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Open mike 11/03/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 11th, 2016 - 133 comments
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133 comments on “Open mike 11/03/2016 ”

  1. Skinny 1

    We have heard this kind of bullish bluster before from PM John Key in the North, with the result they got dusted up and thrashed by Peters in the blue ribbon seat of Northland.

    Yesterday Key wisely chose to leave their lead snake oil salesman in Wellington, knowing Joy Stick Steven is too much of a target for ridicule. And fortunately they did as a group called the Whangarei Street Theatre Company bushwhacked John Key, Joyce and National with a stinging little ditty.

    • vto 1.1

      From the piece seen on te tele, Key and co got worked in Whangarei ….

      another bit of flotsam fell off the old key tub

      • Skinny 1.1.1

        The happless Whangarei National MP Shane Reti came across as a bumbling light weight idiot in that news story. John Key would have been gutted Reti turned the question back on him. All he had to say was something like “I work very hard in my electorate and today’s celebration of 2 new museums is just one result of my work.” Anything rather than a woeful hot potato back to Key. In the end Key’s gate keeper girlfriend jumped in seeing the reporter had nailed a good hit already and time to kill it there before he landed another. So she acted quickly and said Let’s Go!, Key hit the high notes ” yeah see ya.”

        He wandered off spewing. I laughed as I saw him snap at Reti as they walked into the distance, Reti was walking along like a little lapdog, very amusing. The video is on hub but I can post on here from some reason? Really is worth a look.

        • vto 1.1.1.1

          yeah put it up if it shows key snapping at reti, hee hee

          • Skinny 1.1.1.1.1

            No that was out of camera shot. Thanks Sacha! Do you have the Dildo ditty video also? May as well have that for a laugh. I thought the lyrics were quite pleasant 🙂

          • vto 1.1.1.2.1

            ha ha politicians make me laugh… with despair ….

            one, Key’s tell-tale squeaky voice when under pressure, at the end … squeak squeak “see ya later see ya..” wave wave squeak

            two, Winston peters talking about the diplomatic corps when asked about Shane Jones standing for NZF… ha, more like Winston bjeikle-petersen every day

          • repateet 1.1.1.2.2

            National losing Whangarei?

            No-one will notice because we’ll still be in a state of euphoria from seeing the new flag flying above our 37 gold medal winners at the Olympics from 2016. Oh, and hell freezing over.

  2. Sacha 2

    Maps show the ironic effect of Auckland Councillors withdrawing intensification advice to the independent hearings panel: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/298650/housing-nz-pitches-highest-density-plan-for-auckland

    • Visubversa 2.1

      I wonder if the Eastern Suburbs branch of the National Party that were so vocal at the Council meeting on 24 February had actually looked at the HNZ, MBIE and other Government submissions to the Unitary Plan. It is far denser than the Council’s response. Room for a lot of political mischief there – but we won’t see Auckland 2040 leading the charge.

  3. Tautoko Mangō Mata 3

    The awakening begins!
    In the Wall St Journal
    “Free Trade Loses Political Favor”

    Republican backing fades as voters voice surprising skepticism; Pacific pact seen at risk
    But one big surprise Tuesday was how loudly trade fears reverberated among Republican voters in the primary contests in Michigan and Mississippi—evidence, many observers say, of a widening undercurrent of skepticism on the right about who reaps the benefits from loosened trade restrictions.
    In a June 2015 Wall Street Journal/NBC news poll, taken shortly after the fast-track vote, overall respondents, by 34% to 29% margin, said free trade hurt the U.S. But Republicans were far more negative than Democrats. GOP voters, by 38% to 28%, said free trade harmed the U.S., while Democrats said trade helped by a 35% to 29% edge.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/free-trade-loses-political-favor-1457571366

    • greywarshark 3.1

      Thanks Tautoko MM – keeping Standardistas informed on TPPA for the decade! Such a great help to know the latest, and remind us of its huge importance to our bite-sized wee country.

  4. weka 4

    Don’t mention the climate change! although I’m still picking Dunedin as the first city in NZ to take AGW seriously. They’re now getting repeated and ongoing issues from weather events.

    Overnight power outages in Dunedin from storm winds affected over 4,000 people, but it’s these photos in the ODT that have more warning in them. This is the low lying road between the city and all the Otago Peninsula settlements and currently is the only access onto the Peninsula. The top road has been close for some months from slips from a previous big storm.

    Surface flooding at high tide isn’t unusual at certain times of the year, but these images show that it’s not going to take too much sea rise for that road to become pretty dysfunctional.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/375836/warning-gale-force-winds-otago-today

    Otago Peninsula residents are angry a section of Highcliff Rd is set to remain closed until September, more than a year after a massive downpour swept it away during last June’s downpour.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/371174/lengthy-road-closure-frustrates

    • Jenny Kirk 4.1

      Commiserations Weka – I’m thinking that smallish councils like Dunedin might not be able to afford all the massive repairs and upgrades (and sea walls) the climate change is going to bring on us. Even in Auck City, the Tamaki Drive – a major roadway in and out of Auck – is getting these huge swells, altho the damage so far is not as bad as in Dunedin.
      So – is the govt going to get involved in helping sort out damaged infrastructure caused by climate change events ? Probably not while this current govt has its head in the sand on this matter.

