue, etc., etc.). MOST – n fact ALL that I can see can be countered.
There are good, capable people still around that are ready, willing and able to get it all off the ground (and they aren’t ALL nasty ahrd lefties) either.
You know what…. (What?)!
The public in recent years feels alienated from government, AND many/most politicians have managed to alienate themselves from the public in some way.
They might consider the idea that a true electronic (because that’s the only way that it’s possible in 21C) public sphere, a 4th Estate that adheres AND actually understands the concept, and a media mix that incorporates PSB (radio.tv, internet, and whatever else emerges), commercial & non-commercial; risk taking and compliant, is THE ONLY way they might earn back some credibility.
Told ya you wouldb’t want to get me started ( and I’ve limited myself completely – it could have been much worse)
I could have gone on about HOW the system might be implemented (with due regard to the dominance of SKY; the disposition of Freeview and its intentional neutering; the neo-lib concern for exclusivity of the ownership of property – including intellectual property – ALL that kaka.
Yes indeed! At long last, someone has Key on the backfoot with him even using the Shearer-type ‘ums and ers’.
This is what real journalism is all about.
All power to Kim Hill!
– – – – and let’s give her support when the right-wing vultures descend on her. And they will.
Poor old John did not get a chance to use his trademark, “Um. Now let’s take a step back……” so that your question gets lost.
And “I wouldn’t agree with that proposition. I have plenty of experts who would say otherwise….”
Thanks Kim Hill. And fancy getting Mr Key to front for a serious issue on National Radio!!
“Who set the parameters for the enquiry which did not give the power to question under oath?”
“We did.”
“What a silly boy you are John.”
(Paraphrased.)
Yep, ShonKey sounded rather billious, but he also must have had a head set on direct to Crosby Textor HQ, because for someone with such bad recall he effortlessly tossed in references to two Labour MPs who got in tight spots. Yet as the supreme “Yes Minister” he can barely remember anything about the GCSB like appointing his mate and on and on.
Kim is a treasure, and while she has been pressed into service on Morning Report it would be great if she could stay around for another 12 months. She played a significant role in the 90s drilling into the Nats and NZ1.
TM I think that too many NACTs sound as if they were odious little bullies at school who managed to dominate with name calling and vituperation at annoying opposition. It suits Key to come out with a yah-boo about others – if they did it why shouldn’t we – is the argument. Even if ‘they’ actually didn’t do it, calling some mistake to the public’s mind with a lie of fact, just confuses past memories and obscures the present.
It is interesting that Labour used Trevor Mallard rather than Helen Clark doing the roasting in parliament, yet John Key has found his true calling as being the mocking voice for the NACTs.
She sure does. Key always sounds like a mildly-educated fool, but Kim makes him sound like a schoolboy trying to use the ‘dog ate my homework’ excuse for his first assignment.
Press Alert: Auckland mayoral Candidate Penny Bright:
PROTEST! Against the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill , at Auckland,
TODAY Monday 10 June from 9.30am – 11am!
Social Services Select Committee are hearing verbal submissions IN AUCKLAND on this Bill, from 9am – 4.30pm, MONDAY 10 June 2013.
Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics”high”population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.
Petition number: 2011/64
Presented by: Holly Walker
Date presented: 30 May 2013
Referred to: Social Services Committee
_________________________________________________________
Wow, I have listened to Kim Hill interviewing John Key, the PM just about over an hour ago, and what a breath of fresh air is she bringing to Morning Report on Radio NZ National!
I have not heard any journalist putting the hard questions to any politician like this for bloody years! It is impressive and revealing at the same time. It shows that most journalist and reporters out there are pathetic in their job these days, not up to it, or not interested in asking a Prime Minister or lesser ministers or other politicians the questions that deserve to be asked:
Check it out yourselves! This shows what a dodgy and insincere person John Key is, he is also presenting himself as a rather whimpish, weak PM now, and listening to his unconvincing answers to some question, it is clear, his days are numbered. Yes, Key is on his way out! He does not sound like he is much interested in doing a proper job and holding his ministers or support party “leaders” to account.
A laissez fair propagator displaying a very laissez faire attitude, letting Dunne off the hook too early and being short of answers. Key is showing to be a rather irresponsible, slack leader, who only acts resolutely and ruthlessly when rarely re-arranging cabinet or biting, shouting at and abusing disliked opposition members and leaders.
He may have been the smiling assassin in his business days, but hey, he does not sound like one as PM at present. Maybe it is all getting too much for him?
This is a must listen item! It could prove to be historic!
Again no edit allowed, why? I just tried to correct a grammar mistake and add a few words, but not authorised to edit with 4 minutes still left? Something seems wrong with the edit function at times.
Hi Xtasy
The current shower intend to copy the Tory Toffs in the U$K in the persecution of hapless bennies. here’s a link for you to follow what’s going on there and could come here! 🙂 🙁
Yes, it is disgusting, and it is clear, it is the increasing divide between a small lot at the top raking in millions or in some cases billions, and more and more slipping down the income ladder, which causes injustice.
But by using such tactics, the tories use undermining tactics to keep enough lulled into the belief, that it is the beneficiaries that are the problem. It is a major diversion tactic.
By the way, as I was told, Housing NZ tenants do already get statements sent regularly, telling them what the “market rental cost” is for the property they live in, and I believe one also told me he got the valuation (based on the Council’s valuation, or even market valuation) sent in it.
So Housing NZ are already “reminding” their tenants, how “much” they are being “subsidised” and thus supposedly “privileged” to suck of the states’ teats!
It is already underway there, and with the “investment approach” on welfare now to become the norm, I suspect that IRD will eventually send out information on how much tax payers subsidise WINZ and their “clients” for.
So that all shows, a third term of this lot must be stopped, absolutely! And Labour must be sent the message where NOT to go!
“Conspiracy theory becomes conspiracy fact yet again”
What this means undeniably of course, is that all statements from all authorities must be treated as lies and distortion as a default starting point. … a bit like conspiracy theories actually ……
What I am still trying to get my head around is that if the GCSB is able to get hold of my metadata will they then whisk it off to the US so that the NSA can add it to their accumulated data. Are we witnessing the growth of one big world wide metadatabase?
I always thought that the entire idea of Echelon was so that “allied” intelligence agencies could spy on other members’ citizens for each other and kick back useful data from an “undisclosed source”.
That and act as a permanent data suck for the US, of course.
More like the IT guy has a narcissistic personality disorder and fantasies of being James Bond, seeks international media martyrdom, and flees to – of all places – Hong Kong.
That’s a bit of a switch from when you used to accuse me of being a CIA agent, CV. But the fact of the matter is he’s a desk jockey of 10 years, not an actual operative, and that famous interview is full of alot of “I” and “me” and “my”.
Simply that it all adds up to a picture of him not being very credible or really that much of a spy. More likely this 29 year old high school and community college drop out and army wash out is working for another power. Oh look, Hong Kong….
There are lots of people in IT with few formal academic quals.
Some small names like Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates might agree.
Basically P1 is pretending that Snowden’s “credibility” is an issue. The simple fact of the matter is: Snowden has delivered the goods, they are real and verifiable, and even the NSA and senior Congressmen agree.
P1 on the other hand…is just bitching about bullshit.
More likely this 29 year old high school and community college drop out and army wash out is working for another power.
lolz, sounds like envy just because P1 can’t score a US$200K pa job with Booz Allen Hamilton because he’s not up to it, but a 29 year old high school and community college drop out and army wash out can.
Don’t fret P1, you’re not that shit that you can’t complete with Mr Snowden-Dropout-Washout!
Ah, another demonstration of CV’s preternatural ability to psychoanalyse quasi-fictional personae at a distance by means of the the internet. How droll.
Show your working. It doesn’t add up at all. There are lots of people in IT with few formal academic quals
Yep. It is as much of a personality talent as exercise in knowledge. Some of the most knowing IT people I have known have had little more than a burning desire to be good at whatever they obsessed on.
Even more (like me) have few formal qualifications in anything IT related. My main academic quals are in earth sciences and management, with a smattering of mostly 3rd year comp sci tacked on after I’d already been working the field for years (deadly boring papers).
The numbers of people qualified in comp sci or business computing who continue to be active in actual IT after a decade or two are pretty minimal. They move off into management or business analysis. The field is full of people who just like doing it and who (like me) resist attempts to move them out of the hands-on IT.
It’s an interesting phenomenon yes?
In my experience, the best IT ‘professionals’ (specifically those that cut code, and who over time come to despise – or are at least cynical of – all those BS middle and snr management BS artists who shove their cost-accounting oars in at the most inappropriate of times, shove their ‘expertise’ in whilst projects are midway through, etc., etc.), are usually those that have ‘outside interests in the creative arts, or who have some sort of outlet completely divorced from ‘nerdism’.
I find it interesting that you moved from ‘management’ towards the more technical.
I shudda cudda wudda perhaps, but instead I opted for something TOTALLY divorced from IT/ITC – whatever other buzz acronym is in vogue these days. (Show me a Systems Development Life Cycle – I’ll show you Synchronous Data Link Control).
Jim (the sage) Mora has a guest on now – banging on about how small/NZ IT professionals aren’t getting a look in (AND THEY AREN’T). With all due deference to the impending IRD redevelopment. The small/ the NZ are of course completely correct – they’ve been consulted/middle & senior managed out of any sort of ‘look in’.
Fark!!! $1.5 Billion – I’d guarantee the govt and IRD success on pain of DEATH ffs!. In fact if I failed – I’d get my own son to pull the frikken trigger!
There are Joyce-like ilk who have a shit load to answer for
Yeah. From what I understand the existing systems are mostly cobol at the core with some wacking great big databases.
I mostly code highly threaded optimized c++ server style apps for tight spaces (sometimes tight hardware, sometimes massively multi-user) often with Qt/MFC and/or web front faces and/or anything else and just about any kind of data backend from old serial RS232 to wacking big databases or encrypted pipes over the net. And it keeps getting more technical the longer I stay learning because some of the older tech is still useful and keep showing up in newer tech. For instance I was surprised as hell to find stuff that I learnt back in the 80’s for doing EGA graphics screens works pretty damn well for frame buffered embedded devices.
But I avoid corporate because they never seem to manage to finish anything before some dumbarse does the new broom trick with assorted buzzwords (Telecom comes to mind) or some jerkoff “analyst” promises the customer stage 3 in stage 1 causing the inevitable stage 0 project collapse (INCIS comes to mind).
I’m afraid that I tend to agree with the IRD on this. The local IT corporate management tends to be a bit pisspoor and sloppy for anything that is system critical development. Hardly surprising when you look at the beaten down wrecks toiling with their heads low for the wage.
The problem is that the government doesn’t exactly have many people who could oversee a project at a sufficient technical depth (ie they don’t really know what their own systems really do now). So they’ll wind up spending far too much on overseas contracts and fail to bring in enough local companies on relatively minor segments to get them ready for the maintenance phases. Nett effect is that the system will be clumsy, stiff, and rigid and horrendously expensive to redevelop in the future.
Needless to say I will be avoiding the IRD project like the plague even if there were any bits of interest in there.
And the Sophie Scholl award for 2013 for extraordinary resistance surely goes to Edward Snowden.
“…I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant.” The quote from the Guardian that ensures historians will forever remember him alongside the likes of Benjamin Franklin as a hero of liberty.
Um, no – Sophie Scholl was beheaded for holding to her simple truths. Snowden is a computer geek playing secret agent man from the safety of Chinese territory. Please don’t compare them – it makes me nauseous.
If I had leaked the sort of information he had I also would probably look for refuge under the umbrella of the most powerful ‘countervailing force’ on the planet. The US has shown repeatedly that the one country it is unable to push around is China – for obvious reasons.
“He chose the city because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent”, and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.”
The decision to hole up in Hong Kong therefore seems very rational – especially given that Hong Kong remains quite westernised and so is the part of China that would likely be most amenable (and welcoming?) to an American. It was also quite close to Hawaii.
You seem to be implying that he is part of a (Chinese?) conspiracy to make wrongful allegations against the NSA (why else would you talk about his lack of credibility – i.e., believability) – despite him having provided the documents. And despite Obama appearing to acknowledge that “these programmes” do, indeed, exist.
Yep, it will be titled like “red flag raised above Radio New Zealand National studios”, the bolsheviks have seized control of our media, or something similar, I suspect.
Time to have a word with RNZ’s CEO, he will advise John Key, about staffing matters.
I was wrong X (although he probably did a brief scan of TS this morning and realised Kim Hill has the respect of folk ACROSS the political spectrum). Instead, Mathew’s little hissy fit this morning was directed at Helen Kelley. It even seemed to embarrass Rinnie Ryan (though Mike Williams remained silent), and her calls to Mathew to repent met with defiance. Any Hail Mary’s were nowhere in sight. As predicted though, Mike was there as usual to clip the ticket and give a plug for the Ghost of Paul Holmes. What sages – the pair of them – the THREE of them in fact. I am in awe!
National Party mastermind Steven Joyce almost always refuses to let Key go on Morning Report—when it’s only the avuncular (and weak) Geoff Robinson and the even weaker Simon Mercep.
So why on EARTH would Joyce agree to let Key be interviewed by Kim Hill, who has eviscerated far sharper and far more powerful men than him?
I suspect Joyce is manipulating the prime minister, and not in a caring way.
Perhaps Joyce was this morning still in bed, trying to revive himself slowly, with a terrible hangover, after a dreadful Friday afternoon and too much “medication” for stressed out nerves over all of the weekend?
National Radio certainly delivered better programming prior to the Key government taking over the reign and placing some new personalities on the board and amongst staff.
Publicly funded broadcasting simply is not a priority for this lot.
But I am sure you do prefer Radio Live or 1ZB for early morning “stimulation” anyway, so you do not forget what to put on your daily shopping list.
I have absolutely revealing information now on Professor Mansel Aylward, director of the Centre for Psychosocial and Disability Research at Cardiff University, who has been one of the top “advisors” of Paula Bennett as Minister for Social Development, thus the government, and of the ‘Health and Disability Panel’ that is in charge of overseeing and assisting the implementation of the very radical, draconian, in part most likely illegal welfare changes in decades here in New Zealand.
Under the ‘Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Act’ sickness beneficiaries will as of 15 July be turned into “jobseekers” (some with deferred status for work testing and work ability), and invalid’s beneficiaries (and some others caring for infirm) will come into the category called Supported Living Payment.
ALL will at some stage face work capacity assessments, which will be at the discretion of the Chief Executive of MSD And WINZ, thus can be repeated as they see fit, and the assessments will be designed along the ones already used by the Department of Work and Pension in the UK for years. The assessments have in part been developed with the involvement of Mansel Aylward and others, who has for his research had financial assistance by controversial private US insurance giant Unum, who changed their name repeatedly after having lost major court battles in the US about their handling of claims.
Now insiders know how bizarre and apparently controversial Professor Aylward’s interpretation of the so-called “bio psycho social model” for assessment and treatment of sick, disabled and incapacitated persons is, and how he has served UK governments and been involved in declaring many disabled and seriously ill as “fit for work”, while in fact they were not. Some indeed are known to have committed suicide due to not being able to handle pressures and facing loss of benefits.
While Aylward, a so-called “Sir” now, and also a “Dame” Carol Black are known propagators of pushing resolutely for getting sick into work, as they see the “benefits of work” being kind of the best medicine, a post on ACC Forum has just revealed to me that Aylward is nothing but a strong adherent of “pseudo sciences” of his own inventions. He claims that most that insist on having mental health conditions and physical health issues are merely suffering from “illness belief”.
