Open mike 11/11/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 11th, 2023 - 38 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

38 comments on “Open mike 11/11/2023 ”

    • mikesh 1.1

      Why did shipley roll Bolger and desovle the nzf coalition deal?

      I think it may have been because she thought the party insufficiently neoliberal after his removal of the the architect of "mother of all budgets" from the finance portfolio, and his backdown on the issue of the removal of the superannuation surcharge. However I'm only guessing. I think though that the sacking of Winston Peters from cabinet was because he disagreed with the decision to sell Wellington Airport, though again I could be wrong.

      • Ad 1.1.1

        New Zealand First began as an explicitly anti-neoliberal party, and Shipley took the most extreme forms of corporatisation into deep selloffs into her business mates.

        From memory it was the corporatisation of Wellington Airport and partial selloff to Infratil that really put paid to it, but it could have been any of those tawdry late '90s deals.

        NZFirst was formed in 1993 and was the first MMP coalition government with Bolger in 1996. Their history is here:

        https://www.nzfirst.nz/about

        • mikesh 1.1.1.1

          When everyone thinks Peters is going to support Labour he ends up supporting National. But when they think he will support National the opposite happens. How odd.

          Perhaps Hipkins' disowning of NZ1st was a cunning move to make everybody think that Peters would support National.

          • SPC 1.1.1.1.1

            In 1993 and 1996 Peters campaigned with the opposition, but went with National in 1996 (becoming part of a Treasurer Finance and PM ord ab chao Triumvirate in a simple two party coalition) – this exposed his intention to provide a centrist balance.

            In 2005 he said he would do the same, but let the people decide which party would lead the government – going with the largest party (he may have picked it would be Labour).

            In 2017, he said nothing in advance (National made presumptions based on a previous election).

            In 2023, he said he would support a National led government. Hipkins merely believed him.

            Thus a career of 4 one term coalitions – 2 with each party.

            Peter Dunne was his imitator – 2002-2005 (Labour) and 2008-2017 (National).

  1. Ad 2

    Sparkly still dewy morn here in Wanaka and not a shred of central politics worth a thought.

    Beautiful day.

    • Hunter Thompson II 2.1

      Nice to hear you are enjoying life in Wanaka. No doubt some corporate jerk will try to destroy that.

      A friend once told me that developers are like dogs; they come in, sniff around, pee in all the corners and then depart, leaving a mess behind.

  2. Sanctuary 3

    Look, I'm no conspiracy theorist but has anyone else noticed the just sworn in PM looks a lot like the old one?

  3. ianmac 4

    Funny that. And he is called Chris as well. Weird.

    • Sanctuary 4.1

      The uniparty state! Agenda 23! LINO! NINO! The jab kills you, coronavirus is simultaneously a Chinese plot to destroy the west and no worse than a mild cold!

      • Anne 4.1.1

        Nah. You got that wrong. Dr Fauci gave the Wuhan Lab millions/billions of dollars to create a killer virus and release it into the population. Its the New World Order people what's to blame.

        That came directly from a reliable source in 2020/21. 😮

        • Barfly 4.1.1.1

          well it's pretty kool that i can just reach out my hand and have my tools fly into it cos 'magnetic' but I still can't get the right radio station by twisting my ears no matter how hard I try …maybe another booster shot will help!

  4. miravox 5

    Behind the paywall and I can't remember the free reader app, but my goodness this is heartbreaking.

    It's up there with something I heard in the Pharmac review process a couple of years back, about pharmac staff hands up voting to decide which lucky patients were going to get their meds funded. The organisation just doesn't seem to see patients as people with lives to live.

    Maybe Steve Maharey should be considering his options along with Sara Fitt.

    http://New Pharmac emails ‘deeply offend’ cancer campaigner Malcolm Mulholland https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-pharmac-emails-deeply-offend-cancer-campaigner-malcolm-mulholland/7YGG3P3TVBCZNGBEGMTRB73JYA/

      • miravox 5.1.1

        Thanks!

      • Drowsy M. Kram 5.1.2

        Pharmac usually only makes the news regarding drugs it doesn't or didn't fund.

        Pharmac Review – Final Report: Executive Summary [Feb 2022]
        Every country wrestles with the challenge of funding an ever-increasing array of new and expensive medicines. For 27 years in Aotearoa New Zealand that task has fallen to Pharmac, and with it the responsibility for managing the hugely sensitive trade-offs involved in securing pharmaceuticals for our hospitals, primary healthcare and ultimately consumers…

        It has been my privilege to lead the first review of how well Pharmac meets its objective of achieving the best health outcomes for all New Zealanders, within a capped budget.

