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Open mike 11/07/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 11th, 2016 - 56 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

56 comments on “Open mike 11/07/2016”

  1. Jenny 1

    Will the Democratic Party reject the the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement?


  2. Strategos 2

    Did John Key just give the kiss of death to Judith Collins leadership prospects ?

  3. andrew murray 3

    Come back Paul.!!!

    I for one miss your reminders of what a shitty society we are.

    • Rosie 3.1

      Some of us don’t need reminders. We live with it every day. It’s in our faces. We are not apart from it.

      I for one want to get on with helping in what small ways I can to help lay the tracks for a change of government. We’ve had almost eight depressing years of this f*cked up government – it’s time to put energies elsewhere, just imo.

      On that note, well done Andy and Labour for a an excellent speech on housing yesterday. That is solid stuff. That’s real hope. With our Green friends we can do this.

  4. Greg 4

    IRD now in trouble, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11672055

    If these experts now have no confidence in the IRD,
    then doesnt it make a mockery of Key’s decision to give IRD 205 Million back in April for these Tax Haven Laws to be EU compliant.

    The Government could also bring forward a second tranche of anti-money laundering measures. Mr Key said while it was possible there were rogue trust companies, they had to meet laws, include money laundering laws, and Inland Revenue was recently given $205 million for compliance.


  5. dv 5

    Well well well (sorry about the pun) Look at this

    The Ashburton District Council has backed out of negotiations to sell Lot 9 of its business estate, which came with resource consent to extract large quantities of water from aquifers beneath the town.

    It is understood the decision to back out of negotiations was made at a public-excluded council meeting last week. Councillors had been sworn to secrecy until the council released the news on Monday.



    AND interestingly
    NZ Pure Blue has two New Zealand directors, John Paynter and Roydon Hartnett, but its ownership is concealed through a trust.

    • Rosie 5.1

      Yes, some really good news to start off Monday. I wonder how much the decision had to do with the council not being satisfied with the company’s plans or how much current councillors and the Mayor Angus Mckay want to retain their positions post local body elections. In saying that I don’t know if the Mayor is running again this year.

    • Chooky 5.2

      great news!

  6. Ad 6

    And here I was during Brexit complaining that it would lead to Balkansiation and a perpetual splitting of territories, and lo and behold a cross-party Constitutional Reform Group is preparing for it anyway. From The Guardian this morning says that the group will announce shortly:

    “The governance of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should be reinvented within a new voluntary union in a bid to save the UK from disintegration, an independent all-party group of experts will argue this week.

    The Constitution Reform Group, convened by former Conservative cabinet minister Lord Salisbury, is to make the the case for radical constitutional change in the UK by claiming the need has been boosted by the vote to leave the European Union.

    Their proposals say the existing union should be replaced with fully devolved government in each part of the UK, with each given full sovereignty over its own affairs. The Westminster parliament, the group says, should then be reduced to 146 MPs. The individual nations and regions of the UK would then be encouraged to pool sovereignty to cover the matters they wish to be dealt with on a shared basis.

    The proposals say they “start from the position that each of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is a unit that both can and should determine its own affairs to the extent that it considers it should; but that each unit should also be free to choose to share, through an efficient and effective United Kingdom, functions which are more effectively exercised on a shared basis.”

    The new construction suggests a complete reversal of the UK’s current constitutional arrangement, in which all sovereignty formally rests in the centre and is then devolved to regions on a piecemeal basis.”

    So, anyone tells me again WHY Brexit voters went the way they did, what matters much more is what happens next: sustained incoherence in governance itself.

  7. Ad 7

    A sneaky glimpse of the 1%-ers, told through the divorce courts:


  8. Puckish Rogue 8


    What he’s saying will resonate with quite a few people but it’s a shame he looks like such a…I don’t know, smiling Rimmer?

    Also was Jacindas reply edited? It seems quite short in comparison

    • Greg 8.1

      new deal on PAYE tax, to raise the economy of everybody,
      why is it always about welfare,

  9. ianmac 9

    A piece of good news:
    “A deal to set up a water bottling plant near Ashburton has been abandoned.”
    PS. OOps Dv has already done it above.

  10. Kevin 10

    Why is it that the leader of a country that is supposed to be our ‘enemy’ is more believable than the leader of a country that is supposed to be our ‘friend’?


    • Bill 10.1

      That looks like quite a good site for info. Cheers.

      edit – and yes, Putin merely appears to be speaking sense in the vid within your link.

      • Mervyn 10.1.1

        “Merely appears”? He isn’t really speaking sense?