He seems to be keen on serving government agencies and employers to save costs, by pushing sick and disabled to become tax paying workers, to avoid the economic costs of “worklessness”, but at the same time he has also hit out at people sticking around their work places longer than may seem necessary, thus creating additional costs in overtime, while just engaging in what he calls “presenteism”.
Have a read of the following:
“‘Presenteeism’ culture of long hours sweeps Welsh offices – an article in Wales Online from 24 April 2008”:
That man is a true danger in himself, being such a self-serving “scientist” with his own “inventions” of conditions, be this “illness belief” or “presenteism”. Is this for real, or is this a “nut case” of a “medical expert”, formerly even Chief Medical Officer for the DWP, now having major influence on how sick and disabled beneficiaries are going to be treated in New Zealand?!
He has had a major meeting with Paula Bennett last year, and appears to continue influencing her and senior MSD decision makers!
xtasy, the practice of creating dubious conditions goes back to at least Sigmund Freud .. this case seems to, be a case of prejudice .. if not business .. masquerading as science.
Snakeoil: I agree – and it shows again, the IQ level of Paula Bennett, for falling for the guy’s bizarre and nonsensical “findings” and theories.
While more and more people in the UK, those affected of course, but also increasingly medical experts and ordinary doctors, are realising what utter idiotic, distorted, largely unproved and indeed quite dangerous stuff Mansel Aylward and others are “teaching” and propagating, Bennett, many of her anyway biased government colleagues – and some at MSD here in New Zealand are sucking it up into their empty brain spaces as pure gospel from a “scientific” source.
I would put it down to inexperience and westie parochialism. IQ is another troublesome concept. As Textor might have put it, putting Paula in the job was all about the ‘optics’ .. it looked good and the media would buy it for a while .. but ignorance after two terms is no excuse. There are some very entrenched attitudes in some quarters ..
xtasy
You misunderstand Poorer Benefit. Her intelligence is high and is matched to her, and the other right wing politicians, low cunning. If only they could stop the welfare payments and have all that money available to them who knows what they could achieve? She has the power and not much moral fibre against its corrupting influence.
Mansel whatsname is another medical marvel, to some people, like Sir Robert Professor Winston. And they are so handy to appeal to for authority when wanting to move against the needy. A religious authority for the Right to believe in.
Are you sure you’re not Eric Cartman from South Park:
“Es Ist Zeit zu säubern! Wir müssen die Juden ausrotten!”
Nevermind sweetheart, you’re in good company with Mel Gibson and John Galliano. Carry on.
Why? Neither Mel Gibson or John Galliano are to my knowledge Nazis… (in any case the fairy that was supposed to bring you a sense of irony at your christening obviously got sidetracked)
Neither Mel Gibson or John Galliano are to my knowledge Nazis…
Whether or not they are, I have no doubt you would have functioned perfectly well in Nazi Germany.
Anyway, you have a job to do: get out there and pour scorn on Edward Snowden. See if he’s had dodgy sexual relations with a couple of Chinese girls over there, then lie your arse off like you did with Assange.
Why can’t you simply deal with the fact Assange is an arrogant git who has no respect for women? He’d hardly be the first popular hero to have feet of clay.
Why can’t you simply deal with the fact Assange is an arrogant git who has no respect for women?
Just like Martin Luther King was. The FBI had a huge dossier on him; they didn’t have to use it in the end, due to the fortunate events in Memphis in April 1968.
He’d hardly be the first popular hero to have feet of clay.
No. And he’s not the first popular hero to be vilified and persecuted either.
Jeez, what a naive twat you can be, Moz. MLK had affairs, the FBI regularly taped him and released the evidence to whoever they thought could bring him down. His weakness for consensual sex outside of marriage is not the same thing as sexually assaulting people, then running and hiding when called on it.
must say xtasy, even some of the mad amongst us would prefer something fulfilling and productive to do, but then…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………sigh.
ghostrider888 – of course, but you would want to be respected and be given a fair chance to have some say and input in what is best with certain health conditions, and what is not. Also would you expect that person’s own doctors would be given some credit, rather than some MSD “trained” and practically “hand picked” “designated doctor” or Regional Health Advisor paid for by WINZ.
But we know where it is all heading, dressed up as well-meant “support” and “sound measures” to empower and enable sick and disabled with incapacities. My experience tells me, apply a high measure of scrutiny and distrust, especially when anything comes from Paula Bennett, Key and their government.
from my experiences, for those clients lacking in self-advocacy and impression-management skills, dealing with government agencies, and The Legal System, can be a treacherous confidence course. As you identify, valuable to have medical / health professionals familiar with your journey and a well-documented history. 😉
Even current experiences of a family-member with an infant in hospital is not encouraging; child left with rising temperature until grandmother, a nurse advocates for intervention, mother on a mattress on a floor, ffs. Health System is beginning the predicted haemorrhage of funding and human resources.
just watched Matthew Hooten spinning for the Tories on Firstline; his “patriotic” advice that “Dunne should remain in Parliament, and let the government finish it’s 18 months (for the economy)” you understand, for the economy.
reading this thread, and watching the MSM, what other conclusion can one draw other than NAct, their backers and flunkies are shitting bricks; they do not want a by-election in Oh-who-rea.
do ghostrider with/ and/ or Rogue Trooper; play nice, seeing as you omitted the rider from that ‘media awards’ evening, and I had washed my best Nirvana tee-shirt and everything.
you’ll just encourage him. He’s oblivious to sarcasm.
Really? You think so?
If you don’t like our little sortie into anagram fun, why don’t you come out and say it, rather than posting sour little jibes that (as usual) fail to register?
You asked me why I didn’t make a more direct criticism of your infantile (and probably computer-assisted) “anagram fun”. The answer is “because it didn’t work when lanth did it”.
It’s good if we can keep our brains as active as when we were 12, with some mature input added. I think that brain maturity reaches its height at 25, so let’s keep trying to limit the decline I say.
“It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They don’t!”
—-Matthew Hooton, Radio NZ National, Monday 10 June 2013
Mike Williams, supposed to be “from the Left”, sat meekly through that rant and then, meekly, went out of his way to agree with him.
See also….
No. 18: Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”
No. 17: Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”
No. 16: Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months”
No. 15: Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
No. 14: Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
No.13: Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27052013/#comment-638881
No. 12: U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
No. 11: Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”
No. 10: Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
No. 9: NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
No. 8: Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question”
No. 7: Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15052013/#comment-633295
No. 6: NZ Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”
No. 5: Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632594
No. 4: Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
No. 3: John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
No. 2: Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”
No. 1: Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”
Hooton is an ass, an utter ass. But the real problem here is Mike Williams. He is useless.
Why don’t they have someone principled and coherent to oppose Hooton? What has happened to Andrew Campbell? Or Laila Harre? Or Sue Bradford? Each of those people firmly put Hooton in his place; Williams on the other hand, like the timid Peter Harris and the dithering Josie Pagani, just concedes the floor to Hooton—almost every time.
Yep, it’s half an hour of squelchy sounds between Hoots and Williams. The host says “withdraw and apologise”, Wormtongue says “nope” and she lets it go. I appreciate that Ryan has principles, but she needs a backbone too.
The great difference has been that after asking a question, Kim Hill actually listens for the response and then accommodates the answer into the discussion. Thus reminding people that interviews are meant to extract information. Something almost every other media journalist in the country seems to have forgotten.
That’s why he’s invited. The token left, like Newstalk ZB with Josie Pagani.
Fox TV did it with Hannity ( deranged right winger) and Colmes ( ineffectual left wing stooge)
Then they can pretend they are ‘fair and balanced’ (Fox) or see both sides of the story (Newstalk ZB).
How many days before the Obama-surveillance stories start to connect with the GCSB stories here?
While we wait, here’s a preview of a relevant movie about the growth of the surveillance state and its consequenes both for liberty and for the United States globally:
Good news. Someone was claiming that housing was unaffordable for ordinary people in NZ and that was wrong. Then there was a plan to change this with the finger being pointed at the lack of available land because it was being tied up by ‘unreasonable’ councils.
Then I found that these thoughtful comments were being made by NZ Initiative, a branch of the Business Roundtable and were authored by Luke Malpass and Michael Bassett. What a surprise. What they care about is that a good reliable money earner for them is being stymied and that will not do.
Also involved are – AuthorDr Bryce WilkinsonSatyajit DasDr Oliver HartwichLuke MalpassRoger PartridgeDr John LeeCatherine HarlandLukas SchroeterJoseph JuddRachael http://nzinitiative.org.nz/About+Us/Membership.html
The recent comments carried forward those made by the Productivity Commission in April 2012. http://www.productivity.govt.nz/about-us/our-team-0 http://www.productivity.govt.nz/inquiry-content/1509?stage=4 Containment policies such as ‘Smart Growth’ and Auckland’s Metropolitan Urban Limit (MUL) were also found by the Commission to have an adverse effect on housing affordability by limiting the availability of land for housing.
“Pressure on land prices needs to be reduced and the Commission has recommended that there be an immediate release of new land for residential development in high demand areas such as Auckland and Christchurch”.
Does their self-interest meet the housing needs of NZs? What other means are available of stopping housing being an investment vehicle for everyone who doesn’t want to or can’t find employment
within other parts of the economy?
We have as many housing speculators it seems, as cats have fleas, feeding off us and forcing up the prices of housing, which they can then rent at a loss while they wait for inflation of housing, not measured by the CPI to rise and make them a capital profit. And with very little maintenance to keep the places liveable.
Another True American Hero Emerges
Edward Snowden will now be targeted by the US/UK defamation machine
Question: Will Populuxe1, McFlock, and the other Standard regulars who so perversely reiterated the official attacks on earlier whistleblowers now be grinding their axes to deal to this guy?….
From the initial face of it, he appears to be a genuine whistle-blower who was motivated by a genuine ethical quandary rather than ego, and who restricted his information distribution to information relating to the cause of his moral dilemma. In full knowledge of the significant personal sacrifice he would make.
Oh, and he seems to be sensible enough to avoid a sexual assault complaint.
Perfectly willing to change my mind if the facts change, though.
Moderately intrigued by his choice of Hong Kong, but what the hey. I suppose he’s betting that a US intelligence operation on Chinese soil might be more trouble than his scalp is worth.
[edit] although it does put him in the position of being a bargaining chip if the Chinese want to spend some diplo-credits with the US in the next couple of decades, a la Ramirez in Yemen.
…. motivated by a genuine ethical quandary rather than ego…
So it’s all about motivation, is it? You would have no doubt endorsed the German commentators who denounced Stauffenberg and his fellow bomb-plotters in 1944. Their “motivation” was suspect, too, seeing that they were all aristocrats—-and they were less than monkish in their sexual behaviour as well.
If only everybody was as perfect as you no doubt are.
Perfectly willing to change my mind if the facts change, though.
You’re like a commissar awaiting instructions from Moscow. And to think that YOU were upbraiding ME for apparently not getting your friend’s sarcasm.
McF is just another Tory who hasn’t come out of the closet yet. In the supposed interest of being “fair”, he’s making excuses for the right-wing authoritarians. You’ll find that he makes more and more excuses for them than he does for the real left and more and more criticisms of the left for being “unreasonable” and “not constructive”.
Godwin’s Law applies when the comparison is frivolous and can’t be argued convincingly. When I compare the behaviour of a “liberal” like McFlock to the behaviour of toadies in wartime Germany, I am not saying he was a Nazi, any more than I am saying he is a Soviet commissar by taking his lead from government spin doctors.
Of course, you can erroneously invoke Godwin’s Law if you want; it’s your credibility that’s being exposed when you refuse to engage.
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
As you put it: When I compare the behaviour of a “liberal” like McFlock to the behaviour of toadies in wartime Germany[…]
You described your comment as a comparison with those chaps and thereby satisfying the requirements of Godwin’s law.
Wow, rewriting Godwin’s Law to suit yourself, now there’s a surprise.
Godwin’s Law applies when someone makes an analogy comparing the person they are arguing with to N@zis etc, because they can no longer make a coherent argument. It doesn’t matter how sophisticated you think your argument is, if it’s hyperbole (which it was) then Godwin’s applies.
You might want to look up “sarcasm” in the dictionary.
Don’t use rhino’s, though, because all the words in that edition have identical meanings.
But yes, motivation does count.
For example: “defending Naz1s” = “bad motivation”, so “being an arsehole” rather than “being a whistleblower”.
Another example: “exposing an institutional abuse of liberties to the public who have a right to know” = “good motivation” = “whistleblower”.
Is there any point to this little interchange (from 25 on)? Any?
As your befuddled contribution at 25.1.2.2.1 shows all too plainly, you are clearly out of your depth.
Yes, there IS a point to “this little interchange”, and it is a very important one. If you do not appreciate that, then you really need to get off the discussion boards and do some serious, sustained READING.
Classic non-answer from Morrisey to a rhetorical question lol.
“Non-answer”? Not only did I refute your lamely inadequate attempt to trivialize this discussion, but I trussed you and served you as an amuse bouche before we moved onto bigger, nastier fare.
Nah, all you did was take your inference that there is something wrong with me, and wrap it up in some pseudo-clever language. Nothing of substance. As usual.
Nah, all you did was take your inference that there is something wrong with me, and wrap it up in some pseudo-clever language. Nothing of substance. As usual.
I don’t like to say this, my friend, but someone needs to: you are out of your depth.
so the primary-sector exports (partic. sheep and beef) are gonna take a 1.3B hit in projected annual income due to the drought.
“Well we come with what was on our backs
Yeah, when the leaves had died and all turned black
Back when the wind was cold and blew them ’round
When we laid our blankets on the ground
Anything I want, some of us are different
It’s just something in our blood, there’s no need for explanations
We’re just dogs on the run,
“Labour leader David Shearer wants Parliament’s privileges committee to probe the Peter Dunne saga as Fairfax Media says it won’t be releasing emails between its journalist and the MP.”
Yes I agree the emails should be made public, of course in the interest of fairness theres some other emails I’d like to see released…Phil Goffs recent escapdes could prove interesting etc etc
Seriously though whos advising Shearer? Someone who wants him to fail??
I don’t know about that fender. I disliked Shearer’s condemning attitudes to beneficiaries, his unattractive willingness to join the put-downers. Under the exterior is there a left winger? Or just another RWNJ in drag? He might be just a different door but with the same keyhole.
Good point but I believe Key has a deep-seated hatred of beneficiaries whereas Shearer was saying what some (Pagani?) adviser told him to say. That doesn’t excuse Shearer from his error, just highlights his inexperience and naivety.
+1 fender.
When he (only) had certain members of the ABC club advising him then it was inevitable he would put a few feet wrong. I think (I hope) he’s widened his advisory horizons now.
Anyone remember the “Citizens for Rowling” campaign. It was initiated by a David Exel? He was, in fact, a rejected National Party candidate but he had a dislike for Muldoon and set up the aforementioned campaign. Went to hear him speak at a public meeting in Takapuna and he spouted all the things that a pseudo left winger would say. It was comical really. Shame though because he had a lot of good liberal minds signed up. Mmmm, now am I experiencing a form of deja-vu
If you haven’t looked at google today – I suggest you take a shifty at the great program they’ve done displaying Maurice Sendak’s art and characters. Remember it’s only on for the day.
“If Peters can’t put up any evidence one must assume he has been lying about having it.”
What he might have said is “If Dunne can’t put up any evidence of his innocence one must assume he has been lying about having it.” But he didn’t. Funny that.
Last to leave? If UF do manage to get 500 paid up members, I’m picking a fair percentage of the names will be along the lines of Pete R. George, George Peters, PG Tips etc., so you may be right.
I often wonder if cantabs, for example, should be growing olives and dates rather than cows. That’s if the standard grain crops don’t rock their world, of course.
