Open mike 11/01/2022

86 comments on “Open mike 11/01/2022 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   11 January 2022 at 6:30 am

   I've been watching last night's TDB podcast on the economy of 2022, in which Bomber orchestrates a foursome with commentary from Bernard, a prominent entrepreneurial economist, Simon, the lawyer National is using as finance spokesperson due to having nobody in their caucus with financial expertise, and Damien, the libertarian Stuff columnist ex-criminal.

   Bomber asked Bernard if the current Minister of Finance would get a knighthood for creating a new class of wealthy property speculators. Bernard started by saying that he'd probably get one anyway. Nice evasion there.

   Labour would probably say "No no, you mustn't think that. It was all an unfortunate accident!" That the kiwi middle class transformed itself into a landlord class is best framed the way Labour views it: "Elephant in the room?? Where? Can't see one, don't be ridiculous!"

   Thatcher preached the gospel of mum & dad investors 40 years ago and the political left and right have been locked into collusion ever since, implementing her vision.

   Vital that Labour never tells the truth about doing this! No worries, pretence is something that Labour excels at – perhaps the only thing. Having operated as the Alternative National Party for so long now, the people who believed Labour was the exact opposite of National are now all dead. So Sir Grant will happen due to his resolute practice of Thatcherism.

   Then Bernard said everyone believes their home values will continue to double every two years, so they make economic planning decisions on that basis. BAU. Then he said it was unsustainable, and there ought to be a govt agency created to implement a policy of zero house price inflation. Noticing that something intelligent was happening, Bomber immediately called for a commercial break.

   If interested, watch at 43 mins in: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/01/10/7-30pm-tonight-the-working-group-1-hour-economy-special-with-bernard-hickey-simon-bridges-damien-grant/
   • Patricia Bremner 1.1

     11 January 2022 at 11:19 am

     We are all dead? Lol Not yet!! Might be true in another 10 years.
     • Dennis Frank 1.1.1

       11 January 2022 at 11:46 am

       Okay. Sorry.

       But it does raise the question of how you rationalise their adherence to neoliberalism along with National's – and in particular their coproduction of the enlarged landlord class.
       • Patricia Bremner 1.1.1.1

         11 January 2022 at 4:13 pm

         Dennis, Thatcher went to war, did not believe in community, practiced austerity and raising taxes. This Labour Government has had to battle housing as every country World wide is doing. Singapore's approach is thought provoking, but they are able to make dictates. To say this Government is the same as National would be is a real stretch. Remember we are a democracy so the middle way tends to rule. When revolutions occur they seldom favour the poor, rule of law agreements between parties cities countries is the best we have managed. We tie it to Trade so we are hogtied.
         • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1.1

           11 January 2022 at 4:25 pm

           Dunno about the Thatcher raising taxes bit. Misprint?

           I agree there are significant tonal differences between Labour & National but the economic ideology is shared. I agree the middle way works best but it also preserves inertia and our global situation makes that lethal.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   11 January 2022 at 6:47 am

   Here's the evidence of the impact of 30 years of global talkfests:

   The Copernicus Climate Change Service said 2021 was the fifth-warmest year… The Copernicus data comes from a constellation of Sentinel satellites that monitor the Earth from orbit, as well as measurements taken at ground level… The 2021 average temperature was 1.1-1.2C above the pre-industrial level around 150 years ago.

   carbon dioxide concentrations reached 414.3 parts per million last year, growing at a similar rate to 2020. But scientists remarked that methane levels in the atmosphere increased to reach an unprecedented approximately 1,876 parts per billion. The growth rate of methane was also higher than in 2020 – Copernicus said both rates were very high compared to the past two decades of satellite data… The increasing concentrations of these gases showed no signs of slowing down, concluded Vincent-Henri Peuch, Director of the Copernicus Atmosphere Monitoring Service.

   "These events are a stark reminder of the need to change our ways, take decisive and effective steps toward a sustainable society and work towards reducing net carbon emissions," Carlo Buontempo, director of the Copernicus Climate Change Service, explains.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/459332/past-seven-years-hottest-on-record-eu-satellite-data

   Evidence that democracy works clocks in at exactly zero. Prediction: retards will ignore the evidence and continue to believe in democracy.
   • pat 2.1

     11 January 2022 at 7:04 am

     Democracy dosn't work?….who should make the rules we live by?

     God (which version)?…

     Some foreign power?…

     Alphabet Inc?…

     Or perhaps we should forget about rules altogether?
     • Dennis Frank 2.1.1

       11 January 2022 at 7:13 am

       forget about rules

       Depends which game it's best to be playing, eh? Rules are made to be broken, some folks think. When global climate changes, it's a game-changer world we find ourselves shifting into. Old mental patterns make us part of the problem.

