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Open mike 15/04/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 15th, 2016 - 81 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

81 comments on “Open mike 15/04/2016 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    Cynicism or Satire?


    As the climate crisis deepens, it is getting harder to tell.

    • pat 1.1

      hmmm….toss a coin

    • weka 1.2

      Satire. Good satire, because it pokes the borax at not only the CEO class but all the ordinary people who would rather the world burned than having to change.

      It’s only too late if you think the only thing worth saving is human civilisation. If you think that life itself, including people, species and ecosystems have inherent worth beyond their use to civilisation, then it’s not too late to do something.

      The ‘it’s too late’ meme is the last refuge of the denialists (where we see that it’s not about their disbelief in AGW, but their fear and greed and belief that they can’t live without fossil fueled society). But the bigger danger is in the people that want to do something but feel powerless or don’t know how to give up what is required. If they buy into the meme, then the momentum of change will stall.

      • pat 1.2.1

        Think that much is obvious….one has to wonder about the thought processes of the likes of Tillerson however….an aging individual of great wealth (40 mil US pa package) , has children…..what drives them to push this line when they and theirs already have more material wealth than they could possibly use in their remaining time?….bloody-mindedness?

    • ianmac 1.3

      Satire but behind the scenes really really true.

  2. maui 2

    Clinton v Sanders political debate from Brooklyn, New York is on at 1pm NZ time today. Broadcast by CNN, there might be a live stream on their website.

  3. saveNZ 3

    The .1 percent are the true villains: What Americans don’t understand about income inequality


  4. Problems with Parliament’s Cabinet Manual…

    Circular reasoning, a casual treatment of democracy, and some assertions that are just plain wrong.


  5. Lucy 5

    Is anyone else really pissed off with Richie being invested in Order of NZ? He has definitely devalued the system of picking 20 great living NZers. He has done one thing in his short life – chased a ball around a field for 80 minutes a week for about 30 weeks a year for which he has been paid millions. What has he done to enrich the lives of people in New Zealand.
    If we were going to give this honour to someone younger then I would have voted for someone like Nano girl who at least has upped NZ girls interest in science! For him to say that it does not come with a title is disingenuous as he just needs to make a call and he can start calling himself Sir.
    This has taken the Order of NZ back to the honours system when you just had to be a mate of the PM’s to get a gong and has totally destroyed the intention to make the O of NZ about 20 people who had truly enriched NZ life and culture.

    • Bearded Git 5.1

      Agreed Lucy. If he had done another 30 years worth of charity work or something meaningful for the community (like Ian Botham, though he got a knighthood too early) then in 2046 when he was 62 or so you could argue the case.

      Just being able to play rugby well and being a mate of the PM’s should not be enough. In fact his craven support for the new flag as a hired hand should have disqualified him on that count alone.

    • ianmac 5.2

      Been wondering about that too Lucy. Its not that I am anti-Richie who has been a great rugby player. But it just seems a bit thin for him to be in such illustrious company. Murray Halberg was a great athlete and he founded the Murray Halberg Trust to help the physically disabled. Has Richie equalled that effort? I think Richie is helping the elderly by investing in shares in Old Folks homes if that counts?
      I was surprised that Key was not by the Governor General’s side at the Investure.

    • maui 5.3

      Absolutely, I agree he’s not worthy of a knighthood, so why should he be given greater recognition by being put in the top 20 honourable kiwis!

      Also anyone who puts their name behind a crap house building company like Versatile and helps create banal suburbia should also get demerit points imo, not honours.

    • Hami Shearlie 5.4

      Totally agree Lucy!

  6. adam 6

    Great interview.

  7. Anne 7


    Check out the images and comments from “Pete” at the end of the article. Is that the Pete from The Sewer? In my view they border on slander and should be swiftly removed by RNZ.

    • Roflcopter 7.1

      Which of those statements posted by Pete is untrue?

    • Bearded Git 7.2

      I loved Clark’s passionate and lucid explanation of how she fought against apartheid.