      • Sabine 4.1.1

        Te Atatu Peninsula, one road in or out, Million Dollar Mac Mansions. It does not take a lot to cut that one of the rest of the AKL.
        But hey, talking about property values in a vulnerable Suburb is much sexier then talking about what happens when the insurance decides to not insure these properties anymore.

        And then you have the Mayors (bipartisan! ) of Florida asking the moderators of the Miami debate to include ‘some question’ on Climate Change as they are a. already affected, and b. expect a catastrophe that would see millions of people needing to ‘evacuate’ at once.
        http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/florida-mayors-ask-rubio-about-climate-change.html
        http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/29/opinions/sutter-miami-beach-survive-climate/
        https://floridaclimateinstitute.org/events/upcoming/florida/1276-dec-2015-sea-level-rise-summit-a-warming-arctic-shared-futures-from-alaska-to-florida-tba-fl
        The question is not if and how but when and do we have enough time to prepare and will the other states accept the internally displaced floridians.
        Wonder how the US will treats its environmental refugees?

        • weka 4.1.1.1

          NZ will have an influx of wealthy, entitled USians. Hell, the lefties are even talking about emmigrating if Trump wins the election, so I guess we will get some practice 👿

        • greywarshark 4.1.1.2

          I wonder about the USA and how it has treated its Hurricane Katrina refugees from New Orleans? They were under great pressure at the time, with some very sobering news and video showing the sad consequences of sudden events. Have they been fair to the refugees they transported away from their locations, homes, loved ones and community.??

      • weka 4.1.2

        What?

      • weka 4.1.3

        @Jenny, yep, if the councils can’t afford to fix the top road on the Otago Peninsula in a year then there’s not a hope in hell of them being able to change the Bay road around the harbour. Events are getting closer together, but we’re still not at the point where it’s sinking in. When we get mutiple issues starting pile up and people start complaining about how unfair it is we’re going to need strategies to teach people that this isn’t going away now, that we have to adapt. I think Dunedin is very interesting to watch because they’re leading the way without having the trauma that Chch has. They’ve commissioned a Peak Oil report for the city, and last year they had to acknowledge that a whole suburb (tens of thousands of people) wouldn’t survive the next 20 years. There are also many sustainability initiatives happening within the community.

        (I don’t live in Dunedin btw, but have connections there and think it’s the hot spot for CC in NZ).

        • greywarshark 4.1.3.1

          The Dunedin City Council has been like the National Government, it has gone after the things it wants to do and bugger all the things it should be doing. The whatsitsname stadium has been built so the old boys can sit in their colesseum and think of past glories as trained people run around with a ball for their enjoyment. Don’t worry about the expense, look at the advantages (to us, and some to Dunedin). What they are doing as weka spells out, is important, but they have to speed it up obviously. Money is going to be a problem.

          (Will the stadium be able to be used as a place of refuge as the one in New Orleans was? Perhaps some more money needs to be spent on it to bring it up to speed for this role when it becomes essential to have a big safe space with services, and lots of toilets.)

          And similarly the National Government does not want to waste its time in government in building stuff that is needed, it just has its Santa list to fulfil. Haven’t we been good boys and girls, and don’t we deserve…whatever. They have been good in their eyes mainly in getting into power, and then being able to ride the waves and swim through the high ones like surfers. Danger signs are for sissies, and it’s SEP time for cautionary infrastructure. That is their mindset. Actually surfers have had very caring moral people arise from their midst, so even comparing our politicians to them is an insult. Sorry surfers, you serve a purpose to illustrate how bad our power brokers are.
          edited

          • Graeme 4.1.3.1.1

            “Will the stadium be able to be used as a place of refuge as the one in New Orleans was?”

            It’s only a couple of metres above sea level, so won’t have a lot of freeboard there in a good storm surge. But that’s a couple of metres higher than a lot of South Dunedin or Momona airport, both of which are at sea level. Parts of the airport are below, so any sea level rise or surge is going to cause problems.

      • greywarshark 4.1.4

        I don’t udnerstand what Bear Baby is? Can you explain. Is this about Key?
        We can’t afford to concentrate on having a go at him and National to the extent that we ignore what is going on in the country. That’s what giving politicians celebrity status or presidential status does.

        It diverts attention to one individual or a coterie, and is part of the plan to keep people from thinking seriously as citizens about what direction the country is being driven in. Probably this trivia is a major part of Crosby Textor directives (do you know who they are Queen Ursula), and though it’s not a new ploy for politicians, it is being done so slickly that it has successfully diverted us for far too long. Just watch the road, will you, says the back seat driver!

