yup, she’s a bubble all night. (just keep shuttin’ out those first home buyers and await the inevitable increase in liabilities; RNZ-landlords trying to get tenants to pay the water and rates bills in addition to rent)
Keep pulling that bow string back, bruv. You’ve still got a fair way to go before you can link DS with EM. Nice try though.
Show the poll that shows if UK Labour had ditched pm Brown before the last election, their losses would have reduced to the point of forming a legitimate coalition with the lib dems.
Yip, elections are popularity contests these days…is there much of a difference between Labour UK & Labour NZ policies?
edit – just read Karol’s comment below…now my question is, if NZ Labour brought in more policies like UK Labour, would Shearer be popular in the polls?
Miliband does have a reasonable amount of parliamentary experience: been an MP since 2005, has been a cabinet minister, was secretary of state for energy and climate change, has experience in student politics, has been an political speech writer and taken a lead in drafting Labour Party policy, is articulate and is very good at delivering speeches. He also has explicitly articulated his political position: he has stated he is a socialist, is for civil liberties, wants to scrap uni tuition fees and implement a graduate tax, is for an FTT, is against welfare cuts.
He still panders to neoliberalism, but I’d position him to the left of Shearer.
karol – both Millibands were raised by seriously socialist parents. IIRC his dad was a published marxist.
He still panders to neoliberalism
Not quite; I would suggest that he panders to capitalists. That is slightly different, and also necessary, given the economic structure the world runs on today.
Interesting that you consider Milliband “indifferent” yet I have a far better idea who he is and what he stands for than I do Shearer.
And that’s despite Milliband living on the other side of the planet and me having only a passing interest in anything he says.
Still, you can prove us all misguided any time you like by publishing the glowing poll results showing that Shearer has mumbled Labour ahead of National here too.
If not, you’re really only highlighting his failure to do so.
Ed Milliband speaking at his old comprehensive, during the UK Labour leadership challenge.
Listen to how he speaks off the cuff.
“My parents taught me something very very simple. Which is a faith really. If you see an injustice in your society you shouldn’t just walk by on the other side, you shouldn’t just get angry, you should do something about it.”
Oooh lads, your ignorance about Ed Miliband’s status in the UK is kinda cute.. He was initially regarded as being hopeless and is often ridiculed as being as being a Mr Bean like character. Like Shearer, he is starting to grow on the voters there. He is also, like Shearer, facing a whispering campaign to unseat him. Like it or not, its an apt comparison.
And, if you are going to claim reasonable knowledge of him and his works, felix, you should at least know how his name is spelled.
Actually, a quick google suggests TRP might be on to something.
Just from the line snapshots in google:
Sep 29, 2012 â NEARLY half of Labour voters think that Ed Miliband is too WEAK to be Prime Minister, a poll has revealed.
Jun 23, 2012 â Mr Miliband is used to being told that he is well placed to attract … Ed Miliband got some bad news: A private poll suggested his party’s lead …
Voters cannot see Ed Miliband in power http://www.newstatesman.com/node/40683/Sep 14, 2011 â The Times has released its annual pre-conference poll (ÂŁ), and it shows that Ed Miliband is still failing to command the support of his party.
with a year and a half advantage in time – sarc>so, no knives out before 2014, eh? /sarc>
Oh, and I’m not sure there was a Cunliffe grandstanding at Ed’s party conference address, refusing to say whether he’d challenge for the leadership in Feb.
Oh, and Iâm not sure there was a Cunliffe grandstanding at Edâs party conference address, refusing to say whether heâd challenge for the leadership in Feb.
Well, the UK Labour caucus had the sense to put their leadership out to a democratic vote by all members and all affiliates.
12 points, felix, put your glasses on. Itâs an apt comparison for the reasons Iâve given above. Feel free to point out the social democratic party leader anywhere in the world more like Shearer than Miliband.
And seeing as you appear to have forgotten what I wrote, here it is again:
âIndifferent Labour leader who nobody much likes in poll shock:â
My intention was to make people immediately think of Shearer, when the article was actually about Miliband. It’s a jokey juxtaposition of the two leaders, both of whom suffer from a lack of public enthusiasm. It’s a very common form of comedic one liner. Oddly enough, I’m sure you’ve cracked a few jokes along similar lines yourself in the past, so I’m surprised you’ve forgotten how it works.
The others get it, felix*. You used to be pretty funny yourself, back in the day. Why so sad?
*edit: Ok, you and the alien (below) don’t get it. Can I recommend the Guardian’s Fiver to you both? You’ll soon pick up how this comedic reversal stuff works.
You’re no dummy, so it must be my cunning goodness, Al1en! At the heart of it I was comparing Miliband and Shearer and the two Labour Parties. The leaders both got their jobs despite apparently better candidates being available and neither enjoys uncritical support. Both have a long way to go to convince voters to trust them, but UK Labour has found a way to turn disenchantment with the coalition government into positive support for them. NZ Labour have a couple of years to do the same, but the point is, it can be done.
Oh I get how it works. You say the same sort of stuff all the time and usually try to argue it, then every now and then instead of arguing it you say “I was joking, I actually meant the opposite, not just of what I said just now but of what I say all the time.”
Fuck me, you’re really losing it felix! I’m not going to put smiley’s on every mildly wry comment I occasionally make just because you have a cobb on. Cheer up, for fucks sake!
“And seeing as you appear to have forgotten what I wrote, here it is again:
âIndifferent Labour leader who nobody much likes in poll shock:â”
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
Is it Ed is perceived indifferently by some yet get’s good poll numbers, DS is perceived indifferently by many Labour members and voters, so it’s no surprise he’s continually gets the shit numbers his nothingness deserves?
I don’t get it.
And yet on the old BBC polltracker, despite alleged misgivings, on the numbers, UK Labour have been able to form a government for the past couple of years.
So the poll about dumping Brown pre election equating to reduced parliamentary losses.
Not applicable here?
Would dumping the extremely unpopular Shearer not bounce the polls?
Argue otherwise.
We should aim for indifferent spokespersons, backbench MPs and NZ Council members too.
Hey, why not go the full hog and insist that our canvassers/activists be indifferent and relatively unlikeable. That should do it. We are half way there. All we need now is for National to hang out the white flag, roll over and hand us the keys to the Beehive.
A) One so sure of the rightness of his convictions – and thus that all non-Catholics are bound for Hell* – that he mobilises all the tools available to any wealthy organisation in the 21st Century to assault the great unwashed with his version of the truth (including an all-out assault on the mistaken beliefs of those other misguided People of the Book presently lopping the limbs off non-believers in various parts of the world), or
B) A Pope who declares ex-cathedra that the whole thing is really just a crock of merda, or
C) A Pope who converts Roman Catholicism into its true role as an entertainment business, as “The Church Ltd.” and moves the Vatican to Hollywood, or
D) A Pope who completes his entire Papacy without a single scandal,
E) a lady Pope who manages not to get pregnant.
*Pope Boniface VIII: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
Yup! (according to RNZ report; he just could not reconcile all this kiddy-fiddlin’ and there is a lot more to come out of the woodwork in this pornocratic age)
Prime TV has taken on 60 Minutes. Last night they did a great (?) Public Relations job for Mr Key and Sir Peter Jackson. The happily used the 3,000 employed and the saving of the Hobbits thanks to clever, brave action by Key and Jackson, leading to billions (!) of dollars for needy NZ.
Especially telling given the current wait for the emails.
They still categorise that program as “current affairs”, I just wonder “whose” “current affairs”?
“The Nation” on TV 3 has also struck me as having a “kind inclination” towards presenting the government in good light (remember the live cast from the National Party Conference and lengthy interviews with Ministers and co-hosted with selected media personalities).
This all calls for a solid return to fair, balanced public broadcasting, so turn TVNZ into something like the ABC in Australia. As for advertising “paying” for private or semi private broadcasting, in reality consumers pay for the broadcasting through buying the products advertised.
Only pay per view or so is acceptable, competitive “private” broadcasting.
Good skills, i love the Maori electorate seats, in my view an actual physical expression of Tinorangatiratanga within the Parliament,
Maori who deserve a central and pivotal role in the central decision making process are given that with the Maori electorates where they can at once vote for a candidate from within the rohe and if they so choose Party vote for who they see as being the major party of Government,
Speaking from Wellington i believe the Maori Party burned a lot of young people when it went into coalition with the National Government,
i was highly impressed having young Maori knocking on my door at the 2008 election seeking my vote for the party,(as i explained then i had to decline as Tariana’s motivation for foriming that party in the first place, no matter how justified She was in doing so, precluded the Maori Party from supporting a Labour lead Government),
It only took 18 months here for the Maori Party flags to all but disappear and the window stickers to be hastily scraped from the back windscreens of the waka,
2011 brought no canvassers for the Maori Party to the door round here and i can only assess the damage done to all those young Maori that once so proudly trod those miles supporting ‘their’ party against my own experience of having trod similar miles on behalf of the Labour Party which helped elect Sir(spit)Roger Douglas into a Government, which provided me a serious imperative to view myself as a fool for having been fooled by those people,
Good luck with inspiring your young voters we need them involved, not only as voters but as activists who have a voice in the political process…
It makes you wonder about the suggestion that Tamihere was going to get West Auckland Whanau to go over to the European roll. This would weaken the case for another seat so that he could try and take Bennett on. He would be better off going up against Pita Sharples.
Using Treasury figures Nick Smith is claiming that Labour’s KiwiBuild will not bring down the cost of housing in Auckland,(RadioNZ National news),
I have yet to see this Treasury report but it’s obvious from what Nick Smith has been saying that the Treasury has started from the point of a ‘false’ initial premise,(that the entire ‘build’ is a one off 10,000 homes), and then extrapolated their conclusions upon that false premise, in other words created for it’s own purposes a ‘strawman’ argument with which to attempt to discredit Labour’s ‘KiwBuild’ program,
Treasury of course get everything right in their advice to Minister’s like getting right the assertion that the GST rise to 15% along with the associated shuffling of the tax burdon to the detriment of those reliant on the lower income brackets for their daily needs by the Slippery lead National Government would be ‘fiscally neutral’,
Such a getting of it’s advice right to Government blew a billion dollar annual hole in the Government’s revenue from taxation, not that Slippery and Co gave a big one about that as their only intent with such a ‘tax switch’ was to ensure the loyalty of the current National Party vote,
The new Minister of un-Housing NZ Nick Smith tho thrives on such ‘strawman arguments'(if the truth were known it’s possible that He dictated the contents of the Treasury report to those who wrote it),and the 2009 settlement of Nick’s defamation of a South Island building supply company settled by over 200 grand of your and my monies shows that Nick hasn’t yet realized that mostly what is ejected from His mouth turns out to be s**t…
Did anyone read the Richard Prosser column in investigate magazine, where he refers to all muslims as being from “wogistan”, and states that anyone looking even vaguely “muslim” shouldnt be allowed on western airlines.
