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Open mike 14/06/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 14th, 2012 - 71 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

71 comments on “Open mike 14/06/2012 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    All roads lead to Rotorua in August.

    Stop the thieves! Stop the polluters! Stop climate change! Stop the poisoners of the land the sea and the air!

    Stop the conference of the wealthy environmental vandals being held in Rotorua.


    Convince the attendees at this conference of our deep determination to stop their mines, their coal and oil fracking, their deep sea oil drilling. Convince them, that despite the assurances, that they have received from industry and government leaders;

    That – “IT IS NOT A DONE DEAL”

    Become part of a large powerful and effective protest that gives this rich corporate scum, some pause for thought.
    Join with others to peacefully swamp their conference with your numbers. Force the issue of climate change and pollution on to their money grubbing agenda. Make the self centred rich and powerful delegates attending this conference, in their bubble of luxury and privilege, confront the real world consequences of their actions. Make sure that whatever they do, the one thing they can’t do, is, ignore you, and all your brothers and sisters.

    The holding of this conference in the heart of the North Island, almost perfectly triangulated between those opposed to fracking in the West, to those opposed to deep sea mining in the East, to those opposed to mining in the North. And midway between two of the biggest population centres in the country, is very auspicious, potentially allowing us to rally the very biggest numbers possible

    [lprent: removed the first version of this as it looked like a near dup. ]

  2. Logie97 2

    If Collins is seeking a culture change at ACC, is she not “dissing” Nick Smith. We know that he is history, but if he feels that his reputation is being further smeared, one can assume that the knives will be out and any skeletons in cupboards may be revealed … watch this space.

    • Carol 2.1

      Nick Smith, today with a weak attempt to continue to undermine Pullar, meanwhile Hague raises an important question and Little tells it like it is:


      “We need to reverse this culture of disentitlement that’s taken hold since 2009 and with those key players – [former ACC minister] Nick Smith, John Judge and Ralph Stewart – gone we’ve got the environment to do that.”

      Mr Hague said there were serious questions Mrs Collins needed to answer about her role in the Bronwyn Pullar affair.

      But Labour’s ACC spokesman, Andrew Little, said Mrs Collins should be the next to go as Mr Stewart’s resignation confirmed the depth of the crisis.

      “It is an absolute disgrace, and it is entirely the responsibility of that Government”, he told the House, and accused Mrs Collins and Dr Smith as her predecessor of driving ACC “into the ground”.

      Mr Little said ACC now needed a minister who was focused on the needs of ACC claimants rather than on the Government’s “tawdry, nasty, filthy little strategy of trying to fleece people and get people to lose their entitlements”.
      Dr Smith told Newstalk ZB opposition and media views on Ms Pullar had been contradictory – while two months ago people were saying she was a villain, she was now being portrayed as a hero.

      “And either of those things are true. Bronwyn is a sad case of a very capable person who’s had an accident and actually well illustrates the dilemma for many New Zealanders involved in ACC as to what is the appropriate time of rehabilitation,” he said.

      So Nick Smith is actually implying there should be a cut off point for ACC support, regardless of whether there is a continuing need for rehabilitation? Smith then is actually continuing to support the nasty policy of disentitlement?

      And the public attitude to Pullar has changed as more information has been made public. What’s contradictory about that?

      • Campbell Larsen 2.1.1

        What astounded me was the headline – or more accurately headlie:

        “Labour: Stop filthy fleecing ACC claimants”

        and the actual quote:

        Mr Little said ACC now needed a minister who was focused on the needs of ACC claimants rather than on the Government’s “tawdry, nasty, filthy little strategy of trying to fleece people and get people to lose their entitlements”.

        It seems there is a new definition of headline – it should now mean exactly the opposite of what is being said in the article….

        • Carol

          Hmmm. Well, at best it could be seen as ambiguous. ie using headline logic it could mean Labour; stop filthy fleecing of ACC claimants

          But its not a good headline because of how it can mislead.

        • Fortran

          Little has a nasty way of letting his mouth move before thinking. I would expect better.

        • Treetop

          Stop filthy fleecing ACC clinicians is the headline I want to see. These gravy train clinicians are paid very well. I would like to see a detailed list on what they charge.