      Now isn’t there a prominent citizen who can’t even remember his position on this issue…

      • Puckish Rogue 7.2.1

        Seems appropriate

      • Anne 7.2.2

        BG @ 7.2
        There’s a news clip out there of a young Helen Clark being manhandled by a police officer during an anti apartheid protest around 1978 I think. A group of young men were trying to pull down a barbed wire fence erected to keep them out of Eden Park and Helen Clark happened to be standing only a few metres away from the action. The next thing she was being lunged at by this cop. If he’s still alive I bet he keeps a low profile. 🙂

    • Anne 7.3

      Ooops. Looks like Pete’s gone. 😈

  8. greywarshark 8

    Coming up on Radionz – sound interesting. Bill takes care to watch and learn about Fukushima!

    9:20 am Monday 18 April: Tilman Ruff
    Tilman Ruff
    Global Health Professor, Tillman Ruff from the University of Melbourne says a true picture of the catastrophic health fallout from the Fukushima nuclear disaster is emerging.
    The meltdown of the Fukushima nuclear power plant was triggered by the tsunami that followed a magnitude 9 earthquake which struck off the Pacific Coast of Japan . Tillman Ruff says leaks from the defunct plant are continuing, tens of thousands of people are still displaced, and there is an emerging thyroid cancer epidemic.

    Then,Bill Phillips was one of our bright people that wasn’t able to pass his acuity to the rest of us, leaving us to indulge ourselves in an ancient Egyptian practice as our main pursuit,(soaking ourselves in asses milk).

    11:25 am Wednesday 20 April: Alan Bollard on the life and economics of Bill Phillips

    He developed a machine that demonstrated the working of an economy.
    (I don’t think it was like ours is.)
    Perhaps now he is the ghost in the machine?

    (Sorry if I have confused someone. I have shifted this to Open Mike myself – put in on Twyfords Housing post by mistake.)

  9. joe90 9

    Live stream for today’s CNN Democratic presidential Debate.


    • adam 9.1

      We are at half way.

      And I’d say Bernie is winning. Hilary got Booed at one point.

      Hilary’s talking points sound to much like PR spin. And she looks really rattled at times.

      Bernie looked like he was getting beaten on gun control, but he managed a come back. But Hilary won that part of the debate.

      Every other point, especially minimum wage, Bernie wiped the floor of Hilary. She actually lied, and was pulled up by moderation.

      • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1

        Yes dear 🙂

        • miravox

          🙂 Sabine has really had an impact on you PR. I’ve seen your ‘yes dear’ popping up all over the place.

          Now you just need to work out the context in which she used that phrase.

  10. Puckish Rogue 10


    “It’s really disappointing actually. They’ve doctored the tape recording to take out the bit where he says ‘this is what some in the industry say’, and they’ve doctored the bit which says ‘we need to help these people to make sure they get employment’.

    Mr Lees-Galloway concedes the recording is a partial one and started recording after hearing a question about immigration. He missed the start of the answer, but maintains what was released is accurate.

    No surprise there, Labour indulging in some Dirty Politics to attempt to score a hit

    • joe90 10.1


    • Roflcopter 10.2

      It’s almost lying by omission.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1

        Labour can’t even do Dirty Politics properly

        • weka

          You really are a nasty little shit PR, of the mindfucking variety, who has no ethics and minimal morals and who has large disregard for the truth as part of your political MO. Your comments here are a complete misrepresentation of what what happened. That’s deliberate IMO. I’m sure you will trot out some oh I didn’t really mean that bullshit when confronted on it, so I’m not even going to bother pointing out where you are lying. Others can go read the article for themselves.

          What I’m getting today is that you simply don’t care about what dirty politics is, how serious it is, and how much damage it does. And that you are pretty happy to misuse that concept to smear your political opponents. I’m sick of your constant astroturfing/trolling and think from now on I will just name it as such.

          Puckish Rogue, liar, shill and troll.

