Open mike 14/11/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 14th, 2023 - 45 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step up to the mike …

45 comments on “Open mike 14/11/2023 ”

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  1. Thinker 1
    14 November 2023 at 7:49 am

    Behind the scenes coalition negotiations 😜

    https://youtu.be/hlb-lXypMyI?si=SPVubYtzqLWq-yaN

      • dv 1.1.1
        14 November 2023 at 8:04 am

        yesyes​​​​​​​yes​​​​​​​​​​​​​​yes​​​​​​​​​​​​​​yes​​​​​​​​​​​​​​yes​​​​​​​​​​​​​​yes​​​​​​​​​​​​​​yes​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

      • Bearded Git 1.1.2
        14 November 2023 at 8:41 am

        Haha.

        On a serious note, I want to know WTF Luxon/Seymour/Peters were doing in the three weeks after the election when they knew the probable outcome given the way specials usually go. They should have had a deal just about sewed up before the final result was announced.

        I'm suspicious that that they are dragging this out on purpose to blame the specials and so change voting eligibility to favour the Right. That is, to dump same day registration, and perhaps other measures like needing to bring ID when voting.

        • bwaghorn 1.1.2.1
          14 November 2023 at 9:06 am

          Luxon and seymour were praying they wouldn't need Winston instead of being grown ups.

        • Cricklewood 1.1.2.2
          14 November 2023 at 10:56 am

          The obvious change would be count the party vote portion of the specials in the booth they are cast and include them in the provisional results on the night. Sure there might be some disqualified etc but unless it was a really close election we would have a much better idea of where things sit before the final result is issued.

          • Belladonna 1.1.2.2.1
            14 November 2023 at 12:02 pm

            That sounds like a really practical suggestion.

            There would be a bit of double handling. Counting special votes, for the party element – before they were reallocated to the batch going to a specific electorate – but it shouldn't be too challenging to manage.

            Given that there are usually tens of thousands of votes separating even the closest of results – and that the same margin is required to flip seats at the party level – even a small minority of uncounted informal votes would be unlikely to affect the result. They would, of course, be properly counted and accounted for in the 'final' result (although, given the current performance of the EC, perhaps not).

          • Bearded Git 1.1.2.2.2
            14 November 2023 at 12:53 pm

            Good idea Crickle.

        • Mike the Lefty 1.1.2.3
          14 November 2023 at 11:54 am

          I guess if they started obviously behaving like they had won already they might have incurred some negative pushback, something like what happened to National in 2005. But the real reason is more like what you suggest, Luxon really had no idea of whether he could cobble together a working government with the desperados surrounding him. He still doesn't, despite all the smiles and obligatory mutterings about "good working relationships" and "having a common goal".

          They have nothing of the sort, this will be a government with its only common factors being hatred of the outgoing government, plus greed and arrogance. If Luxon can make a government that lasts the full term then he is a better man than I think he is.

          But it is so typical of the right to blame others for their own failings. The system delivered the result, not without some errors and problems, but compared with overseas elections they were pretty minor. Its up to these bods to form a stable government. If it is beyond them, then they should advise the GG that they are unable to form a government and it will be back to the ballot boxes again. Only this time the public will have judged them on their inabilities.

          Even if they manage to form a government, there will be no honeymoon period. Already the electorate is sick and tired of the manipulations and perambulations and the parties playing games with each other.

          • Bearded Git 1.1.2.3.1
            14 November 2023 at 12:59 pm

            +100 Mike…..I am getting really tired of hearing Luxon say "strong and stable"….couldn't he say "robust and solid" or one of many other options available, just so that I can have some confidence he has a working brain.

            • observer 1.1.2.3.1.1
              14 November 2023 at 4:47 pm

              As mentioned before, "strong and stable" became a running joke in UK politics. Given the number of NZ voters who have spent time in the UK or even just follow the news from a distance, he'd be well advised to drop it. (But judging by many of his utterances, he doesn't like taking advice).