       We need to flex to adapt to the times we're in. Default dependency on democracy locks us into failure. Therefore those intent on surviving will shift out of that mindset. Whatever works will do.

       That said, rules can be retained on a utility basis in contexts where they can be seen to still work okay. I reckon the best way forward is to combine pragmatic usage of stable systems (like law) with innovative & inventive alterations to them.
       • pat 2.1.1.1

         11 January 2022 at 7:19 am

         Lol….so no idea then.

         Democracy is crap but all the alternatives are worse….so somebody once said.
         • Dennis Frank 2.1.1.1.1

           11 January 2022 at 7:30 am

           so no idea then

           It puzzles me that you'd jump to that conclusion. As if you'd never heard of improvisation. As if you'd never noticed how well it works in real life.

           As if you've never deduced that it works because it's context-driven. As if you're unaware that our changing global climate context requires us to improvise. As if you've never actually thought about that.

           Anyway, it was Winston Churchill. Different geopolitical context, get it? Humanity can't progress when people default to failed ways of thinking. Get that head out of the sand!
           • Gezza 2.1.1.1.1.1

             11 January 2022 at 8:56 am

             The problem is that your framing is so puzzling, Dennis.

             Evidence that democracy works clocks in at exactly zero. Prediction: retards will ignore the evidence and continue to believe in democracy.

             The fact is Democracy has worked very well in numerous countries for a century or more. As evidenced by the number of democracies. Has worked better than 2 of the 3 the classic examples of Facism (Franco’s fascist state lasted until his death), & both Soviet-style & Mao-style Communism, for example.

             Re your response to pat’s challenge to identify a better system:

             It puzzles me that you’d jump to that conclusion. As if you’d never heard of improvisation. As if you’d never noticed how well it works in real life.

             Democracies – particularly those that have employed capitalism – have thrived on improvisation. That’s how so much scientific & technological progress has been made in Western democracies. And improvisation also works well in societies that foster a DIY culture, at the national & individual level.

             As if you’ve never deduced that it [democracy?] works because it’s context-driven. As if you’re unaware that our changing global climate context requires us to improvise. As if you’ve never actually thought about that.

             Humanity can’t progress when people default to failed ways of thinking. Get that head out of the sand!

             You’re barking up the wrong tree, imo. Because international global talkfest consensus decisions haven’t done enough to solve the GHG global warming-induced Climate Crisis is not down to a failure of Democracy as a system of government. Many nations that aren’t democracies have participated. There is NO World Democracy.

             So, pat’s question was perfectly valid. If you think democracie won’t work for solving the climate crisis – what other system of government – for either the World or individual nations – do you propose as the alternative system of government which will?

             Although autocracies, if they really grasp the nettle, might perhaps be more likely to enforce the industrial, social & lifestyle changes needed to sharply head off global warming on their populations – I’m not sure any (like China) have actually done so yet.

             In my view people living in democracies are more likely to come up with the alternative lifestyles & produce the technical innovations needed to address the problems of climate change than autocracies or any other form of government.
             • Dennis Frank …

               11 January 2022 at 9:22 am

               what other system of government – for either the World or individual nations – do you propose as the alternative system of government which will?

               I think that's the pertinent bit to respond to. Gezza, I take the point that my brevity provided insufficient framing.

               First, a serious global crisis requires a serious global solution. Democracy has never been implemented at the global level. Few still expect the UN to deliver it.

               Lateral thinking is required. In social change, that usually takes the forms I pointed out to Pat: invention & innovation. A suitable model is the one deployed to bring the Cold War to a successful conclusion, which I've discussed on various occasions here during the past seven years.

               It was based on reciprocity & mutual benefits just like capitalism (trading, deals) and used a ratchet design mechanism for arms reduction which Reagan made famous with the slogan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify

               But the strategy was derived from a famous computer tournament in the early 1980s, [see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation%5D and that's the inventive bit.

               Nobody would think a computer game could end a war that had lasted decades, right? They proved it could, and did. Lateral thinking.

               Now consider the zillions of dollars lying around doing nothing useful in a multitude of billionaire bank accounts. Gates & Buffet have been modelling philanthropy to target inequality etc – why not global warming? It's just a mental switch. When switched, seems obvious in retrospect & everyone wonders why it took so long to think of it.

               Consider inventors as a reservoir of talent waiting to be used. Create a tournament for them to submit competing designs, use a panel of suitable political/economic/cultural experts to award prizes to winners by consensus. Design criteria to prioritise the best fixes most likely to work in practice would be essential…

               Now you see what I have done here? I have reframed your question about types of governance into the relation of global problem to global solution. Such innovative mass psychology is the key.
               • Gezza …

                 11 January 2022 at 10:43 am

                 consider the zillions of dollars lying around doing nothing useful in a multitude of billionaire bank accounts. Gates & Buffet have been modelling philanthropy to target inequality etc – why not global warming? It’s just a mental switch. When switched, seems obvious in retrospect & everyone wonders why it took so long to think of it.

