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Open Mike 10/11/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 10th, 2017 - 167 comments
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167 comments on “Open Mike 10/11/2017 ”

  1. Andre 1

    The latest iteration of home biogas generators. Turn that energy in your waste into gas for cooking and heating. It also produces liquid fertilizer, so swapping your compost heap for this gas generator won’t deprive your garden of nutrients.


    • Carolyn_Nth 1.1

      Good line of development. Look forward to them producing one small enough to fit in the small kitchen or outside walkway of a small flat that is not on the ground floor.

    • xanthe 1.2

      thats cool !

    • ianmac 1.3

      Well spotted Andre. Could be great for “off-the -grid” unit.
      Wonder if it could have much larger implications? Think that gaseous smell at rubbish dumps or transfer stations. Wasn’t there a plan to harness rubbish dumps somewhere in NZ?

      • Andre 1.3.1

        There’s already industrial scale capture and use of biogas, and has been for quite a while. Separating organic waste out of other rubbish, like Auckland has planned for very soon, opens another opportunity for that.


        Some farms are getting into it. It’s one argument for getting cows off paddocks and into shelters where more of their effluent can be captured and better managed. Germans have led the way, but it’s catching on here.


        But it’s always bothered me that going off-grid usually means some kind of bottled gas was still needed. So if someone’s cost-effectively mass producing something for homeowners to replace that with biogas, all the better for going completely off-grid.

        • Gristle

          Don’t hold your breath with biogas from cow effluent. Cows are really good at extracting energy from grass so their effluent isn’t that good in creating methane when compared to pigs or chickens or us.

          Richest material for biogas is the carcasses left from meat works. There are thousands of tonnes per month of this type of waste that will be trucked off to land fills from each factory. That is where I would locate a biogas and electricity generation unit.

          (The argument for biogas is that burning methane and releasing carbon dioxide is better than releasing methane. Methane is 80 times more effective as a greenhouse gas than CO2.)

    • eco Maori/kiwi 1.4

      One can make his own biodigester I’v seen them on the internet one of my favorite subjects they are not that hard to make people around the world who have to be industrious are using home made biodigester .
      And the problem with cows housed in barns is that it raises production cost why the cost of servicing a extra 1 to 5 million and low production cost is the main advantage we have over the rest of the world good Dairy NZ or some outfit has tried it and the
      system was not cost effective Like you said the barn cows that provide all of there crap for the system were cost effective may be some positive or negative incentive could get this technology going good post Andre many thanks Ka pai .

  2. Wyndham 2

    Anyone wanting to know the meaning of the terms ‘vindictive, mean, vicious, gratuitously insulting’, need look no further than the tirade of abuse from the MP for Nelson, Nick Smith in his parliamentary speech yesterday. What a vile person and what a sad example of what NZ can expect from National over the next three years.

    I’m sure someone else will help with a link.

    • Nick 2.1

      You summed it up just by saying nick smith.

    • Grey Area 2.2

      Just watched it and you nailed it. Vile.

    • Bearded Git 2.3

      @Wyndham +100 Agreed; I made the mistake of missing him off my list of nasty and duplicitous Nats in a post a couple of days ago.

      But what a stupid thing to do-to attack the Speaker.

      And once again we have an opposition MP listing all National’s achievements (and lying about them of course) as though they are still in power or still in an election campaign. Time to move on Nats.

    • tc 2.4

      Another example of how owned the MSM are. Smith f’d up again and again during the 9 years of nact plunder.

      He’s a sad example of an MP with anger management issues and an inability to recall his many lies so he’d provide a virtually endless supply of material but gets left alone.

    • Cinny 2.5

      Wyndham, is it this speech here please?

      smith is delirious, bitter that we live under MPP, how many minutes does he waste complaining about the election outcome lmfao. Running everyone down flat out, livid over losing his ministerial roles.

      This will be the his last term as an MP, if he lasts that long.

      Why does he saying ‘Mr Speaker’ when tolley is in the chair?

      • McFlock 2.5.1

        Ah, the joyous outrage of someone who has never figured out the difference between “friend” and “lickspittle”.

