Open Mike 11/08/2017

144 comments on “Open Mike 11/08/2017 ”

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1. Robert Guyton 1

   11 August 2017 at 6:57 am

   “National Party MP for Invercargill Sarah Dowie said she “didn’t pay too much attention” to Turei’s resignation.
   “The Left are well known for this. They are in turmoil”, Dowie said.
   “Labour and Greens are fused at the hip;it’s no surprise they are going through these leadership issues – we’re used to it”.

   The Southland Times August 11
   • Psycho Milt 1.1

     11 August 2017 at 8:00 am

     I see she’s memorised her lines well. Probably the principal requirement in her job.
     • Robert Guyton 1.1.1

       11 August 2017 at 8:13 am

       “Invercargill Labour Party candidate Liz Craig said Turei had done “tremendous work” during her tenure. “I knew Metiria when I was involved in child poverty advocacy work and I respect the heart she had for social change”. “I wanted to acknowledge the tremendous work she has done in that space over the years.”

       The Southland Times 11 August
       • Psycho Milt 1.1.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 8:57 am

         Ha! Amateurish! Sounds like no PR people were involved in developing the script at any stage – what kind of politician is that?
         • Carolyn_nth 1.1.1.1.1

           11 August 2017 at 9:06 am

           Turei was “amateurish”, “didn’t manage/control the narrative”, etc:

           These are all neoliberal managerialist technocrat values – and they ignore the power imbalance, that is ultimately a race & gender-charged class struggle.

           If she had continued campaigning against poverty and for beneficiaries, the way she has done for years, the MSM would have continued to largely ignore her. Once she started getting attaention and support for her policies and campaign, those on the side of the establishment and status quo would try to attack her, and vilify her, in any way they could.
           • Johan 1.1.1.1.1.1

             11 August 2017 at 9:46 am

             “If she had continued campaigning against poverty and for beneficiaries, the way she has done for years, the MSM would have continued to largely ignore her.”
             All these carefully crafted leaks from Turei’s past indiscretions were meant to undermine her credibility and in the end she had no choice but to resign. Calling NZF a racist party was a big mistake, Peters has many informants and knows where the bodies are buried.
             • Carolyn_nth …

               11 August 2017 at 9:49 am

               Do you have clear information that Peters was behind the attacks on Turei, or is that just speculation on your part?
               • mary_a …

                 11 August 2017 at 5:37 pm

                 @ Carolyn_nth … I stand to be corrected here, but I thought after Metiria’s public statements re calling NZF a racist party, in response Winston said something along the lines of “… there will be consequences …”

                 Whether that comment of Winston’s is partly or fully the result of the lead up to Metiria’s resignation, is anyone’s guess!
                 • Carolyn_nth …

                   11 August 2017 at 8:36 pm

                   He said the consequences would be when it comes to inter-party negotiations.

                   NZ First leader Winston Peters has bailed up Green co-leader Metiria Turei for calling him “racist”, saying such attacks would have consequences.

                   Speaking on Q+A this morning, Turei said Peters was “on a roll” partly because of “a very racist approach to immigration”.

                   “The worst of his rhetoric is coming out.”

                   In response, Peters issued a statement saying it was the Green Party which had “racially separatist policies” and appeared to warn of consequences for the Green Party in any post-election talks.
                   …
                   Turei’s comment also drew fire from NZ First MP Tracey Martin on Twitter. Martin said that by describing her as racist “you make it very difficult to sit at the table and believe it is mutually respectful”.
               • Johan …

                 11 August 2017 at 8:21 pm

                 …and I am suppose to reveal my sources? Yeah Right!
                 • Carolyn_nth …

                   11 August 2017 at 8:32 pm

                   So, as far as we an see, you’re just making it up.

                   Anyone could say anything and claim, “can’t reveal my sources”.
         • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1.2

           11 August 2017 at 9:14 am

           Clearly. Liz was even careless enough to use the words “child poverty” and “social change”! No National Party flunky MP would make an error like that!
           • McFlock 1.1.1.1.2.1

             11 August 2017 at 1:19 pm

             lol
   • Molly 1.2

     11 August 2017 at 8:26 am

     Meteria was not only was hounded for telling the truth, but she also put paid to the lie that beneficiaries could get out of their situation if they were willing to follow all the rules, and pull themselves out of poverty if they only wanted to.

     Telling the truth about her life was bad enough.

     But exposing the lie that gives comfort to many – unforgivable.
     • Tautoko Mangō Mata 1.2.1

       11 August 2017 at 11:20 am

       National Party don’t want to hear the truth. It is not in their interests to foster compassion.
   • popexplosion 1.3

     11 August 2017 at 11:01 am

     Environment goods and social goods go hand in hand. Our media sucks eggs, it’s underfunded and so useless. N.Korea will launch a nuke and explode it, in orbit. Destroying satalites, Guam is just nonsense. Kim wants respect, take him down now.
     Climate change act now before summer hits the Sun, Sun storm alter the heating reaching the Earth, to as we slowly cook ourselves like a lobster, the sun could up the heat at anytime, dicing with extinction is clueless. Nats have no answers just stay the course, whatever on tourism on housing on social on environment, it’s just a joke to them requiringbthem to fiddle the controls a little, oh and build congested roads on a volcanic field. Geez National is dumb.
   • Gabby 1.4

     11 August 2017 at 12:42 pm

     Bet she paid a bit more attention to Toddger’s departure.
     • Robert Guyton 1.4.1

       11 August 2017 at 12:46 pm

       Bosom buddies.
2. Venezia 2

   11 August 2017 at 7:16 am

   The Palms Shopping Centre Christchurch does not like getting people onto the Electoral Roll! This week I grabbed a bunch of enrolment packs and after shopping at the supermarket offered them to people in the mall as I made my way to the car park. I was on the lookout for younger people and displayed the packs in my hand. After 12 people had taken a pack, a security guard arrived to escort me from the premises. Apparently it is not allowed!! I had been picked up on a security camera. I have done this in other shopping malls in Christchurch with no problems. I am 72 years old.
   • Cinny 2.1

     11 August 2017 at 7:26 am

     Wows !!! Venezia, I admire what you are doing to encourage the youth to enroll this election.

     That’s shocking re the security guard, one would have thought they had better things to do than harrass an older women for promoting the democratic system.

     Letter to the editor of the press maybe?
     • james 2.1.1

       11 August 2017 at 1:45 pm

       Perhaps if she got permission to do this on private property first then there would not have been an issue.
       • AB 2.1.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 2:13 pm

         Interesting James. It is regarded as a public space so long as the people entering it engage in consumer behaviour – buying stuff, browsing in shops, eating coffee and muffins. You don’t need permission to come in or go out

         However if they enter this space and do other things – even things that are not illegal, intrusive, dangerous or annoying – it is suddenly private property.