          • Puckish Rogue

            Oh bugger off you sanctimonious twat

            Lees-Galloway deliberately released the recording knowing without the context provided that it would sound bad, he knew it wasn’t representative of what English was saying but he released to try to get a hit on the government

            It failed because Lees-Galloway was sloppy and now you’re all “waah waah waah” , you’re quick to label whatever the National party does as “Dirty Politics” but whenever Labour is exposed its a different story

            • adam

              yes dear

            • Stuart Munro

              No only rude but wrong – public statements are not dirty politics.

              It sounded bad because it was bad – like everything about this disgustingly corrupt and treacherous government.

              Labour should stand silent while the crooks lie – crooks like you? Fuck off PR – if you can’t pretend to be polite, and you be bothered being truthfull failoil is your natural home.

              • Puckish Rogue

                It sounded bad because it wasn’t what Bill English said, it was what Lees-Galloway recorded, without the context, and what he gleefully published and what the mouth breathers on here lapped up without a second thought

            • weka

              But that’s not what you said. As I predicted you now come back with a different story. Seen you do this so many times. You are a liar, and I’m not going to sit by and let and amoral fuck like you distort a critical political concept like DP for your own ends. My comment isn’t about LG or Labour (go read it again) it’s about disingenuous fuckwits like you who are happy to burn down the house. As someone else said, piss off to WO because I’m sick of the endless lies and deliberate mindfucking with the political culture of NZ, including the debate culture here. You are quite capable of communicating without telling lies, but you choose to lie as a way of trolling here. You are so disrespectful I can’t even be bothered telling you to up your game. Puckish Rogue, liar, shill and troll, time to make that plain and clear.

              • BM

                Do you approve of what Lees-Galloway did?, it’s fairly obvious he’s gone out of his way to misrepresent what Bill English said.

                Feeble amateur hour dirty politics from Labour.

                • weka

                  Pay attention. I haven’t yet expressed an opinion about LG (or Labour). My comment is about PR’s behaviour. But seeing as how everyone keeps replying to me about LG, I’m going to add hypocrite the list of adjectives for PR.

            • miravox

              weka’s not wrong PR and you know it.

          • Nessalt

            So lees-galloway got caught out using an altered recording that he suckered compliant media into using to attack his political opponent, which apparently is dirty politics methodology 101 according to the trustafarian hager. PR has called it dirty politics, because if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then….. it must be a duck. or dirty politics in this case.

            you’ve lost it for some reason I can’t quite fathom? is it because whats been said all along, both sides are guilty of using such practices, is true? and your carefully maintained imaginary construct of somehow the left being purer than pure has been shattered?

            • miravox

              Lees Galloway says that the recording was not altered Nessalt.

              Pretending it was and attacking someone for something they didn’t do and feeding it to media mates… Now that’s dirty politics101.

              • BM

                But Lees Galloway heard the comment in it’s entirety

                When you include the ‘this is what some in the industry say’, and the ‘we need to help these people to make sure they get employment’, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with what Bill English.

                That fact that Lees -Galloway went to the media with a non accurate version which he knew was misleading and then claims what Bill English said was this appalling outrage is dirty politics 101.

                • It was entirely accurate and Bill English agreed he’d said it. And meant it. ILG 1, Dipton 0.

                  • BM

                    Without the other bits the recording is completely out of context,

                    Anyway, wrong score, should be LG 0, Dipton 3

                    First goal is that that vast majority agreed with the misleading version anyway, some kiwi unemployed are farkin hopeless and do need a kick up the arse.

                    Second goal, is that Labour leapt in on the side of the lazy and useless therefore further cementing it’s position in the voters eye as the bludger party.

                    Third goal is the feeble dirty politics blowing up in Lees -Galloway face.

                • miravox

                  Bald-faced lies about doctoring is one thing, playing a tape of what someone actually said is another.

                  Even if the rest of the answer was recorded (noting here the PMs version of context doesn’t provide any), English still said some young men were hopeless. That was a wrong thing to say. If he wants to plead context he should have stated the situation some young men were in, not the young men, were hopeless.

