Wildland! I got it from the local library, and it's the best insight into the dysfunction of the USA that an investigative journalist can do using well-selected interviews & a natural rapport with those he talks to.
He mentions seeing in Clarksburg during the first pandemic year the trendy T-shirt with the slogan West Virginia: Self Isolating Since 1863. Here's the origin of that…
When a war between the states threatened to rip our country apart, the members of our state had no problem whatsoever ripping the state apart and seceding from Virginia, just as Virginia had seceded from the Union. We formed our own state in 1863, thank you very much.
The only reason anyone still burns coal today is because of the enormous political power and inertia that the industry has acquired since the 19th century. In America, that power and inertia is embodied in the cruel and cartoonish character of West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, who, paradoxically, may have more control over the trajectory of the climate crisis than any other person on the planet right now.
I've mentioned this on here many times before, but Manchin is a DINOsaur. Democrat In Name Only. He caucuses with the Democrats but in almost every other respect his political thought resides on the other side of the political divide. Indeed he has in recent times suggested that he may leave the Democrats and continue his tenure in the Senate as an Independent,but caucusing with the Democrats a la Bernice Saunders. That would avoid the loss of the Senate from the Democrats to the Republicans, and would also allow him to continue to control the passage of any meaningful legislation to his personal agenda.
Yeah I get the picture. However, that framing kinda disregards how such people get to be selected by the party in the first place. It tries to ignore the representative part of democracy. If he didn't seem representative of democratic interests, they would not have selected him.
Then there's the other dimension that the framing disregards: why democrat voters continue to vote for him instead of a democrat challenger.
So you can see why the framing appears suspect to a centrist like me. It's as if those who invented DINO were trying to dissociate themselves from other democrats. In other words, it suggests an internal divide within the party.
If that is a revelation new to you, then you have not been paying attention. There is a huge divide within the Democrats Manchin is one – his compatriot Kyrsten Simena from Arizona have together stuffed up practically all of the progressive legislation introduced to the Senate by the House in support of the Biden Administrations Build Back Better policies – much of it addressed to inproving the financial position of poor and middle class Families addressing climate change and a raft of other progressive initiatives. Their obstructionist actions do not go unnoticed by the wealthy nor by the voters who put them there.
The Greens going back to their roots is a great idea for keeping everyone happy. The Greens will feel they are honest to their cause and are holding everyone to account. The Right can relax because finally the Greens in power won't be an issue.
For people like me who believe MAN made climate change is a scam, I couldn’'t be happier.
Commentator, Tiger Mountain, says the Right has a thing about the Greens – he's right, we think they are nuts. Now, any honest righty, has to admit the the Greens do make some pertinent points. And they have/are changing the way will view our environment.
Take farmers for example. Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them, and Delahunty’ still not happy with farmers. Meanwhile, the latte drinking, Fair Trade shopping, organic munching, vegan touting city Green slicker, who lives in an environment that may be more detrimental towards global pollution gets a free ride.
Yeah, we don't like the Greens.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
[long standing policy, no climate denial under my posts. – weka]
No I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn’t be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
The fact that some early AGW climate change alarmists got their predictions horribly wrong about how quickly the ice would melt & seas flood low-lying regions, & didn’t understand the complexity of how AGW would affect jet streams & weather systems (producing the weather extremes & anomalies we are seeing far more of today) doesn’t mean the theory & science is wrong.
I think the science is now being proved right every year, with increasing ice mass loss, many more weather extremes, oceans warming, and in this country ever warmer Winters.
But, if you believe the climate is changing but anthropogenic global warming is not the cause, what do you believe the cause actually is?
Haven't had to tell people not to do climate denial under my posts for ages. Don't even bother putting a note at the bottom of the posts now. Things have changed.
There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.
Probably confused also as to why its neighbour doesn't have Covid.
Probably a hoax.
The whole thing.
Moon landing…
Dinosaurs…
Apparently, satellites have revealed the remains of what can only be Noah's ark, on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, or Arrowroot, or somewhere.
''There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.''
I bit of self reflection on your part is not a bad thing, Robert. Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers.
The first time I came across CC as a theory was in a eco/ greenie mag called Maggie's Farm ( circa1986).
An article in that mag was by R,HeruAyani and Parri White: Quote:
''While you sleep weather extremes around the world are breaking century old records''
They went on suggest ozone depletion as a major cause of climate change. Of course that is still debated.
CC is the meme for our age. In a 100 years time this time period will be a major study in universities around the world. Students will gasp at how science became a political expedient for pushing agendas.
I may stick to the more relevant Antarctic, Tony. I guess with all this melting ice you will be worried about ocean levels rising and flooding parts of coastal continents?
''In fact, the Antarctic continent has not warmed in the past seven decades, despite a steady increase in the atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.''
CO₂ and Greenhouse Gas Emissions
Human emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases – are a primary driver of climate change – and present one of the world’s most pressing challenges. This link between global temperatures and greenhouse gas concentrations – especially CO₂ – has been true throughout Earth’s history.
Is the recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels driving an alarmingly rapid rise in average global temperatures? The consensus opinion of climate scientists is 'YES'.
Don't understand how/why a rational person could/would conclude otherwise, although there are some who ‘think’ that this iteration of civilisation is too big to fail, while simultaneously believing that 8 billion puny humans couldn’t possibly compromise the life-sustaining global cycles of spaceship Earth. Amazing, and quite funny in its own way.
For an antiscience guy you come across well normally. All that hooha about the hockey stick turned out to be due to using wrong data sets. I read a book about it once by a denier & thought it rather good at the time but years later became aware that the deniers were misrepresenting a northern hemisphere regional effect as global. Still not sure if it was deliberate fakery or inadvertent confusion on their part. Think it was either the medieval warming period or the little ice age that followed that they used. I vaguely recall the logic ran like this: doesn't show up on Gore's hockey stick so he got it wrong.
Well, elementary! Gore didn't conjure anything. He used the results of the global measuring system. On the volcano in Hawaii, if I recall right, there's a sampling station.
Major regional variations that produce different climates are extremely interesting and haven't featured much in media. The one that created the Sahara, for instance, only a few millennia back. Israel was the land of milk & honey according to the bible when Joshua led his genocide campaign on God's instruction to kill all the indigenous people including women & children. Now mostly desert. Cedars of Lebanon built Solomon's temple.
I left the mainstream science view behind over half a century ago, even before I graduated. Not saying NS has no value – probably do still publish worthy stuff – but not enough leading-edge focus for me. Think the last one I checked out was in the '80s.
Well, Nature is meant to be the gold standard in academic research publication. But they are so blinkered I don't waste my time. Can you suggest suitable reading material.
Depends on your interests – there's no go to place for all of science. I started in physics but shifted towards a multidisciplinary overview. About the only useful skill you get from universities is an inkling of how to learn. Scan a bunch of sources to get the gist of the topic, that sort of thing.
If your inner bullshit detector is good, figure out the authorities in the field of interest, then go for those currently setting the pace. Especially useful are books written by experts who are trying to inform the public about key findings.
One needs to be able to detect any ideology driving the author, and then gauge how much it warps his/her judgment of the elements of significance in the field or in the issues. Bias is human nature but it need not put a reader off if you can see how much it is affecting the author's descriptions.
NS was and still is useful for getting an short overview across a large number of fields. I have never read it for depth. I have read it for overview.
Periodically I renew a online subscription – but it really depends on how flush I feel, and if I think I have time to read it. It is (for instance) way behind my annual payment to wikipedia – which I random read topics on for much the same reasons that I have read NS.
But these days I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages.
I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages
Yeah, me too. I agree a wiki on a topic is fastest & easiest for an overview. It will usually be near the top of our google search page.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection. That's an internal mental discipline that all long-time users refine but I'm always impressed by how often minor variations throw up new gold nuggets when searching online.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection.
It's funny. I use a couple of programs at work, but we collaborate with other people and that can involve figuring out the basics of programs completely new to me.
Trying to do the same stuff in each program, there are a couple of new-to-me programs that my ignorance of is so complete that I can't even reliably google how to do something. The developers and operating community have such a completely different orientation to my brainstylez that I literally don't have the words.
R is a good example: to take a column from one table and join it with another is the function "cbind". So you need to know that the math crowd call them "columns" not "fields" in order to get the "c", and they "bind" rather than "join" or "merge" to get the rest of the function name. I was script-punching without any understanding for months before that clicked in my head. Which meant my google searches were all about "fields" and "joins" in R, and bore little fruit and I flailed about in the water, praying for the project to end lol.
Technicalities in your 3rd paragraph defeat my comprehension but I get the overall gist. Reminds us that we need language to communicate, and language is produced by a community.
Decoding, deciphering, requires an interpretive key, schema, algorithm. So you get a triadic structure: system A, bridging key, system B – which often maps onto the relation of person to group. The relation then becomes an info channel or conduit.
New Scientist subscription? Blade are you by any chance Deborah Russell.
She seems to get her information on biological science from New Scientist, claming that she read there that sex was on a spectrum. Its not. With the exception of a fraction of a fraction of people (intersex, but not most intersex) humans are either male or female and you can't change your biological sex
in the Select Committee hearings on the BMDRR Bill Deborah Russell quoted or rather mis-quoted an article from Scientific American about 3. or 4 times, saying sex was on a spectrum.
Have existed in that amazingly vast, chaotic, open, non linear, long term stable system that is the Earths climate for 56 years. I can confirm I haven't noticed any unusual changes at all over that time. And I live on the coast.
I agree with Macro. Unlike coge, I look for signs. I like to sail on an inland lake. In summer 30 years ago we would often get 15+ knots of sea breeze come inland from the coast. Now we have a maritime heat wave: the sea water around NZ is at record warmth. With less temperature differential, we now get only a mild sea breeze, usually later in the day. OK coge?
No, it doesn't. What it includes is two theories about climate change if you believe the climate is changing. You have made your mind up on vacillating evidence. I also have made my mind up on vacillating evidence. The science is not proven in my opinion. When it is I will be more than happy to admit I'm wrong….will you ? I find it a worry that there is no middle ground with many on this blog. Even though I have conceded points to the Greens in my original post, that's not good enough. That attitude is fine on a blog. But that attitude in society is a real problem…as is well documented at the moment. It's also why I want the Greens to be nowhere near the true levers of power.
The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.
''The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.''
There's a fair point there. One spin off from a CC precautionary principle as you put it, is a focus on environmental pollution and steps under way to curtail that problem worldwide. I don't know of any environmental pollution deniers.
The problem with the present situation is the indoctrination of bright young minds by a school system that at its higher levels will book no alternative views to accepted current thought on climate change.
Then we have the ''The New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme.' and carbon credits sinking good NZ farming land into pine trees. Just last night a news item showed a major East Coast pastural farm waiting for permission to be sold to overseas buyers. Probably for planting in pines.
You can blame National, Act, NZF and to an extent Labour for that. The Greens had a different plan, that would have integrated environmental protection and regeneration.
I use both/and logic to transcend a binary like that. For instance, we know that natural climate change happens and sufficient evidence exists to give us confidence that AGW is a happening thing.
I encountered both/and logic in electronic circuit design & applied maths (1968/9) but due to being a lateral thinker I noticed I could use it as an abstract metaphysical framing device. Works well as such & very useful in politics.
''Sorry, Gezza. We have debated this issue ( not just you) many times before on different blogs. It just becomes a post/link feast of differing supposed official views.''
Personally I think The Greens should take a play out of Winstons playbook (only a small play) and stop saying they'll only go with Labour, stop letting Labour take them for granted.