                 Consider inventors as a reservoir of talent waiting to be used. Create a tournament for them to submit competing designs, use a panel of suitable political/economic/cultural experts to award prizes to winners by consensus. Design criteria to prioritise the best fixes most likely to work in practice would be essential…

                 Good idea. (How do you know Gates and Buffett aren’t already investing in climate change solutions, btw? I haven’t looked. Have you?)

                 Now you see what I have done here? I have reframed your question about types of governance into the relation of global problem to global solution. Such innovative mass psychology is the key.

                 What I see is that you have a good idea that you could simply have stated as such at the outset & not distracted yourself, pat, me, and possibly other readers, by a completely unnecessary peripatetic wandering around the completely irrelevant subject of democracy before you got there.
                 • Dennis Frank …

                   11 January 2022 at 10:50 am

                   I haven’t looked. Have you?

                   No, that's too likely to be a waste of time. Both mainstreamers!

                   the completely irrelevant subject of democracy

                   Had to do that due to it being the prevalent belief system. Only with continual focus on the mismatch between belief & reality can you hope to jolt them out of the habitual attachment. Einstein's dictum re insanity comes to mind: they keep doing global climate conferences in the hope that nations will implement output decisions in national policy. That continual policy implentation failure is rooted in democracy.
                   • Gezza …

                     11 January 2022 at 10:56 am

                     That’s got nothing to do with democracy & everything to do with international consensus decision-making which is not the same thing.

                     You should probably check out Gates & Buffett in case they are already doing something along the lines of what you suggest. How do they choose what projects to invest in?

                     But if not, having a good idea is fine, but getting it implemented is what counts. How do you propose to get it implemented? Who are you going to propose your idea to?
                   • Gezza …

                     11 January 2022 at 11:05 am

                     Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates on Thursday said his climate investment fund would pledge $1.5 billion for joint projects with the federal government to combat climate change if Congress passes a bipartisan infrastructure plan that funds clean energy technologies.

                     https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/bill-gates-pledges-1point5-billion-for-infrastructure-plans-climate-projects-.html
                 • Dennis Frank …

                   11 January 2022 at 11:42 am

                   Huh?? You really don't believe that legislation to enact international agreements isn't part of democracy?? On what basis?
                   • Gezza …

                     11 January 2022 at 12:27 pm

                     Wtf has that got to do with your suggestion, or the point you were making about innovation & inventions being needed to help address climate change?

                     AFAIK Democracies AND autocracies both domestically legislate to give effect to their signups to international agreements that require this to happen. (Whether they employ/enforce & honour that legislation might be another matter.)

                     Are you proposing to get democracies to legislate to make your suggestion, & inovation & invention compulsory?

                     Sorry, but I’m not wasting any more time & energy on your convoluted & hopelessly philosophically muddled approach to this topic Dennis. You’ve gone down a rabbit hole, imo.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.1.2

       11 January 2022 at 11:21 am

       Like the Ozzies? Ignore the "rule of law"?
   • Pete 2.2

     11 January 2022 at 8:51 am

     Democracy doesn't work. We need decisiveness and positive action.

     For that it is best to have one person in charge at the top of the pyramid and they rule and instigate action by those further down. Who carry out the dictates not of themselves but of those atop them. Carry out without deviation or variation based on personal interpretation.

     For our first such sortie into getting rid of talkfests and prevarication and establishing firm, unequivocal, certain parameters for the society to operate under, I would suggest the first person to be our leader should be Kiwi Jong-un. I'm sure there is someone out there to fill that bill.
     • Gezza 2.2.1

       11 January 2022 at 9:06 am

       it is best to have one person in charge at the top of the pyramid and they rule and instigate action by those further down. Who carry out the dictates not of themselves but of those atop them. Carry out without deviation or variation based on personal interpretation.

       Otherwise known as the Führerprinzip. The problem with this system is that absolute power often corrupts absolutely. And if the Führer is wrong or goes insane no one can do anything about it unless & until they kill them, or they kill themselves.
     • Dennis Frank 2.2.2

       11 January 2022 at 9:26 am

       You mean that guy with the swishback & dark glasses. Christian. Good at telling people what to do. They even reward him with money. God's will be done!
3. Stephen D 3

   11 January 2022 at 7:37 am

   One of the pitfalls National are going to have to avoid is being branded as Labour Lite. Their usual mantra of less spending = tax cuts is off the agenda given the Covid situation. If they propose more housing, more hospitals, schools and general infrastructure, Labour Lite. If they try do lift the poverty stats via Working for Families, Labour Lite. Climate change, Labour Lite.