“In his latest column he refers to certain people as coming from âWogistanâ and also declares that no young male who is a Muslim, looks like a Muslim or is from a Muslim country should be able to fly on a Western airline.”
That rules out Temuera Morrison and Cliff Curtis ever flying again đ
What does a Muslim look like anyway? I think Prosser means Arab. What a dick.
Looks like pretty clear grounds for a Race Relations complaint. I guess he is after the publicity.
If they are happy with “White Mother Fuckers” – since it was an opinion (of somebody that is generally popular on this forum) – then Prossers opinion (as messed up as it is) should be ok also.
Private emails and published magazine columns are completely the same thing! Using a naughty word and advocating institutional oppression are completely the same thing!
God, could white dudes get over what a meany-pants Hone Harawira is already?
Messers felix and QoT, I aint diving into this one except to put this to your good minds…. this is exactly where the left misses huge portions of the population. Either the left has the wrong end of the stick in defending one disparaging racist comment and supporting the other disparaging racist comment, or the left is totally useless in explaining what is wrong with the point james makes. It just leaves the population shaking its head and dismissing it. QoT’s explanation comes across as splitting hairs to support personal preferences in the political realm.
This is what they see. I mean, what is going on when the two “sides”, left and right, just cannot understand each others points. Especially on issues as basic as this. It just comes across as two sets of rules for two different groups to the rightish types…
Yeah – Hone isnt a rasist – he is taken out of context. :Tui:
Its people like you – and the fact that labour will die in the ditch with Mana / NZ First if you needed that are driving your voters away in droves.
So dont worry about poor James – Felix Viper, worry about your own party who are sinking and will continue to do so. After all you are judged by the company you keep.
If you ever needed an example of why a Labour-Green-NZFirst coalition will never work you only have to look at the stupidity and racist bigotry contained in Richard Prosser’s (or is that Tosser’s) article. And fancy writing for Investigate magazine!
If you ever needed an example of why a Labour-Green-NZFirst coalition will never work …
This, exactly this.
Nobody on the (broad) left has to pander to the likes of Prosser. A Labour/Green majority is achievable. Now we just need Labour to say they really want one. And mean it.
Completely agree micky and gobsmacked. It scares me everytime I see someone here talk about a threeway coalition that included NZF as if it’s a good thing. And yeah, Labour really need to get their shit together on who their allies are.
Based on this article, will Shearer have the balls to ask Winston that he either dumps Prosser or Labour will not go into coaliation win NZF?, or does getting into power trump everything else?
Excellent, Winston has just about passed His used by date, Brendon Who has been kneecapped and bundled off to Siberia along with His leadership aspirations,
Prosser, the loose cannon in this little game of ‘Texas holdem’ has not only jumped off of the 17th floor in an act of political suicide far grander in scale than that of Brendon Who, Prosser has also managed to introduce the possibility that NZFirst wont feature in the next Parliament,
Bravo Richard Prosser lets have you on the TV news for a week raving about muslims and ‘Wogistan’ a guaranteed provocation that should have the left arm of NZFirst walking away in droves…
Winston was just on RadioNZ National distancing Himself from Richard Prosser’s comments, saying that there are zillions of law abiding Muslims and he knows a few personally as they are Party members,
Richard Prosser’s political future in NZFirst=Zero, NZFirst’s chances of returning to the Parliament in 2014= Fading fast…
Yet again, Mike W agrees with almost everything that Hooton says and so yet again the seemingly
only leftwing voice comes from the bloody presenter. (Hint Mike: It’s not Kathryn’s job to call Mathew out on his shit, it’s yours)
Lowlights: When asked why NZ doesn’t have enough sailors to operate its vessels, Hooton bizarrely goes into a rant about how the Green party are hypocrites because they aren’t pushing for a strong military given their position on climate change. (Hooton apparently thinks that consequences of climate change for NZ will be millions of Indonesians trying to invade us.)
After this Kathryn, once more, called him on his shit of not answering the question.
Then….
Right at the end Hooton, like a love-sick puppy, can’t sing enough praise for David Shearer, ‘oh David’s so savvy, oh David’s fought off three leadership challenges, oh David oh David….etc’
I used to think the problem with the show was hooton but it’s not, it’s Williams.
He’s too bloated (in all senses of the word) to do the job properly. Too close to the beltway. He’s spent too many years on the good paddocks, getting fat on the very system he should be railing against. I hear him speak and I feel, as he nods along with Hooters, that his mind is straying to the pasta and beer he’s going to have for lunch, or the afternoon nap in a comfy chair.
Please step down Mike. Please let someone with vitality and enthusiasm do the job properly.
The problem is the Nine to Noon producers. Maybe they need a few emails of alternative suggestions and encouragement to change, or at least trial some different people. Maybe making complaints would help.
Yeah I understood that it was a 10 vote abstention as well. In otehr words, 70% of caucus decided that there was no need to give a voice to the members and affiliates.
Don’t just blame the 70%, CV! The other 30% of caucus also decided that there was no need to give a voice to the members and affiliates and bottled it by abstaining.
And, encouragingly, 100% of caucus endorsed the democratic process the members and affiliates wanted and voted in at conference.
Even if this report was true, and I seriously doubt it, so what? The minority didn’t have the courage of their convictions., Shearer is endorsed and we move on …
The next government will be a Shearer led Labour /Green coalition.and Shearer will prove to be an excellent Labour PM. I just wish some of you so called Labour Supporters would just start to fully support the LP, party . I think a lot of you are just Tories in drag if you are not well join the Nat’s and moan and groan to those Po faced creeps or better still join NZ 1st and join the Muslim bashers At least they give the Jews and Asians a break. from their Racist utterances .
Ha, it’s “Muslim” now. I noticed earlier in the day though that it was “Moslem” except for the name of the NZ Muslim Association. So who do you reckon the numpty is, Kurt Bayer or Matthew Theunissen?
Labour leader David Shearer said the remarks were ”completely inappropriate for this Parliament”.
“It’s not something that came off the top of his head as a mistake, it was calculated. I think MPs… should act responsibly. And in this case I think it could lead to inciting violence.”
Other nations – particularly in the Middle East – will look on New Zealand “with some disdain”, Shearer said.
His instincts. are ‘OMG what will people think’ rather than the principle. And he includes a weird little aside about how he thinks Muslims might riot if he’d said it in the middle east. At least he didn’t call it wogistan I guess.
No, his instincts were to say Prosser’s comments were offensive and completely inappropriate for Parliament.
THEN to look into the further problems with them, and the impact they could have locally and internationally. And that the comments were premeditated, not just a slip of the tongue.
incorrect for two reasons: firstly, Shearer doesn’t do “ladsy” very well. Using the patois of the gutter wouldn’t be convincing from him – it would be patronising. And referring to “my government” at this stage would be fodder for key and yourself (seriously – if he’d said what you just typed, are you seriously saying you wouldn’t call him something like “try-hard and deluded”?).
So Shearer needed to go to the second characteristic of leadership: show decorum and geopolitical competence. Which he did.
Hone’s line was best, Peters did the minimising self-serving statement, and key was pretty noncommittal until fed the angle by the journalists.
Was he incorrect to start blathering about how he reckons Muslims might have reacted (hint Violent muslims)? Yes.
the point isn’t that what he said might hurt us internationally, the point is he’s a bigoted halfwit. How hard is it to say:
âItâs outrageous and he wonât be a minister in any government I leadâ ?
If he needs to follow up on that go with how he wouldn’t have future in the party if he was a Labour MP but that’s a matter for Winston.
Or talk about how this is the sort of nonsense we last heard when Bush was in power, and the National party wanted to join in on the stupid war in Iraq, where John Key said we were missing in action.
My fault, should’ve been clearer. I just meant all he needs to do is strongly disagree and NOT waffle on about how you shouldn’t piss muslims off ‘cos they get a bit stroppy, or anything else.
Trouble is the more he does this sort of thing, the more I think he’s just saying what he really thinks.
And that’s way worse than what I was giving him credit for.
Shearer did strongly disagree with Prosser’s comments.
I disagree with your interpretation of Shearer’s comments relating to civil stability in the Middle East. I think they were valid, especially given his extensive experience in the area. But feel free to correct him. I suggest repeating Prosser’s statements in downtown Cairo. Let us know how you get on.
“I suggest repeating Prosserâs statements in downtown Cairo. Let us know how you get on.”
Ah, so you mean if you just take Shearer’s literal words, squnting away all context and subtext, you could say he was factually accurate in that you shouldn’t actually go to the middle east and be all anti-muslim.
Does that make it a smart thing to say? I suppose it depends what message you’re trying to send.
A bit like Hone’s ‘white motherfuckers have been raping our land for centuries.’ Factually accurate if you allow a little poetic license, but potentially highly offensive, mainly to those with no grasp of basic set theory.
Many thought at the time that it was politically naive of him to say such things, but again, it depends who the message is for. Who do you think Shearer’s message about muslims being prone to violence was for?
“Many thought at the time that it was politically naive of him to say such things, but again, it depends who the message is for. Who do you think Shearerâs message about muslims being prone to violence was for?”
That wasn’t the message I detected. So I guess is wasn’t for people who generally try to see if there’s any realistic reason for outrage before displaying it.
Maybe Shearer was simply pointing out that having a racist MP won’t make us friends in the Middle East, and might make us a few enemies? But once again Shearer can’t mention an issue without it apparently being an intentional dogwhistle.
Option B is that people are going well out of their way to detect cause for offense.
It’s all very well saying Shearer will led a Labour/ Green coalition but he’s not exactly shining when it comes to actually having some talent on the front benches – still the same old, same old. Even Key has managed to gain the march on him when it comes to bold moves (and that’s saying something). The vindictive way he has treated Cunliffe is rediculous. When Shearer starts pulling the party together, we will start winning!
Can someone who really knows what the Labour Constitution changes were please explain one thing for me.
Did Shearer have to get 60% of the caucus to vote for him to keep his position without a party-wide vote or did 40% have to vote against him to force a vote?
In the first case an abstention would be just the same as a no vote wouldn’t it?
In the second case it wouldn’t but there would surely have to be another candidate who stood against him.