But let’s learn from their successes, as well as their mistakes. Producing food is good, especially in times of food shortage. But running the land down and filling out waterways with shit is stupid. Can we do the first without doing the second or third?
they already grow a lot of cereal there.
RNZ just advises that the Morehu chap (RW having orgasms over it on WOBH) was Tazered twice before being shot twice. deep sigh.
“I often wonder if cantabs, for example, should be growing olives and dates rather than cows.”
Of course the most productive use of land (measured by how many families the land sustains) is horticultural.
New Zealand has moved from a hunter-gatherer approach (still seen today in various ancient fed farmer cultures) to an animals which eat the regrowth approach, and thence now slowly to this most productive form. There is no doubt that the water which has been stolen to wet the dry land for moo cows will instead quench plants of most exquisite return and flavour.
yep. Polycultures (with animals integrated into the system) are the most shock proof ways of growing food. That’s a different kete of fish than making money of course. Time to decide what you want NZ.
“Holed up in Hong Kong”
The project to criminalize whistle-blowing and dissent
Radio NZ National, Checkpoint, Monday 10 June 2013, 5:20 p.m.
Just heard Susie Ferguson parrot the line that Edward Snowden is “holed up” in Hong Kong. She was, perhaps unwittingly, referring to yet another dissenter as though he’s some desperado who pulled a bank heist.
It’s started. Expect sexual allegations in the next week, and a “request” for extradition.
Expect also some diligent reiteration in this normally excellent forum of whatever Obama’s drones say.
By the usual parrots.
UPDATE:
Suzy Ferguson has just repeated the “holed up” meme on the 5:30 news.
Damn – did they not rewrite the RNZ news script despite your helpful advice?
Golly, you’re onto it! I DID send them a hurry-up at 5:30 pm. Sound intuition there, my friend. I haven’t checked my email yet; I’ll let you know if and what they replied.
8:14 pm
Just checked my email. You’re right, she treated it with contempt. Not even a snarky one-liner, as Jim Mora or Michael Laws or Leighton Smith will at least bother to do.
Nothing. I am so lonely now. Ignored. Marginalized.
No. I don’t do sarcasm. I leave that to lower forms of life, like our friends Populuxe1, weka and Te Reo Putake.
Because you do sometimes apparently send RNZ emails that you republish here.
I do, and there’s nothing “apparent” about them; they are genuine. I’ll have another look to see if they’ve replied, then I’ll publish my letter (probably unanswered, I will bet) on today’s Open Mike (11 June).
Brit’s Haig? commented that their spying activity is not wide, enveloping and random it’s – ‘organised, targeted, appropriate’ and something else that has slipped my mind. Do we feel that the Brit govt is a bastion of freedom and respect for all citizens? Do we think that NZ is?
and Tom Sharpe.
anyway, the NZ Super Fund has been investing (only 2M) in five companies manufacturing nuclear weapons and / or their support platforms.
UK Police to guard selected Islamic sites, schools, mosques, etc around Greater London.
Oh well.
Parata apparently gave the go ahead to look at a ‘public-private partnership‘ for the Aranui ‘super school’. That was why she pushed back the date of closure, to give a PPP a chance.
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Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
I was initially resistant to the idea often suggested to me that the Government should deliver an arts strategy. The whole point of the arts and creativity is that people should do whatever the hell they want, unbound by the dictates of politicians in Wellington. Peter Jackson, Kiri Te Kanawa, Eleanor ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
Nearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...
What does a forever relationship look like when you don’t believe in marriage? And how do you celebrate it? This essay is part of our Sunday Essay series, made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.I’m going to do it, right now. I’m going to say ...
The Prime Minister has committed to resuming direct flights to Thailand. But it’s not a promise he will be able to deliver on anytime soon. The post Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand appeared first on Newsroom. ...
It’s not that long ago Eliza McCartney was seriously wondering if the Paris Olympics would be her pole vaulting swansong. After years of being hounded by injury after injury, the Rio Olympics bronze medallist was still confident she would compete at her second Olympics in Paris in July, unless something ...
FICTION 1 Take Two by Danielle Hawkins (Allen & Unwin, $36.99) There’s commercial fiction, like this book, and then there’s quality fiction, quality writers, quality literature; the forthcoming Auckland Writers Festival is full of quality, and ReadingRoom has two tickets to give away to the following events: Paul Lynch (Dublin ...
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You can’t have missed the Gallipoli story as the movies, documentaries, essays and books capture what it was like for New Zealand troops in their eight-month campaign on the Peninsula. But this Anzac Day the Auckland War Memorial Museum has published a book that sheds light on a little-known aspect of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Pōneke based peace activists staged a silent protest at the ANZAC day service to highlight New Zealand’s complicity in war and genocide, and urge the government to take concrete steps to stop the genocide in Palestine. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Magdalena M.E. Bunbury, Postdoctoral Researcher, James Cook University Burial with a horse at the Rákóczifalva site, Hungary (8th century AD).Sándor Hegedűs, Hungarian National Museum, CC BY How do we understand past societies? For centuries, our main sources of information have been ...
Amanda Thompson doesn’t really do Anzac Day. But what she does do is remember the people she knew who had a lifetime to remember stuff they didn’t really want to, because of a war they didn’t ask for. And she does make Anzac biscuits.First published in 2021.All my ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathryn Willis, Postdoctoral Researcher, CSIRO Xavier Boulenger/Shutterstock In the two decades to 2019, global plastic production doubled. By 2040, plastic manufacturing and processing could consume as much as 20% of global oil production and use up 15% of the annual carbon ...
With our collective remembrance, and steadfast belief in our common humanity, we strengthen our hope and resolve to do what we can to foster dialogue and understanding, and to heal divisions in our pursuit of peace. ...
Principal reasons for the opposition is the loss of the public’s democratic right to have “a fair say” and the vital need for a government free from corruption, said Casey Cravens of Dunedin, president of the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater ...
Never mind the scoreboard – in the 2000 Bledisloe Cup decider, the real trans-Tasman battle was won before kickoff.First published in 2016. The dawn of the new millennium was a dark time for the All Blacks. Their final game pre-Y2K was a 22-18 loss to South Africa in the ...
I’m on the wrong side of 40, I never pursued creative work and now my job is killing my soul. Help! Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,May I start with the least original conversation opener you’re likely to hear around the motu at the moment, particularly in Wellington: ...
“Never again - No AUKUS” was the message of the wreath laid at this morning’s national ANZAC Day commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park this morning by the Stop AUKUS group. ...
Until this month, Auckland swimmer Hazel Ouwehand had never met a qualifying time in an Olympic event for a New Zealand team, even as a junior. Now she’s very likely off to the Paris Olympics after swimming well under the qualifying standard in the 100m butterfly twice – both in ...
While Anzac Day has experienced a resurgence in recent years, our other day of remembrance has slowly faded from view.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Original illustrations by Hope McConnell.First published in 2022.The high school’s head girl and ...
Australian and New Zealand volunteers fought together in the Waikato War, yet still its place in the Anzac tradition is unacknowledged by our defence forces or Returned Services Association.First published in 2018.When I was a boy cub I attended Anzac Day services in the South Auckland suburb of ...
A poem by Wellington writer Tayi Tibble.Hoki Mai She kisses him goodbye with her eyes still wet and alight from their last swim in the Awatere river. At the train station celebration, she leads the Kapa Haka but her voice keeps breaking under and over itself like waves. ...
A poem from Bill Manhire’s 2017 book of verse Some Things to Place in a Coffin.My World War I Poem Inside each trench, the sound of prayer. Inside each prayer, the sound of digging. Image courtesy of Auckland War Memorial Museum. ...
There are three books I have wolfed down in one sitting over the last two years. Colleen Maria Lenihan’s gorgeous and sad debut Kōhine, Noelle McCarthy’s memoir Grand about becoming her mother and then unbecoming her, and now Hine Toa, a staunch yet gentle self-portrait by living legend Ngāhuia te ...
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Asia Pacific Report Students and activist staff at Australia’s University of Sydney (USyd) have set up a Gaza solidarity encampment in support of Palestinians and similar student-led protests in the United States. The camp was pitched as mass graves, crippled hospitals, thousands of civilian deaths and the near-total destruction of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James B. Dorey, Lecturer in Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong Australian teddy bear bees are cute and fluffy, but get a look at that massive (unbarbed) stinger! James Dorey Photography Most of us have been stung by a bee and we ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Roberts, Senior Lecturer, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Aussie~mobs/FlickrVictor Farr, a private in the 1st Infantry Battalion, was among the first to land at Anzac Cove just before dawn on April 25 1915. Victor Farr ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Gregory Moore I had the good fortune to care for the sugar gum at The University of Melbourne’s Burnley Gardens in Victoria where I worked for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Ong ViforJ, ARC Future Fellow & Professor of Economics, Curtin University Just when we think the price of rentals could not get any worse, this week’s Rental Affordability Snapshot by Anglicare has revealed low-income Australians are facing a housing crisis like ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Shearer wrong foots it again.
This doesn’t bode well for David Shearer as the sole arbiter and gate keeper of SIS and GCSB wrongdoing.
In the interests of openess and transparancy in defence of our democracy the Labour opposition and should be encouraging all government MPs as Peter Dunne has done, to ‘blow the whistle’ on illegal and corrupt dealings that they come across in their parliamentary work.
The Labour Party need ta leader who is experienced, sure footed, principled and competent. Able to work with others without being an autocrat. And at the very least be able to string more than a few words together with out getting tongue tied.
If Labour are ever to manage a coalition government made up of disparate parties and viewpoints, they will need a leader who stops continually floundering completely out of his depth.
“In the interests of openess and transparancy in defence of our democracy the Labour opposition and should be encouraging all government MPs as Peter Dunne has done, to ‘blow the whistle’ on illegal and corrupt dealings that they come across in their parliamentary work.”
Dunne isn’t a whistleblower, the report was going to be released a few days later anyway. He’s just a sad, bored old man who let his little head do his thinking for him. Shearer is right, it’s now a matter for the cops to sort out.
Shearer should keep his head down and leave it to Peters to stalk the battlefield and bayonet the wounded.
Peters has all the ammunition, the emails will out one way or the other, the whole story segues pretty well into the US leaks story, so it has at least 5 months of media to run. More if there’s a Police investigation.
And with Banks functionally gone…
…Net result for Peters is he’s closer to being primary kingmaker against the Greens leading up to Nov 2014.
Got it in one, Jenny. Check this for dismal reading…..
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8776490/Attempts-to-get-reporters-emails-will-be-fought
If ever NZ needed an effective opposition it is now. And the Greens can’t do it on their own.
And forget whingeing about the MSM meantime. They can’t make bricks without straw. And when they manage a real scoop, don’t sic the cops onto them.
There has been talk of comparing Key to Muldoon which I agree with. I compare Shearer to Rowling.
There needs to be a commission of inquiry into Dunne and the terms of reference need to cover
Why the PM is not prepared to expose the Dunne emails? The reporter could be given immunity.
I think that Dunne is more of a threat to Key than Key losing Dunne’s vote in the House as Key is protecting Dunne. The threat could be exposing Key about his knowledge of Dotcom and Fletcher has protected Key.
Sir Ferguson is a friend of Dunne’s and resides in Dunne’s electorate. Either or both Vance and Ferguson know the truth because Dunne knows how treacherous Key can be and requires insurance.
I think that Dunne gets off on being a power vote in the house and that he got himself in too deep.
If a by-election was called….
Could Labour win Ohariu?
The answer is YES!
Combined the Labour Green vote 15,489 is only 3,275 behind national’s making Ohariu officially a marginal seat.
The Greens have not seriously contested electorate seats and instead have relied on the party vote to win seats..
The Greens have no chance of winning the Ohariu seat. By seriously contesting this seat, they would only achieve a greater defeat for the Labour candidate.
Nationally the Greens need to work with Labour to get National out. This is a given. In Ohariu Belmont, tactically, the best thing the Greens could do. Is to help their potential coalition partner gain the treasury benches.
This means that the Greens will need to stand in solidarity with the Labour candidate.
The Green Party should put up a candidate, but that candidate should endorse the Labour Candidate at every opportunity, and call on all Green Party supporters to tactically vote Labour.
Even the Green Party billboards should call on a tactical vote for the Labour candidate.
The justly famous Labour Party electoral machine should descend on Ohariu Belmont. Green and Labour members and supporters working together,.door knocking, canvassing, erecting billboards etc. could easily russle up the required extra three and a half thousand votes needed to achieve a comfortable win for the Labour candidate.
The Nacts are worried.
Hooton gives his spin:
@ Jenny
“The Greens have not seriously contested electorate seats and instead have relied on the party vote to win seats.” That has been the case since Jeanette Fitzsimmons lost Coromandel – but she seemed pretty serious to me. I think we should start to seriously contest electorate seats once more; despite MMP, electorate seats seem to have greater mana than list in our political culture. If Chauvel was still around, or there was some quid pro quo on offer from Labour, then the scheme you propose might be worth the tarnishing of the Green party’s reputation that would come with pulling an Epsom.
Plus; really? You’re leading with a quote from Tracy Watkins?? I’m no fan of the modern Labour Party or Mr Mumblefuck, but please! I can’t be bothered wading through her article, but would just point out that Dunne is not PM, and her interpretation of Clarke’s “couldn’t leak” line is peculiar.
Should we have legal protection for whistle-blowers and leakers? Probably, though I imagine there’d have to be some limits on that (time of war, false information; to mention two). Should not politicians be accountable to the current law; even if I, or they, personally disagree with that law? Unequivocably yes!
Did Dunne leak the Kitteridge report, or is he being set up to take the fall for some one else? It seems to sit strangely with his stated intention of supporting the bill for GCSB expanded powers. If he leaked, I applaud his action; but he should still pay the price. If you or I were to break the law, and get caught; then there would be consequences.
If no law has been broken, then there is no need for police involvement. That’s one for the lawyers amongst us, and certainly; any emails that are irrelevant to the issue should not be made public. Dunne does have a right to privacy, despite what journalists and opposition MPs might wish.
“Plus; really? You’re leading with a quote from Tracy Watkins??”
Yesterday her main argument was based on John Armstrong’s spin about the GP.
Fuck you with a sharp stick, Contrarian.
You are a proven liar who argues for the poisoning of people’s water.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/06/the_fluoridation_backlash.html/comment-page-1#comment-1155547
Oh dear, TC nails your inability to back up your fluoride fantasies and you can’t think of an answer. Fascinating stuff. Yawn.
Eugenics is no fantasy, moron.
EUGENICS
The movement began in the late 19th century with reasonable goals. Both scientists and members of the general public were interested in using their newly acquired knowledge of inheritance to work toward making improvements in the human “stock.” But, with time, the eugenics movement became a tool for discriminating against and harming individuals and groups. By the end of World War II, the word “eugenics” was forever linked to acts of discrimination and extreme cruelty.
http://highschoolbioethics.georgetown.edu/units/cases/unit4_i.html
Sorry, I thought you and TC were talking about fluoride, didn’t realise you’d moved on to Godwin.
Godwin wasn’t implied. Andrew Mellon was the most visible connection between he eugenics movement and fluoridation.
Founded by Andrew and Richard Mellon, financiers of the aluminium giant Alcoa, the Mellon Institute specialised in conducting research for industry. For generations, it was a leading defender of the asbestos industry, producing research to show that mesothelioma was not caused by asbestos. Andrew Mellon was at the head of the Public Health Service when it dispatched dentist H. T. Dean (“the father of fluoridation”) to study fluoride’s dental effects.
http://www.fannz.org.nz/history.php
It’s definitely a massive conspiracy that involves everyone in the medical and dental professions. They’ve even fooled the British Medical Journal.