        And there's the rub – a capped budget. To fund new medicines, something has to give. Pharmac staff "manage over $2 billion of government funding", so how might a NZ government achieve a doubling of Pharmac's budget? Maybe tax cuts are the answer.

        [excerpts from the Pharmac Review – Final Report: Executive Summary]
        It also operates in an environment where international pharmaceutical companies insist on confidential deals, involving complicated rebate and discount schemes, all designed to ensure countries and jurisdictions pay top dollar and cannot compare prices paid.

        Investment in cancer medicines, which appears to favour non-Māori/non-Pacific populations and those living in urban areas, has been made at the expense of other treatments.

        A pharmaceutical company’s core purpose is to develop, promote and profitably sell its pharmaceutical products. By contrast, Pharmac’s core purpose is to make an assessment across various and often competing products as to which pharmaceuticals should be bought, and at what price, to best meet the public health needs of New Zealanders while keeping within its fixed budget. Inevitably these two purposes lead to tension – a by-product of making trade-offs about which medicines to fund within a limited budget.

        There is no doubt New Zealand lags other countries in the provision of cancer medicines. Recent research shows the gap is widening, particularly between Australia and New Zealand. Pharmac is under increasing pressure from pharmaceutical companies, patients, advocacy groups, and the media to fund these ‘missing medicines’. However, these discussions on access rarely consider health benefits, risks, affordability, and the likely impact on population health outcomes.

        • Bearded Git 5.1.2.1

          One wonders how close to the drug companies are the people criticising Pharmac. I think we should be told.

          In fact Pharmac seems to be focused on giving New Zealanders the best value for money health treatment it can under the financial cap it works under. Rich people don't have an issue of course-they can pay for any drug they want.

          Comparisons with the health system in Australia are stupid because Australia is so much richer. Australians earn an average salary of NZ$102k versus New Zealand $58k.

          https://simplenewzealand.com/salaries-in-new-zealand-vs-australia/

          I bet Luxon finds billions extra for defence but leaves the Pharmac budget at its current level.

        • miravox 5.1.2.2

          Pharmac had a review about the proces of funding medications. The Feb 2022 exec summary is here.

          The issue raised by Malcolm Mulholland in this instance is not about the funding as such, but hoe Pharmac sees patient advocates. And he has a point.

          I was at the meeting of NGOs in the review process (the meds the group of patinents I represent are not for rare disorders, but they are expensive). One of the weird things that was raised was how they choose between meds competient for the same $$, but for different patient groups – someone gave the example of Pharmac getting all it's staff into a room (a representative population was the justification – make of that what you will) and having a vote. The most popular got ranked higher. Whether this is true or not, the report noted in its section on decision-making (p9) that:

          We found Pharmac’s decision-making processes did not always follow its own internal guidance. Further, it could be more transparent and explicit, and could address equity considerations much more rigorously and directly.

          A summary of this section of the report shows that overall:

          • Pharmac’s decision-making errors and omissions could be increasing inequities. Factors for Consideration (in decision-making) were too wideranging with no formal means of evaluating how they had been applied.
          • It was difficult to assess whether they were being applied consistently across applications and over time.
          • even if the factors for consideration had been applied, they did not make a material difference to the outcome when the application was being ranked on the options for investment list.
          • there is a need for greater diversity of voices in the decision-making process including from its Consumer Advisory Committee

          In these circumstances patients and there representatives must advocate for themselves. The issue here, is how Pharmac is responding to that advocacy. Instead of responding to the report, and fixing their systems, Pharmac managent seems to have gotten a seige mentality, seeing these advocates as enemies. The report als says

          We also see the need for greater diversity of voices in the decision-making process including from its consumer advisory committee … There is room to improve communication, both with the public – the various stages of the assessment process are unclear to the members of the public who rely on Pharmac’s website for information – and with applicants.

          We remain concerned about Pharmac’s ability to express in clear terms the basis for its decisions and suggest it adopt a proactive release approach to its decisions, rather than waiting for Official Information Act requests.

          I was also involved in a direct-to-consumer information trial when a branded med was changed to a generic. The staff worked hard to get that right from info on its own website to collaboratiion with patient groups, pharmacists and prescribers. It went pretty well. So they can do it – but not with the attitude to patients and advocates that senior managment have expressed.