   Fascinating.
   • Blazer 3.1

     11 January 2022 at 8:17 am

     What a battle it will be…Labour lite vs National …lite!
     • Jenny how to get there 3.1.1

       11 January 2022 at 8:53 am

       National can never be branded Labour lite as long as the pandemic lasts.

       National may pose as Labour lite for all they like, but history shows that voters would be making a big mistake to trust them to follow through.

       Jim Bolger played the Labour lite card to win the 1990 election, promising to reverse a lot of the unpopular right wing neo-liberal policies of the Lange/Douglas administration. Bolger promised to stop the privatisations of state assets, promised to repeal the Superannuation Surcharge, promised students to cut student debt and user pays in tertiary education brought in by the Lange/Douglas administration.

       All these reversals gave birth to the populist NZ First Party. Formed in revolt against National's reversals, NZ First acted to keep the Bolger administration in power as a support party. Despite their leader promising to never work with that man.

       Luxton might try to promise the electorate that a National Party led administration, backed by NZ First and Act will handle the pandemic better than a Labour led administration. But no one would believe him.
   • Jenny how to get there 3.2

     11 January 2022 at 8:47 am

     The one place that shows that National stays true to their profit before people ethos and does not, can not, play the Labour Lite card is around the pandemic.

     Despite the cost in deaths and sickness, private profit will always be prioritised over public health by National.

     And this is the one defining issue of our time that separates National from Labour where there can be no hiding.
     • Patricia Bremner 3.2.1

       11 January 2022 at 11:26 am

       Agree Jenny, Nats constant "open up" cries show where their values lie. Like Scotty from Marketing, "Let it rip" Our family over in Oz are truly affected by that.
   • bwaghorn 3.3

     11 January 2022 at 12:01 pm

     Wont matter what national says, itll be austerity and sewage in the hospital walls if national gets back in.
4. Stephen D 4

   11 January 2022 at 7:39 am

   On a far more serious matter, I suspect Latham will enforce the follow on.

   The bowlers’ workload yesterday wasn’t that great. BD’s batters will be a little shellshocked, and you want to take the weather out of the equation altogether.
   • Nic the NZer 4.1

     11 January 2022 at 8:03 am

     Why wouldn't you enforce the follow on? Batting first and last is how to make the most use of the available playing time.
     • Bearded Git 4.1.1

       11 January 2022 at 12:53 pm

       Most test match captains do not enforce the follow on these days. But in this situation, with the NZ bowlers able to start fresh again this morning, and with such a massive lead, it makes sense to enforce it.
   • higherstandard 4.2

     11 January 2022 at 8:41 am

     Follow on must be enforced. 300 plus run lead, fresh bowlers (less overs bowled than 50 over match) and the possibility of some inclement weather as it's NZ).
5. Jenny how to get there 5

   11 January 2022 at 7:50 am

   Short and sweet.

   In a sea of disinformation and longwinded paranoid far right conspiracy theories. Martyn Bradbury employs the Kiss Principle.

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/01/10/the-one-graph-that-tells-you-all-you-need-to-know-about-omicron-in-an-ocean-of-disinformation/
   • dv 5.1

     11 January 2022 at 7:59 am

     Excellent piece by bomber.
   • UncookedSelachimorpha 5.2

     11 January 2022 at 8:08 am

     Interesting graph and an important one for NZ, thanks.

     Makes sense given the Imperial College London study that shows the reduction in omicron severity is much greater in the vaccinated, compared to the unvaccinated.
   • Dennis Frank 5.3

     11 January 2022 at 8:35 am

     So some of his commenters jump into playing at the competing graphs game. Then we got Ethan Woke:

     No reputable medical professional in the world is now claiming Omicron is a threat to public health. It just seems to be a rag tag bunch of cheerleaders, sycophants, pseudoscientists and those suffering from mass psychosis who seem to be fretting over this benign disease (actually just a laboratory artefact) and praying for another lockdown, while providing cover for the likes of prime ministers and dictators.

     I wonder if his surname signifies he's an aspirational leader for the wokester tribe?
     • Tricledrown 5.3.1

       11 January 2022 at 9:29 am

       NSW having a terrible time hospitals are struggling health professionals burning out.

       Because mainly the unvaxxed overloading the health system.

       Can't link but govt stats show 63% of covid infected hospitalizations are unvaccinated yet only make up less than20% of the population.Partially vaccinated 18% fully vaccinated only 1.8% yet they make up nearly 80% of the population.
       • Dennis Frank 5.3.1.1

         11 January 2022 at 9:59 am

         Yeah, have already noticed that pattern. Belief systems are inertial & when they are incompatible with reality then adherents deny reality. They deny evidence such as statistics.

