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Open mike 11/02/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 11th, 2013 - 86 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…


86 comments on “Open mike 11/02/2013”

  1. AsleepWhileWalking 1

    If he likes it so much, why doesn’t he move there?

    • David H 1.1

      Because we are not that lucky. Anyway he lives Hawaii. He only visits NZ to screw up the economy a little more.

      • Lanthanide 1.1.1

        51st state?

      • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 1.1.2

        Aussies know for sure now that NZs are a bunch of pussies and they can pinch all our food out of our bowls while we look on. They have got some mongrel in them that is of value to them in getting what they want. We have turned into a bunch of lapdogs, who will lick them to death with just a pat on the head from Oz.

        And Shonkey has agreed to take some of their embarrassing domestic political stress off the Oz government and the international condemnation of them on refugee and human rights standards. Yet we have NZ refugees in Oz in hardship, facing ever decreasing living standards and not able to afford a ticket home. And people living and working there that they want to deny modern support to – treating us like a third world country. This is while they scoop up profits from our casino like economy. Not so different from the poor Africans going away to another African country to work in the rich white man’s mines.

        A tough politician could have applied some leverage. ‘Well we could think about doing this, it has merit, but first we are very concerned to get your treatment of NZs to match ours to Aussies.’ Instead we make travel easier, when we are so important as frequent tourists to Oz, and vice versa. We could talk about introducing visas – they wouldn’t like that – but it would protect against this strawman argument that most of their expenses in the social welfare field are imported from feckless, free-moving NZs.

  2. Jenny 2

    The chickens come home to roost.

    Former spy demands $550,000 from the police.


    My advice to the police: Pay up

    The reason: This spy from all accounts, was not just a spy, he was also an agent provocateur.

    There is hard evidence that Rob Gilchrist was actively encouraging people to take illegal, and possibly even extreme actions, so that he could report them to his paymasters.

    The sort of actions that the police, would use to justify their continuing and repeated requests to parliamentarians over the years for more and greater police powers and weapons rights especially against protesters. Which when taken in total amount to an aggressive campaign by politically motivated senior police commanders against this country’s civil liberties and the right to protest.

    To discredit and cripple this county’s proud history of effective protest against injustice, was in effect what Rob Gilchrist was being paid for

    The Rob Gilchrist case has implications for a number of ongoing appeal cases against police actions. Not least, the appeal hearings around the so called police Urewera Terror Raids, where it is suspected that agent provocateurs were also used. Possibly even Gilchrist himself.

    This is one can of worms that the police definitely won’t want opened.

    My bet; This news report is all we will hear on this matter. And the police will make an out of court settlement to buy Gilchrist’s silence.

    • Rosie 2.1

      Hmm, well perhaps his conscience is manifesting as depression.

      He may receive compensation but there will be no compensation for Rochelle Rees (and many other with less personal ties) who was used and betrayed for the legitimate campaigning work she did. Rob Gilchrist needs to consider the damage he did and if he does gets paid out maybe he can use some of that cash and begin to make amends.He’s not the only who suffered. He knew full well what he was doing and what the consequences would be.

      • Michael Morrrris 2.1.1

        I can forgive Gilchrist for being a spy. What I find it hard to forgive him for is the hurt and dissent he spread throughout the movement, through spreading lies, rumours and destructive criticism. This polarised much of the Animal Rights movement and made it an unpleasant place to work. Part of the responsiblity for this we must take for ourselves; but if Gilchrist had not been present I think we would have been much more cooperative and productive.

        BTW: I do know how to spell my name. I also know about Google searches.

        It was quite obvious Gilchrist enjoyed his role. It was like something out of a Boys Own comic to him. It ws also obvious to those of us in Wellington that he was a sleaze. I don’t know why it took his ex-girlfriend so long to work that out. I did not like him much but I never thought he was a spy, because he seemed to have the trust of experienced activists.

        While I share the disdain of other posters about the way the police paid useful stooges like Gilchrist to infiltrate protest groups, I have no sympathy for Gilchrist trying to extract money from them. He knew what he was doing, and he chose to be a spy.

        On the other hand, it is always good when opponents turn on each other. It means they are spending their resources on internecine conflict instead of on spying.

        • Rosie

          Kia Ora Michael. I hope that the experience of having a traitor in your midst hasn’t deterred you, or made you feel reluctant or apprehensive to continue the work you do. Big Ups.

    • Treetop 2.2

      Just go and ask Patrick O’Brien, (agent provocateur) how the cops conceal covert operations. It is five years since O’Brien wrote to Chief Justice Elias with his perjury confession and NOTHING has been done by the police to assist O’Brien.