But that’s not what it said though is it? The difference between “no evidence” and “no clear evidence” is small, but important.
And of course, dental fluorosis is a physical sign that the body is physiologically overloaded with fluoride.
It says considerably more than that – details on potential adverse effects from cancer to goitres. I just quoted the conclusion.
The good old “too big to be true” fallacy.
“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
— Prince Phillip – Duke of Edinburgh, leader of the World Wildlife Fund – quoted in ‘Are You Ready For Our New Age Future?’, Insiders Report, American Policy Center, December ’95
“The United Nation’s goal is to reduce population selectively by encouraging abortion, forced sterilization, and control of human reproduction, and regards two-thirds of the human population as excess baggage, with 350,000 people to be eliminated per day.”
– Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier, Nov. 1991
Jacques Cousteau was born in 1910, and died in 1997. During this time, global average life expectancy went from about thirty to about fifty-five.
Obviously the vast UN conspiracy he uncovered wasn’t very effective.
Or perhaps it’s the good old “divergence from reality” fallacy.
Maybe they weren’t following your game plan.
Reality: Life expectancy on the up, public health getting better, population continues to rise etc etc etc.
UglyTruth: I don’t have to provide evidence.
You have lost the argument.
[lprent: pwned argument. Please desist – especially since it looks like deliberate baiting. ]
Got nothing so fall back on cryptic vacuity much?
lol that’s funny, reads like the Hail Mary from the religion of universal progress
“reads like the Hail Mary from the religion of universal progress”
SIR FRANCIS GALTON, FATHER OF EUGENICS: “It must be introduced into the national conscience, like a new religion. It has, indeed, strong claims to become an orthodox religious, tenet of the future, for eugenics co-operate with the workings of nature by securing that humanity shall be represented by the fittest races…. I see no impossibility in Eugenics becoming a religious dogma among mankind.” (Eugenics: Its Definition Scope and Aims, 1904)
http://www.infowars.com/religion-of-eugenics-the-state-is-god/
Quote mining dead people makes you feel special?
I know people will be shocked to hear this, but it turns out that Ugly Truth’s Cousteau “quote”, though regurgitated on a number of nutbar sites, is not actually correct. Check out page 13:
Cousteau was expressing ideas not entirely unfamiliar in this forum, e.g.:
He certainly wasn’t outlining or speaking for official UN policy at the time.
Ugly Truth is a idiot with a confirmation bias to the point of delusion.
Tell about me how I was wrong about The Contrarian lying to defend the use of fluoride, fool.
Tell me how accusing TC of lying defends your own deceitful behaviour, wretch.
come, come, OAK. I don’t think he was being intentionally deceitful.
I suspect UT is just an idiot – or still has many years in hand to learn that (as Abraham Lincoln once said) “nine out of ten attributed quotations on the internet are bunk”.
Not a particularly flattering distinction.
Silly old Phillip was more ambitious than Charles, who would have settled for coming back as a tampon. Hmmm, I do remember toxic shock syndrome…….
I think Charles should be honoured with respect by letting that ‘quirky’ little comment vanish for good.
Don’t you believe in Karma Prism?
“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
― H.R.H. Prince Philip
A quite disgusting family, not even British, should always remain the brunt of ridicule!
WHAT!
Clockie
Was that something sung by Boy George?
and Muzza
Your comments are very lively, interesting and provocative. Though they make me think of Shakespeare “it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Nothing personal however.
Provide evidence that fluoride in the water supply has created public health problems.
What, a writ of prejudice and suspicion from The People’s Court isn’t good enough for you?
What, haven’t you seen Dr Strangelove ? United States Air Force Strategic Air Command General Jack D. Ripper, no less, articulates a compelling argument.
I first became aware of it, Rhinocrates, during the physical act of love. A profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.
DMT is also associated with the pineal gland.
need to learn to retain your qi.
You’re gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company.
False invocations of Godwin’s law, you’re sinking a bit low TRP.
Nope, eugenics is directly linked to you know who, so I think it’s a fair call to say that linking fluoride in water to that philosophy is a Godwin.
That means we can never talk about N@zi Germany in any argument ever, or even refer to a phenomenon that has connections with N@zi Germany. That’s not what Godwin’s law is about. Were UT to compare you to a N@zi or H1tler, that would be invoking Godwin’s law. Simply talking about N@zis doesn’t count (not that that was what UT was doing anyway).
“That’s not what Godwin’s law is about.”
Actually, proving Godwin’s law is exactly what UT did. He replied to my comment by leaping angrily to eugenics. That’s a de facto Godwin right there.
It’s not a real law, and the fact that I called you moron doesn’t mean that I was angry. Calling you a moron is a way of drawing attention to your not-so-clever avoidance of the real issue, sort of like what you’re doing now.
but it was approved by a de facto court of the Hundred on the interwebz, it MUST be a real law!
Provide evidence that fluoride in the water supply has created public health problems.
Provide evidence that fluoride in the water supply has created public health problems.
“Actually, proving Godwin’s law is exactly what UT did. He replied to my comment by leaping angrily to eugenics. That’s a de facto Godwin right there”
No, eugenics has previously been raised in this debate, and someone made the connection between eugenics and fluoride within the fluoridation debate. Irrespective of whether the connection is valid within the debate, it’s not being used as a way of calling you or anyone else a N@zi (as part of approaching an endpoint of a long futile argument that has degenerated to that level).
It doesn’t matter how angry UT’s posts were or if they were having a go at you. You can disagree with UT’s side of the debate all you like, but your calling on Godwin’s law was false.
Fair call from where you’re sitting, Weka, but as I was unaware of the rest of the debate, leaping straight to eugenics after insulting me is very much a Godwin, as I understand the concept.
Remember, I was replying specifically to the link to KB that UT provided, not the wider debate about fluoride. I made a comment, and UT responded with an insult and a reference to something closely associated with 1930’s Germany. That’s a Godwin and a lightening fast one at that.
I haven’t been involved in the wider debate, but now that the link to eugenics has been made, I’m all the more convinced that fluoride in water is a good thing and removing it is an attack on the poor in particular.
May I invoke a meta-Godwin based on observation of this sub-thread?:
“Once Godwin’s Rule has been mentioned, all discussion will revolve about whether it applies – and at that point, it has definitely become pointless.”
Of course that suggests a para-meta-Godwin:
“Even saying the G-word is an attempt to invoke the meta-G-word is a conversational grenade, designed to end discussion.”
Furthermore, there is the hyper-para-meta-G…
Why yes, and I believe it was UT who made that particular connection. Does that make it a meta-Godwin?
maybe Galton
It doesn’t matter anyway, it’s not like it is areal law, it’s just a convention based on the assumption that nothing today is like Nazi Germany.
No that’s not what Godwin’s law is either.
Godwin’s law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies)is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage. It states: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Exactly, which renders the discussion here pointless. It simply doesn’t matter when, or by whom, a thread confirms Godwin’s law.
The point is that the Godwin’s argument is based on an assumption that no longer holds true.
Or, as urbandictionary puts it:
Made obsolete by the Neocons.
Thanks to the Neocons, Godwin’s law is now obsolete.
What?
Weka, the point of Godwin’s law was to realize when a debate no longer served any useful purpose. The argument was that everyday society was so far removed from Nazi Germany that any debate that involved making comparisons with the Nazi’s version of fascism was logically untenable.
But that was back when Homeland Security was a term that you would attribute to one of Hitler’s people.
“the point of Godwin’s law was to realize when a debate no longer served any useful purpose.”
Sure.
“The argument was that everyday society was so far removed from Nazi Germany that any debate that involved making comparisons with the Nazi’s version of fascism was logically untenable.”
Um, I thought the point was that eventually all arguments have the propensity to reach the point where someone can no longer argue reasonably and so calls someone a N@zi (and thus loses by default).
“But that was back when Homeland Security was a term that you would attribute to one of Hitler’s people.”
But it’s not like fascism hasn’t existed since WW2 until now. The point isn’t whether the analogy is close to being true, it’s that if someone needs to use the analogy in the first place they probably need to step away from the computer for a while.
You weren’t drawing an analogy, which is why I cried foul on invoking the law.
Nah, the point of ‘Godwin’s law’ was to test a hypothesis that memes could be countered with, err, counter memes.
Godwin was playing around with this idea, coined his ‘law’ and seeded it in vraious threads where N@zis were mentioned. And it took off, as we see here.
“Um, I thought the point was that eventually all arguments have the propensity to reach the point where someone can no longer argue reasonably and so calls someone a N@zi (and thus loses by default).”
That’s like saying that people are incapable or admitting defeat when debating, or always eventually resort to ad-hominems or abuse. It’s just an observation of ego in action, hopefully there are people out there who don’t have to validate their own sense of self-worth by always getting the last word in or throwing a hissy fit if they don’t.
“Nah, the point of ‘Godwin’s law’ was to test a hypothesis that memes could be countered with, err, counter memes.”
That’s an interesting interpretation.
At one end of the scale you’ve got Godwin’s original words and at the other you’ve got how his words have been interpreted as a means of deflecting attention away from a particular topic.
Here’s some of Mike Godwin’s actual words for you UT:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/2.10/godwin.if.html
You can pretty much count on Wikipedia to be wrong about anything important relating to law and contemporary fascism.
A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin’s Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin’s Law has effectively forfieted the argument.
Usenet There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin’s Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin’s Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Godwin%27s%20law
“You can pretty much count on Wikipedia to be wrong about anything important relating to law and contemporary fascism.”
Are you saying that the piece I quoted is incorrect?
Yes, because in practical terms the application of Godwin’s “law” meant that the argument was over. Wikipedia is seriously f****d up about these sort of issues.
But the bit I quoted doesn’t say anything about the argument being over or not. Please point to the exact part of what I quoted that is wrong.
Weka, the problem was that it was incomplete. Wikipedia failed to include the idea of limiting the field of debate.
Ugly Truth
Since you are the arbiter of what the truth is, you should not allow Wikipedia to continue in its confused, incomplete form. You should be correcting it and your communications indicate you have the knowledge and tools to do so as people are allowed to do I understand. Unless you have been banned for some good reason.
“Fuck you with a sharp stick, Contrarian.”
I think you’re crossing a line there UT, enough with the sexual violence please.
Try to argue with words of reason only Ugly Truth. Keep the sharp stick etc for when you have put a good argument and can’t win through. It’s too early in the process yet to let the language fly. Keep something in reserve can’t you.
Weka, Prism, thanks for the comments about my language. The reason I do it is to attract attention to issues of importance. I’d prefer not to see it in debate.
ends justify the pointy means, eh?
O Ugly one!
Since you regard Urban Dictionary as so superior to Wikipedia as a repository of human knowledge, you may be interested in knowing that their definition for “Ugly Truth” is:
“Finiding [sic] out after you picked a girl up at a strip club that she actually has a dick.”
Pasupial, on the other hand, isn’t defined yet. After today, I fully expect it to be; “some one who should be fucked with a sharp stick”. But given your evident propensities I suppose I should regard that as a compliment.
PS/ Apologies to any transgendered who may be offended – just a wee taste of their own medicine for a repugnant bigot.
Was in edit mode when timed out, and for some reason that wiped my nom de clave [which is now back above]. Should end:
PS/ Apologies to any transgendered who may be offended. The propensities line was about him (at least I assume Ugly is a male); picking someone up at a strip club (ew!), rather than her having a dick. Just a wee taste of their own medicine for a repugnant bigot.
Well there are a lot of ugly truths around. I would like to see them debated with the f word and other such strong language left for final shots of dissatisfaction not thrown around promiscuously. Or what about venting in acronym – so trendy – FFS.
lol
Why did you bring a bitch-fight you two had in the sewer here? Too much lead in your bloodstream?
What bitch fight? TC got his ass kicked and now he’s just running around in circles trying to make demands.
@TheContrarian
UT: You lied when you said: “So nothing. You have nothing. No facts, just assertion.”
TC: That is assertion.
UT: Facts are expressed as assertions.
UT: Do you deny the first fact, that fluoride is a poison which accumulates in the body?
TC: No.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/06/the_fluoridation_backlash.html/comment-page-1#comment-1155761
Provide evidence that fluoride in the water supply has created public health problems.
Contrarian: do you deny the fact that pure water is a poison that accumulates in the body?
accumulation of some body fluids require the emptying of dirty water from time to time 😉
Paging Dr. Dunning-Kruger.
let’s assume that your interpretation of events is correct (doubtful) and TC “got his ass kicked” (although I suggest someone should call the SPCA).
That suggests that you brought your gloating here from the sewer for approval/respect/awe.
So beneath all your bluster lies a scared little kid seeking validation from others. Well, you won’t get it from me: you’re a shallow little peon who thinks that parroting the few blogs that coincide with your egotistical bias is the same as profound philosophical thought. You are an ass’s arse, with similar results.
The alternative position is that the public interest is served by people becoming more aware of the issues surrounding the fluoridation debate.
… and that you’re projecting your own mean-spirited nature, McFlock.
Provide evidence that fluoride in the water supply has created public health problems.
The BMJ article linked above is a good place to start. A taster:
“There were four analyses that indicated a significant increase in risk of fracture and five that indicated a significant decrease in risk at the 5% significance level.”
Oh noes! The conspirators are divided among themselves!!!
“…the public interest is served by people becoming more aware of the issues surrounding the fluoridation debate.”
The “issues” about the “debate”?
This cartoon is as good an illustration of the “debate” as any. Medical science is the one in the ring with the gloves on.
“…the public interest is served by people becoming more aware of the issues surrounding the fluoridation debate.”
Pretty hard to make people aware when you refuse to show any evidence that fluoridation of the water supply has lead to any public health problems.
Oh, I dunno, the alternative method is way more entertaining.
Yes, your inability to support your claims is highly entertaining. But for the reasons you think.
Why won’t you tell the truth about it, liar?
I guess fluoride does accumulate in the teeth, the purpose for imbibing it. What does a miniscule amount do in the body that has caused alarm to you?
Am I bovvered? Does my face look bovvered?
UT
That sounds like one of my favourite Monty Python skits – the Argument. You should pay The Standard for letting you joust here.
Alex Jones is nutter shock: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jun/09/andrew-neil-alex-jones-sunday-politics
Alex Jones got called an idiot. Convincing stuff there, TRP.
With the NSA situation finally coming to mainstream view, I think you might find, the likes of Alex Jones, grow their audience, accordingly!
Jones has been covering the NSA having access into telecoms providers networks, for years!
Why is it , Voice, you and people who share views such as yours, find Alex Jones so hard to ignore?
While not a fan of Jones, like all commentators, he has a place, and many of the subjects he has been leading on for many years, which people have, *blown off* are now coming out, as facts!
The real truth coming out doesn’t make fantasists like Jones any more credible. The reason I posted the clip is because it’s a visual example of how crazed he is. Anybody that can make Andrew Neil look sensible is not to be trusted.
Trust him or not, the fact that he is getting more media exposure is an indication that there is a growing interest in “conspiracy theory” type material. Blowing him off as a loon is too easy.
“Blowing him off as a loon is too easy”
he should try and make it harder by not being such an obvious loon.
Voice, I do agree with the second half of your comment, in so much as Jones does not do himself any favours with the ranting, and such like. As always , it should not detract from the message, and information, being delivered!
If you believe, that subject matter Jones has been making information, public on for years, does not make him more credible, you’re as deluded, as you claim , the like of Jones are!
Simply, it comes down to a couple of key points
1: Fear, what else might people like Jones, be correct on, that people such as yourself have derided him over!