         Seems to me a little bit like wanting to have your cake (or overpriced blueberry muffin) and eat it at the same time.
         • lprent 2.1.1.1.1

           11 August 2017 at 2:39 pm

           Basic law 101: A shopping centre isn’t any different from this site or for that matter for your home.

           It is private property that is often accessible to selected guests. While the community through laws and regulations impose restrictions on the owners. The owners of private property can also impose rules on guests using their property.

           It isn’t like a public road – which is the analogy that I suspect that you are straining for. That is a false analogy. And even there the the legal system. central and local government all impose limits to use. Roads may be cleared for parades. You can’t set up tables in the middle of a roadway. etc etc

           Consider that developments on private property aren’t paid for and maintained out of community funds. So the body that maintains the property is able to impose their own rules on top of whatever the community imposes upon them through the body of law.

           There is also no difference between a shopping center (or this website) and your own home. In all cases while you can allow guests to share it, you can also restrict access or make rules stop behaviors that you find objectionable.
           • Plan B 2.1.1.1.1.1

             11 August 2017 at 5:29 pm

             I think the analogy approach is wrong. By using analogy it is very easy to come up with a wrong answer. For example Government is often spoken of as if it was like a household, that it has to live within its means. As has been said, Government is only like a household with a money printing press in the basement.
             Regarding malls, malls are not like ones home, the analogy is wrong and the conclusions reach via that analogy are wrong.
             The analogy approach allows the writer to pick and choose . In this case you have chosen to say that a mall is like a home and not like a road.
             • McFlock …

               11 August 2017 at 5:37 pm

               The analogy explained the perspective of the law: a mall is private property. Anyone can be refuced access for any reason, as long as any reason given does not violated the human rights act.

               In fact, people can be escorted off public property, e.g. the Speaker of the House can trespass people from the grounds of Parliament. Universities, as arms of the Crown, can also trespass people off their campusses.
             • Gabby …

               11 August 2017 at 6:00 pm

               Are you invoking the ‘But I don’ wanna’ clause? That usually ends badly. You end up in the puffy shirt.
       • Foreign waka 2.1.1.2

         12 August 2017 at 10:06 am

         James, the owner of the shopping center and car park is AMP.
         The behavior of Venezia was in no way biased at any political party, anti competitive, intrusive, offensive or criminal. I suspect however, that who ever sat at the screen watching and/or giving the marching orders did so by “assuming” that any of the above is the case. Perhaps he/she should have checked facts and also sought response from the owner of the premise?
   • The Fairy Godmother 2.2

     11 August 2017 at 7:28 am

     I would complain to management. Go right to the top and the electoral commission. Security guards often do things like this if not properly briefed. Management will probably apologise Look what happened at the local government conference where a Maori and a Samoan delegate were challenged.
     • Venezia 2.2.1

       11 August 2017 at 11:38 am

       Apparently it was management who gave the instructions. I yesterday learned from a young person who used to work at The Palms ( now at my local Mall ) that the management there is very difficult. She used some choice language to describe them. Nothing better to do than obstruct a perfectly legal activity. I asked people “are you enrolled to vote? ” showing the enrolment pack with orange man on front. Some younger people said “just what I need” and Interesting that older people are taking packs for their grandkids. I have emailed the Electoral Commission.
       • The Fairy Godmother 2.2.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 12:06 pm

         That’s awful. Perhaps just get on with enrolling people in other locations or else if you have the energy contact local media and the electoral commission.
       • james 2.2.1.2

         11 August 2017 at 1:49 pm

         “perfectly legal activity”

         They are perfectly in their rights to ask you to leave if they want to – its their private property

         Just as they do not allow people to run around the carpark putting flyers under windscreens (unless they have permission beforehand).
         • weka 2.2.1.2.1

           11 August 2017 at 1:53 pm

           I’m sure whatever private company it is would love some publicity about how it banned an old woman from handing out enrolment forms for the election

           😈
           • james 2.2.1.2.1.1

             11 August 2017 at 1:57 pm

             a) – A lot of Malls have electoral people in them handing out forms anyway (you know proper ones).

             b) I note that the mall had forms there anyway (thats where she got them from).

             c) I note she was on the lookout for ‘younger people’ – Why not ask everybody if you are genuine – as opposed to selecting people who might be more in line with your political views.

             yeah – I think they can live with that.
             • McFlock …

               11 August 2017 at 6:36 pm

               I missed the bit in the thread where you got B from, and I’m sure venezia is a proper person.

               I think it was dickish behaviour by the mall (didn’t their ownership get council or govt money a while back? Something like that…), but yeah, they were in their rights.

               The big problem for malls is that even a portable stall or person with a clipboard is a prime moneymaker due to the foot traffic – they usually don’t mind charitable things, but just a couple of months ago I saw a salesman being escorted out because he was trying to blag what was a regular spot for charities in my local mall – I think it was Barnados or cancer foundation was waiting to set up after the delboy wannabe was finally gone.

               They sometimes have to book those school sausage sizzle spots weeks in advance, if not longer.
             • Venezia …

               11 August 2017 at 10:18 pm

               No James. I arrived with a bunch of enrolment packs, and I also picked up some more from the Post shop. I was handing them out at the furthest end of the mall away from the Post shop.
               I have noticed that you often make stuff up in order to take the mickey out of people.
       • Foreign waka 2.2.1.3

         12 August 2017 at 10:18 am

         I feel really sorry that you had to go through this undignified response. Even more reason to ask every person: are you going to vote?
     • james 2.2.2

       11 August 2017 at 1:47 pm

       Fo to the electoral commission and say what exactly?

       “Hi I dont work for you – But I was handing out your flyers without permission on private land and they asked me to leave”.
       • Venezia 2.2.2.1

         11 August 2017 at 10:19 pm

         The Electoral Commission provided me with the enrolment forms. Sent them by post actually, because I asked for them. So dont make stuff up.
         • james 2.2.2.1.1

           12 August 2017 at 2:24 pm

           Not making stuff up – you were not given permission by them to be wandering around private property handing them out.
           • Foreign waka 2.2.2.1.1.1

             12 August 2017 at 3:59 pm

             Don’t worry James, its all OK and in the green zone… the synthetic cannabis usage gets a good viewing on private car parks around the country and not to worry too much about drunks hanging out on weekends either. The fighting and submissions to hospitals is taxpayer funded so that is absolutely fine you know. Its a lot easier to mussel an elderly person, it could have been a paper cut from a template – very dangerous indeed.
             AMP, the owner of car parks near you, proudly looking after your retirement Kiwi saver fund. Just don’t get stupid ideas about handing out leaflets promoting democracy because they are concerned about the people in their twilight years. Yeah right.
   • weka 2.3

     11 August 2017 at 8:01 am

     What did they say?