      As long as the police think people like O’Brien and Gilchrist cannot touch them the injustice continues for them.

      I would like to know how many undercover cops in the 70s, 80s, 90s are still on ACC due to mental injury?

      (I do know that the cops can sue for exemplary damages, possibly this is what Gilchrist has done).

      It is 36 years this month since Moyle resigned from parliament and the full police evidence is still in lock up. In 1976 it was ordered to be locked away for 25 years. The cops have a lot to answer for due to decades of lies about me.

      • Treetop 2.2.1

        Exemplary damages
        “Sometimes called punitive damages, exemplary damages are not awarded as compensation for the injured person but instead to reform or deter the person who caused the injury, and others, from following the same course of action that caused the injury.”


        This is one of the few ways that you can get some justice in being abused/mentally injured/violated by covert police operations.

      • millsy 2.2.2

        The powers that be are probably not going to open that little can of worms. They know that if they put O’Brien up on the stand or whatever, all sorts of crap is going to come out.

        • Treetop

          Too many high ranking gutless wonders in the NZ Police.

          Even though I come across as anti cops I am anti the Office of the Commissioner of Police; the higher you go in the job the more corrupt I find them to be.

          Did you read O’ Brien’s letter to the Queen?

    • You see folks – you can get people who infiltrate activist groups – pretending to be activists – who are actually working for the Police?


      In my considered view – if you get people who come from nowhere, with no previous proven track record as activists – who make a beeline for controlling the activist group’s message, or means of getting the activist group’s message out (by controlling the administration of facebook pages /websites etc) BEWARE!!!

      Especially if one of their main functions is to spread misinformation, cause in-fighting, and try to discredit those who are actually being effective.

      (This has happened to me – to an unprecedented degree – since August 2012…..)

      The commonsense thing to – is google their name and see what comes up?

      Through ‘Whois’ – you can find out who controls various websites.

      Guess it’s called ‘due diligence’ – as it were?

      You may be interested in this?


      Kind regards,

      Penny Bright

    • Rogue Trooper 2.4

      what is dreadful- the infiltration and spying upon welfare and poverty activism (leave the door right open).

    • Murray Olsen 2.5

      If anyone should receive payment, it should be the organisations the scumbag infiltrated and spied on. He deserves less than nothing.

    • Jenny 2.6

      It seems that the police agent provocateur who is blackmailing the police for half a million dollars, Rob Gilchrist. Was sending his handlers intimate photos of the activists he was spying on, accompanied with humiliating sexist comments. Photos heavy with the potential for blackmail.

      In the same sordid vein the police agent after gaining their confidence, got some of the activists he was spying on to pose with weapons, weapons supplied by him from an alleged personal arsenal he maintained with the full knowledge of the police.

      This raises the question.

      If Gilchrist’s cover hadn’t have been blown:

      What would have become of these pictures?

      Would those who appeared in them have been caught up in the so called police terror raids?

      Of course the big question is, will Gilchrist’s police police handlers give in to their paid blackmailer, who has now turned on them, to cover up their sordid acquiring of staged evidence of leftist terrorists with guns, or will it come before a court?

      My money is still, on the police paying out.

      Though if I was Rob Gilchrist I would be worried that our police commanders might feel threatened and desperate enough to resort to more tried and true methods of ensuring their blackmailers silence.

      Whatever outcome, results. Either way, I expect that we will never hear from Rob Gilchrist again.

      Rob Gilchrist also had photographs on his computer he had taken of the previously mentioned 16 year old girl, and another 16 year old female activist, taken seperately, with them posing with his guns. This included shots of one of the said girls posing with one of Rob’s guns pointed to her head, and in her mouth. The photographs showed these girls in various outfits, including full camoflague, and some of one of them with a towel in her hair, clearly having just got out of the shower.

      A rather large pornography collection with some disturbing videos and images was also present on Rob Gilchrist’s computer.

      Rochelle Rees

      • Jenny 2.6.1

        Whether Rob Gilchrist winds up in a deck chair in the South of France, or in concrete gumboots in the Waitemata. I suppose, is one of those things that we will probably never know.

        I can’t wait for the screen play.

        • Jenny

          Of course every movie needs an ending, and as we will never know the end to this story. The screen writers will have to invent one.

          Personally I prefer a movie ending with the anti-hero, we all love to hate, ending up in a holdiday resort with all the money, far from the reach of his employers whom he double crossed.