         Neuroscience has documented how this works – emotions prevail over logic. Emotional attachments to what people already think they know prevail over new info that conflicts with their knowledge.
         • Gezza 5.3.1.1.1

           11 January 2022 at 1:36 pm

           Yes, yes, this all well-known & has been exploited by advertisers & propagandists for a century or more. But it doesn’t always apply to everything for everbody (Most Germans realised they were losing the war while the rabid Nazis were still choosing to believe Dr Goebels).

           And it often doesn’t apply to those who are aware of their emotional responses but prefer to employ research, analysis, logic & reasoning to their decision-making. Which many females seem innately good at when shopping (think I’ll wait for the sales).
       • gsays 5.3.1.2

         11 January 2022 at 12:57 pm

         Not denying Covid impact on the health system with this.

         I can reliably inform you, about the NZ system, that under staffing, under resourcing, poor planning and neo liberal, market driven politics have done way more damage to our hospitals.

         Both National and Labour are responsible for this.

         Until recently, I could read the vaccination status of those hospitalised in Stuff articles. Around New Year, it was approx. 50/50 Unvaxxed and not eligible/started their vax regime and fully vaxxed. I have not seen this since New Year.
   • mauī 5.4

     11 January 2022 at 10:52 pm

     Bradburys graph looks to show the unvaccinated hospitalization rate increasing 3 or 4 times.

     That doesn't make much sense from what I can figure out. As many high risk people should be reduced in the unvaccinated group by having moved over into the vaccinated group by now.

     New Yorkers should have plenty of antibodies in the population from previous waves – greater chance of immunity in population.

     Omicron is a significantly weaker virus, causing less hospitalizations.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 5.4.1

       11 January 2022 at 11:36 pm

       Are you suggesting that graph is fabricated? The Omicron variant has caused a large surge in N.Y. state active COVID-19 cases, currently ~1.7 million (and rising), which is nearly double the previous maximum of ~0.9 million active cases, in Feb. 2021.

       Even with protection from vaccination, and/or prior infection (not relevant in NZ), plus improved treatments, a small spike in deaths is inevitable – more than 100 deaths per day (7-day moving average) over the last 6 days for N.Y. state alone .

       When Will Omicron Peak in NYC? Cases, Hospitalizations Still Trending Straight Up [5 January 2022]

       Ultimately, officials say vaccinations will quell the increases in hospitalizations and deaths associated with the omicron wave. That's why they're urging calm at this time — and pushing vaccinations and COVID boosters for those who have to get them. That's especially true for children, who have seen COVID hospitalizations soar to unprecedented numbers in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut lately.

       In New York, health officials say all of the 5-to-11-year-old children hospitalized for COVID through the first three weeks of December were unvaccinated. Only about a quarter of those aged 12 to 17 were vaccinated.
6. joe90 6

   11 January 2022 at 9:06 am

   Tasmania opened up 26 days ago with zero Covid cases.

   
   • Shanreagh 6.1

     11 January 2022 at 11:03 am

     Well goodness me would you look at those vaccination rates. 'D'ya thunk that might have something to do with it?'

     Without the /s hat on I like the naming of the category [email protected] Hopefully this refers to a programme of nursing in the community ie with GP/Nurse support.
7. joe90 7

   11 January 2022 at 9:58 am

   We need Rogan to start yapping about this and perhaps the angry alt-covid choads will be convinced that that yet another miraculous off-label therapy, sculling your own piddle, is being suppressed.

   “Vaccine Police” anti-vaxxer Christopher Key has a new conspiracy for his moronic MAGA followers to cure Covid: Drink their own urine.

   “The antidote is urine therapy. God’s given us everything we need… This vaccine is the worst bioweapon I've ever seen."

   JFC🤦‍♂️#DemVoice1 pic.twitter.com/LY9ywlMlhu

   — The Jewish Ginger Resister (@JewishResister) January 10, 2022
   • dv 7.1

     11 January 2022 at 10:23 am

     Aha

     So full of piss!!!

     Or
     A piss take???
     • joe90 7.1.1

       11 January 2022 at 10:39 am

       Dude's got a car full of guns and a flamethrower and reckons he's off to all the blue states to see the governors.

       

       https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vax-leader-traveling-country-with-guns-flamethrower-and-fake-badge-prepared-to-arrest-dem-governors
       • Gezza 7.1.1.1

         11 January 2022 at 1:56 pm

         From the article:
         On Saturday night, when asked about the guns and if he intends to bring them along when conducting the planned arrests, Key told The Daily Beast he is “never about violence.” “I will do it [the citizen arrests] lawfully, and the sheriffs will be with me,” he added.

