Open mike 11/08/2016

116 comments on “Open mike 11/08/2016 ”

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1. Morrissey 1

   11 August 2016 at 7:23 am

   A Note of Hope

   Leena Al-Arian, 27 July 2016

   So this happened today at Barnes & Noble: I went to take the kids to meet the Paw Patrol characters and this nice man approached me, told me how beautiful the girls are, and conveyed a heartfelt apology for the general anti-Muslim sentiment in our society today. He had tears in his eyes and told me that it must be so hard to turn on the news, that he feels awful about the bigotry my kids might one day experience, and that as a Jewish man whose parents didn’t speak any English growing up, he personally understands what it feels like to be rejected and discriminated against. I asked if I could give him a hug (he looked like he needed one more than me, but I guess I needed one too) and he wanted to reassure me that most Americans are decent people who don’t hate people like me or believe what they hear on the news. He then told me he’s turning 90 on Friday and insisted on buying each of the kids a present as a gift for himself and so they can have something to remember him by. I told him we should just take a picture instead so I can tell them the story one day (he accepted) but insisted on buying them gifts anyway afterwards.

   Read more….
   http://normanfinkelstein.com/2016/08/04/if-we-could-just-load-the-one-percent-of-earthling-monsters-on-a-one-way-spaceship-to-pluto-the-world-would-be-a-beautiful-place/
   • te reo putake 1.1

     11 August 2016 at 7:39 am

     Nice way to start the day, Morrissey. I think most people are fundamentally decent and will show that when the opportunity arises.
   • Grumpy 1.2

     11 August 2016 at 8:06 am

     Sorry Morrissey, but not quite the lovely story you were hoping for
     https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/08/jewish-man-apologizes-to-muslim-woman-for-bigotry-she-turns-out-to-be-jihad-supporter
     • te reo putake 1.2.1

       11 August 2016 at 8:39 am

       Hmm, smear by association? And it doesn’t change the essence of the story anyway.
     • marty mars 1.2.2

       11 August 2016 at 9:47 am

       The sicko comments on that story tell the real story.
       • grumpy 1.2.2.1

         11 August 2016 at 10:14 am

         Politics (especially US are a bit of a concern at present).
     • weka 1.2.3

       11 August 2016 at 10:39 am

       “Sorry Morrissey, but not quite the lovely story you were hoping for”

       Yeah it is. Her father is allegedly a convicted terrorist. But she isn’t. All I can see from that article is that she was a radical student when younger. Is that a definition of terrorist now? 🙄 So the story works even better if she comes from a family that is radicalised into violence but she herself isn’t. That’s how we create peace, by creating respectful relationships with people who are different from us.

       I also noticed the misogyny in that article, that she is acceptable as a nice little wifey but not if she is overtly political.
2. Morrissey 2

   11 August 2016 at 7:32 am

   Bernie Sanders Denounces Brazil’s Impeachment
   as Undemocratic, Calls for New Elections
   by Glenn Greenwald , The Intercept, Aug. 10 2016

   VERMONT SENATOR BERNIE Sanders yesterday denounced in harsh terms the impeachment of Brazil’s democratically elected president. As the Brazilian Senate heads toward a final vote later this month, Sanders described his position, set forth in a statement posted on his Senate site, as “calling on the United States to take a definitive stand against efforts to remove Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff from office.” He added: “To many Brazilians and observers the controversial impeachment process more closely resembles a coup d’état.”

   Sanders also condemned the unelected center-right coalition under Michel Temer that has seized power during Rousseff’s suspension and is now trying to install themselves through 2018. “After suspending Brazil’s first female president on dubious grounds, without a mandate to govern,” he said, ” the new interim government abolished the ministry of women, racial equality and human rights” and “replaced a diverse and representative administration with a cabinet made up entirely of white men.” They are now attempting to implement radical policies that could never be democratically ratified: “impose austerity, increase privatization and install a far right-wing social agenda.”

   Sanders’ statement comes as Brazil’s elites – virtually unified in favor of Dilma’s impeachment – have taken extraordinary (and almost comically futile) measures during the Olympics to hide from the domestic public, and the world, how deeply unpopular Temer is. ….

   Read more…
   https://theintercept.com/2016/08/09/as-temer-weakens-sanders-denounces-brazils-impeachment-as-undemocratic-calls-for-new-elections/
3. Garibaldi 3

   11 August 2016 at 7:42 am

   Just a comment on yesterdays thread for all you people who are backing Clinton. The bad news for you is CV is right. Sure , Trump is totally unsuitable but Clinton… she will promise anything but it’s not words that count , it’s her actions. Look at her track record— she is nothing but a tool of big money ,corruption and the military. If she gets in you can expect full on war with Russia ( because of American aggression ). Just look who’s getting in behind Clinton … it’s bloody obvious.
   I don’t know the answer to the shit this dying empire is getting us into but I do know Hillary Clinton is not the answer that any of us want.
   • Ben 3.1

     11 August 2016 at 8:33 am

     ” Trump is totally unsuitable…”

     Yet 9% of NZers prefer him, versus 7% for Little.
     • aerobubble 3.1.1

       11 August 2016 at 11:33 am

       Little aint saying anything to get anyone onboard, Trump does, the wackos and assorted nuts are loving him. Look what reallt puzzles me is Congress, wht havent they started impeachment yet, doesn’t matter which wins, Congress is going to impeach them.