        Oh, and in 1981 the nats had less votes than Labour and still formed the government, so his bitching about “votes and seats” is bullshit. We’re now up to 2/52 exceptions.

      • Wyndham 2.5.2

        That’s it Cinny.
        What an extraordinary tirade from a bitter,unhappy man.
        N.Z. is blessed in not having this clown still as a minister.

  3. eco maori 3

    Well I’v been moaning my ass off to my children and moko’s and my wife that I could not renumber the last time my wife cooked for me LOL my wife did not even engage the topic . And the other nite I said to her your are saying get stuffed I’v cooked for you and our children for the last 30 od years and we had a laugh she replied you got it LOL.
    So my cooking skills have improved vastly over the last six months from thee one pot wonder/ boil up to being good at making a jus gravy and the easy one I found was mushrooms the easiest to make and always taste good. I got the good part of the deal because I only have to cook for two and not ten like she had to cook for most times .
    I have to change one of my calls and that is about New Zealand having a loud voice that
    Trump had heard and this was why he was nice to OUR prime minister .
    The voice that he heard is one that is much closer to him and that’s his wife she has got him to calm down and see reality. And I still say to you lady’s that are behind these powerful men Kick there ass and make them see reality and see that climate change is real and we need America to take the lead to fight climate and save mother earth.
    You what my wish was if I could go 40 years into OUR future well I could also see that OUR People all over the World were Honouring Donald Trump because he changed his mind on climate change and the WHOLE World fought climate change and equality together and this was why OUR environment was pristine.
    Because the other option is Apocalypse disaster. P.S I can see when people are composed all of the time an then the Eco Maori effect. Kia Kaha

    • One Two 4.1

      Greater satisfaction…

      The faux drama presented by reuters..ooh ooh, ‘it’s down to the wire’…’looking good for NZ’..like a footy match..

      Or the ‘thrills’ of posting a link on a blog you come to only as an agitator?

      The analysis of ‘benefits’ to Nz came out at 0 in real terms, and did not factor in possibility of loss of sovereignty through the agreement..

      So in what basis is it ‘looking good for NZ’ other than through the lens of a shit stirrer…

    • savenz 4.2

      Bad news they look like they are going to sign it, against public opinion.

      • BM 4.2.1

        You’ll still vote Labour though, convince yourself they had no choice and it was the evil Nats who gave Ardern a hospital pass.

      • James 4.2.2

        Now why would they do that? Same corporate backers as national? Or perhaps it’s actually good for nz.

        All the claims from labour about how bad it was going to be – then they sign it.

        It’s comical.

        • Robert Guyton

          James. Almost all of the comments you have made since National lost the election to the Coalition of Winners, has you portraying yourself as laughing and giggling at the hilarious comical behaviours you see unfolding before you.
          Are you alright?
          Is there a leaking NO2 cylinder nearby to where you perch?
          Can we help?
          Is Valium and option you’d consider?
          I fear you will wear yourself out with all this mirth you are experiencing.
          There’ll be nothing left of you, ‘cept a tinny echo of a giggle, hanging in cyber-space!
          James. Friend. Get a grip.

          • BM

            Labours going to sign the TPPA and they were always going to! what do you think of that?

            Do you feel betrayed Robert?

            • Puckish Rogue

              for some reason the line “It was bright cold day in April” suddenly springs to mind 🙂

            • Robert Guyton

              Do I accept your framing of the issue, BM?
              We shall see what eventuates. You’re awfully cocky, despite being on the wrong side of Government. I suppose all you have now is James-like crowing to warm your disappointed cockles.

              • BM

                I’m not part of government Robert.

                Never was and probably never will be.

                • Robert Guyton

                  You’re a loner, BM? A renegade?
                  Are you Pee wee Herman?

                  • BM

                    Nah, just haven’t got a lot of time for this us vs them wankery you old guys seem to indulge in.

                    Actually, I’m one day hoping, once you oldies have fucked off and died we may actually get a bit of consensus and move past this tribal, team bullshit.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Its not so bad being on the wrong side of government if the current government is still supporting what National wanted

            • cleangreen

              BM = Bloody Mindless.