Er, Shearer did get 100% support, if this lie is true. 100% support from those with the courage to vote. The interesting thing in this beat up is how low opposition to Shearer now is. Ok, it’s not true, but if its down to just ten, Shearer’s here for the long run.
Assuming you’ve replied to the wrong comment there, but anyhoo…
“for all the reasons I’ve given above” would seem to me to include the bit about how Ed is starting to grow on voters, and how the polls are showing it.
No?
edit: This was a response to a comment from TRP which appears to be missing.
[lprent: He probably deleted it. It can be done in the editing window. ]
I replied in the wrong place, felix, and deleted it. It’s now a bit further down the page.
And in answer to your question, a qualified yes. Both leaders are starting to gain some small traction in the preferred PM polls, but both have a long way to go. In terms of the UK poll support for Labour, it really has a lot to do with voter disgust with both the other parties, rather than anything Miliband is doing. But then, its probably easier to gain support in a 3 way, FPP contest where the other 2 parties form the current Government than it is in a 7 way MMP contest. In the UK situation, Labour is the default depository of the anti-coalition vote, though UKIP are also hurting the Tories by taking the important taxi driver, white van man and Little Englander vote.
A pondering… one tane huna and meself just had another ding dong over when someone becomes a hater rather than a person with simply a different view.
When does someone become a hater? You know, like a hater of homosexuals. A hater of old white men. A hater of the yellow peril. A hater of pakeha. When? Because as far as I can see there remain so many issues where there is blanket hypocrisy e.g. supporting of separate institutions… is this bigotry of a form? Or is it not? Or another example, supporting of inclusive institutions … is it this that is a form of prejudice? Or does it depend on what side of the political specturm your view apparently stems from according to political fashion of the day?
When does racism exist? When does ageism exist? When does any form of bigotry exist? It is such a mish-mash of varying rules and determinants that it renders so many of these accusations and labels empty and useless. There is no consistency. Or is there? Where is it? Who has it?
Peters’ response ain’t far from what Shearer said really. All that stuff about how the muslims would turn violent if you said that in the middle east etc, that’s pretty much just another way of saying there’s an element of truth to it.
I disagree. Peters was saying that there was an element of truth that muslim males pose a significant risk to air transport (when apparently Boeing batteries are more dangerous). Basically the only non-Muslim terrorist he knew of was McVeigh.
Shearer was simply pointing out that sometimes cartoons can clock off riots in the MidEast.
But Shearer should know that cartoons that insult the prophet have sparked riots. This is not like that. All he did was reinforce that those crazy Muslims riot at the drop of a hat over there in wogistan.
But this perfectly illustrates Shearer’s problem. He’s hopeless at politics.
I am quite certain that David Shearer the person – the guy who has worked in all those places, alongside so many people of different faiths, ethnicities etc – would be genuinely offended by Prosser’s comments. He’s thinking “What a racist sh*t”.
But Shearer the politician thinks he has to second-guess and run it by whoever the handlers are and generally dilute and diminish his own real response. He condemns, but … as always, with qualifiers. Every time he speaks, he qualifies.
According to NRT he couldn’t even say that he wouldn’t have Prosser in his team. But I bet he wouldn’t have Prosser in his team … he’s just been brainwashed into thinking he mustn’t say so. Or say anything that would interfere with the Sleepwalk Strategy.
FFS David, stop this. You lose both ways. The liberals and left only think less of you, the so-called centre (conservatives?) just think you’re a wimp.
Projection.
Just because you or I think in obscenities it doesn’t mean Shearer does.
And did KEY say Prosser couldn’t be in HIS government? If Shearer had said it he would be arrogant and delusional. He doesn’t so he gets flak. Key doesn’t, not a whisper. Shearer’s already losing both ways, right here.
Shearer can’t determine what Key says. Or what the media say about what Key says. But (and this really, really isn’t hard …) –
Shearer can determine what HE says. Jessica Mutch asked him a question. It wasn’t a fair question, it was a “Gotcha” if you like, but if Shearer can only cope with what’s fair, he should quit politics right now.
Do you seriously have any difficulty in deciding on the spot how to answer a question about standing Prosser down? Of course you don’t. Nor do I. Nor would anybody with an ounce of political smarts.
He is lost.
[lprent: I am getting concerned about your head banging. Is there anything we can do to help? đ Personally at present I find that standing directly in front of te aircond….]
Who in the blogosphere has criticised key for not ruling prosser out of government, was my point. But it seems to be a drumbeat against the guy the drum-circle seem to think will never be IN government, anyway.
Mutch with a gotcha? What are you referring to? The only searches I’ve found that quote Shearer are print – got a link? Or am I to wait for 6pm?
Which still means issuing statements about who he’d govern with is arrogant to the point of delusion. Or it’s a serious omission by a probable future prime minister. Damned both ways.
He doesn’t have to issue statements. He simply has to respond to questions. Exactly what he’ll be required to do in the election campaign, without benefit of minders 24/7.
For the Twitter reaction, here’s a good starting point:
The relevance here is that this is part of a consistent pattern. Shearer is not faced with a tough challenge, condemning Prosser. But he can only deal with the prepared line (Stage 1), not follow-ups (Stage 2). That tells us a lot about both his political instincts, and his underlying principles. Both are found wanting, frequently.
There’s no “drum beat” from many of those (like Russell Brown) who were annoyed on Twitter. The idea that Shearer’s critics are only a Standard few is a delusion.
Yeah, on current polling it probably would be arrogant.
But that’s where he should be now: Being taken seriously as a contender for the top job, articulating an alternate vision for the country, describing the kind of govt he’ll lead.
@gobsmacked: I’m sure it’s just a one-off stumble, he won’t be like this all the time, he’s stared down warlords, his media training will kick in any day now, he’s only like this when there are cameras or people around etc etc.
You could point out how my characterisation is completely inconsistent with the measured and rational tone with which issues are logically discussed whenever Shearer’s name is mentioned. Good luck with that.
Yes, it’s getting quite difficult to criticise anything Shearer (or Labour) says without inviting quite irrational and emotional responses from certain commenters here.
Oh I think there’s been plenty of decent criticism. You’re bound to get a bit of mad barking when all the decent criticism goes so unheeded for so long though.
Cannot see anything wrong with the Shearer comment myself, if such a story became a feature of news in many of the Arab Muslim countries there is a likelihood of demonstrations being provoked…
I thought you wound up that little ding dong rather well!
Seems like the ground is always shifting as to what’s ‘a different opinion ‘ and what’s ‘enter derogatory name here’. I get fed up with the race to label someone and box them into a place where they have no choice but to hold their ground. What do you (as in anybody) want – to “win the contest” ? Have a frank exchange of views? Learn something? Bring someone round to your point of view? If you want to alter someone’s perception, giving them no option but to defend themselves at all costs results in a ‘not achieved.’
It’s interesting how one’s own views get challenged in unexpected ways. A couple of years ago, I was in a large workplace where I was one of the 5% minority by ethnicity and gender. That place fractured in ways I never expected, much of it was destructive, cut-throat and detrimental to the people it was meant to serve. It was very ugly and a timely warning that greed, ambition and egotism reside everywhere. And that for me is the crux of the matter – the best ideals can be subverted by ugliness.
I like authenticity. Where the walk matches the talk.
I’m very fond of the word ‘and’. Like, I think there’s room in the Labour Party for Louisa Wall AND John Tamihere. Personally, neither is my cup of tea, but both voices need to be heard. Room in the Green Party for Russel Norman AND David Cunliffe – yeah, I know, in my dreams.
Indeed, thanks for the feedback. You are especially right about the race to pigeonhole someone and the effect, often cumulative, that that has on healthy debate and inclusiveness – it does the opposite, as it did. For no gain.
This entire issue around pigeonholing and labelling and hypocrisy is on the watch list …..
Been trying to find an online copy of Tom Scott’s cartoon of Steven Joyce sicking a turtle onto Novopay in Sat 9 Feb DomPost. Stuff have conveniently not shown it, nor is it on their Tom Scott page. It’s sad/funny and spot on. Can anyone supply a link please?
Rob Oram, one of my favorites when commenting on either business or economics got around to being really circumspect when discussing the Mainzeal collapse on His regular RadioNZ National nine to noon spot today,
Rob got as far as pointing out that RichinaPacific the Richard Yan investment vehicle which was the majority shareholder in the collapsed Mainzeal had been de-listed from the New Zealand share-market
along with Mainzeal and RichinaPacific was then registered in the Bahamas,(a known tax haven),
Here’s one for Rob, and would tend to suggest RichinaPacific in the guise of a company registered in an extremely low tax jurisdiction being the depository for the monies from Mainzeal construction being a vehicle for claiming losses in a higher taxed jurisdiction,
December 2012, Revenue Minister, (the Hairdo from Ohariu), Peter Dunne publicly announces that He will be closing the loophole in the New Zealand tax laws which allows multi-national companies to declare losses in New Zealand and ship the profits off-shore to be declared in a low tax inviroment,
December 2012,Jenny Shiply along with a number of others quit the board of Mainzeal Construction…
If Johnny smart arse had worked in NZ for any great length of time before his need for greed completely took over and became Shylock he might have a small idea as to what NZ is loosing thru his tight wad policies
Crown Law spent $441,000 fighting Susan Couch suing corrections; as if the woman has not been through enough already nearly dying. RNZ put in an OIA request.
Yes and the awful affair has been going on since 2005!
It appears to have been settled only because the Corrections department got a new boss.
For a change I am on the side of Garth McVicar on this one.
Ok. Starting to get close. Two bugs, one (minor) enhancement, and a occasional repaint issue to go on the project. At 32 months, one product already released, a heart attack, and more than 4500 revisions in svn – I might be able to slow down from coding for a while and actually write some posts….
I’m sure that politicians will be looking forward to that. đ
But congrats … I never picked up on what the project was but I imagine it’s been all consuming. In my own technical space I’ve been pretty committed and full on myself this last year or so… finally got to a decent break myself this week.
But how the hell did you do all that and run this place too Lynn?
Mostly over the last two years by steadily dropping everything that sucked up too much time. The Labour work I dropped. Effectively stopped writing posts and cut back on comments here, but maintained tech and moderation. Driving to work rather than buses/walking (saves about an hour a day but drops the exercise way back). And above all, using an iPad in bed for blogging and reading (kicked reading speed up by about 50%)
Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
Many criticisms are being made of the Governmentâs Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. Itâs important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
Peter Dunne writes –Â The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that âthe first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.â When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECDâs second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commissionâs 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the governmentâs official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious:Â we live in a troubled ...