  5. adam 5

    “What to Fear”

    A song which makes you feel empowered.

    I know most of the time the music I put up is on the heavy side, the Industrial and Metal side of things. But today I have a wee gem of Blue Grass. This is a great song from Sean Watkins. He started out in, and is still part of Nickel Creek, I’d recommend doing a youtube search of this band if you like the song.

    You need to scroll down the piece I’m afraid to listen to the song.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/hear-sean-watkins-political-new-song-what-to-fear-20160120

    It’s also on his web page,

    http://www.seanwatkins.com

  6. Pascals bookie 6

    Good breakdown here on what sanders needs to do to get the nom:

    http://www.vox.com/2016/3/10/11189908/bernie-sanders-can-win

    tldr, he needs 54% of the remaining unpledged delegates to catch up, then swing some pledged delgates. If if he does the first, the latter should happen easy enough.

    But that first isn’t easy. He needs more and bigger upsets than Michigan.

    • Crashcart 6.1

      The problem he has is when he wins it doesn’t get him enough delegates to off set his losses. Even after his big win in Michigan on the day over all he lost ground on Hillary because she thrashed him in Mississippi.

      • adam 6.1.1

        Winning the South means very little. To win as a democrat, you must win the North. You know, the money states. This is playing out bad for Hillary, very very bad.

        And never under estimate sexism in the USA.

        • Crashcart 6.1.1.1

          I hope Bernie wins. The odds of that are not the best unfortunately. I don’t think Hilary is the end of the world. When you listen to her speak she does appear to be more detail focused where as Bernie is very much about passion. I only worry that:

          1) Hilary is in for a harder fight against trump or Cruz than Sanders according to polls,
          2) That her morals are more flexible and what she is saying now can’t really be taken as gospel for what she will do if she becomes president.

            • Andre 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Yep, the revelation that Sanders accepted sub-$1000 donations from a few individuals that work as lobbyists for unions, civil liberties groups and other leftie organisations is going to spark a mass defection to Hillary.

            • Crashcart 6.1.1.1.1.2

              That article is some funny shit. SCANDEL!!!!!! Bernie receives $3,200 total from individuals who happen to be lobbyists. Some of them donating as much as $500. This totally means he is not consistent on getting big money out of politics.

              Of course that is $3,200 of a total $96,000,000 raised.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/77703452/concerns-raised-about-child-rapist-robert-burrett-more-than-30-years-ago

    Steve Parry, former chairman of the board of trustees of Pukenui School, where Burrett became deputy principal in the late 90s, said the school had tried for some time to get rid of him but ran into stiff opposition from the teachers’ union NZEI.

    “They were quite evasive and defensive of the guy – it frustrated us to a high level,” Parry said.

    http://www.metrolyrics.com/part-of-the-union-lyrics-the-strawbs.html

    • weka 7.1

      Nice try PR, but this is a gross failure of widespread proportion. Multiple opportunities were available to many people over a very long period of time and all those people have responsibility.

      As do you and I. This didn’t happen in a vacuum. It happened in a country that is largely in denial about sexual abuse of children and while we have made some institutional changes since the 90s we’re still not very good at handling the very complex issues that arise. We’re the country that this week is going to spend a whole bunch of time talking about this one case as if it’s unusual or extreme and probably not talk about the fact that most children who are sexually abused are having that happen at home or other places that are supposed to be very safe. No-one wants to talk about that because then we would have to acknowledge that most sexual abuse isn’t being done by lone alcoholic freaks but by the men in our lives that we love and spend our days with. Until we are willing to have that conversation we are culturally sanctioning child rape.

      • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1

        Ok that’s fine but do you also agree that the NZEI put the interests of Robert Burrett ahead of the school children and that by their actions they helped him to commit those acts?

        • weka 7.1.1.1

          How would I know that PR? Or you for that matter. FFS, it’s a single short sentence quote and another sentence that is the interpretation of the journalist with no comment from the NZEI. The quote came from a Board of Trustees chair without any context at all. I don’t know if he’s being righteous or if he has anti-union prejudice like you. I also don’t know what other actions he took, if any, to protect the children he had a responsibility to protect.

          You using the sexual abuse of children to push an anti-union agenda is despicable and if I was a moderator here I would ban you for such blatant flame tactics.

        • greywarshark 7.1.1.2

          I suggest you don’t know what you are talking about PR, you have just picked up a bit about it in the newspaper or other media. It seems to me that the NZEI would have wanted a proper case made before a teacher was summarily dismissed. The fact that a Board member criticised the union doesn’t mean that it was a fair and reasonable judgment.

          The Boards are often made up of confident, opinionated people from the community who run a successful business or such. It doesn’t mean that they are fully cognisant with all the laws, all the best practices, and follow the proper procedures in forming a case against a teacher employee. It may all be done on personal prejudice, against someone who doesn’t dress like them (scruffy) and on small evidence.