       Reminds me of G.W.B stole the election, was loathed, did absolutely nothing but play golf and dig holes on his ranch, only then to have missed all the reports on Bin Laden, it was not until 9/11 that America got a president, whose agemda was spending taxes oncontractors in Iraq by removing the army.

       Watch yourself America, unpopular Presidents need grandstanding events to get popular.
   • Ad 3.2

     11 August 2016 at 10:46 am

     What was the question then?
   • Chooky 3.3

     11 August 2016 at 3:39 pm

     +100 Garibaldi…and more on Hillary !

     ‘#PayToPlay: Hillary Clinton faces corruption scandal after links between donors & State Dept exposed’

     https://www.rt.com/usa/355447-clinton-emails-state-department-foundation/

     …”A number of emails that the former first lady failed to turn over to the US government, but were released after a Freedom of Information Act request, show donors and associates of the Clinton Foundation and its Global Initiative seemingly having special access inside the State Department.

     The conservative group Judicial Watch released 296 pages of unseen State Department records Tuesday, including 44 previously unreleased emails…
4. Puckish Rogue 4

   11 August 2016 at 8:27 am

   I wouldn’t have thought a nurse would fall for this:

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/83046590/australian-midwife-given-suspended-jail-sentence-after-nearly-starving-her-baby-to-death
   • Psycho Milt 4.1

     11 August 2016 at 10:09 am

     A nurse probably wouldn’t, but midwifery’s another story – it seems to attract a significant proportion of nut jobs.
     • Rosemary McDonald 4.1.1

       11 August 2016 at 10:25 am

       You must have had some seriously awful experiences with the midwives who supported you through pregnancy, labour and the post partum period PM for you to make such a negative sweeping generalisation.

       Wishing healing and peace to you sister. 🙂
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         11 August 2016 at 10:41 am

         Lol.

         PM’s comment was out and out bigotry (ignorant bigotry I’d guess).
         • crashcart 4.1.1.1.1

           11 August 2016 at 11:08 am

           Totally agree. Our Midwife trained a number of others while over seeing our pregnancies. All of them were fantastic, dedicated professionals. In the second pregnancy because of severe complications she was not able to directly oversee the birth however even though she wasn’t getting paid she showed up late at night and supported us through the birth.
           • Rosemary McDonald 4.1.1.1.1.1

             11 August 2016 at 11:56 am

             Oh god! How tempting it is to have a “if it wasn’t for my midwife…” session!

             However, it’s academic…

             http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/1662/Thesis_fulltext.pdf;jsessionid=1A555AD39D5789A0462C993096F73B60?sequence=1

             Midwifery as Feminist Praxis
             in
             Aotearoa/New Zealand
             RUTH JOY SURTEES

             “This thesis highlights the ways in which the practices of contemporary midwives in
             Aotearoa/New Zealand are caught within the intersection of an array of competing
             discourses. The context for this is the reconstruction of midwifery in Aotearoa/New Zealand
             as an autonomous feminist profession founded on partnership with women. Interviews and
             participant observation with midwives, based mainly in one New Zealand city, are the basis of
             an analysis of the complexity of midwives’ praxis as professionals. The analysis draws on
             insights from critical and feminist approaches to Foucault’s theories of discourse, power and
             the subject. It includes discussion of the conditions which came to produce and authorise the
             concept of ‘partnership’. Which subjects can speak about partnership, and when? What claims
             are made about it? What challenges it? ”

             Builds on much work done over the years recording and analysing the largely patriarchy dominated politics of childbirth.

             It’s all about power…..
             • Psycho Milt …

               11 August 2016 at 12:16 pm

               From the abstract, it appears to be all about po-mo bullshit.
         • Psycho Milt 4.1.1.1.2

           11 August 2016 at 12:21 pm

           PM’s comment was out and out bigotry (ignorant bigotry I’d guess).

           It’s based on a pretty small sample of midwives, yes. News stories like the above one tend to back up the evidence of my admittedly-small sample, however.
           • Rosemary McDonald 4.1.1.1.2.1

             11 August 2016 at 12:38 pm

             “It’s based on a pretty small sample of midwives, yes.”

             Exactly how many midwives have you personally sampled, PM?