          • More informed than you know

            He was doing his job – the one the POLICE employed him to do. You are all entitled to your opinions and make no mistake I have my own but remember that he has family and a teenage daughter that can read these forums. He’s not innocent by any stretch of the imagination and you all seem to think you are such victims – the only victim here is the young girl who has to grow up with this and try to live her life. What you post will be here forever, think before you say things that might cause another innocent person to suffer.

            Let the tirade begin …

            • Jenny

              ….but remember that he has family and a teenage daughter that can read these forums. He’s not innocent by any stretch of the imagination and you all seem to think you are such victims – the only victim here is the young girl

              More informed than you know

              So who is playing the victim here, again?

              When the powerful and corrupt start playing the victim, everyone else better get out of the way.

              • Jenny

                The merciless ask for mercy

                While Mityk asks us to consider the family of Rob Gilchrist, he makes no mention of the families of those Rob Gilchrist and his handlers manipulated, humiliated and betrayed.

                The one thing I like about these sites is the anonymity that sometimes tempts those who speak for the authorities and the police to occasionally make an anonymous comment to justify and defend at least in their own minds their behavior.

                Whether they are police themselves doesn’t really matter they speak in that unmistakable voice that reveals that they they think that the powerful and the authorities must always be obeyed.

                The voice of More informed than you know has that feel.

                So to you Mityk keep coming back. While I find your views not exactly refreshing, I think that it is worthwhile that you put them up. You show that you are a bit of the rebel yourself by commenting here. Is that scary for you? I hope so.

        • lprent

          So who’d play rocky?

  3. KhandallaViper 3

    John Tamihere will attempt to stack the Waitakere Brances and fix the selection convention.

    “While the chance of a tilt at the “train wreck” Maori Party in the Tamaki Makaurau Maori seat appeals, it seems more likely Tamihere will persuade Labour Maori members to switch electoral rolls into the Waitakere seat, giving him enough clout to win selection and, he hopes, beat Bennett.”

    Stop him and the fools inside Labour who are helping him.


    • tc 3.1

      JT’s saddled back up as he’s in sweet with the mallarfia, these are the fools running Labour into the minor party ranks.

      • vto 3.1.1

        I love the way poor old Tamihere cries “what’s the matter with telling the truth?”…..

        It is the clearest sign yet of his lack of self-awareness, and hence awareness of others, that he has to ask what the problem is that people have with him.

        quite the clueless chappie. should stick to his knitting

        • Andre

          Maybe mr T should start a united bigot party . As the manifesto of this party would be honest.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2

        IMO, the faster Labour becomes a minor party the better.

    • karol 3.2

      Just heard Williams and Hooton talking up Tamihere on the Nine-to-Noon slot. Hooton reckons JT has Shearer’s backing. If that is true, I will not refrain from being highly critical of Team Shearer & JT. It is a slap in the face to women and LGBT people. Disgraceful.

      • Elizabeth Bourchier Real Labour 3.2.1

        Surely you not Surprised Karol?

        Tamihere’s application to the NZ Council was strongly pushed by conservatives in the party.

        • karol

          Not really, Elizabeth. But I am disgusted. I voted against Tamihere as mayor for Waitakere, and I had thankfully thought we’d seen the end of him. But, re-the hatin’ on the left thread: I already am unhappy with the right wing leadership of our potential Labour government – if Labour MPs want us to stop criticising them, they are not giving me any reason to not criticise them. The caucus is blokey enough already.

      • Anne 3.2.2

        Hooton reckons JT has Shearer’s backing.

        Not saying there isn’t an element of truth in it, but beware anything Hooton says. It’s likely at best to be ‘out of context’ or misrepresented altogether.

  4. Rosie 5

    Sorry, off topic here but can someone please refresh my memory

    What is the name of the govt agency you report a scam too?

    Some time ago I reported a rash of phone calls I received from someone saying there was something wrong with my computer and that they could fix it for me. Smelt fishy so reported it and it did turn out to be a scam, based in India. I just can’t remember who I reported it to now.

    This time I have received emails from a stack of people known to me – some of whom I’ve had nothing to do with for up to seven years. Some are from ex workmates, one is from an old landlord and there a few from businesses I have dealt with. I find it hard to beleive that some of these people would have fallen for such a con “City Mom earns $6,795…etc”. Looks like a dodgy pyramid sceme. It doesn’t add up that some of the smarter people on the list would be involved.

    I checked Anthony’s article yesterday in case other commenters had experienced weirdness. Looks like they had, but not of this sort.