     Very cool what you are doing. Like Fairy Godmother I reckon a complaint is warranted but you might be better using your time to hand out enrolments elsewhere.
     • Venezia 2.3.1

       11 August 2017 at 10:20 pm

       No reply as yet weka.
       • weka 2.3.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 10:27 pm

         I meant the security guards.
       • Macro 2.3.1.2

         11 August 2017 at 10:36 pm

         Marama Davidson is handing out enrolment forms in the queues forming outside WINZ offices. She seems to be having a great response.
         https://twitter.com/MaramaDavidson/status/895794030218321920
3. Cinny 3

   11 August 2017 at 7:21 am

   Winegrowers having a crack at labour re water, scare mongering via the national party.

   FYI, National Party hoardings at a large vineyard in our region.

   How many vineyards are also publically vocal national supporters? Anyone else out there seen national party hoardings displayed at vineyards? Are their water opinions biased much? Alcohol lobbyists mhmmmm
   • AB 3.1

     11 August 2017 at 7:54 am

     On the rare occasions I can afford to buy wine these days, I try not to buy NZ-made stuff and pretty much for this reason. Also that there is better South American, Spanish and Italian stuff at lower prices.
     • The decrypter 3.1.1

       11 August 2017 at 8:02 am

       Maybe water is free in the off shore countries you mention– “The world -according to nick.”
     • Cinny 3.1.2

       11 August 2017 at 8:14 am

       It was a bit rich listening to list Mp Maureen Pughs patsy set up sup question about water and vineyards/horiculture yesterday to Nick Smith when her hoarding is displayed at Seifrieds vineyard in Appleby.
       • The decrypter 3.1.2.1

         11 August 2017 at 8:22 am

         Nick is more into paint thinners than wine –bloody chemical companies .
     • Adrian 3.1.3

       11 August 2017 at 8:31 am

       The reason why South American wine is so cheap is that the wages paid in Chile in particular are well below survivable level. Might pay to do a bit of research before drinking. Spain and Argentina are not much better.
       Not a good choice for a leftie.
       NZ wages are at least above minimum wage level and quite often considerably above that, good pruners on contract would be above $25 hr. But it is not easy work.
       It not surprising that Nat signs are on vineyards, a lot of vineyards are on old family farms and they’ve certainly not a hotbed of left sympathisers.
       BTW, you’d be surprised how many family vineyards and wine companies are owned by Labour and Green members and supporters.
       • alwyn 3.1.3.1

         11 August 2017 at 9:30 am

         “family vineyards and wine companies are owned by Labour and Green members and supporters”.
         But of course they are. Where do you think the Chardonnay Socialists, also known as the Wadestown Wadicals of Wellington get their booze from?
         • mac1 3.1.3.1.1

           11 August 2017 at 10:19 am

           Local Labour campaigns have been financed by wine sales of such naughty little numbers as “Socialist Chardonnay”, “Political Savvy” and “Reds under the Bed”. The last had a descriptor “You will be left leaning after a bottle of this”.

           Signs in rural areas for Labour are often targeted. It’s very canine out there. Dogs hate having the smell of another on their territory.

           I remember putting up one sign on the very rural but aptly named (or so I thought) Red Post corner. Two locals in a ute drove by this sign which was 10 metres inside a private fence line. They yelled out to me that it wouldn’t last long. It, and like others like it, lasted a day.

           It was replaced with two signs. A second on another property was not replaced. The property owner told me she feared for her property as the vandals had trespassed and climbed up a water tower to do their damage.

           The ute in this story had a dog on the back. Of the three occupants, it was the least feral.
           • alwyn 3.1.3.1.1.1

             11 August 2017 at 5:59 pm

             The names of the wine sound wonderful. Is it still available or was it in a past election?
             “Reds under the beds”, AND the alternate “left leaning” description would be great to offer to some of my right leaning friends.
             Was it any good?

             I hope they had a licence to sell it though. I have vague memories of a political party that did something like this and one of their opponents tried to get them prosecuted because the candidate didn’t have a licence to sell the few dozen bottles concerned.
             The memory is so vague I can’t even remember whether it was here or when I lived in Oz. Neither can I remember which were the parties involved.

             Destruction, or defacement of signs is, unfortunately a very Kiwi habit. It doesn’t just happen to the left leaning parties. I have just come up Aro Street in Wellington and the billboards for nearly every party had some damage. Not all the billboards of course but at least one for each of them had some damage.
             • mac1 …

               11 August 2017 at 8:32 pm

               Alwyn, past elections I’m afraid, but top quality wine. Well known producer here. All my purchases consumed. Good marketing, good profit and totally legal.

               I had a beer tonight (small town, eh!) with the opposition rural bill board erecting specialist and discussed our mutual annoyance with people who deface and steal billboards. It is anti-democratic and criminal, costly and ultimately futile.

               We Kiwis have some bad habits and national traits around alcohol, driving, violence and suicide, blame, empathy and tax evasion. Otherwise it’s Godzone.
           • greywarshark 3.1.3.1.1.2

             11 August 2017 at 6:24 pm

             When I have been driving on isolated highways going through country areas the cars in the area have mostly had young men in them and I had a feeling of them being barely tamed by laws and self-discipline.
             • mac1 …

               11 August 2017 at 8:35 pm

               At my age they’re all young men. We do have a problem with exhibiting
               positive social behaviour, though.
     • james 3.1.4

       11 August 2017 at 1:51 pm

       LOL – people believe in greenhouse emissions and global warming – but buy wine shipped from 1/2way across the world.

       Just incase the local producer votes National.
       • AB 3.1.4.1

         11 August 2017 at 2:32 pm

         No James – the South American stuff is cheaper too. I’m merely being a rational, self-interested, self-maximising individual. Have you forgotten what your own ideology prescribes?
4. reason 4

   11 August 2017 at 8:47 am

   Is Winston starting to get ‘official’ recognition ….. for his stealth dispatching of key.

   ” John Key shocked the nation on December 5, resigning to hand over to English, in part because he thought it would be easier for English to do a deal with Peters.” https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/08/09/42006/metiria-jacinda-quake

   Being credited as the man who got rid of Key must be worth a rise in Winstons popularity ….

   Single handed, he did what three elections and the combined opposition were unable to ….

   When the warden of the north ………. became a genuine king slayer.

   NZ likes tough and strong leaders ……. NZF should play on this.
   • ianmac 4.1

     11 August 2017 at 9:32 am

     Also in that column reason was this about Materia.
     “I have always said I did have really fantastic support from friends and family and that Piupiu’s family really supported me especially when I was in law school with things like you know, child care, stuff like that. Like the sort of stuff that you would expect.”
     Fair enough but it mirrors what was being said about Bennett with the question added about financial support for her from her family. Wonder if that question will be explored with equal enthusiasm?
     • Johan 4.1.1

       11 August 2017 at 9:56 am

       Bennett will not reveal any info about her past, nor will Bill English about any of his 450 texts. MSM will not press these matters for obvious reasons, ie I want to keep my job: John Campbell.
     • Anne 4.1.2

       11 August 2017 at 10:59 am

       I was in a similar situation to Metiria in the 1990s ianmac. The difference being I was looking after an elderly mother who slowly succumbed to Alzheimers. There was help from family members in the early years, but as time passed resentment built and two of my siblings began to spread rumour and innuendo among the relatives. The case ended up in court but was swiftly discarded when it became evident the accusations had no truth to them. In my case, the aim of the exercise was to have my share of the estate taken from me and shared among my siblings. They failed.

