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Open mike 15/12/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 15th, 2015 - 123 comments
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123 comments on “Open mike 15/12/2015 ”

  1. Paul 1

    The 1 million who voted for National in 2014 don’t care about people in poverty.
    All they worry about is their increased house prices and who won My Kitchen Rules.
    That’s why the National party can and will just ignore stories like this.

    Our crowded houses: Barely enough to cover the rent

    ‘An alarming number of Auckland families are being forced to live together in one house so they can afford rent and living expenses, a leading budgeting adviser says.
    Mangere Budgeting Services chief executive Darryl Evans said many families in Auckland were forced to live together to afford basic means of living.

    “Families simply can’t afford to pay between 60 to 65 per cent of their weekly income to the landlord, which the vast majority of them are having to pay, and unfortunately there is little left over after you have paid rent to pay the power, buy food and live,” Mr Evans said.

    “So some families are losing their homes to rental arrears. There has been a lot of people made redundant this year which has also added to it and there is not enough social houses available,” Mr Evans said.
    “What happens is, existing families living in a state house will naturally want to support their family that have lost their home and they get them to move in, but the difficulty of getting them to move in is … overcrowding,” he said.
    While overcrowding has become a solution for many desperate families, Mr Evans said it was dangerous because those families became far more prone to serious illness.’


    Child Poverty is everyone’s problem – Children’s Commissioner

    ‘Nearly one-third of all New Zealand children are living in poverty and more than half of those kids will never escape it.
    The latest Child Poverty Monitor report, released by Children’s Commissioner Russell Wills today, laid out a grim reality for more than 300,000 children. ‘


    • Paul 1.1

      ‘Child poverty – it’s not choice.” That’s the message that outgoing Children’s Commissioner Dr Russell Wills wants to spread through social media in a challenge to Government policy.

      His latest annual Child Poverty Monitor, out today, says children living in households earning below 60 per cent of the median household income after housing costs, have almost doubled from 15 per cent of all children in 1984 to 29 per cent last year. Children hospitalised with poverty-related illnesses more than doubled in the 1990s and have increased further in the recent recession.

      “Everything points to things being far tougher than they were 30 years ago. That’s not right in a country like ours and it’s not fair,” said Dr Wills, whose five-year term as Children’s Commissioner ends in June. “Today I’m asking New Zealanders to show they share our concern by spreading the message #itsnotchoice.


        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Have a listen to Gabriel Makhlouf if you can stomach it (trigger warning – more children are going to die as a direct result of this man’s idle fantasies). Bags ideology then spouts a load of ideology.

          Marvel, as he pretends that the poor condition of state houses is an inevitable consequence of state ownership. Vomit, as he explains what “would” happen on Planet Treasury.

          They haven’t learned one damn thing in thirty years, and they’re still intoning the litany.

          Edit: oh hah I see you beat me to it.

      • Olwyn 1.1.2

        Well said Paul. I just want to add a couple of points. Firstly, child poverty should not be separated from adult poverty – the former results from the latter, and the latter is brought about intentionally within the current system. Why else would you undermine the unions’ ability to bargain, continuously raise the bar for getting a benefit, allow rampant, across-the-board housing inflation alongside low wages, etc, etc? Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel sure I heard that deported guy living in Invercargill say on RNZ that his situation in NZ is in some ways worse than on Christmas Island, which if I heard right, should give us pause.

        Meanwhile, the government has plans to reward “social housing providers” whose “tenants” meet certain desirable conditions: in other words, in exchange for a modest and tenuous level of security, people will need to lay their lives open to the broad scrutiny and judgement of their landlords. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11560981

        What is needed is real push-back against a system to which the impoverishment and virtual enslavement of those at the bottom is intrinsic. A conception of human rights that excludes the right to adequate secure housing and the right to earn a living is a deficient one.

    • gsays 1.2

      hi paul, after listening to morning report this morning, i see your error.
      according to guyon espiner, this child poverty measure is actually measuring inequality.
      so if i have $100,000 and you have $300,000 that is inequality but neither of us is in poverty.
      no problem, you need to look at this in a different way.

      this from our ‘prestige’ broadcaster!
      how such a serious, endemic, growing problem can be dealt with in such a glib fashion beggars belief.

      • Paul 1.2.1

        How much does Guyon Espiner earn?
        Therein lies the answer to his appalling approach.
        He seems a lot more upset about Nurofen than child poverty.

        Link to Espiner’s ghastly interview

        • gsays

          perhaps depravation to the middle class is an overextracted flat white in the morning.

          • Rosie

            Hi g. I think we need to relook at the who the middle classes are. We need a sociologist to redefine for us what the middle class looks like in NZ in 2015.

            Many in NZ society have been on a backwards slide, including the former middle class while others in that group have successfully popped out of their comfortable existence into one that is is positively wealthy.

            I’m not sure if we should feel such cynicism towards this “middle class” when we don’t know their true circumstances. I think your over extracted flat white customer might be more towards the upper, privileged middle class bracket. Your average middle class might still be on the instant.