    • karol 5.1

      I had a load of those “there’s a problem with your computer” phone calls last year. I complained to my phone provider who said I needed to record the time of each call several times. That became too much hassle as my usual response was to stop answering and let the voice-mail take all calls to be sure it was someone I wanted to talk to. The scammers didn’t leave messages.

      • Rosie 5.1.1

        Hi Karol. The scam you mention was apparently widespread through out NZ. A few weeks after I reported it to what ever govt agency that I did I heard about it on the news. They must have received alot of complaints about it. Unfortunately hundreds of people got suckered in and were parted from their money.

        • ianmac

          Today I received an email apparently from my lawyer linking to a get rich scheme. I phoned my lawyer who hooted at the scheme and wished he had one that worked.
          It was a scam and nothing to do with my law man.

          • Rosie

            Thanks ianmac. Probably the same scam. I was just about to contact one of the senders of these emails but was apprehensive about insulting their intelligence. I will go ahead and contact the commerce commission because we are a nation of suckers and I’m sad to say I know folks that will think its for real and loose money. They need to be warned. If its the same scam it requests you to send money as an “admin fee”.

    • Copperhead 5.2

      Commerce Commission is ya answer.

      • Rosie 5.2.1

        Duh! Of course! Cheers Copperhead.

        • veutoviper

          Hi Rosie

          Here is the link to Scamwatch for reporting scams and finding out about them


          Re the phone calls saying your computer has a problem, this is a worldwide one that has been going for years. They are virtually impossible for phone companies etc to trace but most are based in India

          I had almost daily calls for a year and still get the occasional one.

          . Scamwatch and other agencies say to simply hang up. I use them as an opportunity to air all my frustrations and let off a string of profanity that would make a sailor blush. A cheap whistle from a $2 shop blown down the phone also works wonders ….

          Re the emails, Xtra has had a problem over the last few days that may be related.


          • Rosie

            Hi veutoviper. Thanks for that info. As it happens I’ve been to the consumer affairs website which then reffered on to Netsafe. Spoke with a person there who was well aware of the content of the email. They had lots of complaints.I have just read this article


            and have seen that you have linked an article about the same issue. Mystery solved.

            Like your whistle idea………………

          • Watching

            Not a great idea veutoviper “A cheap whistle from a $2 shop blown down the phone also works wonders ….”

            They already have your number.

            You have to ask yourself ‘what could happen next”. Most scam callers will move onto the next call (done automatically for them), but one individual with a burst eardrum could organise a number of random 3am calls to you as a repayment.

            They have you number as starting point you have nothing. Be careful.

            Try this

            Them – their speech on a virus on my PC
            Me – what computer
            Them – your PC has a virus
            Me – I don’t have a PC/What is a Microsoft computer etc or some bland reply
            Them – hang up
            Me – smile on my face

            Them – can I speak to XYZ
            Me – why do you want to speak to XYZ
            Them – about a virus on their PC
            Me – XYZ is 4 years old
            Them – hang up
            Me – smile on my face – I win

            • Rhinocrates

              Had a few myself, get one every couple of weeks.

              I suppose you could have some fun stringing them along. “You’re right! I’ve an HAL 9000 and it keeps telling me that the AE35 antenna unit is about to fail – and then when I try to shut it down, it sings ‘Daisy’!”

              I do have sympathy for the people making the calls actually – they’re poor people whose work in a call centre is their only – and very meagre – source of income.

              The first rule of phone communications from any large organisation is that the person speaking to you is not the one to blame. They’re punch-clock villains at worst.


              (Warning: Tvtropes will consume your life.)

              Had a talk with a person at the WINZ call centre this morning. Ages spent waiting through the muzak and then a very nice, competent person answers. Much as I hate WINZ and what it represents, I haven’t had a bad experience with anyone working for it in decades. Of course I’m never going to meet Paula Bennett and David Shearer, despite his threat in the last Shearer Sayszzzzzzz, is never going to drop by for a chat (lucky for them).

              Basic rules:

              The people phishing are ordinary people in shitty positions. Hating them is a waste of energy. You’ll never get to speak to the real villains, so just brush them off. I’ve heard about people who devote incredible amounts of energy to stringing them along, expressing interest and staging weird accidents in the background and so on, but really, these aren’t the people to blame, so you’re not even subverting the system. Don’t waste your time.

              If anyone wants personal information, then they’ll do it by verifiable means, so that you can query and follow up. Never reply online via email if personal information is asked for. If they claim to be your ISP and you are genuinely concerned, then contact them by another, already-known channel. Nothing will get shut down immediately, so don’t worry.