          This from PR provided link at No.7.
          Steve Parry, former chairman of the board of trustees of Pukenui School, where Burrett became deputy principal in the late 90s, said the school had tried for some time to get rid of him but ran into stiff opposition from the teachers’ union NZEI.
          “They were quite evasive and defensive of the guy – it frustrated us to a high level,” Parry said.

          My thoughts on the above paras are that Mr Parry and his Board were frustrated when they couldn’t act just as they wanted, when they decided on action, and the Union said they needed to have more information and facts before they could proceed against this teacher. The Union cann’t want bad teachers to stay in the profession, but probably don’t accept Board’s bad opinions perhaps on flimsy evidence, as sufficient reason to sack a teacher.
          edited

          • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.2.1

            Ok so there’re some fair points but the question for me is who is the NZEI advocating for, the teachers or the children?

            Should the union be erring on the side of the children or the teachers, whose interests are more important here

            The NZEI have a part to play in this

            • te reo putake 7.1.1.2.1.1

              Oh, do piss off. The kids don’t pay union fees, so the answer is obviously that the union works for its members. If the case against the guy was so weak that the school board was unable to do anything about it, that’s not the union’s fault. Equally, now that the truth is out, I’m sure the union’s sympathy is with his victims.

              You, however, are using the victims to try and make a sad and grubby political point. Shame on you, PR, shame on you.

              • Ok so there’re some fair points but the question for me is who is the NZEI advocating for, the teachers or the children?

                The fact that the NZEI is a union representing teachers should give you a fairly broad hint as to the only possible or reasonable answer to that silly question.

                Should the union be erring on the side of the children or the teachers…

                That’s disingenous. What you’re actually asking is “Should a teacher’s union enthusiastically join a BoT’s attempt to dismiss one of its members without evidence?” To which the answer is “What? No! What’s wrong with you, man?”

            • weka 7.1.1.2.1.2

              Still using victims of sexual abuse to union bash PR?

              If you have any actual evidence that the NZEI knew that Burret was a danger to the children he was around and did nothing and instead chose to support him, put it up.

            • Gabby 7.1.1.2.1.3

              You’ve got a funny idea about what teachers’ unions are for. They’re really not encouraged to interfere in professional standards. Not sure which rightwing party decided they should butt out and stick to union stuff.

        • joe90 7.1.1.3

          Dishonest trole cites selectively to infer union support for a child sex offender.
          /

          There were no issues around his behaviour with children,” Parry said.

  8. Mike C 8

    I have been banned indefinitely from commenting at Pete Georges YourNZ Blog.

    Personally … I do not believe that the punishment fits the crime.

    Am dying to know what “Timoti” wrote after my final comment last night … because he has also suffered the same fate as myself.

    Everything I wrote in YourNZ was genuine from my personal point of view … and I am sorry that George has taken such drastic action … because I see it as being a very slippery slope downhill for the YourNZ Blog if this is to be Georges preferred method and style of moderation.

    I am well aware of Georges legal situations … and I have never done anything to harm that … and in fact I have kept my mouth well and truly zipped … because of the details George has imparted to me personally outside the realm of his YourNZ blog.

    Only time will tell if Georges blog is to survive.

    • weka 8.1

      Do you have a link?

        • weka 8.1.1.1

          Hmm, not sure that is a ban exactly, it looks like pre-moderation. How about a link to what you were doing that he doesn’t like?

          I don’t know how he handles moderation there, but I do know he trolled this site for a long time with expert level awareness of how to inflame without getting an actual ban. So, irony.

          • Mike C 8.1.1.1.1

            @Weka

            Haven’t been able to find the last comment I wrote in there last night … so I assume George has removed it.

            George took issue with something that I wrote in here the other night after he had been accusing me of being a troll over there … and his behavior towards me was pretty full on and he seemed so different to normal.

            He told me off publicly in front of everybody …and told me never to write anything like that about him ever again.

            I then asked him if he was censoring what I was allowed to say not just on his blog … but on other forums as well.

            All I did was stick up for myself … and he didn’t like it.

            Right now I feel like a little five year old girl who has been sent to sit on the “Naughty Step”. LOL.

            I doubt that George will allow any of my comments to show on his blog ever again … because of the way he has been behaving towards me over the past several days.

            • weka 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Ah ok, thanks for explaining, that makes sense.

              I’m tempted to say congratulations 😉

              • Ha! Yes congrats, indeed, Mike C. I think you are correct that PG will prune your efforts in the future and only allow your safest comments through. Anything challenging will be scrapped.

                Pete’s attitude to moderating has changed considerably. There’s two reasons for that; one is that his blog has been targeted by a couple of easily identifiable trolls with a hatred for him and a tendency to go to court with frivolous complaints. Mike C knows who I mean, but for similarly vexatious legal reasons, it’s not appropriate to speak further.