    • gareth 2.2

      I was listening to ZB on the way to work this morning. Hosking interviewed both an expert and Collins with regards to ACC. He had a real open up to competition agenda in regards to his questioning. Both were adamant that ACC is a world best workers compensation system and both cited research that said as much. (I was surprised to a degree that Judith Collins seems to accept that there is nothing to again from competition) Yet still Hosking was banging on about competition being the way forward in summing up. The guys either got a commercial interest or he’s an idiot.

      I remember last time it opened up my workplace went with a private outfit, a colleague working in and around flower beds was stung in the eye by a bee with obvious negative effects. The work place insurer tried to say it wasn’t work related so it was ACC’s responsibility while ACC quite rightly said that it was a workplace injury and not their problem. The poor guy was in limbo with medical care and in the end the employer put chasing the insurance in the too hard basket and just paid out of their own pocket.
      Be dammed if we should go back to that….

      • vto 2.2.1

        Hey gareth, if people really to find out what it is like dealing with insurers come down to Christchurch – you have an entire city full of people with direct and applicable experience. In this situation, why would people want to even go near private insurers when they are more expensive and absolute c#@*s to deal with.

        And yep Hosking always fills his interviews with his own personal small-brain ideologies.

        • Treetop

          Just after 9 am this morning on RNZ a chap from EQC was on. Insurance and EQC problems were discussed.

      • Vicky32 2.2.2

        , a colleague working in and around flower beds was stung in the eye by a bee with obvious negative effects

        Euuww, poor guy! What a terrible farce he went through…

    • ianmac 2.3

      Nick Smith gave a speech during the snap debate over ACC yesterday. He looked to be a broken sad man. I suppose its a Reap what ye sow. Will the policy change under Collins or will it be the same with new clothing?
      Collins did front for Campbell Live last night and her smile became very very strained. Had she not been on TV I think her Devil Eyes would have shrivelled Campbell.

  3. Chris Nelderini takes on the oil Polyannas and wins convincingly.

    The future of oil prices

    “In reality, despite the technological achievements that have enabled production from these difficult resources, the world is losing the race against the depletion of mature conventional oil fields. And the pace of that depletion is accelerating: it’s now an estimated 5 to 6 percent per year for OPEC, and 8 to 9 percent for non-OPEC. Unconventional oil cannot compensate for a drag of that magnitude for very long.

    Further, even if the U.S. were to follow the path to so-called energy independence, it would likely cut the lifespan of our remaining oil in half, leaving us to struggle for decades afterward with greatly diminished domestic production at the very time when global oil exports are declining fastest and becoming intolerably expensive.

    We also know that the shift to unconventional oil has moved up the floor of oil prices to around $85 a barrel, which I estimated to be the marginal average cost of profitable production worldwide. A report from Bernstein Research, covered in May by the ever-capable Kate Mackenzie for the Financial Times, suggested that the real floor was even higher at around $92 a barrel in 2011, on its way to $100 a barrel this year. This fits with the stated objective of OPEC members to defend a $100 price target.

    But there is also a ceiling around $125 a barrel for the global Brent benchmark (roughly equivalent to $105 for the U.S. benchmark, West Texas Intermediate). This is why world oil prices have been bouncing around the “narrow ledge” between that floor and ceiling since the beginning of 2011, as shown in the following chart.”


  4. Jim Nald 4

    Coming to you next from this useless lot in government:
    more of NZ’s sovereignty to be for sale

    Leaked draft of trade deal exposes risks – professor

    • Salsy 4.1

      Leaked documents show New Zealand has agreed to let foreign investors sue the Government in overseas courts. The draft text of the TransPacific Partnership shows Australia has refused to sign up to that part of the deal.

      Holy shit, we should be rioting..

      • Carol 4.1.1

        Good on Kelsey for keeping on this case. Would this deal have an impact on any attempt to reverse NAct’s up-coming asset sales legislation?

        It contained a section on investor-state disputes allowing investors to claim damages against Governments in special tribunals if their investments are impaired by Government action.

      • ad 4.1.2

        I think a point of it is to ensure that a signatory can’t do an Argentina – just renationalise an asset and not compensate at all.

        There’s probably a few United Nations human rights and weapons conventions I would want the US to sign up to first before agreeing to that.