2: Ego, and the belief that such *conspiracy theorists*, are intellectually beneath you, because how could a *conspiracy theorist*, possibly know/understand/have access to more informed knowledge/information, that *thy self*!
These two points, sum up, more than adequately, the inability to allow people, such as Jones, their fair dues!
The problem with your analysis is that Jones is correct on nothing and I don’t sneer at him because he is intellectually my inferior. You may be right that he is, but it’s not for me to say.
This is from prisonplanet.com, Jones’ site. Is he wrong about it?
In 1907, more than a decade before Hitler began his ascent to power in Germany, the U.S. had already enacted its first eugenics sterilization law. According to historical accounts, then-Indiana Governor J. Frank Hanly approved a law mandating sterilization of certain individuals in state custody, building on systems of thought already covertly established in the late 1800s that alleged traits like criminality, mental problems, and even being poor were hereditary.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/what-does-americas-dark-history-of-eugenics-mean-for-society-today.html
Probably, yes. It depends on what conclusion he draws from the historical fact.
So what you’re saying is the fact relating to the US origin of eugenics (from his site) is correct, even though he is correct on nothing like you said before?
It would probably just be simpler if you admitted that he is sometimes right.
is that his assertion, as in something that he discovered? Or is it merely a restatement of previously known information rather than an analysis or prediction that is his, and that therefore goes straight to his credibility?
I’m sure Alex Jones has said that “two plus two equals four”. One could say that therefore “Jones is correct on nothing” is false. But this would be a trite piece of pedantry made to distract from the substantive truth.
could save me money on condoms.
It’s the elves.
http://archive.org/details/GlobalistElite-GuidanceByMachineElvesContactedThorughDmt
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/alex_jones_dmt_elves_want_the_elites_to_kill_us_all
There is a scene in Papillon where Henri Charrière, reflects that he may be innocent but he is guilty of a wasted life, a far greater crime. Reflecting on the years I have been aware of Peter Duune is also an exercise in waste. I cannot see what he has achieved other than steering with the tiller set directly to the bow, a grey unbending certainty.
I was first aware of Peter when he was President at Canterbury, very boring he was too, no beer chiller for student events on his agenda, a wowser par excellence. From there to Alcohol Liquor Advisory Council, maybe his only “real” job, maybe the only time I am aware of him standing for anything (old fashioned wowserism). To Labour, hand picked, and still you ask, what did he stand for? Who knows, Karori and Labour to their eternal shame allowed this man of no known meaning to flourish. Maybe his greyness reflected them.
Jumping ship to NZ Future, an amorphous blob congealing again around no real meaning or ideological direction, what did we learn apart from his ability to desert one party and sign up for the next. It becomes all about Peter and position, cabinet minister for two different parties. Still what does he stand for? Who and what is he?
What are we left with? Absolutely nothing. His legacy? A waste of our time.
you got that right!
Shakespeare and the death of Lady Macbeth comes to mind…”Out, out, brief candle! Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
have you seen the film Anonymous?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1521197/?ref_=sr_1
often I view a film so telling and profound, I do not need to watch another one for ages; this was one of those. I never studied Shakespeare at school, or Uni for that matter, but the Bard rocks, easier to follow than Chaucer, and some of the modern adaptations are excellent context translations. There is one with Ralph Fiennes, Coriolanus, that I would like to see.
The film of Onegin with Fiennes is excellent too.
So you read the dilemma of the candle in the wind, never knowing who to turn to when the rain sets in. As the ‘Spengler’ link from C.V yesterday identifies, all the artistic modes of cultural transmission just get re# 😉
“There are no indisputable truths
and there ain’t no fountain of youth…”
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/o/ozzy+osbourne/i+just+want+you_20103963.html
although, been reflecting, I do not feel any different in age than before, strange that, Peter Pan, trapped in time; must be “something wrong” or right with us when our self-concept does not match our “social-clock” age.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM33_L2kKnQ
Not seen Anonymous….will compare notes when I have. I ignored Shakespeare at school, started reading it when the internet bored me senseless. Corialanus, wonderful, also….liked the Richard the Third film too. Much good that does me with the world, lots of useless information handed down for me to spout…in the words of Morrissey..
I am the son and heir
Of nothing in particular
aren’t we all, ‘But Wait, There’s More’, Michelle Boag, the Suzanne Clip Massage Pillow of the National Party.
Takes a while to ‘master’ discerning use of the Internet yet we may have it down pat for now. What next? Like the half-eaten apple-worm, remains to be seen. Who would be a post-modern social archaeologist aye! Still, delays and distracts from excessive anaesthetization,zzzzzzzzzz.
Wow. Key is on Radio New Zealand and Kim Hill is giving him heaps. What has happened to inquisitorial journalism. More please.
I’ve waited a long time to hear that interview.
I miss Kim Hill Please please come back.
Indeed! I’m also hoping that when we get PS Television back, she might feature prominently. It’ll take something like that to finally bury the ‘rent-a-commentator’ electronic media we see at the moment.
She did do a stint on TV in the 90’s??
But she is better on Radio
Yep – Face to Face apparently wasn’t a roaring success, however in the absence of anything similar, we might find something like that would have a better run today. But as you say, radio is her forte.
She is fiercely intelligent, and extremely well read. Many don’t like her manner, but at least she stands for the principles of the 4th Estate.
There are others of course – scattered around the spectrum and often parked up in off peak time slots.
NZ On Screen has some clips.
I remember all those harsh angles and close ups. Really unnecessary, not only because they were distracting, but because Hill is enough of a drawcard herself and doesn’t need faux windowdressing.
My first impression of Kim Hill was watching her interview John Pilger on Face to Face. Thought she was an embarrassment to NZ journalism, and couldn’t bring myself to watch her again. Was inspired to read John Pilger though – so not a complete waste of time.
Part of the episode is on NZonScreen but I recall her being quite antagonistic from the get go – she really seemed to want him to admit that NZ should join the US in their War on Terror.
Was surprised to find out how many enjoy her interviews. After all this time, I may be able to listen again without prejudice and give it another go.
Do give her a go. It’s sad to realise that idols often have clay feet, and Pilger is one of them. He may be on the right side, but he seems to have a real problem with women who ask questions.
It’s perhaps epitomised by this series, Edward Said’s Reith Lectures “Gods that Always Fail”:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00gxqwn
Tim
Do you honestly think we can get PS tv back? It would be a great example of having a vital left wing in politics again. But unlikely to happen. The user pays aspect of it predominates rather than the connected, informed citizen who can make good political decisions.
We won’t be able to afford it as we end up earning similar to the 1930s and go onto ever flatter tax rates. (Someone on radio talking about what we pay for prison meals – $4.50 a day per person I thought I heard.)
@ Prism.
You’re probably going to regret you ever got me started, but “Do you honestly think we can get PS tv back?”
My answer is YES – with provisos of course.
[ Actually I’ll try and limit myself because my self imposed 1 week ban hasn’t been that successful, and (I THINK it is still in force until tomorrow).
I THINK I might have pissed Irish Bill off close to a week ago by becoming borderline personal (not sure) – I just have a certain disposition that coaxes a fight in me based on what is sauce for ganders is source for gooses .
The likes of Soimon Brudges and Labour’s old guard, (among many others, often lap up the sauce but can’t handle the kick-back). There are also certain contributors on here that are quick to accuse (and to assume – Popsicles, TC’s, other provocateurs and their ilk whose only desire is to exercise their egos) – who quite frankly PISS ME OFF. (There’s a popsicle, for example, that accused me of homophobia, sexism, and a number of other things – oh…. racism even, that doesn;t actually know me from the bar of soap he intentionally dropped in the shower)
AND in any event, I wouldn’t presume to impose on the owners, or ‘stakeholders’ of this site – I’d prefer to just observe, take it all in, and admire their gumption for making the whole thing possible. (I realise that sounds very Mora-esque, but I’m not the one that’s invested the time and effort in providing this platform – so it’s on their terms of course! In other words – I’m an anonymouse Guest – anonymouse for very good reason, and it’d be pretty damn crass of me to try and intentionally offend). Yep – the ban isn’t up, and I’m still in ‘simmer down mode’ ]
So …. YES – we can get PS TV (NOT ‘State Service’ TV) back.
It’ll require:
– A Curran to put her money where her mouth is (and/or any other of the alternative political parties spokesfolk on b’casting)
– Her parliamentary colleagues (from both sides of the aisle) to rediscover their souls.
– Her/Them (or whoever else) to devise a legal and political mechanism that ensures any future attempt to tamper is
a) difficult
b) politically embarrassing
It’s a challenge I know – because the lack of commitment to PSTV in recent times has been really fucking pathetic:
– Labour (last) made a bit of a fatal mistake in that they never really thought past the short term. (Funding issues; those in charge of what was supposed to be our TV PSB:
a) not really being THAT committed to it,
b) essentially being over-ambitious and egotistically driven;
c) putting the commercial imperative before the public interest;
d) being over-ambitious and egotistically driven;
e) being over-ambitious and egotistically driven;
f) being over-ambitious and egotistically driven;
g) not actually understanding the nature of PSB and what it is about.
– The issue of funding and how we might ensure it remains a viable proposition in an environment of various divergence AND convergence.
– A population/generation that’s never been given the opportunity to experience a media alternative
-etc., etc., etc.
DISTRACTION: (Oh GAWD ….. Jummy Jum is blaring in the background and dear old Rosie MacLeeUdd is ‘On the Panel’ – given my anonymouse background it’s hard to turn her off but I’ll continue (in the hope you’re interested in the opinion of moi that you asked for). Thankfully she’s alongside someone half decent!
Here’s an expose of my prejudices: HOW the fuck did she ever shack up with THAT?1)
She comes across as such a nice passive lady these days, and increasingly, her newsprint columns are lessening in the intensity of their offensiveness. (Oh sorry Darling)
BACK TO THE POINT – and given the above:
YES ….. PSTV is utterly possible in a population of 4 mill.
I’ve given the provisos.
Sure there are going to be difficulties.
– There are KORDIA’s, Munsteries of Culcha & Heritages that have completely fucked up.
– There are those (because of short term imperatives) that have undermined Freeviews; tried all sorts of unions for monetary gain (a la Heartlands, IGLOOS, protested intellectual property rights and whether or public interest and ownership rights might be an issue, etc., etc.). MOST – n fact ALL that I can see can be countered.
There are good, capable people still around that are ready, willing and able to get it all off the ground (and they aren’t ALL nasty ahrd lefties) either.
You know what…. (What?)!
The public in recent years feels alienated from government, AND many/most politicians have managed to alienate themselves from the public in some way.
They might consider the idea that a true electronic (because that’s the only way that it’s possible in 21C) public sphere, a 4th Estate that adheres AND actually understands the concept, and a media mix that incorporates PSB (radio.tv, internet, and whatever else emerges), commercial & non-commercial; risk taking and compliant, is THE ONLY way they might earn back some credibility.
Told ya you wouldb’t want to get me started ( and I’ve limited myself completely – it could have been much worse)
I could have gone on about HOW the system might be implemented (with due regard to the dominance of SKY; the disposition of Freeview and its intentional neutering; the neo-lib concern for exclusivity of the ownership of property – including intellectual property – ALL that kaka.
PS – let me know if you want my opinion of the WHO and HOW – they’re not all nasty lefties
Yes indeed! At long last, someone has Key on the backfoot with him even using the Shearer-type ‘ums and ers’.
This is what real journalism is all about.
All power to Kim Hill!
– – – – and let’s give her support when the right-wing vultures descend on her. And they will.
And here is the audio.
Enjoy!
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20130610-0735-john_key_responds_to_claims_from_winston_peters-048.mp3
or the download http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2558021/john-key-responds-to-claims-from-winston-peters
Wonderful stuff…methinks of rats and sinking ships, maybe sensing the winds of change. Who next will follow, who will be left?
Quite amazing to hear what John Key is like. It is fantastic that he is being interviewed. More please.
“Three people were identified as having access to the report, two were eliminated…”
Perhaps as head of our security services John Key could use alternative wording next time 😈
“Three people were identified as having access to the report, two were eliminated…”
Oh dear.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/08/intelligence-officials-nsa-leak_n_3409726.html
He pronounced Ohariu as “Oh-hur-ia” too.
CV
LOL.
Oh, no .. I think he meant *exactly* what he said ..
Kim Hill is the closest thing to a goddess New Zealand broadcasting has, although, she can be a little vague and presumptious at times, imho. 😉
ghostr888 +1 – and she reveals herself as a human, as well as a goddess.
Poor old John did not get a chance to use his trademark, “Um. Now let’s take a step back……” so that your question gets lost.
And “I wouldn’t agree with that proposition. I have plenty of experts who would say otherwise….”
Thanks Kim Hill. And fancy getting Mr Key to front for a serious issue on National Radio!!
“Who set the parameters for the enquiry which did not give the power to question under oath?”
“We did.”
“What a silly boy you are John.”
(Paraphrased.)
Kim Hill ROCKS!!
Yep, ShonKey sounded rather billious, but he also must have had a head set on direct to Crosby Textor HQ, because for someone with such bad recall he effortlessly tossed in references to two Labour MPs who got in tight spots. Yet as the supreme “Yes Minister” he can barely remember anything about the GCSB like appointing his mate and on and on.
Kim is a treasure, and while she has been pressed into service on Morning Report it would be great if she could stay around for another 12 months. She played a significant role in the 90s drilling into the Nats and NZ1.
TM I think that too many NACTs sound as if they were odious little bullies at school who managed to dominate with name calling and vituperation at annoying opposition. It suits Key to come out with a yah-boo about others – if they did it why shouldn’t we – is the argument. Even if ‘they’ actually didn’t do it, calling some mistake to the public’s mind with a lie of fact, just confuses past memories and obscures the present.
It is interesting that Labour used Trevor Mallard rather than Helen Clark doing the roasting in parliament, yet John Key has found his true calling as being the mocking voice for the NACTs.
“Kim Hill ROCKS!!”
She sure does. Key always sounds like a mildly-educated fool, but Kim makes him sound like a schoolboy trying to use the ‘dog ate my homework’ excuse for his first assignment.
Kim Hill for PM!!!!!!!!
In case you missed this yesterday?
FYI
Press Alert: Auckland mayoral Candidate Penny Bright:
PROTEST! Against the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill , at Auckland,
TODAY Monday 10 June from 9.30am – 11am!
Social Services Select Committee are hearing verbal submissions IN AUCKLAND on this Bill, from 9am – 4.30pm, MONDAY 10 June 2013.
WHERE? At the Ellerslie Novotel Hotel 72 – 112 Greenlane East, Ellerslie.
http://www.novotel.com/gb/hotel-3060-novotel-auckland-ellerslie/location.shtml
WHY? Only 13 days were allowed for submissions!
This bill will allow government to override communities and councils if they don’t agree with decisions.
The bill also supports non-notification and no right of appeal.
***PLEASE COME IF YOU OBJECT TO THESE UNDEMOCRATIC PRACTICES***
I will be giving my submission from 4.10pm – 4.20pm, then giving EVIDENCE to support the following petition, from 4.20pm – 4.30pm.
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Presented/Petitions/5/0/5/50DBHOH_PET3157_1-Petition-of-Penelope-Mary-Bright-requesting-that.htm
Petition of Penelope Mary Bright
Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics”high”population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.
Petition number: 2011/64
Presented by: Holly Walker
Date presented: 30 May 2013
Referred to: Social Services Committee
_________________________________________________________
MORE BACKGROUND INFORMATION:
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?page_id=137
Penny Bright
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate
Wow, I have listened to Kim Hill interviewing John Key, the PM just about over an hour ago, and what a breath of fresh air is she bringing to Morning Report on Radio NZ National!