              Strong and stable – Wikipedia

      • Patricia Bremner 1.1.3
        14 November 2023 at 12:40 pm

        Tony "Priceless".devillaugh

      • mary_a 1.1.4
        14 November 2023 at 3:07 pm

        OMG. Thanks for this Tony. Can't stop laughingyeslaugh

    • ianmac 1.3
      14 November 2023 at 9:44 am

      King Christopher the Great. (His view anyway.)

  2. Ad 2
    14 November 2023 at 8:44 am

    At some point the Opposition will have to wake up and be an Opposition.

    While we're waiting for Labour to finally move off the throne, maybe the Greens and Maori Party could do the job they were just voted to do.

    • Tiger Mountain 2.1
      14 November 2023 at 9:38 am

      Greens and Te Pāti Māori are likely to be the main opposition force in this Parliamentary term unless NZ Labour finally retire Rogernomics…(some of us live in hope I guess…) but yes Greens and TPM certainly need to get moving as do the NZCTU and other NGOs.

      The hiatus effectively lets the Natzos determine the narrative yet again as they are prone to.

      • Stephen D 2.1.1
        14 November 2023 at 2:43 pm

        If we want Labour to move away from the neo liberal paradigm, get involved.

        Join your local LEC, start drafting remits to submit to yoir local conference.Not everything in Labour is top down. If the flax roots overwhelmingly want to nationalise infrastructure, (for example) the Policy Council must listen.

  3. Sandra Le Cron 3
    14 November 2023 at 8:55 am

    The Opposition cannot be in Opposition until they are in Opposition!.

    • Ad 3.1
      14 November 2023 at 9:07 am

      That is true of Labour.

      Anyone else it's a free hit.

      • Sanctuary 3.1.1
        14 November 2023 at 9:59 am

        The MSM response to the cone of silence from Luxon though hasn't been to report on TPM or the Greens or even remark on the apparent insouciance of corporate guy Luxon to democratic accountability – it's been to lazily carry on it's jihad against Labour's now largely irrelevant ex-ministers.

        This fits with the wider MSM media pattern in NZ – a rump, decimated and intellectually uncurious press corps with a lazy ambient acceptance of right wing rule combined with a bullying policing of the opposition fueled by press releases from from right wing propaganda fronts like the TPU.

    • Thinker 3.2
      14 November 2023 at 11:33 am
      1. I never thought for one minute people could find more hilarious clips but they are all better than mine… laugh

      2. Sandra L-C comment is true, but to us peasants it's all about who wone how many seats. In a more formal way, it's about who took what oath. The coalition of chaos are no more the government than the left 3 parties are the opposition. This is because Luxon (as leader of the biggest-polling party) needs to go to the Governor-General with a coalition agreement, upon which the GG then "…makes it so…". So, in a formal sense, Labour is the nearest thing to a government we have at the moment, although they can't go making decisions that would bind the incoming government, to a great extent.

      3. Tiger Mountain, you're absolutely right, because in 2026, Labour hopes to be where National is at the moment. Luxon's put many feet in his mouth by promising everything to everybody and I think his "Get out of jail free card" will be that he had to make some compromises to get the coalition over the line. Normally, that would work, but Luxon's talked up his negotiating skills so much that I think many National voters expect a National govrernment, with a few crumbs thrown to NZF and ACT in order to get their support for a coalition.

      So, going back to your point, Tiger Mountain, the last thing Labour wants to be guilty of is making important promises that it then has to reneg on (which I think is where Luxon has put National).

      4. Maybe or maybe not the media is right-wing friendly, but primarily it is still the media. If it can't create stories about good news, it will slowly start to write about whatever Luxon is doing. Think of it like a merry-go-round. The media writes stories that it things will sell papers (for example). In other words, it writes what it thinks people think because people will fork out money to read news that supports their own point of view. If/as people become dissatisfied with the incoming coalition, the medial will shift and write those stories, instead.

      5. If I was Hipkins/Labour, today I would be publicly offering to lead a delegation to APEC, and take along someone from the incoming government. By virtue of his oath, Hipkins can sign off on things (I think) but would need to discuss such decisions with someone from the incoming government.

      If I was Luxon, I would prefer no-one goes to APEC than to send a representative from the caretaking government. If no-one goes, APEC delegates would soon forget about little old NZ, but if Hipkins goes, the delegates will be constantly reminded that the results came out a while back and Luxon hasn't reached a consensus yet.