         The guy sounds like a bullshit artist to me. If he seriously plans to pull those guns out on state legislature premises or at governor’s residences this could get very amusing for everybody but him. But one suspects, from what he said above, that he won’t use his guns if nobody from law enforcement is interested in doing the same. And they won’t be.
         • joe90 7.1.1.1.1

           11 January 2022 at 3:00 pm

           this could get very amusing for everybody but him.

           Or not..

           Directly above me, men with rifles yelling at us. Some of my colleagues who own bullet proof vests are wearing them. I have never appreciated our Sergeants-at-Arms more than today. #mileg pic.twitter.com/voOZpPYWOs

           — Senator Dayna Polehanki (@SenPolehanki) April 30, 2020
           • Gezza 7.1.1.1.1.1

             11 January 2022 at 5:01 pm

             He sounds like he’s a one man band though, joe. If he turns up alone, at State Capitols, or governors’ official residences, waving his guns (or flamethrower?) around, what do you think is likely to happen? I reckon he’ll find himself staring straight up the barrels of multiple law enforcement firearms & if he’s lucky he’ll be told to drop his firearms & get face down on the ground immediately. If he’s unlucky, he’ll get shot.
   • Dennis Frank 7.2

     11 January 2022 at 10:29 am

     Got trendy in the '90s – I saw a feature in Nexus. My reaction was ugh! Still is. Origin part-biblical: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_therapy

     In China there is a Urine Therapy Association which claims thousand of members… Though urine has been believed useful for diagnostic and therapeutic purposes in several traditional systems, and mentioned in some medical texts, auto-urine therapy as a system of alternative medicine was popularized by British naturopath John W. Armstrong in the early 20th century.

     Armstrong was inspired by his family's practice of using urine to treat minor stings and toothaches, by a metaphorical reading of the Biblical Proverb 5:15 "Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well", and his own experience with ill-health that he treated with a 45-day fast "on nothing but urine and tap water".

     Starting in 1918, Armstrong prescribed urine-therapy regimens that he devised to many thousands of patients, and in 1944 he published The Water of Life: A treatise on urine therapy, which became a founding document of the field.
     • joe90 7.2.1

       11 January 2022 at 10:44 am

       Pretty sure virgin boy eggs take the biscuit.

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_boy_egg
       • Dennis Frank 7.2.1.1

         11 January 2022 at 10:53 am

         Blech! I don't even do insects. Leave that to the hillbillies in Westland.
8. Blazer 8

   11 January 2022 at 10:10 am

   Novak wins his appeal…

   'I want to stay': Novak Djokovic heads straight to Australian Open courts after huge legal victory | Stuff.co.nz
9. weka 9

   11 January 2022 at 11:08 am

   Does anyone have a link to a graph of NZ daily case numbers? Community cases mostly, but would be interested to see MiQ cases too. Want the trend over time.
   • weka 9.1

     11 January 2022 at 11:12 am

     there's this but it doesn't separate out community from MiQ

     https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases
     • weka 9.1.1

       11 January 2022 at 11:16 am

       this one is better but still the combined numbers

       https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=nzl&areasRegional=usny&areasRegional=usnh&areasRegional=uspr&areasRegional=usdc&areasRegional=usfl&areasRegional=usmi&cumulative=0&logScale=0&per100K=0&startDate=2021-06-01&values=cases
   • Poission 9.2

     11 January 2022 at 11:45 am

     RNZ has a good dashboard everything you want.

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/450874/covid-19-data-visualisations-nz-in-numbers
     • weka 9.2.1

       11 January 2022 at 12:26 pm

       perfect, thanks.
     • Bearded Git 9.2.2

       11 January 2022 at 12:37 pm

       Thanks Poission-excellent. That has been bookmarked.
10. Dennis Frank 10

    11 January 2022 at 11:52 am

    God will provide: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127463307/council-sends-14000-traffic-management-bill-to-antigovernment-protesters

    The Christchurch City Council has sent The Freedom and Rights Coalition group, founded by Destiny Church leader Brian Tamaki, a $14,117.47 invoice for costs it incurred during three protests in Cranmer Square and elsewhere in the city in November and early December. Another invoice will be sent to cover costs associated with Saturday’s protest in Hagley Park and on Riccarton Rd.

    The council is also taking action to prevent the coalition and church from holding protests and weekly church services in Cranmer Square. The events, which include staging, portaloos and sound systems, are in breach of a council bylaw and possibly its District Plan too.
    • Gezza 10.1

      11 January 2022 at 5:06 pm

      Good luck to the Christchurch City Council getting those paid. Apostle Tamaki will probably argue he didn’t personally organise the protests & he didn’t request the services the Council is trying to charge him for.