                Secondly, his blog has simply got more popular and he is now somewhat overwhelmed with comments. Given that most commenters are righties who prefer not to think too hard before hitting the ‘post’ button, PG’s had to deal with all sorts of gibberish. that can be pretty time consuming.

                For a one man show, he does OK. But I can understand his current frustration.

                Anyhoo, I hope you’ll continue to comment here at TS, Mike C. You seem to fit in quite well.

                • Mike C

                  @TeReoPutake

                  So the Wedding is still on then ???

                  Good to know Buddy … because it’s been a weird few days.

              • Mike C

                @Weka

                Thanks ??? LOL.

    • TC 8.2

      Hope it does as PG is like that eccentric retiree many of us know tinkering away in the shed.

      Harmless and entertaining as long as you can walk away when you have had enough.

  9. Anne 9

    Listen to this One News reporter:

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/maori-academic-if-cop-knocks-door-hed-better-im-shutting?autoPlay=4795576343001

    A Maori academic makes a point about the desirability of a Maori police officer being used to dampen down tense situations when a Maori is the target – such as yesterday’s siege in the B.O.P. This idiot reporter suggests he’s being racist. No comprehension of what is basic commonsense, or a sensitivity towards Maori culture or protocol.

    • weka 9.1

      *facepalm*. I can’t believe that the state broadcaster allows such ignorance and in fact racism in its presenter. It wasn’t even like she was saying some people might see that as racist, she was expressing her own personal view and ignorance.

      When I heard the other day that the Māori warden had talked the man with the gun down I thought ‘this!’, this is why we have to stop thinking that anti-racism is colourblindness. It’s not. Different cultures have different needs and the dominant culture has a responsibility to work with that.

      • TC 9.1.1

        I expect fox style reporting from nationals tv channel so I’m never disappointed. Weldons sorting out the other for his besties JK.

        Fear, dogwhistle and division then some celebrity items to pad it out unless theres a positive property values piece to dangle in front of the aspirationals.

        • weka 9.1.1.1

          The only time I watch them is when they’re linked from here or twitter or when something interesting is going on and I want to see how it’s being covered. My tolerance is low I guess.

          • Grindlebottom 9.1.1.1.1

            I watched it. Didn’t have a problem with it. The reporter asked a question many pakeha would ask, so why shouldn’t she be able to express that view? She got a good answer. So now she’s got something to think about.

            • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

              For me it was the way she asked it. In 2016 a state broadcaster journalist should have a better awareness of the issues. She could have asked the question in a way that elicited a good answer without making out the dude was racist.

              • Grindlebottom

                Fair enough. I don’t expect much from the younger crop of journalists these days. Perhaps I should.

    • Tim 9.2

      Yeah, I think the academic is being racist here. He is part of the community of New Zealand and he should be prepared to talk to police officers who are European and those of other races too. Similarly if he needs to be seen by a doctor or another member of the public services. Ideally there would be proportional representation of Maori in all public sectors to improve the service for all cultures but if that is not readily available then he’s either being dumb to suggest he wouldn’t talk to a European cop or he’s just trying to rile people up.

      Maori culture or protocol is obviously important to those that follow it but if that involves refusing to talk to police then I don’t think it should be respected in that instance.

      • Anne 9.2.1

        The academic was effectively putting himself in another person’s place. Assuming you are Pakeha… if you find yourself in big trouble and need assistance would you respond better if the police officer who came for you was Pakeha? Of course you would because that person has an innate understanding of your cultural background. It’s no different with Maori or Polynesian or any of the other ethnic minorities.

        Nobody was being racist except the silly reporter who was out of her depth.

        • weka 9.2.1.1

          Another example would be a woman who’s been raped. Is it appropriate for male police to interview her? No, not only because she’s probably going to be more comfortable with women, but because the chances that the male police officer understands the issues well enough is way smaller.

        • Tim 9.2.1.2

          I still think the guy was being more racist than the reporter there though…

          It seems like pretty strong discrimination based on race to me to say you wouldn’t talk to a police officer of certain skin colour, with the assumption being that a person of a certain skin colour has a certain type of culture and certain bad beliefs that are so significant as to outweigh the fact that they are the person available. Like all people I think I would probably have biases towards people who are like me, yes… But personally I’d do my best to look past those and not request a different person…

          Anyway in this case the matter was a bit more urgent than usual given the guy had shot some police officers. He was lucky he wasn’t shot back. Haha, once you get to the point when people are being shot then I think cultural sensitivity has to take a bit of a back seat.

          • Anne 9.2.1.2.1

            Stupid is as stupid does.

            • Tim 9.2.1.2.1.1

              What do you mean by that? In my opinion that academic has done nothing to try and improve race relations or increase trust in our police. It just seemed irresponsible.

      • McFlock 9.2.2

        What if you were deaf or spoke little or no English, so there were frequent communication issues between yourself and people who didn’t communicate in the same way you did?

        What if the person knocking on your door works for an organisation that has a long history of treating deaf or ESL people badly?