            As for coffee, I only get to drink coffee out about twice a month our financial circumstances are that dire, so it has to be absolutely perfect when we do go out. For us that is a real treat so the pleasure stakes are high.

            • Once was Tim

              “We need a sociologist to redefine for us what the middle class looks like in NZ in 2015”
              There are sociologists looking at it (at least as of 2008/2010 that I know of). Unfortunately my dotage and memory function means I cannot immediately recall their names – it’ll probably come to me tomorrow).

              That ‘middle class’ really doesn’t exist as we once knew it. One thing’s for sure though, we can likely say that many members of that ‘middle class’ club are one step away from the precariat if and when their job(s) “go away”. Laden with debt at the bottom end (often a necessity to survive); and smug, uncompassionate, holier-than-thou whilst employed at the ‘top end’.
              If only that muddle class would consider where they might be if they had to cash-up tomorrow. I suggest many of them will be squealing like stuffed pigs and considering their voting patterns.

              I agree Rosie – there really needs to be a review.
              I mean to say – that muddle class on the three tier structure we once knew could include the fair and balanced incisive current affairs journalist with a balanced portfolio and work-life balance – to the ‘tradie’ doing ‘cashie’ jobs ‘under the radar going forward’ – sometimes FOR that incisive journalist.

              I can honestly say I won’t be surprised or heartbroken (that’s if it holds out long enough for me to witness) if and when the crash comes – it might very well be the only way someone will hit the RESET button and start holding those who’ve amassed wealth by devious means to account.
              My how history repeats eh?

              • Rosie

                HI OWT. I thought there may be some kind of research going on but am out of reach of that kind of knowledge these days.

                I dunno if those who fall will change their voting patterns – I wonder if we are so far removed the concept of party policy and values, that they just wouldn’t get that their fortunes in part are influenced by political ideology. We do seem, a bit, you know, slow to acknowledge that.

                Furthermore, there must, there must, there must be those who have fallen with a fairly hard bump in recent years (I’m back in the same precarious state of existence, comparatively, I was when I was 20, and I wasn’t necessarily comfortable before but had enough to get by and buy a meal out more than once a year) BUT there has been no change of government, and we’re 7 years in already…………..

                If there are those that downsizing the house, the car, going without holidays (wow, imagine going on a holiday!) not going to the cinema anymore etc then they are being very very very quiet about it.

              • Ad

                My definition of middle class would go something like this combination:

                – Has a house with a mortgage
                – Has at least two cars
                – Goes on overseas holidays of at least two weeks’ duration
                – Wants to own a bach or a rental
                – Has a career (as distinct from a job), or a small business
                – Has support network so when they have a major life event, they are helped up

                • Rosie

                  Yes, that sort of picture was in my mind. Insightful with the “wants” to own a bach, rental, as well as has support network.

                  Also, I think this person doesn’t have trouble paying unexpected bills like urgent dental work, major car repairs or emergency house maintenance – there will be enough to cover those costs.

                  • Ad

                    I was tempted to include that, but felt if they can cope with “major life event”, then they can cope.

            • Stuart Munro

              Home ownership is a pretty good rule of thumb for middle class – it insulates you from income insecurities and real estate inflation.

            • gsays

              hi rosie, ad and co,
              the other attitude with this middle class i sneer about is the self centred approach to life.
              almost anti-community.
              i would include less affluent members of our community in this ‘middle class’.

              btw i am very fortunate to have a near perfect cup of joe most mornings.
              a schlong.

          • Paul

            Espiner is not middle class.
            I would imagine his salary is comfortably in the top 2%

            • Once was Tim

              @ Paul (nice name btw). I wasn’t thinking of Espiner at the time I mentioned the journalist. There is another who mostly does good stuff – but she really should get over herself at times (and I don’t mean Kim Hill either!)

          • left for deadshark

            You joke, and a chalk mark on the tyre, when they return to their vehicle.

      • Muttonbird 1.2.2

        Guyon, a spinner.

    • Rosie 1.3

      Hi Paul. The stuffed article is well written. I don’t know whether it was intentionally written in a way that was so crystal clear, with the intention of educating their readership. I was expecting the usual stupid and mean people who comment on stuff would back off when provided with facts, graphs you can’t argue with and statements from various child poverty campaign groups about the “Kiwi compassion drought”……….

      But straight up and straight into it they were off with their ill informed, biased, opinionated and hateful remarks that they have used on every story on poverty. They never learn. To be honest, I only got 6 comments in before having to close it.

      I really am wondering whether the internetz have given rise to a new type of vicious or whether people are becoming more cruel and less community minded, or a combination of both.

      Have a read of JDarroch’s post on shooting the messenger and you will see a whole new level of publicly directed viciousness – the “anti SAFE” group, like rednecks on steroids.

      I often feel sad about the increasing selfishness and stupidity in our society.