      • vto 4.1.3

        I agree we should be rioting. Couple things..

        Firstly, this government does not have the authority to enter into such an arrangement with these sorts of provisions as it affects the value of our vote. It goes to the heart of our democracy and more than a skinny arse one-seat majority is required for such changes under our constitutional arrangements. Key is acting ultra vires on this.

        Secondly, if investors want to get compensation in the event that the NZ govt changes the rules and that negatively affects the value of their investment, then the NZ govt must, in the exact same manner, get the ability to claim monetary value from the investors when the NZ govt changes the rules and that positively affects the value of their investment.

        How can either of these points be wrong?

        • vto

          And actually, thirdly, does that mean that domestic investors also get the right to sue the government in the event that the rules are changed and that affects the value of their investment? Or does it only apply to foreign investors?

          For fucks sake;;;;

          1. Destroy the value of our vote.

          2. Allow investors to sue the government but not the government to sue investors.

          3. These benefits only apply to foreigners.

          The hapless kiwi – bottom of the heap eating scraps and doing all the cleaning up. Fuck them.

          What fucking planet are these muppets on?

          • James N

            The Canadian experience is salutory.


            The prevention by big drug companies of the Canadian manufacture of generic drugs (what price Pharmac?); the enforcement of toxic chemical use once the teeth had been removed from Canadian law; and in a related comment the trashing of the Ecuadorian environment by Chevron after overturning the rulings of the Ecuadorian courts.

            • prism

              Wasn’t there a problem with the trade agreement Canada-USA to do with Canada trying to conserve oil or coal to ensure future supply and a US company wanted to access and took them to Court?

    • Draco T Bastard 4.2

      “We actually want to attract foreign investment into New Zealand to exploit some of the natural resources New Zealand has because we want this country to grow faster. We want better jobs and we want to ensure our grandchildren can make a future for ourselves.”

      Which a) contradicts his stated stance on not agreeing to deals that inhibit the NZ government and b) isn’t needed anyway. If the government really wanted to develop NZs economy then they would be developing those resources themselves and not turning NZers into serfs for foreign owners through FDI.

    • muzza 4.3

      “We actually want to attract foreign investment into New Zealand to exploit some of the natural resources New Zealand has because we want this country to grow faster. We want better jobs and we want to ensure our grandchildren can make a future for ourselves”

      — Tim, use of the words “exploit”, and “grow faster”, are a give away….PS – How will the TPPA provide “better jobs” Tim…

      Transparent stuff indeed!

  5. Olwyn 5

    Jane Kelsey has seen a draft of the TPP agreement, in which NZ has signed up to investors being able to sue the government if they consider that their investments are impaired by government action. Australia has objected to this one. According to Kelsey “the draft text should ”worry the heck out of Labour” if it was serious about introducing taxes on capital gains or speculative financial flows.”


    This came up on Morning Report as well, which I cannot link because I am not sure how, with Russel Norman challenging it, and Tim Groser replying. Groser attempted to reassure by saying that it would not interfere with health measures, for example, which reminded me of the old chicken ads in which they assured the viewer that “our chickens are not given hormones” with no mention of antibiotics. A big concern, one would think, along with those listed by Kelsey, would be unionisation and workers’ rights, which could well be seen to “impair” some corporates’ investment.

  6. Robespierre 6

    Dear Standard,

    The amount of money spent by Key – after effectively cutting a full-time teacher from every NZ school – so he could have tea with the Queen, scones with the Camerons, and sacher torte with Angela would be enough to fund a Euro Masterchef Trifle for every school kid in Tamaki Makarau on Waitangi Day .

    Sorry, Chef ..

    • mike e 6.1

      R with all that food he could become a Contestant on New Zealands Biggest Looser

  7. Jim Nald 8

    Good to hear our Aussie mates have taste and standard re Paul Henry

    ‘In the Toilet’

    Just one quick word of suggestion to the Aussies:


    • shorts 8.1

      nooooo he’ll end uu back here on some primetime spot

      please do well in aussie paul and never return to these shores

    • Dr Terry 8.2

      Can Henry no longer think up anything despicable enough to say? Or is he running scared?

  8. dd 10

    What’s happened to john banks?

    I had an idea. It wouldn’t be that hard to find a really good journalist and pay them through a donation system to go looking for the bigger/more important stories?