          • The decrypter

            RG, james is my friend also. –james, james hold the ladder steady I’m a comin down to your are–are are–ms—

          • james

            I wouldn’t be laughing so much if the new government didnt give so much material to laugh at.

            From the shambles of not being able to count.

            Then Jacinda being called out as a liar by the media (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11941784 and on Pundit – cant find the link at the moment).

            To sucking in people like yourself about the TPP – then (it looks like) signing it anyways.

            Yes – Im laughing .

            • The decrypter

              james,I don’t like it when you are in a negative mood.

              • james

                Not negative – Im all for the TPP.

                Im happy with how this looks like it is going.

                • The decrypter

                  So if we sign up to it will you be a happy james for many years to come?-or still vindictive,–sort of like a troll, on day to day political matters ?–again, a sort of misery guts.

                • cleangreen

                  Sellout James are you not?

                  What will you say when we loose our NZ Government control through ISDS?

                  When national get back into power during then next decade, the ISDS will still have another 20yrs to run, and your government will also be powerless to control government affairs then.

                  But you won’t care, as you will have bought your own beach house in Hawaaii alongside John key wont you?

                  • srylands

                    Why do you want to protect governments from being sued by companies?

                  • james

                    Using your logic – would that not make Jacinda and the Labour government the sellouts?

                    Im not the one signing it – Im just happy if they do.

            • marty mars

              Very forced insincere laughing James – it does you no credit to act like your hero billshitter.

              • The decrypter

                I think james has learned the error of his ways by now,

                • james


                  • James has NOT learned the error of his ways. James is naughty. Naughty James. Your birthday celebrations will now no longer have a bouncy castle – yes that’s right you heard me – NO you have blown it and now you and your friends will just have to make your own fun.

            • Robert Guyton

              These then, are the best days of your life, James: in Opposition, scrambling for giggles wherever you can scrape them up. According to James Shaw, there’s a good chance you’ll be giggling ( giggle, giggle ) for the next 18 years!

          • Incognito


        • Draco T Bastard

          Same corporate backers and ideology as National. It’s actually bad for NZ as all such agreements are.

  4. eco maori 5

    My granddaughter is a soccer Queen she scores 4 to 5 goals a game and shows up all the boys LOL she 7 years old so proud.
    I would like some of my grandsons to play soccer but I don’t think they are going to have body’s built for soccer some how.
    Well I say legislate to even up the playing field for Ladys in management as OUR society is bias against them. In my view we need more ladys in management NOW we stereotype Ladys as weak emotional E.C,T so for a lady breaking the barriers into management is a hard task and we should give them all the help they need so they fix up the wrongs in OUR society you all ready no that I say lady’s are more intelligent and humane than man and this is a fact. Kia Kaha

    • Incognito 6.1

      Nick Smith would make an excellent trolling RWNJ; I believe KB is his natural habitat. It explains why he never got booted out of the National government; he’s one of them.

    • Psych nurse 6.2

      Nick Smith appears to have forgotten about the countless elections where Labour secured by far the larger vote but was never the Government. Isn’t this fact the reason we adopted MMP.

      • ianmac 6.2.1

        Just thinking about that Psych. In recent times Labour had more popular votes than National but the FPP gave National more electorate seats so won. And doesn’t the current Government have a 3 seat majority?
        We won Nick. You lost! Eat that!

      • tracey 6.2.2

        Forgetting sits just behind lying as Nat MPs default settings

  5. Puckish Rogue 7

    Can’t believe i’m going to say this but…Trevor Mallard seems to have made a good start to being speaker and is bringing some good ideas


    Looks like he might be erring towards the Lockwood Smith school of how to be the speaker of the house

  6. Andre 8

    Repugs finally get honest and basically admit it’s a straight quid pro quo. Legislate tax cuts for the wealthiest in return for campaign donations, or else. Everyone else can get screwed if that’s what’s needed to make the tax cuts happen.


    • Anne 9.1

      You beat me to it Carolyn_nth.