             Oh, and explain “po-mo”….I freely admit to ignorance on that….

             “Bullshit”, I get. 🙂
             • Psycho Milt …

               11 August 2016 at 1:20 pm

               Your conviction that one must have experienced a pregnancy to know whether a midwife’s opinion on something is wildly irrational or not lacks an evidential basis.

               Po-mo is short for post-modernism, in this case postmodernist philosophy. It’s often used as shorthand to refer to writing that uses academic-sounding jargon to obfuscate rather than explain.
               • Rodel …

                 11 August 2016 at 8:16 pm

                 Po mo- post modernism- is rubbish which is infecting academics (often French or American) who have a lot to say about nothing. I met one once. ..Pretentious emptiness to the extreme
                 For more information look at http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/dawkins.html
           • weka 4.1.1.1.2.2

             11 August 2016 at 12:42 pm

             Bet you can’t see where the prejudice is though.
             • Psycho Milt …

               11 August 2016 at 1:30 pm

               I admit to a very strong prejudice against irrationalists.
               • TheExtremist …

                 11 August 2016 at 2:13 pm

                 Agree
               • weka …

                 11 August 2016 at 2:18 pm

                 You think midwives are irrationalists?

                 That would be like me saying that doctors are rapists because there are some doctors who sexually abuse their patients. That’s me signposting to the problems with your position, not just the obvious one but the trickier political ones too. There is a deeper level of prejudice going on that culturally sanctions the damage that the medical profession does and tolerates, yet pillories the midwifery profession for mistakes that midwives make. There are some pretty murky gender politics in there around power and who we trust.
                 • Rosemary McDonald …

                   11 August 2016 at 2:42 pm

                   weka…save it. PM will never get it.

                   ….hasn’t evolved enough.

                   I remember reading a novel in the eighties set in a busy US hospital.

                   Young interns gasping in awe and wonder that a woman had actually given birth without the benefit of anaesthesia, analgesia or forceps.

                   And, shock horror, the mother was alive! The baby was alive!
                   And, by god the baby was spontaneously breastfeeding!
                   And, and , all was well despite the Doctors not being able to do anything (because the woman had eaten and couldn’t be anaesthetised) other than catch the baby.

                   Goodness gracious me…how on earth did humanity survive before the word “obstetrician” was invented?
                 • Psycho Milt …

                   11 August 2016 at 2:48 pm

                   You think midwives are irrationalists?

                   That would be silly. Two of my kids were delivered by midwives, who were both highly competent, practical people and did a great job. The only one of mine that was delivered by a doctor in a hospital was dead, so you won’t hear any disparaging of midwife competence from me – the doctor/midwife success ratio in my own life overwhelmingly supports midwifery.

                   My comment was that midwifery “seems to attract a significant proportion of nut jobs,” ie in my experience (the above-mentioned births, multiple sets of ante-natal classes, serving the ones undergoing training at my institution, individuals I’ve known who’ve taken up the profession) a higher proportion of them are irrationalists than in other professions. That’s still a low proportion overall.
                   • Rosemary McDonald …

                     11 August 2016 at 3:30 pm

                     “…midwifery “seems to attract a significant proportion of nut jobs,”

                     Hmmm…I remember at varsity in the late seventies the psychology majors having a preponderance of ‘nut jobs’ in their ranks.

                     We (the non- nut jobs) wondered if they were drawn to psychology as a way of working through their own psychological issues.

                     My midwife, for all three kids, was trained in the Netherlands and was one of the first Independent Midwives in the country. Forever grateful I am for her saving No.1 son from the unnecessary forceps delivery demanded by the hospital specialist…for whom speed of delivery was the priority…there was a golf game waiting for him…I kid ye not.

                     Most of the early independent midwives (the eighties) were true professionals…which sometimes upset “home – birth societies”. These groups were often former hippies who eschewed all medical intervention for anything, and took umbrage when this midwife arrived bearing not only the obligatory birthing stool, but the newborn resuscitation equipment. She was, for this one ‘crime of medicalisation’, blacklisted by the Society. I imagine the forerunners of the nut jobs you are talking about are the midwives that were accepted by these groups.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.2

     11 August 2016 at 11:40 am

     I think the naturopath needs to be held to account there as well. It seems to me that she held a position of power of the woman and used it inappropriately.
     • Puckish Rogue 4.2.1

       11 August 2016 at 12:17 pm

       I agree
     • McFlock 4.2.2

       11 August 2016 at 12:46 pm

       “Bodnar has been charged with reckless grevious bodily harm”.

       Why practising medicine without a license isn’t added to the list I have no idea.
       • weka 4.2.2.1

         11 August 2016 at 2:20 pm

         Probably because she wasn’t practicing medicine, and to charge her with that would create massive problems legally regarding the large number of health care providers who aren’t medical ones.