I have not heard any journalist putting the hard questions to any politician like this for bloody years! It is impressive and revealing at the same time. It shows that most journalist and reporters out there are pathetic in their job these days, not up to it, or not interested in asking a Prime Minister or lesser ministers or other politicians the questions that deserve to be asked:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2558021/john-key-responds-to-claims-from-winston-peters
Check it out yourselves! This shows what a dodgy and insincere person John Key is, he is also presenting himself as a rather whimpish, weak PM now, and listening to his unconvincing answers to some question, it is clear, his days are numbered. Yes, Key is on his way out! He does not sound like he is much interested in doing a proper job and holding his ministers or support party “leaders” to account.
A laissez fair propagator displaying a very laissez faire attitude, letting Dunne off the hook too early and being short of answers. Key is showing to be a rather irresponsible, slack leader, who only acts resolutely and ruthlessly when rarely re-arranging cabinet or biting, shouting at and abusing disliked opposition members and leaders.
He may have been the smiling assassin in his business days, but hey, he does not sound like one as PM at present. Maybe it is all getting too much for him?
This is a must listen item! It could prove to be historic!
Again no edit allowed, why? I just tried to correct a grammar mistake and add a few words, but not authorised to edit with 4 minutes still left? Something seems wrong with the edit function at times.
Xtasy
What a shame it wasn’t a televised interview.Would have been compulsive viewing..He must be nuts to think he could talk/walk all over Kim Hill.
Hi Xtasy
The current shower intend to copy the Tory Toffs in the U$K in the persecution of hapless bennies. here’s a link for you to follow what’s going on there and could come here! 🙂 🙁
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/
Thanks johnm!
Yes, it is disgusting, and it is clear, it is the increasing divide between a small lot at the top raking in millions or in some cases billions, and more and more slipping down the income ladder, which causes injustice.
But by using such tactics, the tories use undermining tactics to keep enough lulled into the belief, that it is the beneficiaries that are the problem. It is a major diversion tactic.
By the way, as I was told, Housing NZ tenants do already get statements sent regularly, telling them what the “market rental cost” is for the property they live in, and I believe one also told me he got the valuation (based on the Council’s valuation, or even market valuation) sent in it.
So Housing NZ are already “reminding” their tenants, how “much” they are being “subsidised” and thus supposedly “privileged” to suck of the states’ teats!
It is already underway there, and with the “investment approach” on welfare now to become the norm, I suspect that IRD will eventually send out information on how much tax payers subsidise WINZ and their “clients” for.
So that all shows, a third term of this lot must be stopped, absolutely! And Labour must be sent the message where NOT to go!
.. is the mp3 downloadable ?
Thanks, Xtasy ..
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2558021/john-key-responds-to-claims-from-winston-peters
29 year old NSA employee outs himself to media as Prism leaker
If you’re interested in the deteriorating balance between civil rights, democracy and the surveillance state, read this.
Conspiracy theory becomes conspiracy fact yet again.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-09/nsa-whistleblower-reveals-himself
“Conspiracy theory becomes conspiracy fact yet again”
No. Surely that cannot be right.
You mean JFK was not actually shot by a lone gunman? That is was……. somebodies else? …….. but what would this mean?
“Conspiracy theory becomes conspiracy fact yet again”
What this means undeniably of course, is that all statements from all authorities must be treated as lies and distortion as a default starting point. … a bit like conspiracy theories actually ……
What I am still trying to get my head around is that if the GCSB is able to get hold of my metadata will they then whisk it off to the US so that the NSA can add it to their accumulated data. Are we witnessing the growth of one big world wide metadatabase?
Should we be concerned?
Clare Curran has (ahem) also raised concerns …
http://blog.labour.org.nz/2013/06/09/too-close-for-comfort-is-the-gcsb-spying-on-us/
I always thought that the entire idea of Echelon was so that “allied” intelligence agencies could spy on other members’ citizens for each other and kick back useful data from an “undisclosed source”.
That and act as a permanent data suck for the US, of course.
Try EMC Israel for data warehousing.
It fits the 9/11 Israel espionage event fairly well.
🙄
holed up in a Hong Kong hotel, awaiting rendition to Gitmo.
More like the IT guy has a narcissistic personality disorder and fantasies of being James Bond, seeks international media martyrdom, and flees to – of all places – Hong Kong.
He knows what he’s doing, mate. He’s been in this game for almost 10 years now. You on the other hand, have no idea.
That’s a bit of a switch from when you used to accuse me of being a CIA agent, CV. But the fact of the matter is he’s a desk jockey of 10 years, not an actual operative, and that famous interview is full of alot of “I” and “me” and “my”.
Did someone say he was ‘an operative’? And what would that mean in relation to what we are talking about anyway? Why would it matter?
Did Daniel Ellsberg being a ‘desk jockey’ change anything about what he did?
And why is it tellling that an interview explaining his motives for leaking what he leaked contained “I”, “me”, and “my” statements?
What is your point, exactly?
Simply that it all adds up to a picture of him not being very credible or really that much of a spy. More likely this 29 year old high school and community college drop out and army wash out is working for another power. Oh look, Hong Kong….
Show your working. It doesn’t add up at all. There are lots of people in IT with few formal academic quals.
It’s ‘more likely’ that he is working for China than what? That he is a whistleblower?
And who said he was a ‘spy’?
Some small names like Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates might agree.
Basically P1 is pretending that Snowden’s “credibility” is an issue. The simple fact of the matter is: Snowden has delivered the goods, they are real and verifiable, and even the NSA and senior Congressmen agree.
P1 on the other hand…is just bitching about bullshit.
lolz, sounds like envy just because P1 can’t score a US$200K pa job with Booz Allen Hamilton because he’s not up to it, but a 29 year old high school and community college drop out and army wash out can.
Don’t fret P1, you’re not that shit that you can’t complete with Mr Snowden-Dropout-Washout!
Ah, another demonstration of CV’s preternatural ability to psychoanalyse quasi-fictional personae at a distance by means of the the internet. How droll.
So you admit that your bringing up of Snowden being a dropout and a washout was an irrelevant distraction then?
Yep. It is as much of a personality talent as exercise in knowledge. Some of the most knowing IT people I have known have had little more than a burning desire to be good at whatever they obsessed on.
Even more (like me) have few formal qualifications in anything IT related. My main academic quals are in earth sciences and management, with a smattering of mostly 3rd year comp sci tacked on after I’d already been working the field for years (deadly boring papers).
The numbers of people qualified in comp sci or business computing who continue to be active in actual IT after a decade or two are pretty minimal. They move off into management or business analysis. The field is full of people who just like doing it and who (like me) resist attempts to move them out of the hands-on IT.
It’s an interesting phenomenon yes?
In my experience, the best IT ‘professionals’ (specifically those that cut code, and who over time come to despise – or are at least cynical of – all those BS middle and snr management BS artists who shove their cost-accounting oars in at the most inappropriate of times, shove their ‘expertise’ in whilst projects are midway through, etc., etc.), are usually those that have ‘outside interests in the creative arts, or who have some sort of outlet completely divorced from ‘nerdism’.
I find it interesting that you moved from ‘management’ towards the more technical.
I shudda cudda wudda perhaps, but instead I opted for something TOTALLY divorced from IT/ITC – whatever other buzz acronym is in vogue these days. (Show me a Systems Development Life Cycle – I’ll show you Synchronous Data Link Control).
Jim (the sage) Mora has a guest on now – banging on about how small/NZ IT professionals aren’t getting a look in (AND THEY AREN’T). With all due deference to the impending IRD redevelopment. The small/ the NZ are of course completely correct – they’ve been consulted/middle & senior managed out of any sort of ‘look in’.
Fark!!! $1.5 Billion – I’d guarantee the govt and IRD success on pain of DEATH ffs!. In fact if I failed – I’d get my own son to pull the frikken trigger!
There are Joyce-like ilk who have a shit load to answer for
Yeah. From what I understand the existing systems are mostly cobol at the core with some wacking great big databases.
I mostly code highly threaded optimized c++ server style apps for tight spaces (sometimes tight hardware, sometimes massively multi-user) often with Qt/MFC and/or web front faces and/or anything else and just about any kind of data backend from old serial RS232 to wacking big databases or encrypted pipes over the net. And it keeps getting more technical the longer I stay learning because some of the older tech is still useful and keep showing up in newer tech. For instance I was surprised as hell to find stuff that I learnt back in the 80’s for doing EGA graphics screens works pretty damn well for frame buffered embedded devices.
But I avoid corporate because they never seem to manage to finish anything before some dumbarse does the new broom trick with assorted buzzwords (Telecom comes to mind) or some jerkoff “analyst” promises the customer stage 3 in stage 1 causing the inevitable stage 0 project collapse (INCIS comes to mind).
I’m afraid that I tend to agree with the IRD on this. The local IT corporate management tends to be a bit pisspoor and sloppy for anything that is system critical development. Hardly surprising when you look at the beaten down wrecks toiling with their heads low for the wage.
The problem is that the government doesn’t exactly have many people who could oversee a project at a sufficient technical depth (ie they don’t really know what their own systems really do now). So they’ll wind up spending far too much on overseas contracts and fail to bring in enough local companies on relatively minor segments to get them ready for the maintenance phases. Nett effect is that the system will be clumsy, stiff, and rigid and horrendously expensive to redevelop in the future.
Needless to say I will be avoiding the IRD project like the plague even if there were any bits of interest in there.
Also he’s 29. Are you saying he was an agent at age 19 having never even finished high school?
No one said he was any sort of ‘agent’.
I ask again, what do you mean by that in relation to the areas he has been working in?
And the Sophie Scholl award for 2013 for extraordinary resistance surely goes to Edward Snowden.
“…I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant.” The quote from the Guardian that ensures historians will forever remember him alongside the likes of Benjamin Franklin as a hero of liberty.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance
Over the next month they are going to vilify the poor bastard through every media channel and he knows it.
holed up in a Hong Kong hotel awaiting rendition to Gitmo.
Duplicity
I forgot about that one
Um, no – Sophie Scholl was beheaded for holding to her simple truths. Snowden is a computer geek playing secret agent man from the safety of Chinese territory. Please don’t compare them – it makes me nauseous.
The state of your gut is rather irrelevant to the state of the union.
You should write a novel. Preferably from a Hong Kong hotel with a well-stocked mini bar
Snowden is a computer geek….
Ha! Not even one day since the revelation, and he’s parroting the official line of denigration.
Make no mistake: Populuxe1 would have condemned Sophie Scholl with the same sneering malice that he uses for her modern equivalents.
Given I have made pilgrmage to Geschwister-Scholl-Platz in Munich, I somehow doubt that, you ridiculous pustulating fistula on the anus of humanity
I admire your use of language 🙂
Cheers McFlock, you’re no slouch either 😉
Given I have made pilgrmage to Geschwister-Scholl-Platz in Munich…
That settles it, of course. You’re a real champion of the dissenter.
Really you are.
Bovvered?
I’m not sure why you seem to be.
If I had leaked the sort of information he had I also would probably look for refuge under the umbrella of the most powerful ‘countervailing force’ on the planet. The US has shown repeatedly that the one country it is unable to push around is China – for obvious reasons.
And, in fact, that is the reason given:
“He chose the city because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent”, and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.”
The decision to hole up in Hong Kong therefore seems very rational – especially given that Hong Kong remains quite westernised and so is the part of China that would likely be most amenable (and welcoming?) to an American. It was also quite close to Hawaii.
You seem to be implying that he is part of a (Chinese?) conspiracy to make wrongful allegations against the NSA (why else would you talk about his lack of credibility – i.e., believability) – despite him having provided the documents. And despite Obama appearing to acknowledge that “these programmes” do, indeed, exist.
Welcome back Kim ! Your country needs you to keep mediocrity at bay in these ‘interesting’ times.
Kim is wonderful but how would Shearer go if he was on the receiving end of one of her tough interviews, too scary to contemplate.
The time will come .. it could be cathartic for us all.
Better he get put in the spotlight now, rather than 16 months from now.
Between Kim Hill and Kim Dotcom, it’s turning into an inauspicious name for the Nats.
Here’s a freebie for Mathew:
Kim ‘Ill-san
no doubt it’ll be along those lines
OFGS
Wyndham is correct! http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10062013/#comment-646204 above .
“– – – – and let’s give her support when the right-wing vultures descend on her. And they will”
Watch ‘the right’ try and spin Kim Hill’s interview with Key this morning.
Mummy mummy Radio NZ is being mean to me!
I expect it to begin around 1105AM today on Radio NZ if it hasn’t already elsewhere.
Yep, it will be titled like “red flag raised above Radio New Zealand National studios”, the bolsheviks have seized control of our media, or something similar, I suspect.
Time to have a word with RNZ’s CEO, he will advise John Key, about staffing matters.
I was wrong X (although he probably did a brief scan of TS this morning and realised Kim Hill has the respect of folk ACROSS the political spectrum). Instead, Mathew’s little hissy fit this morning was directed at Helen Kelley. It even seemed to embarrass Rinnie Ryan (though Mike Williams remained silent), and her calls to Mathew to repent met with defiance. Any Hail Mary’s were nowhere in sight. As predicted though, Mike was there as usual to clip the ticket and give a plug for the Ghost of Paul Holmes. What sages – the pair of them – the THREE of them in fact. I am in awe!
Tim – I suspect they (all three) meet for a social afternoon tea together, at least one afternoon per week, having a great chattering time.
National Party mastermind Steven Joyce almost always refuses to let Key go on Morning Report—when it’s only the avuncular (and weak) Geoff Robinson and the even weaker Simon Mercep.
So why on EARTH would Joyce agree to let Key be interviewed by Kim Hill, who has eviscerated far sharper and far more powerful men than him?
I suspect Joyce is manipulating the prime minister, and not in a caring way.
Perhaps Joyce was this morning still in bed, trying to revive himself slowly, with a terrible hangover, after a dreadful Friday afternoon and too much “medication” for stressed out nerves over all of the weekend?
I have been boycotting RadioNZ because I felt the quality has dropped in recent years.
Accidentally hit the bedside radio-clock on this morning and it was lovely to hear the PM being interviewed by Kim Hill.
I am a real fan of the PM now and reckon he should really give it back to Kim Hill next time 🙂
National Radio certainly delivered better programming prior to the Key government taking over the reign and placing some new personalities on the board and amongst staff.
Publicly funded broadcasting simply is not a priority for this lot.
But I am sure you do prefer Radio Live or 1ZB for early morning “stimulation” anyway, so you do not forget what to put on your daily shopping list.
I have absolutely revealing information now on Professor Mansel Aylward, director of the Centre for Psychosocial and Disability Research at Cardiff University, who has been one of the top “advisors” of Paula Bennett as Minister for Social Development, thus the government, and of the ‘Health and Disability Panel’ that is in charge of overseeing and assisting the implementation of the very radical, draconian, in part most likely illegal welfare changes in decades here in New Zealand.
Under the ‘Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Act’ sickness beneficiaries will as of 15 July be turned into “jobseekers” (some with deferred status for work testing and work ability), and invalid’s beneficiaries (and some others caring for infirm) will come into the category called Supported Living Payment.
ALL will at some stage face work capacity assessments, which will be at the discretion of the Chief Executive of MSD And WINZ, thus can be repeated as they see fit, and the assessments will be designed along the ones already used by the Department of Work and Pension in the UK for years. The assessments have in part been developed with the involvement of Mansel Aylward and others, who has for his research had financial assistance by controversial private US insurance giant Unum, who changed their name repeatedly after having lost major court battles in the US about their handling of claims.