        • Bill

          What I mean is that speaking sense shouldn’t be such a big deal – a reflection of how deeply mired in propaganda we in the supposed free west are.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11

    Tim Jackson: prosperity without growth

    Kim Hill talks to Tim Jackson, Professor of Sustainable Development at the University of Surrey, Director of the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity, author of Prosperity Without Growth: Foundations for the Economy of Tomorrow, and recipient of the 2016 Hillary Laureate for exceptional mid-career leadership.

  12. adam 12

    “The greatest of our evils and the worst of our crimes is poverty.” George Bernard Shaw

    On contact with Chris Hedges – As we are going down the road of a justice system which no longer works. A glimpse of what this national government has left us with.

  13. Chooky 13

    The Wellington City Council should be supporting this Marae !!!! ( not condemning it!)


    “A Wellington urban marae built by homeless youth, ex-cons, and gang members is struggling financially after the closure of several of its buildings by the Wellington City Council. The Council says it’s a death trap. Our reporter Daniela Maoate-Cox visited the marae to find out more.”

    ( This Marae 20+ years ago provided free of charge large native trees for me to plant in our local council owned wilderness reserve above Wellington city…Bruce Stewart and whanau have hearts of gold and are real environmentalists and Greenies)

    • joe90 14.1

      I forgot about don’t read the comments and read the first comment…

    • Muttonbird 14.2

      I don’t blame them.

      RNZ is for, and paid for by, the people of New Zealand. The primary reason (whatever they might say) is that message forums are full of bad behaviour, and what I consider to be a sophisticated, culture driven organisation should just concentrate on what they do best which is delivering the type of public broadcasting which private media cannot deliver.

    • weston 14.3

      jeez i didnt even know there was a comment format they kept that pretty secret ! i never once heard them mention that on radio .I guess rnz didnt have any more space in the program from its endless promotions silly jingles and crap msm news !!!

  14. Colonial Viper 15

    Graeme Hart selling his near new super 107m yacht for US$195M.

    He is building a bigger one and probably needs to free up some cash.


  15. Puckish Rogue 16


    Its a shame politicians become more interesting once they’re away from parliament

    • alwyn 16.1

      Yes, it is just the same with Don Brash.
      On the need for house prices to fall if we ever hope to get back to affordable housing he says.
      “Former National Party leader Don Brash says politicians and others are “dishonest” if they want houses to be affordable, but don’t admit prices must fall sharply.
      “People who say they’re in favour of affordable housing but don’t want to admit the fact that the only way of achieving that is to see a big fall in house prices are frankly being dishonest.”

      Mind you, when he was in Parliament Don was one of the very few who did tell people the truth.
      See if you can find any current MP who is willing to say this. Certainly Key and Little deny that it must happen if you want to get back to reality. The both just bullshit on about how it doesn’t have to occur. How does either of them possibly think that you can get people able to afford housing if the price/income ratio doesn’t fall?

      Dons comment is part of this story

      • Muttonbird 16.1.1

        Now it’s Little and Key, is it? Interesting what happens in a government’s third term. All their problems become ‘politician’ problems instead of ‘government’ problems.

        • alwyn

          They are both on record as denying what Don says. What does that fact have to do with it being a “government” problem. You aren’t suggesting that Little is part of the Government are you?
          It is purely that both Key and Little, and Twyford and Smith for that matter, aren’t going to tell people that their million dollar Auckland house is going to have to drop in price by half a million dollars if housing is going to become affordable. They are still active politicians. Brash, like Franks, isn’t any more and is now quite happy to tell people the truth.
          Of course it is a politician problem. You know the definition surely? How can you tell a politician is lying? They have their mouth open. Show me where any current MP has told people the truth on this subject. Any politician from any party?

          • Muttonbird

            Fascinating that you now seek to coagulate both National and Labour soundbites on this topic in the face of suppositions by two or three ex-banker politicians.

            You do this because your ideology of choice is being attacked, so the best defence is to rope in any opposition comment remotely supporting Key’s position on the matter. Thus you can blame Andrew Little in equal amounts as you can blame the government.

            I think the opinions of Grimes, Brash (NAT), and Franks (ACT) recently publicised in the media have been bought by John Key’s government.

            Key and co are deliberately putting extreme statements out there by way of paid proxies like Brash, Grimes, and Franks in order to seem to be moderate in their subsequent reaction.

            Remember Grimes advocates for Gold Coast style high rises on the St Helliers waterfront. Also, Grimes and Brash suddenly advocate for a 60% crash of house prices…

            These are jumping-the-shark suggestions by men who have not one socially responsible bone in their body.