         I agree she should be charged with something though, and her professional body (if she has one) needs a bloody good rark up.
         • McFlock 4.2.2.1.1

           11 August 2016 at 2:38 pm

           Yeah, (evidence base aside) the semantic difference between “practicing medicine” and giving assurances on what to do “if you want to see him better” is lost on me.

           And if she was getting any sort of payment she should be done for fraud.
           • weka 4.2.2.1.1.1

             11 August 2016 at 7:26 pm

             Fortunately it’s not lost on the justice system. Unless one wants to ban all non-medical health care, then there is a distinction between helping people with their health and practicing medicine. This is important because most healthcare in the world is done by non-medical people.

             I hope they throw every book they can at that naturopath.
5. Sanctuary 5

   11 August 2016 at 8:31 am

   I wonder if the sevens losing and the generally dismal performance of our over-rated Olympians will finally puncture the miasma of self delusional complacency and smug self satisfaction of our middle class?

   Nothing like shattering the assumptions of racial superiority of our settler class to get them whining about everything else as well.
   • Puckish Rogue 5.1

     11 August 2016 at 8:39 am

     “Nothing like shattering the assumptions of racial superiority of our settler class to get them whining about everything else as well.”

     huh?
     • BM 5.1.1

       11 August 2016 at 9:00 am

       Apparently Sanctuary spent six months in Europe and know considers himself so much more enlightened than us backward, uncultured proles and it’s become his duty to point this out where ever he goes.

       Lots of eye rolling and what a wanker, seems to be the general response.
       • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1

         11 August 2016 at 9:08 am

         I have to say its one of the more mean-spirited comments I’ve read on here and I wasn’t sure the point he was trying to make (if any)
   • Gabby 5.2

     11 August 2016 at 6:51 pm

     You reckon it’s down to all them Murrays, do you?
6. North 6

   11 August 2016 at 9:07 am

   And nicely BM, you never fail to make Sanctuary’s point.
   • Puckish Rogue 6.1

     11 August 2016 at 9:11 am

     Well it seems a bit churlish to have a go at the athletes, I’m sure they went out there and did their best and its hardly the athletes fault the media went overboard on the medal chances
     • mauī 6.1.1

       11 August 2016 at 9:26 am

       I think you missed his point too, he wasn’t having a go at the athletes.
       • Puckish Rogue 6.1.1.1

         11 August 2016 at 9:31 am

         “generally dismal performance” sure sounds like hes having a go at the athletes
         • marty mars 6.1.1.1.1

           11 August 2016 at 9:54 am

           Read the rest – the target is very plain.
           • Puckish Rogue 6.1.1.1.1.1

             11 August 2016 at 10:01 am

             I know he thinks hes making a point but really hes just coming off sounding like a bit of a twat
             • marty mars …

               11 August 2016 at 10:04 am

               We all have our wee ways of making our points.
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 11 August 2016 at 10:24 am

                 It was a pretty pointless point then
                 • marty mars …

                   11 August 2016 at 10:50 am

                   Perhaps a ptretty pointless point puck but a pretty pointless point perfectly pertaining to the point.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     11 August 2016 at 11:12 am

                     Possibly a pertinent point, probably a petty point, pretty much purposeless
             • Draco T Bastard …

               11 August 2016 at 11:42 am

               You come across as someone who knows he fucked up but won’t admit it.
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 11 August 2016 at 11:50 am

                 “generally dismal performance of our over-rated Olympians ” please tell me how that isn’t an attack on the athletes?
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   11 August 2016 at 12:04 pm

                   Who do you think is over-rating the athletes?

                   HINT: It’s not the athletes.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     11 August 2016 at 12:07 pm

                     Ok so sure the media have played them up but generally dismal is certainly harsh and uncalled for, the Olympics aren’t halfway over yet and I’m pretty sure that all of the athletes there have put in their best efforts

                     So you’ve got some reject from sociology 101 insulting athletes just to make some point about the middle class
       • weka 6.1.1.2

         11 August 2016 at 10:43 am

         I don’t get the point, maybe someone could explain?
7. Alan 7

   11 August 2016 at 9:34 am

   sanctuary, very sad man or woman, whatever
   • Sanctuary 7.1

     11 August 2016 at 12:36 pm

     I am sad because I don’t particularly derive my sense of identity from sport? Your the sad sack, chum.
     • Gangnam Style 7.1.1

       11 August 2016 at 1:08 pm

       “I am sad because I don’t particularly derive my sense of identity from sport?” Totally! Had a customer abuse some staff & when I went to intervene it turned out he was pissed off at the 7s losing! & then on my way home I had dumb radio jocks saying Mark Todd had “let down New Zealand.”
8. James 8

   11 August 2016 at 9:37 am

   “Nothing like shattering the assumptions of racial superiority of our settler class to get them whining about everything else as well.”