      Will be interesting to see how this pans out though. Hope Stuff follows up the story with updates.
      • Gezza 10.1.1

        11 January 2022 at 5:15 pm

        Having now read the story it seems Derek Tait a senior pastor at Destiny Church in Christchurch organised the protests. I expect the Freedom & Rights Coalition will still argue it didn’t request the traffic management & services provided. The police did. They’ll possibly suggest the council bills the police! 😀
        • Gezza 10.1.1.1

          11 January 2022 at 8:31 pm

          That Christchurch City Council has fined Apostle Tamaki AND billed his coalition for traffic management services got a mention on 1ewes at 6 tonight. It also mentioned that Tamaki has denied attending a protest last Saturday & that he says he was attending a “family picnic”. 🙄 I’m sure his invitation was expressed that way. Slippery blighter.
11. Bearded Git 11

    11 January 2022 at 12:31 pm

    My understanding is the loophole that Djok has used-a positive Covid test within 6 months of needing to be vaccinated-does not exist; this has been explicitly stated by the federal government. It was just the Victorian government and the tennis authorities who decided that this loophole worked and so granted the visa because they were both desperate for him to play in the Oz.

    But ScoMo is so pathetic that he may do another u-turn (having already executed one in the Djok case) and allow Djok to play.

    I hope this is the case because this is a sure-fire vote loser for him in the upcoming federal elections. Meanwhile Djok has become an icon of the extreme right and anti-vaxxers according to the Guardian today. He is going to get a lovely reception in Melbourne.
    • Pete 11.1

      11 January 2022 at 7:50 pm

      They can't really still ban or send Djokovic away can they? Regardless of what transgressions or wrong things they find they can't expel him. Why? Because there'd be riots against that.
      • Macro 11.1.1

        11 January 2022 at 8:10 pm

        But now there is another twist in the saga. Apparently he undertook not to travel for 14 days before travelling to Australia. But there now appear to be social media posts showing him in Belgrade on 26 Dec!

        In his Australian traveller declaration, filed on 1 January, Djokovic declared “no” when asked: “Have you travelled or will you travel in the 14 days prior to your flight to Australia?”

        The declaration is accompanied with a warning that giving false or misleading information is a “serious offence”, also punishable by civil penalties.

        In documents filed to the federal circuit court, Djokovic said that on 1 January he authorised his agent to submit this declaration, before travelling to Melbourne from Spain via Dubai on 4 January.

        In his interview with border force officials on 6 January, Djokovic confirmed the declaration was completed by his agent, “based on” his Tennis Australia-approved medical exemption, but was not asked in the interview about travel in the fortnight before arrival.

        A Twitter post by a Portuguese tennis reporter, Jose Morgado, appears to show Djokovic was in Belgrade at Christmas, posing with the handball star Petar Djordjic.

        https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/11/australian-border-force-investigating-whether-novak-djokovic-made-false-travel-claim
        • Anne 11.1.1.1

          11 January 2022 at 9:02 pm

          And it is alleged he travelled from Belgrade to Spain during the period in question where he practiced before leaving for Australia. There was an item on Stuff (I think) yesterday about it but can't find it now.
          • Macro 11.1.1.1.1

            11 January 2022 at 9:25 pm

            Yes he traveled from Spain to Australia – it says so in the Guardian link. Frankly he is playing fast and loose with the rules, and one wonders just how valid that positive test was when we see him supposedly the next day unmasked and in public obviously in good health.
      • Bearded Git 11.1.2

        12 January 2022 at 9:27 am

        Pete: IMHO the vast majority of Australians would cheer to the rafters if he was thrown out-it is a vote winner for ScoMo.

        The federal government has the power to throw him out-they control the borders.
        • Anne 11.1.2.1

          12 January 2022 at 9:44 am

          …the vast majority of Australians would cheer to the rafters if he was thrown out…

          I think they would too. It must stick in the craw of so many of them seeing a “maskhole” gain entry when their partners/spouses, mums. dads, siblings, cousins and friends can't get back and they are fully vaccinated.

          Geez, if I was an Aussie I would be literally smoking from head to feet with anger.
          • Anne 11.1.2.1.1

            12 January 2022 at 10:13 am

            Yes. Judging by this ABC item, it looks like Aussies are pissed off. Setting aside the controversies swirling around him, its the fact he is unvaccinated which is bothering most:

            https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-12/novak-djokovic-in-australian-open-visa-limbo/100750800
12. Dennis Frank 12

    11 January 2022 at 12:52 pm

    So there's a

    brilliant documentary by Chinese-American director Jessica Kingdon, which slyly observes China’s transition from the world’s factory to a massive consumer society. It’s a film in the tradition of Koyaanisqatsi or Nikolaus Geyrhalter’s Our Daily Bread.