      • Paul 1.3.1

        Sadly 30 years of neo-liberalism has seen a lot of people who grew up in the 80s and 90s who were indoctrinated into neo-Darwinist thinking and never knew what a functioning society can look like. The housing bubble has made them think that it was their success that made them rich.
        Only a collapse ( and their own downfall) will make them the realise the benefits of a society that cares for everyone, including the vulnerable.
        Those older know better and their views simply reflect their greedy selfish outlook on the world. Douglas, Prebble, Shipley, Richardson, Key and Bennett are examples of these bludgers. Benefited from that bigger society, then took it away from those below.
        I hold some hope for those born in the 90s and later and they grew up at the time of the crash of 2008 and can see for themselves that shallow selfish greed cannot work.

        • Rosie

          “I hold some hope for those born in the 90s and later and they grew up at the time of the crash of 2008 and can see for themselves that shallow selfish greed cannot work.”

          There are some amazing talented young people in the youth wings of Labour and Green. They have everything stacked against them in regard to their future but it will be their future leadership that will lift everyone. They need our support and encouragement.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.3.2

        I really am wondering whether the internetz have given rise to a new type of vicious or whether people are becoming more cruel and less community minded, or a combination of both.

        There’s always been that underbelly of people who are cruel, vicious and not community minded. The internet has just made them more visible. This should allow the rest of us to do something about them.

        • Rosie

          And you’re very skilful at dealing with them Draco. Unfortunately for me they exist IRL and I have to deal with them in that zone. Not sure which is worse. Probably IRL.

          • Draco T Bastard

            I was thinking more along the lines of rules and regulations that stop these arseholes actually having an effect upon other people.

      • marty mars 1.3.3

        yep I read some of the comments under that article and felt crook after – this is why we have key and his cronies.

    • Chooky 1.4

      +100 Paul…good points….New Zealand is becoming a grim place for those at the bottom of the heap…and especially New Zealand children…our future

      …affordable housing for New Zealand families is crucial

    • Colonial Viper 1.5

      “The 1 million who voted for National in 2014 don’t care about people in poverty.”

      What about the 1 million people who didn’t vote against National, who didn’t vote at all. Most of them are people in poverty, or close to it.

  2. The Chairman 2

    With the holiday period just about upon us, it’s a timely reminder to highlight our unforgiving roads.

    A number of Kiwis and tourist die or are injured on our roads every year.

    Therefore, isn’t it time we do more to improve the safety of our roads?

    As upfront costs are a factor, I suggest, along with improving national black-spots, their should be a concentrated effort to safe proof state highway 1.

    Lighting, median-barriers, sidebars and breakdown lanes from Kaitaia to the Bluff.

    This will save many lives going forward (thus accident related costs) while also improving the safety of tourists using our roads.


    • vto 2.1

      drive at 90


      but seriously, numpty tourist drivers are the biggest other-driver risk down south. Install alarms on rental cars that go nuts if you cross the white line. Also simple

      • BM 2.1.1

        Explain to me how the car will know it’s crossed the white line?

      • The Chairman 2.1.2

        Driving at 90 doesn’t prevent another car crossing the centre-line and colliding head-on with me. Nor does it give me scope to take evasive action.

        Therefore, stating driving at 90 is a simplistic statement that overlooks the impact (on accidents) unforgiving roads play.

        • Pasupial

          Driving at 90 gives you more time to react to emergencies and reduces impact force, it also improves fuel efficiency. Plus there’s no chance of being snapped by speed cameras, if you need a purely self-interested reason. The only downside is that you may irritate those other drivers who put speed before safety.

          Though better to say; drive to the conditions at a maximum of 90km, in rain or at night on a gravel road even that is way too fast. Also, remember to rest for 10 minutes for every hour of driving. These are things that you can do now within the present infrastructure, to improve road safety for others as well as yourself. The Chairman’s suggestion may have merit, but won’t be happening anytime soon and won’t help if you’re off SH1. Plus no matter how the roading may improve in the future you’re still going to be safer if you are; cautious, rested, sober and undistracted.

          VTO’s point about the perils of encountering someone on the wrong side of the road (most notoriously tourists, but also drunks, sleepers, and hoons) is a good one. I can see how the white lines could be laser-detected and hooked up to an alarm on rental cars (something that is evidently beyond BM’s medieval understanding of the world), however the implementation of such a scheme would be anything but simple. Deal with the world as it is, not how you would like it to be.

          Keep safe everyone!

      • Sabine 2.1.3

        and watch others trying to overtake on a straight line, cause they are bored witless.
        and watch people fall asleep

        rather make good roads faster, and hard roads slower. There is no need for some of the little windy roads to be a hundred.

        Making everything ninety, just to watch people go over it, and the blue berry muffing brigade get hard while writing tickets is not the answer.

        And last but least, finally make compulsory for new wanna be drivers to actually have driving lessons before they get to drive. It makes no sense that bad drivers (parents) get to train their children to be bad drivers, as clearly the only time they have to be good drivers is to pass the test.