          Again – this issue is not about the budget. It's about the attitudes of senior management towards patients and their representatives.

    • Barfly 5.2

      Economic rationing of expensive treatments has always and will always happen it sucks to be on the wrong end of it but there is no unlimited budget nor will there ever be.

  5. Adrian 6

    Tragic as it may be but a lot of "new " drugs do not have an efficacy that much better than existing ones that Pharmac funds but what they do have is a solid P.R. campaign behind them funded by big pharmaceutical companies to push their minor advantages allied to the astronomical costs associated with them. Maybe 10 alliterations of development down the road certain drugs will have an efficacy that makes them worth the money but the drug companies don't want to wait that long to cash in. It sounds like a scam but what can we do about it ?.

    • miravox 6.1

      The pharmac report gave options in terms of process. Eric Crampton (I know its the NZ Initiative, but they may have a point here) has focussed on Medsafe processes to speed up getting meds that work approved.

      Drug regulatory authorities do a lot of work on how well they're doing in terms of getting meds that are value for money, including Pharmac. It just appears that some countries do this better than others in terms of both drug selection and the time it takes to do that. NZ ranks low in approving new meds.

      Also what's the definition of "worth the money"? – and to who? obviously if an expensive new med does the same job as an exisitng med, the chance of it being funded should be pretty low, but on the other hand, is the system siloed? e.g. an expensive drug may enable people to live more independently and/or be more economically active, but if focussing on cost and efficacy within the health system, this is not necessarily incorporated into evaluation of efficacy.

  6. Grey Area 8

    Is anyone having issues on a mobile? I can post a new message but can't reply. Opera and Chrome on Android – same result.

    I guess it’s related to the banner message about a mobile theme” I’ve just noticed?

  7. observer 10

    This lie promise will only last a few more days, so bookmark it …

    From Luxon's press conference today –

    "What we are going to do is make sure we deliver income tax relief for lower [and] middle-income New Zealanders exactly as we went to the campaign with and that's what we are going to do," Luxon said.

    But when asked again about implementing the foreign buyers ban Luxon repeated himself.

    "Again, we are going to deliver income tax relief to lower, middle-income workers because that's what's important," Luxon replied.

    When asked for a third time, Luxon sounded like a broken record.

    "What I can gladly guarantee is that we're going to deliver tax relief for lower, middle-income New Zealanders exactly as we talked about," he said.

    (italics added)

    Christopher Luxon stands by tax relief but won't guarantee foreign buyers ban | Newshub

  8. joe90 12

    Art and Stan knew.

  9. joe90 13

    Superstitious bronze agers.

    .sharethis sharing button

    I had written an article about the belief among a large section of the Palestinians that the second half of the eight decade of the State of Israel would be the beginning of the end, but it became clear to me that the Israelis also hold, in one way or another, this belief, especially the leaders of the Israeli political elite who take this belief/obsession seriously.

    Perhaps the first one who spoke in this sense and invoked it from among the prime ministers of Israel was Benjamin Netanyahu, who claimed that his stay as the Prime Minister is the only guarantee for Israel’s continuity after its eighth decade and exceeding a century, unlike the history of the Jews who did not have a State that lasted more than eight decades. Then, the speech of Naftali Bennett, the current Prime Minister of Israel, in his 2020 election campaign, in which he echoed the same sentiments and urged Jewish voters to stand behind the Blue and White coalition that he leads, in order to surmount the eighth decade safely and ensure the continuation of the State of Israel after its eightieth year. Ehud Barak, the former Prime Minister of Israel, writes to confirm the same complex, the complex of fear for survival. It is important to keep in mind that the people mentioned are not just some rabbis who believe in religious superstitions that have no connection to reality but, rather, they are the political leaders of Israel.