       I tell the story as an example of how relatives in the heat of the moment can re-invent history – and even convince themselves its correct – without any understanding of the truth of historical and semi-historical events.

       I wonder if this is in part what happened to Metiria. I also heard her talk of the “fantastic support” she received from “PIupiu’s family”, so it looks to me like a member of that family jumped on the phone to John Campbell before checking out the substance of Metiria’s public interviews.

       If my own experiences are anything to go by, they probably had no idea how financially desperate Metiria really was at the time. I was reduced at one point to wearing old sandels with holes in the soles and the heels falling off my shoes. I couldn’t even afford to go to the Warehouse and replace them.
       • ianmac 4.1.2.1

         11 August 2017 at 2:36 pm

         A tough existence Anne but you have risen inspite of the ratbags.
         I do know of a similar one where a woman in her late teens early20s, who lived and took care of her Grandma as she succumbed to Alzheimers. When her Gran died the sons and daughters ordered her out of the house in case she claimed it for herself. Miserable beggars!
         • Anne 4.1.2.1.1

           11 August 2017 at 4:11 pm

           Same sort of paranoid group-think. In my case they convinced themselves I had manipulated my mother into gifting me the land on which my home was built. I produced legal documents to prove I paid the going rate.They forgot to check out that possibility. 😉
     • reason 4.1.3

       11 August 2017 at 11:50 am

       To true ianmac …. it was a pretty good column on the whole….. perhaps newsroom will be different than our present ‘dirty media’

       For the last 9 years Bennett got to run misinformation through our dirty ‘news media’ …. real reporters would scare her if they had a decent platform.

       I give them credit ( newsroom ), for being the first to report on winston being the cause for Johnny to run off .

       With key being neck deep in tax haven type stuff …… Winston has a good solid theme to build around …. getting rid of the corrupt king …

       But Helping to clean up the National from being the tax haven and corruption party is unfinished business for him…..
5. Xanthe 5

   11 August 2017 at 9:14 am

   Just stumbled across this news site
   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@about

   Anyone know anything about it ?

   Ah ha and its referenced in the comment above
   • ianmac 5.1

     11 August 2017 at 9:38 am

     Just received an email from Newsroom. I think they are serious about publishing serious column/research from serious journalists. (Won’t find anything from Paddy there.)
     Melanie Reid, Mark Jennings, Bernard Hickey etc.

     http://mailchi.mp/08f9d8472391/newsroom-daily-briefing?e=88a3081e75
   • Glenn 5.2

     11 August 2017 at 9:42 am

     I’ve found Newsroom reasonably unbiased and with a social conscience…something that is severely lacking in the media. Their articles on forced uplifting of children are incredibly good journalism.
     https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@taken-by-the-state
     • Xanthe 5.2.1

       11 August 2017 at 9:47 am

       Yes so far my impression is also hopeful, one to watch! Would be fantastic to have some serious journalism in NZ.

       Cautious optimism (assuming they arnt just softening us up )
       • tc 5.2.1.1

         11 August 2017 at 3:46 pm

         ex mediawonks pros hounded out by weldon and christie, aint karma wonderful.

         Jennings is a product of the abc so he knows what actual journalists should do, long overdue.
6. AsleepWhileWalking 6

   11 August 2017 at 9:16 am

   Go Taylor

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11902201

   Taylor said that she doesn’t blame her former bodyguard Greg Dent, who witnessed the assault, for not stopping Mueller, telling jurors, “I’m not critical of my bodyguard for not doing anything, I’m critical of your client [Mueller] for sticking his hand under my skirt and grabbing my ass.”
7. AsleepWhileWalking 7

   11 August 2017 at 9:38 am

   Real Estate Institute calls for Reserve Bank to loosen lending criteria on the back of *plummeting* house prices.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11902208
   • Ad 7.1

     11 August 2017 at 10:59 am

     The NZHerald is calling it a collapse in the housing market.

     I’m not sure how Labour could find an opening here, but it is a huge opening for National to simply state that they will strongly encourage the Reserve Bank to loosen monetary conditions.

     The Reserve Bank stated yesterday:

     “House price inflation continues to moderate due to loan-to-value ratio restrictions, affordability constraints, and a tightening in credit conditions.

     This moderation is expected to persist, although there remains a risk of resurgence in prices given continued strong population growth and resource constraints in the construction sector.”

     National have a big opening to reassure property owners before the election – because that is their natural base.
8. alwyn 8

   11 August 2017 at 10:06 am

   I see that The Herald is suggesting that Metiria Turei might be chosen as their New Zealander of the Year.
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11902264
   At first I thought they must be joking but when you consider the origin of the award it isn’t that unlikely.

   It is of course copied from the Time magazine “Person or the Year” (originally “Man of the Year”) and they have often had some contentious awards.
   Metiria certainly is no more unlikely than Time’s choices in 1938 or 2016.
   The one she most resembles though was the person chosen in 1936. MT to a “T”.
   http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/time-magazine-10-controversial-people-year-article-1.2040428
9. Robert Guyton 9

   11 August 2017 at 10:10 am

   Metiria “most resembles” Wallis Simpson, Alwyn?
   What do you mean?
   • Psycho Milt 9.1

     11 August 2017 at 10:52 am

     I think he’s picking up on Turei’s career as a socialite, her interest in marrying into wealth and her support for fascism. Wow, it’s like two peas in a pod!
     • Robert Guyton 9.1.1

       11 August 2017 at 10:53 am

       🙂
       That Alwyn! What a card!
10. Bearded Git 10

    11 August 2017 at 10:17 am

    Interesting article in the Herald today on incomes during this government by Brian Fallow (my comments in brackets):

    “The lowest quintile, or fifth, of households when ranked by income spend an average of 51 per cent of their disposable income on housing, up from 29 per cent in the late 1980s. For the second lowest quintile it is 32 per cent of income, versus 19 per cent 30 years ago. [this is scandalous-under National the lowest waged people can no longer afford accommodation]

    But the top decile has been pulling away from the rest particularly swiftly on National’s watch. [Labour/Green bloc should be highlighting this]

    Between 2009 and 2016, household incomes at the 90th per centile rose 14.7 per cent. This is after inflation, tax, transfers and housing costs. At the 10th per centile, the increase was 9.4 per cent over the same seven years.” [Under National the rich have been getting much richer]

    It’s here:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11901921
11. Draco T Bastard 11

    11 August 2017 at 11:03 am

    Guardians of Property

    Simply put, the Right cares more about preserving private property and the power it commands over politics, the economy, and society than it does about democracy. If they can have both, then conservative politicians and parties will support democracy and often get exactly what they want, as formal democracy on its own has historically proven compatible with an anti-democratic capitalism that concentrates economic power. But if conservatives are forced to choose — as they ultimately were in both the British and German contexts — they will always choose property. The circumstances of this choice determine whether they also bring down the curtain on democracy.