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
At the moment The Greens are Labours doormat or maybe a better analogy would be The Greens are the faithful stay at home girlfriend that doesn't even get a bunch of flowers every now and then and Labour is the philandering boyfriend that goes around trying to woo other parties (Winston) and when all else fails for Labour they can slink off back to The Greens who'll welcome them back with open…arms, every time.
Basically The Greens should know their true worth and play a little hard to get sometimes
Of course if National were to offer enough concessions then The Greens could use that to leverage more gains from Labour…
this is a good argument, apart from the the idea of forming government with National 😉
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
Yes. My argument is that their position should be 'cross benches or coalition, the choice is ours'. That's where the leverage is now.
It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
Coquettishly fluttering their eyelashes at National, to make Labour jealous in the hope they'll shower them with gifts and enticements?
A bit transparent though, isn't it?
Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.
Better to accept the lop-sidedness of politics, hold fast to the best position available and apply the squeeze to the inner-organs in order to extract the most juice available, whether the public can see it or not (mostly not, it seems, judging from comments here).
Missing the point Robert (deliberately so I'm thinking)
Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about
Remember Labour is not your friend, they will ditch you when it becomes politically expedient so use Labour (or National) when you can for the greater good of NZ
"Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about"
Seems VERY naive, Pucky!
National are hardly likely to want to "go into talks" with The Greens, in the knowledge that all that could result is The Greens getting more influence in a Labour-led government, than they would have if they didn't hold the talks with the Nats!
Or are you suggesting The Greens should trick National, mislead them into thinking they might coalesce with them, if the offers were good enough…
It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest 🙂
Pucky, my 2c worth is that the only point in the Greens being prepared to hold coalition talks with National would be if National had a major shift in their (yet to be announced, under Luxon) policies that indicated a significant paradigm shift towards more social & environmental policies that the Greens might find a match to Labour’s, such that they had a REAL choice of influencing either Labour OR National even more towards policies that matched the issues the Greens campaign on.
I agree the Greens shouldn’t rule out a coalition with National on principle, but frankly I don’t see this paradigm shift happening with National. And absent that shift, I can’t see the point in the Greens going thru the motions only with National in the forlorn hope Labour might feel compelled to give them more. I don’t think Labour are that naïve.
Then they should resign themselves to always, and I mean always, getting less than they're worth and not even being in coalition government if Labour need votes elsewhere
Which I guess, in real terms, means the environment will always be worse off
I think I stated my point of view badly. I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.
But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.
It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.
If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.
'I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.'
– Agreed 100%
'But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.'
– Again agreed
'It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.'
– Slightly disagree, far too much of the tail wagging the dog goes on with MMP, imho, but certainly National should go in with good faith
'If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.'
They’d be crazy NOT to in that situation, Pucky. They’d have 2 years to go to find a way to mollify irritated voters if some hard Green policies were implemented in the first year of a coalition or support agreement. NZ voters forget quickly. That’s what Winston Peters traded on so well for decades.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
How would that work though? Because the Greens and everyone already know what National would offer, and the Greens have decided that there's nothing there for them. What you are suggesting is a major change in GP positioning from where it is now (National and Greens have no shared policy on which to cooperate) to one that is saying 'we will negotiate with National'.
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
Lol. The Greens worth is dependent upon not lying to the public and not supporting an anti-environment, anti-social justice government. If National have such shit green policies, that's on National and Nat voters, not the Greens.
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
Are you taking the piss? The Greens sit to the left of Labour. What could National possibly have to offer that would be of interest. Details please.
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
GP basic position is: don't compromise on values, be flexible on policy negotiations. That's principle.
The sky might fall. Can't have that! So you can see why they don't. In fact, their use of the precautionary principle has been exemplary: so far, not a single Nat leader has even offered a single concession!
Fear of flying. Need to remain a limpet & cling on to that rock! 🙄
I haven’t forgotten that James, when he became co-leader, responded to a critique along your lines by saying of the Nats “Well, if they send me a proposal, I’ll consider it.” The timid wee things weren’t brave enough to do so…
Blade @ 2.
Jesus, a climate denier still exists in the face of damning evidence across the globe. I thought they had gone into hiding with their tails between their legs. So they should.
Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them,
Bullshit. Labour has frequently commended these farmers for the environmental work they are doing. I am not going to scrawl through hordes of items looking for them, but there is plenty of evidence that the Labour Govt. has acknowledged the contribution being made by farmers. Not all farmers mind…
We have a CC denier in the face of so much to the contrary who infers to being environmentally conscious. There's a name for such people but it monetarily escapes me.
No, Contrarian would be the right word in your case.
An intelligent person would be able to clearly articulate WHY they consider that all the scientists who agree that the evidence is incontrovertible that AGWCC is actually happening are wrong – by stating what scientific evidence they are relying on is incorrect, and precisely why and how it is incorrect. Or at the very least be able to summarise their argument along those lines. Imo.
An unintelligent or lazy person would say that all those scientists are simply wrong, that they are captured by [insert political correctness, groupthink, govt funding, or whatever other criticism they currently favour], & should not be indoctrinating children, but not be able to back that statement up with a competing scientific explanation &/or links and/or their own favourite theory that explains why climate change is happening & they don’t dispute that.
Jmho The Greens shld have bailed out of the coalition when LINO ( Labour in name only) brought in social apartheid against the unvaxed. The evidence is the unvaxed are no danger to the nation's health and to coerce with mandates on pain of losing your livelihood and social exclusion is a crime against citizens and humanity.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Many people I come across think the Greens are very well-intentioned but impractical. In particular their cycle lane emphasis for a region like Wellington. In the Hutt at great cost a cycle lane was put right through from the northern end into the city, and completed months ago. Rarely, very rarely, is a cyclist seen on it. And not just from my observation, but others as well. Given the rare usage it was a very expensive project.
However, the Hutt river trail which has been there for many years is well used, particularly at weekends.
As for Wellington – the narrow, hilly streets and the strong winds mean only a tiny number of cyclists will ever be brave enough to navigate the dangerous streets.
Wellington is not Amsterdam or Copenhagen. Now the talk is to get rid of cars in the central city and rely on a very unreliable bus system. So shoppers with their parcels, the elderly or those with a disability, young mums with a baby and toddler, business people, people going to dentist/doctor appointments, will be very inconvienced. The Green councillors need a reality check. Not everyone is able to walk one end of the city to the other if the bus is full, or fails to turn up (happens often).
What are the practical, real solutions for Wellington's situation? Talk has been going on for years and years.
Cycle lanes and rail trails are great, I've walked the Central Otago Rail Trail (well mostly) and plan on doing it again but practicalities must come into it
Personally I'd like to see councils and the government put on more free buses in and around city centres, have more routes, have more buses
Not because I like the idea of subsidies but its the only way more people will use the buses and then less people will need to take vehicles into the city if the buses are more convenient
(I personally don't go into the city much at all, try to avoid it as much as possible)
Your confusion is down to Julian's obfuscation, miravox.
"McDonald's heathcare, that's a pretty clear conceptual metaphor" illustrates his method of "debate" where he sweeps the table clean of crockery and cutlery, then demands you reset it yourself, if you're not happy!
(How's that for a pretty clear conceptual metaphor?)
I get that and it is a good description of the process, added to it he snaps out the comment in a muffled way, that you cannot quite hear or grasp, as he goes out the door never to be seen again to give guidance. So you reset and he again the comment is repeated and again you can't get the relevance, so you look carefully at the crockery and start again with what you think you heard. Again he returns and says that everything you have done proves that
a you didn't know what a table is, dishes are
b you lack sympathy or empathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
or
you have empathy or sympathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
I'm guessing it was a reference to the "one size fits all" aspect of the so-called Public Health response.
In other words, it's using the "bog standard" McD model of 'food' (a McD is a McD is a McD and everyone gets the same McD no matter where in the world) as a contrast to the very basic medical premise that patients are individual people with individual and various medical needs – that's been cast aside in favour of the singular focus of "injections for all".
Moreover, the response has adapted to see individuals and groups. I am definitely one who was critical of the lack of bespoke vaccine roll-outs, in particular, for various groups (happy with the routine MIQ part of the response though – I don't think people should be treated differently in this instance. But that's the problem isn't it – different parts of the response require different strategies to make it work.
I guess it depends on how important you see vaccination in the response. I see it as critical, just the way I see treated drinking water as critical to avoiding cholera… maybe that's a McDonald's 3-waters response?
I just hope it's not a common phrasing (I'd not heard it before). I don't think it's helpful for anyone in healthcare debates.
Really? far be for me to query about the McDonalds menu. I my life I have only ever had two Burgers from McDonalds……one here in Wellington that was completely unremarkable but I did notice the pickle. Then after being hungry and a bit lost in a Mexican city, Guadalajara I think, I had the same at a McDonalds there and noticed that the pickle was completely different, the salad was different as well.
Public Health works on/with populations.
Injections have been recommended, They have not be forced on people no matter what kind of hyperbole you believe surrounds it.
There have been clinics for and attention paid to the immuno compromised. I am not sure what could be done about the nay sayers except to provide cool, calm and reliable information together with good access to facilities and let them make up their minds.
If it is any consolation I don't get the McDonalds health care metaphor and it is it not clear or conceptual. That poster often has Farcebook like responses or reckons and rarely cites.
He has said (further up in the discussion you have linked to) that natural immunity is better, an anti vax stance that taken to its logical end would mean that many many more people would die in search of a natural immunity to Covid. Many more would recover with long term deficits – Long Covid. Speaking of the Alpha and Delta variants.
It was known early on that antibodies built up by the body after having a Covid infection were not long lasting, transitory, was one word I remember hearing. This then led to people being reinfected well after the 28 day period allowed for recovery from Covid19.
Thanks, Shanreagh – I too thought about this issue of "natural immunity" and considered the phenomenon in terms of the seasonal "flu". It may be, as weka indicates, that some "bolstering" of a person's immune system occurs with an initial dose of the flu, but in terms of the response to a new virus, I can't see that. Your body's "readiness" to fight infection will perhaps be enhanced but I'm not sure how. There will be people who can explain this, no doubt.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
I think the colds, influenza and covid have some of the same family. Omicron apparently has the covid virus plus it has wrapped in part of a cold virus. I thought initially that if they do find a vaccine for Omicron, and Pfizer says that would be worthwhile, we might be on the way to finding a vaccine to prevent the common cold. This might be useful for immuno compromised people or for those who have recurrent asthma or bronchitis brought on or exacerbated by the common cold.
I have heard said that getting Covid, and running the risk that you might die or get Long Covid and then being vaccinated as soon as you can after leaving hospital will provide a very strong immunity. Not sure if that is to variants and if it wanes after a year or six months.
Personally that is a bridge too fr for me to think that getting Covid has some sort of merit. Knowing my luck and medical history, I would be one who either died or got Long Covid. The vaccine is much less risky.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was that some people appear to get a stronger immune system from having cold or flu where they have certain advantages (eg good health, the ability to take time off work to recover, good nutritional status and so on).
I don't believe this is true for covid at this time, it's novel to every human and we're still struggling to adapt.
No, he's not the sort of model for people with genuine concerns about the vaccine roll-out would want – and there are some. e.g. pharma excess profits (still), RATs fiasco in Aust, roll-out to poorer countries.
The Australian court of public opinion will be swift and harsh in their verdict, I expect, if he's found to be gaming the system.
Recent studies (and sorry, but I'm not in the space to hunt through the comments to find previously provided links atm) show that whereas infection with Omicron confers immunity to Delta, infection with Delta does not confer immunity to Omicron.