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220512-the-curse-of-the-eighth-decade-and-the-end-of-israel/

    https://mizrachi.org/hamizrachi/the-curse-of-the-eighth-decade/

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  • Don’t accept Human Rights Commission reading of data on Treaty partnership – read the survey fin...
    Wellington is braced for a “massive impact’ from the new government’s cutting public service jobs, The Post somewhat grimly reported today. Expectations of an economic and social jolt are based on the National-Act coalition agreement to cut public service numbers in each government agency in a cost-trimming exercise  “informed by” head ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • The stupidest of stupid reasons
    One of the threats in the National - ACT - NZ First coalition agreements was to extend the term of Parliament to four years, reducing our opportunities to throw a bad government out. The justification? Apparently, the government thinks "elections are expensive". This is the stupidest of stupid reasons for ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • A website bereft of buzz
    Buzz from the Beehive The new government was being  sworn in, at time of writing , and when Point of Order checked the Beehive website for the latest ministerial statements and re-visit some of the old ones we drew a blank. We found ….  Nowt. Nothing. Zilch. Not a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • MICHAEL BASSETT: A new Ministry – at last
    Michael Bassett writes – Like most people, I was getting heartily sick of all the time being wasted over the coalition negotiations. During the first three weeks Winston grinned like a Cheshire cat, certain he’d be needed; Chris Luxon wasted time in lifting the phone to Winston ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Luxon's Breakfast.
    The Prime Minister elect had his silver fern badge on. He wore it to remind viewers he was supporting New Zealand, that was his team. Despite the fact it made him look like a concierge, or a welcomer in a Koru lounge. Anna Burns-Francis, the Breakfast presenter, asked if he ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • LINDSAY MITCHELL:  Oranga Tamariki faces major upheaval under coalition agreement
     Lindsay Mitchell writes – A hugely significant gain for ACT is somewhat camouflaged by legislative jargon. Under the heading ‘Oranga Tamariki’ ACT’s coalition agreement contains the following item:   Remove Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 According to Oranga Tamariki:     “Section ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • BRIAN EASTON:  Peters as Minister
    A previous column looked at Winston Peters biographically. This one takes a closer look at his record as a minister, especially his policy record. Brian Easton writes – 1990-1991: Minister of Māori Affairs. Few remember Ka Awatea as a major document on the future of Māori policy; there is ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Cathrine Dyer's guide to watching COP 28 from the bottom of a warming planet
    Is COP28 largely smoke and mirrors and a plan so cunning, you could pin a tail on it and call it a weasel? Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: COP28 kicks off on November 30 and up for negotiation are issues like the role of fossil fuels in the energy transition, contributions to ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Top 10 news links at 10 am for Monday, Nov 27
    PM Elect Christopher Luxon was challenged this morning on whether he would sack Adrian Orr and Andrew Coster.TL;DR: Here’s my pick of top 10 news links elsewhere at 10 am on Monday November 27, including:Signs councils are putting planning and capital spending on hold, given a lack of clear guidance ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the new government’s policies of yesteryear
    This column expands on a Werewolf column published by Scoop on Friday Routinely, Winston Peters is described as the kingmaker who gets to decide when the centre right or the centre-left has a turn at running this country. He also plays a less heralded but equally important role as the ...
    4 days ago
  • The New Government’s Agreements
    Last Friday, almost six weeks after election day, National finally came to an agreement with ACT and NZ First to form a government. They also released the agreements between each party and looking through them, here are the things I thought were the most interesting (and often concerning) from the. ...
    4 days ago
  • How many smokers will die to fund the tax cuts?
    Maori and Pasifika smoking rates are already over twice the ‘all adult’ rate. Now the revenue that generates will be used to fund National’s tax cuts. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The devil is always in the detail and it emerged over the weekend from the guts of the policy agreements National ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • How the culture will change in the Beehive
    Perhaps the biggest change that will come to the Beehive as the new government settles in will be a fundamental culture change. The era of endless consultation will be over. This looks like a government that knows what it wants to do, and that means it knows what outcomes ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • No More Winnie Blues.
    So what do you think of the coalition’s decision to cancel Smokefree measures intended to stop young people, including an over representation of Māori, from taking up smoking? Enabling them to use the tax revenue to give other people a tax cut?David Cormack summed it up well:It seems not only ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • 2023 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #47
    A chronological listing of news and opinion articles posted on the Skeptical Science  Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Nov 19, 2023 thru Sat, Nov 25, 2023.  Story of the Week World stands on frontline of disaster at Cop28, says UN climate chief  Exclusive: Simon Stiell says leaders must ‘stop ...
    5 days ago
  • Some of it is mad, some of it is bad and some of it is clearly the work of people who are dangerous ...
