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Open Mike 15/06/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 15th, 2018 - 166 comments
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166 comments on “Open Mike 15/06/2018 ”

  1. millsy 1

    Baby coming this weekend?

  2. Rosemary McDonald 2

    There’s comfort in the fact that some of us, arguably those most desperate for a change of government in 2017, have been constrained in our celebrations over the Coalition.

    I guess wherever one finds politicians one can expect a certain percentage of rampant egomaniacs. A pity the loudest limelighters are in the same minor party.

    Why oh why can’t they just say their piece then STFU? But no, they have to bang on and on and call in the reinforcements and give the single digit salute to their political leader from the major Coalition party.

    In the meantime…the other minor party in the Coalition seems more than content to set aside their basic policies and confirm and cooperate when I suspect a large percentage of the population would be supportive of a revolt over increased water bottling.


    • DB 2.1

      How cynical have I become that I recognise your acronym within seconds of encountering it.

      (same smiles different dials)

      Have we all lost the ability to work with one another? The left and right should be keeping each other honest, actually supporting each others graduation toward maturity in this regard. This childish bickering 24/7 and gleeful propagation of sound bites where politicians ‘own’ each other…

      MSM, amateur media (you, me, we), all doing it. Divide divide divide.

      As for Greens having to be seen to be different – just why? Be seen to be doing things – not wearing a different shirt. Children. This ‘dealing with reality’ is a good look. It is apt to note the system is broken from within and learn as you go just what is broken where and how we might find better alternatives. In the meantime the world turns.

      Western society and business is (was) based on basic trust. Seems we were sadly mistaken in giving business the rope in order to hang us all. But I prefer to have some sense of trust in the decency of people. When the shit hits the fan real people are all over it. It’s just this political/business class who seem incapable of rejoining society preferring the divide and pillage technique. The fact they pull the strings is the real reason everything’s seemingly turned to shit.

      It’s a fine mess. I got a Laurel and Hardy framed picture yesterday. Sitting in one of their atypically destroyed hotel rooms “Another Fine Mess”.

      Yes, yes it is.

      • Antoine 2.1.1

        She means same shit different day, surely

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2

        Western society and business is (was) based on basic trust.

        That’s what we like to tell ourselves despite all the evidence that it’s actually based upon a few people ripping everyone else off. Another example from the Western Leader:

        New Zealand based water bottlers are cashing in on picturesque Southern Alps landscapes, even if they’re based nowhere near them, the Beverage Council says.

        Basically, they’re putting a picture of the Southern Alps on the merchandise and thus implying that it comes from that area when it isn’t.

        Basically, the normal deception that business has been engaging in since forever.

    • mauī 3.1

      Strange the lack of personal responsibility in the rural conservative vote considering what they bang on about half the time.

    • Matiri 3.2

      Lloyd Downing was the organiser of that rally under the Mega Cow in Morrinsville in September. Pops up again in that RNZ interview.

    • Herodotus 3.3

      From you view of the “farmers” attitude
      RATM has the same attitude BUT from the opposite perspective

    • John up North 3.4

      My first impression “fucken farmers”

      What ever happened to farmers being salt of the earth community minded? The turkey from Cheviot was whingeing that a govt dept didn’t break the privacy act to tell him about his neighbors possible (later proved positive) infection. Why didn’t his neighbor call him directly (and others around him) to advise there was some concern and to take appropriate precautions???

      Bad enough the previous government let this pot boil over, now the farmers are refusing to tell where the off button is!

      Maybe those that refuse to co-operate should lose the support of the community/country and have compensation declined if found to have lied/withheld evidence, especially those that have purchased animals from the ground zero farm and will not contact MPI of the fact.

      This behavior is can only increase the cost of eradication or end with the disease becoming entrenched, with a large part of the cost being foist upon the public purse.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.5

      Can’t say that I’m surprised. All farmers in this country seem to be greedy, ignorant schmucks who think far too much of themselves.

      Farmer Lloyd Downing told our reporter Kate Gudsell that there were issues with Fonterra, but it’s was the farmers’ business, not Shane Jones’.

      When Fonterra exists due to specific legislation then it is actually everyone’s business. We need to be sure that the legislation is working and it obviously isn’t and thus needs changing. Repealing it and thus eliminating Fonterra may be the best option.

  3. OnceWasTim 4

    Ae. Apparently representatives of an elected government have no right to comment on how companies or ‘bizzniss’ should operate.
    Rules and regulations must be applied selectively.
    Bad enough those elected representatives already have an out when it suits (i.e. “I can’t comment on operational matter” – though what the definition of ‘operational’ is can be as fluid as they like)

  4. Nick 5

    NZH… “Health Minister David Clark has tried to gag public servants, appearing to offer them jobs in return for their silence, National’s MP for Botany Jami-Lee Ross said”……. As soon as I read Jamie Lee Ross, I realized I was suckered by the headline.

    • James 5.1

      Perhaps listen to the voicemail. He most certainly sounds like that was exactly what he was doing.

    • Puckish Rogue 5.2


      Ok so trying to keep my own personal opinions it is, at first viewing, not a good look so it’ll be interesting to see how Winston and the media play this but maybe there’ll be more information that can shed some light on this

      • alwyn 5.2.1

        There are only two options that I think are possible.

        The most likely one is that Winston will simply announce something like
        “Listen sunshine. Nothing to see here. Time to move on”. The media will then obey him. I didn’t hear a single word on Morning Report about the matter.

        The other would be something that will only occur in the unlikely event that Winston wanted Minister of Health for one of his own MPs. In that case Clark will be gone by lunchtime.

        I’d put my money on the first option.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Would be interesting to see what the reaction would be if it was a National minister instead

          • alwyn

            The Guillotine would already have been installed in the forecourt of Parliament.
            The tumbril would be moving toward it with the victim in the back.
            All the female Labour and Green MPs would be sitting there with their knitting needles, (and their teeth), clacking.
            David Clark, putting on his most stony Presbyterian glare would be condemning the prisoner.
            The execution would be carried out at midday.