                  English has had 30-odd years in politics to learn to say correctly what he believes. If he doesn’t believe what he said should apologise and rephrase. Not go on about context that he didn’t use when making the offending remark. If he does believe it, own it – personal responsibility and all that.

                  There is no need for the PM to be planting lies about doctoring recordings. Simple enough.

                  • Nessalt

                    it’s wrong to tell the truth then? some young men ARE hopeless. otherwise how would the qualifier, that something needs to be done to fix this, make any sense?

                    the left bang on about fixing problems, but if you can’t talk about them how can you really fix them?

                    “Something is wrong with my car, I’m sure what, but I can’t tell you what something is. so throw money at it till it’s fixed

                    • weka

                      Miravox – “There is no need for the PM to be planting lies about doctoring recordings.”

                      Nessalt – “it’s wrong to tell the truth then?”

                      lolz, the epitome of what is wrong with the RW shills.

                    • miravox


                      BE says young men are hopeless
                      LG records BE saying young men are hopeless
                      LG plays recording
                      Nessalt agrees with BE that young men are hopeless
                      and Nessalt says “It’s not wrong to tell the truth”

                      so… If there is nothing wrong with telling truth (as BE sees it, and Nessalt agrees with) that’s that then.

                      Unless they don’t want to be seen to be telling the ‘truth’.

                • weka

                  When you include the ‘this is what some in the industry say’, and the ‘we need to help these people to make sure they get employment’, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with what Bill English.

                  Please link to your source for those quotes.

    • Gabby 10.3

      Did you leave out the bit where he said he agrees with them accidental-like or on purpose, purple knob?

      • ianmac 10.3.1

        There are some people who are unwilling or unable to work reliably. Always have been. Not sure of the causes. Not very bright? Unable to concentrate for long? Uneducated? Feel worthless? No understanding of work ethic?
        There always have been some at the bottom of the employable heap. Maybe society has to accept that they exist and just carry them like others who are handicapped.

        • Draco T Bastard


          Thing is, if we gave them the right support they’d probably turn into fine citizens.

          • greywarshark

            Probably the ones ianmac is talking about, the wily, sly slippery types that are fun to see on film running rorts on horse races etc., well they would always be there being the tricksters, but they would also do a job and earn if there were jobs, They would be panelbeaters, van drivers, on roadworks gangs, and labouring guys, jacks of all trades and work when they had to.

            But they would just slip away an hour early or something, or pinch the tea money that was saved for the Friday night drinks. Nothing big, just annoying and if their tendencies were known, you would know to keep an eye on them.

    • BM 10.4

      What a weasel Lees-Galloway is.

      It’s a shame, but it’s what you expect from labour these days.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.4.1

        Labours new motto should read: The end justifies the means

        • weka

          Puckish Rogue today is being a liar, shill and troll. That latest comment looks like flamebaiting too.

          • Jester

            You need to chill Weka. You’re sounding abit unhinged.

          • Nessalt

            Want to prove the he’s telling lies weka? kind of makes you a liar if you are calling someone else a liar when you know they are telling the truth.

            Clucking pretty hard on this aren’t you? thought “gotcha” politics was finally paying off for you?

          • greywarshark

            It’s time that TS tightened up – circulate the trolls with one month stand downs or something. It is not a great blog with all of the wasps trying to make stinging remarks. Put’s me off the picnic, and letting them do it shows that someone is a sandwich short.

            You can send me off for uttering full frank and transparent opinion but it will be no loss to me. And before some grouch says it, you may think it no loss to you. But I think my little excursions add a different perspective, something to break the repetitive skewed comment-and-put-down reply. Ignore them FGS. And I put links usually so add some detail rather than swop self-righteous sneers. That way no-one’s IQ is raised.