What I think we'd all agree on, is that if the doctor offered us the flu jab that was distributed to offer protection for the 2019 flu season for the 2022 flu season, we'd look at them sideways.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic. It's not that there is none, it's that some people are arguing that it's a replacement for vaccination or other measures. It's not. We need all the tools.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic
We don't know how long it lasts – but people absolutely do have immunity conferred by previous infection. The notion that a vaccine targeting only one receptor of a virus might be more effective than naturally acquired immunity that targets a broad range of receptors is….odd.
Protection from m-RNA vaccines wanes drastically over weeks to months, whereas natural immunity persists beyond the useful "shelf life" of the vaccines we're deploying.
So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)
"So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)"
Isn't that the whole point of the boosters?
If though, the boosters contain the exact-same formula the previous Pfizer vaccination contained, I'd be siding with Bill in asking wtf 🙂
Walensky explained: "A study of 1.2 million people who were vaccinated between December and October demonstrated that severe disease occurred in about 0.015 percent of the people who received their primary series and death in 0.003 percent of those people."
In a tweet posted on January 9 following the GMA interview, Walensky said: "We must protect people with comorbidities from severe #COVID19. I went into medicine – HIV specifically – and public health to protect our most at-risk. CDC is taking steps to protect those at highest risk, incl. those w/ chronic health conditions, disabilities & older adults."
Nice clarification. Wonder if the overall co-morbidity of people classified as "covid death", (ie both vaxxed and unvaxxed) reportedly over 90% with an average of four co-morbidities , stands?
Pretty damned broad list, from Candidiasis of vulva and vagina to Victim of lightning, so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
Conditions contributing to deaths involving COVID-19, by age group, United States. Week ending 2/1/2020 to 12/5/2020.
Data as of 12/6/2020
Source: National Center for Health Statistics. National Vital Statistics System. Provisional data. 2020.
This table shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019
(COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on
average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and
by age groups. Values in the table represent number of deaths that mention the condition listed and 94% of deaths mention more than one
condition. As such, the rows should not be summed. Additional notes are listed at the end of the table.
so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
And that's the nub of it. Did they die with or because of a comorbidity, or did they die with or because of Covid infection?
At present and with very few 'news' reports offering up qualifiers, deaths 'with' and 'because of' are lumped in together and misleadingly presented as covid deaths.
Clunky language coming up – it makes quite a difference to an average person's perception if 800 000 covid deaths, becomes 800 000 deaths, a large number of which were among people generally suffering from comorbidities where tests revealed that covid was present.
The Covid example of the prevention paradox is the recent and controversial CDC announcement that most (vaccinated) people who get seriously ill from Covid have co-morbidities. On top of the issue of whether that’s actually a cause for rejoicing, there’s the problem that the majority [of] people who don’t get seriously ill from Covid also have co-morbidities.
Cobra Kai is quite possibly the best thing on TV today
The first season is, possibly, the best, second and third season were ok but the fourth season is, probably, the best of the lot.
If you ever wondered what happened to Johnny Lawrence afterwards this is the show for you, want to see older characters treated with respect, dignity yet not put on a pedestal then this is for you, want to see a diverse, respectful yet non-pc show then this for you
The main characters (Johnny and Daniel) are sort of where you expect them to be. Johnny lives like the 80s never ended and Daniel is successful yet both have growing to do and its a joy to see it happen (albeit rather quickly as its a tv show)
The kids in the show are probably the weakest part of the show, way 2 and 3 are ok, but in season 4 everything ramps up and even the kids (especially the new kid) are much more interesting
No one is wholly good, no one is wholly bad (or are they…) everyone is flawed and things are seen from different viewpoints
This show is what happens when people who care about the characters (and are talented) are allowed to do their thing.
It sails close to, but never into, parody and is serious enough that you get invested but also funny enough to keep you entertained.
Saw the latest ghostbusters recently. Better storytelling, character arcs, and connection to the originals than the previous version, fair call. But a bit too "plucky children save the world" for my taste.
It was nice seeing an old-school deeply-constructed movie, though, rather than the standard superhero plotline (ordinary life, powers discovered/team assembled, minor defeat, lighthearted successes as team gels, major crisis, obstacle overcome, characters still the same so you can continue the franchise with little risk).
Ghostbusters: Afterlife had some massive plot holes but they treated the characters with respect and gave the fans what they wanted
Also compare the treatment of Luke in Disney Star wars to Egon in afterlife to see about how legacy characters should be treated
I will say McKenna Grace did a really good job and any more Ghostbusters movies with her in it would be well received
Thanks to Covid a large number of movies have been delayed so we're seeing them now, the M-She-U, James 'Boring' Bond, Disney/Marvel TV series etc so I think we're getting the tail end of a bunch of movies that wouldn't be made today
Movies where woke/intersectional/whatever is decided before an actual storyline.
The last three marvel movies made less than the latest Spiderman movie, West Side Story boomed, the 355 bombed
Theres also been a number of well received movies and tv series that are now showing the studio execs (and shareholders) that listening to twitter and shitting on fans is a sure way to lose money
So I'm picking that the quality of movies will slowly, but surely, pick up…hopefully
I still disagree on the woke thing – I think it's more that the type of movies became so expensive their funders became risk-averse, going for simple stories if there were other perceived differences from previous moneymakers.
GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.
'GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.'
Any other differences between the two movies you could think of?
Ok then what about Terminator: Dumb Fate where they kill of John Connor (thus making 1 and 2 pointless), ignore the third movie and have women replace the mens roles and don't try to tell me it wasn't deliberate:
In an interview last week, she stated that “if this movie doesn’t make money it reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don’t go see women do action movies,”
Bombed
Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)
“Yeah, it’s definitely less male gaze–y,” Robbie added.
also less box office-y and…bombed
Captain Marvel 2019
Not a bomb thanks to being in between Infinity War and End Game but how well was it received, well thanks to Brie Larson and her views the sequel is, at this time anyway, going to be The Marvels
You may not see it but its there, its movies designed to be popular with Twitter and its not working, people are beginning to see and beginning to vote with their wallets
Shame the joker was a bunch of crap. Pretty much every decent scene or even shot was ripped off from "an homage to" some other movie.
But the best story I heard about cheapness avoiding studio interference was Robert Altman's MAS*H, making a an anti-Vietnam "Korean War" movie in the early 1970s. Turn it in on time and under budget, get away with minimal notes, lol
Never read it – closest I got was the Killing Joke.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I've seen that talk show shooting thing on film before. Want to say Network, but that scene had a different vibe. Damned sure I've seen it somewhere, though.
But it's largely a pastiche of sequences from other movies – Taxi Driver (you talking to me), The Brave One (subway scene), Fight Club (the "can I be trusted" unreliable memory gambit), even a quick shot from (I think) Saving Private Ryan (but the composition was similar to Shane, too – low defenceless on left, high and armed on right, quiet pause, shot). It's well done, but none of it is particularly new.
Although the social awkwardness of the little guy having to ask Fleck to open the door right after Fleck killed his friend was pretty good.
Prob should be called cliche kai and its less cringworthy if its treated as though it is parody in my view pr still would agree it has some redeeming features and does provide a few laughs .Cant imagine how someone could stand to watch it on tv with ads i sure couldnt .
“An Otorohanga father who sparked a wide-scale search after he went missing with his three young children near Marokopa failed to show up to his first court appearance today and a warrant has been issued for his arrest.
Thomas Phillips, 34, was charged with wasteful deployment of police resources following the 17-day search in September last year. Phillips, and his three young children, Jayda Jin, 8, Maverick Callum-Phillips, 6, and Ember Phillips, 5, went missing on September 11.
After an extensive search and rescue effort by a number of emergency services, the local community and iwi, Phillips and his children turned up at his parents’ home on September 28. They had been staying in a tent in dense bush, his family said.
…
His lawyer, Garth O’Brien, appeared via audio visual link informing the judge that he hadn’t heard from his client since first informing him of the court date, the Herald understands.
He also asked to excuse himself from representing Phillips. A warrant was issued for Phillips’ arrest.”
I suspected that after his first escapade. So he's gone bush again, looks like. Wonder how stocked-up he's made his hidey hole. Presuming he's on his own this time, wonder if he's got a gun – maybe wearing a MAGA hat…
“Northland police are continuing to investigate a threat against Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern delivered to letterboxes around Kerikeri. The handwritten flier was delivered to an unknown number of homes, including in the area around Waipapa Rd, last month.
The message, which managed to spell the Prime Minister’s name wrong, started with: ”Very soon a group of us are going to eradicate Jacinda Adern (sic) from this Earth plain for good”.
It went on to claim Ardern was killing people and removing their means to live a fair and happy life. It was the second such message delivered in the Waipapa Rd area.”
Suspect they meant Earth plane. A hand-written flyer? Most likely an ill-educated nutter. But still, that’s a bit of a worry. Hope the police find this character soonish.
having seen the letter on stuff-stuffall(herald) it would appear to be written by somebody with good handwriting skills, used to writing out notices for others to easily read (and obey?). not an illeducated nutter ,but a well educated nutter . not a hillbilly (have you seen hillbillys signs and notices?. a handwriting expert would immediatley say, a well educated white person, educated before the age of spell-check , and text-mispelling, used to writing out notices in large print for others to read,,from around kerikeri, hmm heres a wild stab in the brai, a middle aged white sth african male who works in,or manages an orchard.??? or it could be a disaffected ????
American Shane Chafin got to Kawakawa to demonstrate his particular brand of stupid in his heckling of Jacinda Ardern and there are rabid anti-vaxx pockets and flourishing ignorance through Northland.
This is very disturbing, and sadly not new. There have been numerous threats of this nature towards the PM and her family. (And not only Jacinda – you might recall the court case recently of a man found guilty of threatening Simon Bridges and his family).
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous (and that includes The Standard). Crazy conspiracy theories lead to violence: if you believe the PM is a "dictator" then dictators must be overthrown, right? So for god's sake – for all our sakes – turn it down.
The NZ Herald comments are behind the paywall, so here is a selection for you all. These are all verbatim comments, and it shows how bad things have become …
Looks to me like the Government spin department opening their account for the year.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for her, concerned for her?
What a nonsense. The alarmist spin is back in overdrive.
(etc)
Fortunately, they are in the minority, but remember – these are the ones that got published. Imagine the ones that didn't.
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous…
Bear in mind the bullying, harassment, intimidation, threats of violence, the lies and all round nastiness is coming from the minority side of the debate. The majority have shown remarkable patience and control, but we have a right – even a duty – to call the minority out on their transgressions and crackpot theories.
Care to give us a profile of the offender? I would but I'd probably be banned. You bet it's a worry. So many acts of violence can come out of left field.
I'd rather leave that to the police because I have no idea. Not enough information for me to make an educated guess. The fuzz may know more from their enquiries.
Possibly someone with an alternative New Age outlook from the misuse of "earth plain" for earthly plane, but who knows – that could just be a ruse? It could be anyone – smart or stupid – at this point.
Random use of capitalization suggests a flakey new-ager. Not younger generation – they all seem allergic to capital letters. But new-agers aren't into violence so someone more fringe than that I reckon.
“Where the Omicron surge has begun, the priority should be to avoid and reduce harm among the vulnerable, and minimise disruption to health systems and essential services,” Kluge [ WHO Regional Director for Europe] said. “This means prioritising vulnerable people for primary course and booster doses, advising them to avoid closed, crowded spaces, and offering the possibility to work remotely wherever possible until the infection surge passes.”
the WHO Technical Advisory Group on Covid-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-Co-VAC) said: "A vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable."