    Sounds about right – Just need to look to what happened with ECan to see that. The conservatives weren’t getting what they wanted and so they canned even the limited democracy that was there.
12. Muttonbird 12

    11 August 2017 at 11:19 am

    Homelessness spreading to the regions.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11900735

    Real wages dropping.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11901921

    The Nats just don’t get it do they?
    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      11 August 2017 at 11:48 pm

      IMO, the Nats fully understand what they’re doing and they’ll keep doing it for as long as we let them. The end result of letting them do it is a poverty stricken and collapsed society.
13. esoteric pineapples 13

    11 August 2017 at 11:49 am

    The Metiria affair is starting to remind me of “the Dreyfus affair”

    “The Dreyfus Affair was a political scandal that divided the Third French Republic from 1894 until its resolution in 1906. The affair is often seen as a modern and universal symbol of injustice, and it remains one of the most notable examples of a complex miscarriage of justice. The major role played by the press and public opinion proved influential in the lasting social conflict.
    The scandal began in December 1894, with the treason conviction of Captain Alfred Dreyfus, a young French artillery officer of Alsatian and Jewish descent. Sentenced to life imprisonment for allegedly communicating French military secrets to the German Embassy in Paris, Dreyfus was imprisoned on Devil’s Island in French Guiana, where he spent nearly five years.
    The affair from 1894 to 1906 divided France deeply and lastingly into two opposing camps: the pro-Army, mostly Catholic “anti-Dreyfusards” and the anticlerical, pro-republican Dreyfusards. It embittered French politics and encouraged radicalization.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_affair
14. ianmac 14

    11 August 2017 at 12:05 pm

    Anti Hosking petition stands at 18,073
    Hoskings thinks it is just Winston who opposes him.

    This column disputes Hoskings neutrality:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/95650688/mike-hoskings-political-leanings–in-his-own-words
15. eco maori 15

    11 August 2017 at 12:23 pm

    Now its not nice being Maori at this time I rang a guy down south he said come now the farm is run by eastern European and its a mess . So I flew down on my first day on the job I was informed that my job would be tractor driver handy man milker for now the farm had a 80 bail rotary there were 5 workers milking 2 cupping 2 recupping as the cups would fall off and 1 decupping . I noticed that the string to the auto cup removers were snapping . I new what the problem was the auto teat sprayers get a sharp edge as the string slide past it I put duck tape on the place where the string was rubbing on teat spray and replaced all the strings .In the mean time the manager had plant tec in 3 days a week to fix plant they changed all the rubber ware and stuffed around with the plant I checked the vac plant oil it was low and burnt I ordered some oil .The day I changed the oil the calf rear asked if the tec had turned up vac presser as the cups had stopped falling off i said no I changed the oil. On the Saturday there there was a training day Dairy NZ were running a training day the manager had for got and the staff were on days off. After 20 minutes the CEO of DNZ approached me and said that it was obvious than I was the most experienced worker there as the manager did not no he was not milking cows properly and the cows would get mastitis and production would drop. He asked me to help the manager and give him advice . I replied that 2 weeks ago I suggested to start a staff roster with 10 staff he needed a roster that the manager did not take my advice . The plant Tec were embarrassed that I had fixed the plant. I flew home to get my wife. The day I was to drive back down south I rang the owner he told me to stay there and he would ring me WTF The farm owner would rather lose money and stock than higher a proud Maori.
    Now some people will think it was me at fault and that there is no discrimination in NZ I was down south 20 years ago fishing and the Maoris down south did not want to be Maori they called other Maori BUSH PIGS. Now people! We should be proud of ourselves and our ancestors & the values that come with it!
    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 15.1

      11 August 2017 at 7:40 pm

      I hope you get a better position offered to you in which your skills are valued. Maybe if you sending your details to the CEO of DNZ, explaining the treatment you received might lead to a contact for a better job. Working in such a toxic environment would have been bad for your health. It is not your mana that has diminished. It is that of the ignorant owner and if he is that stupid, then he will be “rewarded” accordingly. Kia kaha.
    • Foreign waka 15.2

      12 August 2017 at 10:41 am

      You should mention who the owner is to the appropriate agencies (MAF?) , as not caring properly for animals can lead to animal epidemics and this is will also be of concern to other farmers. The other question is staff work conditions, are they in accordance with NZ law?
      As for not taking advise, pride before the fall…..Stupid is what stupid does.
16. Robert Guyton 16

    11 August 2017 at 12:39 pm

    “English says he’s “not particularly concerned” about the content of the texts.

    The trouble is, we hear such things a lot. The capacity of our governments to be serene in the face of troubling realities has become more a cause of discomfort than a reassurance.

    English says not-all-that-inscrutably that he has given “all relevant material” to the police and they have not come to him asking for more. So it sounds like he didn’t pass his texts on. But at least investigators would have a pretty good idea who to hit up for copies.”
    Southland Times – watch this space.
17. Robert Guyton 17

    11 August 2017 at 12:43 pm

    2 responses to The Southland Times’article on Metiria Turei:

    “What a damn hypocritical thing to say Sarah Dowie!! You needn’t go far to look at turmoil than your own mate Todd Barclay…. Or have you “chosen” to forget that as well??
    There’s a change coming Sarah and it’s all bad for you.
    ReplyShare0

    3 hours ago
    nettieg3
    Sarah Dowie what a waste of space the clone has spoken the party line lets get rid of her she has done nothing for the real people of Invercargill.”

    Clone!
    Oh dear!
18. ScottGN 18

    11 August 2017 at 1:03 pm

    NZherald has been running some online polls (cheaper than proper ones I guess for a totally skint media outfit).
    This morning they published some findings around trust. English most trusted by 31%, Jacinda remarkably close on 26% and Winston back in third on 14%.
    As you’d expect English has a advantage with those over 60 years old, 40% to 21%, but not perhaps as big an advantage as you might expect.
    However in all age groups under 49 years old more respondents trusted Ardern than English. I think that’s a pretty remarkable achievement in little over a week.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11902231
19. savenz 19

    11 August 2017 at 1:43 pm

    It’s pretty scary to Pike river waited 4 days to look for survivors – and the authorities took 6.5 years to admit the they saw movement that could have been survivors.