      What an arrogant, arsehole of a man. No coincidence his target is a woman.


      Edit: Oops… same link. We’ll leave it there so people know what its about.

      • marty mars 9.1.1

        When polishing a turd hold Gareth with 2 fingers as the polish is applied – I use a coconut oil mixed with lemon to really get Gareth clean. Brushes can get a real shine on Gareth and you’ll receive lots of compliments when noticed such as,’ gee that turd Gareth is really shiney’ or ‘look you can see your reflection in this Gareth wow that is a mirror finish how did Gareth get so shiney’.

        Extra – why do we have to see the radio interviewers – I want to hear Kim hill – so distracting trying to watch and listen I find myself going ‘what is she doing with her hands’ and so on

        • Anne

          I do hope you washed your hands thoroughly afterwards mm.

        • Psych nurse

          It would appear that Kim may have a neurological condition, I look forward to the day when any form of disability does not disqualify any individual from the visual media.

          • marty mars

            Big call that one – personally when i talk/present my arms fly all over the place in a very european way ive been told.

            My point was the multimedia aspect – for me just listening is enjoyable.

            Apologies if my initial comment was offensive or derogatory.

            • ianmac

              Ironic that Brilliant Kim is fidgety and at the opposite end is Nasty Hoskings who fidgets and twitches as well.

              • veutoviper

                She always has been fidgety with hands flying, but think she prefers non-visual radio anyway.
                She also used to sneak her dog into the studio on Saturdays; don’t know if she still does, but presumably cannot do so on Morning Report these days.

                But yay – next week it is Kim Hill and John Campbell on Morning Report.

                JC and Guyon E are swapping places for the week, with GE doing Checkpoint.

          • greywarshark

            I suppose we all have a neurological condition. What is Kim’s?

      • OnceWasTim 9.1.2

        I reckon he’s just had the longest ever mid-life crisis known to man – and it’s still in progress.
        Last night, my son and I were wondering what we should give him for Christmas. I suggested a Harley Davidson. My son said no – definitely a pussy

    • mauī 9.2

      Gareth should have known he was up against a formidable political foe in Paddles. Those opposable paws were a giveaway.

      Political hero of the year goes to Paddles, managed to take down TOP.

      • marty mars 9.2.1

        Sadly paddles didn’t do it – it was imo 100% Gareth and his attitudes to women, his candidates, and those who ask for explanations or query his lordship in any way. The shocker is he now makes fucken Bob Jones seem reasonable. Hell even Colin Craig appears to read the mood better than Gareth. All the top ideas in the world mean nothing without bringing people along.

        • tracey

          Funny you mention Bob Jones cos that is who Morgan is reminding me of. Lots of opinion, doesnt listen and wants equality for women once they prove they deserve it.

          • KJT

            A prime example of why the rich should not be able to buy political parties.

            Now we just have to stop them from buying Labour again. National is already a lost cause.

          • Carolyn_Nth

            For someone who says he’s neither left nor right wing, his values and MO are definitely ones I would associate with right wing politics.

            • tracey

              He certainly operates according to patriarchal “rules”. Business people have run their own businesses. They are de facto leaders by dint of their entrepreneurial skills or success not cos of any particular leadership skills. They, most being private, do not have to consult with others and usually have the final say in decision-making. these are NOT skills suited to being a good (in the sense good for NZers) politician or political leader. I am NOT saying Morgan is like Trump, but the “skills” Trump had as a showman on tv and businessman are SO different to being President, and it shows.