So…one booster good, two booster bad? Booster no good? Primary injection good, booster no good? Arse? Elbow? Why is the NZ government about to set 5 year olds and above off on an unsustainable trajectory of injections that were developed for a virus "as was" in 2019 and about which Pfizer says – that two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant?
I guess it must be for the greater good. Or something or other.
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake. I believe the claim is that they will have developed an Omicron specific vaccine by March, not that it'll be available by March.
Anyway. Why is NZ about to embark on this programme that will inject, basically, a defunct medicine into children over 5 years old?
Putting all other considerations aside for the moment, wouldn't a more sensible route on any "one size fits all vaccine" strategy, be to hold off injecting children who face almost no risk from Covid until a vaccine geared to offer protection to Omicron was actually available?
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake.
Hope is a powerful thing. I sought out my Pfizer booster dose on 4 Jan. 2022, in the hope (and expectation) of being well (not perfectly; well) protected against Omicron when that variant spreads through Kiwis in the next few months.
To all who would rather roll the dice and put their faith in an under-educated or COVID-naive immune system, best of luck – a large proportion of you will be fine, just not as large as the proportion of those who opted for a Pfizer booster.
While two doses still provide good protection against severe illness, the study found that booster shots increased protection against symptomatic infection to 75 per cent.
That sounds reasonable to me. I assumed the booster would be an up-graded version, tailored to the incoming iteration of the virus. There is, I suppose, room to explore the reason for using the "base" vaccine again, but I've not read that explanation – can anyone provide it? Thanks.
Yeah gets to me ,mans arrogance always to the fore ,you could feel the affrontery when you brought up that genesis stuff the other night ,you could have mentioned the condemning of women to an eternity of pain in childbirth also another very strange construct .
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Buzz from the BeehiveThe text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary. It can be quickly analysed ...
For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
Questions need to be asked on both sides of the worldPeter Williams writes – The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop:The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
TL;DR:Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
Bob Edlin writes – The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
The New Zealand public voted for a change in direction at the 2023 general election and that is exactly what this coalition government has been delivering in its first 100 days. There was an immediate focus on the economy, easing the cost of living, cracking down on law and order ...
The Government has left the health system as an afterthought, announcing half-baked targets at the last minute of their 100-day plan, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
Kiwis are still waiting for their promised cost of living support after 100 days of a National Government that is taking us backwards, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
100 days of National taking NZ backwardsThe National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
The Government must commit to funding free and healthy school lunches, as thousands of people sign the petition to keep them, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti says. ...
If the Government was serious about moving families into public housing, they would build more houses so there is actually somewhere for people to go. ...
The free and healthy school lunches programme feeds our kids, helps them to learn, and saves families money – but it is at risk under this Government, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
The Government’s proposed changes to Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPO) add almost nothing new and are merely an attempt to distract from its plans to loosen gun laws, police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and justice spokesperson Dr Duncan Webb said. ...
The great Victorian era English politician Lord Macauley stood in the British House of Parliament and said, "The gallery in which the reporters sit has become a fourth estate of the realm".He understood and outlined even way back then, the significant role and influence media have in a democracy. ...
"The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April. ...
Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand. Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships. “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland Acknowledgements and opening Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says. “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024 Acknowledgements and opening Morena, Nga Mihi Nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country. “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week. “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee. “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today. “The Amendment Paper represents ...
Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level. “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024. “Lower fruit and vege ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction. Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness. It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology. It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
Pacific Media Watch Earthwise hosts Lois and Martin Griffiths. Earthwise presenters Lois and Martin Griffiths on Plains FM 96.9 community radio talk to Dr David Robie, a New Zealand author, independent journalist and media educator with a passion for the Asia-Pacific region. David talks about the struggle to raise awareness ...
Pacific Media Watch Ismail al-Ghoul, an Al Jazeera Arabic correspondent who was held for 12 hours at Gaza’s al-Shifa hospital, says Israeli forces rounded up Palestinian journalists at the facility and made them kneel on the ground for hours, while naked and blindfolded. “The occupation forces handcuffed and blindfolded us ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Wood, Program Director, Energy, Grattan Institute chinasong, Shutterstock Electricity customers in four Australian states can breathe a sigh of relief. After two years in a row of 20% price increases, power prices have finally stabilised. In many places they’re ...
Chumbawamba have reportedly issued the deputy PM a cease-and-desist notice after he used their song 'Tubthumping' before his state of the nation speech. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Deborah Lupton, SHARP Professor, Vitalities Lab, Centre for Social Research in Health and Social Policy Centre, and the ARC Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision-Making and Society, UNSW Sydney kitzcorner/Shutterstock The assertion from Queensland’s chief health officer John Gerrard that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Shutterstock Why are musicians so keen to get played on the radio? It can’t be because of the money. In Australia they are paid at rates so low they ...
"Farmers make a point not to tell our urban cousins how to live, yet Chlöe from central Auckland is hell-bent on having her say about farmers," says ACT Rural Communities spokesman Mark Cameron. “On her first day in the House as Green ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Curran, Associate Professor of Ecology, Lincoln University, New Zealand Getty Images/Gerald Corsi In the latest move to reform environmental laws in New Zealand, the coalition government has introduced a bill to fast-track consenting processes for projects deemed to ...
Uber has argued it does not have as much control over drivers as the unions suggest, and wants a judgment ruling that drivers are employees and not contractors set aside and sent back to the Employment Court. The 2022 ruling followed a three-week hearing in which four drivers sought to ...
What can and can’t be purchased by disabled people or their carers has been slashed in an effort by the Ministry of Disabled People Whaikaha to save money. The purchasing guidelines, a set of rules that sets out what can be purchased using the various streams of Government disability funding, ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Tod Wright and Hien Nguyen, Fiscal incidence in New Zealand: The effects of taxes and benefits on household incomes in tax year 2018/19 . Analyses of the distributional impact of taxation and government ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Cory Davis, Boston Hart and Benjamin Stubbing, Household cost-of-living impacts from the Emissions Trading Scheme and using transfers to mitigate regressive outcomes . This Analytical Note ...
A coalition of public transport and climate organisations, united as ‘Transport for All’, is actively opposing the government’s transport proposals. The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) includes plans for higher fares for public transport, ...
Greater Wellington is inviting feedback on proposed changes to its Revenue and Financing Policy. The Revenue and Financing Policy covers the Council’s various sources of funding, and how the cost of services is shared across the region. This includes ...
Labour has conceded it could have done more to deal with disruptive state housing tenants while in government but says the current coalition is going too far. ...
The band has asked their record label to issue a cease and desist to stop the NZ First leader using their 1997 hit to support his ‘misguided political views’. “I get knocked down, but I get up again,” blared through the speakers on Sunday as Winston Peters took the stage ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist Food rationing is underway in remote areas in Papua New Guinea’s Highlands following torrential rain and flash flooding. More than 20 people have been reported dead in Chimbu Province. In nearby Enga Province, the centre of last month’s massacre, a 15-year-old boy has been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Hughes, Lecturer, Research School of Management, Australian National University After months of debate and intrigue, the AFL’s 19th and newest team, the Tasmania Devils, finally launched its jumper, logo and colours in Devonport this week. The Devils will wear green, ...
Brannavan Gnanalingam reviews the debut novel by Saraid de Silva.One of the most baffling things for children who move to a new country is what their parents’ (or grandparents’) lives were like prior to moving – for kids in particular, they’re too busy trying to fit in in their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Gaunson, Associate Professor in Cinema Studies, RMIT University Narelle Portanier/Binge “If you don’t know who your mob are, you don’t know who you are,” Detective Andrea “Andie” Whitford (played by Leah Purcell) is told early into the new crime ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elise Klein, Associate professor, Australian National University It’s commonly accepted that women do the vast majority of caregiving in Australian society. But less appreciated is that Indigenous women do larger amounts of unpaid care than any other group. Working with the Aboriginal ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne Joe Biden and Donald Trump have both secured their parties’ nominations for the November 5 United States general election by winning a ...
Comment: There has been a striking contrast in trans-Tasman interest about Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi’s visit to New Zealand and Australia. While the Australian press has been full of articles about the visit – including his curious decision to meet with former prime minister and China booster Paul Keating ...
After years of pressuring banks and other institutions to stop investing in fossil fuels, climate campaigners are making some progress. So how does divestment work?For years, climate activists have been pushing banks and other big institutions to divest from fossil fuels. New research from climate advocacy group 350 Aotearoa ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. The three young Polynesians are part of a K-pop fan community in Tāmaki Makaurau. It’s one of many that have sprung up worldwide as K-pop has gone ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. This one-off documentary presents three intimate portraits of young Polynesians who are pulled into a Korean cultural phenomenon. K-POLYS is directed by Litia Tuiburelevu, Produced by Hex ...
There’s ample evidence demonstrating free school lunch programmes provide wide benefits across schools, households and communities according to public health researchers. ACT Minister David Seymour wants to reduce the spending on Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
By Wata Shaw in Suva Fiji is facing an exodus of Fijians as many are leaving for overseas seeking employment and education and others are migrating, says Opposition MP Viliame Naupoto. Speaking in Parliament, he said: “His Excellency’s speech (Ratu Wiliame Katonivere) comes after a little over one year of ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming comments from Christopher Luxon this morning recommitting to ‘no new taxes’ as part of Budget 2024. “Mr Luxon’s refusal at the Post-Cabinet press conference yesterday to repeat the ‘no new taxes’ promise ...
SAFE is urgently calling on the Environment Committee to reject the Government’s Fast-Track Approvals Bill, and is urging New Zealanders to rally behind the call. The proposed Bill, currently under consideration with the Environment select committee, ...
Teammates who spend all their time picking fights with spectators are only helpful for the other team, writes Madeleine Chapman. Anyone who has ever played a team sport competitively, particularly as a child and particularly, for some reason, basketball, will know that there’s a lot of politics involved. While there ...
The long-running Wellington music festival is too focused on the Jim Beam-ness and not enough on the Homegrown-ness.There is something about Homegrown that’s difficult to place. A barely perceptible-ness. Like feeling a ghost is watching you from the corner of the room but when you look, there’s nothing there. ...
The latest Ipsos New Zealand Issues Monitor reveals that fewer New Zealanders believe crime / law and order is one of the top issues facing our country. In 2018, Ipsos New Zealand started tracking the key issues facing New Zealand. In this wave ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Griffiths, Deputy Program Director, Budgets and Government, Grattan Institute Australia’s political donations rules are woefully inadequate, but donations reform is finally on the agenda. The federal government has signalled its interest in reform and will soon begin briefing MPs on its ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Patrick Taylor, Chief Environmental Scientist, EPA Victoria; Honorary Professor, School of Natural Sciences, Macquarie University Naiyana Somchitkaeo/Shutterstock A recent study published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine has linked microplastics with risk to human health. The study ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Albert Van Dijk, Professor, Water and Landscape Dynamics, Fenner School of Environment & Society, Australian National University Global climate records were shattered in 2023, from air and sea temperatures to sea-level rise and sea-ice extent. Scores of countries recorded their hottest year ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a teacher explains why he and his partner are in frugal mode – and how they’re making it work. Gender: Male Age: 35Ethnicity: Pākehā Role: I am an intermediate school teacher and my partner is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Bendall, Senior Lecturer, Institute for Humanities and Social Sciences, Australian Catholic University Binge Mary & George, the new British television drama series, depicts the real-life story of Mary Villiers and her son George, and their social climbing at the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jason Nassios, Associate Professor, Centre of Policy Studies, Victoria University This article is part of The Conversation’s series examining the housing crisis. Read the other articles in the series here. Australian state and federal governments spend money in many ways to ...