Now insiders know how bizarre and apparently controversial Professor Aylward’s interpretation of the so-called “bio psycho social model” for assessment and treatment of sick, disabled and incapacitated persons is, and how he has served UK governments and been involved in declaring many disabled and seriously ill as “fit for work”, while in fact they were not. Some indeed are known to have committed suicide due to not being able to handle pressures and facing loss of benefits.
While Aylward, a so-called “Sir” now, and also a “Dame” Carol Black are known propagators of pushing resolutely for getting sick into work, as they see the “benefits of work” being kind of the best medicine, a post on ACC Forum has just revealed to me that Aylward is nothing but a strong adherent of “pseudo sciences” of his own inventions. He claims that most that insist on having mental health conditions and physical health issues are merely suffering from “illness belief”.
He seems to be keen on serving government agencies and employers to save costs, by pushing sick and disabled to become tax paying workers, to avoid the economic costs of “worklessness”, but at the same time he has also hit out at people sticking around their work places longer than may seem necessary, thus creating additional costs in overtime, while just engaging in what he calls “presenteism”.
Have a read of the following:
“‘Presenteeism’ culture of long hours sweeps Welsh offices – an article in Wales Online from 24 April 2008”:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/presenteeism-culture-long-hours-sweeps-2185349
That man is a true danger in himself, being such a self-serving “scientist” with his own “inventions” of conditions, be this “illness belief” or “presenteism”. Is this for real, or is this a “nut case” of a “medical expert”, formerly even Chief Medical Officer for the DWP, now having major influence on how sick and disabled beneficiaries are going to be treated in New Zealand?!
He has had a major meeting with Paula Bennett last year, and appears to continue influencing her and senior MSD decision makers!
xtasy, the practice of creating dubious conditions goes back to at least Sigmund Freud .. this case seems to, be a case of prejudice .. if not business .. masquerading as science.
http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatosbusinessunum.html
http://labourlist.org/2012/06/ids-isnt-just-out-of-touch-hes-in-la-la-land/
http://dpac.uk.net/tag/work-capability-assessment-wca/
http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatosveterans.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7kNVk5qA1pQJ:iiac.independent.gov.uk
http://ki.se/ki/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=149952&d=42687&l=sv
http://angliameaction.org.uk/docs/corporate-drift-net.pdf.
http://iiac.independent.gov.uk/pdf/reports/IIAC60_anniversary_mtg_notes.pdf.
http://iiac.independent.gov.uk/pdf/annrep/annrep0506.pdf
http://ki.se/content/1/c6/14/99/67/Mansel%20Aylward%20Dec%2001%2008.pdf.
http://downwithallthat.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/a-very-tangled-web/
http://readmeukevents.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/prof-mansel-aylward-and-the-rsm/
http://downwithallthat.wordpress.com/2011/07/14/22/
http://yourpaljohnny.blogspot.co.nz/2008/05/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont.html
Enjoy ..
Snakeoil: I agree – and it shows again, the IQ level of Paula Bennett, for falling for the guy’s bizarre and nonsensical “findings” and theories.
While more and more people in the UK, those affected of course, but also increasingly medical experts and ordinary doctors, are realising what utter idiotic, distorted, largely unproved and indeed quite dangerous stuff Mansel Aylward and others are “teaching” and propagating, Bennett, many of her anyway biased government colleagues – and some at MSD here in New Zealand are sucking it up into their empty brain spaces as pure gospel from a “scientific” source.
I would put it down to inexperience and westie parochialism. IQ is another troublesome concept. As Textor might have put it, putting Paula in the job was all about the ‘optics’ .. it looked good and the media would buy it for a while .. but ignorance after two terms is no excuse. There are some very entrenched attitudes in some quarters ..
xtasy
You misunderstand Poorer Benefit. Her intelligence is high and is matched to her, and the other right wing politicians, low cunning. If only they could stop the welfare payments and have all that money available to them who knows what they could achieve? She has the power and not much moral fibre against its corrupting influence.
Mansel whatsname is another medical marvel, to some people, like Sir Robert Professor Winston. And they are so handy to appeal to for authority when wanting to move against the needy. A religious authority for the Right to believe in.
….another medical marvel, to some people, like Sir Robert Professor Winston.
Lord Winston is a moral reprobate, a supporter of mass murder and a liar…. http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-01082011/#comment-358776
Are you sure you’re not Eric Cartman from South Park:
“Es Ist Zeit zu säubern! Wir müssen die Juden ausrotten!”
Nevermind sweetheart, you’re in good company with Mel Gibson and John Galliano. Carry on.
That’s a Godwin’s, you halfwit!
Why? Neither Mel Gibson or John Galliano are to my knowledge Nazis… (in any case the fairy that was supposed to bring you a sense of irony at your christening obviously got sidetracked)
Neither Mel Gibson or John Galliano are to my knowledge Nazis…
Whether or not they are, I have no doubt you would have functioned perfectly well in Nazi Germany.
Anyway, you have a job to do: get out there and pour scorn on Edward Snowden. See if he’s had dodgy sexual relations with a couple of Chinese girls over there, then lie your arse off like you did with Assange.
Snowden deserves the same, no doubt!
Why can’t you simply deal with the fact Assange is an arrogant git who has no respect for women? He’d hardly be the first popular hero to have feet of clay.
Why can’t you simply deal with the fact Assange is an arrogant git who has no respect for women?
Just like Martin Luther King was. The FBI had a huge dossier on him; they didn’t have to use it in the end, due to the fortunate events in Memphis in April 1968.
He’d hardly be the first popular hero to have feet of clay.
No. And he’s not the first popular hero to be vilified and persecuted either.
Jeez, what a naive twat you can be, Moz. MLK had affairs, the FBI regularly taped him and released the evidence to whoever they thought could bring him down. His weakness for consensual sex outside of marriage is not the same thing as sexually assaulting people, then running and hiding when called on it.
He’s not naive TRP, he’s self-serving.
must say xtasy, even some of the mad amongst us would prefer something fulfilling and productive to do, but then…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………sigh.
ghostrider888 – of course, but you would want to be respected and be given a fair chance to have some say and input in what is best with certain health conditions, and what is not. Also would you expect that person’s own doctors would be given some credit, rather than some MSD “trained” and practically “hand picked” “designated doctor” or Regional Health Advisor paid for by WINZ.
But we know where it is all heading, dressed up as well-meant “support” and “sound measures” to empower and enable sick and disabled with incapacities. My experience tells me, apply a high measure of scrutiny and distrust, especially when anything comes from Paula Bennett, Key and their government.
from my experiences, for those clients lacking in self-advocacy and impression-management skills, dealing with government agencies, and The Legal System, can be a treacherous confidence course. As you identify, valuable to have medical / health professionals familiar with your journey and a well-documented history. 😉
Even current experiences of a family-member with an infant in hospital is not encouraging; child left with rising temperature until grandmother, a nurse advocates for intervention, mother on a mattress on a floor, ffs. Health System is beginning the predicted haemorrhage of funding and human resources.
Employer theft.
http://www.alternet.org/labor/when-your-boss-steals-your-wages-invisible-epidemic-thats-sweeping-america
http://www.equalvoiceforfamilies.org/wage-war-employers-stealing-millions-from-us-workers/
http://www.legalcheek.com/2013/05/westminster-school-auctions-a-mini-pupillage/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/fashion/for-20-somethings-ambition-at-a-cost.html?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/joris-luyendijk-banking-blog/2012/jan/27/banking-intern-voices-of-finance
smelt The Posies; like a rose. Hear the Song to the Siren.
just watched Matthew Hooten spinning for the Tories on Firstline; his “patriotic” advice that “Dunne should remain in Parliament, and let the government finish it’s 18 months (for the economy)” you understand, for the economy.
freakin’ Tories are Running Scared.
Our sovereign economy depends on Peter Dunne? Yeah, right.
reading this thread, and watching the MSM, what other conclusion can one draw other than NAct, their backers and flunkies are shitting bricks; they do not want a by-election in Oh-who-rea.
You should know that “Matthew Hooton, Nats’ spin doctor” is an anagram of….
“Satanist; not topnotch whoredom.”
Morrissey You are on a roll. Brain revved up like a Harley-Davidson?
Morrissey You are on a roll. Brain revved up like a Harley-Davidson?
Not according to our resident grinch, McFlock.
My god, M -nailed it again. Superb!
You are doing great work for beneficiaries Xstasy, keep up the good job.
ANAGRAM TIME
No. 2: Peters stymies Dunne’s legover
Dottiness revenges supremely.
See also….
No. 1: John and Bronwyn Key ===> Now handy, bonny jerk.
Hey Morrisey, this is a family show ..
Hey Morrissey, this is a family show
anagrams as….
“I am a smothery sissy, if whoreishly.”
How apt.
How apt.
anagrammizes into….
Hot paw.
And “childish monomania” comes out as “a machismo hind loin”, which also seems somewhat apt.
And “childish monomania” comes out as “a machismo hind loin”…
Nope, doesn’t quite get there, buddy.
Not as easy as it looks, is it?
GIGO.
Am I bovvered?
Am I bovvered?
Judging by your desperate, moronic attempts to smear me, I would say you are extremely “bovvered”.
Are you calling my dad a pikie?
ANAGRAM TIME
No. 3: Te Reo Putake, activist blogger
Brave, goatlike, cutest ego-trip.
do ghostrider with/ and/ or Rogue Trooper; play nice, seeing as you omitted the rider from that ‘media awards’ evening, and I had washed my best Nirvana tee-shirt and everything.
ghostrider not wanted at party
anagrammizes to….
Witty, transparent hatred—good!
🙄
This is literally the thing I did and found funny when I was 12.
“Lanthanide: Christchurch’s finest”
becomes….
Sluttish arch-fiend enchants rich.
Oh, you got me. Good one.
you’ll just encourage him. He’s oblivious to sarcasm.
you’ll just encourage him. He’s oblivious to sarcasm.
Really? You think so?
If you don’t like our little sortie into anagram fun, why don’t you come out and say it, rather than posting sour little jibes that (as usual) fail to register?
because it didn’t work when lanth did it?
because it didn’t work when lanth did it?
So now you are the arbiter of what’s funny, are you?
I would trust your judgement on that about as much as I’d trust Gordon MacLauchlan’s or Tom Frewen’s.
Or Colin Craig’s.
No.
You asked me why I didn’t make a more direct criticism of your infantile (and probably computer-assisted) “anagram fun”. The answer is “because it didn’t work when lanth did it”.
You asked me why I didn’t make a more direct criticism of your infantile
“Infantile”? Well, fu—–, ah, yes, I guess you’re right.
(and probably computer-assisted) “anagram fun”.
Dammit! You got me! How the hell did you work out that it was computer-assisted?
Some people find more fun in actually developing the anagrams themselves, rather than pressing “enter” until something tickles their fancy.
“Dammit! You got me!”
Anagramatic translation: Me Is Sorry!
Morrissey
Do me. Do me! prism in Nelson, south island.
Morrissey
Do me. Do me! prism in Nelson, south island.
“Our good friend prism of Nelson—begging for it”
renders down into….
Boggles in front of do-gooder—run if simpering!
It’s good if we can keep our brains as active as when we were 12, with some mature input added. I think that brain maturity reaches its height at 25, so let’s keep trying to limit the decline I say.
Too late for some…
Thanks for the kind words, my friend. I guess you already know that “prism, a Standard regular” renders down into….
Retards snarl up diagram.
Morrisey Hey I’ve begged to get done over further down the thread, and here you are ahead of me. I’ll treasure it like pollies treasure cartoons.
LIARS OF OUR TIME
No. 19: Matthew Hooton
“It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They don’t!”
—-Matthew Hooton, Radio NZ National, Monday 10 June 2013
Mike Williams, supposed to be “from the Left”, sat meekly through that rant and then, meekly, went out of his way to agree with him.
See also….
No. 18: Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”
No. 17: Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”
No. 16: Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months”
No. 15: Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
No. 14: Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
No.13: Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27052013/#comment-638881
No. 12: U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
No. 11: Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”
No. 10: Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
No. 9: NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
No. 8: Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question”
No. 7: Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15052013/#comment-633295
No. 6: NZ Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”
No. 5: Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.” http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13052013/#comment-632594
No. 4: Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
No. 3: John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
No. 2: Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”
No. 1: Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”
Considering what comes out of Hooton’s mouth, he must eat through his arse.
Whoops, are children reading this?
Hooton is an ass, an utter ass. But the real problem here is Mike Williams. He is useless.
Why don’t they have someone principled and coherent to oppose Hooton? What has happened to Andrew Campbell? Or Laila Harre? Or Sue Bradford? Each of those people firmly put Hooton in his place; Williams on the other hand, like the timid Peter Harris and the dithering Josie Pagani, just concedes the floor to Hooton—almost every time.
Yep, it’s half an hour of squelchy sounds between Hoots and Williams. The host says “withdraw and apologise”, Wormtongue says “nope” and she lets it go. I appreciate that Ryan has principles, but she needs a backbone too.
Listening to Kim Hill has been a delight.
The great difference has been that after asking a question, Kim Hill actually listens for the response and then accommodates the answer into the discussion. Thus reminding people that interviews are meant to extract information. Something almost every other media journalist in the country seems to have forgotten.
Like Clockwork; no need for a watch.
That’s why he’s invited. The token left, like Newstalk ZB with Josie Pagani.
Fox TV did it with Hannity ( deranged right winger) and Colmes ( ineffectual left wing stooge)
Then they can pretend they are ‘fair and balanced’ (Fox) or see both sides of the story (Newstalk ZB).
Yes got to like Laila a lot.
and Rhinocrates Kathryn I think feels like an animal wrangler with scrapping dogs. She has to let them speak – that’s what they are there for.
ANAGRAM TIME
No. 4: Peter Dunne’s legover thwarted
Down-hearted splutter. Revenge!
How many days before the Obama-surveillance stories start to connect with the GCSB stories here?
While we wait, here’s a preview of a relevant movie about the growth of the surveillance state and its consequenes both for liberty and for the United States globally:
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/09/obamas_dirty_wars_and_a_soiled_presidency/
Enemy of the State.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film)
“How many days before the Obama-surveillance stories start to connect with the GCSB stories
here?”
Dunne already on April first, thanks to Dotcom and the Old Mole
http://redrave.blogspot.co.nz/2013/04/mega-dotcom-war.html
Good news. Someone was claiming that housing was unaffordable for ordinary people in NZ and that was wrong. Then there was a plan to change this with the finger being pointed at the lack of available land because it was being tied up by ‘unreasonable’ councils.
Then I found that these thoughtful comments were being made by NZ Initiative, a branch of the Business Roundtable and were authored by Luke Malpass and Michael Bassett. What a surprise. What they care about is that a good reliable money earner for them is being stymied and that will not do.
Also involved are – AuthorDr Bryce WilkinsonSatyajit DasDr Oliver HartwichLuke MalpassRoger PartridgeDr John LeeCatherine HarlandLukas SchroeterJoseph JuddRachael
http://nzinitiative.org.nz/About+Us/Membership.html
The recent comments carried forward those made by the Productivity Commission in April 2012.
http://www.productivity.govt.nz/about-us/our-team-0
http://www.productivity.govt.nz/inquiry-content/1509?stage=4
Containment policies such as ‘Smart Growth’ and Auckland’s Metropolitan Urban Limit (MUL) were also found by the Commission to have an adverse effect on housing affordability by limiting the availability of land for housing.
“Pressure on land prices needs to be reduced and the Commission has recommended that there be an immediate release of new land for residential development in high demand areas such as Auckland and Christchurch”.