        • locus

          @ the sad wee trolls who rush in to derail whenever a national politician has been found wanting or arrogant or a liar:

          your manipulative framing, accusatory remarks and deflections are always transparent, and in my view just add to the overall disgust I have for the dirty politics that have characterised this last national government

          …… English was rightly called out for his cynical and arrogant comments ….. this is not “gotcha politics” this is a Labour politician honestly fed up with the denigration of others

          and the pm’s misleading and twisting to try to muddy the waters won’t get Englih off the hook

    • miravox 10.5

      The thing is, the item you’ve linked to says the PM is complaining that Bill English’s comment was taken out of context. Yet when the paragraph with the apparent context is quoted, the offending phrases are not in it.

      That’s not context or proof of doctoring. That’s spin.

      And yes, the PM is better at spin than Labour. Although frustrated by it, I’m a little bit proud of that.

      • weka 10.5.1

        +1 and me too for the last bit.

        reposting this,

        He knows it’s a lie, but he’s repeating it anyway.

        And that’s what gives away National’s strategy. Both on the flag and on the UBI, their coordinated response is to lie over and over again, and trust enough people will reprint the lies until they become truthy.

        So, how does an opposition respond? Well it can’t stop National telling the lies, because Voltaire. And only the most boring and small-thinking oppositions say so little that there’s no opportunity for malignant mischief from their opponents.

        I think the opposition’s best option is to name the behaviour, over and over again. It works in parenting, and it works with this.

        They say sunlight is the best disinfectant. So when National infects our public conversation with lies and excuses, I’ll be here on Public Address providing a little ray of sun.


    • weka 10.6

      Right, for the people that don’t understand what I am on about I’m back on the laptop now and going to explain.

      PR said,


      “It’s really disappointing actually. They’ve doctored the tape recording to take out the bit where he says ‘this is what some in the industry say’, and they’ve doctored the bit which says ‘we need to help these people to make sure they get employment’.

      Mr Lees-Galloway concedes the recording is a partial one and started recording after hearing a question about immigration. He missed the start of the answer, but maintains what was released is accurate.

      No surprise there, Labour indulging in some Dirty Politics to attempt to score a hit

      Let’s break this down,

      “It’s really disappointing actually. They’ve doctored the tape recording to take out the bit where he says ‘this is what some in the industry say’, and they’ve doctored the bit which says ‘we need to help these people to make sure they get employment’.

      That’s John Key, known liar and Dirty Politics operative. Key lies so routinely now that it’s very easy to see which things in his statement need checking. The word ‘doctoring’ has a big stonking red flag on it, because (a) even Labour wouldn’t be so stupid and (b) it’s got CT carefully selected term written all over it. A word designed to obliterate the truth and do maximum damage. It’s the same old shit.

      Here’s what LG said in response, most of which PR left out,

      Mr Lees-Galloway concedes the recording is a partial one and started recording after hearing a question about immigration. He missed the start of the answer, but maintains what was released is accurate.

      “Nothing’s been rearranged or added or swapped around so I think he’s a bit desperate if he’s trying to clutch at that,” Mr Lees-Galloway says.

      “What we produced was a recording of what Bill English said. All I can say is those are the words Bill English used. The only one who smeared the National Party is Bill English.”

      The recording was stopped after Mr English had finished answering the question.

      So Key says LG doctored the tape. That means something quite specific. LG says the tape was not doctored or altered and that he was late starting recording English so missed a bit. That on the face of it is plausible. He also says that he believes that the points he made yesterday are still relevant.

      There is nothing to suggest that LG doctored the tape apart from an unsubstantiated assertion from Key and from PR. If the tape was doctored, and there was a deliberate decision to misuse the recording to undercut English/National then we might be getting close to Dirty Politics. But it wasn’t. Do I think LG was wise to handle this in the way he did? Probably not, but I didn’t follow all of the coverage yesterday so I don’t really know.

      Did Bill English call a class of young men looking for work ‘pretty damned hopeless’? Yes. Does putting that in context make it more acceptable? Not really. Leaving out the context doesn’t make this Dirty Politics.