1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
…it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisition  NOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes – The High Court ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same?Oranga Tamarikiâs statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. âThere are less children ...
David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a âfirst strikeâ (that is, a âstage-1 convictionâ under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a âsecond strikeâ. In the five years prior to ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesnât normally happen in politics. Thatâs refreshing and will be extremely ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to âsaveâ the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
Open access notablesIce acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment:In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Governmentâs official website – arrived in Point of Orderâs email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
Mr Bombastic:Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére SosouMarket gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
Buzz from the Beehive  Melissa Lee â as may be discerned from the screenshot above â has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Governmentâs focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
Eric Crampton writes – The Reserve Bank of New Zealand desperately wants to find reasons to have workstreams in climate change. It makes little sense. They’ve run another stress test on the banks looking to see if they could find a prudential regulation case. They couldn’t. They ...
Rob MacCullough writes –Â Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
Looking at the headlines this morning it’s hard to feel anything other than pessimistic about the future of humanity.Note that I’m not speaking about the future of mankind, but the survival of our humanity. The values that we believe in seem to be ebbing away, by the day.Perhaps every generation ...
Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu â often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
What is it with the mining industry? Its not enough for them to pillage the earth - they apparently can't even be bothered getting resource consent to do so: The proponent behind a major mine near the Clutha River had already been undertaking activity in the area without a ...
Photo # 1 I am a huge fan of Singapore’s approach to housing, as described here two years ago by copying and pasting from The ConversationWhat Singapore has that Australia does not is a public housing developer, the Housing Development Board, which puts new dwellings on public and reclaimed land, ...
Buzz from the Beehive Reactions to news of the governmentâs readiness to make urgent changes to âthe resource management systemâ through a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) suggest a balanced approach is being taken. The Taxpayers’ Union says the proposed changes donât go far enough. Greenpeace says ...
I’m starting to wonder if Anna Burns-Francis might be the best political interviewer we’ve got. That might sound unlikely to you, it came as a bit of a surprise to me.Jack Tame can be excellent, but has some pretty average days. I like Rebecca Wright on Newshub, she asks good ...
Chris Trotter writes – Willie Jackson is said to be planning a âmedia summitâ to discuss âthe state of the media and how to protect Fourth Estate Journalismâ. Not only does the Editor of The Daily Blog, Martyn Bradbury, think this is a good idea, but he has also ...
Graeme Edgeler writes –Â This morning [April 21], the Wellington High Court is hearing a judicial review brought by Hon. Karen Chhour, the Minister for Children, against a decision of the Waitangi Tribunal. This is unusual, judicial reviews are much more likely to brought against ministers, rather than ...
Both of Parliament’s watchdogs have now ripped into the Government’s Fast-track Approvals Bill. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s political economy and beyond on the morning of Tuesday, April 23 are:The Lead: The Auditor General,John Ryan, has joined the ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Sarah SpengemanPeople wait to board an electric bus in Pune, India. (Image credit: courtesy of ITDP) Public transportation riders in Pune, India, love the city’s new electric buses so much they will actually skip an older diesel bus that ...
The infrastructure industry yesterday issued a “hurry up” message to the Government, telling it to get cracking on developing a pipeline of infrastructure projects.The hiatus around the change of Government has seen some major projects cancelled and others delayed, and there is uncertainty about what will happen with the new ...
Hi,Over the weekend I revisited a podcast I really adore, Dead Eyes. It’s about a guy who got fired from Band of Brothers over two decades ago because Tom Hanks said he had “dead eyes”.If you don’t recall — 2001’s Band of Brothers was part of the emerging trend of ...
 Buzz from the Beehive The 180 or so recipients of letters from the Government telling them how to submit infrastructure projects for âfast trackâ consideration includes some whose project applications previously have been rejected by the courts. News media were quick to feature these in their reports after RMA Reform Minister Chris ...
It would not be a desirable way to start your holiday by breaking your back, your head, or your wrist, but on our first hour in Singapore I gave it a try.We were chatting, last week, before we started a meeting of Hazel’s Enviro Trust, about the things that can ...
Calling all journalists, academics, planners, lawyers, political activists, environmentalists, and other members of the public who believe that the relationships between vested interests and politicians need to be scrutinised. We need to work together to make sure that the new Fast-Track Approvals Bill â currently being pushed through by the ...
Feel worried. Shane Jones and a couple of his Cabinet colleagues are about to be granted the power to override any and all objections to projects like dams, mines, roads etc even if: said projects will harm biodiversity, increase global warming and cause other environmental harms, and even if ...
Bryce Edwards writes-Â The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. ...
Michael Bassett writes – If you think there is a move afoot by the radical Maori fringe of New Zealand society to create a parallel system of government to the one that we elect at our triennial elections, you arenât wrong. Over the last few days we have ...
Without a corresponding drop in interest rates, it’s doubtful any changes to the CCCFA will unleash a massive rush of home buyers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate on Monday, April 22 included:The Government making a ...
Sunday was a lazy day. I started watching Jack Tame on Q&A, the interviews are usually good for something to write about. Saying the things that the politicians won’t, but are quite possibly thinking. Things that are true and need to be extracted from between the lines.As you might know ...
In our Weekly Roundup last week we covered news from Auckland Transport that the WX1 Western Express is going to get an upgrade next year with double decker electric buses. As part of the announcement, AT also said âSince we introduced the WX1 Western Express last November we have seen ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 29 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Stats NZ releases its statutory report on Census 2023 tomorrow.Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivers a pre-Budget speech at ...
A listing of 29 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 14, 2024 thru Sat, April 20, 2024. Story of the week Our story of the week hinges on these words from the abstract of a fresh academic ...
The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. The Government says this will ...
This is a column to say thank you. So many of have been in touch since Mum died to say so many kind and thoughtful things. You’re wonderful, all of you. You’ve asked how we’re doing, how Dad’s doing. A little more realisation each day, of the irretrievable finality of ...
Identifying the engine type in your car is crucial for various reasons, including maintenance, repairs, and performance upgrades. Knowing the specific engine model allows you to access detailed technical information, locate compatible parts, and make informed decisions about modifications. This comprehensive guide will provide you with a step-by-step approach to ...
Introduction: The allure of racing is undeniable. The thrill of speed, the roar of engines, and the exhilaration of competition all contribute to the allure of this adrenaline-driven sport. For those who yearn to experience the pinnacle of racing, becoming a race car driver is the ultimate dream. However, the ...
Introduction Automobiles have become ubiquitous in modern society, serving as a primary mode of transportation and a symbol of economic growth and personal mobility. With countless vehicles traversing roads and highways worldwide, it begs the question: how many cars are there in the world? Determining the precise number is a ...
Maintaining a safe and reliable vehicle requires regular inspections. Whether it’s a routine maintenance checkup or a safety inspection, knowing how long the process will take can help you plan your day accordingly. This article delves into the factors that influence the duration of a car inspection and provides an ...
Mazda Motor Corporation, commonly known as Mazda, is a Japanese multinational automaker headquartered in Fuchu, Aki District, Hiroshima Prefecture, Japan. The company was founded in 1920 as the Toyo Cork Kogyo Co., Ltd., and began producing vehicles in 1931. Mazda is primarily known for its production of passenger cars, but ...
Your car battery is an essential component that provides power to start your engine, operate your electrical systems, and store energy. Over time, batteries can weaken and lose their ability to hold a charge, which can lead to starting problems, power failures, and other issues. Replacing your battery before it ...
In most states, you cannot register a car without a valid driver’s license. However, there are a few exceptions to this rule. Exceptions to the RuleIf you are under 18 years old: In some states, you can register a car in your name even if you do not ...
Mazda, a Japanese automotive manufacturer with a rich history of innovation and engineering excellence, has emerged as a formidable player in the global car market. Known for its reputation of producing high-quality, fuel-efficient, and driver-oriented vehicles, Mazda has consistently garnered praise from industry experts and consumers alike. In this article, ...
Struts are an essential part of a car’s suspension system. They are responsible for supporting the weight of the car and damping the oscillations of the springs. Struts are typically made of steel or aluminum and are filled with hydraulic fluid. How Do Struts Work? Struts work by transferring the ...
Car registration is a mandatory process that all vehicle owners must complete annually. This process involves registering your car with the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and paying an associated fee. The registration process ensures that your vehicle is properly licensed and insured, and helps law enforcement and other authorities ...
Zoom is a video conferencing service that allows you to share your screen, webcam, and audio with other participants. In addition to sharing your own audio, you can also share the audio from your computer with other participants. This can be useful for playing music, sharing presentations with audio, or ...
Building your own computer can be a rewarding and cost-effective way to get a high-performance machine tailored to your specific needs. However, it also requires careful planning and execution, and one of the most important factors to consider is the time it will take. The exact time it takes to ...
Sleep mode is a power-saving state that allows your computer to quickly resume operation without having to boot up from scratch. This can be useful if you need to step away from your computer for a short period of time but don’t want to shut it down completely. There are ...
Te PÄti MÄori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veteransâ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veteransâ affairs spokesperson Greg OâConnor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxonâs management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonightâs court decision to overturn the summons of the Childrenâs Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about MÄori without evidence, says Te PÄti MÄori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. âThe judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last yearâs severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labourâs environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our countryâs most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Governmentâs Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a âget out of jail freeâ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te PÄti MÄori Justice Spokesperson, TÄkuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, MÄori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealandâs good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National governmentâs lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te PÄti MÄori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. âThis act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.â Said Te PÄti MÄori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for TÄmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te PÄti MÄori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mĆ TÄmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with MÄori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Governmentâs democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Governmentâs proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change thatâs great for the planet and great for consumers after her memberâs bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the countryâs books after Teanau Tuionoâs membersâ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his memberâs bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Todayâs advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. âWe know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,â Dr Reti says. âEvery day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikoheâs new $14.7 million sports complex. âThe completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,â Mr Jones says. âThis facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Petersâ engagements in TĂŒrkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges.  âReturning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,â Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen â good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood â a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - Â It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Â Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Â Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. âOur Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealandâs hydrogen future, with the opening of the countryâs first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. âI want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealandâs own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealandâs energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. âThe report shows that New Zealandâs emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,â Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where heâll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Governmentâs work to restore law and order. âAttending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealandâs human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the worldâs largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. âThe reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealandâs wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin  NgÄ mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho  Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today.  I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. âOur Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealandâs overseas missions.  âOur diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealandâs interests around the world,â Mr Peters says.  âI am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
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I woke with a start
in the middle of the night
I realised our banking friends
just hoovered another great bite
of our daily toil you see
each time our eyes alight with glee
at the thought of hundreds of thousands
bulging our wallets so easily
. . .
all that is needed
is a 12% rise
in the price of Auckland houses
of great and wonderous size
12% you see
times $550,000 of each of 400,000 houses not many
is $26,000,000,000 (that’s 26 billion) in one short year..