        • Adrian

          Two points, windy roads wake drivers up, a bit of adrenaline a it more awareness. 90 kms on our main highways puts drivers to sleep.
          About ten years ago the Police instigated a ” 100 kph not a km” over rule for Christmas to Easter, At the end of it about 75 more people were dead than other years. To paraphrase ” We can’t work it out, there were a lot of older people, single car, straight road accidents and they weren’t speeding ! ”
          No you dipsticks, they fell asleep.
          I did a lot of driving that summer and the roads were full of older drivers who were doing around 90 or less because they were scared of getting a ticket, but crucially they were driving slower than their stimulation speed, for want of a better term.
          Driving a modern car at a slowish speed is like watching a road unwind on TV in front of you while sitting in an armchair while listening to classical or MOR music.
          Try, see how long you last.

          • Kevin

            What a load of shit you talk.

            Tiredness, time of day/night, gender, whether you have chilren and other factors determines whether you fall asleep, not speed.

            In fact research has shown that people are more like to fall asleep on FAST sections of road.

            There is plenty of research out there on this. I suggest you read it before spouting off another load of rubbish.

      • Rosemary McDonald 2.1.4

        or….everyone drive at 95km/hr.

        Why? So there is no need for light vehicles to pass us heavy vehicles who have to (well supposed to) travel at 90. All vehicles with the same maximum speed.

        There is some devil that possesses many kiwi drivers that seemingly forces them to pass the vehicle in front of them.

        Impatience is the problem…and lack of the ability to consider how much later you’re going to get there if you have a prang.

        We have “Patience” written in large and friendly letters fore and aft on our housebus…seems to inflame some drivers.

        Be mindful out there folks….

    • Rosie 2.2

      Hi Chairman.

      Agree our roads are not the best. However, as a sales rep driving the lower north Island for two years and previously driving in Auckland I consistently witnessed poor driving skills and lack of road code knowledge. Personally I think we’re just shit drivers in NZ. In my driving days I was constantly sending community roadwatch forms into the Police to report dangerous driving.

      Driving around now, just locally and in a limited way I still continue to witness appalling driving. Last Friday I was involved in 3 near misses just because of drivers that should not be in charge of a vehicle being on the road.

      The last edition of the AA magazine published their report into tourist driver fatalities and accidents. They actually make up a very small number of our annual number of crashes. While tourist crashes had a higher representation in tourists hot spots in the South Island they were still low compared to the national average. There has been a hugely disproportionate media focus on tourist drivers.

      I’m sorry I don’t have the actual figures, the magazine is long gone, out with the recycling.

      Maybe it makes a good news story during the slow summer months or maybe it just stirs up a bit of that ‘fear of the other” vibe.

      Remember in the summer holidays you’ve got people on the road who are not familiar with driving long distance and you’ve got fatigued people driving. It makes the roads that more dangerous in summer.

      Yes, make improvements to our roads but theres little you can do about bad drivers.

      • The Chairman 2.2.1

        I agree. Poor and bad driving plays a role. But improved roading can help with that. Allowing room for evasive action to be taken. With centre-line barriers preventing a bad driver from crossing the road. Along with lighting helping guide those on unfamiliar roads and sidebars keeping them on the road, opposed to going down a bank or into a river or ocean.

        A couple of other measures could be applied to help combat bad driving.

        Private motor vehicles could be designed so they can’t breach the open road limit.

        Defensive driving courses could be made compulsory.

        • Rosie

          “Defensive driving courses could be made compulsory.”


          btw, one of the most nuts dangerous bit of roads I’ve driven that would benefit from your suggestions is a the Rimutaka Hill road between Wellington and the Wairarapa. I am constantly amazed with the flow of traffic on that road that there isn’t more crashes, deaths and drivers going over the cliff.

      • tracey 2.2.2

        Drove the Tauranga and back yesterday. Used crusie control (except when passing )

        I saw two instances where trucks overtook each other in a passing lane which meant no one else could pass. The front truck (which had passed) then travelled at about 85k. You could sense the frustration of the drivers ahead of me. I had Blondie playing so was happy enough 😉

        Others travel at front of long lines of ttraffic oblivious to the lines behind them. Many timeas at 15k or more below the speed limit.

        The good news was I saw NO dangerous overtaking.

        Leaving Auckland (Penrose) at at 720am, I continue to be amazed at how many Aucklanders, including commercial truckss plop themselves into the fast lane and do about 85 kph.

        • The Chairman

          I was up the far north a couple of weeks ago. The roads were wet, warning signs galore: roads greasy when wet – slow down.

          It was if the warning signs were a challenge for drivers to drive faster and follow closer. With unforgiving roads and driver attitudes like just described, it’s no wonder there are so many accidents up that way.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      The obvious solution is to get people off the roads and into trains. This will help with climate change and prevent deaths.

      • Puckish Rogue 2.3.1

        The obvious solution is to make all state highways four lanes, this would stop people getting frustrated with slow drivers, stop people doing dangerous over taking manoeuvres and would create a burst of economic activity especially to the regions

        • Draco T Bastard

          That would cost more and not really achieve anything.

          But I’m not really surprised that a RWNJ would reach for the most expensive solution that doesn’t work.