            Amazing that a man of the cloth like David could be guilty of such mortal sins isn’t it? I see why he was defrocked.

            • Puckish Rogue

              Exactly, there’d be calls for resignations at the very least however while I think it sounds extremely dodgy I’m still wanting to not rush to judgement just yet

              But and its a very big but I think its more proof, if proof was needed, just how unprepared the COL is for being in charge

              My biggest hope is that the COL don’t do too much permanent damage before they’re replaced

              • In Vino

                Just to indicate what waffle you two are writing, I distinctly recall a nice, easy interview of Lee Ross by Guyon E on RNZ between 8.30 and 9.00am.
                But none so deaf as those who do not wish to hear, huh?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Isn’t anyone from the left just the slightest bit concerned about just how incompetent some of the COLs ministers appear to be

                  It seems like everyone in the COL is in a race to see how much incompetence the NZ public will endure…as an example no ones mentioned Clare Curren for days because of so many new entrants

                  Hell at this point I’d agree to Helen Clark and Michael Cullen returning to take over

                  Clare Curren
                  Phil Twyford
                  Andrew Little
                  Megan Woods
                  Chris Hipkins
                  Kelvin Davis
                  David Clark
                  Stuart Nash

                  Thats a lot of Labour ministers that recently have been made to look arrogant, incompetent or both…and I’ve probably missed some

                • alwyn

                  “RNZ between 8.30 and 9.00am”.
                  It must be nice to have that much time free.
                  I listened from 6:00am until about 8:20am.
                  Then I had to start work. I hate having to have to work out our Income tax but the IRD insist on it. I wish I was like you and had time enough to be able to listen to the radio as late as 9:00 am.

              • Why would Clark be trying to gag DHB officials from talking about Nationals mess, not in his best interest.

            • Gabby

              Can you be a man of the cloth and defrocked wally? One or t’other surely.

              • Gabby

                I hope you don’t often find yourself struggling to recall common phrases wally.

    • Gabby 5.3

      He certainly does seem to be teetering on the brink of pricksmithery.

    • adam 5.4

      I wondered where todays “Hate In” was going to be.

      It’s the usual.

  5. Ffloyd 6

    I must say I’m disappointed in NZF. Why did they have to start their shenanigans right before Jacinda goes on maternity leave? Could it not have waited six weeks. If I were Jacinda I wouldn’t be relaxing at all.Not with the opposing snake pit ready to strike at everything that will give them positive paragraphs from the pandering press. Even the minor Hosking, Hawkesby is chewing on the end of her pen and has entered the fray. Not good.

    • Treetop 6.1

      I am about to see how the PMs maternity leave is going to be handled by every political party.

      The PM could turn up with a hungry, tired, screaming baby at queston time and hand the baby to Mallard. Now that would be something.

      • xanthe 6.1.1

        Or Winston could have wonderful fun chewing up nat party idiots and making them look like the ignorant shills they are

        • AsleepWhileWalking

          Winston is a fun guy. I’d like to see him takedown Judith.

        • Treetop

          I wonder if he is going to get a new suit for the occasion or a tie with a message on it…

          Winston’s in charge.

    • Grantoc 6.2


      This is normal NZF behaviour.

      The’re only interested in themselves and much of what we’ve seen over this last week is designed to re energise the NZF support base.

      The Mystery Creek Field Days gave Jones a perfect platform to advance this cause by attacking Fonterra. The fact it coincides with Ardern’s maternity leave is of no concern to NZF. The fact that she is perceived as weak and having little or no influence over NZF cabinet ministers is also of no concern to NZF.

      In the end NZF are not team players.

      In the end they may seriously undermine Ardern as leader of the coalition as well as the coalition itself.

      But, from NZF’s point of view, no matter, so long as it increases their support base.

    • alwyn 6.3

      If you have access to the DomPost have a look at the Sharon Murdoch cartoon this morning. I think it displays accurately how Ardern will be feeling.
      I can’t find it online so I can’t provide a link I’m afraid.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 6.3.1

        I’m sure she is elated, a little nervous about her first birth and over the moon it’s happening.

  6. Bearded Git 7

    A stupid tourist tax has been announced by the government today. A complicated process to pay the $30 before you come to NZ; talk about getting up peoples noses.

    This is in the week where a Price Waterhouse report has shown that the government already benefits by $2.5 billion annually from tourism. This means if the new tax puts 2% of people off coming here it will raise no income at all.

    The tourism guy on RNZ said this week that the government should simply reallocate some of the massive cash it already receives from tourism rather than charge a new tax.

    • Sacha 7.1

      How many visitors would really avoid coming to NZ over a $30 fee when their average spend here is about $3,000 per trip (not including the costs of getting here)?

      • alwyn 7.1.1

        It isn’t just foreigners coming here. It will probably be mirrored for New Zealand citizens going through other countries.
        For example
        Traditionally the US will charge travellers from other countries going there anything that that country charges US citizens.
        I can remember when a New Zealand citizen got a free US visa while Australians were charged quite a high fee for their visa. That was because the US citizens had to pay to get an Australian visa but New Zealand didn’t charge them anything. Drove my Australian friends nuts.
        If that hasn’t changed New Zealand citizens going through Los Angeles to London will probably have to pay the same amount to US authorities just to pass through the Airport at LA.
        Poor old Air NZ. People will take SIA or Emirates and fly to Europe via Singapore or Dubai.

        • happynz

          NZ citizens pay US$14.00 for the two year ESTA as part of the visa waiver program – same as Aussie and other eligible nations. My wife used her Kiwi passport to enter the US last month and will do so again next month. She’s good to go until March 2019.

          • alwyn

            Sounds about right.
            While I was in Australia they dropped the ridiculous fee that were charging US citizens for an Australian visa. A couple of months later the USA did the same for Ockers. The price for Australian and New Zealand citizens then became the same.
            You will note that I said the IF New Zealand started charging the extra fee for a Visa AND the US still used the old “charge others as they charge us” system we could expect the fee for a US Visa to rise.
            I never said it applied now or would apply before we cranked up the fee did I?
            I haven’t entered the US through LA since before 2001. I refuse to put up with the way I am told they treat visitors there. Europe via the East for me.