              If something arrives in the mail or by any means – and I’ve seen many in multiple media, that the more official it looks, the more likely it is to be a hoax. By that I mean, look to see if they’re trying too hard. Signs of this are:

              – Claims that if you don’t act, the consequences are catastrophic.

              – You could win something amazing if you act promptly. Currently it’s iPads.

              – Lots of things that look like seals and fancy borders. You don’t have to waste energy looking up these supposed organisations and offices that support the scammer – the very fact that they start listing them is a giveaway. Moreover, real modern organisations use modern graphic design, so patterns that look “official” because they’re old-fashioned are obvious frauds.

              – There are assurances of veracity all over the place and funny code numbers and barcodes in the margins that, surely, must mean something, right?

              They’re just like Reader’s Digest. That could be a punchline, but actually it’s what’s called “inertia marketing”. You’re made an offer, and you get a promise or maybe even a reward… but always you will be told that there’s MUCH more to come and you have to proceed to the next stage… rather like Scientology too, come to think of it.

              On the other hand, “It’s just a trifle, there’s no great risk, and if I lose, it’s not much… this is kinda fun… oh look, maybe I could be in the draw to win more if I register… OK, I’ve started filling out the form, so I might as well continue.”

              No. Instead…

              You’ll never speak to Doctor Evil, so don’t waste energy thinking that you are.

              If they want you to act immediately, then you can be 100% certain that it’s a scam. If there’s a competition, then there’s plenty of time to enter and there’ll be a massive publicity campaign. If you’re behind in your power bill, then you will get a warning letter and a bigger bill next time if you don’t pay. They want you to continue subscribing.

              Real organisations want your money in regular monthly payments for a continuing service, so they will do their very best not to scare or threaten you. They’ll be bastards in other ways.

              No one legitimate will ask for security-related information that they should already have and your bank account/password number is not proof of your identity, so they shouldn’t ask for it.

              The moment someone says “There’s more, if…” shut up, hang up, log off.

              If there’s a special offer, then it’s part of a service you’re already subscribing to. If it looks that way, then it will be advertised through other channels as well.

              The more “official” it looks, the less official it is.

              Most of all, the principal rule:

              If it looks to good to be true, then it is.

              Or, unleash your inner Mustrum Ridcully: if someone’s jabbering excitedly in your ear, then ignore them. If they go away after a few minutes, then it wasn’t important. If they’re still there, turn around and tell them to deal with it.

              Yes, most people here know all this, but just in case… really, some of the emails I’ve had have really worried me for a while until I’ve researched them a bit.

              Actually, I’ve just described modern capitalism…

              • Rosie

                Thanks watcher for the comment re the whistle and bursting someones eardrum. And Thanks Rhinocrates for your thoughtful communications. Incidentially I had wondered at the time last year when I got the “your PC is broken but I can fix it for you” call, and knowing it was a scam, who exactly makes the phone call.Is it the group of scammers themselves or do they hire workers to undertake the task? If I figure its workers I’d never vent on them.

                I’m happy to report scams. I know some really daft people who are easily suckered and would fall for the free ipad! Win a holiday house! make $1000 a day! Free wrinkle treatment! scams, so need to be warned via a media release from consumer affairs etc.

                Yesterdays one did have me scratching my head though as it was from an ex landlord who does do weird things in order to obtain money (Then she lost it all at the beginning of the recession and had to sell the house we were living in dammit)However once a pile of the same emails turned up first thing this morning, from folks that would know better I clicked something was up.

                All resolved now and the politzi know about it.

                • veutoviper

                  Just to set the record straight, I realise that the people making the calls are just poor workers trying to make a living. The only times I have used the whistle has been when (a) I have asked the worker to put me onto their supervisor; (b) I have warned the supervisor that I know it is a scam etc etc and what I am about to do and the possible consequences (eg to the eardrum).

                  As I said, I had almost daily calls for over a year. Sometimes I played them along; other times I hung up; other times they got the profanity treatment. Thankfully, the calls are now few and far between. However, reporting each time became out of the question; and nothing ever came of doing so anyway due to the size of the scam worldwide and the difficulty for the agencies etc to trace the calls.

            • QoT

              The best reason I’ve encountered so far for not taking Mr QoT’s surname?

              Telemarketer: Could I speak to Mrs Hislastname?

              Me: I’m sorry, there’s no Mrs Hislastname at this address.

              It’s amazing how many of them will end the call themselves at that point. Non-normative relationships must confuse their systems too much.

              • lprent

                You should see the hilarity that arises at our household when people call and ask for Lyn(n). That really confuses the hell out of many callers. It usually takes a bit of questioning by us to find out which person they’re after. The conversations usually stay on the correct path after that.