So thanks mr banker for providing such a sum
is only $1,6000,000 (that’s 1.6 billion) in interest (for printed money of all things) ….
how …..
bloody ….
dumb ….
yup, she’s a bubble all night. (just keep shuttin’ out those first home buyers and await the inevitable increase in liabilities; RNZ-landlords trying to get tenants to pay the water and rates bills in addition to rent)
USA! USA! We’re No.2!
China overtakes the US in world trade. The Asian century has begun:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/11/china-worlds-largest-trading-nation
Indifferent Labour leader who nobody much likes in poll shock:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/11/labour-lead-conservative-12-point-poll
Harrumph. His brother would have done better. đ
Keep pulling that bow string back, bruv. You’ve still got a fair way to go before you can link DS with EM. Nice try though.
Show the poll that shows if UK Labour had ditched pm Brown before the last election, their losses would have reduced to the point of forming a legitimate coalition with the lib dems.
I would not call Miliband indifferent. He is a conviction politician who speaks well.
And it makes you wonder why New Zealand Labour is not doing better.
And that’s with them blamed for GBR’s financial woes and increasing taxes for the lowest paid during their last government.
Looking at caucus is reason enough to work out why NZ Labour are not doing better.
Not really the Caucus, just the hopeless leader. Replace him with someone who can speak and Labour will have a 10 point bounce overnight.
Yip, elections are popularity contests these days…is there much of a difference between Labour UK & Labour NZ policies?
edit – just read Karol’s comment below…now my question is, if NZ Labour brought in more policies like UK Labour, would Shearer be popular in the polls?
“Not really the Caucus, just the hopeless leader.”
All right, just at least 22 of them.
Miliband does have a reasonable amount of parliamentary experience: been an MP since 2005, has been a cabinet minister, was secretary of state for energy and climate change, has experience in student politics, has been an political speech writer and taken a lead in drafting Labour Party policy, is articulate and is very good at delivering speeches. He also has explicitly articulated his political position: he has stated he is a socialist, is for civil liberties, wants to scrap uni tuition fees and implement a graduate tax, is for an FTT, is against welfare cuts.
He still panders to neoliberalism, but I’d position him to the left of Shearer.
Yep and he said that the UK’s involvement in the Iraqi war was a mistake. All power to him.
karol – both Millibands were raised by seriously socialist parents. IIRC his dad was a published marxist.
Not quite; I would suggest that he panders to capitalists. That is slightly different, and also necessary, given the economic structure the world runs on today.
Interesting that you consider Milliband “indifferent” yet I have a far better idea who he is and what he stands for than I do Shearer.
And that’s despite Milliband living on the other side of the planet and me having only a passing interest in anything he says.
Still, you can prove us all misguided any time you like by publishing the glowing poll results showing that Shearer has mumbled Labour ahead of National here too.
If not, you’re really only highlighting his failure to do so.
Ed Milliband speaking at his old comprehensive, during the UK Labour leadership challenge.
Listen to how he speaks off the cuff.
“My parents taught me something very very simple. Which is a faith really. If you see an injustice in your society you shouldn’t just walk by on the other side, you shouldn’t just get angry, you should do something about it.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DriJZdZxFpU
This is who TRP describes as an “indifferent” leader.
There’s a lot in that video that relates to the NZ Labour Party too, eh?
If only there were someone on the front bench capable of saying it. (Or someone who understands it.)
Oooh lads, your ignorance about Ed Miliband’s status in the UK is kinda cute.. He was initially regarded as being hopeless and is often ridiculed as being as being a Mr Bean like character. Like Shearer, he is starting to grow on the voters there. He is also, like Shearer, facing a whispering campaign to unseat him. Like it or not, its an apt comparison.
And, if you are going to claim reasonable knowledge of him and his works, felix, you should at least know how his name is spelled.
Didn’t claim that at all, TRP. Quite the opposite in fact.
“Like it or not, its an apt comparison.”
Really? You must have some polling data that none of the rest of us have seen then. Apparently Ed is 10 points ahead of the tories.
How far ahead of the tories is Dave?
Actually, a quick google suggests TRP might be on to something.
Just from the line snapshots in google:
Sep 29, 2012 â NEARLY half of Labour voters think that Ed Miliband is too WEAK to be Prime Minister, a poll has revealed.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/…/Only-one-in-five-Brits-think-Ed-Miliban…Oct 1, 2012 â FEWER than one in five Brits thinks Labour chief Ed Miliband is a PM in waiting, an exclusive YouGov poll for The Sun reveals.
Jun 23, 2012 â Mr Miliband is used to being told that he is well placed to attract … Ed Miliband got some bad news: A private poll suggested his party’s lead …
Voters cannot see Ed Miliband in power
http://www.newstatesman.com/node/40683/Sep 14, 2011 â The Times has released its annual pre-conference poll (ÂŁ), and it shows that Ed Miliband is still failing to command the support of his party.
Not following you McF.
Two leaders attract the same sort of criticisms, only one defies them.
with a year and a half advantage in time – sarc>so, no knives out before 2014, eh? /sarc>
Oh, and I’m not sure there was a Cunliffe grandstanding at Ed’s party conference address, refusing to say whether he’d challenge for the leadership in Feb.
Fair point about the 18 month head start.
Well, the UK Labour caucus had the sense to put their leadership out to a democratic vote by all members and all affiliates.
Amazing the unity in UK Labour which resulted eh?
Unlike the NZ Labour conference that chose not to put the vote to the membership of caucus had confidence in the leadership.
I agree with you.
On this count both the NZ Labour caucus and the NZ Labour Conference fucked up.
12 points, felix, put your glasses on. Itâs an apt comparison for the reasons Iâve given above. Feel free to point out the social democratic party leader anywhere in the world more like Shearer than Miliband.
And seeing as you appear to have forgotten what I wrote, here it is again:
âIndifferent Labour leader who nobody much likes in poll shock:â
My intention was to make people immediately think of Shearer, when the article was actually about Miliband. It’s a jokey juxtaposition of the two leaders, both of whom suffer from a lack of public enthusiasm. It’s a very common form of comedic one liner. Oddly enough, I’m sure you’ve cracked a few jokes along similar lines yourself in the past, so I’m surprised you’ve forgotten how it works.
ps, cheers, McFlock, you’re onto it.
This “joking” of yours, I dunno if it’s working for you.
The others get it, felix*. You used to be pretty funny yourself, back in the day. Why so sad?
*edit: Ok, you and the alien (below) don’t get it. Can I recommend the Guardian’s Fiver to you both? You’ll soon pick up how this comedic reversal stuff works.
Maybe I’m just a little too dumb and/or you’re just so cunningly good.
Happy to concede to either, unless of course I’m re-polarising the humour and injecting a particle of back at you, in which case, perhaps not. đ
But being as honest as I am, I can’t lie. I just didn’t get it. đ
You’re no dummy, so it must be my cunning goodness, Al1en! At the heart of it I was comparing Miliband and Shearer and the two Labour Parties. The leaders both got their jobs despite apparently better candidates being available and neither enjoys uncritical support. Both have a long way to go to convince voters to trust them, but UK Labour has found a way to turn disenchantment with the coalition government into positive support for them. NZ Labour have a couple of years to do the same, but the point is, it can be done.
“Youâre no dummy”
Now I know you’re having a laugh. đ
“it can be done.”
No doubting you. If only NZ Labour had their own Ed.
Oh I get how it works. You say the same sort of stuff all the time and usually try to argue it, then every now and then instead of arguing it you say “I was joking, I actually meant the opposite, not just of what I said just now but of what I say all the time.”
Hilar.
Fuck me, you’re really losing it felix! I’m not going to put smiley’s on every mildly wry comment I occasionally make just because you have a cobb on. Cheer up, for fucks sake!
Oh, didn’t you get it? Was totally a joke.
Yep, you certainly are. But not a particularly witty one, I’m afraid.
1057 pedants write in to say that the Fiver’s not very funny.
“And seeing as you appear to have forgotten what I wrote, here it is again:
âIndifferent Labour leader who nobody much likes in poll shock:â”
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
Is it Ed is perceived indifferently by some yet get’s good poll numbers, DS is perceived indifferently by many Labour members and voters, so it’s no surprise he’s continually gets the shit numbers his nothingness deserves?
I don’t get it.
Like Shearer, he is starting to grow on the voters
From the voice of reason
And yet on the old BBC polltracker, despite alleged misgivings, on the numbers, UK Labour have been able to form a government for the past couple of years.
So the poll about dumping Brown pre election equating to reduced parliamentary losses.
Not applicable here?
Would dumping the extremely unpopular Shearer not bounce the polls?
Argue otherwise.
And here the bloody Labour party can’t get past 33% What a crock!
Inspired TPR!
We should aim for indifferent spokespersons, backbench MPs and NZ Council members too.
Hey, why not go the full hog and insist that our canvassers/activists be indifferent and relatively unlikeable. That should do it. We are half way there. All we need now is for National to hang out the white flag, roll over and hand us the keys to the Beehive.
Inspired Strategy, Go TRP, the Voice of Pagani!
Aim…low..
Comprehension prob’s this arvo, KV? Try reading the words aloud. Oh, you already do that?
Worst Pope since that dork who made himself infallible. On your bike pal.
Tau Henare for pope!
lolz
If only all leaders had the humility to step down when they realise they’re not up to the job rather than letting pride get in the way…
Begs the question of what a great Pope would be:
A) One so sure of the rightness of his convictions – and thus that all non-Catholics are bound for Hell* – that he mobilises all the tools available to any wealthy organisation in the 21st Century to assault the great unwashed with his version of the truth (including an all-out assault on the mistaken beliefs of those other misguided People of the Book presently lopping the limbs off non-believers in various parts of the world), or
B) A Pope who declares ex-cathedra that the whole thing is really just a crock of merda, or
C) A Pope who converts Roman Catholicism into its true role as an entertainment business, as “The Church Ltd.” and moves the Vatican to Hollywood, or
D) A Pope who completes his entire Papacy without a single scandal,
E) a lady Pope who manages not to get pregnant.