        • John up North

          So happynz………… are you saying alwyn is full of shit??

          Well I never…………..

        • Draco T Bastard

          It will probably be mirrored for New Zealand citizens going through other countries.

          It already is.

          Tourist taxes aren’t a new thing and the reality is that we’re having to subsidise tourist operators in this country in many ways. Aren’t capitalists all about not having subsidies?

    • saveNZ 7.2

      @Bearded Git. Great news, good on the government.

      Should be much higher plus an extra $30 if they arrive in Auckland and are expected to use the train/tram that has not been built yet and the current ratepayers are expected to finance.

      As for PWC, 1 million for their report on the stadium that the ratepayers and councillors are not allowed to read in it’s entirety, but Phil Goff.

      Who trusts the trougher’s with fees like those!

      Reminds me of firms like Anderson Consulting, they get out of touch and then, poof one day they are gone. Although apparently Anderson Consulting are back! Under a new name of course.

      • David Mac 7.2.1

        I think Mr Goff should be able to keep the report to himself and the $936,000 invoice re-directed to his residence for his personal attention.

        I would of been happy to prepare a report and arrive at the same conclusion as PWC for much less money

        Essentially: ‘We could expand Eden Park, do something massive on the Albany stadium site, free range at 1 of three outer suburban sites or build something spectacular downtown.’

        In the eyes of Aucklanders, anything other than downtown with bars and restaurants overlooking the Hauraki Gulf will be 2nd best. A stadium built anywhere other than there will live forever beneath the shadow of ‘Could of had a City of Sails view.’ So there are no options. Find the money.’

        “That’ll be $500,000 thanks.”

        • Gabby

          Isn’t the view in a stadium mostly facing inwards davy? That’s the whole goddam raison d’etre isn’t it?

          • David Mac

            A visit to a stadium is an experience beyond the game or concert. I think Auckland should play her ace card. She needs the dosh. Watching the sun set over the Hauraki Gulf while meeting friends or queuing to get to your seat would be a special experience, more than a footy game.

            I think an architect would love a brief that instructs them to make the most of primary views inside and also those outside the stadium.

            Every toilet in every stadium in the world is buried beneath the seating. Walking into a men’s room to see a big pane of glass at the end and a mega view of the harbour would prompt me to think ‘this place is special.’

            Goff hasn’t shared his report with me. I’m speculating, I think Aucklanders might of paid a million dollars to hear: ‘It needs to be downtown, anything else is a compromise’.

            • David Mac

              A downtown location will be good for commerce.

              Elsewhere, I’d drive there, bitch about the lack of parking, not drink much and drive home after the game.

              Downtown, bugger the parking thing. I’d use public transport, meet for drinks and somewhere to eat before the game/concert and could be talked into a dodgy street vendor kebab and a visit to the casino post game.

        • John up North

          “Isn’t the view in a stadium mostly facing inwards davy? That’s the whole goddam raison d’etre isn’t it?”

          Well Gabby, we’re not really sure about that. As a sub-contracting consultant to David Mac, my team of experts (me and my Schnauzer) will put considerable effort into finding that information and presenting it in a colourful graph form…………… for another $200k, a steal even!!

          Look how much money we could have saved the Auckland rate payer!!!!!

      • Gabby 7.2.2

        I wonder if Leaky McLeakerson was the fine fellow on morning report yesterday .

  7. Pat 8

    “The tourism guy on RNZ said this week that the government should simply reallocate some of the massive cash it already receives from tourism rather than charge a new tax.”

    So hes advocating for an increase in company tax then ….sounds fair enough.

    • Bearded Git 8.1

      No he’s not-he is simply asking for the government to reallocate the taxes it already receives from tourism.

      • Pat 8.1.1

        and theres the problem….if you accept that additional funds are required then it has to come from somewhere….that precludes EXISTING revenue (unless you advocate reducing funding to something else)….so do you cross subsidise one sector by general taxation or do you have a targeted tax/levy?…which is fairer?….which is politically rational?….which impacts economic activity the least?

        The same old BS arguments from vested interests….its all good until it impacts me

        • Bearded Git

          The tourism industry is NOT being subsidised at all. It is paying its way magnificently but noisy ill-informed idiots are out there in the media saying the opposite.

          • Pat

            if it was paying its way there would be sufficient revenue in the current tax take to fund the required…..obviously it isnt, hence the calls from the regional authorities for additional funding…unless you consider they are crying wolf?

            • Bearded Git

              The underfunding problem is caused by central government not allocating enough of the $2.5 billion it gets from tourism to the regions and local council’s being afraid to levy enough rates from powerful developers and other business interests that make squillions from tourism.

              (I live under the Queenstown Lakes District Council junta and can attest to this.)

          • Gabby

            That explains the lack of pressure on ratepayers in low population high visitor areas I guess beardy. The magnificent paytheirownway tourism wealth creators howling for workers to come live in their unaffordable houses and work for peanuts.

          • Draco T Bastard

            The tourism industry is NOT being subsidised at all.

            Yes it is. By several million dollars per year per region.

      • saveNZ 8.1.2

        Time to stop using ordinary Kiwis as money machines, our taxes should be spent on our own health and education not subsiding the multinational tourist industries.

        Time, user pays, applies to everyone not just the powerless!

        Clearly the 2.5 billion is not being distributed very evenly in NZ as we have rising poverty of both the poor and the working and the middle class!

        If you can afford to travel, pay up!

        • alwyn

          Why should a businessman (or woman) who comes to Auckland for a couple of days have to pay a tourist levy? They will arrive, take a taxi to their hotel or office they are visiting, carry out their business activities for a couple of days and then go back to the airport and depart. They aren’t going to go anywhere near a tourist activity.
          This is just another tax. Labour and the Greens have never seen a tax they didn’t love.
          So much for pre-election promises.

          • Pat

            Why…firstly its deductable as a business expense and it isnt applying to PI or Aussie travellers (CER is my guess though I think it should) so Id suggest anyone travelling from further afield is going to incorporate some leisure activity in their tax deductable trip even if here for a short period…certainly every business trip I can think of to any distant destination is treated thus.