  7. eco maori 10

    I give credit when I see it is due . I was thinking that john key got the government to invest 1 billion in OUR ultra fast broadband and that was onto it investment .
    But I Analyzed the whole picture and came to the conclusion that key had a vested interest in OUR broadband roll out and that is the actual far right like to use the internet to influence / subliminal influence OUR people to think that there big business
    and there far right bullshit views are good for OUR Worlds society 1 peter thiel 2 there false claims that they are collecting social data to target the needy 3 Xerox moving out of our stockmarket who is part of that company . There are many other examples of them trying to control us and OUR views.
    We dodged the bullet this time but we have to be aware of what is actually going on in OUR society.
    And the timing of that release of that Washington Post article to damage OUR new coalition image and try and make them look like a far right political government to make it harder for Jacinda and Winston to get good trade with the rest of OUR trading partners . (Thats right out of john keys hand book) The question I would be asking ben mack is who payed you. I just say that the barriers against ladys entering management should be removed but we still need the right person for the job or it will be a big F up. I miss my days of fishing seeing a line of dolphins as far as the can see and all the other amazing wild life and the roll of the boat. Kia Kaha

    • ianmac 10.1

      “And the timing of that release of that Washington Post article to damage OUR new coalition image…”
      What was that about eco?

  8. cleangreen 11

    Yes Puckish Rogue,
    I agree Trevor mallard is bringing a sane non-combatant style that the last speaker David Carter could not or would not bring this new civility to the house.

    Possibly we will see a more caring balanced fair even handed approach to parliament as the last parliament was simply ugly with many fights that were to ugly to watcvh and i would turn the channel off.

    We want to see all politicians work together to help restore all NZders lifestyle, health and wellbeing back to the way it was before 2008, with major improvements in rail services and other infrustructure improvements planned with ‘local public community input’ as this ‘active community input’ was sadly missing in the last nine years.

    The last Government placed walls around public consultation and did not provide public to serve any influence in what central Government was secretly planning in their regions.

    Perhaps trevor could steer this change also as Speaker of the house now, since jacinda has made it a solid change that “all NZders will have a voice and be heard”.

    • Puckish Rogue 11.1

      Perhaps, if Trevors run ends as it begun, he and Lockwood Smith could come up with some guidelines for Speakers as I think we can agree that a neutral speaker is best for parliament

      • tracey 11.1.1

        Did you miss tolley taming that lil boy Jamie Lee Ross?

      • tracey 11.1.2

        the guidelines exist. I suspect it is about character more than the guidelines per se. A Speaker prepared to follow the guidelines as opposed to one who is advancing his/her parties cause and finds ways to justify it through contortion of the Speaker rules

  9. Ed1 12

    The grief of some National supporters is strong – they have been betrayed by Winston Peters who rode roughshod over his NZ First party to go with huge bribes from from Labour , and by the Green Party whose policies are close to National’s. As the winning party they believe that it is wrong that they are not in government. Leaving emotion aside, I thought there had been a report that National had offered the NZ First party more than National in terms of cabinet positions – is that the case?

    • mpledger 12.1

      It doesn’t matter anymore. The deal has been done. National is in opposition.

    • Anne 12.2

      Yes it was the case. They offered an extra full cabinet position.

      You fail to mention Ed1 that National betrayed Winston Peters by releasing information about his super over-payments – a Winz mistake of which he had no prior knowledge. It was an act designed to destroy Peters and NZ First and it nearly succeeded.

      Betrayals tend to beget betrayals, although in this case I am certain NZ First chose Labour because Labour’s policies are more compatible with their own policies.

      • Ed1 12.2.1

        Thanks, does anyone have a link to the article that confirms this? Its nice to counter lies with verifiable (or at lest supportable) facts.

        • Anne

          The Peters super debacle was all widely reported at the time Ed1. You could google something like ‘Winston Peters/super payment’ and you should get all the MSM articles.

          If you’re referring to the extra cabinet post offered by National then that was also widely reported in the media. That of course was only a matter of 3 to 4 weeks ago.

          • Ed1

            Thanks. Just what I needed. By coincidence, since writing my post the claim that Labour offered more “baubles” was read on radio today – as part of reading a diatribe by a disappointed National supporter – but without the clarification that this part was just as wrong as the rest of the message. I suspect it is a deliberate lie being repeated by National to try and cause trouble for the government, as well as to convince their supporters that there may have been reasons other than policies and their own performance that led to them not being in government.

    • ianmac 12.3

      Ed1 There was a report that the National Party leadership instructed Negotiators to not offer NZF much. Perhaps in the belief that should NZF go with Labour-Green, it would all collapse and they would ride in triumphant. Fat chance.