*Pope Boniface VIII: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
What has really made the Pope’s job untenable?
Probably the last eight decades of child sexual assault creating a backlog of settlements.
Yup! (according to RNZ report; he just could not reconcile all this kiddy-fiddlin’ and there is a lot more to come out of the woodwork in this pornocratic age)
On the flipside, someone has at last voluntarily left a secure job, most likely just to go on a benefit.
My ACT membership fees are in the post đ
Prime TV has taken on 60 Minutes. Last night they did a great (?) Public Relations job for Mr Key and Sir Peter Jackson. The happily used the 3,000 employed and the saving of the Hobbits thanks to clever, brave action by Key and Jackson, leading to billions (!) of dollars for needy NZ.
Especially telling given the current wait for the emails.
They still categorise that program as “current affairs”, I just wonder “whose” “current affairs”?
“The Nation” on TV 3 has also struck me as having a “kind inclination” towards presenting the government in good light (remember the live cast from the National Party Conference and lengthy interviews with Ministers and co-hosted with selected media personalities).
This all calls for a solid return to fair, balanced public broadcasting, so turn TVNZ into something like the ABC in Australia. As for advertising “paying” for private or semi private broadcasting, in reality consumers pay for the broadcasting through buying the products advertised.
Only pay per view or so is acceptable, competitive “private” broadcasting.
It is that time again for Maori to decide which electoral roll to sign onto the Maori or European rolls,
The more Maori who sign onto the Maori roll, the more likely it is that there will be more Maori electorate seats in the Parliament…
running a whanau campaign as i type. Most Maori I know are on the Maori roll. Just need to educate more of our young ones.
Good skills, i love the Maori electorate seats, in my view an actual physical expression of Tinorangatiratanga within the Parliament,
Maori who deserve a central and pivotal role in the central decision making process are given that with the Maori electorates where they can at once vote for a candidate from within the rohe and if they so choose Party vote for who they see as being the major party of Government,
Speaking from Wellington i believe the Maori Party burned a lot of young people when it went into coalition with the National Government,
i was highly impressed having young Maori knocking on my door at the 2008 election seeking my vote for the party,(as i explained then i had to decline as Tariana’s motivation for foriming that party in the first place, no matter how justified She was in doing so, precluded the Maori Party from supporting a Labour lead Government),
It only took 18 months here for the Maori Party flags to all but disappear and the window stickers to be hastily scraped from the back windscreens of the waka,
2011 brought no canvassers for the Maori Party to the door round here and i can only assess the damage done to all those young Maori that once so proudly trod those miles supporting ‘their’ party against my own experience of having trod similar miles on behalf of the Labour Party which helped elect Sir(spit)Roger Douglas into a Government, which provided me a serious imperative to view myself as a fool for having been fooled by those people,
Good luck with inspiring your young voters we need them involved, not only as voters but as activists who have a voice in the political process…
It makes you wonder about the suggestion that Tamihere was going to get West Auckland Whanau to go over to the European roll. This would weaken the case for another seat so that he could try and take Bennett on. He would be better off going up against Pita Sharples.
He sure would! Sometimes you wonder about politicians, signing onto the Maori roll as opposed to European should not be a monopoly game……
JT must earn a seat by taking it from the opposition.
Using Treasury figures Nick Smith is claiming that Labour’s KiwiBuild will not bring down the cost of housing in Auckland,(RadioNZ National news),
I have yet to see this Treasury report but it’s obvious from what Nick Smith has been saying that the Treasury has started from the point of a ‘false’ initial premise,(that the entire ‘build’ is a one off 10,000 homes), and then extrapolated their conclusions upon that false premise, in other words created for it’s own purposes a ‘strawman’ argument with which to attempt to discredit Labour’s ‘KiwBuild’ program,
Treasury of course get everything right in their advice to Minister’s like getting right the assertion that the GST rise to 15% along with the associated shuffling of the tax burdon to the detriment of those reliant on the lower income brackets for their daily needs by the Slippery lead National Government would be ‘fiscally neutral’,
Such a getting of it’s advice right to Government blew a billion dollar annual hole in the Government’s revenue from taxation, not that Slippery and Co gave a big one about that as their only intent with such a ‘tax switch’ was to ensure the loyalty of the current National Party vote,
The new Minister of un-Housing NZ Nick Smith tho thrives on such ‘strawman arguments'(if the truth were known it’s possible that He dictated the contents of the Treasury report to those who wrote it),and the 2009 settlement of Nick’s defamation of a South Island building supply company settled by over 200 grand of your and my monies shows that Nick hasn’t yet realized that mostly what is ejected from His mouth turns out to be s**t…
Did anyone read the Richard Prosser column in investigate magazine, where he refers to all muslims as being from “wogistan”, and states that anyone looking even vaguely “muslim” shouldnt be allowed on western airlines.
Tried to find it online, but best I can do is a kiwiblog link (sorry).
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/02/wogistan.html
“In his latest column he refers to certain people as coming from âWogistanâ and also declares that no young male who is a Muslim, looks like a Muslim or is from a Muslim country should be able to fly on a Western airline.”
That rules out Temuera Morrison and Cliff Curtis ever flying again đ
What does a Muslim look like anyway? I think Prosser means Arab. What a dick.
Looks like pretty clear grounds for a Race Relations complaint. I guess he is after the publicity.
Not really a Race Relations complaint.
If they are happy with “White Mother Fuckers” – since it was an opinion (of somebody that is generally popular on this forum) – then Prossers opinion (as messed up as it is) should be ok also.
Private emails and published magazine columns are completely the same thing! Using a naughty word and advocating institutional oppression are completely the same thing!
God, could white dudes get over what a meany-pants Hone Harawira is already?
Poor James, no grasp of set theory, takes a couple of words out of a sentence and applies his own meaning as if it were gospel.
Hint James: When I say “smart motherfuckers have been posting in this thread” I’m not necessarily talking about you.
Messers felix and QoT, I aint diving into this one except to put this to your good minds…. this is exactly where the left misses huge portions of the population. Either the left has the wrong end of the stick in defending one disparaging racist comment and supporting the other disparaging racist comment, or the left is totally useless in explaining what is wrong with the point james makes. It just leaves the population shaking its head and dismissing it. QoT’s explanation comes across as splitting hairs to support personal preferences in the political realm.
This is what they see. I mean, what is going on when the two “sides”, left and right, just cannot understand each others points. Especially on issues as basic as this. It just comes across as two sets of rules for two different groups to the rightish types…
So, what gives?
Over
I never said Hone’s comments were advisable, or helpful, or smart.
Yeah – Hone isnt a rasist – he is taken out of context. :Tui:
Its people like you – and the fact that labour will die in the ditch with Mana / NZ First if you needed that are driving your voters away in droves.
So dont worry about poor James – Felix Viper, worry about your own party who are sinking and will continue to do so. After all you are judged by the company you keep.
lol at that kb thread, not many commenters disagree with Prosser.
DPF puts on his outraged urban liberal hat and invites all his KKK mates over for a beer.
As usual.
I heard this Prosser issue make it on to National Radio. Really fucking sick bastard.
If Winston doesn’t force Prosser to retract this ASAP it will be a black mark against NZ1: evidence that it’s still a racist party at heart.
If you ever needed an example of why a Labour-Green-NZFirst coalition will never work you only have to look at the stupidity and racist bigotry contained in Richard Prosser’s (or is that Tosser’s) article. And fancy writing for Investigate magazine!
If you ever needed an example of why a Labour-Green-NZFirst coalition will never work …
This, exactly this.
Nobody on the (broad) left has to pander to the likes of Prosser. A Labour/Green majority is achievable. Now we just need Labour to say they really want one. And mean it.
Is that so much to ask?
Completely agree micky and gobsmacked. It scares me everytime I see someone here talk about a threeway coalition that included NZF as if it’s a good thing. And yeah, Labour really need to get their shit together on who their allies are.
Based on this article, will Shearer have the balls to ask Winston that he either dumps Prosser or Labour will not go into coaliation win NZF?, or does getting into power trump everything else?
Should be asking Key really, he’s the one who’s going to have to deal with Winston & co.
Excellent, Winston has just about passed His used by date, Brendon Who has been kneecapped and bundled off to Siberia along with His leadership aspirations,
Prosser, the loose cannon in this little game of ‘Texas holdem’ has not only jumped off of the 17th floor in an act of political suicide far grander in scale than that of Brendon Who, Prosser has also managed to introduce the possibility that NZFirst wont feature in the next Parliament,
Bravo Richard Prosser lets have you on the TV news for a week raving about muslims and ‘Wogistan’ a guaranteed provocation that should have the left arm of NZFirst walking away in droves…
Winston was just on RadioNZ National distancing Himself from Richard Prosser’s comments, saying that there are zillions of law abiding Muslims and he knows a few personally as they are Party members,
Richard Prosser’s political future in NZFirst=Zero, NZFirst’s chances of returning to the Parliament in 2014= Fading fast…
Darn – no cliff in a hollywood movie – on the upside it also means no Tem in a hollywood movie.
Just listened to yesterday’s RNZ politics with Hooton & Williams.
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20130211-1110-politics_with_matthew_hooton_and_mike_williams-048.mp3
Yet again, Mike W agrees with almost everything that Hooton says and so yet again the seemingly
only leftwing voice comes from the bloody presenter. (Hint Mike: It’s not Kathryn’s job to call Mathew out on his shit, it’s yours)
Lowlights: When asked why NZ doesn’t have enough sailors to operate its vessels, Hooton bizarrely goes into a rant about how the Green party are hypocrites because they aren’t pushing for a strong military given their position on climate change. (Hooton apparently thinks that consequences of climate change for NZ will be millions of Indonesians trying to invade us.)
After this Kathryn, once more, called him on his shit of not answering the question.
Then….
Right at the end Hooton, like a love-sick puppy, can’t sing enough praise for David Shearer, ‘oh David’s so savvy, oh David’s fought off three leadership challenges, oh David oh David….etc’
I used to think the problem with the show was hooton but it’s not, it’s Williams.
He’s too bloated (in all senses of the word) to do the job properly. Too close to the beltway. He’s spent too many years on the good paddocks, getting fat on the very system he should be railing against. I hear him speak and I feel, as he nods along with Hooters, that his mind is straying to the pasta and beer he’s going to have for lunch, or the afternoon nap in a comfy chair.
Please step down Mike. Please let someone with vitality and enthusiasm do the job properly.
+1
I don’t like having to listen to sound of Williams wheezing all the way through the slot. Can’t they turn his mic off when he’s not speaking?