            In any case , if you accept additional funding is required (do you?) it must come from somewhere

            Additionally this is external to the econmy

            • alwyn

              “certainly every business trip I can think of to any distant destination is treated thus”.
              I wish my employer, in the days when I had such things, had been as generous. I generally had to back as soon as work was over. Mind you I wasn’t as hard done by as some people at one place I worked. There were people there who kept packed bags at home at all times. They also had foreign currency around. It was quite common for some of them to be told, on a Saturday perhaps, that they had to go to Singapore for 3 days and they had to get there on Sunday. They would go, travel back on Thursday and be in the office again on Friday.

              Do we want some more money? Well yes, and I think we should follow what is the West Australian approach. It is, roughly, this. I am giving, from memory, the amounts charged for a car. They apply to everyone, visitor or State resident.

              Payments are required to visit all National and State Parks. A single visit costs $12 for a car and its passengers. For $44 you can visit all the parks in the State for 28 days. For $88 you can visit all the parks in the State for a year. For $44 you can visit all the parks in a geographic region for a year. These are quite big regions. From memory it would be something like all the North Island up to a line across at the Manawatu Gorge. I do not guarantee that estimate. I always use the 28 day option for the whole state when I go there these days.
              The last two fees are obviously of interest to people who live in WA. The first two are of interest to tourists. Everyone who uses the parks pays although the billing system does favour the locals.

              Seems to work pretty well to me. The facilities are good and they are paid for by the people who use them.

              Correction. The fees are $13, $46 and $92 for the first three. The last is $23 but is only available for the group of parks in the area where you reside. They must have changed since last year.

              • Pat

                your business trip reminiscences would appear to apply to employees…the tax will be of no concern to them …nor will it be to their companies which pay it i suggest.
                There are additional charges for various facilities as well (DOC huts e.g.) unfortunately that revenue will not assist the TAs in the main as it will be utilised within the businesses/organisations that have the ability to generate it.
                The call has gone to central gov to assist in funding this so the gov has the options outlined in 8.1.1……..questions conveniently ignored.

                What better way to raise additional funds than a levy from without the economy….and still there’s clowns who wish to decry the assistance…go figure.

          • Bearded Git

            Agreed Alwyn…this is a very dumb tax.

          • saveNZ

            Excellent analogy Alwyn. Well the tourists use our roads for that taxi and clog it up. The diesel will go into our water systems. The current residents are expected to pay for that usage by a petrol tax and rates which if renting will increase the rents.

            The hotel will probably be owned by a multination corporation that may or not be paying tax here (not even sure if OZ companies for example have to). The businesses get to deduct their rates, petrol and GST as an expense that ordinary people are unable to do.

            Increasingly the hotels employ people at close to the minimum wages and often under the living wages therefore they are either sponsoring someone to work here from overseas or the NZ taxpayer will have to subsidise their wages with AS and WFF and community services card.

            They will use NZ water, NZ waste water, NZ sewerage, NZ infrastructure. Sadly the way the Auckland council runs their businesses, they expect the rate payers to ‘chip in’ to this tourist process and the ratepayer costs keep rising and pollution keeps increasing as the numbers keep arriving.

            The tourists are likely to eat out where the premise and business are both overseas owned and increasingly our restaurants are also poor quality and the staff are new migrants of under 10 years in the country, who have very little idea of the style of food or service, because there is not much emphasis on quality or training anymore in NZ. This is very apparent in Auckland where eating out now is very hit and miss and you will pay a fortune for a very average meal of often horrible quality.

            So I think your example is perfect of why the government should be collecting a tax from overseas tourists and I think the current climate of bad quality in that sector wherever you go now, is going to have a horrible toll on that tourist industry.

            If you only have 3 days in NZ and get horrible food, horrible congestion and horrible service and probably are unlikely to encounter a resident to talk to who was born in NZ, then what sort of NZ experience is that?

            Of course if your visit to NZ is just to buy a house, land or business then I guess you don’t care.

            There is a great difference between a dynamic multicultural city and one that has tired exploited people from other countries working there cheaply. I think in NZ, we are going towards the latter, because the tourism and hospitality industry has been allowed to cost cut to an extent that will eventually end the tourist industry as we know it.

          • Gabby

            You mentioned three tourist activities wally.

        • Bearded Git

          @save NZ see my comment above.

  8. SaveNZ 9

    Lets face it, we have human trafficking in NZ to keep our low wage industry going because many industries and businesses do not want to have to employ people at living wage rates or even the minimum wages.

    Every time there is a ‘block’ recruit of low wage workers chances are – this is what is happening and NZ immigration is completely compliant in the process and supporting the people traffickers. The use of slavery and modern day overseers aka ‘foremen running gangs of cheap workers’ on construction sites and in the horticultural and fishing sector is alive and well.

    New Zealand’s first human trafficking convictions

    Human trafficking in NZ likely thanks to Chinese immigrants – expert

    It’s already happening with the fake degrees where students are lured in after paying big bucks while finding out their degree is useless and they are expected to then pay more money to pay for the ‘residency’ job and then work for next to nothing. There should be much great checks by both the immigration and the NZ course provider that the students understand that residency is not coming with the crappy course they are recruited for and spend a lot of money coming to NZ.

    Even if they are found out, the employers/courses seem to get a tiny fine and it’s business as usual. They only reason they are going after this alleged trafficker is that he is Fijian and so politically safer than going after Chinese, Indian or Korean traffickers and employers willing to capitalise on the exploitation.

    Time to clean up our act NZ, like with prostitution, you don’t prosecute the prostitutes you go after the clients and so in my view there should be heavy penalties aka Jail, $100,000 fine and being banned from running a business, to not only the subcontractor who runs the trafficked workers, but also the farms and businesses where they are caught working and the employment lawyers and middle men doing the paperwork. There should also be warrants issued for the middle men in the country of origin so they can be stopped and prosecuted there.