        And what if almost the only issues which would result in that person knocking on your door was highly serious and quite possibly legally perilous for you, regardless of whether you believe you might have done anything wrong?

        Now put all those three together, and wouldn’t you want a translator there when you spoke to them?

        • Tim 9.2.2.1

          Yes I would.

          If the person is deaf or does not speak English that is a different matter than being Maori. If the person did not speak English then yes I think every effort should be made to have a translator available because communication is very impractical without that… If the problem is urgent (say a medical problem or an urgent police matter) then I think the reasonable response would be to try to engage with the public servant as best as possible until further support is available.

          • weka 9.2.2.1.1

            I think you might be taking what the man said too literally. He’s making a point. He’s not saying that if he is in urgent need of assistance that the police have to send a Māori policeman.

            Doesn’t help that the vid is badly truncated so we can’t see the context.

            • Tim 9.2.2.1.1.1

              Maybe, agree it would be best to see what was said immediately before that particular line… Just felt he might not be improving people’s trust in police very much. But yeah more people in the police and healthcare and education with backgrounds representing the population can only be a good thing… But I think we need to expect people to meet the public workforce halfway and engage too even if things aren’t ideal.

    • maui 9.3

      It’s sad seeing the reaction to this, people saying Maori are too entitled where it’s really the ones saying that who are the entitled ones in real life.

    • Sacha 9.4

      Who was the reporter – not noted on the page or clip?

      Maori liaison officers tend to have better local connections in regions with high Maori populations, funnily enough. They are also unlikely to stereotype Maori offenders, so will dig further for what’s behind the behaviour.

      Both of those factors probably helped in this case. However I’m unimpressed with the lack of responsibility I’ve heard from the man’s mother. Needs to be hooked up with some wiser elders perhaps.

  10. aerobubble 10

    MSD investigates itself. Concluding. An inquiry showed MSD had taken all reasonable steps to prevent such a tragedy but the events were extreme, the individual was well motivated and was armed with a dangerous weapon. Tully found guilty is now finally to be housed at government expense. Did it have to lead to two dead? Was Tully offered housing? Is he terminally ill? Why would anyone kill, manipulate, be aggressive toward MSD staff! perplexed, no answers. What reasonable steps still failed?

    • Puckish Rogue 10.1

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/77612963/russell-john-tully-went-from-nicest-bloke-to-killer

      The guy is a scumbag and, if what this articles suggests is true, then he was a ticking time bomb and eventually he would have gone off at someone else

      • weka 10.1.1

        Yeah, people become murderers like that for no reason 🙄

        I can’t bring myself to read that article properly. Any reporter that uses a phrase like ‘he had a paddy’ obviously has no idea what journalism is and has no sense of irony in the NZ context. Well done jonolist for objectifying the man and taking us further from understanding the truth and being able to prevent it happening again (case in point, PR’s comment).

        • aerobubble 10.1.1.1

          Anger is justified. The question for me is where that anger at the deaths should be placed. Victimizing the dead as having tortured this arrogant, owed a living, down and out, into lashing out. Or more correctly asking how a man with no money to his name, a cycle, no housing managed to get hold of guns, bullets, no doubt with MSD grant money. Were staff to considerate tohim, unable to provide housing they throw money at him, and unwittingly arm him? He wanted to live where he grew up, such arrogance, he is now living housed far away from where he grew up.

          It could have been so different, a universal income would negate the need fot Tully to seek WINZ help, a fully housing policy would make it easy to provide a damp home, but these policies dont exist, so WINZ knows individual s will turn up arrogant, demanding and require assistance, that they cant turn away, and can be put personally in the middle between govt intrasidence and this egotistical nightmare. Is it now to be a crime that sociopaths cant use WINZ?
          What is Tullys history, is he dying, is he the product of one of our state or private religious institutions, or just the pamper son.
          Future murderers do seek benefits from WINZ, is this to be the new policy that staff reasonable steps are not protection from harm and they have to accept that.
          Where is worksafe? Did WINZ provide the grant to fund weapons!

          • weka 10.1.1.1.1

            Sorry to be pedantic but there is no way that anyone in NZ could get a WINZ grant to buy firearms. How we frame this is important in understanding what happened and in not creating more stigma around beneficiaries in general. Yes he might have used his main benefits to buy firearms. Or he might have managed to get the system to give him a grant for something else and used that to buy firearms but it’s difficult to do that now (WINZ generally don’t give out cash to the beneficiary), they pay directly to the supplier). Or he stole them, or whatever. I don’t think accessing firearms in NZ is that hard if you put your mind to it and move in the right circles.

            I don’t blame the people that got shot. No-one deserves that. It’s pretty clear that there are institutional failures that contributed to the situation and often there are individuals in the system who support or condone those failures but mostly I see people who are themselves relatively powerless to change what is happening.