          • Yeah Puckish Rogue

            Yeah it would, the slow, hesitant drivers can stick to the left lane and the confident, normal drivers can keep to the right

            Plus I thought you’d be all over the government stepping and creating a make-work scheme

            • Draco T Bastard

              Yeah it would, the slow, hesitant drivers can stick to the left lane and the confident, normal drivers can keep to the right

              That can already be done on the present roads and it’s not working so assuming doing more of it just brings up this saying:
              Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

              Plus I thought you’d be all over the government stepping and creating a make-work scheme

              Why would you think that considering that I’ve said, on multiple occasions, that we need to destroy jobs and the need for work?

        • Once was Tim

          That presupposes people keep left unless passing and stop driving like it was some sort of competition whereby they need to get ahead of others (just for the sake of it).
          It doesn’t solve things like indiscriminate lane changing; failing to indicate intentions; observing the 1 second rule when it actually is a 2 second rule; etc.

          There’d be a burst of economic activity if we resurrected the railways too. (you know – those two parallel lines of iron designed to carry the masses (and the most fishint n fectiv way of carrying freight) that we must not speak of.

        • tracey

          Not in Auckland. The idiots would simply move their shit to the fourth lane.

          Getting trucks OUT of the fast lane on Motorways would also help.

          Building more and more roads has yet to be a panacea to our nation’s most vulnerable, so it is no solution in the future.

  3. Northsider 3


    Can anyone tell me the location and date of the Labour Party dinner Stuart Nash is hosting for Roger Douglas, Michael Bassett, Ken Shirley and Labour “A” Listers?

    I’d like to protest at the event.

  4. Chooky 4

    Many here find RT a useful read and source of reference and opinion on world affairs…not least because RT is not afraid to explore opinions from all sides and resources some of the best USA journalists, international experts from academia, think tanks and intelligence analysts

    …but what /who is RT and its history?

    ‘RT`s world’


    “Ten years ago this week RT started to carve out its mark in international broadcasting – and what a ride it has been! Never far from controversy, this network has prided itself on being different and saying what many dare not utter in public. In this edition of CrossTalk, we ask how RT has changed the media environment.

    CrossTalking with Rob Taub, John Laughland, and Dmitry Babich.”

    ( also for light summer viewing)




  5. James 5


    Nats on 51.3%

    John Key sitting on 65.2% as preferred prime minister.

    Good news for Labour however with them out of the 20%’s.

    On the latest polls in December – National can either govern alone, or close to it.

    Still reading the standard – people are still thinking Little is doing an outstanding job.

    Whithout blaming the voters for being stupid just because they disagree with you – why do you think Labour is so far behind National?

    The Leader, Policies, The MP’s? Or are they just not relevant anymore?

    • tracey 5.1

      Child poverty
      Sexual Violence changes in our Justic System
      Pissing contest with James????

      Thinking, thinking, thinking

    • Puckish Rogue 5.2

      No no you don’t understand, Mr Little just needs more time so the voters of NZ can get to know him 😉

      • Colonial Viper 5.2.1

        Halfway through term 3 and Labour can still get zero traction against the Key government. And Cunliffe had Labour just as high in the polls as it is now.

        You’d think that someone would realise that Labour is no longer fit for purpose.

        • Puckish Rogue

          For what its worth I feel for you, you obviously care deeply and you can see whats wrong but no one will listen to you

        • Hami Shearlie

          Yet many say Cunliffe was so unpopular with the public? Little has similar ratings for preferred PM, yet he is proclaimed as doing a great job! The whole thing stinks to high heaven! David Cunliffe had mere months in that top job that included an election, and forces from within and without against him throughout his entire time as leader. Little has had none of that stress. His screen persona is still wooden and without charisma.

          • Colonial Viper

            again obvious to those other than those who are being deliberately obtuse.

          • Chooky

            +100 CV and Hami Shearlie…Labour should have stuck by David Cunliffe…the rank and file membership wanted him

            …so imo time for a new Labour Party with Mana

          • Northsider

            Cunliffe had the support of membership in the leadership battle, after the change of rules at the Ellerslie Conference.
            Robertson, Wellington apparatchik and Shearer’s real campaign manager, had collected more Caucus votes.
            Robertson & Co were never never ever ever going to accept that outcome. With his inside track on all the staff who had been hired into Labour Parliamentary roles he managed to make the whole environment around Cunliffe.

            Cunliffe’s mistake was to try to accomodate Robertson: Robertson considered Cunliffe’s leadership to be illegitimate. Robertson never accepted that the Membership could select a leader that the majority of the Caucus didn’t select. That is why Little has given into Robertson’s condition: that Cunliffe be humiliated.

    • millsy 5.3

      I have thought about this, and it seems that a lot of people think that Labour merely wants to do a ‘system restore’ back to 2008 (or 1984) settings, where as National want to upgrade – it might not be to an OS we are liking, but it is a new one nonetheless.

      Time the left upgraded.

      We need to look forward, not back.

      • Colonial Viper 5.3.1

        You are exactly correct.

        However, Labour is incapable of operating on anything other than COBOL.