  9. gareth 11

    A question around super,

    If we progressively raise the age to make it more affordable long term won’t we further disadvantage people who work in demanding labour type roles? I haven’t researched this but surely people carrying out manual labour roles have a shorter work life/ overall life expectancy? As they become unable to work in such roles will they just end up on the unemployment or sickness benefits and once they do make the age for super they will draw it for less time than say someone who is in a more privileged position with top notch healthcare and liable to have a much longer working life and expectancy.

    As an alternative would we be better off if we said you can’t receive super and work full time? In my relatively short working life I have had @30 direct workmates of those 6 have received super while working.And/or we start means testing it, I can’t see why we pay super to people with large amounts of cash in the bank who earn enough interest to take care of themselves in relative comfort. We could have some kind of sliding system much like the way Working for Families works. In that the greater your income stream the lower the super payment.
    We could set the bar pretty high and still save a packet. I realise their will be people who try to scam the system but surely such holes could be closed through good legislation.
    While I’m at we could also trim the top 10% off working for families without serious effect and put that money towards it.

    Doable? Better? Fairer?

    • bad12 11.1

      Would we not be better to just set taxation rates so as to make Universal Superannuation affordable at any given time,

      This is a rich country at present the spend on the pension is 8% while comparable country’s spend is at 11% and if after every collapse of confidence and loss of capital as the system self destructs under the weight of its own bullshit we were to move the age of entitlement out by a further 2 years then my estimation is that by 2050 the age of entitlement will have become 80 and rising,

      I tend to agree with your view about those who continue to work while collecting a ‘retirement’ income and have less of a problem with changing this aspect of the entitlement rather than simply addressing the structural faults in the monetarist system we at present slave under by making the entitlement even more un-attainable…

    • Vicky32 11.2

      As an alternative would we be better off if we said you can’t receive super and work full time? In my relatively short working life I have had @30 direct workmates of those 6 have received super while working.And/or we start means testing it, I can’t see why we pay super to people with large amounts of cash in the bank who earn enough interest to take care of themselves in relative comfort. We could have some kind of sliding system much like the way Working for Families works. In that the greater your income stream the lower the super payment.

      That (unless I am remembering wrongly) was as it used to be! I don’t remember exactly when, but why it changed is beyond me to understand.

  10. deuto 13

    Having heard/seen nothing in the media (or here) re Cunliffe’s speech on Monday at Kensington Swann, I found it in full on the Tumeke website this morning – and have now found a link to it through Google on the Labour Party website:


    From a quick read, another excellent speech from Cunliffe focusing on the lessons to be learnt from the Great Depression and their application to the current situation, put in simple terms and taking into account the audience it was being delivered to.

    • vto 13.1

      That’s a good speech and I particularly like the way Cunliffe called Key and cronies corrupt and in cahoots with business.

    • insider 13.2

      And cunliffes answer to our woes is… Plant trees, and lots of them.

      I too thought it odd it has received no AirPlay on red alert or here. Sharers iron grip asserting its control?

    • Socialist Paddy 13.3

      Wow, a politician actually analyzing things and saying it the way it is.  And no sugar coating.

      Brave speech.

      Cunliffe wants to regulate financial markets, he wants us to keep and build our assets, he wants to provide work for everyone, and he wants the state to be smart and to invest in education and research. 

      He is even talking about a Tobin tax.

      He definately does not want to leave our future to the market and he makes a pretty compelling case against doing so.

      No wonder the right wing hate him so much.

      • Draco T Bastard 13.3.1

        He made all the right noises but the underlying message is just more of the same. More capitalism, more production, more exports – which is not a path to wealth or sustainability.