      • tracey 12.3.1

        ianmac I think the Nats swallowed their own years of spin about Peters and truly believed he just wanted baubles. I think they thought they could get what they wanted cos they have been getting it for 9 years

  10. Anne 14

    Chris Trotter is on a roll at the moment:


    IT WAS A MISTAKE: a serious mistake; a mistake born out of Labour’s naïve readiness to trust the National Opposition…..

    Lets hope it is a mistake that will never be repeated.

    • Ad 14.1

      If that 108 tilts majorities on Select Committees, it will matter. Esp with Zero Carbon bill.

      Otherwise just a good reminder to Chippie to learn to count.

      • Johnr 14.1.1

        If I was labour I’d be very tempted to go to national and say, “that after due consideration we have decided to rescind our 108 seat offer”. But of tit for tat seems to be in order.

        • Hooch

          That’s precisely what they should do. “You said you’d vote for mallard and you didn’t, we said we’d increase the SC numbers but now we’re not.” Burn.

    • Bearded Git 14.2

      I don’t think it is a mistake to trust someone’s word. The media should have been slamming Bridges/National for lying and reneging.

      The headline should have been “National turns first day into Farce”.

      But oh no, Labour gets the blame-the MSM will do anything to destroy the stardust..

      • Anne 14.2.1

        In normal instances I would agree with you but this is the National Party and history has constantly reminded they can’t be trusted.

        As for the media. Too many of them are there only to produce sensational headlines and sound bites. Ethics and facts mean nothing to most of them.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 14.2.2

        Slamming National for lying would be like criticising fish for swimming.

        Lying is National’s brand, and even in opposition they remain intent on building brand recognition.

        It’s bizarre – Nat politicians seem unaware that lying is not a good look. And the more they seek to advance their causes by lying, the better it will be for the Labour-led Government and NZ.

  11. savenz 15

    A petition from Gordon Brown , ex UK PM to shut down tax havens…

    “To President Mauricio Macri and all leaders of the G20:

    The level of global inequality is appalling — 8 people own as much wealth as half the planet.

    And the gap is growing, thanks in part to the shadowy world of tax havens which lets trillions be siphoned offshore from our economies. Right now, the rich get richer, and the rest of us pay.

    Eight years ago the G20 agreed it would shut down these practices. It’s time to deliver. We call on you to act immediately to end tax havens and ensure that those that run and exploit them are held to account.

    Nobody should be able to evade their duty to pay tax for the public good. It is your responsibility to make that so. As citizens from around the world, we demand action. ”

    To sign


  12. Andre 16

    The chances of Democrats pulling off the most gobsmacking electoral upset ever just got a lot higher (though realistically still pretty low). Alabama’s election for Session’s replacement happens on 12th December. The Republican candidate, Roy Moore (who’s vile enough he was already a massive headache for the GOP), has been accused of sexual misconduct with underage teenagers. The accusations are credible enough that congressional Repugs are calling for him to drop out of the race, even though it’s too late to put a replacement on the ballot.


    • joe90 16.1

      Dude left out the immaculate conception part of the fairy tale.

      “There is nothing to see here,” Alabama State Auditor Jim Ziegler told the Washington Examiner. “The allegations are that a man in his early 30s dated teenage girls. Even the Washington Post report says that he never had sexual intercourse with any of the girls and never attempted sexual intercourse.”


      “He’s clean as a hound’s tooth,” Ziegler claimed, before relying on Scripture to defend Moore.

      “Take the Bible. Zachariah and Elizabeth for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Ziegler said choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”


  13. The Chairman 17

    @ weka

    “Yes, $53/wk is the 20% increase for all benefits that was in the GP policy.”

    Yes. But with the Greens failing to deliver on any core benefit increase coupled with them now working with Labour (hence, less inclined to rock the boat) where is the political pressure now going to come from?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • tracey 17.1

      It would be great if that pressure came from Labour Party members, and voters.