      • Vaughan Little 5.3.2

        little gave robertson the future of work assignment. Labour’s had some great policy platforms these past seven years. i hate what cullen did but he had his goals and met them. so in that respect he was competent, unlike english. labour is easy to paint as retarded but it’s been able to set goals and meet them while in government, just oftentimes the wrong ones. it’s anything but a hidebound party. it’s just too easy to push lazy propagandaonto such a crcredulous population. plus you have to face the fact that many people – including virtually the entire landlord class – are vicious, awful people who live off extracting the life blood from their countrymen. they are your voting centre who swung from Helen and into key’s pocket. monkeys chasing peanuts.

    • Paul 5.4

      See my comment at 1.3.1.

    • Stuart Munro 5.5

      The failure of the MSM to report the Gnats tragic economic performance is major. A lot of folk think they’re doing basically the right thing, rather than a slow motion train wreck.

  6. tracey 6

    Just a heads up from Wayne Mapp that the Law Commission’s report on Allternative Models for Sexual violence cases has been released.

    Do not know if I will get to a post on it, but would love to see someone do a post.

    Cursory reading looks good.


    For the record, it doesn’t appear Wayne was involved in this one or the National Security report which came out yesterdaya nd which I have posted. I am sure he will correct me if he was involved.

  7. Jenny Kirk 7

    I’ve been wondering that too, James.
    There’s a little bit of movement lately upwards for Labour ….. but this past year for Labour has been about sorting itself internally – doesn’t make for constant headlines, and it appears its only when a politician is in the headlines that they get traction. And as you might have noted, ShonKey is constantly in the headlines – even over silly little things – even being given fossil awards for being irresponsible re climate change – and the popularity continues.

  8. Anne 8

    Wow oh wow… Kiwipolitico (it’s in the feed column 3 times but will also link here) is a must read. I will go further and say various aspects are worthy of posts in themselves if any TS author is interested.


    A small taster:

    As it turns out, the Police did more than ask various service providers to give them access to Mr. Hager’s private information, and they did so just before and then very quickly after a complaint was laid about the source of the material from which Dirty Politics was constructed (the infamous or heroic hacker known as Rawshark, depending on how you view things).

    That tells me the police were already investigating BEFORE Slater laid his complaint. They had already been instructed by the PM’S OFFICE to “find out Rawshark’s identity? Yep.

    • Anne 8.1

      Correction to last sentence: They were already under instruction from John Key/PM’s Office to “find out who Rawshark is”.

    • veutoviper 8.2

      I agree that Pablo’s post at Kiwipolitico is a MUST READ.

      It is yet another piece of the jigsaw puzzle of revelations coming from the OIA request by Scoop for the court submissions etc relating to the Judicial Review into the police raid of Nicky Hager’s house in 2014.

      There have been a number of other excellent posts on a range of blogs over the last month or so also analysing the Review submissions. Some of these are now well off the front pages of these blogs, so I thought I would start making a consolidated list of these for anyone who is interested and may have missed some.

      Firstly, here are the full Scoop papers (both links contain other links).


      Keith Ng also had a post a few weeks ago in his On Point section of Public Address focusing on a piece of paper found and seized by the police during the search in their efforts to identify Rawshark. Ng’s post analyses the implications of this piece of paper, and their suspicions that Rangi Kemara might be Rawshark through the communications between WO and Ben Rachinger.


      There are others, but I have run out of time for now. Will update my list in spare moments over the forthcoming ‘silly season’.

      EDIT – Another one that came to mind immediately I hit send.

      Giovanni Tiso wrote this post on 30 November on his blog. He attended the Judicial Review court hearings and reported on these at the time.


      • Anne 8.2.1

        I wish karol was still around. She was superb when it came to analysing this sort of material. However, we have authors and others here who could do a very good job too.

        • veutoviper

          Ditto re karol. I hope she is OK, as she has not commented on her Twitter account or blog since March (?) this year; but when I raised this some time ago here, someone commented that she had indicated that she was moving in other directions.
          I used to be very good at such analysis (research and analysis was a big part of my work skills/experience) but retirement/health/ home downsizing etc requires I focus on other priorities at present. But my memory is still good (!) as are my abilities to locate information, articles etc despite my other limited computer skills. But there seems to be a lot of analysis etc going on quietly behind the scenes on this particular event and its consequences etc. Once the results of the Judicial review are released, I anticipate a lot of interest, opinion etc in the more public media.

          • Anne

            You do a great job here v.v. It’s very much appreciated by all.

            • tracey

              Doule ditto.

              And I miss felix’s ability to sum stuff up both intelligently and pithily. Sadly TRP’s ego at the time spoilt that.

    • lprent 8.3

      it’s in the feed column 3 times but will also link here

      I finally figured out what the problem was with that on the weekend. Figuring out a fix is going to be a bit harder. I may just hack a ‘signature’ fix.

    • Pablo 8.4

      Thanks Anne.

      One clarification. I have amended the section of the post quoted to reflect the fact that a Police investigation plan was put into effect before the formal complaint was made (after an email from Mr. Slater to Assistant Commissioner Malcolm Burgess), and that the investigation was ramped up rapidly once the complaint was lodged. This is documented in David Fisher’s article in the NZ Herald (page A3) on November 14, 2015, which draws on the Police files obtained under Discovery and released by the High Court. These have been complied by Scoop and are cited with links in my post.