            • alwyn

              “I think the opinions of Grimes, Brash (NAT), and Franks (ACT) recently publicised in the media have been bought by John Key’s government.”
              That is rubbish.
              Grimes and Brash are pointing out the obvious. If the median house price in Auckland is 10 times the median income the prices will have to drop, or incomes will have to rise enormously before the house prices become affordable.

              ALL the politicians are saying no, no, no. It isn’t Little on one side and Key on the other. ALL the active politicians are denying the obvious because the don’t dare tell the people in Auckland that the only way that houses can possibly become “affordable” is if they drop enormously in price.
              Key doesn’t want the public to be told that any more than Little does. He certainly doesn’t want people to realise the truth that Grimes and Brash are telling us. To suggest that Key is putting them up to this is foolish. Key and the National Party can’t afford the public to realise this any more than Little and The Labour Party can.

              “Grimes and Brash suddenly advocate for a 60% crash”. They aren’t suddenly advocating it. They are pointing out a logically necessary condition before houses can be said to be affordable.

              • Pat

                bang on….they are all playing the same bloody ridiculous game

                • Colonial Viper

                  desperately trying to appeal to first home buyers and wannabe investors, while trying to maintain the expectations of existing home owners and property speculators and avoid scaring anyone of.

                  Silly stuff.

                  • Pat

                    its not a bad policy so they should stop the see through bullshit and state their case and sell it on its merits….of course there will be downsides for some groups but the benefits far outweigh any of the expected costs.

  16. Chris 17


    Malta providing charity for New Zealanders. No doubt will make not a scrap of difference to Key and his mates.

  17. AsleepWhileWalking 18

    Penal welfare, interview with Darrin Hodgetts (different from the one in point #12)


  18. Muttonbird 19

    Lloyd Burr at New Shub has used pictures of the Auckland Domain and Rangitoto to describe how much land Labour’s housing policy would require.


    This is either lazy, or a hit job. Why didn’t he just put a shot of the pink and white terraces up, intimating Labour were going to build there?

    • alwyn 19.1

      The comparison actually seemed to me to be quite a useful one.
      Most people in Auckland, at least, will have some idea of the size of the Domain or of Rangitoto. Just giving hectares, or square kilometres or whatever doesn’t help. How many people can really visualise how big a square kilometre actually is?
      I thought it was quite helpful and it never occurred to me that what you suggest was what he was proposing.

      • Muttonbird 19.1.1

        Like I said, lazy.

        How many people do you think are any the wiser after Lloyd’s article? To me all they see is the nice game of cricket on the Auckland Domain and, surely they don’t want to build there?

        Alwyn, I didn’t think you were so naive with respect to media process.

        • alwyn

          “To me all they see is the nice game of cricket on the Auckland Domain and, surely they don’t want to build there?”

          We will have to agree to differ. Your view of the effect on people of the comparison and my view of what people are going to think simply don’t match.

          • Colonial Viper

            Auckland population growth has to be halted. It doesn’t get any simpler.

            • Muttonbird

              Auckland population growth has to be halted. It doesn’t get any simpler.

              -Colonial Viper


              Thanks for your comment anyway, regardless of its stupidity.

              • Colonial Viper

                Managerialism is what you and Labour are good at.

                I did mean “halted” btw.

            • Rodel

              Establish a proper port in Northland (and perhaps in other NZ centres, as Winston Peters has proposed , invest in rail , somehow provide free or heavily subsidized business transport costs from regions, i.e treat business transport costs the same as we treat health and education, & regional growth will follow together with regional employment and pressure will be taken off Auckland.

              There is still the blind urban myth in Auckland and elsewhere that ‘growth is always good’ but super growth is akin to cancer. Leaders (Mayors, MPs, CEOs managers etc. like growth. It suits their aspirational egos.

              Dick Smith ( yes, the Dick Smith) wrote a good book about the folly of blind belief in growth from an Australian and world perspective.

      • Rodel 19.1.2

        1 hectare = the size of a rugby field -easy

        • alwyn

          I’ll take your word for it. I couldn’t even find a definition of that.
          eg http://www.dimensionsinfo.com/rugby-field-size/
          However I find trying to visualise 2140 Rugby Fields is a bit hard.
          I remember as a kid reading how big the largest Australian Outback station was. It didn’t mean very much until I read that it was about half the size of the South Island. That was a great deal more real than the quoted numbers of square miles.

  19. Rodel 20

    Another bit of useful/less information.We are not small.
    In Land area NZ is more than twice as big as England and 11% bigger than the whole of the UK.

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