      However, for the sake of New Zealand (politics aside) I think it's important that someone represents NZ at such an important occasion. I don't agree that "…hey, there'll be other APECs". An offer from Labour today would leave National between a rock and hard place. Send Labour or send nobody, neither of which is a good outcome.

  4. tsmithfield 4
    14 November 2023 at 9:53 am

    Call me a right wing optimist looking at things through rose coloured glasses if you like.

    But I think it is a good think for negotiations in any setting to be hard fought rather than easy. I think negotiations that are hard fought tend to be more sustainable in the long run. There are several reasons for this. Firstly, if negotiations are easy, then either party may feel they could have done better. Whereas in hard fought negotiations, parties may believe they have wrung as much out of the process as they can.

    And, secondly, if negotiations are easy, then there has been a lot less commitment by either party to the negotiations. On the other hand, where both sides have invested a lot of time and effort in the negotiation process, they are less likely to walk away because their commitment has been a lot higher through the process.

    I think we saw this in the result after Labour's first term in that the relationship lasted the full term. Likewise, when my wife was selling real estate, the deals we worried about most were the easy ones, because they were more likely to collapse whereas the hard fought deals tended to settle.

    So, in the case of the current negotiations, from a right wing perspecitive it is probably a good thing if the negotiations are hard fought. Because then all parties will think they got the best deal they could, and they will be a lot more committed to the relationship going forward.

    From a left wing perspective the best outcome would likely be a quick and easy deal because those deals may fall apart just as easily.

  5. ianmac 5
    14 November 2023 at 10:00 am

    The Better Public Media has been ruled a Charity by the Court.

    Some of the things that they advocate for resonate for me.

    It believes well-funded public media – be it news, drama or documentary – not reliant on ratings or clicks, would lead to greater social cohesion.

    “For example, people often think the wider world beyond their suburb is unsafe because of exaggerated crime coverage in the news,” Thomas said.

    “If the only news media we have is shallow and ignores policies to focus on 'the horse race', then politicians who want to be elected will tailor their messages accordingly.

    “There are examples of this from the election such as National’s bootcamp policy and Labour’s GST on food policy. Both policies are proven to be ineffective but in a 30-second soundbite they resonate. I really think that is a terrible way for decisions to be made.”

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/advocating-for-stronger-public-media-a-charitable-cause-court-rules?utm_source=Newsroom&utm_campaign=507cd68e07-Daily_Briefing+14.11.2023&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-507cd68e07-95522477&mc_cid=507cd68e07&mc_eid=88a3081e75

    • Adrian 5.1
      14 November 2023 at 1:24 pm

      Couldnt agree more Ian, in the 70s my old old man used to complain about all the murders of which in reality there were less than previous decades . My reasoning to him was that in the 50s he got the 2Minute Silence also known as the Marlborough Express which didn't even have a front page, that was all ads, but the murders were a week old in a small column on maybe the 3rd page, whereas even in the 70s they were first item on the 6)Çlock News delivered to his own lounge so it just looked as though there were. Now, videographers do more kilometres than RamRaiders tearing around Auckland following them to record it all.

  6. Sanctuary 6
    14 November 2023 at 10:15 am

    According to Simon Wilson in the (paywalled) Herald today, Luxon "..should establish a high-powered Fix Auckland Group, with direct access to the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet…"

    Ah yes, FAG. Groundswell might find the name appropriate. In any event, obviously their first move would be to restore car parks on K road.

    • Descendant Of Smith 6.1
      14 November 2023 at 4:28 pm

      But but but the supercity was supposed to fix all Auckland's problems……….

      Anyway look forward to Groundswell's FonTerror banners as they protest their green policies.

      Fonterra says its milk will be 30% greener in seven years – by encouraging farmers to plant trees, treat cow pats and introduce methane-cutting tools.

      The announcement is the first time the co-op, the country’s biggest emitter, has asked its farmers to take steps to reduce emissions.