   Sadly this actually sums up the believe of some people.

   Im thinking a good, hard, honest look in the mirror would help sanctuary.
   • Stuart Munro 8.1

     11 August 2016 at 9:58 am

     Judging by the response Sanctuary made a palpable hit. Did the cap fit?
     • Alan 8.1.1

       11 August 2016 at 9:59 am

       Stuart, equally sad
       • Stuart Munro 8.1.1.1

         11 August 2016 at 10:02 am

         Meh – if it burns the RWNJ trolls so antisocial they have to hang out here rather than on Whalefail where they belong so much the better.
     • James 8.1.2

       11 August 2016 at 10:04 am

       Nope. Not at all. Im really happy with life and have little to whine about. Having said that I notice you do a lot – perhaps it was your cap?
       • Stuart Munro 8.1.2.1

         11 August 2016 at 10:08 am

         If that were true you’d be off rubbing shoulders with your fellow rightwingers instead of trying to impose your sad lack of character and morality here.

         Of course I’m unhappy – you criminal arseholes are wrecking my country and hurting my people.
         • BM 8.1.2.1.1

           11 August 2016 at 10:10 am

           Who are your people, Stuart.?
           • Stuart Munro 8.1.2.1.1.1

             11 August 2016 at 10:15 am

             My people are the real New Zealanders.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               11 August 2016 at 10:29 am

               🙂
             • Chuck …

               11 August 2016 at 10:53 am

               Without the Chinese sounding surnames!
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 11 August 2016 at 11:04 am

                 I’ve found his theme music, it only needs a couple of minor tweaks
                 • Stuart Munro …

                   11 August 2016 at 12:19 pm

                   You probably sing that in the shower you yankee sellout.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     11 August 2016 at 1:31 pm

                     I’m not bragging but this more like my showers
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     11 August 2016 at 2:47 pm

                     I think most people here would prefer not to know what you do in the shower PR.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     11 August 2016 at 2:49 pm

                     You brought it up remember 😉
         • Alan 8.1.2.1.2

           11 August 2016 at 10:21 am

           “you criminal arseholes” – so you believe that everyone that doesn’t vote left is a criminal arsehole?
           • Stuart Munro 8.1.2.1.2.1

             11 August 2016 at 10:29 am

             Not everyone – but certainly the major players in this government, and their more vociferous supporters are.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               11 August 2016 at 10:39 am

               Damn straight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_people
         • James 8.1.2.1.3

           11 August 2016 at 10:38 am

           So you infer that Im a criminal – any evidence to back this up?

           BTW – the country in general is going just fine and most agree with that (see polls re country direction).

           As for hurting “your” people. Im guessing if they are bitter, sad, people like yourself – it sounds more like self harm.

           You should seek help.
           • Stuart Munro 8.1.2.1.3.1

             11 August 2016 at 12:21 pm

             No – you are merely a probable criminal. You are poorly socialised, antisocial, and prefer the views and company of criminals. If we were profiling you’d be a good bet, but you may not in fact be a criminal.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               11 August 2016 at 1:56 pm

               You should offer your services to the Labour party, you’d be a hit coming up with slogans 🙂
               • Stuart Munro …

                 11 August 2016 at 2:44 pm

                 Yeah and you should offer yours to the reptilian infiltrators – but I guess you already have you treacherous piece of shite.
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   11 August 2016 at 2:52 pm

                   That’s the thing about democracy I guess, its great until right up until a party you don’t like gets voted in 🙂
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     11 August 2016 at 3:11 pm

                     You don’t know or care shit about democracy.

                     You could learn something here

                     http://robertounger.com/english/pdfs/demore.pdf

                     But in general RWNJ are irredeemably corrupt.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     11 August 2016 at 4:15 pm

                     Oh Stuart you poor, misguided, fool, the majority of NZ voters gave enough votes for National to be the largest (by a great margin) party in NZ nad were able to form a government and will continue to do so until 2020

                     You only really like democracy (and be honest) when the party you support is in power

                     But don’t worry 2020 isn’t that far away 🙂
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     12 August 2016 at 2:56 pm

                     This is where you show your true colours, fascist.

                     Democracy consists in government listening to and acting upon the concerns of its citizens.

                     It does not consist of manipulating media and disenfranchising voters to secure a bare majority to facilitate the plunder of public assets.

                     This is not a democratic government, and you are, and always were nothing more than a despicable authoritarian, a vile satrap, a despot.

                     Shame on you!
                 • James …

                   11 August 2016 at 3:02 pm

                   Mr Munro – you make my day. It makes me happy that people like you are so miserable – because the way you interact with people you disagree with – you deserve it.

                   There are plenty of lefties on here that make really interesting comments – you on the other hand add nothing to the quality of debate, and to be perfectly honest are the kind of example that will give the standard a bad name.