            The thing that worries me is that the strategy that the MSD has taken post-shooting will just send the problem elsewhere as well as increasing the stress on already vulnerable people eg refusing people access to WINZ offices without ID. I would have less of a problem with that if I saw other strategies being put in place that acknowledge that people generally don’t commit murder in a vacuum, there are always contributory factors.

            • Psycho Milt 10.1.1.1.1.1

              There are always contributory factors, yes. Things like being a malicious, aggressive and unreasonable person who always blames other people for the problems he brings down on himself through his own actions seems to crop up often as a contributory factor among male murderers. There’s no reason for any sympathy for someone like Tully.

              • weka

                What makes you think I have sympathy for Tully in regards to him being a murderer?

              • aerobubble

                No sympathy for Tully, just concerns that this will happen again as you are incapable of understanding that sociopaths arrogantly believe they have the same rights as everyone else. It struck me when one of the witnesses said Tully was arrogant, as if WINZ could deny a person a benefit for character issues. Obviously all tyes, blind, dumb, sociolpathic, etc all attend WINZ offices and where staff are pressured to deliever outcomes that puts them literally in the gunsights of men like Tully, we all need to ask how WINZ failed. ITs not right for WINZ to say they did everything reasonable, though true, staff had no means to house Tully. As thst means this event will inevitable recur. Its manslaughter to set a trap for WINZ staff, or for CCTV victims,of miners. Well it was once.

        • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.2

          Well let me help you out then:

          His promising start seems to have been derailed at some stage. He appeared before the Blenheim District Court in November, 2002, on threatening to kill and presenting a firearm charges.

          The charges came from an incident where his landlord went to his Picton flat to serve an eviction notice. He found Tully cleaning a rifle and putting a silencer on it. He claimed Tully pointed the gun at him and threatened to “waste” him.

          Tully was convicted and fined $500 on the two charges. Police also applied to confiscate three firearms found on Tully’s property.

          By 2013, he was back in New Zealand drifting around camping grounds in North Canterbury. He spent time at the Waikuku Beach Holiday Park, the Riverland Holiday Park in Kaiapoi and the Rangiora Holiday Park.

          An altercation at the Rangiora Holiday Park resulted in a complaint to the police. He was asked to leave several of the camping grounds because of his mouthy attitude.

          When Tully moved to Ashburton, the Rangiora WINZ office warned staff about him.

          Within about six weeks of his return to Ashburton, Police presented him with a trespass notice, forbidding him to enter the WINZ office. This didn’t stop him coming to the office on August 28 to speak to a case worker.

          He was detained outside and after being told the police would be called said, “I’m going home.”

          I’m sure there were some mitigating circumstances but I’m also sure that hes a complete piece of s**t

          • weka 10.1.1.2.1

            Mate, you’ve already demonstrated your judgement is impaired by using victims of child sexual abuse and very poor levels of information to union bash. No way I am going to trust your version of events about Tully that you are pulling out of the MSM. You appear to have no critical thinking skills alongside your moral vacuity.

      • Stuart Munro 10.1.2

        Yes – he should have just quietly lived out the rest of his life on the dole without complaint right PR? Because that’s the future that having neo-liberal governments in power guarantees to an ever increasing group of New Zealanders.

        He should have risen in arms and brought down the government. Jobs are essential and no amount of freemarket bullshit can take their place.

        • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2.1

          Not the dole, he was on a disability benefit by the by

          “He should have risen in arms and brought down the government”

          What exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying he was justified in killing or that he should have killed more?

          • Stuart Munro 10.1.2.1.1

            Economic violence is not privileged above actual violence. The neo-liberal rape of NZ ruined this man’s, and many other people’s lives. He acted against the lowest part of the oppressive aparatus – he should have cut off the head of the snake.

            If he’d had a job he’d have been a law abiding citizen. He’s not the scumbag here – the scumbags are Key, English, Bennet and Rebstock.

          • weka 10.1.2.1.2

            NZ doesn’t have a disability benefit. What are you talking about?

            • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2.1.2.1

              That’s why originally I posted this: “if what this articles suggests is true”

              • weka

                translation: “I’m making prejudicial, ill-informed, morally-questionable comment on a political blog because I’m lazy and I want an easy way to make political slurs and practice my lazy-troll arts”.

  11. greywarshark 11

    [r0b: deleted. With respect to your query and other followup comments by weka, the original comment came from a very unusual case that usually goes straight to spam. It was a mistake that some of them briefly appeared here. Sorry.]

    • weka 11.1

      No worries r0b, good to have a reminder that we can’t always see from here what needs to be done, or the work that goes into it.

  12. greywarshark 12

    Testing. Just checking if this comes through the system.

    Right shows up okay

    Now I’ll add:
    Hi lprent
    I am puzzled about why I can’t find a previous comment on Open Mike 11/3.
    It was a vacuous little thing from some git called…
    I wrote some paras in answer to it.
    On the right hand comments column I see weka replied to it.

    I can’t find it looking down the Open Mike 11/3 post.
    I can’t bring it up when I try to link to it from search of my comments.
    I can’t bring it up when I try to link to weka’s reply.