    Shot in more than 50 locations in China, it splits more or less into three sections: factory workers, China’s growing middle class and the filthy-rich elite. There’s no voiceover or obvious narrative, just a stream of vignettes – at times an almost surreal compilation of images strung together… There’s a lot of humour in the sections on China’s middle class and super-wealthy. In one semi-excruciating scene pupils at a butler school are instructed in how to take crap from a boss: “No matter how he humiliates you, pretend to be obedient.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/10/ascension-review-chinas-bizarre-descent-into-capitalist-excess

    East converging on west, huh? But more authentically 19th century than our feeble Nat/Lab simulation. Butler school!
13. Anne 13

    11 January 2022 at 12:56 pm

    11 January 2022 at 12:55 pm

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/world-reacts-to-novax-court-document-damning-photos-expose-novak-djokovic/4OG4MUVZY4BUABENXMRV3JDG3M/

    Sports journalist Todd Balym tweeted: "Court documents show Novak Djokovic got his positive Covid test results shortly after 8pm on Dec 16 — so he knew he was Covid positive visiting kids & others the next 2 days. Court might've cleared him today, but public opinion will judge him as a selfish maskhole."

    Will he or won't he play in the Australian Open?
    • Pete 13.1

      11 January 2022 at 3:35 pm

      I smiled at the finish in Mark Reason's piece about Djokovic. He'd praised the attitude of Nick Kyrgios who'd said of the Serb , “At the end of the day, he is human. Do better.”

      Then Reason finishes: "Let’s remember, in the name of Arthur Ashe, that the world and the tennis world can be a better place if we really put our hearts and minds to it. Let’s start by giving the person close to you a hug."

      The day after you find you've got the virus and you're hugging kids at some event?

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/127474497/mark-reason-the-crazy-trial-of-novak-djokovic-and-why-nick-kyrgios-has-a-point

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/world-reacts-to-novax-court-document-damning-photos-expose-novak-djokovic/4OG4MUVZY4BUABENXMRV3JDG3M/
14. Gosman 14

    11 January 2022 at 2:12 pm

    You are attempting to re-write history here. The right did not choose to go after Turei personally. She attempted to use her past personal circumstances for political purposes and she was found to have exaggerated her situation and in the process she denigrated the family of the father of her daughter. That is why she resigned from politics not because of anything others did to her. It was largely her own doing.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • weka 14.1

      11 January 2022 at 2:18 pm

      Pre-empting your usual derail Gosman. Feel free to hash this one out in OM. But I’m keeping an eye on unfounded assertions about Turei, so mind your manners (and use links to back up).
      • Gosman 14.1.1

        11 January 2022 at 2:22 pm

        None of my comments about Turei are unfounded and my comment goes to the heart of your post as you were trying to imply Turei's policy proposals were the cause of her demise. In fact the media were generally supportive of her position and the right wing was no more aggressive in opposing them than any other set of Green party policy they disagreed with. The Greens got a massive boost in popularity as a result and it led directly to Ardern becoming the leader of the Labour party as they went even further behind National as they lost support to The Greens. It was only after her personal story unraveled as a result of people on the left (e.g. the family of the father of the daughter and the two Green party MP’s who resigned in protest at her actions) coming forward that she resigned.
        • weka 14.1.1.1

          11 January 2022 at 3:03 pm

          Next time, make your comment more relevant to the post. It's not about Turei and what happened, it's about how the GP are now.
          • Gosman 14.1.1.1.1

            11 January 2022 at 3:31 pm

            What is interesting is a number of posters on that thread have essentially reiterated the comments I made (but gone in to more detail).
            • weka 14.1.1.1.1.1

              11 January 2022 at 3:42 pm

              again, this here is why I pre-empted the derail.

              One other commenter talked about Turei, and one responded to that. I've asked them to focus on the post and the GP in 2022//2023. I didn't bother asking you to do that because I knew you would just argue with me.
15. Tricledrown 15

    11 January 2022 at 3:43 pm

    Yeah right Gosman mansplaining your way out again have you anything better to do maybe you could look up Paula Bennetts accuser on Facebook.

    The compare that to how Materia Turei was treated.

    You would never accept the truth a true born to rule Narcissisy
    • Gosman 15.1

      11 January 2022 at 4:33 pm

      What element of the Turei situation that I have described do you disagree with? She misrepresented her position and the support she received from her daughters fathers family.
16. Ad 16

    11 January 2022 at 5:41 pm

    Imagine what Shaw COULD have done.

    So many years wasted.

    Except at 7-10% for a term their members and supporters are simply content.

    The Greens alone hold the Greens back.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
17. Ad 17

    11 January 2022 at 5:48 pm

    Oh please your self-flattery is absurd.

    In 2022 you've finally admitted something is deeply wrong. Everyone saw it but you.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • weka 17.1

      11 January 2022 at 5:54 pm

      Stay out of the post for the rest of the day. Can’t be bothered with your trolling.

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