The finance minister is denying that there’s a $5.6b shortfall in paying for the government’s campaign promises, including tax cuts. At his post-cabinet press conference yesterday, the PM refused to rule out new taxes to pay for the cuts, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s ...
Kāinga Ora tenants abused by their neighbours are doubting the government's crackdown on disruptive tenants will make a difference on their behaviour. ...
Kāinga Ora is New Zealand’s biggest residential landlord, housing more than 180,000 vulnerable people in more than 67,000 properties. Yesterday the government announced a crackdown on its tenants who fall behind on rent. One longtime Kāinga Ora tenant shares her experience.For 18 years I lived in a 1960s standalone ...
Why does this myth persist, and what’s the real reason our skin is suffering?It’s one of the biggest international grievances New Zealanders hold, up there with the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior and 1981’s underarm incident. We’re quick to tell international travellers that the world’s pollution led to the ...
Opinion: In a move that has shocked road safety advocates across the country, the new Minister of Transport, Simeon Brown, is poised to abandon the previous government’s speed limit reduction policy, particularly around schools. Even more alarmingly, he wants school speed limits to be variable rather than full-time, arguing ...
Auckland Council is opposing a fast-track development backed by Sir John Kirwan and Spark NZ, because it doesn’t meet stringent new climate adaptation requirements The post Surf-data centre faces new 3.8C climate warming rules appeared first on Newsroom. ...
When the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act was introduced in 2009 it was firmly targeted at gangs and drugs. The legislation means police no longer need a conviction to seize assets that criminals can’t prove were paid for legitimately, as long as their alleged offences are punishable by more than a ...
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Wildland! I got it from the local library, and it's the best insight into the dysfunction of the USA that an investigative journalist can do using well-selected interviews & a natural rapport with those he talks to.
He mentions seeing in Clarksburg during the first pandemic year the trendy T-shirt with the slogan West Virginia: Self Isolating Since 1863. Here's the origin of that…
Coal country. Manchin!
A Democrat, of course. An avatar of democracy. The best that money can buy.
I've mentioned this on here many times before, but Manchin is a DINOsaur. Democrat In Name Only. He caucuses with the Democrats but in almost every other respect his political thought resides on the other side of the political divide. Indeed he has in recent times suggested that he may leave the Democrats and continue his tenure in the Senate as an Independent,but caucusing with the Democrats a la Bernice Saunders. That would avoid the loss of the Senate from the Democrats to the Republicans, and would also allow him to continue to control the passage of any meaningful legislation to his personal agenda.
Yeah I get the picture. However, that framing kinda disregards how such people get to be selected by the party in the first place. It tries to ignore the representative part of democracy. If he didn't seem representative of democratic interests, they would not have selected him.
Then there's the other dimension that the framing disregards: why democrat voters continue to vote for him instead of a democrat challenger.
So you can see why the framing appears suspect to a centrist like me. It's as if those who invented DINO were trying to dissociate themselves from other democrats. In other words, it suggests an internal divide within the party.
If that is a revelation new to you, then you have not been paying attention. There is a huge divide within the Democrats Manchin is one – his compatriot Kyrsten Simena from Arizona have together stuffed up practically all of the progressive legislation introduced to the Senate by the House in support of the Biden Administrations Build Back Better policies – much of it addressed to inproving the financial position of poor and middle class Families addressing climate change and a raft of other progressive initiatives. Their obstructionist actions do not go unnoticed by the wealthy nor by the voters who put them there.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/28/joe-manchin-kyrsten-sinema-build-back-better-plan
The Greens going back to their roots is a great idea for keeping everyone happy. The Greens will feel they are honest to their cause and are holding everyone to account. The Right can relax because finally the Greens in power won't be an issue.
For people like me who believe MAN made climate change is a scam, I couldn’'t be happier.
Commentator, Tiger Mountain, says the Right has a thing about the Greens – he's right, we think they are nuts. Now, any honest righty, has to admit the the Greens do make some pertinent points. And they have/are changing the way will view our environment.
Take farmers for example. Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them, and Delahunty’ still not happy with farmers. Meanwhile, the latte drinking, Fair Trade shopping, organic munching, vegan touting city Green slicker, who lives in an environment that may be more detrimental towards global pollution gets a free ride.
Yeah, we don't like the Greens.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
[long standing policy, no climate denial under my posts. – weka]
do you speak for all idiots, or just a small percentage?
I speak for myself. Do you have anything to add apart from nothing?
No, I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn't be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
Bush fires are also caused by climate change apparently.
Opps, reply meant for Robert.
No I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn’t be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
The fact that some early AGW climate change alarmists got their predictions horribly wrong about how quickly the ice would melt & seas flood low-lying regions, & didn’t understand the complexity of how AGW would affect jet streams & weather systems (producing the weather extremes & anomalies we are seeing far more of today) doesn’t mean the theory & science is wrong.
I think the science is now being proved right every year, with increasing ice mass loss, many more weather extremes, oceans warming, and in this country ever warmer Winters.
But, if you believe the climate is changing but anthropogenic global warming is not the cause, what do you believe the cause actually is?
"In fact I shouldn't be writing this…"
Weka agrees.
Thanks, weka.
Edit: Blade! Don’t look up! 🙂
Always helpful to moderation when people make their position abundantly clear 😈
lol the edit. That phrase is going to be handy.
Haven't had to tell people not to do climate denial under my posts for ages. Don't even bother putting a note at the bottom of the posts now. Things have changed.
There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.
Probably confused also as to why its neighbour doesn't have Covid.
Probably a hoax.
The whole thing.
Moon landing…
Dinosaurs…
Apparently, satellites have revealed the remains of what can only be Noah's ark, on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, or Arrowroot, or somewhere.
I knew it!
''There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.''
I bit of self reflection on your part is not a bad thing, Robert. Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers.
The first time I came across CC as a theory was in a eco/ greenie mag called Maggie's Farm ( circa1986).
An article in that mag was by R,HeruAyani and Parri White: Quote:
''While you sleep weather extremes around the world are breaking century old records''
They went on suggest ozone depletion as a major cause of climate change. Of course that is still debated.
CC is the meme for our age. In a 100 years time this time period will be a major study in universities around the world. Students will gasp at how science became a political expedient for pushing agendas.
Come back to us in 2 years time, Blade, when the Arctic goes ice free, about September 2023. Then tell us the climate isn't rapidly changing!
You are basing this on what, Tony? Climate modelling…or One News?
https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/wmo-recognizes-new-arctic-temperature-record-of-38%E2%81%B0c
I may stick to the more relevant Antarctic, Tony. I guess with all this melting ice you will be worried about ocean levels rising and flooding parts of coastal continents?
''In fact, the Antarctic continent has not warmed in the past seven decades, despite a steady increase in the atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.''
"Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers."
Quote of the age.
Only if you can't see a common thread, Robert. And it seems you can't.
The recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels doesn't look like a 'natural' trend. All that fossil fuel carbon has to go – somewhere.
Is the recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels driving an alarmingly rapid rise in average global temperatures? The consensus opinion of climate scientists is 'YES'.
Don't understand how/why a rational person could/would conclude otherwise, although there are some who ‘think’ that this iteration of civilisation is too big to fail, while simultaneously believing that 8 billion puny humans couldn’t possibly compromise the life-sustaining global cycles of spaceship Earth. Amazing, and quite funny in its own way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
Being a believer is for religion, man made climate change is a scientifically proven fact, weather one "believes " is irrelevant.
For an antiscience guy you come across well normally. All that hooha about the hockey stick turned out to be due to using wrong data sets. I read a book about it once by a denier & thought it rather good at the time but years later became aware that the deniers were misrepresenting a northern hemisphere regional effect as global. Still not sure if it was deliberate fakery or inadvertent confusion on their part. Think it was either the medieval warming period or the little ice age that followed that they used. I vaguely recall the logic ran like this: doesn't show up on Gore's hockey stick so he got it wrong.
Well, elementary! Gore didn't conjure anything. He used the results of the global measuring system. On the volcano in Hawaii, if I recall right, there's a sampling station.
Major regional variations that produce different climates are extremely interesting and haven't featured much in media. The one that created the Sahara, for instance, only a few millennia back. Israel was the land of milk & honey according to the bible when Joshua led his genocide campaign on God's instruction to kill all the indigenous people including women & children. Now mostly desert. Cedars of Lebanon built Solomon's temple.
Maybe I should cancel my NewScientist subscription, Dennis? Maybe I should give it to you?
I left the mainstream science view behind over half a century ago, even before I graduated. Not saying NS has no value – probably do still publish worthy stuff – but not enough leading-edge focus for me. Think the last one I checked out was in the '80s.
Well, Nature is meant to be the gold standard in academic research publication. But they are so blinkered I don't waste my time. Can you suggest suitable reading material.
Depends on your interests – there's no go to place for all of science. I started in physics but shifted towards a multidisciplinary overview. About the only useful skill you get from universities is an inkling of how to learn. Scan a bunch of sources to get the gist of the topic, that sort of thing.
If your inner bullshit detector is good, figure out the authorities in the field of interest, then go for those currently setting the pace. Especially useful are books written by experts who are trying to inform the public about key findings.
One needs to be able to detect any ideology driving the author, and then gauge how much it warps his/her judgment of the elements of significance in the field or in the issues. Bias is human nature but it need not put a reader off if you can see how much it is affecting the author's descriptions.
NS was and still is useful for getting an short overview across a large number of fields. I have never read it for depth. I have read it for overview.
Periodically I renew a online subscription – but it really depends on how flush I feel, and if I think I have time to read it. It is (for instance) way behind my annual payment to wikipedia – which I random read topics on for much the same reasons that I have read NS.
But these days I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages.
I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages
Yeah, me too. I agree a wiki on a topic is fastest & easiest for an overview. It will usually be near the top of our google search page.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection. That's an internal mental discipline that all long-time users refine but I'm always impressed by how often minor variations throw up new gold nuggets when searching online.
It's funny. I use a couple of programs at work, but we collaborate with other people and that can involve figuring out the basics of programs completely new to me.
Trying to do the same stuff in each program, there are a couple of new-to-me programs that my ignorance of is so complete that I can't even reliably google how to do something. The developers and operating community have such a completely different orientation to my brainstylez that I literally don't have the words.
R is a good example: to take a column from one table and join it with another is the function "cbind". So you need to know that the math crowd call them "columns" not "fields" in order to get the "c", and they "bind" rather than "join" or "merge" to get the rest of the function name. I was script-punching without any understanding for months before that clicked in my head. Which meant my google searches were all about "fields" and "joins" in R, and bore little fruit and I flailed about in the water, praying for the project to end lol.
Technicalities in your 3rd paragraph defeat my comprehension but I get the overall gist. Reminds us that we need language to communicate, and language is produced by a community.
Decoding, deciphering, requires an interpretive key, schema, algorithm. So you get a triadic structure: system A, bridging key, system B – which often maps onto the relation of person to group. The relation then becomes an info channel or conduit.
New Scientist subscription? Blade are you by any chance Deborah Russell.
She seems to get her information on biological science from New Scientist, claming that she read there that sex was on a spectrum. Its not. With the exception of a fraction of a fraction of people (intersex, but not most intersex) humans are either male or female and you can't change your biological sex
See Iprent's post above. He hits the nail on the head regarding NS.