      • Karen 17.1.1

        I did a lot of work for the local Labour Party candidate this election, but I gave my party vote to the Green Party mainly because I knew they would push Labour on welfare reform. I will be lobbying Labour at every opportunity to reform WINZ and increase benefits.

        • tracey

          Thanks Karen. I know a lot of Labour voters care about this stuff. I worry that some are too scared of losing power to do anything really meaningful when they have it.

        • The Chairman

          Good on you, Karen.

      • The Chairman 17.1.2

        Yes it would, Tracey.

        I’d also like to see the Greens apply more pressure and was having this discussion with weka the other day.

        The Missing Noun.

  14. Karen 18

    I watched Tamati Coffey’s maiden speech and thought that was pretty special but have just watched Kiritapu Allan’s and it has brought me to tears.

    There’s a future leader.

  15. timeforacupoftea 19

    now 6:45 PM
    Five hours later and nobody gives a toss about the about the Greens portfolio list !

    Maybe Winston has an effect.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  16. Marcus West 20

    I might be off asking this, but it does confuse me sometimes why we decry Trump for being a right wing extremist and wanting to ban immigration, yet here we wave the anti immigration flag as though it’s one of the core principles of the left. Where did we go wrong? We end up sounding more like the right every day

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [we tend not to talk politics in Weekend Social. Open Mike is a good place to start general debates. – weka]

    • marty mars 20.1

      The full range of positions on immigration from the left on here. The extreme edges of no or full uncontrolled immigration don’t seem to have representatives. Tough debate usually.

    • Andre 20.2

      I’m one of those that support a more selective immigration policy here in NZ, as well as being utterly disgusted with the orange dotard.

      The first big difference of opinion is how to treat immigrants that have already arrived. Adolf Twitler wants to make life as miserable as possible for them before he catches and deports them (except the smokin’ hot white ones). In contrast, I want to ensure immigrants that do come get the best welcome feasible and get assisted to find their place in society. I’m appalled by the way immigrants are being brought in under circumstances that make them vulnerable, and are then exploited by unscrupulous employers (who are, sadly, often recent immigrants too). Other lefty critics here of the previous govt’s immigration policies appear to feel the same.

      Another big difference is the motivation for reducing immigration. The Fanta Fascist is only interested in stirring the vilest xenophobic fears of his supporters; he’s all for importing immigrants for his businesses to exploit. I’m concerned that excessively high levels of immigration are excessively stressing our infrastructural capacity to absorb them in a way that makes them welcome. And those infrastructure stresses are spilling over into social stresses such as high housing costs, which disproportionately harm the most vulnerable members of our society.

      There’s lots more where that came from, but it’ll do for a start.

  17. The Chairman 21

    ‘It’s not New Zealand holding up the consensus’ – Parker

    Mr Parker would not name the country responsible, but denied it was either New Zealand or Canada.

    “It’s not New Zealand holding up the consensus. We reached agreement.”


    And there you have it, New Zealand has reached agreement on the TPP.

    Parker said Labour had got “some of what we wanted”

  18. The Chairman 22

    Will signing the TPP cost Labour the next election or will all be forgiven by then?

    • Robert Guyton 22.1

      Awww! You’re so caring , Chair!
      (You don’t care. You’re prising apart whenever you can. In fact, you never miss an opportunity to caringly create doubt and discord. You think you are clever. I think you stick out like the proverbial).

      • The Chairman 22.1.1

        Nothing caring in that post, Robert. It was merely a question.

        Moreover, I don’t create the opportunities that can cause discord, Robert. But I do ask questions, express my opinion and sometimes offer alternative solutions from time to time.

        • Robert Guyton

          How’s you speculation looking now, Chair? Ought we to worry still about your “what ifs”?

          • The Chairman

            There was no speculation, Robert. I just highlighted the facts reported and asked a question.

            If you meant what do I expect will happen to the TPP? I suspect they will regroup and try again.

            The main concern is, Labour were prepared to sign us up to it.

            Which, would have created the “discord” and “prising apart” you seem to be concerned about.

            Therefore, can we expect to see you have a go at them?