    Even the factories in China seem to have better protection for the above aka they are checked for employment conditions, than our laws that are encouraging employers to turn a blind eye or actively recruit slave workers who after paying accomodation and food are then left with nothing but debts, aka just like NZ workers.

    Equal up the playing field for employment in NZ by banning slavery and human trafficking!

    • saveNZ 9.1

      And of course banning slavery and human trafficking is also evening up the playing field for the honest employers in this country who are being undercut!

    • saveNZ 9.2

      All of the above should also be forced to pay damages to their victims and not be allowed to just file for bankruptcy with zero penalties. If they file for bankruptcy then they should go to jail.

      There should also be a tenancy tribunal type process for small disputes under $12,000 over employment which bans lawyers and will therefore deliver much swifter justice at much cheaper costs and take away the power from the big players.

      The employment court is broken, delivering very little at great cost and over great periods. Everybody I know fears it, as it is a waste of time.

      After a very short time a new swift employment tribunal for the cases under $12k, will change the workforce, take away little cases so the employment court can concentrate on the bigger cases and I am sure that not only will it change the workforce it will also remove a lot of the cash industry and the day to day exploitation of workers, causing employers to clean up their acts.

    • OnceWasTIm 9.3

      Good, and valid points @ saveNZ at 9.
      Not only have Immigration been ‘compliant’ as you say, I’d say complicit.
      They’re complicit because they target the victims (probably because they have found it easier in the past) rather than the perpetrators. When they do manage to charge a few of the exploiters/trafiickers/arseholes, there is very very little sanction and they’re left to be able to go another round.
      I’ll give you one example in soon (because I happen to be familiar with it, and can’t understand why ‘authorities’ – what the politicians now call ‘their officials’ could’t have seen the bleeding bloody obvious sooner.)
      Before I do though, the immigration policy and the administrative structure that has been set up to support it has been designed to allow all this to happen.
      You mention the fake degree stuff where students are made false promises and utterly fleeced. Bear in mind that government agencies have supposed to have been monitoring all this and ensuring the integrity of the system
      NZQA re educational standards. The Immigration Advisor’s Authority making sure consultants weren’t complete bullshit artists ( until recently, the Immig NZ/MoBIE website was STILL encouraging people to become immigration consultants/advisors, and there are now literally hundreds operating, and they give genuine immigration specialists a bad name. ) The Labour Inspectorate who have had to admit they’ve been close to useless – that is even though we had one manager assuring us we had sufficient numbers just prior to the election. AND even now, who seem have very weird priorities, such as investing in stab proof vests. It’s NO BLOODY WONDER those who are brave enough to want to report extreme levels of exploitation would rather steer clear.
      These (NZQA/IAA/LI) are just 3 of the entities who should have been keeping an eye on it all, but for reasons such as being completely under-resourced for the job, or because of shear muppetry, or prejudice or the wrong focus have not just been complicit, but they have encouraged it.
      You can probably recall the case of the students deported last year after being given haven in a church in Auckland. They were deported because Steven Joyce (who by the way, was a big part of the problem in designing the system) had said (to paraphrase “because they’d signed the application, they were responsible” and it was therefore all their own fault.) Nothing to do with having paid for so called ‘immigration experts’ and shoddy PTEs and labour companies). A classic case of penalising and blaming the victims whilst allowing the exploiters and perpetrators to carry on and target another round of suckers – because you know…. we have a 4 billion dollar education export industry to protect.
      So here’s an example of something I’m fairly closely familiar with:

      It’s not as bad as others I know of, but there goes 2 guys who’ve exploited quite a number of people. I can’t for the life of me, understand how this did not come to the attention of various entities under MoBIE sooner. Bear in mind, LI and INZ work together, AND they’re in charge of things like the companies register.
      If the cable jointer working down the street on copper cabling (who had nothing to do with 3ML) knew about it months and months ago, how is it that it was beyond the capability of a juggernaut Ministry to know. But you know what – it’s actually been easier to just get the victims of immigrant exploitation out of the country as soon as possible (and enable another round to replace them on short term visas).

      And let’s not for one moment think that it is corrupt immigrants who’ve managed to get PR alone. Rest assured there are paid up 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation NZ Citizens milking it for all they’re worth.

      You might be interested in this also – if you haven’t already seen it:
      including my comment.

      I’m assured that coalition government ministers know about it (if only because one confided in my sister at the Labour party’s little post-election getaway in Martinborough), although I’m not sure they know the extent of it all, and whether they’ve cottoned tothe extent of some of their ‘officials’ spinning.
      Things are happening though – probably not as fast as we (and the exploited) would wish

  9. Puckish Rogue 10

    Do the COL think the people of NZ have such short memories that we recall stuff like this?


    I’m sniffing some PR spin when it comes to how the PM is dealing with her NZ First MP’s.

    First up, we have Winston Peters, deputy PM and acting PM shortly, suing the government. When asked about how appropriate or otherwise this is, the Prime Minister’s response was that he was doing it in a personal capacity.


    “The man of many hats is back,” Megan Woods proclaimed in 2016.

    The Labour MP wasn’t reciting a Dr Seuss book, but excoriating John Key for using the question of ministerial responsibility to dodge questions about his connection to foreign trusts.

    Key’s choice of different “hats” during his time in power – prime minister, Helensville MP, husband putting out the cat – was a subject of frequent irritation for Opposition politicians seeking to hold him to account.

    • marty mars 10.1

      Lol thanks pucky for that.

      I’m enjoying how the jacinda replies make the keyster attempts seem even more shallow in retrospect.

      But hey at least the bridge is a keyclone so no surprises for the gnats.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1

        So no issues with Ardern saying pretty much what Key said even though she promised how much better Labour was going to be?

        • marty mars

          Sure, a teeny issue soon reconciled, just seems you’re trying to froth the milk a bit much.

          • Puckish Rogue

            Heres the thing though, for 9 years the posters on here gleefully pointed out every real and imagined error the National made all in the guise of holding the government to account

            Those posters set the standard of behaviour and Ardern then doubled down on the standards she expected so now the only thing the opposition has is the ability to point out whenever the government puts a foot wrong and this government is doing so much wrong

            Yet not a peep from the posters on here when the government displays the same, and worse, behaviour the last government did

            • marty mars

              A sad tale of woe indeed and somehow it makes me smile – my bad.