Apart from that I wouldn't have a clue what your post is about. I'm sure it's something profound. It's just a little over my IQ quadrant.
Hi Blade, yes apologies that was a bit obscure.
in the Select Committee hearings on the BMDRR Bill Deborah Russell quoted or rather mis-quoted an article from Scientific American about 3. or 4 times, saying sex was on a spectrum.
Ok, cool.
Have existed in that amazingly vast, chaotic, open, non linear, long term stable system that is the Earths climate for 56 years. I can confirm I haven't noticed any unusual changes at all over that time. And I live on the coast.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/ocean-temperatures-earth-heat-increase-record
But don't let that bother you. With your head firmly in the sand dunes you won't see a thing.
I agree with Macro. Unlike coge, I look for signs. I like to sail on an inland lake. In summer 30 years ago we would often get 15+ knots of sea breeze come inland from the coast. Now we have a maritime heat wave: the sea water around NZ is at record warmth. With less temperature differential, we now get only a mild sea breeze, usually later in the day. OK coge?
Sorry, I didn't know that. But I wasn't denying climate change.
denial includes denial that humans are causing it.
No, it doesn't. What it includes is two theories about climate change if you believe the climate is changing. You have made your mind up on vacillating evidence. I also have made my mind up on vacillating evidence. The science is not proven in my opinion. When it is I will be more than happy to admit I'm wrong….will you ? I find it a worry that there is no middle ground with many on this blog. Even though I have conceded points to the Greens in my original post, that's not good enough. That attitude is fine on a blog. But that attitude in society is a real problem…as is well documented at the moment. It's also why I want the Greens to be nowhere near the true levers of power.
The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.
just pointing out where the boundaries are for commenting under my posts.
I also consider ‘it’s too late’ and ‘there’s nothing we can do’ to be a form of denial and have a limited tolerance for that.
''The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.''
There's a fair point there. One spin off from a CC precautionary principle as you put it, is a focus on environmental pollution and steps under way to curtail that problem worldwide. I don't know of any environmental pollution deniers.
The problem with the present situation is the indoctrination of bright young minds by a school system that at its higher levels will book no alternative views to accepted current thought on climate change.
Then we have the ''The New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme.' and carbon credits sinking good NZ farming land into pine trees. Just last night a news item showed a major East Coast pastural farm waiting for permission to be sold to overseas buyers. Probably for planting in pines.
You can blame National, Act, NZF and to an extent Labour for that. The Greens had a different plan, that would have integrated environmental protection and regeneration.
I do blame any political party that believes in man made climate change.
I use both/and logic to transcend a binary like that. For instance, we know that natural climate change happens and sufficient evidence exists to give us confidence that AGW is a happening thing.
I encountered both/and logic in electronic circuit design & applied maths (1968/9) but due to being a lateral thinker I noticed I could use it as an abstract metaphysical framing device. Works well as such & very useful in politics.
👍
But I wasn’t denying climate change.
Still waiting for your answer to my question what do YOU think is causing it, Blade?
''Sorry, Gezza. We have debated this issue ( not just you) many times before on different blogs. It just becomes a post/link feast of differing supposed official views.''
See Drowsy M. Kram's post above.
mod note for you Blade
Personally I think The Greens should take a play out of Winstons playbook (only a small play) and stop saying they'll only go with Labour, stop letting Labour take them for granted.
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
At the moment The Greens are Labours doormat or maybe a better analogy would be The Greens are the faithful stay at home girlfriend that doesn't even get a bunch of flowers every now and then and Labour is the philandering boyfriend that goes around trying to woo other parties (Winston) and when all else fails for Labour they can slink off back to The Greens who'll welcome them back with open…arms, every time.
Basically The Greens should know their true worth and play a little hard to get sometimes
Of course if National were to offer enough concessions then The Greens could use that to leverage more gains from Labour…
this is a good argument, apart from the the idea of forming government with National 😉
Yes. My argument is that their position should be 'cross benches or coalition, the choice is ours'. That's where the leverage is now.
It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
The Greens should try to "play" the big parties?
Coquettishly fluttering their eyelashes at National, to make Labour jealous in the hope they'll shower them with gifts and enticements?
A bit transparent though, isn't it?
Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.
Better to accept the lop-sidedness of politics, hold fast to the best position available and apply the squeeze to the inner-organs in order to extract the most juice available, whether the public can see it or not (mostly not, it seems, judging from comments here).
'A bit transparent though, isn't it?'
In politics the more transparency the better I'd have thought
'Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.'
I guess it comes down to what you consider more important I guess, pride or results.
Pride or cleaner rivers
Pride or increased funding for pest control
Etc etc
National for clean rivers!
That sort of thing?
Have the Nats fallen out with farmers?
I hadn't heard!
Missing the point Robert (deliberately so I'm thinking)
Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about
Remember Labour is not your friend, they will ditch you when it becomes politically expedient so use Labour (or National) when you can for the greater good of NZ
Or not.
"Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about"
Seems VERY naive, Pucky!
National are hardly likely to want to "go into talks" with The Greens, in the knowledge that all that could result is The Greens getting more influence in a Labour-led government, than they would have if they didn't hold the talks with the Nats!
Or are you suggesting The Greens should trick National, mislead them into thinking they might coalesce with them, if the offers were good enough…
It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest 🙂
'It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest'
Good luck playing second fiddle to Winston or the next political party that comes along and talks to both sides
Pucky, my 2c worth is that the only point in the Greens being prepared to hold coalition talks with National would be if National had a major shift in their (yet to be announced, under Luxon) policies that indicated a significant paradigm shift towards more social & environmental policies that the Greens might find a match to Labour’s, such that they had a REAL choice of influencing either Labour OR National even more towards policies that matched the issues the Greens campaign on.
I agree the Greens shouldn’t rule out a coalition with National on principle, but frankly I don’t see this paradigm shift happening with National. And absent that shift, I can’t see the point in the Greens going thru the motions only with National in the forlorn hope Labour might feel compelled to give them more. I don’t think Labour are that naïve.
Then they should resign themselves to always, and I mean always, getting less than they're worth and not even being in coalition government if Labour need votes elsewhere
Which I guess, in real terms, means the environment will always be worse off
I think I stated my point of view badly. I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.
But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.
It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.
If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.
'I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.'
– Agreed 100%
'But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.'
– Again agreed
'It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.'
– Slightly disagree, far too much of the tail wagging the dog goes on with MMP, imho, but certainly National should go in with good faith
'If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.'
– If The Greens are willing to use that leverage
If The Greens are willing to use that leverage
They’d be crazy NOT to in that situation, Pucky. They’d have 2 years to go to find a way to mollify irritated voters if some hard Green policies were implemented in the first year of a coalition or support agreement. NZ voters forget quickly. That’s what Winston Peters traded on so well for decades.
How would that work though? Because the Greens and everyone already know what National would offer, and the Greens have decided that there's nothing there for them. What you are suggesting is a major change in GP positioning from where it is now (National and Greens have no shared policy on which to cooperate) to one that is saying 'we will negotiate with National'.
Lol. The Greens worth is dependent upon not lying to the public and not supporting an anti-environment, anti-social justice government. If National have such shit green policies, that's on National and Nat voters, not the Greens.
Are you taking the piss? The Greens sit to the left of Labour. What could National possibly have to offer that would be of interest. Details please.
GP basic position is: don't compromise on values, be flexible on policy negotiations. That's principle.
if National were to offer enough concessions
The sky might fall. Can't have that! So you can see why they don't. In fact, their use of the precautionary principle has been exemplary: so far, not a single Nat leader has even offered a single concession!
Fear of flying. Need to remain a limpet & cling on to that rock! 🙄
I haven’t forgotten that James, when he became co-leader, responded to a critique along your lines by saying of the Nats “Well, if they send me a proposal, I’ll consider it.” The timid wee things weren’t brave enough to do so…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtDvmV4zr-Q
Blade @ 2.
Jesus, a climate denier still exists in the face of damning evidence across the globe. I thought they had gone into hiding with their tails between their legs. So they should.
Bullshit. Labour has frequently commended these farmers for the environmental work they are doing. I am not going to scrawl through hordes of items looking for them, but there is plenty of evidence that the Labour Govt. has acknowledged the contribution being made by farmers. Not all farmers mind…
We have a CC denier in the face of so much to the contrary who infers to being environmentally conscious. There's a name for such people but it monetarily escapes me.
Intelligent.
A person with oxymoron characteristics is more like it.
No, Contrarian would be the right word in your case.
An intelligent person would be able to clearly articulate WHY they consider that all the scientists who agree that the evidence is incontrovertible that AGWCC is actually happening are wrong – by stating what scientific evidence they are relying on is incorrect, and precisely why and how it is incorrect. Or at the very least be able to summarise their argument along those lines. Imo.
An unintelligent or lazy person would say that all those scientists are simply wrong, that they are captured by [insert political correctness, groupthink, govt funding, or whatever other criticism they currently favour], & should not be indoctrinating children, but not be able to back that statement up with a competing scientific explanation &/or links and/or their own favourite theory that explains why climate change is happening & they don’t dispute that.
Jmho The Greens shld have bailed out of the coalition when LINO ( Labour in name only) brought in social apartheid against the unvaxed. The evidence is the unvaxed are no danger to the nation's health and to coerce with mandates on pain of losing your livelihood and social exclusion is a crime against citizens and humanity.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Unfortunately it seems like you can't change pugnacious Rogue!
'pugnacious Rogue'
I like it
Many people I come across think the Greens are very well-intentioned but impractical. In particular their cycle lane emphasis for a region like Wellington. In the Hutt at great cost a cycle lane was put right through from the northern end into the city, and completed months ago. Rarely, very rarely, is a cyclist seen on it. And not just from my observation, but others as well. Given the rare usage it was a very expensive project.
However, the Hutt river trail which has been there for many years is well used, particularly at weekends.
As for Wellington – the narrow, hilly streets and the strong winds mean only a tiny number of cyclists will ever be brave enough to navigate the dangerous streets.
Wellington is not Amsterdam or Copenhagen. Now the talk is to get rid of cars in the central city and rely on a very unreliable bus system. So shoppers with their parcels, the elderly or those with a disability, young mums with a baby and toddler, business people, people going to dentist/doctor appointments, will be very inconvienced. The Green councillors need a reality check. Not everyone is able to walk one end of the city to the other if the bus is full, or fails to turn up (happens often).
What are the practical, real solutions for Wellington's situation? Talk has been going on for years and years.
Agreed.
Cycle lanes and rail trails are great, I've walked the Central Otago Rail Trail (well mostly) and plan on doing it again but practicalities must come into it
Personally I'd like to see councils and the government put on more free buses in and around city centres, have more routes, have more buses
Not because I like the idea of subsidies but its the only way more people will use the buses and then less people will need to take vehicles into the city if the buses are more convenient
(I personally don't go into the city much at all, try to avoid it as much as possible)
It's been bugging me – and the "It's Time' post is pretty clogged up, so I'll ask here –
Julian Richards described our healthcare system as "McDonald's Heathcare in several comments and when asked, said
I'm sorry, but I don't get it.
What's McDonald's about it? Is it:
– finding someone when you need them, saying "how can I help you?"
– the list of goods you can pick off a predefined menu?
– mass production churning out the same quality product to each outlet?
– the same service and menu for everyone regardless of ethnicity, sex, gender, age, occupation, income and location.
– that it's readily available everywhere?