      • Anne 8.4.1

        Thanks for the clarification Pablo.

        The clarification:

        As it turns out, the Police did more than ask various service providers to give them access to Mr. Hager’s private information, and they got things rolling just before and then accelerated the investigation very quickly after a complaint was laid…

        It doesn’t change the basis of my suspicion the police were… made aware they were to leave no stone un-turned in their endeavour to identify Rawshark, and the instruction probably originated from the PM’s Office. It will be impossible to prove of course, and the motivation behind the instruction had nothing to do with “upholding the laws of the land” but rather to avenge Rawshark for exposing their dirty little game.

        • Pablo

          It is interesting that Slater was able to get in touch directly with Assistant Commissioner Burgess, who rather than ignore him immediately turned around and ordered elements of organised and cyber crime units in the NCIG to get going on planning the case for catching Rawshark–6 days before Slater formally made his complaint. Again, the Fisher article in the Herald has more detail on this.

          Were it that those of us who have been burgled or otherwise been victims of crime had such a rapid high level response to our plights!

          • Anne

            Were it that those of us who have been burgled or otherwise been victims of crime had such a rapid high level response to our plights.

            Correct. As the victim of unlawful actions covertly carried out – and with a political aspect to some of them – I had the ignominious experience of being ignored by the NZ police. It was as if they concluded I deserved the conduct meted out to me. It happened 20 odd years ago and my respect for, and trust in them is now virtually non-existent.

          • tracey

            That access, and speed of access is what the media ignore at our peril.

  9. Jenny Kirk 9

    Fascinating info in Pablo’s post. Will be interesting to see if anyone in the MSM actually picks up on these details and runs something in the silly season …… or whether it will just all slide into oblivion in 2016.
    And it will be really useful to have Veutoviper’s list as it develops. I missed Keith Ng’s one – must go back and read it.

    • Anne 9.1

      Well, its up to Labour, the Greens and NZ First to ensure it doesn’t slide into oblivion . Once they start to see the actual evidence of the dirty, deceitful and unlawful antics of Key/Slater and co., voter-land may not be so gormless and sleepy about it all.

      • tracey 9.1.1

        Interesting that the CE of Xero had a stoush with Slater, then they made up and 24 hours later an employee of Xero announced she is standing for mayor. Coincidence I am sure.

        • Anne

          Heard V Crone on Morning Report this morning. Her answers to questions were superficial – way out of her depth I’d say. Goff came across as a vastly superior candidate. Mind you, that doesn’t mean a lot given the gullible propensities of today’s voting public.

          • Tracey

            And the machinary behind her and all that means.

          • tracey

            IF, as I suspect, Collins knew about this, then Ms Crone will have Mr Slater’s awful machinery at her disposal… not that she will ever directly use it, but others will do it, even without her consent I bet.

            Note how quickly Xero CEO made up with slater… I have my tinfoilhat on but nonetheless…the timing of it all

  10. Jenny Kirk 10

    Fascinating info in Pablo’s post. Will be interesting to see if anyone in the MSM actually picks up on these details and runs something in the silly season …… or whether it will just all slide into oblivion in 2016.

  11. Chris 11

    Good to see that punches aren’t being pulled just because IHC is seen as one of the respectable charities.


    Far from respectable, this latest behaviour exposes the truth about the National party stooges who’ve been running this filthy right-wing organisation for a long time now. Rather than standing up for the rights of people with disabilities their MO is riding high up the government’s arse. Despicable pigs.

  12. Penny Bright 12

    Regarding business woman Victoria Crone confirming her standing in the 2016 Auckland Mayoralty.

    The voting public are truly spoiled for choice for ‘centre-right’ (pro-corporate / pro-Auckland ‘Supercity’) Auckland Mayoral candidates!

    Stephen Berry
    Mark Thomas
    Phil Goff
    Victoria Crone

    (Isn’t it basic ‘Electoral Politics 101’ NOT to ‘split the vote’?)

    Gosh – I hope John Banks, John Palino, Judith Collins and Maurice Williamson all throw their hats into the ring as well!

    The more the merrier?

    (Seems Auckland business interests are arguably not presenting a ‘united front’ on their preferred choice of 2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate?)

    Seems that the only confirmed 2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate with a proven track record of defending the public and the public (as opposed to corporate) interests, is me?

    Here’s the thing.

    The difference between the ‘1%’ and the ‘99%’ ( the corporate minority, and supporters) and the public majority, is that the latter represent FAR more of the voting public, because there are HEAPS more of the public ’99’%?

    Also – lest we forget – in 2013 the voter turnout in Auckland was only 36%.

    How are the four, (in my view) ‘pro-corporate’ 2016 Mayoral candidates, going to inspire the 64% non-voting masses to get off their bottoms and vote for one of them?

    Where/ what is their proven track record in defending the public and public interest?

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    • Ad 12.1

      Are you centre-right or centre-left politically?