    On announcement morning my mate texted:Typical of this cut-price, fake-deal government to announce itself on Black Friday.What a deal. We lose Kim Hill, we gain an empty, jargonising prime minister, a belligerent conspiracist, and a heartless Ayn Rand fanboy. One door closes, another gets slammed repeatedly in your face.It seems pretty ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • “Revolution” is the threat as the Māori Party smarts at coalition government’s Treaty directi...
    Buzz from the Beehive Having found no fresh announcements on the government’s official website, Point of Order turned today to Scoop’s Latest Parliament Headlines  for its buzz. This provided us with evidence that the Māori Party has been soured by the the coalition agreement announced yesterday by the new PM. “Soured” ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • The Good, the Bad, and the even Worse.
    Yesterday the trio that will lead our country unveiled their vision for New Zealand.Seymour looking surprisingly statesmanlike, refusing to rise to barbs about his previous comments on Winston Peters. Almost as if they had just been slapstick for the crowd.Winston was mostly focussed on settling scores with the media, making ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • When it Comes to Palestine – Free Speech is Under Threat
    Hi,Thanks for getting amongst Mister Organ on digital — thanks to you, we hit the #1 doc spot on iTunes this week. This response goes a long way to helping us break even.I feel good about that. Other things — not so much.New Zealand finally has a new government, and ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • Thank you Captain Luxon. Was that a landing, or were we shot down?
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Also in More Than A FeildingFriday The unboxing And so this is Friday and what have we gone and done to ourselves?In the same way that a Christmas present can look lovely under the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • Cans of Worms.
    “And there’ll be no shortage of ‘events’ to test Luxon’s political skills. David Seymour wants a referendum on the Treaty. Winston wants a Royal Commission of Inquiry into Labour’s handling of the Covid crisis. Talk about cans of worms!”LAURIE AND LES were very fond of their local. It was nothing ...
    6 days ago
  • Disinformation campaigns are undermining democracy. Here’s how we can fight back
    This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article. Misinformation is debated everywhere and has justifiably sparked concerns. It can polarise the public, reduce health-protective behaviours such as mask wearing and vaccination, and erode trust in science. Much of misinformation is spread not ...
    6 days ago
  • Peters as Minister
    A previous column looked at Winston Peters biographically. This one takes a closer look at his record as a minister, especially his policy record.1990-1991: Minister of Māori Affairs. Few remember Ka Awatea as a major document on the future of Māori policy; there is not even an entry in Wikipedia. ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    7 days ago
  • The New Government: 2023 Edition
    So New Zealand has a brand-spanking new right-wing government. Not just any new government either. A formal majority coalition, of the sort last seen in 1996-1998 (our governmental arrangements for the past quarter of a century have been varying flavours of minority coalition or single-party minority, with great emphasis ...
    7 days ago
  • The unboxing
    And so this is Friday and what have we gone and done to ourselves?In the same way that a Christmas present can look lovely under the tree with its gold ribbon but can turn out to be nothing more than a big box holding a voucher for socks, so it ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • A cruel, vicious, nasty government
    So, after weeks of negotiations, we finally have a government, with a three-party cabinet and a time-sharing deputy PM arrangement. Newsroom's Marc Daalder has put the various coalition documents online, and I've been reading through them. A few things stand out: Luxon doesn't want to do any work, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hurrah – we have a new government (National, ACT and New Zealand First commit “to deliver for al...
    Buzz from the Beehive Sorry, there has been  no fresh news on the government’s official website since the caretaker trade minister’s press statement about the European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement. But the capital is abuzz with news – and media comment is quickly flowing – after ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago
  • Christopher Luxon – NZ PM #42.
    Nothing says strong and stable like having your government announcement delayed by a day because one of your deputies wants to remind everyone, but mostly you, who wears the trousers. It was all a bit embarrassing yesterday with the parties descending on Wellington before pulling out of proceedings. There are ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Coalition Government details policies & ministers
    Winston Peters will be Deputy PM for the first half of the Coalition Government’s three-year term, with David Seymour being Deputy PM for the second half. Photo montage by Lynn Grieveson for The KākāTL;DR: PM-Elect Christopher Luxon has announced the formation of a joint National-ACT-NZ First coalition Government with a ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • “Old Coat” by Peter, Paul & Mary.
     THERE ARE SOME SONGS that seem to come from a place that is at once in and out of the world. Written by men and women who, for a brief moment, are granted access to that strange, collective compendium of human experience that comes from, and belongs to, all the ...
    1 week ago

  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Further humanitarian support for Gaza, the West Bank and Israel
    The Government is contributing a further $5 million to support the response to urgent humanitarian needs in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel, bringing New Zealand’s total contribution to the humanitarian response so far to $10 million. “New Zealand is deeply saddened by the loss of civilian life and the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

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