– that it's bad for you in large doses?
or is that there's always someone asking "would you like fries with that?"
because sure as heck, there are no added extras in the public health system and I can't envisage any of the other comparisons working either.
Can anyone clarify for this unimaginative person?
Julian can't (or won't) even explain his own argument, so I'm not sure anyone else can either 😉
Your confusion is down to Julian's obfuscation, miravox.
"McDonald's heathcare, that's a pretty clear conceptual metaphor" illustrates his method of "debate" where he sweeps the table clean of crockery and cutlery, then demands you reset it yourself, if you're not happy!
(How's that for a pretty clear conceptual metaphor?)
that's a fantastic and very clear conceptual metaphor Robert 😁
I can see that one quite clearly 🙂
I get that and it is a good description of the process, added to it he snaps out the comment in a muffled way, that you cannot quite hear or grasp, as he goes out the door never to be seen again to give guidance. So you reset and he again the comment is repeated and again you can't get the relevance, so you look carefully at the crockery and start again with what you think you heard. Again he returns and says that everything you have done proves that
a you didn't know what a table is, dishes are
b you lack sympathy or empathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
or
you have empathy or sympathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
I'm guessing it was a reference to the "one size fits all" aspect of the so-called Public Health response.
In other words, it's using the "bog standard" McD model of 'food' (a McD is a McD is a McD and everyone gets the same McD no matter where in the world) as a contrast to the very basic medical premise that patients are individual people with individual and various medical needs – that's been cast aside in favour of the singular focus of "injections for all".
ah, I see. He's… not right (imo).
Our public health response to covid is the Swiss Cheese model
Moreover, the response has adapted to see individuals and groups. I am definitely one who was critical of the lack of bespoke vaccine roll-outs, in particular, for various groups (happy with the routine MIQ part of the response though – I don't think people should be treated differently in this instance. But that's the problem isn't it – different parts of the response require different strategies to make it work.
I guess it depends on how important you see vaccination in the response. I see it as critical, just the way I see treated drinking water as critical to avoiding cholera… maybe that's a McDonald's 3-waters response?
I just hope it's not a common phrasing (I'd not heard it before). I don't think it's helpful for anyone in healthcare debates.
Really? far be for me to query about the McDonalds menu. I my life I have only ever had two Burgers from McDonalds……one here in Wellington that was completely unremarkable but I did notice the pickle. Then after being hungry and a bit lost in a Mexican city, Guadalajara I think, I had the same at a McDonalds there and noticed that the pickle was completely different, the salad was different as well.
Public Health works on/with populations.
Injections have been recommended, They have not be forced on people no matter what kind of hyperbole you believe surrounds it.
There have been clinics for and attention paid to the immuno compromised. I am not sure what could be done about the nay sayers except to provide cool, calm and reliable information together with good access to facilities and let them make up their minds.
Btw -thanks for your response to my comment on the 'it's time' post – much appreciated
(I couldn't leave a response to you there for some reason)
The ice cream machine is always broken?
They have ice-cream?
(or not, it seems).
https://www.google.com/search?q=mcdonalds+ice+cream+machine+meme&rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ690NZ690&oq=mcdonalds+ice+cream+machine+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0i512l4j0i20i263i512j0i512l4.6606j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Nah – especially if narrowing down the metaphor to just the vaccine roll-out, which I suppose was the point (?)
The vaccine roll-out seems far more efficient than McDonald's broken ice-cream machine response 😉
'The vaccine roll-out seems far more efficient than McDonald's broken ice-cream machine response'
Not a very high bar to clear…
If it is any consolation I don't get the McDonalds health care metaphor and it is it not clear or conceptual. That poster often has Farcebook like responses or reckons and rarely cites.
He has said (further up in the discussion you have linked to) that natural immunity is better, an anti vax stance that taken to its logical end would mean that many many more people would die in search of a natural immunity to Covid. Many more would recover with long term deficits – Long Covid. Speaking of the Alpha and Delta variants.
Here is a link to Johns Hopkins – a source I would trust https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know.
It was known early on that antibodies built up by the body after having a Covid infection were not long lasting, transitory, was one word I remember hearing. This then led to people being reinfected well after the 28 day period allowed for recovery from Covid19.
Thanks, Shanreagh – I too thought about this issue of "natural immunity" and considered the phenomenon in terms of the seasonal "flu". It may be, as weka indicates, that some "bolstering" of a person's immune system occurs with an initial dose of the flu, but in terms of the response to a new virus, I can't see that. Your body's "readiness" to fight infection will perhaps be enhanced but I'm not sure how. There will be people who can explain this, no doubt.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
I think the colds, influenza and covid have some of the same family. Omicron apparently has the covid virus plus it has wrapped in part of a cold virus. I thought initially that if they do find a vaccine for Omicron, and Pfizer says that would be worthwhile, we might be on the way to finding a vaccine to prevent the common cold. This might be useful for immuno compromised people or for those who have recurrent asthma or bronchitis brought on or exacerbated by the common cold.
I have heard said that getting Covid, and running the risk that you might die or get Long Covid and then being vaccinated as soon as you can after leaving hospital will provide a very strong immunity. Not sure if that is to variants and if it wanes after a year or six months.
Personally that is a bridge too fr for me to think that getting Covid has some sort of merit. Knowing my luck and medical history, I would be one who either died or got Long Covid. The vaccine is much less risky.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was that some people appear to get a stronger immune system from having cold or flu where they have certain advantages (eg good health, the ability to take time off work to recover, good nutritional status and so on).
I don't believe this is true for covid at this time, it's novel to every human and we're still struggling to adapt.
Djokovich's double dose of covid seems to negate the natural immunity theory. Although obviously is subject to interpretation
Who knows with this person……..
Seems pretty fast and loose about many things connected with his testing, infections etc.
I don't think we can derive much learning about immunity or covid from that story.
No, he's not the sort of model for people with genuine concerns about the vaccine roll-out would want – and there are some. e.g. pharma excess profits (still), RATs fiasco in Aust, roll-out to poorer countries.
The Australian court of public opinion will be swift and harsh in their verdict, I expect, if he's found to be gaming the system.
Recent studies (and sorry, but I'm not in the space to hunt through the comments to find previously provided links atm) show that whereas infection with Omicron confers immunity to Delta, infection with Delta does not confer immunity to Omicron.
What I think we'd all agree on, is that if the doctor offered us the flu jab that was distributed to offer protection for the 2019 flu season for the 2022 flu season, we'd look at them sideways.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic. It's not that there is none, it's that some people are arguing that it's a replacement for vaccination or other measures. It's not. We need all the tools.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic
We don't know how long it lasts – but people absolutely do have immunity conferred by previous infection. The notion that a vaccine targeting only one receptor of a virus might be more effective than naturally acquired immunity that targets a broad range of receptors is….odd.
Protection from m-RNA vaccines wanes drastically over weeks to months, whereas natural immunity persists beyond the useful "shelf life" of the vaccines we're deploying.
So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)
"So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)"
Isn't that the whole point of the boosters?
If though, the boosters contain the exact-same formula the previous Pfizer vaccination contained, I'd be siding with Bill in asking wtf 🙂
Do they?
Are they up-grades?
They are exactly the same. And Pfizer isn't expressing much confidence in their drug any more.
two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant
It might still lessen severity of illness, but given Omicron appears to present as a common cold in most….
Hmmmm….
Official roll-back of the "fear porn"…
https://twitter.com/cwt_news/status/1480309340447903744?s=20
Further information
Nice clarification. Wonder if the overall co-morbidity of people classified as "covid death", (ie both vaxxed and unvaxxed) reportedly over 90% with an average of four co-morbidities , stands?
Pretty damned broad list, from Candidiasis of vulva and vagina to Victim of lightning, so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
Conditions contributing to deaths involving COVID-19, by age group, United States. Week ending 2/1/2020 to 12/5/2020.
Data as of 12/6/2020
Source: National Center for Health Statistics. National Vital Statistics System. Provisional data. 2020.
This table shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019
(COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on
average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and
by age groups. Values in the table represent number of deaths that mention the condition listed and 94% of deaths mention more than one
condition. As such, the rows should not be summed. Additional notes are listed at the end of the table.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf
so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
And that's the nub of it. Did they die with or because of a comorbidity, or did they die with or because of Covid infection?
At present and with very few 'news' reports offering up qualifiers, deaths 'with' and 'because of' are lumped in together and misleadingly presented as covid deaths.
Clunky language coming up – it makes quite a difference to an average person's perception if 800 000 covid deaths, becomes 800 000 deaths, a large number of which were among people generally suffering from comorbidities where tests revealed that covid was present.
If they didn't die of covid, then where are all the extra dead people coming from?
No idea what you mean, but re that video, it's been snipped to manipulate.
Here are the longer versions of the interview,
https://twitter.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1480710199203844098
I don't have time to pick apart the tweet you posted, other than to say fact checking this took me less then five minutes.
Here's a fact check post,
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/walensky-covid-comorbidities
My view is the biggest co morbidity that there is is not having had the vaccination.
When I read about people dying of Covid that is the first query I have.
I realise we are going to have breakthroughs to vaccinated people. .
good point.
Bingo!
From StatsChat
https://www.statschat.org.nz/2022/01/11/why-screening-is-hard/
The Covid example of the prevention paradox is the recent and controversial CDC announcement that most (vaccinated) people who get seriously ill from Covid have co-morbidities. On top of the issue of whether that’s actually a cause for rejoicing, there’s the problem that the majority [of] people who don’t get seriously ill from Covid also have co-morbidities.
My thoughts exactly!
Why did you present this version Bill, and not the actual real version that Weka has found?
Pop culture round up
Cobra Kai is quite possibly the best thing on TV today
The first season is, possibly, the best, second and third season were ok but the fourth season is, probably, the best of the lot.
If you ever wondered what happened to Johnny Lawrence afterwards this is the show for you, want to see older characters treated with respect, dignity yet not put on a pedestal then this is for you, want to see a diverse, respectful yet non-pc show then this for you
The main characters (Johnny and Daniel) are sort of where you expect them to be. Johnny lives like the 80s never ended and Daniel is successful yet both have growing to do and its a joy to see it happen (albeit rather quickly as its a tv show)
The kids in the show are probably the weakest part of the show, way 2 and 3 are ok, but in season 4 everything ramps up and even the kids (especially the new kid) are much more interesting
No one is wholly good, no one is wholly bad (or are they…) everyone is flawed and things are seen from different viewpoints
This show is what happens when people who care about the characters (and are talented) are allowed to do their thing.
It sails close to, but never into, parody and is serious enough that you get invested but also funny enough to keep you entertained.
Eagle Fang for life!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2SLqLYzJPI
It's on my list, lol
Saw the latest ghostbusters recently. Better storytelling, character arcs, and connection to the originals than the previous version, fair call. But a bit too "plucky children save the world" for my taste.
It was nice seeing an old-school deeply-constructed movie, though, rather than the standard superhero plotline (ordinary life, powers discovered/team assembled, minor defeat, lighthearted successes as team gels, major crisis, obstacle overcome, characters still the same so you can continue the franchise with little risk).
Also saw Dune: fecking awesome.
You'll like Cobra Kai, especially season 4
Ghostbusters: Afterlife had some massive plot holes but they treated the characters with respect and gave the fans what they wanted
Also compare the treatment of Luke in Disney Star wars to Egon in afterlife to see about how legacy characters should be treated
I will say McKenna Grace did a really good job and any more Ghostbusters movies with her in it would be well received
Thanks to Covid a large number of movies have been delayed so we're seeing them now, the M-She-U, James 'Boring' Bond, Disney/Marvel TV series etc so I think we're getting the tail end of a bunch of movies that wouldn't be made today
Movies where woke/intersectional/whatever is decided before an actual storyline.