            • Robert Guyton

              “Will signing the TPP cost Labour the next election or will all be forgiven by then?”

              You are speculating that:
              * the TPP will be signed
              * signing it will cost Labour the next election
              * anger at Labour for signing it will eventuate
              * that anger might not disappear before the next election
              and you wrapped those speculations in a question format in order to disguise you intention, which was and is to insert barbs into the confidence of Labour/Green/NZ1 readers here.
              That’s what I reckon.

              • The Chairman


                I’m asking if they sign will it cost them the next election? Which, considering they reached an agreement, looks likely when and if negotiations restart.

                There is anger with Labour now for even considering signing it, let alone them reaching an agreement. I know a number that didn’t vote Labour for this very concern.

                However, the next election is a while away, hence I’m asking if all will be forgiven?

                Therefore, your guesswork is incorrect. I suspect you suffer from paranoia. My intention for asking the question was to gauge the feeling here.

                It’s Labour that failed to walk away (despite not getting all they wanted) and as I also pointed out to you, were prepared to sign. Thus, would have created the “discord” and “prising apart” you seem to be concerned about.

                So why are you directing your crap at me and not them?

                • the lack of response to your question is because it is the wrong question

                  ?/! = 1

                  • The Chairman

                    It’s a question Labour should be asking themselves. But going off the feedback thus far (nothing at this stage) nobody cares, so they have nothing to worry about.

                    If we fail to make a noise now, it signals to them all is fine.

                    • weka

                      That’s right, you are the only person in NZ that cares about the TPPA and what Labour does.

                    • The Chairman

                      Far from it.

                      The comment was made in context of the feedback thus far. Thus, was a tad sarcastic.

              • The Chairman

                @ Robert Guyton

                As for speculating on whether they will sign it. I believe they will. And if it all falls apart, it won’t be because of Labour’s unwillingness.

                What do you reckon?

  19. Whispering Kate 23

    It doesn’t surprise me that Labour will sign up for this deal, it was in the bag from the get go. I don’t know how they are going to reconcile this with their two support partners in coalition – it will be a betrayal for them. They probably will have to get National’s support to get it accross the line.

    I didn’t vote for them, but I am of that age group that will never forget the pig farmer and his reforms and what it has done to this country of ours. Labour has never got rid of their economic reforms and only dabble around the edges of it. I am like a lot of people and think that they should be attacking the pathetic benefits that are paid for the disabled and ill people in this country, if it wasn’t for families helping them out they would be on the streets.

    Good on Jacinda for getting to be Prime Minister but its just going to be more of the same under her Government, I wonder what Professor Jane Kelsey has to say about this latest TPPA progress, I don’t think she will be impressed one bit.

    • Robert Guyton 23.1

      Let’s see what’s been (about to be) agreed to before we decry all and sundry, shall we?
      It’s a very heated debate, the TPPA but that beast has shifted shape many times since its conception. I’m waiting to see what form it has taken now. Old views may well be redundant.

      • The Chairman 23.1.1

        So, Labour have gone from not signing up unless they get the changes they wanted, to lowering the bar and accepting some of what they wanted.

        And you’re OK with that lowering of the bar, Robert, thus hold out hope it will be a good deal?

    • The Chairman 23.2

      Largely agree, Kate.

  20. cleangreen 24

    Just announced on NZ media that Canada and Veitnam have both pulled out of the TPP11

    I am so proud I became a Canadian Citizen in 1976 after living there as a kiwi, and now my second country saved my first country.

    I now have found a true love of Canada again . Yippee shit I am going to open a bottle of bubbly.

    I feel sorry for James, BM, srylands, and 3stepstotheright as they are all loosers.

    Jacinda said she was not spending any more time on this TPP 11 now.

    Going on to APEC meeting now.

    Wise move so;

    I now am proud to keep my Canadian citizenship as Canada saved my birthplace of NZ.

    I love you Canada for saving NZ from corporate bondage.

    Happy days again..

    Come home Jacinda and we will rebuild our beautiful NZ again and shake off the shackles of corporate bondage,

    Lets do this. ilovejacinda my princess.

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