    Leaked Pike River Mine footage could prove there were survivors after first explosion

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/08/leaked-pike-river-mine-footage-could-prove-there-were-survivors-after-first-explosion.html
20. ianmac 20

    11 August 2017 at 2:01 pm

    Change.org is running a petition:

    “There should be an inquiry of ex winz beneficiary Paula Bennett and the allegations made surrounding her stint on the benefit.”

    This stands at 20,627

    Paula Bennett Winz Allegations Inquiry.
    Nearest I can get to link.
    https://www.change.org/p/justice-minister-paula-bennett-winz-fraud-inquiry
21. eco Maori/kiwi 21

    11 August 2017 at 3:32 pm

    Please if you are not on board with this petition to get BENNETT investigated shut up as at least it will let them no that we can see right through Nationals bullshit
22. PB 22

    11 August 2017 at 3:43 pm

    How come we could afford to build dams/roads/schools/hospitals etc and have a social welfare system that was the envy of the world and now we can’t afford to much at all?
    • Ad 22.1

      11 August 2017 at 3:54 pm

      Narrow commodity-based economy with stagnant productivity.
      Hasn’t changed.

      Plus otherwise untaxed property wealth.
    • gsays 22.2

      11 August 2017 at 4:11 pm

      I recall the selling of the power companies back to the rich of us , was to pay for schools,roads, etc.
23. Ad 23

    11 August 2017 at 3:52 pm

    For some reason it is hard to imagine the New Zealand Parliament holding an inquiry with hearings called: “The implications of climate change for Australia’a National Security”.

    Former Australian Defence Force Chief Admiral Chris Barrie submits:
    “Australia’s climate change credentials have suffered from a serious lack of political leadership.”

    https://uploads.guim.co.uk/2017/08/10/Sub_38_Honorary_Professor_Chris_Barrie.pdf

    Would be great to hear our military leadership show that they too had come to grips with this kind of threat to our own country.
    • Exkiwiforces 23.1

      11 August 2017 at 4:58 pm

      Ad,

      Most western militaries are taking climate change very seriously at strategic and tactical level weather that be a war fighting/ warlike conditions or in a non warlike/ humanitarian role. I did post something about climate change from a military pov on one of weka’s threads.

      If we look at the last DWP which was released last year or the year before. You would see that Navy has requested an extra OPV of a highly modified version than the current two, a new dive/ hydrographic ship and the new ice capable tanker/ support ship. Also of note that any ship that operating down Sth from 2019 I think has to inline with ice strengthen class rules which rules the current two OPV’s and in the bigger picture stuff the Antarctic Treaty is up for renewal very soon around 2020 I believe ( hopefully someone here will a better idea when the Treaty renewal date is)

      The DWP has also called new Investment in the Airforce ie new Transport Aircarft at Strategic and Tactical capability, new ISR Aircraft both long range and short range (maned and unmanned aircraft) more NH-90s should have been included as well as I think 8 is a little on the small side.

      ATM RNZN and the RNZAF are active in the South Pacific on fisheries patrol as our Asian friends (The Chinese are the biggest culprits so far using their money/soft aid to pay off officials etc) are overfishing and unreported of catchiest.

      I hope this answers some of your questions and if you or anyone else has more questions please fire away and I will try my best to answer them.
      • Ad 23.1.1

        11 August 2017 at 5:36 pm

        It’s not the proposed new equipment or lack of that bothers me, but the lack of close integration with Civil Defence. Maybe a few more roll on-roll off vessels to really get goods in to to a centre fast.

        I would want to see NZDF responding with a strategy that says a whole bunch more Territorial Forces, Unimogs, and army engineers will be stationed in high flood risk areas.

        To me, bailing out civilian cities and towns in a time of crisis is one of the best uses for our armed forces that I can think of.
        • Exkiwiforces 23.1.1.1

          11 August 2017 at 7:08 pm

          The RNZN track record in using Rollo’s isn’t great, as the RNZN have been brunt twice trying adapt cheap civilian freighters in Navy ships HMNZS Upham (was a dog of ship and I have never been so sick at sea) and the HMNZS Canterbury http://www.defence.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/independent-review-safety-hmnzs-canterbury2.pdf. No thanks to the stupid pollies.

          Here’s a couple of ideas for future ships in the RNZN
          https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Absalon-class_(Denmark) The StanFlex Modules could be built in NZ to suit NZ conditions, it takes NH-90 as well an I believe it can also do run down Sth as well. To tell you the truth the RNZN should be based in the Danish Navy anyway that’s my POV.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rotterdam_class_amphibious_transport_dock&redirect=no This is what the Canterbury should have been. Having a docking well means you load and unload up to sea state 6 and not sea state 1 if you are using a ramp aka the Canterbury.

          The Territorial Forces got hammed by National party in the 90’s along with the rest off NZDF and since then it hasn’t really recovered from the 90’s. Both Labour and National have tinkled around the edges IRT the TF. The TF does form the bases for Civil Defence in the regions that don’t have a permanent NZDF bases.

          The only way we can strengthen the TF is to make the TF wages Tax free like here in OZ, as allows those on the dole or DPB or if you are student to earn a bit of cash without getting wack by the taxman, invokes a sense of community sprint, morale rising, a sense of pride in ones self etc, strengthen the Reserve Forces act and think Labour did try to strengthen the act during Timor 1, but the Nat sucked up to its business mates. The Australian Reserve Act is a very good one and I know that for a fact real time and without it the Force Protection of the RAAF would fall over at the moment. The figures out ATM has a RAAF Reserve FP averaging 77 days a yr, so it shows how good the Australian Reserve Act is. If that were to happen in NZ a lot more investment will have to happen to the TF across all 3 services as result of cuts by the National in 90’s to the TF.

          There use be a large TF engineer presence in Dunedin and Christchurch along with 2 Artillery batteries, the NZ Scots recc’e Sqn, 2 medical units at about company strength, 2 Log units, 2 Infantry units and that was just the Major centres. But of most them have disbanded or merge or reduce in size as cost cutting and the minor centres aka rural centre/areas have either closed or just hanging in there because of the local community sprint/ pride etc because of the other central government agencies have closed in the 80/90’s and the TF is the last major government department apart from the police etc.
24. eco Maori/kiwi 24

    11 August 2017 at 4:03 pm

    Because National cut taxes now when in business you can claim a lot more expenses against them than 10 years ago can a paye worker claim part of the running cost of and vehicle maintenance I would not mind paying more tax to help others have a better life
25. WILD KATIPO 25

    11 August 2017 at 4:41 pm

    Sigh…. Mr Trump threatening North Korea, long standing Greens resigning , Bill English taking a DIP in the polls,… an asteroid set to destroy the planet hurtling towards us, the cornershop dairy running out of bread, and somewhere in far off Kurdistan a small child stubs their toe…

    Monty python – The Universe song which also goes under … – YouTube
    you tube▶ 2:46
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY
26. ScottGN 26

    11 August 2017 at 5:28 pm

    It’s been a month since the last Roy Morgan Poll. Which seems a long time given how close we are to the election. It makes you wonder if they cancelled what they were doing and returned to the field in the wake of last weeks upheavals?
    • alwyn 26.1

      11 August 2017 at 6:20 pm

      They’ve only been polling once a month since the last election. You can see the polling dates here.
      http://www.roymorgan.com/morganpoll/new-zealand/voting-intention-summary
      If they follow the same pattern this month I would expect the polling to finish this Sunday (13th) and the results to be published on Thursday or Friday next week.
      God knows how they will make any sense of it.