The last three marvel movies made less than the latest Spiderman movie, West Side Story boomed, the 355 bombed
Theres also been a number of well received movies and tv series that are now showing the studio execs (and shareholders) that listening to twitter and shitting on fans is a sure way to lose money
So I'm picking that the quality of movies will slowly, but surely, pick up…hopefully
I still disagree on the woke thing – I think it's more that the type of movies became so expensive their funders became risk-averse, going for simple stories if there were other perceived differences from previous moneymakers.
GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.
'GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.'
Any other differences between the two movies you could think of?
Ok then what about Terminator: Dumb Fate where they kill of John Connor (thus making 1 and 2 pointless), ignore the third movie and have women replace the mens roles and don't try to tell me it wasn't deliberate:
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/07/tim-miller-terminator-dark-fate-scares-internet-trolls-1202156922/
and it bombed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator:_Dark_Fate
Woke/Intersectional/whatever you call it is bad for movies.
What other examples do you want,?
Charlies Angels: https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/elizabeth-banks-faces-backlash-charlies-angels-interview/
In an interview last week, she stated that “if this movie doesn’t make money it reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don’t go see women do action movies,”
Bombed
Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/birds-of-prey-harley-quinn-less-male-gaze-margot-robbie-1202148124/
“Yeah, it’s definitely less male gaze–y,” Robbie added.
also less box office-y and…bombed
Captain Marvel 2019
Not a bomb thanks to being in between Infinity War and End Game but how well was it received, well thanks to Brie Larson and her views the sequel is, at this time anyway, going to be The Marvels
You may not see it but its there, its movies designed to be popular with Twitter and its not working, people are beginning to see and beginning to vote with their wallets
Thank goodness
many of those films I haven't seen.
But the point is that I'm not sure GB:afterlife wouldn't have been dumbed down a bit if it cost twice as much to make.
Trust me on this and don't watch them, they're not even worth pirating because you won't get your time back
I think its also a case of the cheaper the budget the less likely you'll get studio interference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(2019_film)
As a prime example
Shame the joker was a bunch of crap. Pretty much every decent scene or even shot was
ripped off from"an homage to" some other movie.But the best story I heard about cheapness avoiding studio interference was Robert Altman's MAS*H, making a an anti-Vietnam "Korean War" movie in the early 1970s. Turn it in on time and under budget, get away with minimal notes, lol
I liked the scene where he shot Robert De Niro…or did he
It looked very familiar from somewhere
Quite similar to Frank Millers The Dark Knight Returns I thought
Never read it – closest I got was the Killing Joke.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I've seen that talk show shooting thing on film before. Want to say Network, but that scene had a different vibe. Damned sure I've seen it somewhere, though.
But it's largely a pastiche of sequences from other movies – Taxi Driver (you talking to me), The Brave One (subway scene), Fight Club (the "can I be trusted" unreliable memory gambit), even a quick shot from (I think) Saving Private Ryan (but the composition was similar to Shane, too – low defenceless on left, high and armed on right, quiet pause, shot). It's well done, but none of it is particularly new.
Although the social awkwardness of the little guy having to ask Fleck to open the door right after Fleck killed his friend was pretty good.
You should read it as its very good however I will say the artwork isn't quite to my taste
Prob should be called cliche kai and its less cringworthy if its treated as though it is parody in my view pr still would agree it has some redeeming features and does provide a few laughs .Cant imagine how someone could stand to watch it on tv with ads i sure couldnt .
Ads would certainly kill it
“An Otorohanga father who sparked a wide-scale search after he went missing with his three young children near Marokopa failed to show up to his first court appearance today and a warrant has been issued for his arrest.
Thomas Phillips, 34, was charged with wasteful deployment of police resources following the 17-day search in September last year. Phillips, and his three young children, Jayda Jin, 8, Maverick Callum-Phillips, 6, and Ember Phillips, 5, went missing on September 11.
After an extensive search and rescue effort by a number of emergency services, the local community and iwi, Phillips and his children turned up at his parents’ home on September 28. They had been staying in a tent in dense bush, his family said.
…
His lawyer, Garth O’Brien, appeared via audio visual link informing the judge that he hadn’t heard from his client since first informing him of the court date, the Herald understands.
He also asked to excuse himself from representing Phillips. A warrant was issued for Phillips’ arrest.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/marokopa-mystery-father-tom-phillips-charged-with-wasting-police-resources-fails-to-show-at-court/AQEB7QJQDRLFRHJXTQ2UJC6GIM/
… … … …
This is now getting pretty odd. Forgetfulness, or avoidance? One wonders if Mr Phillips might be in need of psychiatric or psychological help.
Those poor kids…
in need of psychiatric or psychological help
I suspected that after his first escapade. So he's gone bush again, looks like. Wonder how stocked-up he's made his hidey hole. Presuming he's on his own this time, wonder if he's got a gun – maybe wearing a MAGA hat…
“Northland police are continuing to investigate a threat against Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern delivered to letterboxes around Kerikeri. The handwritten flier was delivered to an unknown number of homes, including in the area around Waipapa Rd, last month.
The message, which managed to spell the Prime Minister’s name wrong, started with: ”Very soon a group of us are going to eradicate Jacinda Adern (sic) from this Earth plain for good”.
It went on to claim Ardern was killing people and removing their means to live a fair and happy life. It was the second such message delivered in the Waipapa Rd area.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-investigating-threat-against-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-delivered-to-kerikeri-homes/5P4GZIN3GGVF25FYIH3MCHAXPQ/
… … … … …
Suspect they meant Earth plane. A hand-written flyer? Most likely an ill-educated nutter. But still, that’s a bit of a worry. Hope the police find this character soonish.
Hillbillies in the Bay of Islands?? Has Kerikeri really drifted that far down-market?
🤔
having seen the letter on stuff-stuffall(herald) it would appear to be written by somebody with good handwriting skills, used to writing out notices for others to easily read (and obey?). not an illeducated nutter ,but a well educated nutter . not a hillbilly (have you seen hillbillys signs and notices?. a handwriting expert would immediatley say, a well educated white person, educated before the age of spell-check , and text-mispelling, used to writing out notices in large print for others to read,,from around kerikeri, hmm heres a wild stab in the brai, a middle aged white sth african male who works in,or manages an orchard.??? or it could be a disaffected ????
This earth plain?
when english might be your second language?
Can't spell meets new-age claptrap, I reckon.
American Shane Chafin got to Kawakawa to demonstrate his particular brand of stupid in his heckling of Jacinda Ardern and there are rabid anti-vaxx pockets and flourishing ignorance through Northland.
Kerikeri is no exception,.
This is very disturbing, and sadly not new. There have been numerous threats of this nature towards the PM and her family. (And not only Jacinda – you might recall the court case recently of a man found guilty of threatening Simon Bridges and his family).
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous (and that includes The Standard). Crazy conspiracy theories lead to violence: if you believe the PM is a "dictator" then dictators must be overthrown, right? So for god's sake – for all our sakes – turn it down.
The NZ Herald comments are behind the paywall, so here is a selection for you all. These are all verbatim comments, and it shows how bad things have become …
Looks to me like the Government spin department opening their account for the year.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for her, concerned for her?
What a nonsense. The alarmist spin is back in overdrive.
(etc)
Fortunately, they are in the minority, but remember – these are the ones that got published. Imagine the ones that didn't.
Bear in mind the bullying, harassment, intimidation, threats of violence, the lies and all round nastiness is coming from the minority side of the debate. The majority have shown remarkable patience and control, but we have a right – even a duty – to call the minority out on their transgressions and crackpot theories.
Care to give us a profile of the offender? I would but I'd probably be banned. You bet it's a worry. So many acts of violence can come out of left field.
I'd rather leave that to the police because I have no idea. Not enough information for me to make an educated guess. The fuzz may know more from their enquiries.
Possibly someone with an alternative New Age outlook from the misuse of "earth plain" for earthly plane, but who knows – that could just be a ruse? It could be anyone – smart or stupid – at this point.
Random use of capitalization suggests a flakey new-ager. Not younger generation – they all seem allergic to capital letters. But new-agers aren't into violence so someone more fringe than that I reckon.
'' She is killing our people.'' '' Our means to live'' Business owner? A Maori?
They can spell 'Eradicate''. They know what that word means, but they cannot spell ''Plane'' in the right context?
The a in ''happy'' is suss.
The h is suss.
Seems to me an attempt to disguise handwriting. What the writer doesn't know is that can never be done 100% successfully.
Felt pen and I assume thick paper, may hint at craft use, or a business back room?
If the ivermectin doesn't work, the FLCCC, 'Murica's front line covid-19 critical care alliance quacks, have a few suggestions.
https://twitter.com/twinkbride/status/1480205837721391112
Tuesday the 11th
“Where the Omicron surge has begun, the priority should be to avoid and reduce harm among the vulnerable, and minimise disruption to health systems and essential services,” Kluge [ WHO Regional Director for Europe] said. “This means prioritising vulnerable people for primary course and booster doses, advising them to avoid closed, crowded spaces, and offering the possibility to work remotely wherever possible until the infection surge passes.”
Two hours ago
the WHO Technical Advisory Group on Covid-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-Co-VAC) said: "A vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable."
So…one booster good, two booster bad? Booster no good? Primary injection good, booster no good? Arse? Elbow? Why is the NZ government about to set 5 year olds and above off on an unsustainable trajectory of injections that were developed for a virus "as was" in 2019 and about which Pfizer says – that two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant?
I guess it must be for the greater good. Or something or other.
Pfizer announced about 24 hours ago they will have a vaccine for the Omicron variant available by March of this year.
It probably means the other Covid vaccine producers will have one for Omicron available around the same time.
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake. I believe the claim is that they will have developed an Omicron specific vaccine by March, not that it'll be available by March.
Anyway. Why is NZ about to embark on this programme that will inject, basically, a defunct medicine into children over 5 years old?
Putting all other considerations aside for the moment, wouldn't a more sensible route on any "one size fits all vaccine" strategy, be to hold off injecting children who face almost no risk from Covid until a vaccine geared to offer protection to Omicron was actually available?
If not, why not?
Hope is a powerful thing. I sought out my Pfizer booster dose on 4 Jan. 2022, in the hope (and expectation) of being well (not perfectly; well) protected against Omicron when that variant spreads through Kiwis in the next few months.
To all who would rather roll the dice and put their faith in an under-educated or COVID-naive immune system, best of luck – a large proportion of you will be fine, just not as large as the proportion of those who opted for a Pfizer booster.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/450874/covid-19-data-visualisations-nz-in-numbers [Vaccination status of total cases & hospitalisations in Delta outbreak]
That sounds reasonable to me. I assumed the booster would be an up-graded version, tailored to the incoming iteration of the virus. There is, I suppose, room to explore the reason for using the "base" vaccine again, but I've not read that explanation – can anyone provide it? Thanks.
Song for dennis since he gave us an interesting conversation the other night
Or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_LDeUEiWY
thanks, I remember when that album arrived in '72, folks around me playing it
paradoxical song eh? does seem to evoke depths of human nature & mass psychology
Yeah gets to me ,mans arrogance always to the fore ,you could feel the affrontery when you brought up that genesis stuff the other night ,you could have mentioned the condemning of women to an eternity of pain in childbirth also another very strange construct .