  11. bad12 14

    Thanks National, Maori party, and,Hone for building a whole new industry,(albeit an illegal one),with the rack raising and revenue gathering of the tobacco taxes,

    A small piece in the Herald yesterday, (sorry I’m hopeless at linking back to them), and another last week highlight the recent conviction of both a Motueka man and a Northland man for producing a couple of million bucks of tobacco products, the Motueka man being the grower and the Northland man being the ‘manufacturer’,

    Thats just the first convictions after the stupid ‘we are saving your life’ tobacco tax rises and will be the tip of the ice berg of the new burgeoning tobacco black-market brought to you by National/Maori/Mana, which the Treasury in its budget advice to the Minister while laughing up its sleeve describing such revenue gathering from tobacco as an excellent means of taxation as all the participants in the product being taxed are ‘addicted’ and so the tax take is guaranteed,

    The cost to the Health budget of 350 million dollars a year has now been far out-stripped by the actual tax collected off of the addicted which has now become an obscene 1.7 billion dollars a year which appears to not only be funding Turia’s personal little slush fund, “Whanauora’ but also appears to be funding to the tune of over a billion bucks a year other parts of the general Government spend,

    Amusingly Tariana and Hone ‘walking the walk, and, ‘saving the lives of their people’ by continually calling for the ‘addicted’ to suffer further tax rises are doing far more damage to those individuals in the lower economic decile (who’s votes keep those two’s bums in the leather seats of the Parliament), to the health of ‘their people’ as they sacrifice dietary requirements for the addiction being out-rageously over-taxed…

    • Vicky32 14.1

      Amusingly Tariana and Hone ‘walking the walk, and, ‘saving the lives of their people’ by continually calling for the ‘addicted’ to suffer further tax rises are doing far more damage to those individuals in the lower economic decile (who’s votes keep those two’s bums in the leather seats of the Parliament), to the health of ‘their people’ as they sacrifice dietary requirements for the addiction being out-rageously over-taxed…

      Seconded! 🙂

  12. Draco T Bastard 15

    Natural Standards (video)

    • prism 15.1

      I seem to have a strange desire to go out and buy a Toyota after looking at the video.

  13. Carol 16

    Whoopsie…. that politician got amnesia! Not a good look, Judith!

    • yeshe 16.1

      Are you referring to the lie reported on TV3 News ?? She did tell some whoppas to Andrew Little in the House this afternoon it would seem …..

      • Carol 16.1.1

        Yes, TV3 tonight.

        First the amnesia, then the dodgy replies when her memory miraculously returned in the House today.


        But she could recall today.

        “I guess she’s been under a little bit of pressure and her memory has been a little faulty under those circumstances,” Green MP Kevin Hague says.

        A police statement has raised fresh doubts about Collins’ claims, showing yes ACC did go to the police straight away on the Tuesday, but the extortion complaint against Ms Boag and Ms Pullar wasn’t lodged until three days later meaning there was time for her to discuss it with the ACC bosses, as alleged by the Opposition. The statement said:

        • mike e

          Collins crushed by her own lies.
          can’t get anything right even when trying to crush 1 car she got that wrong.
          Off to the back benchs.

  14. gobsmacked 17

    Latest opinion poll from Roy Morgan:


    Basically no change, Nats up but partners down, Greens and Labour same, all margin of error stuff.

    The commentary from Gary Morgan is hilariously bad … totally missing the last 2 weeks of news!

  15. How many Christchurch families living in broken houses (waiting for EQC and the insurers to extract heads from arses) can we fit into one famous Parnell residence?
    I suggest a respite exchange programme where the Chch families are evacuated to the Key house. The Key family move into a home of one of the evacuated families – for a month. After the month that family returns and the Keys move into another house of a family recently sent to Auckland for R & R.
    Apparently there’s a property in Dipton that is not being used that people can stay in.
    And what about all those state houses we own. I mean the ones Ministers of the Crown live in. They also could be used to house Ch-ch families for R & R.
    The ministers, being in public service for the good of all New Zealanders, would only be too happy to surrender their accommodation.
    However, the Ministers would be not be given a housing allowance to find new accommodation as austerity measures are in place because we “do not want to become like Greece” and because of the “mess we inherited from nine years of Labour”.
    But not to worry, Ministers will be encouraged to use the tax breaks they received as high income earners to pay for their new accommodation.
    They could also, when required to be in Wellington, could “double-bunk” in shipping containers or, better still, move into the English household (after all we pay for it).

  16. captain hook 19

    the trouble with national is that they all watch the godfather, and the sopranos, annd boardwalk empire and kweewee is so far gone that he thinks he is al pacino, bruce willis and whats his name all wrapped up in one.
    steve joyce just looks like woody woodpecker on ibogaine.

  17. Logie97 20

    Ideal class size – pass it on

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