                But we don’t get telemarketers. I dropped off the white pages about 20 years ago for a unlisted number and these days I’m VOIP’ing anyway. So this is usually people calling to speak to Lyn. Everyone who knows me knows that I don’t answer unknown phone numbers because talking to people does nasty things to the coding part of my brain.

    • David H 5.3

      You could try these Rosie


      Good Luck
      Oh and if I get the “you have a virus” people on the phone I suddenly forget all I know about computers and run them around for hours if I am bored.
      Or you could tell them you are running Ubuntu.

      The phone calls have stopped..

  5. vto 6


    New Zealanders are getting royally shafted up the arse by this government. From the rear until red-raw. A few smacks across the back of the head for good measure and then shoved into the ditch, laughing with their ugly mates .

    This government is the most mean, nasty and ugly government we have ever suffered. They are evil, they are liars and they smack the less fortunate around the head every week.

    They deserve nothing but scorn and spittle.

  6. Morrissey 7

    Another bad day at the office for Rachel Smalley
    TV3 Firstline, Monday 11 February 2013

    This morning after the 7 A.M. news, Rachel Smalley interviewed Gary Poole of the Refugee Council. It soon became clear that he was very upset by her indolent and thoughtless repetition of government talking points. He was especially incensed by Smalley’s continual repetition of the nonsensical claim that the paltry number of refugees taken by New Zealand and Australia constituted a problem. Turkey, he pointed out, took more than two hundred thousand refugees last year.

    At the end of the interview, Gary Poole turned his back on Smalley. He could not have expressed his contempt for her any more plainly.

    Visibly shaken, Smalley turned to Patrick Gower who, disappointingly, also repeated the cruel government line that refugees are “queue-jumping”.

      • Morrissey 7.1.1

        Thanks for that, Andre. Check the link at about the 3:20 mark; Smalley foolishly quotes talkback radio bigotry as if it’s somehow representative of public opinion, which clearly angers Mr. Poole. It’s about then that he loses all respect for her.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      We do have to consider how many people we can sustain.

    • karol 7.3

      I once had hopes for Smalley. But earlier today I unfollowed her from twitter. She tweets too much for my liking, and often not very edifying.

    • Tim 7.4

      Pleasing to see that there are people now beginning to discuss this issue!
      Damn sad to see the same language noe being used here too (“illegals”, “queue jumpers”, and so on).

      When Key & Co held that little ‘training episode’ a few months back in the event NZ might be flooded by asylum seekers, I’m sure he had it in his mind THEN that he was going to use it as a suckup/brownee point earning mission with OZ.

      Gillard’s never gotten over the High Court pointing out a few home truths over her proposed “Malaysian Solution”, nor has she got it in her to admit that she’s fucked up royally over asylum seekers.

      This dolt John Key is damaging NZ’s reputation internationally – if it weren’t for the fact we are just a pimple on the arse of Earth as far as our profile is concerned internationally, we’d already be a laughing stock. 100% pure, respect for our obligations under U.N treaties, egalitarian, our respect for human rights (especially with regard to the indigenous population and women)…..

      I’d call the guy evil IF it wasn’t for the fact that he’s just basically ignorant and simply driven by ego and what my mother would have described as be “a social climbing wanker”.

  7. bad12 8

    Helen Kelly of the CTU will today launch a campaign targeting a ‘living wage’ for all low paid workers in NZ,

    Here’s why the Slippery lead National Government runs a Depression economy with high numbers of unemployed creating novel means of whipping these unemployed out into the economy to seek work along with sickness and DPB beneficiaries,

    ”The labour market isn’t at the right point where i think unskilled workers could apply a lot of pressure,(for higher wages),because there’s still a lot of competition for those jobs”, unquote- Gail Pacheco AUT University Economist…

    • vto 8.1

      “”The labour market isn’t at the right point where i think unskilled workers could apply a lot of pressure,(for higher wages),because there’s still a lot of competition for those jobs”, unquote- Gail Pacheco AUT University Economist…”

      The base labour market should not be subject to competition for the simple reason that people are not commodities, like undies and cans of spaghetti.

      That this truth does not even enter the mind of people like Gail Pacheco speaks entirely to their shortcomings and debases the rest of their ideas.

      • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

        Gail is spot on though. Workers from the Philipines, from throughout South America, imported into NZ to work for sweet FA. Heavy government regulation of the labour market is the only way to go, precisely for the reasons you state: “The base labour market should not be subject to competition for the simple reason that people are not commodities, like undies and cans of spaghetti.”