    • kenny 12.2

      ‘How are the four, (in my view)’pro-corporate’ 2016 Mayoral candidates, going to inspire the 64% non-voting masses to get off their bottoms and vote for them’

      Why would the 4 candidates want to do that? They are not interested in those 64% non-voters.

  13. Draco T Bastard 13

    Polling still showing that the effort put into changing the flag by this government is a waste.

  14. savenz 14

    Very inspiring video from Russel Norman/Greenpeace – if only the political parties could show some sort of inspiration and united force like this…..


  15. Ad 15

    The redoubtable environmental champion Gary Taylor puts the case for a major increase in Department of Conservation funding in today’s http://www.dompost.co.nz
    He includes:

    – extra $12m for wilding pine removal
    – extra $17.2m on predator control
    – extra $10m on community partnerships
    – extra $11.8m on core competencies

    He concludes:
    “Let’s recognize that investing in nature is a perfectly valid way of growing the economy”

    Good time to get the voice in to Wellington as Departmental budget drafts are proposed up for Ministers to consider over the break.

    • b waghor 15.1

      They should leave the pines alone
      A the planet needs trees no tussock.
      B they’ll never win .especially if financial times get real hard.

  16. Lanthanide 16

    Breaking news:
    Government’s books go back into deficit as Bill English realises he can only kick the can so far down the road by fiddling with EQC payments: http://www.interest.co.nz/news/79160/budget-forecast-dip-back-defict-201516-govt-increases-capital-spending-nz1-bln-english

    • Tracey 16.1

      I am sure they never said they would stay in surplus just that they would get back to surplus. Nothing to see here. Look John Key draped in his favourite flag.

      • Kiwiri 16.1.1

        They are fine with going into deficit in the next few months.
        The thing to watch is they are putting together a package of lolly scramble for GE2017 because of their determination to win that.
        So what has the Little-Robertson-King team been working on as policy and strategic responses?

  17. adam 17

    I’ve been meaning to keep you all up to date on this.

    A person I know was arrested in this raid, but broke themselves out of prison and are on the run, the latest I’ve heard is they are out of China. So happy about that.

    However, some of those arrested are missing and this is fast turning into a nightmare. Missing in China generally means bad, bad things.


  18. Penny Bright 18


    My request for Speaking Rights has been granted at the upcoming CEO Review Committee of Auckland Council, to be held:

    WHEN: Wednesday 16 December 2015
    TIME: 11.30am
    WHERE: Level 26, Room 1
    135 Albert St
    Auckland Central

    The following is my intended subject matter for this meeting:

    1) A reminder to the CEO Review Committee meeting of the statutory duties of the CEO, as outlined in s.42 of the underpinning Local Government Act 2002:


    42 Chief executive

    (1) A local authority must, in accordance with clauses 33 and 34 of Schedule 7, appoint a chief executive.

    (2) A chief executive appointed under subsection (1) is responsible to his or her local authority for—

    (a) implementing the decisions of the local authority; and

    (b) providing advice to members of the local authority and to its community boards, if any; and

    (c) ensuring that all responsibilities, duties, and powers delegated to him or her or to any person employed by the local authority, or imposed or conferred by an Act, regulation, or bylaw, are properly performed or exercised; and

    (d) ensuring the effective and efficient management of the activities of the local authority; and

    (e) maintaining systems to enable effective planning and accurate reporting of the financial and service performance of the local authority; and

    (f) providing leadership for the staff of the local authority; and

    2) Developments on lawful compliance with the Public Records Act 2005.

    3) Progress on making information about Auckland Council and Auckland Council Controlled Organisation spending available on Auckland Council Rates Assessment Notices.

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

  19. savenz 19

    Hackers trace ISIS Twitter accounts back to internet addresses owned by Department of Work and Pensions UK


  20. Penny Bright 20

    Here you go folks!

    Here’s your chance to have YOUR say on whom you support for 2016 Auckland Mayor:



    Penny Bright

  21. North 21

    Herald Online: The Gauche and The Crass – real estate agent selling big tea towels juxtaposed with media feast over Jonah’s finances.

    WTF has become of “us” ?

  22. Tracey 22

    The abject failure of national to maintain the goal it has used to marginalise the vulnerable is getting scant critique from the political commentators.

    I guess when you dont think the vulnerable will vote for you making their lives worse can be juztified. You know if you are a self serving compassionless leech.

  23. Gavin 23

    Yesterday Steven Joyce was asked again about why R&D tax credits were removed by National almost immediately they got back into power in 2008. He repeated the old rubbish about businesses using it solely to minimise tax.


    This is despite the fact that the mere 300 R&D tax credits ever issued were audited by IRD, for any amounts approaching $100k or more, as far as I am aware. In contrast, just a few big companies have been granted up to $5mill each by the National govt, with taxpayer money freed up by such actions. The results have been indifferent. In many cases the companies are either: listed on the sharemarket, didn’t need the money for business as usual, are overseas owned, or are outright losers that cannot stand on their own feet.

    When I see land owners being audited for historic purchases of Harley Davidson bikes or glasshouses and the like, which can be coded as farm working assets or expenses, I’ll perhaps take a less dim view on Steven Joyce’s anti-SME attitude.

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