              • Puckish Rogue

                If nothing else you can believe me on this when I say I totally get it and understand

            • ankerawshark

              Hey Pukish and other posters.

              I don’t expect this govt no to make mistakes and I don’t expect them to not do anything that doesn’t fall in with my values and their professed values e.g the Eugenie Sage bottled water thing. I understand they may be in positions where they need to compromise.

              I do look at the big picture and what they are trying to achieve. Under Labour its improving minimum wage, not building mega prisons, fixing the Middlemore mess and properly funding infrastructure and attempting to solve the housing crisis (and actually naming it as a crisis that needs solving).
              From my point of view that have been working very hard from day one to address these issues (and many more) that are important to me. Mostly National either did nothing about the problems eg Middlemore or had a hand in creating them.

              From that point of view, I am very happy with the Coalition and I am forgiving of mistakes (up to a point). After all we all make them.

              Re the list of labour incompetents…………Well Nationals are:
              N Smith,
              G Brownlee
              H Parata
              Anne Tolley
              Jamie Lee Ross
              The new guy in Northcote (if the Wilson interview is anything to go by
              J Coleman
              P Bennett ……………………………………………..etc etc

              • Puckish Rogue

                Ok so

                “Under Labour its improving minimum wage”
                – as did National

                “Fixing the Middlemore mess”
                – That is indeed a mess

                attempting to solve the housing crisis

                – Its not looking good at the moment unless you’re a housing developer

                “I am forgiving of mistakes (up to a point). After all we all make them.”

                – Mistakes yes but arrogance and incompetence is something else entirely don’t you think?

                • Ankerawshark

                  Interesting pr. What did national raise minimum wage by? Notice all govt employees to get a living wage…..

                  I do think arrogance and incompetence are something else. I have to say plenty of that in National, possibly labour.

                  But it’s what hey achieve that matters most. An organisation can have bits of incompetence but still get good outcomes……I am looking at the outcomes btw think it is ridiculous to judge col success on the housing crisis yet. It took some years to develop under national. You don’t turn that around in 8 months.

                  And I do blame Nat for the housing crisis. Owned a house in am that I rented between 2004 2014 cause I moved out of Auckland for work. The first four years mostly got tennants ok but around 2006 had to drop the rent cause I couldn’t get a tenant. After 2008 whole thing became crazy

      • Fireblade 10.1.2

        Puckish Rogue is trying to point out that he misses John but Jacinda is just as good.

        Most MP’s have several hats, although Simon appears to only have one hat which doesn’t fit properly.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Jacinda is very good at what she does, she’s easily the equal of John Key in certain respects

          • Robert Guyton

            “easily the equal”
            If she matches him “easily”, that implied besting him would only take a little more effort from Jacinda. I believe that’s the case.

            • Puckish Rogue

              Shes easily as good as John Key was at manipulating the media, you know the whole transparent government thing then putting Curran in charge

              Shes as good as Key was at saying a lot, and sounding authoritative, without saying anything at all, relentlessly positive thing and don’t have to lie to be in politics

              Shes also as good as Key at mangling the language but still sounding like “one of us”

              Shes a very good communicator and a very good politician

              Shes not the leader John Key was though, everyone knew John Key was the boss however she may grow to equal or even surpass John in that are as well though I doubt it

              (No there’s no damning with faint praise going on)

              • Or one could say Key was a passive autocrat in style whereas Adern is a facilitative / consensus style leader.

                Irrespective of what language style they use.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  I’m not disagreeing with you but i was more referring to the age and experience difference in that John Key is older and has held more leadership positions so its only natural that Key is the more experienced/better leader

                  Jacinda may well become as good (effective) leader as John in the future but at the moment she isn’t

                  • Again , subjective. The leadership styles are merely different.

                    Also , Adern has held leadership positions at a very young age when overseas. While Key spent much of time as a younger man literally working for the ‘ Man’.

                    Recall Key working in with Andrew Kreiger to pull off one of the biggest Forex Heists in history against the NZ economy.

                    And that’s not leadership , – that’s being a boy taking orders.

                    And doesn’t particularly show any sense of operating in his country of births best interests, … does it.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      “Also , Adern has held leadership positions at a very young age when overseas.”

                      – like what exactly?

                      “While Key spent much of time as a younger man literally working for the ‘ Man’.”

                      – Wow, thats wow. Like did Key ever become “the man” or just work for “the man”, who is “the man” anyway, is there a female counterpart like “the woman”?

                      Hang on I party voted for National which means that John Key did work for me and since John Key worked for “the man” that must mean I am “the man”


                    • As for John Key ?

                      Merril Lynch.

                      As for Jacinda Adern ?

                      President of the International Union of Socialist Youth.

                      So , one involved in the financial sector as a junior at first , the other in the political area as a leader. So it pretty much pans out . And we are back to square one. Different leadership styles.

              • Robert Guyton

                “Shes not the leader John Key was though, everyone knew John Key was the boss”
                That kinda paints you as a unreconstructed authoritarian there, Pucky.
                Leaders don’t have to be “the boss”; there are more elegant ways to lead. In many ways, your thinking seems pre-Arthurian where Might was regarded as Right. We’ve come a long way since then, Pucky. Well, some of us have 🙂

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Well I could have thrown Helen Clark in there as well as a good leader 🙂

    • You cant have dodgy characters in official govt position’s in dept’s and elected officials carrying on and leaking private financial details to the public. That’s an illegal breach of privacy and breach of protocol for a start.

      Its also political bias from govt dept heads working in collusion to smear a political figure deemed as opposed to their political masters. When they should by job description be impartial and simply executors of the incumbent govts policy’s.

      And the fact no one had seemed to have the gonads to own up shows they knew what they were doing was wrong.

      Peters has every right and all power to him.