      By the way you can register your e-mail with them and you get a message when a new poll is released.
      Saves having to look their site up when you think a poll might be due.
      • ScottGN 26.1.1

        11 August 2017 at 6:34 pm

        Thanks Alwyn.
27. Penny Bright 27

    11 August 2017 at 5:43 pm

    IF YOU DON’T KNOW YOUR INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS – YOU DON’T HAVE ANY:

    http://www.un.org/en/sections/un-charter/chapter-i/index.html

    CHAPTER I: PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES

    Article 1
    The Purposes of the United Nations are:

    To maintain international peace and security, and to that end:

    to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law,

    adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;

    To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples,

    and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

    To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character,

    and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and

    To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.
    Article 2
    The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

    The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.

    All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.

    All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.

    All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

    All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.

    The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.

    Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
    • McFlock 27.1

      11 August 2017 at 5:50 pm

      well, that was random.
      • WILD KATIPO 27.1.1

        11 August 2017 at 5:56 pm

        No it wasn’t.

        It was informative.
        • McFlock 27.1.1.1

          11 August 2017 at 6:05 pm

          So is the wikipedia page on constipation, but I wouldn’t quite it at length without a contextually-obvious reason..
          • WILD KATIPO 27.1.1.1.1

            11 August 2017 at 6:32 pm

            Its Open Mike. And you said quite instead of quote.
            • McFlock 27.1.1.1.1.1

              11 August 2017 at 8:33 pm

              It is, and I did.

              And the comment was still random.
              • WILD KATIPO …

                11 August 2017 at 9:47 pm

                nuuu… it was alerting us to something outside of our usual parameters of thought. And important in understanding geopolitical thinking… and,.. sadly , the way in which hypocrisy and duplicity works…
                • McFlock …

                  11 August 2017 at 9:58 pm

                  Randomly.
                  • marty mars …

                    11 August 2017 at 10:13 pm

                    Very – it made very random appear random and so on.
              • Macro …

                11 August 2017 at 10:02 pm

                Yes it was “random” – but in the context of the nuclear pissing war between Trump and Kim Jong-un I think this part is relevant:

                All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.

                All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

                All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.

                my bold.
                US is of course a permanent member of the UN security council so (as a leader in the UN) should be setting an example, not blatantly breaking the rules.
                (Chump please take note!)
                • McFlock …

                  11 August 2017 at 10:08 pm

                  That is slightly less random. Didn’t pick that out of the cut&paste dump.

                  I’m mildly hopeful that one of them orders a nuke launch and someone on their staff immediately removes them from office.

                  As it is, international law is about as relevant as criminal law is when two equally insecure and spoiled rich manchildren get into a dick measuring argument in a bar.
                  • Macro …

                    11 August 2017 at 10:23 pm

                    Yes I’ve been pondering along the lines that if the Chump was to release “Fire and Fury – the like of which the world has never seen”. Then the military would take a more nuanced view and refuse to follow the order. I’m sure they know – because the Chump obviously doesn’t – that a nuclear attack on North Korea would simply lead to a wholesale retaliatory response from China or Russia.
                    • Dennis Frank …

                      11 August 2017 at 10:31 pm

                      I’ve been pondering whether the failure to say `fire & brimstone’ was a coded message to the fundamentalists who helped elect him (“you guys don’t control me”). Could be brimstone has gone out of fashion & the twitterati would get lost.
                    • Dennis Frank …

                      11 August 2017 at 10:36 pm

                      But to the point being made: it’s all very well for the UN to have such rules, when there’s a breach of them there’s no method of enforcement attached.
                    • marty mars …

                      11 August 2017 at 10:38 pm

                      Macro – could they really make that choice and do it – does it work or is it successful is one thing and have they actually the fortitude to do such a thing – let alone what would happen next.
                    • Macro …

                      11 August 2017 at 10:43 pm

                      I think it’s more likely, given his limited vocabulary, that he doesn’t know the word “brimstone”.
                      I saw a clip last night where Trump used the words “the like of which the world has never seen” in at least half a dozen different contexts.
                      But yes – his “spiritual advisor” says God has given him the word to “take out” Kim Jong-un!
                      🙄
                      Really!!!
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaFxTrNHsX0
                    • McFlock …

                      11 August 2017 at 10:54 pm

                      thoughts on whether the slightly less irradiated portions on the planet finally nuke the security council veto when the nuclear winter is over?
                    • Macro …

                      11 August 2017 at 10:55 pm

                      Marty

                      The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809[890].ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the “lawful command of his superior officer,” 891.ART.91 (2), the “lawful order of a warrant officer”, 892.ART.92 (1) the “lawful general order”, 892.ART.92 (2) “lawful order”. In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

                      http://www.omjp.org/ArtLarryDisobey.html
                      my bold
                      Similar obligations hold in our military as well
                    • Macro …

                      11 August 2017 at 11:01 pm

                      McFlock – – now wouldn’t that be nice!
                      Gezz I sincerely hope that we can nuke the veto before we nuke ourselves.
                    • marty mars …

                      11 August 2017 at 11:09 pm

                      Thanks. Hope it doesn’t come to that because I think if that happened it might throw the US over the edge entirely.
                    • McFlock …

                      11 August 2017 at 11:14 pm

                      ahem – so the mushroom cloud might have a silver lining? 👿
                    • Macro …

                      11 August 2017 at 11:19 pm

                      Marty – I hope one day that all those nut cases that were on “The Standard” chanting “Killary” and “Trump for President” etc (you know the ones… CV et al) will come back and sincerely apologise and acknowledge that they were talking through their arse with respect to the relative merits of Clinton or Trump for the Presidency. I think it is quite clear now who would have been the safer pair of hands.
                    • WILD KATIPO …

                      11 August 2017 at 11:42 pm

                      Don’t be silly… Trump is the actor , the Military heads are the muscle.

                      Ever heard of the ‘ good cop ‘ / bad cop’ routine?

                      That’s what you are seeing.

                      Trump is no fool and has got us all bamboozled.

                      What do you think the missile attack on Syria was all about when he was host to one of China’s highest heads of state ???