      The company is under pressure to reduce the greenhouse footprint of its dairy, because its biggest customers, including Nestlé and Danone, have introduced science-led climate goals.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133258547/fonterra-pledges-to-make-milk-production-30-greener-by-2030

      • gsays 6.1.1
        14 November 2023 at 4:53 pm

        In respect to treating cow pats, an obvious solution is dung beetles.

        Here's a few minutes of a local effort (Sth Wairarapa).

  7. tc 7
    14 November 2023 at 11:10 am

    Across the ditch ANZ CEO Shayne Shayne Elliott says the Australian dream of home ownership “has become the preserve of the rich" in The Australian.

    Here ANZ just increased profit by 10% with an incoming govt that has policies that will make home ownership less affordable than it is now.

    Interesting times for the banks who see a market in decline that they've plundered for all it's worth.

  8. Chris 8
    14 November 2023 at 11:14 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301007984/tova-obrien-christopher-luxons-inexperience-costs-him-international-power-play

    Mr Merger and Aquisitions' insistence on telling us about his need for a strong and stable government's going to provide some wonderful responses after the coalition's up and running. Even if it doesn't collapse midway through, anything involving Winston Peters and David Seymour's never going to be strong and stable. Whoever came up with Luxon's meme surely didn't envisage the precise outcome of the election, but you'd at least think he'd stop trotting it out at every opportunity.

    • bwaghorn 8.1
      14 November 2023 at 12:07 pm

      I wonder if luxon has ever beaten a hostile take over by 2 smaller companies off !

      • Patricia Bremner 8.1.1
        14 November 2023 at 12:49 pm

        bwaghorn, ‘ Hostile takeover by two smaller companies" lol

        Luxon thought he was in control "till he wasn't.devil Back to the Market?

        • bwaghorn 8.1.1.1
          14 November 2023 at 4:43 pm

          I don't think luxons clever enough to manage Winston, it'll either be a disaster 3 years or Winston will get alot of nzf policy done.

    • tc 8.2
      14 November 2023 at 2:30 pm

      There's at least 3 more years of scripted slogans unless he gets rolled by his more ambitious colleagues.

      He’s a tad loose off the cuff with comments like bottom feeders so he'll likely stick to the safety rails a script offers.

      • Johnr 8.2.1
        14 November 2023 at 3:39 pm

        I hear that spud head is not going to Apec. Lucky Apec. The absence of a grinning gargoyle would be a plus

    • Ad 8.3
      17 November 2023 at 9:27 am

      Crikey Tova

  9. Tricledrown 9
    14 November 2023 at 12:58 pm

    Luxon has no one to blame but himself reaching out to NZ first increased their popularity and reduced Nationals popularity.Now by signaling he wants to be at Apec Luxon set himself up to be made a fool of twice.Now he is saying low and middle income earners will get tax cuts that's signaling that Nationals tax cuts are being re-written. More dead rats to swallow while Winston willows in Luxon's back tracking ,oh I'm the best negotiator (Trump like)our bottom line will not be compromised a lot of walking back for Luxon and still no govt.This is 1996 all over again Peter's is making Luxon squirm .Luxon has only one other choice go to the electorate again and that will not be popular as all the time wasted.

  10. SPC 10
    14 November 2023 at 4:22 pm

    Elders of Tik Tok

    Three blind mice

    Too many to

    make the clock

    run on time

    One has years of experience in politics and forming government and yet the man who would bring his managerial competence to government did not know him.

    And the man who did, but who has never formed a coalition government in all his years as an MP, thought that he could instruct another party’s leader to meet his terms for coalition or require consent to every government action (this before his party polling numbers halved and enabled the ultimate triumph of the one who plays his hand after the votes are all counted).

    So it has come to this.

    Tick tock.

    Bird of the century results are coming.

    US slang. flipping the bird : to make an offensive gesture at (someone) by pointing the middle finger upward while keeping the other fingers folded down.

  12. Eco Maori 12
    16 November 2023 at 7:29 am

    Hippy tutai

  14. Eco Maori 14
    16 November 2023 at 9:22 am

    All IO gifts are special to me ie

    https://youtu.be/jZHcuKeau8M?si=X8IIQyAEFNZIAK4d