                   With comments like yours, and others who have posted things like “hang yourself”, and the people who (it appears from some post) to have made this a unhappy place for women to comment – it is disappointing that the comments section of this blog are making this blog IMHO a poorer place.

                   It is interesting that people often spew at Wh….O.. blog and the comments there – indeed they were terrible (and a lot of his post) – but credit where credit is due – he cleaned up his act. You sir – are the opposite and are making tis blog worse.

                   Why dont we all try to raise the game and drop the insults – and try to respect the place a bit more.
                   • srylands …

                     11 August 2016 at 3:09 pm

                     I was once optimistic that commentators here would change. But on reflection, the vile rudeness on display simply reflects the personalities and life outlook of these people. There is nothing that can be done. They don’t want to change and don’t want to hear any ideas that challenge their deeply pessimistic world view, and tendency to blame both the Government and “rich’ people for every real or imagined problem they see.
                   • marty mars …

                     11 August 2016 at 3:12 pm

                     Nah James Stuart is a good commenter imo – for proof look at all the buzzy bugs disturbed by his pithy comments. Lump it if you don’t like it James.
                   • marty mars …

                     11 August 2016 at 3:19 pm

                     Oh sly why hang around then – you won’t be missed if you go – I’d recommend it.
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     11 August 2016 at 3:19 pm

                     There is no discussing with you, you are not sincere. You are here to prevent conversation, to disseminate fictions and to cause trouble.

                     You disgust me – you and your fellow trolls – you are a form of pollution, both of blogs and of the world at large.

                     I don’t go on RWNJ sites attempting to impose my views on the participants. That would be arrogant and illmannered. Such considerations do not appear to trouble you.

                     Do not pretend to be a ‘plausible righty’ there is no such thing.
                   • Leftie …

                     11 August 2016 at 3:24 pm

                     Well said Marty Mars and Stuart Munro.
                   • te reo putake …

                     11 August 2016 at 3:32 pm

                     Hi, James.

                     There has been a concerted effort by the moderators here in recent months to encourage positive discussions and to discourage pointless abuse. However, robust debate is often the norm and sometimes it’s witty, intelligent and enlightening. Sometimes it’s way too personal, which is a drag.

                     But overall, the site enjoys a huge readership, a lively commentariat and some of the best political bloggers in NZ writing posts. It won’t always to be to your taste, but you should take heart that there are many right of centre commenters who are regulars here and who generally get a fair go.

                     So I welcome your call to minimise the abuse. However, I think that’s already happening in a very meaningful way and that TS is the better for it. it won’t be perfect and all of us are capable of letting our frustration get the better of us, but I genuinely think we’re heading in the right direction.
                   • Psycho Milt …

                     11 August 2016 at 4:57 pm

                     You disgust me – you and your fellow trolls – you are a form of pollution, both of blogs and of the world at large.

                     Oh, very persuasive. There’s no comments thread that can’t be improved by a steadfast refusal to see people who disagree with you as fellow humans, right?

                     I don’t go on RWNJ sites attempting to impose my views on the participants. That would be arrogant and illmannered.

                     Given your commenting style, it certainly would be. On the other hand, if you tried stringing together an actual argument once in a while, you might find those right-wing sites interesting places to visit – hanging out only with people you agree with is corrosive of your reasoning skills.
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     11 August 2016 at 8:38 pm

                     @PM – I don’t come here to demonstrate my reasoning skills to the nuts – if they had any to speak of they wouldn’t be nuts.

                     It has to do with the epidemiology of movements – Key’s strategy guys know all about this stuff – that’s why they shut down Campbell. Semantic warfare.
     • Sanctuary 8.1.3

       11 August 2016 at 12:25 pm

       “…BTW – the country in general is going just fine and most agree with that (see polls re country direction)…”

       If I had a dollar for everytime some idiot said “NZ is a great little place that punches above it’s weight and is doing just fine” I’d be a rich man indeed. It is a line particularly peddled by Mike Hoskings. Now, to me this opinion can only be founded on smugly racist assumptions about some sort of cultural and/or racial superiority on our part that makes us somehow exceptional. A set of smug assumptions and myths about New Zealand exceptionalism – NZ is paradise, a great place to have a family and bring up kids, is egalitarian, and it punches above it’s weight – underlay the belief system of our middle class and act as rationalising tool to explain away our filthy rivers, our child poverty, our massive domestic violence problems, our massive wealth disparity and our poor economic performance.

       Sport is an important bulwark of these middle class myths. Racist assertions of sporting prowess and success are seen as vindications of the existing social and economic order, just like it was with rugby in racist South Africa. Sport has always been a powerful propaganda tool. The fact is the successes of our Olympic team will be used by cheerleaders of the current system as proof we are on the right track. Failure, I would hope, will serve to do the opposite.