                      Just a display of American made firecrackers?
                    • Exkiwiforces …

                      11 August 2017 at 11:45 pm

                      On the bright side of this it will at least solve climate warming ATM, so always look on the bright side of life and remember last joke is on you. And on that note i’m off bred and I will see all you lot tomorrow.

                      God bless Monty Python and those that follow Monty Python
                    • McFlock …

                      12 August 2017 at 12:01 am

                      I think the routine you’re looking for is Nixon’s Madman theory.

                      Two points:
                      Firstly, if petulant irrationality is an act by Trump, he’s been building it for decades. Gotta admire his commitment to the bit, I guess.

                      Secondly, the madman thing only works if everyone else is rational. It doesn’t work if everyone plays it: they just end up escalating themselves into a much bigger fight than they were trying to avoid.

                      At the moment, your best scenario is that both kim and the orange one are the equivalent of sports jocks in a bar mouthing off at each other, pretending to be tough and neither able to back down. Soon someone’s going to have to swing a punch.
                    • Exkiwiforces …

                      12 August 2017 at 12:17 am

                      And remember folks Asian nations and especially their leaders don’t like losing face. As said some days ago I said this “if Trump knows this then it’s a hell of a way to chicken with old fat boy as both of them are irrational leaders. The fat boy might just push that big red button for shits and giggles.

                      I wouldn’t be surprised if old mate from Russia makes a play for the Baltic states or the Swedish lsland of Gotland if things get a little hot in northern Asia.
                • Draco T Bastard …

                  11 August 2017 at 11:30 pm

                  And on that note it’s worth posting this link again:

                  Noam Chomsky: First, it is important to remember that the US does not accept the Universal Declaration of Human Rights — though in fact the UDHR was largely the initiative of Eleanor Roosevelt, who chaired the commission that drafted its articles, with quite broad international participation.

                  That article is mostly about the atrocious US health system but it’s obvious that the US doesn’t adhere to the UDHR at all especially when it comes to maintaining peace and invading other countries.
                  • WILD KATIPO …

                    12 August 2017 at 12:13 am

                    And that takes us back to the 19th century theory of ‘ whoever controls Russia controls the center of the world’.

                    And the western powers still adhere to that… with the USA ( according to John Pilger ) ringing China with more than 200 military bases, working their way towards Russia…

                    But Trump screwed that theory by being mates with Putin.

                    So to throw them all off about Russian interference,… they have a phone call about pretending they are having a fall out…

                    Best of mates in Anttarctica, though before Trump when Obama was around …

                    Head of the Russian Orthodox Church’s Antarctic Adventure – YouTube
                    youtube▶ 0:31
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxYDZxZHT4Y

                    Might have something to do with this :

                    NAZI UFO VRILS ATTACK US NAVAL FLEET; RARE … – YouTube
                    you tube▶ 4:23
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rS75Vyickk

                    And maybe this from Buzz Aldrin :

                    Buzz Aldrin We Are All In Danger From Evil At South Pole … youtube▶ 9:34
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHeSE2UWhhk

                    And onwards to :

                    Rosicrucianism

                    Helen Blavatskys : theosophisim

                    Nazism/ NASDAP : Ayrianism

                    Cojoining with interdimentialist entities.

                    Maybe Doug Adams and Monty Python were right all along …

                    Or perhaps Gary Wayne is a more serious choice…
          • Glenn 27.1.1.1.2

            11 August 2017 at 6:38 pm

            FYI
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constipation
      • ScottGN 27.1.2

        11 August 2017 at 6:09 pm

        Haha. As usual.
        • WILD KATIPO 27.1.2.1

          11 August 2017 at 6:36 pm

          Well I fail to see whats so funny , ScottGN , – would you mind sharing it with the rest of the class?
28. Exkiwiforces 28

    11 August 2017 at 6:00 pm

    Penny,

    You’ve got to reform the Security Council first, but pigs might fly (the 4 legged and F1-11 variety) before the Security Council reform happens.
29. greywarshark 29

    11 August 2017 at 6:51 pm

    From a book on Ghandis methods and teaching by Anand Kumarasamy who has Masters in Humanities and Social Sciences from Sydney (a discipline going into reverse in this country). This starts with a quote that goes back to Plato.

    Wikipedia on Plato: 428/427 or 424/423[b] – 348/347 BC) was a philosopher in Classical Greece and the founder of the Academy in Athens, the first institution of higher learning in the Western world.

    We are now learning to do without thoughts of philosophy, so could we have the first institution without higher learning in the Western world?

    You my friend, a citizen of this great and mighty city of Athens, [Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch] you devote yourself to acquiring the greatest amount of money, honour and reputation, and yet you care so little about wisdom, truth and the greatest improvement of the soul, which you never regard or heed at all? – Plato, Apologia

    Ring a bell? Watch out for people ringing bells. They might be realising dangerous truths.
    • WILD KATIPO 29.1

      11 August 2017 at 8:51 pm

      Oh surely not !… Monty python was never meant to be a satirical commentary on the futility of the transient acquisition of material possessions and temporal power , but rather a philosophical and metaphysical reference to the outrageous juxtapositions inherent between matter and anti matter and the reality of inter- dimensionalism . Such as the arrogant plonkers in charge of the CERN project are concerned with …

      It is , however , interesting ,… that the interface between court jester, religious sage and western rationalistic thought find their final expression and nemesis in protons and neutrons colliding at the speed of light in a subterranean tunnel found between the borders of France and Switzerland.

      Me ?… I would rather follow the original hippy that was nailed to two pieces of wood 2000 years ago for suggesting we should be kind to each other… ( Doug Adams )

      “And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.”
      • greywarshark 29.1.1

        11 August 2017 at 10:19 pm

        I wasn’t on a Monty Python mindset but on a Ghandi one with a bit of Plato and ancient Greece. Life of Brian didn’t come into it, nor Tinkerbell or Trillion or whoever.
        • WILD KATIPO 29.1.1.1

          11 August 2017 at 11:27 pm

          Trillions nice, intelligent, if a little …. peculiar.
    • Stuart Munro 29.2

      12 August 2017 at 12:38 am

      Solon is worth a look too:

      “Some wicked men are rich, some good are poor,
      We will not change our virtue for their store:
      Virtue’s a thing that none can take away;
      But money changes owners all the day.”
30. eco Maori/kiwi 30

    11 August 2017 at 8:51 pm

    I sure you most of the readers bloggers on this site no what country is the monster in this world!!!!!
    • WILD KATIPO 30.1

      11 August 2017 at 9:50 pm

      We are deliberately divided by a managed geopolitical agenda ,…try this instead :

      TALKING GENESIS 6 CONSPIRACY W/GARY WAYNE – YouTube
      Video for gary wayne genesis 6 you tube▶ 1:37:10
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gr1UcNRlAI

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1. Getting out the vote « The Standard: posted on 18 August 2017 at 6:39 am

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