        Again, something like the UBI could be used to put a floor up against the minimum wage.

      • aspasia 8.1.2

        Don’t shoot the messenger here, vto. A short quote in a newspaper piece describing how the market is currently operating is no basis for your disparaging comment about “people like Gail Pacheco.” As it happens, Gail is a leading member of the AUT Work Research Institute which is organising and sponsoring the two day symposium on precarious work being held this Thursday and Friday at AUT in compunction with the CTU, SFWU and First Union.

        • vto

          Ok, fair enough. As you say though “a short quote” out of context perhaps …

          The short quote does highlight the issue of commodification of human beings. Hey …. isn’t that what they used to with slavery? Advertise them like they were undies or cans of spaghetti? … Yes, they did.

    • millsy 8.2

      Saw those articles about the living wage in the Herald this morning.

      Note that Foodstuffs are turning their drivers into owner-drivers. I wonder if they’ll end up having to buy their gear from TradeMe like the VisionStream telecomms workers did. Stinks really. I wont be buying from New World/PakNSave again…

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1

        Foodstuffs proud to be 100% NZ owned

      • Rosie 8.2.2

        Foodstuffs try to outsource their work as much as they can. Instead of having employees stocking shelves they have armies of merchandisers do this for them. The merchandisers are contractors, not employees, of the supermarket supplier companies. Their role is to go instore take the order and return after the order has been shipped to unload and stack it. Merchandisers usually have to use their own vehicle and cell phone. From their pay they have to cover their own ACC, holiday pay, sick pay and tax. If they actually do this then often their pay works out as less than the minimum rate.

        Foodstuffs will favour companies who can provide a merchandiser for them, so suppliers are often forced to take on the cost of a merchandiser themselves, if they want to retain business with the chain. Its a win for the supermarket and a lose for the supplier and the worker. The worker loses the opportunity for secure work conditions and secure pay.

        All those specials we pick up at the supermarket? Those costs are absorbed by the supplier, not the supermarket.

        Progressive Enterprises also do business this way but for what I’ve wistnessed, it doesn’t seem to be as wide spread and entrenched as Foodstuff’s.

        • karol

          OK. Thanks. Time to switch my supermarket then, even though PnS is cheaper.

          • Rosie

            Hi Karol. It’s a tricky one. The practice of using merchandisers has been going on for over a decade now. I always try to support NZ owned business over foreign ones such as Progressive. At the same time Progessive has a collective agreement with acceptable pay scales and from what I’ve witnessed, albeit several years ago, one particular lower north island P&S has actively engaged in Union bashing and has tried to block workers from organising. And to swing back to another pro’s and con’s point. Foodstuffs do stock more NZ made product than Progressive, who import alot from Australian manufacturers.
            One of the reasons I shop at NW is so I can support NZ manufacturers. You can often buy good products from small suppliers that Progressive won’t look at because their distribution chanels and marketing doesn’t suit their purposes.
            Each NW store or P&S is owner-operated unlike Progressive who have store managers. You can get NW owners who are real bastards and those who really decent. Luckily the one I shop at dosn’t attempt to block Union membership and the owner is a good person in general. Its these kinds of stores that have the variety of locally made product. The bastard stores have the run of the mill type product unless they have particularly demanding customers they are trying to keep happy.

            • Tim

              I seem to remember that a few years ago the piss-weak Commerce Commission began, or was asked to begin an inquiry into the two chains’ anti-competitive behaviour. It’s good to know that PnS & NW (because they’re individually owned and just franchisees – if I understand you correctly), have the ability to carry the produce of small businesses/producers.
              At the time, what I understood might have been happening was that the 2 chains would purchase from small producers on condition that they were the ONLY buyer, and often also on condition that they had to supply a certain bulk amount – sometimes beyond their capability.
              (In the nature of what’s apparently known as a monopsony). It’d be a difficult thing to investigate – a small business/producer could become totally dependent on the whims of the big buggers and reluctant to bite the hand that fed them.
              I’m of the opinion that one of the worst barriers to ‘a market on a level playing field’ is the manner in which large businesses/corporates are allowed to vertically integrate.
              I’d rather (for example) see Telcos banned from also being ISPs.



    We STILL don’t want to sell what we own!