Hah! Absolutely, quartz.
The problem is the Nine to Noon producers. Maybe they need a few emails of alternative suggestions and encouragement to change, or at least trial some different people. Maybe making complaints would help.
Yeah true, CW.
How can this be so? The secret vote is no longer secret? And whoever has leaked it is pushing Grant Robertson as leader?
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/02/was_it_10_votes_against.html
Yeah I understood that it was a 10 vote abstention as well. In otehr words, 70% of caucus decided that there was no need to give a voice to the members and affiliates.
Don’t just blame the 70%, CV! The other 30% of caucus also decided that there was no need to give a voice to the members and affiliates and bottled it by abstaining.
And, encouragingly, 100% of caucus endorsed the democratic process the members and affiliates wanted and voted in at conference.
Even if this report was true, and I seriously doubt it, so what? The minority didn’t have the courage of their convictions., Shearer is endorsed and we move on …
…to Robertson.
The next government will be a Shearer led Labour /Green coalition.and Shearer will prove to be an excellent Labour PM. I just wish some of you so called Labour Supporters would just start to fully support the LP, party . I think a lot of you are just Tories in drag if you are not well join the Nat’s and moan and groan to those Po faced creeps or better still join NZ 1st and join the Muslim bashers At least they give the Jews and Asians a break. from their Racist utterances .
How hard would it have been for Shearer to respond to Prosser’s crap by saying “It’s outrageous and he won’t be a minister in any government I lead” ?
But instead
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10864924
where are his instincts? On what do you base your belief that he’d be an excellent PM?
Why on earth is the word “Moslem” used in that NZH article??? What the frak is a “Moslem”???
An indication that the Herald’s only dictionary on site is fifty years old?
Ha, it’s “Muslim” now. I noticed earlier in the day though that it was “Moslem” except for the name of the NZ Muslim Association. So who do you reckon the numpty is, Kurt Bayer or Matthew Theunissen?
And from Stuff:
That’s my point McFlock.
His instincts. are ‘OMG what will people think’ rather than the principle. And he includes a weird little aside about how he thinks Muslims might riot if he’d said it in the middle east. At least he didn’t call it wogistan I guess.
The best bit is the subtle buying into the “Muslims are violent and lawless” meme that Prosser is promoting.
No, his instincts were to say Prosser’s comments were offensive and completely inappropriate for Parliament.
THEN to look into the further problems with them, and the impact they could have locally and internationally. And that the comments were premeditated, not just a slip of the tongue.
Was he incorrect?
The correct answer in that context is “That’s racist bullshit and I won’t have him in my govt”.
Anything else – in that context, for Shearer – is incorrect, yes.
incorrect for two reasons: firstly, Shearer doesn’t do “ladsy” very well. Using the patois of the gutter wouldn’t be convincing from him – it would be patronising. And referring to “my government” at this stage would be fodder for key and yourself (seriously – if he’d said what you just typed, are you seriously saying you wouldn’t call him something like “try-hard and deluded”?).
So Shearer needed to go to the second characteristic of leadership: show decorum and geopolitical competence. Which he did.
Hone’s line was best, Peters did the minimising self-serving statement, and key was pretty noncommittal until fed the angle by the journalists.
[edit] PB – did we cross-post?
Was he incorrect to start blathering about how he reckons Muslims might have reacted (hint Violent muslims)? Yes.
the point isn’t that what he said might hurt us internationally, the point is he’s a bigoted halfwit. How hard is it to say:
âItâs outrageous and he wonât be a minister in any government I leadâ ?
If he needs to follow up on that go with how he wouldn’t have future in the party if he was a Labour MP but that’s a matter for Winston.
Or talk about how this is the sort of nonsense we last heard when Bush was in power, and the National party wanted to join in on the stupid war in Iraq, where John Key said we were missing in action.
That was geopolitical competence? For whom, a 3rd year pol-sci undergrad?
nope. From someone with several years’ experience in the region.
I guess we did cross post.
Read this: Judith Collins ffs, sounds more like what I’d expect a NZ Labour party leader to sound like:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1302/S00126/nz-embarrassed-by-prossers-comments.htm
rain artillery on the prick, from a position of principle.
Goff’s statement.
Similar to Collins’. Which is a valid technique – the leader frowns, the front bench barks. 1-MP parties have to do both.
I didn’t mean he should say that verbatim McF.
My fault, should’ve been clearer. I just meant all he needs to do is strongly disagree and NOT waffle on about how you shouldn’t piss muslims off ‘cos they get a bit stroppy, or anything else.
Trouble is the more he does this sort of thing, the more I think he’s just saying what he really thinks.
And that’s way worse than what I was giving him credit for.
completely inappropriate for Parliament.
Totally appropriate in heaps of other contexts, though.
Shearer did strongly disagree with Prosser’s comments.
I disagree with your interpretation of Shearer’s comments relating to civil stability in the Middle East. I think they were valid, especially given his extensive experience in the area. But feel free to correct him. I suggest repeating Prosser’s statements in downtown Cairo. Let us know how you get on.
@QoT: what a load of crap.
“I suggest repeating Prosserâs statements in downtown Cairo. Let us know how you get on.”
Ah, so you mean if you just take Shearer’s literal words, squnting away all context and subtext, you could say he was factually accurate in that you shouldn’t actually go to the middle east and be all anti-muslim.
Does that make it a smart thing to say? I suppose it depends what message you’re trying to send.
A bit like Hone’s ‘white motherfuckers have been raping our land for centuries.’ Factually accurate if you allow a little poetic license, but potentially highly offensive, mainly to those with no grasp of basic set theory.
Many thought at the time that it was politically naive of him to say such things, but again, it depends who the message is for. Who do you think Shearer’s message about muslims being prone to violence was for?
“Many thought at the time that it was politically naive of him to say such things, but again, it depends who the message is for. Who do you think Shearerâs message about muslims being prone to violence was for?”
That wasn’t the message I detected. So I guess is wasn’t for people who generally try to see if there’s any realistic reason for outrage before displaying it.
Maybe Shearer was simply pointing out that having a racist MP won’t make us friends in the Middle East, and might make us a few enemies? But once again Shearer can’t mention an issue without it apparently being an intentional dogwhistle.
Option B is that people are going well out of their way to detect cause for offense.
It’s possible.
It’s also possible that he’s just not very good at making a concise, unambiguous statement.
I guess one day we’ll have enough data to figure out if there’s a pattern to support either of those hypotheses.
Ex-UNAMA worker in let’s-avoid-violence in Middle East shocker!
Cf to Harawira –
” Mana Party leader Hone Harawira said Mr Prosser’s comments were racist, and without basis in fact.
“It’s kinda like saying that no 19- to 35-year-old white guys should be allowed to go anywhere because they cause so many wars around the world.”
Lol.
I thought Hone was pretty damn good with that one.
aye, ’twas a nice response.
It’s all very well saying Shearer will led a Labour/ Green coalition but he’s not exactly shining when it comes to actually having some talent on the front benches – still the same old, same old. Even Key has managed to gain the march on him when it comes to bold moves (and that’s saying something). The vindictive way he has treated Cunliffe is rediculous. When Shearer starts pulling the party together, we will start winning!
How private was the private vote? Did some MPs abstain instead of voting because they feared repercussions?
Well, not so much supposed to be a private vote, as a secret vote…
most MPs voted for just a little democracy (eg they supported the thresholds at 50% or 60%). Only a minority of MPs voted for the 40% threshold.
I meant within caucus, in that specific vote, CV. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Ahhhh no probs mate.
And, in fact, a minority of the R&F delegates.
Can someone who really knows what the Labour Constitution changes were please explain one thing for me.
Did Shearer have to get 60% of the caucus to vote for him to keep his position without a party-wide vote or did 40% have to vote against him to force a vote?
In the first case an abstention would be just the same as a no vote wouldn’t it?
In the second case it wouldn’t but there would surely have to be another candidate who stood against him.
“Everyone in Labour knows Grant Robertson will become the next leader. The only question is when.”
In August is my guess, six months to see if there is a poll improvement and then the chop or resignation as leader by Shearer.
The link you supplied says it all, how united the Labour caucus are over Shearer being the leader.
âEveryone in Labour knows Grant Robertson will become the next leader. The only question is when.â
I’ll add a why?
Is this the “almost certainly unanimous” vote we heard so much about?
Nah, it’s the “Shearer will have 100% support” one.
Yeah tht’s right, pretty sure I remember someone saying something about that?….
http://thestandard.org.nz/growing-the-left-vote/#comment-584523
đ
Er, Shearer did get 100% support, if this lie is true. 100% support from those with the courage to vote. The interesting thing in this beat up is how low opposition to Shearer now is. Ok, it’s not true, but if its down to just ten, Shearer’s here for the long run.
Of course, a certain backbencher might refuse to say whether he’ll challenge in 2015…
well, now that I have a telly, Shearer continues to underwhelm; maybe I’m phylum and xylem after all đ
Assuming you’ve replied to the wrong comment there, but anyhoo…
“for all the reasons I’ve given above” would seem to me to include the bit about how Ed is starting to grow on voters, and how the polls are showing it.
No?
edit: This was a response to a comment from TRP which appears to be missing.
[lprent: He probably deleted it. It can be done in the editing window. ]
I replied in the wrong place, felix, and deleted it. It’s now a bit further down the page.
And in answer to your question, a qualified yes. Both leaders are starting to gain some small traction in the preferred PM polls, but both have a long way to go. In terms of the UK poll support for Labour, it really has a lot to do with voter disgust with both the other parties, rather than anything Miliband is doing. But then, its probably easier to gain support in a 3 way, FPP contest where the other 2 parties form the current Government than it is in a 7 way MMP contest. In the UK situation, Labour is the default depository of the anti-coalition vote, though UKIP are also hurting the Tories by taking the important taxi driver, white van man and Little Englander vote.
NRT gets blogpost title of the week:
“Labour: As useless as a proverbial useless thing”
http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/02/labour-as-useless-as-proverbial-useless.html
A pondering… one tane huna and meself just had another ding dong over when someone becomes a hater rather than a person with simply a different view.
When does someone become a hater? You know, like a hater of homosexuals. A hater of old white men. A hater of the yellow peril. A hater of pakeha. When? Because as far as I can see there remain so many issues where there is blanket hypocrisy e.g. supporting of separate institutions… is this bigotry of a form? Or is it not? Or another example, supporting of inclusive institutions … is it this that is a form of prejudice? Or does it depend on what side of the political specturm your view apparently stems from according to political fashion of the day?