      Slap on the wrist Meaning – YouTube
      Video for slap on the wrist you tube▶ 0:20

      • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1

        Hey I agree, send it to the courts to decide and see what happens and thats all good but to suggest the acting PM is doing it in a personal capacity and announcing it while he takes the reigns is a couple steps to far

        • WILD KATIPO

          … ” to suggest the acting PM is doing it in a personal capacity and announcing it while he takes the reigns is a couple steps to far ” …

          Not at all.

          That’s a matter of personal opinion and interpretation. And as for it being in a personal capacity well its correct on at least one count…

          As it was it was directed solely at Peters ,- not his party.

          The fact that no one – after all this time elapsing ,- has come forward and admitted it is also indicative of knowledge of wrongdoing . W e are dealing with dept’s that know the law about public disclosures and what is illegal.

          And we are also dealing with elected officials who know those laws. One of which , – has a past track record of releasing personal details to the public on at least two occasions against those least able to defend themselves – beneficiaries.

          This event occurred just prior to a general election ,- was that a couple of steps too far to try and smear a leader of a political party that was deemed a threat , – until the incumbent govt realized they might need them to form a govt ???

          I would say it is indeed very ‘personal’.

          And political, – on the defendants side.

          Which begs the question : do we really want future politics to be conducted in this manner with this sort of Dirty Politicking ??? Is this what we are paying elected officials and heads of govt depts to act like?

          So what better time as Peters becomes Prime Minister to make an example of this sort of stonewalling of democracy by using underhanded ( and illegal ) means ?

          If anything I would say Winston Peters is doing the country a big favour by putting the boot squarely on the neck of these sorts of activity’s. And highlighting this sort of skulduggery when hes Prime Minister is in fact, perfect timing.

          All power to him.

    • Sacha 10.3

      What do you mean by “COL”?

    • Gabby 10.4

      It’s kind of a shame it worked so well isn’t it puckers.

  10. Puckish Rogue 11

    I get tribalism, I get that people are happy “their side” won, I understand the vitriol against National I really do (I did read the posts after all) but, six months in, are the posters on the left here happy with how the present government is performing, are they performing up to the standard you expect or were led to believe they’d act

    Is this really how you thought it’d be?

    • Robert Guyton 11.1

      Personally, Pucky, I’m delighted with the COL (in preference to the CON). I couldn’t know what they could do, given the state of the nation at takeover, or how the Opposition (CON) might behave, or how the MSM might conduct itself, nor how the coalition partners would gel (sorry Simon), so given those factors, yes, I reckon the Jacinda-led Government is doing very well indeed and I’m very happy with their direction, pace and approach. There are glitches (the CON’s were hidden from us by a slippery leader and a team of deceitful strategists and assorted flunkies) so I’m not at all rattled by those things you are attempting to wave in front of us every day.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1

        Ok fair enough

        • WILD KATIPO

          And the fact that you are commenting on and assuming tanker-loads in comparing a 6 month old govt against another ( CON ) that was in power for 9 years !

          There’s a very very long bow in attempting to do that.

          • Puckish Rogue

            Not really, some of the Labour ministers seem to be as arrogant as the National ministers were except that Labours only been in power for six months as opposed to Nationals arrogance being born from terms in power

            • WILD KATIPO

              OK , but it does seem your original statement was more to do with ‘performance’ than ‘arrogance’.

              And if ‘arrogance’ is an allusion to say Phil Twyfords retorts back to Judith Collins on housing , for example ,… when a govt is only 6 months in and attempting to fix the negligence of a former govt that was in for 9 long years and that did nothing…

              I would say even that is a little premature to accuse them of being ‘arrogant’… but point taken … there is arrogance on all sides of the political spectrum.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Well In regards to performance I could mention Claire Curren or Jenny Marcroft or David Clarks interesting strategy or Kelvin Nash being well Kelvin Nash

                “there is arrogance on all sides of the political spectrum.”

                On this I think we, and everyone here, can all agree that is the case so its nice we can reach consensus on somethings 🙂

                • alwyn

                  Please Puckish Rogue. How good a lunch, and how many glasses of wine, did you have?
                  It is Clare Curran, not Claire Curren
                  It is Kelvin Davis, not Kelvin Nash.
                  Alternatively it is Stuart Nash, not Kelvin Nash
                  They may be pretty useless but they deserve to be given their proper names.

    • Stuart Munro 11.2

      They are infinitely better than the Gnats.

      They’ve moved from criminal to pedestrian.

      I want enlightened.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.2.1

        Just letting you know Labour aren’t squeaky clean in this area, in case you’d forgotten


        On 6 October 2009, Field was jailed for six years on corruption charges, with the sentencing judge saying his offending threatened the foundation of democracy and justice.

        • Stuart Munro

          He’s more the exception than the rule only in getting prosecuted. Given more vigorous pursuit of MP crime the majority of the previous government would be incarcerated. It’s one of the things a halfway decent government would prioritize.

          They’re a very corrupt lot, the present day Gnats – it is not supposed to be fear of prosecution that keeps an MP straight, but a genuine concern for the country they are paid and sworn to represent.

          They disgust me.

            • Stuart Munro

              Minor shit. Not too sure about the first one, but Gnat sources whining impropriety are going to meet skepticism until some of their larger rorts are dealt with.

              Clark is my electorate MP and has long since destroyed any vestiges of credibility the party aegis might have lent him had he not been such a turd. That said, a politicized board member is nothing to boast of either – and Clark’s response may have been merely to circumvent possible legal action around dismissal.

          • Wayne

            Stuart Munro

            Why do you keep saying such ridiculous things like the majority of the former govt should be in jail. It is hardly conducive to reasoned debate.

            How is anyone going to take anything you say seriously when you go on like that?

            Presumably some of what you say is intended to be serious, as opposed to just being polemic.

            • Stuart Munro

              Explain the public interest in the sweetheart loans to Mediaworks Wayne.

              Explain to Christchurch residents Brownlee’s collusion with insurers and fake repairers.

              Explain the looting of Housing Corp by Gnat supporters employing spurious P tests to alienate public property at a massive discount.

              And don’t explain it to me – tell it to a panel of judges tasked to clean up the woeful record of corruption you and your disgusting mates created.