    In solidarity with the Wellington’s’SAY NO TO ASSET SALES’ rally:

    WHEN: Wednesday 13 February 2013 at 6pm,
    WHERE: Frank Kitts Park,

    The Auckland Switch Off Mercury Energy Group has organised the following:

    PROTEST (1)
    WHEN: Wednesday 13 February 2013, from 12 noon – 2pm
    WHERE: Outside Mighty River Power corporate office
    ANZ building, 23 – 29 Albert St, Auckland City

    MAP: https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mighty+river+power+auckland&fb=1&gl=nz&hq=mighty+river+power&hnear=0x6d0d47fb5a9ce6fb%3A0x500ef6143a29917%2CAuckland&cid=0%2C0%2C14661661492653781907&ei=Iu-EUM-0La6higfJyoG4Dg&ved=0CGYQ_BIwAQ

    PROTEST (2)
    WHEN: Wednesday 13 February 2013, from 3.30 – 5.30pm
    WHERE: Outside Mercury Energy office
    602 Great South Rd, Ellerslie. Auckland.




    Mercury Energy is 100% owned by Mighty River Power – the first of the electricity State Owned Enterprises up for ‘partial privatisation’ under the recently passed Mixed Ownership Model Act (for which this minority National Government – with only 59 out of 121 MPs – was dependent on the vote of John Banks – ACT MP for Epsom and Peter Dunne – United Future MP for Ohariu).

    We are calling on Maori and Pakeha – ALL New Zealanders, to UNITE and to STOP the sale of Mighty River Power by ‘switching off Mercury Energy’!

    One way to disrupt the Government’s asset sale agenda is to make it unattractive to investors.

    How can you help? The value of a company is based on potential profits. Losing customers makes Mighty River Power (Mercury Energy) an unappealing investment.

    Why switch off Mercury Energy?

    Mercury Energy is the main retail arm or Mighty River Power. Switching away from Mercury to another electricity company will cut the profit of Mighty River Power, and therefore its future share value..

    This was proven in 2008, when Contact Energy lost more than 40,000 customers in six months after they doubled its directors fees and increased power prices 12%. As a result their profit was cut in half!

    How will it help?

    Mighty River Power is the first publicly-owned State Asset the current minority National-led Government is putting up for sale


    Mighty River Power’s share value is driven mainly by the prospect of future profits. Any real threat to profits or share value will make Mighty River a risky investment, even before the share value actually drops. Investors won’t want to buy if there’s a risk the share value will fall instead of rise, as happened with Facebook shares recently.

    If the Government doesn’t get a high enough sale price, then there will be huge pressure for them to NOT sell Mighty River Power and it will raise serious questions about the ability of the Government to privatise or sell other publicly owned assets.

    The ‘Switch Off Mercury Energy’ campaign was officially launched in Auckland on July 14 with the following 3 resolutions.

    1: Calling for a nation-wide boycott of Mercury Energy, Tiny Mighty Power & Bosco.

    2: Declaring that Mighty River Power is an unethical investment.

    3. Getting people to make commitment NOT to buy Mighty River Power shares.

    This is YOUR CHANCE to say NO!

    Forwarded by Penny Bright (A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy group)


  9. Polish Pride 10

    Cameron Slater on Whaleoil with a post Charlie Stross on the Beige Dictatorship.
    This hits the nail on the head with a big part of what is wrong with the current system and the lack of any real democracy within it.


  10. Polish Pride 11

    Yet interestingly that piece was on Whaleoil and not here where I would have expected it.

  11. Jokerman 13

    oops, the above advertisement has actually been brought to you by HermeshUmerusManservantElisha 🙂

  12. Pete 14

    Should the Prime Minister be disclosing the contents of his intelligence reports to the media? I would imagine such information would have a security classification under the Cabinet Guide. (cf. NZSIS Security in the Government Sector and The Cabinet Manual.) And don’t forget, wrongful communication carries with it a maximum prison term of 3 years.

    • Murray Olsen 14.1

      He was just happy that he’d remembered a briefing and wanted to dispel rumours that his memory was failing after the DotCom GCSB fiasco. Either that or the intelligence agencies cooked something up to suit their political masters in Canberra and Washington.

    • Elizabeth Bourchier Real Labour 14.2

      He is more befuddled than ever, the tired little boy.
      He said that Australian Intelligence (?) reporter that a ship full of refugees was headed to NZ and that it had been detained or intercepted…..,
      There is a huge operational differance between the two scenarios!!!i know!!

      My intuition says he was lying. The images that each scenario concocts are very different.
      I’ve met men who habitually fib. Key is Fibbing!

  13. AAMC 15

    Steve Keen Kickstarter – Minsky

    Donate a few dollars to help advance the economic debate, and show mathematically the role Banks, Money and Private Debt play in our system.


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