When does racism exist? When does ageism exist? When does any form of bigotry exist? It is such a mish-mash of varying rules and determinants that it renders so many of these accusations and labels empty and useless. There is no consistency. Or is there? Where is it? Who has it?
Who woulda thunk it.
http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/02/11/study-confirms-tea-party-was-created-big-tobacco-and-billionaires
Anyone care to argue that Shearer handled this well?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10864924
Never mind! He’s getting Better!!
Except he’s not.
How hard is it to respond to a bunch of bigited crap from a NZ First idiot without saying ‘Muslims would riot if he said it over there’. ffs.
Jeebers. The actual words he used are worse than your summary.
The worst part is that he was quoted alongside Peters, Key, Banks and Harawira and he still looks a tool in comparison. ffs indeed.
Peters saying there’s an element of truth? Sheesh.
Nice chuckle at Banks’ describing someone else as “crazy” and “bizarre”.
Harawira had the best response I reckon, and the journos in the lobby chat with Key on tv1 website basically led him to the desired lines.
Yeah I liked that too, and Banks’ weirdness.
Peters’ response ain’t far from what Shearer said really. All that stuff about how the muslims would turn violent if you said that in the middle east etc, that’s pretty much just another way of saying there’s an element of truth to it.
I disagree. Peters was saying that there was an element of truth that muslim males pose a significant risk to air transport (when apparently Boeing batteries are more dangerous). Basically the only non-Muslim terrorist he knew of was McVeigh.
Shearer was simply pointing out that sometimes cartoons can clock off riots in the MidEast.
But Shearer should know that cartoons that insult the prophet have sparked riots. This is not like that. All he did was reinforce that those crazy Muslims riot at the drop of a hat over there in wogistan.
Firstly, I should point out that the cartoon reference was mine, not Shearer’s. Shearer referred to the Middle East.
I’m sure that the cartoon-related riots were the only incidents of civil disorder from North Africa to the Indus in the past decade.
But this perfectly illustrates Shearer’s problem. He’s hopeless at politics.
I am quite certain that David Shearer the person – the guy who has worked in all those places, alongside so many people of different faiths, ethnicities etc – would be genuinely offended by Prosser’s comments. He’s thinking “What a racist sh*t”.
But Shearer the politician thinks he has to second-guess and run it by whoever the handlers are and generally dilute and diminish his own real response. He condemns, but … as always, with qualifiers. Every time he speaks, he qualifies.
According to NRT he couldn’t even say that he wouldn’t have Prosser in his team. But I bet he wouldn’t have Prosser in his team … he’s just been brainwashed into thinking he mustn’t say so. Or say anything that would interfere with the Sleepwalk Strategy.
FFS David, stop this. You lose both ways. The liberals and left only think less of you, the so-called centre (conservatives?) just think you’re a wimp.
Projection.
Just because you or I think in obscenities it doesn’t mean Shearer does.
And did KEY say Prosser couldn’t be in HIS government? If Shearer had said it he would be arrogant and delusional. He doesn’t so he gets flak. Key doesn’t, not a whisper. Shearer’s already losing both ways, right here.
*bangs head on desk*
Shearer can’t determine what Key says. Or what the media say about what Key says. But (and this really, really isn’t hard …) –
Shearer can determine what HE says. Jessica Mutch asked him a question. It wasn’t a fair question, it was a “Gotcha” if you like, but if Shearer can only cope with what’s fair, he should quit politics right now.
Do you seriously have any difficulty in deciding on the spot how to answer a question about standing Prosser down? Of course you don’t. Nor do I. Nor would anybody with an ounce of political smarts.
He is lost.
[lprent: I am getting concerned about your head banging. Is there anything we can do to help? đ Personally at present I find that standing directly in front of te aircond….]
Who in the blogosphere has criticised key for not ruling prosser out of government, was my point. But it seems to be a drumbeat against the guy the drum-circle seem to think will never be IN government, anyway.
Mutch with a gotcha? What are you referring to? The only searches I’ve found that quote Shearer are print – got a link? Or am I to wait for 6pm?
He couldbe in govt McF, but he’s doing his darndest to avoid it so far.
Which still means issuing statements about who he’d govern with is arrogant to the point of delusion. Or it’s a serious omission by a probable future prime minister. Damned both ways.
He doesn’t have to issue statements. He simply has to respond to questions. Exactly what he’ll be required to do in the election campaign, without benefit of minders 24/7.
For the Twitter reaction, here’s a good starting point:
https://twitter.com/publicaddress
The relevance here is that this is part of a consistent pattern. Shearer is not faced with a tough challenge, condemning Prosser. But he can only deal with the prepared line (Stage 1), not follow-ups (Stage 2). That tells us a lot about both his political instincts, and his underlying principles. Both are found wanting, frequently.
There’s no “drum beat” from many of those (like Russell Brown) who were annoyed on Twitter. The idea that Shearer’s critics are only a Standard few is a delusion.
Yeah, on current polling it probably would be arrogant.
But that’s where he should be now: Being taken seriously as a contender for the top job, articulating an alternate vision for the country, describing the kind of govt he’ll lead.
@gobsmacked: I’m sure it’s just a one-off stumble, he won’t be like this all the time, he’s stared down warlords, his media training will kick in any day now, he’s only like this when there are cameras or people around etc etc.
fuck twitter – where’s the interview with the gotcha question you’re talking about?
@FV:
At the moment he’s not. And if Labour were polling 55%, people here would be calling him arrogant and jumped up.
Meh, can’t really argue with what you reckon people would say given this or that.
You could point out how my characterisation is completely inconsistent with the measured and rational tone with which issues are logically discussed whenever Shearer’s name is mentioned. Good luck with that.
Yes, it’s getting quite difficult to criticise anything Shearer (or Labour) says without inviting quite irrational and emotional responses from certain commenters here.
You’d have a point if “mad barking at contrived slights” counted as “criticism”.
Oh I think there’s been plenty of decent criticism. You’re bound to get a bit of mad barking when all the decent criticism goes so unheeded for so long though.
chicken and egg syndrome again, I guess
Trust the process and get on side guys, no more of this whining like bellyachers, victory will be ours in 2014!
Cannot see anything wrong with the Shearer comment myself, if such a story became a feature of news in many of the Arab Muslim countries there is a likelihood of demonstrations being provoked…
@vto
I thought you wound up that little ding dong rather well!
Seems like the ground is always shifting as to what’s ‘a different opinion ‘ and what’s ‘enter derogatory name here’. I get fed up with the race to label someone and box them into a place where they have no choice but to hold their ground. What do you (as in anybody) want – to “win the contest” ? Have a frank exchange of views? Learn something? Bring someone round to your point of view? If you want to alter someone’s perception, giving them no option but to defend themselves at all costs results in a ‘not achieved.’
It’s interesting how one’s own views get challenged in unexpected ways. A couple of years ago, I was in a large workplace where I was one of the 5% minority by ethnicity and gender. That place fractured in ways I never expected, much of it was destructive, cut-throat and detrimental to the people it was meant to serve. It was very ugly and a timely warning that greed, ambition and egotism reside everywhere. And that for me is the crux of the matter – the best ideals can be subverted by ugliness.
I like authenticity. Where the walk matches the talk.
I’m very fond of the word ‘and’. Like, I think there’s room in the Labour Party for Louisa Wall AND John Tamihere. Personally, neither is my cup of tea, but both voices need to be heard. Room in the Green Party for Russel Norman AND David Cunliffe – yeah, I know, in my dreams.
Indeed, thanks for the feedback. You are especially right about the race to pigeonhole someone and the effect, often cumulative, that that has on healthy debate and inclusiveness – it does the opposite, as it did. For no gain.
This entire issue around pigeonholing and labelling and hypocrisy is on the watch list …..
Well he was (DC I mean) frolicking/engaging with a few Green Party types on the Rainbow Warrior today so ….. funnier things have happened at sea
Been trying to find an online copy of Tom Scott’s cartoon of Steven Joyce sicking a turtle onto Novopay in Sat 9 Feb DomPost. Stuff have conveniently not shown it, nor is it on their Tom Scott page. It’s sad/funny and spot on. Can anyone supply a link please?
Rob Oram, one of my favorites when commenting on either business or economics got around to being really circumspect when discussing the Mainzeal collapse on His regular RadioNZ National nine to noon spot today,
Rob got as far as pointing out that RichinaPacific the Richard Yan investment vehicle which was the majority shareholder in the collapsed Mainzeal had been de-listed from the New Zealand share-market
along with Mainzeal and RichinaPacific was then registered in the Bahamas,(a known tax haven),
Here’s one for Rob, and would tend to suggest RichinaPacific in the guise of a company registered in an extremely low tax jurisdiction being the depository for the monies from Mainzeal construction being a vehicle for claiming losses in a higher taxed jurisdiction,
December 2012, Revenue Minister, (the Hairdo from Ohariu), Peter Dunne publicly announces that He will be closing the loophole in the New Zealand tax laws which allows multi-national companies to declare losses in New Zealand and ship the profits off-shore to be declared in a low tax inviroment,
December 2012,Jenny Shiply along with a number of others quit the board of Mainzeal Construction…
He’s rod oram not rob oram. And yes, he is very good.
If Johnny smart arse had worked in NZ for any great length of time before his need for greed completely took over and became Shylock he might have a small idea as to what NZ is loosing thru his tight wad policies
Crown Law spent $441,000 fighting Susan Couch suing corrections; as if the woman has not been through enough already nearly dying. RNZ put in an OIA request.
Yes and the awful affair has been going on since 2005!
It appears to have been settled only because the Corrections department got a new boss.
For a change I am on the side of Garth McVicar on this one.
Ok. Starting to get close. Two bugs, one (minor) enhancement, and a occasional repaint issue to go on the project. At 32 months, one product already released, a heart attack, and more than 4500 revisions in svn – I might be able to slow down from coding for a while and actually write some posts….
I’m sure that politicians will be looking forward to that. đ
svn = makes life worth living
But congrats … I never picked up on what the project was but I imagine it’s been all consuming. In my own technical space I’ve been pretty committed and full on myself this last year or so… finally got to a decent break myself this week.
But how the hell did you do all that and run this place too Lynn?
Carefully
Mostly over the last two years by steadily dropping everything that sucked up too much time. The Labour work I dropped. Effectively stopped writing posts and cut back on comments here, but maintained tech and moderation. Driving to work rather than buses/walking (saves about an hour a day but drops the exercise way back). And above all, using an iPad in bed for blogging and reading (kicked reading speed up by about 50%)