       By the way – I think our athletes will do about as well as you’d expect from a modestly funded program from one of the poorer first world countries. The idea we are a genetically superior, outdoor bred, virile Aryan super nation of athletic over-achievers is rubbish.
       • Gangnam Style 8.1.3.1

         11 August 2016 at 1:12 pm

         “a great place to have a family and bring up kids” yeah hear that a lot, & in NZ we have had a 5 year commit suicide! But nah all good, nothing to whine about, the sun is shining, the Chiefs are wonderful role models for our young men etc…(sarc).
       • Puckish Rogue 8.1.3.2

         11 August 2016 at 1:57 pm

         🙂
9. save nz 9

   11 August 2016 at 9:55 am

   Netherlands Closes Prisons due to Shortage of Criminals

   http://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/netherlands-closes-prisons-due-to-shortage-of-criminals/
   • ianmac 9.1

     11 August 2016 at 11:10 am

     A policy of rehabilitation, hope, post jail employment, diversion and cooperation from Media to stop filling us with dreadful over-inflated crime reports.
     But with the insistent push for bigger punishment, longer sentences, ethnic targeting, and political pandering, it would take very brave politicians to make a move to get us down from such high rates of imprisonments.
     All hail the Netherlands.
     Wonder of their decriminalisation of some drugs had an effect?
   • Adrian 9.2

     11 August 2016 at 12:17 pm

     A relly has just joined the Dutch police as a forensic accountant from KPMG where he did the same job.
     He reckons they are arsedeep in white collar fraud there and he will never be out of a job.
     It just takes forever to nail the bastards.
     His best story? Sitting opposite a bloke , and while the relly was pretty sure it was a computing mistake, watching the guys face and asking ” So where’s the missing 75 trillion ?” . Priceless.
     P.S, I asked 75 trillion? indisbelief, and he said that was not an unusual amount to be dealing with, it only needs to be out of sight for a few hours for somebody to make a shitload. We’re still in kindy in this country.
10. save nz 10

    11 August 2016 at 10:24 am

    These 50 Images Capture The Rare Beauty Of Rio’s Street Art Scene

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/street-art-tour-rio-de-janeiro-olympics_us_57a8d469e4b0aae2a5a0bcda
    • ianmac 10.1

      11 August 2016 at 11:02 am

      Incredible save nz. In much misery there is room for much colour.
    • Chooky 10.2

      11 August 2016 at 3:58 pm

      a visual feast…thanks!
    • Rodel 10.3

      11 August 2016 at 8:25 pm

      Snz -Thanks for that. Another place Valpariso has such amazing street art. Our ‘graffiti artist ‘ kids should be sent there to see how it’s done.
11. Rosemary McDonald 11

    11 August 2016 at 10:45 am

    Now, for some GOOD news.

    The other evening I shared this….
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/faces-of-innocents/82699004/Ministry-for-Vulnerable-Children-name-stigmatising-and-labelling

    in which the new Children’s Commissioner diplomatically throws down the gauntlet to the Gummint on the ‘re-structuring’ of CYFs.

    The name “Ministry for Vulnerable Children has gone down like a cup of cold sick with, well, practically everyone.

    Becroft describes it as “…stigmatising and labelling.

    It is depressing, even crushing. It focuses on the problem not the solution. We do not call the Ministry of Health the “Ministry of Sick People”.”

    Fairfax did a poll, and Becroft promises to make sure the Gummint knows what folk think of the new name.

    Hope springs that this latest ‘re-structuring’ is going to get more active attention from the Children’s watchdog.

    And then another article…http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83021330/raise-the-youth-justice-age-mps-told-at-evidence-hearing-for-cyf-overhaul

    ….and the CC again taking issue with the Gummint (through the Select Committee) that the new legislation which will guide the ‘re-structuring’ has…

    “”…missed the opportunity” to go far enough.

    Becroft, the former Principal Youth Court Judge, took issue with four aspects of the proposed legislation. He called for the Youth Justice Age to be raised to 17, and said the bill did not go far enough in giving the child’s voice weight.

    “The change half-step, and not full-step, to include Youth Justice seems to us to be burdensome, and it will add administrative complexity, it’s wrong in principle and it’s in flat flagrant breach of the United Nations Convention obligations.

    The terms surrounding the creation of a new advocacy system for children were weak, and “delegation powers”, which would allow certain non-Government social workers to uplift children from their families, was concerning.

    “Some very invasive state powers have been vested into those whom the chief executive might delegate those powers to, with very little prescription.

    “There are dangers in leaving such significant discretionary powers to be developed behind the scenes, non-transparently, by policy make”‘

    If there is a god who strengthens the resolve of Government appointed Commissioners….