      All PR had to do was be honest about all that. Instead he yet again selectively quoted (oh the irony) to do some Labour bashing and to run a nasty RWNJ meme, that Labour do DP as well. They don’t. No-one really does except for National. This doesn’t mean that all other political parties are squeaky clean, and it doesn’t mean that shitty stuff doesn’t happen. But it’s not DP. Which everyone in this conversation already knows, including PR, BM, and Nessalt.

      So, fuck the lot of you who engage in this shit. I’ve had enough of the thread derailments, the slander, and the false framing. I know that PR and BM are both easily capable of putting up intelligent, coherent, meaningful comment from a RW perspective. I have no problem with that. But this lazy-arse trolling and Labour bashing is the politics of the nasty party and I’m just going to keep naming it for what it is.

      Am I overreacting? No idea. PR is a master of the understated trollbait. And wow do you quantify years of this kind of thing undermining political culture? I think it’s more that I’ve just reached the end of my tether.

      Grey, I didn’t really understand you comment, so all I can say is that ignoring trolls doesn’t work, it just cedes the space to them.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11

    NZ innovation

  12. joe90 12

    Thou shalt not criticise.

    Two days after the announcement of her hiring, the Sanders presidential campaign suspended its national Jewish outreach coordinator, Simone Zimmerman, on Thursday after revelations that she had posted vulgarities about Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel on Facebook.

    “She has been suspended while we investigate the matter,” Michael Briggs, a spokesman for Senator Bernie Sanders, wrote in an email.

    Ms. Zimmerman’s suspension comes after a report on Wednesday in The Washington Free Beacon, which found a Facebook post in which she used a vulgarity and described Mr. Netanyahu as “arrogant, deceptive, cynical” and “manipulative.” She then used more aggressive language and continued that he had “sanctioned the murder of over 2,000 people this summer.”


  13. Bob 13

    Has David Cunliffe sold his place in Herne Bay? If not, something seems fishy…

    As Mickeysavage said HERE “They only own the one place and have no other property holdings whatsoever” “Addendum: For the benefit of the National Party Research Unit when I say “own” I mean “have a beneficial interest in””.
    He obviously has no beneficial interest in it any more.

  14. Tautoko Mangō Mata 14

    This is part of an interesting blog discussing :Why Bernie Sanders is LESS protectionist than Hillary Clinton. It deals with the “anti-trade” accusation often levelled at TPP protesters.

    Is opposing trade agreements like NAFTA or TPP anti-free trade?

    In the current election discussions about trade, opponents of post-GATT trade agreements often get tarred with the brush of Donald Trump-like xenophobia. It is worth remembering that these agreements, while admittedly taking further the kind of tariff-cutting begun with the GATT, are not primarily about non-discriminatory free trade. They reflect neo-liberal ideas about optimal economic governance and public policy that have been, rightly challenged, both from the perspective of national sovereignty, but also from a more cosmopolitan point of view (particularly the protection of monopoly rents from intellectual property). Among the clearest explanations of these difference is to be found in Dani Rodrik’s The Globalization Paradox: the “deep integration” to which post-GATT trade agreements seek is not really based in classic free trade theory but a more recent and more questionable (and questioned) economic orthodoxy.


    If you click on comments, there is this illuminating gem:
    “first, in a couple places, you seem to equate intellectual property rules in trade agreements with neoliberalism. I can’t speak for all neoliberals, but as a card-carrying neoliberal myself, let me just note that in my view, the excessive intellectual property protections in modern trade agreements are the furthest thing from neoliberal. In fact, they are better described as statist interventionism/corporate welfare than neoliberalism.”

    TPP ain’t free trade!

  15. lprent 15

    That was annoying. The outage just after 1500 was caused by an upgrade to WordPress 4.5. One of the plugins that is not in the test system; a plugin tester that was meant to be uninstalled months ago, was still in the real system. Apparently because its admin directory had a live open and unmoveable file.

    It was calling a deprecated wordpress function that was removed in 4.5. That call to deprecated API was actually the reason I removed it in the first place.

    So the upgrade caused the site to fail…. but it’d worked fine when testing. Now to write a better sync between the test system and the real site.

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