              • Wayne

                Which Panel of Judges is this?

                Are these the handpicked Star Chamber Judges that you hope the government will establish?

                • Stuart Munro

                  You defend the mendacity of your colleagues as usual. No surprise. But plenty of shame.

                • Stuart Munro

                  The analogy you’re looking for is older than Star Chamber of course.

                  The hot and cold running corruption that typifies present day National is viewed by them as seigneurage – the price we pay for the distinctly dubious pleasure of their presence.

                  Which is no pleasure at all, and the costs are better recovered and spent appropriately, if only to keep useless oiks like Brownlee from misappropriating the money that was supposed to keep roofs over peoples’ heads.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Why do you need a panel of judges? Perjury and graft can be tried perfectly well by a regular court.

                • Stuart Munro

                  Well I’m not a lawyer – but most of these miscreants are.

                  They need the full Dies Eyre.

            • WILD KATIPO

              I do not think Stuart Munro literally means the majority but rather figuratively , in as much as if the inner core have been involved in spurious activity’s , it behooves the wider party to do something about it. They did not.

              Putting aside some of the serious allegations mentioned in Dirty Politics , there seems to be a very real reticence to charge and prosecute those in govt in this country. Whats needed is an equivalent to the Queensland Crime and Corruption Commission in this country.

              We have Bill English shielding Todd Barclay from Police inquiry’s , we have John Key and common assault , signing off on a possible military operation that led to possible war crimes, then there was the tax haven fiasco and the Panama Papers , then we have Judith Collins and conflicts of interest to name a few…

              And over 9 years they racked up a pretty impressive list that , although covered in layers of deflections and plausible deniability, had their origins from somewhere. And that’s circumstantial evidence that is never proven because there seems to be a protective hedge around those who work in the interests of the moneyed people that is effective in preventing justice from taking its natural course.

              And its at this point they cease from being elected officials to being in a derogatory sense , mere ‘politicians’.

              • Robert Guyton

                There’s a good deal of strong feeling around the issue of corrupt National Party MPs, isn’t there! Much of that seems to stem from the frustration resulting from the techniques and strategies that appeared to shield those Ministers from natural justice. Much of the positive political “atmosphere” around the country now comes, not from the expected baby, but from the relief felt from National Party MPs being in Opposition and less able to behave as it was believed they did.

    • Kay 11.3

      Hey Pucky- and pretty sure I’m speaking speaking for most beneficiaries, the living in total and constant fear of the State vanished the moment Peters announced his decision. There were a lot of people who had exit plans ready had the other crowd got back in, not kidding, it was that bad.

      It’s still not great for us and I have no confidence at all in Sepaloni and there’s actions she could’ve taken immediately but hasn’t because she has a track record of hating beneficiaries, but I’m not living in constant fear, at least not for the next 2 years.

      • WILD KATIPO 11.3.1

        … ” There were a lot of people who had exit plans ready had the other crowd got back in, not kidding, it was that bad ” …

        That ,…. is incredibly chilling.

      • Fireblade 11.3.2

        Kay, I understand what you’re saying here. I have a family member who is a sickness beneficiary. I don’t think many people realise how vindictive and nasty MSD became from around 2011 onwards. I do think things will improve over the next year or two.

        As hard as it is to do, everyone needs to hope things will improve and stay strong for others who need our support

  11. Venezia 12

    So the taxpayer will find a new $10 million high speed gondola for the Whakapapa Skifield. Another subsidy for private businesses. Ordinary wage earners foot the bill.

  12. adam 13

    I see burger king are up to their usual BS in industrial relations in Christchurch.

    Trespassing union organisers, so childish.

    Here their 0800 number, call them and tell them to grow up. Remember all conversations are recorded. So be polite. This is the name of all the company directors you should mention who need to lift their game.

    Michelle Tracy Alexander

    John Christopher Hunter

    Jan Thorsgaard Nielsen

    James Douglas Carnegie

    0800 425 464



    • And remind em the Coalitions just passed the LIVING WAGE for all govt employees.

      And it will be their turn next .

      Might be bad for business if they don’t.

      The party’s over.

  13. Naki man 14

    A salary package of nearly $400k plus super just isnt enough for some. Why not try to take the tax payers for another $1.8 million.


    • Graeme 14.1

      I’d say that if your personal financial affairs turned up being sensationalised, and incorrectly at that, in the media you’d be in your lawyer’s office pretty smartly seeking redress.

      The unfortunate aspect of this sorry affair is that those responsible will hide behind executive privilege and pass the responsibility for their actions onto the taxpayer. Just like the past government’s ministers are doing with the meth testing debacle.

      Might be time for politicians to be personally responsible for their actions.

    • Ankerawshark 14.2

      Making man you guys on the right are usually for law and order. If a judge find the defendants guilty in this case then that’s the law.

      Your not suggesting people shouldn’t execercse their legal rights are you?

  14. Naki man 16

    “Might be time for politicians to be personally responsible for their actions.’

    So are you saying David Parker should pay $450k out of his own pocket.
    I hope Peters loses and the government sue him for the costs.

  15. Eco Maori 17

    Good morning Q$A ECO MAORI been done over by the justice system and is still been done over by this justice system how can they still find – – – reasons to carry on this farce. Another reason I don’t trust petri dish meat is that we don’t no what’s in it and big businesses will take total control of this new industry we can still farm traditions style and environment friendly ways.
    Renewable energy is the way to go our new coalition government will change our energy supply to more renewables all in good time Ka pai Corin Ka kite ano

  16. Eco Maori 18

    trump trade war is just the a way for him to portray that he is a strong person.
    His trade war will effect the poor people the most as inflation spikes.

  17. Eco Maori 19

    Eco Maori music for the minute shonky cause the houseing crisis so his 1 million dollar house will sell for 4.
    His national party supporters would have made heaps $$$$$$. Who cares about those mostly brown broken people under the bridge that’s their mind set link below.

    P.S what over reason is there for denieing that there is a houseing crisis when that crisis is fulling your hip pocket with $$$$$$$

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