    Andrew Becroft….good on you sir!
    • Gangnam Style 11.1

      11 August 2016 at 1:17 pm

      Can’t remember when but a week or so ago had one of the resident righties (Chuck?) supporting the name change when I made disparaging remarks, I thought that you could rename the ministries with a bunch of more imaginative titles & the title of ‘Ministry of Vulnerable Children’ is just bizarre.
12. adam 12

    11 August 2016 at 12:09 pm

    Can’t but help agreeing with the Auckland Action Against Poverty on this one. The bullying nature of Work and Income, and its failed policies – are just not working.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/08/11/auckland-action-against-poverty-uni-research-highlights-deficiencies-in-govt-job-policies/
    • Tiger Mountain 12.1

      11 August 2016 at 12:53 pm

      yep, many people do everything they can to avoid WINZ since the old social security turned into the current sadistic punishment maze, ever wonder why some of the local beggars are getting more insistent?

      it is time for some direct action by and for the homeless too–organised squats in proven long term empty private and state houses and moneybags boats in marinas too

      WINZ needs to be urgently retired in favour of some form of UBI, and in the meantime the PSA could stop accepting as members govt. staff in WINZ and MSD that spend their working day making other citizens lives a misery–“I am only following orders–doing my job”–should not cut it in this instance
      • Gangnam Style 12.1.1

        11 August 2016 at 1:19 pm

        I don’t have much fear of actually losing my job, but I do have fear about ever having to visit WINZ because of job loss, so their actions are working as they scare workers like me (& because of technology my job is in constant flux like most people I suppose.)
        • Tiger Mountain 12.1.1.1

          11 August 2016 at 2:56 pm

          you are correct gangnam and it is scary for many others who could just do with some short term assistance that often their taxes have paid for, endless condescending seminars on how to write a CV, losing your documents etc. blaming you personally for the changing nature of work…

          and income splitting is needed for couples, WINZ will not pay job seeker support if say one partner loses their job if they are living in a relationship of the ‘nature of a marriage’

          WINZ is meant to be a nasty experience as the Household Labourforce Survey has long shown–there are more unemployed people than people actually in receipt of “jobseeker support”, and as signalled by the departments classic “Catch 22”, WINZ staff can be rewarded for denying the very assistance they are meant to supply!, and for applying sanctions and getting people off the books inclusive of paying and or receiving a fee to and from ACC and MSD…
13. Ad 13

    11 August 2016 at 12:50 pm

    I really enjoyed this one for how fickle and cosmically unjust campaign coverage can be in determining U.S. Presidential races:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/film-how-to-destroy-a-presidential-candidate/
14. grumpy 14

    11 August 2016 at 1:48 pm

    Finally the MSM, but not yet in US, is starting to catch on
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3726250/Enemies-Hillary-Bill-say-27-year-old-murder-victim-Seth-Rich-suspected-leaking-DNC-emails-belongs-Clinton-Death-List-people-ties-couple-died-time.html
    • Chooky 14.1

      11 August 2016 at 3:54 pm

      +100…yes this is good that the MSM is starting to take notice …it should be there to protect democracy after all! ..this is what the MSM has traditionally been stated as being for
    • Sabine 14.2

      11 August 2016 at 4:57 pm

      not sure who is right, but the family would like for people to stop spreading this rumor.

      but then they must be paid of by the clinton machine.

      http://www.businessinsider.com.au/dnc-seth-rich-wikileaks-politicize-2016-8?r=US&IR=T

      “In a statement to Business Insider on Wednesday, Rich family spokesperson Brad Bauman thanked investigators and implored high-profile figures to stop attempting to “politicize” Rich’s death by perpetuating unfounded theories about the shooting.

      “The family welcomes any and all information that could lead to the identification of the individuals responsible, and certainly welcomes contributions that could lead to new avenues of investigation,” Bauman said in the statement.

      He added:

      “That said, some are attempting to politicize this horrible tragedy, and in their attempts to do so, are actually causing more harm that good and impeding on the ability for law enforcement to properly do their job. For the sake of finding Seth’s killer, and for the sake of giving the family the space they need at this terrible time, they are asking for the public to refrain from pushing unproven and harmful theories about Seth’s murder.””
15. Chooky 15

    11 August 2016 at 4:11 pm

    …and on the subject of the mainstream media:

    ‘NSA leaks show worries over intelligence gaps, training tips for media leaks’

    “Among the latest batch of internal NSA documents leaked by whistleblower Edward Snowden are tips for analysts on what to notice about media leaks, playing catch-up over intelligence, and medical surveillance.

    On Wednesday, The Intercept released a batch of 263 internal agency reports, called ‘SIDToday’, from the agency’s most important division, the Signals Intelligence Directorate. Dating back to 2003, the documents reveal the department’s culture and operations with a roster of tips on training analysts to spot leaks to the media, internet monitoring, and notices about seminars on Latin American countries…

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