    How can a number of comments just disappear like that?
    If taken off usually there is a succinct point made in bold as to why.
    I thought it was an interesting example of RW trolls taking on new identities and styles.

    Can you throw light on this? Thanks in advance.
    *********************************
    Now on a separate comment I will put the name of the git I was talking about as I think it might have been dragged off the post, along with replies, as spam or something. I don’t know that is the case, but perhaps lprent can comment if this can make a number of comments disappear.
    ***************************************
    Hi I put the name, waited a full minute and nothing. So can someone explain what has happened?

    • Andre 12.1

      greywarshark, if your git was [deleted] looked like a spambot to me, rather than a living breathing troll.

    • The commenter concerned sends a lot of stuff our way and it inevitably ends up in the trash, though the occasional one sneaks through. They’ve used multiple names, but the content is usually pretty similar. Mostly it’s musings on a broken relationship and completely unrelated to the thread it’s aimed at. I do think they’re a real person, btw.

    • weka 12.3

      I just tried putting her name in a comment and the comment didn’t appear. I’m assuming that her name is tagged to put any comment that contains it straight into moderation or spam trash.

      If you try and open a comment that has a link to it and you instead go the top of the page that the comment was on it usually means the comment has been removed, or the comment is being edited.

      • greywarshark 12.3.1

        Okay. Thanx for that weka and TRP. Andre I don’t know, if could be a spambot because it was some rubbish about some Baby Bear without reference to whom it referred.

        But TRP says it is just some vacuous person assuming different guises to attempt to do something that the big people do, but which is over this person’s head.

  13. Penny Bright 13

    Concerned about the TPPA?

    Haven’t yet made your submission?

    Online submission form

    Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee

    INTERNATIONAL TREATY EXAMINATION OF THE TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT (TPPA)

    https://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/ECommitteeSubmission/9abe7211-f3d1-471d-8a0b-a5a9010ca2cc/CreateSubmission

    ‘Drop dead’ cut off time for making your on-line submission is midnight tonight Friday 11 March 2016,

    Don’t forget to click Yes to this question:

    “Do you wish to appear before the committee?”

    Request to appear

    You can request to appear before the committee.

    The committee will decide whether or not it wishes to hear submissions.

    Once this decision has been made, you will be contacted by committee staff.

    Please note this may be at short notice.

    Submissions are usually heard in public.

    If you have any special requests related to appearing before the committee (for example, if you can not travel to Wellington or you wish to be heard in private), you can use the box below to contact committee staff.

    Do you wish to appear before the committee?

    No Yes ”
    __________________________________________________________________________________

    For information to help you make your submission – try here:

    http://itsourfuture.org.nz/take-action/

    Cheers!

    Penny Bright

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

  14. b waghorn 14

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/298683/court-hands-over-govt-kauri-export-emails

    This could turn out very interesting. I wonder how often the kauri export division of oriveda will get a mention.

  15. Puckish Rogue 15

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2016/03/public_polls_february_2016.html

    Remarkably consistent from both National and the Greens as for Labour…well at least they’re trying

    • swordfish 15.1

      Two Polls in February …
      Roy Morgan = puts the Govt Bloc slightly ahead of the Oppo.
      Colmar Brunton = places the Oppo Bloc slightly ahead of the Govt.

      So, Winnie either holds the balance of power or is very close to it.*

      ———————————————————————————————-

      Labour = Roy Morgan 27, Colmar Brunton 32

      Roy Morgan usually record a lower rating for Labour than both the Colmar Bruntons and the Reid Research Polls. So, nothing unusual there.
      ——————————————————————————————-
      * Then, again, if you include the Maori Party amongst the Swing either way Centrists then the Roy Morgan suggests an absolute knife edge situation, with the Colmar Brunton recording a more substantial lead for the parties of Opposition+Maori

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.1

        And a lack of evidence that Labour is polling any stronger now than it was in 2014.

        • swordfish 15.1.1.1

          Pretty much where it was during the early months of 2014, but – on the bright-ish side – well up on both its June-September 2014 ratings and, of course, its particularly dismal Election result.

  16. Mike C 16

    @TeReoPutake and Weak

    It’s really hard and time consuming to write a basic or quick comment in the Standard Blog.

    You have to scroll down miles and miles sometimes … to write a comment … which is somewhat off putting for new members.

    Georges Blog has a better set up … aside from his up vote and down vote system … amongst several other things. LOL.

    YourNZ has been taken over by Rachinger.

    Heard from me first.

  17. Mike C 17

    @Weka

    Sorry again.

    I wonder if George is worried about Rachinger taking over his YourNZ blog?

    Something ain’t right over there.

  18. Mike C 18

    @The Standard

    So … you are also moderating and deleting my comments.

    • Sacha 18.1

      You may be using words that automatically trigger moderation. And it may take these folk a while outside their other obligations to respond. Can’t all be retirees.

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