Does their self-interest meet the housing needs of NZs? What other means are available of stopping housing being an investment vehicle for everyone who doesn’t want to or can’t find employment
within other parts of the economy?
We have as many housing speculators it seems, as cats have fleas, feeding off us and forcing up the prices of housing, which they can then rent at a loss while they wait for inflation of housing, not measured by the CPI to rise and make them a capital profit. And with very little maintenance to keep the places liveable.
Hey PRISM. Are the fella who has been accessing and filing the World Internet for the USA?
ianmac Who me? There is no such thing as prism – just a bunch of coloured lights.
Another True American Hero Emerges
Edward Snowden will now be targeted by the US/UK defamation machine
Question: Will Populuxe1, McFlock, and the other Standard regulars who so perversely reiterated the official attacks on earlier whistleblowers now be grinding their axes to deal to this guy?….
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video
Since you’re active on the board right now, it might be a good time to tell us, McFlock. What is it to be: defending the whistleblower?
Or the usual?
From the initial face of it, he appears to be a genuine whistle-blower who was motivated by a genuine ethical quandary rather than ego, and who restricted his information distribution to information relating to the cause of his moral dilemma. In full knowledge of the significant personal sacrifice he would make.
Oh, and he seems to be sensible enough to avoid a sexual assault complaint.
Perfectly willing to change my mind if the facts change, though.
Moderately intrigued by his choice of Hong Kong, but what the hey. I suppose he’s betting that a US intelligence operation on Chinese soil might be more trouble than his scalp is worth.
[edit] although it does put him in the position of being a bargaining chip if the Chinese want to spend some diplo-credits with the US in the next couple of decades, a la Ramirez in Yemen.
and you seemed in such a curmudgeonly mood such a short time ago.
…. motivated by a genuine ethical quandary rather than ego…
So it’s all about motivation, is it? You would have no doubt endorsed the German commentators who denounced Stauffenberg and his fellow bomb-plotters in 1944. Their “motivation” was suspect, too, seeing that they were all aristocrats—-and they were less than monkish in their sexual behaviour as well.
If only everybody was as perfect as you no doubt are.
Perfectly willing to change my mind if the facts change, though.
You’re like a commissar awaiting instructions from Moscow. And to think that YOU were upbraiding ME for apparently not getting your friend’s sarcasm.
McF is just another Tory who hasn’t come out of the closet yet. In the supposed interest of being “fair”, he’s making excuses for the right-wing authoritarians. You’ll find that he makes more and more excuses for them than he does for the real left and more and more criticisms of the left for being “unreasonable” and “not constructive”.
Godw … Nah, can’t be bothered.
‘cept this time you were right 🙂
‘cept this time you were right.
No he was not, you hapless clot.
Godw … Nah, can’t be bothered.
Godwin’s Law applies when the comparison is frivolous and can’t be argued convincingly. When I compare the behaviour of a “liberal” like McFlock to the behaviour of toadies in wartime Germany, I am not saying he was a Nazi, any more than I am saying he is a Soviet commissar by taking his lead from government spin doctors.
Of course, you can erroneously invoke Godwin’s Law if you want; it’s your credibility that’s being exposed when you refuse to engage.
sigh.
It wasn’t erroneous:
As you put it: When I compare the behaviour of a “liberal” like McFlock to the behaviour of toadies in wartime Germany[…]
You described your comment as a comparison with those chaps and thereby satisfying the requirements of Godwin’s law.
You’re funny.
You’re funny.
I know I am. I work hard at it.
However, I don’t think you’re particularly amused by—to employ one of John Banks’ favorite metaphors—having your wings torn off like this.
Now I’m left with a new appreciation for the communication gulf that exists between people.
The proof-readers at work would approve of your use of the em-dash, though. I can never be bothered.
Wow, rewriting Godwin’s Law to suit yourself, now there’s a surprise.
Godwin’s Law applies when someone makes an analogy comparing the person they are arguing with to N@zis etc, because they can no longer make a coherent argument. It doesn’t matter how sophisticated you think your argument is, if it’s hyperbole (which it was) then Godwin’s applies.
You might want to look up “sarcasm” in the dictionary.
Don’t use rhino’s, though, because all the words in that edition have identical meanings.
But yes, motivation does count.
For example: “defending Naz1s” = “bad motivation”, so “being an arsehole” rather than “being a whistleblower”.
Another example: “exposing an institutional abuse of liberties to the public who have a right to know” = “good motivation” = “whistleblower”.
are you a bespoke closet collaborateur Flockie? 😉
Apparently so.
I suspect, however, that my accusers’ world-views are the complete opposite to that attributed to Key.
Methinks a bored IT drone with a narcissisting personality dissorder wanting to play 007 more like
Is there any point to this little interchange (from 25 on)? Any?
Is there any point to this little interchange (from 25 on)? Any?
As your befuddled contribution at 25.1.2.2.1 shows all too plainly, you are clearly out of your depth.
Yes, there IS a point to “this little interchange”, and it is a very important one. If you do not appreciate that, then you really need to get off the discussion boards and do some serious, sustained READING.
Classic non-answer from Morrisey to a rhetorical question lol.
Classic non-answer from Morrisey to a rhetorical question lol.
“Non-answer”? Not only did I refute your lamely inadequate attempt to trivialize this discussion, but I trussed you and served you as an amuse bouche before we moved onto bigger, nastier fare.
Nah, all you did was take your inference that there is something wrong with me, and wrap it up in some pseudo-clever language. Nothing of substance. As usual.
Nah, all you did was take your inference that there is something wrong with me, and wrap it up in some pseudo-clever language. Nothing of substance. As usual.
I don’t like to say this, my friend, but someone needs to: you are out of your depth.
so the primary-sector exports (partic. sheep and beef) are gonna take a 1.3B hit in projected annual income due to the drought.
“Well we come with what was on our backs
Yeah, when the leaves had died and all turned black
Back when the wind was cold and blew them ’round
When we laid our blankets on the ground
Anything I want, some of us are different
It’s just something in our blood, there’s no need for explanations
We’re just dogs on the run,
Oh she would laugh, and light my cigarettes”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o06pAyXLJo
It Ain’t Nothing To Me.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8776490/Attempts-to-get-reporters-emails-will-be-fought
“Labour leader David Shearer wants Parliament’s privileges committee to probe the Peter Dunne saga as Fairfax Media says it won’t be releasing emails between its journalist and the MP.”
Yes I agree the emails should be made public, of course in the interest of fairness theres some other emails I’d like to see released…Phil Goffs recent escapdes could prove interesting etc etc
Seriously though whos advising Shearer? Someone who wants him to fail??
Failure is inevitable for Shearer unfortunately, or fortunately.
He may be dim and unable to convey his thoughts (if they exist), but he will never be the complete asshole that John Key is.
I don’t know about that fender. I disliked Shearer’s condemning attitudes to beneficiaries, his unattractive willingness to join the put-downers. Under the exterior is there a left winger? Or just another RWNJ in drag? He might be just a different door but with the same keyhole.
Good point but I believe Key has a deep-seated hatred of beneficiaries whereas Shearer was saying what some (Pagani?) adviser told him to say. That doesn’t excuse Shearer from his error, just highlights his inexperience and naivety.
+1 fender.
When he (only) had certain members of the ABC club advising him then it was inevitable he would put a few feet wrong. I think (I hope) he’s widened his advisory horizons now.
fender
Does that mean Shearer is just a hand puppet or ventriloquist’s dummy? Not a nice mental picture of someone’s hand up his back bumps.
Yeah it seems that way, the abc team picked a malleable rookie they could make dance to their tune, missteps and all!
Bad pictures have been more than mental ones!
Anyone remember the “Citizens for Rowling” campaign. It was initiated by a David Exel? He was, in fact, a rejected National Party candidate but he had a dislike for Muldoon and set up the aforementioned campaign. Went to hear him speak at a public meeting in Takapuna and he spouted all the things that a pseudo left winger would say. It was comical really. Shame though because he had a lot of good liberal minds signed up. Mmmm, now am I experiencing a form of deja-vu
If you haven’t looked at google today – I suggest you take a shifty at the great program they’ve done displaying Maurice Sendak’s art and characters. Remember it’s only on for the day.
thanks prism, that was fun,
here is a video of it for the fans, with not the worst soundtrack ever
freedom
Where was that video?
There are heaps of copies on youtube. Try this one (although I prefer to watch it on google.com). Beautiful animation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMtdVET9eAw
Thanks weka
But I have to find out what Adobe Flash is and get it into my computer and my head. Till then I can’t see a lot of things on youtube.
On googlecom where to go – images? I haven’t used that site.
so much for Ryall and “ED waiting times”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10889483
further increases in consumption; takeaways; credit cards at twice the rate of debit cards.sigh
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10889568
Employers wincing out on Kiwisaver contributions
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10889444
“Oh Good Morning Mr Tyler, going down?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10889461
Quote of the Day from Pooter George:
“If Peters can’t put up any evidence one must assume he has been lying about having it.”
What he might have said is “If Dunne can’t put up any evidence of his innocence one must assume he has been lying about having it.” But he didn’t. Funny that.
I always thought PG was first to bed so he could be first up to post on Open mike, but it looks like he will be the last to leave Dunnes’ party.
Last to leave? If UF do manage to get 500 paid up members, I’m picking a fair percentage of the names will be along the lines of Pete R. George, George Peters, PG Tips etc., so you may be right.
fender 😀
oooh, NATO under attack near Kabul airport
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/10/kabul-airport-under-attack
oooh, Oil in the River Coca
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22836975
heading towards the Brazilian Amazon.
The Middle East; Inter-Sunni, Sunni-Shia and “political entrepreneurs”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/middle-east-full-blown-religious-war
(another US foreign policy balls-up).
DROUGHT: The most devastating disasters; all over the world in increasing frequency and location from now on.
http://reliefweb.int/report/world/droughts-%E2%80%98most-devastating%E2%80%99-disasters-set-increase-warn-climate-change-experts
“every 1 degree rise in temp = 20-fold increase in conflicts”.
Water and land conservation essential, oh, that’s right, NZ has based it’s economic future in dairying which is land and water intensive. Yep.
I often wonder if cantabs, for example, should be growing olives and dates rather than cows. That’s if the standard grain crops don’t rock their world, of course.
Lets model ourselves on Greece.
Nope.
But let’s learn from their successes, as well as their mistakes. Producing food is good, especially in times of food shortage. But running the land down and filling out waterways with shit is stupid. Can we do the first without doing the second or third?
How would you get on there. Do they have gorillas, or is it guerillas.
they already grow a lot of cereal there.
RNZ just advises that the Morehu chap (RW having orgasms over it on WOBH) was Tazered twice before being shot twice. deep sigh.
“I often wonder if cantabs, for example, should be growing olives and dates rather than cows.”
Of course the most productive use of land (measured by how many families the land sustains) is horticultural.
New Zealand has moved from a hunter-gatherer approach (still seen today in various ancient fed farmer cultures) to an animals which eat the regrowth approach, and thence now slowly to this most productive form. There is no doubt that the water which has been stolen to wet the dry land for moo cows will instead quench plants of most exquisite return and flavour.
This is as it has always been.
yep. Polycultures (with animals integrated into the system) are the most shock proof ways of growing food. That’s a different kete of fish than making money of course. Time to decide what you want NZ.
And NZ given 35 year concessions on irrigation which I think renewable. And the rights saleable.
Without water, Revolution
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/opinion/sunday/friedman-without-water-revolution.html
Eurozone debt-revenue ratios
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jun/09/eurozone-crisis-debt-income-ratios
Three countries at 300%
Hits Italian manufacturing
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/europe-crisis-hits-italy-manufacturing/40362/
Neo-liberalism has created a financial elite holding governments to ransom
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/08/neoliberalism-financial-elite-governments-ransom
Markets very reliant on QE
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/premium/singapore-markets/others/markets-very-reliant-quantitative-easing-20130610
“Holed up in Hong Kong”
The project to criminalize whistle-blowing and dissent
Radio NZ National, Checkpoint, Monday 10 June 2013, 5:20 p.m.
Just heard Susie Ferguson parrot the line that Edward Snowden is “holed up” in Hong Kong. She was, perhaps unwittingly, referring to yet another dissenter as though he’s some desperado who pulled a bank heist.
It’s started. Expect sexual allegations in the next week, and a “request” for extradition.
Expect also some diligent reiteration in this normally excellent forum of whatever Obama’s drones say.
By the usual parrots.
UPDATE:
Suzy Ferguson has just repeated the “holed up” meme on the 5:30 news.
He’s going to have taken money from his employer, I predict revelations of false expense claims and other employment irregularities
Also I feel sorry for the Missus he left behind, she’s she’ll be in shit street solitary, they’ll be trawling all through her + family’s background
FURTHER UPDATE:
On the 8 p.m. news, Catriona McLeod has just repeated the meme: “Edward Snowden is holed up in Hong Kong.”
Damn – did they not rewrite the RNZ news script despite your helpful advice?
Damn – did they not rewrite the RNZ news script despite your helpful advice?
Golly, you’re onto it! I DID send them a hurry-up at 5:30 pm. Sound intuition there, my friend. I haven’t checked my email yet; I’ll let you know if and what they replied.
8:14 pm
Just checked my email. You’re right, she treated it with contempt. Not even a snarky one-liner, as Jim Mora or Michael Laws or Leighton Smith will at least bother to do.
Nothing. I am so lonely now. Ignored. Marginalized.
Now what’s on down the tavern tonight?
Was that sarcasm? Because you do sometimes apparently send RNZ emails that you republish here.
Was that sarcasm?
No. I don’t do sarcasm. I leave that to lower forms of life, like our friends Populuxe1, weka and Te Reo Putake.
Because you do sometimes apparently send RNZ emails that you republish here.
I do, and there’s nothing “apparent” about them; they are genuine. I’ll have another look to see if they’ve replied, then I’ll publish my letter (probably unanswered, I will bet) on today’s Open Mike (11 June).
I think you are making a mistake grouping Te Reo Putake and Weka with Pompouslux1 Mr. Breen.
Yep I agree with fender – think again about this line of attack/defence Morrissey it does you no credit.
fender: I think you are making a mistake grouping Te Reo Putake and Weka with Pompouslux1 Mr. Breen.
Morrissey: Yeah, you’re right. I thought as I posted it off I was being a bit harsh on those two scallywags.
marty mars Yep I agree with fender – think again about this line of attack/defence Morrissey it does you no credit.
Morrissey: You’re right, marty, you’re right.
MORRISSEY walks over to TE REO PUTAKE and WEKA, hugs them.
Iain (M) Banks is dead.
Fuck.
“Iain (M) Banks is dead.
Fuck.”
Yeah agree with that.
Double fuck :'(
Double fuck :’(
Aha! He actually fancies himself as Julian Assange.
All this crap over the last year is some Freudian denial thing going on.
Brit’s Haig? commented that their spying activity is not wide, enveloping and random it’s – ‘organised, targeted, appropriate’ and something else that has slipped my mind. Do we feel that the Brit govt is a bastion of freedom and respect for all citizens? Do we think that NZ is?
likely been some “reciprocal spying” going on amongst Echelon partners”. -Paul Brislen.
Key- Nah! (to paraphrase briefly).
and Tom Sharpe.
anyway, the NZ Super Fund has been investing (only 2M) in five companies manufacturing nuclear weapons and / or their support platforms.
UK Police to guard selected Islamic sites, schools, mosques, etc around Greater London.
Oh well.
Parata apparently gave the go ahead to look at a ‘public-private partnership‘ for the Aranui ‘super school’. That was why she pushed back the date of closure, to give a PPP a chance.
This is all so in keeping …