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Open mike 16/08/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, August 16th, 2019 - 60 comments
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60 comments on “Open mike 16/08/2019 ”

  1. wairua 2

    Jeremy Corbyn urges opposition leaders and Tory rebels to help oust PM.
    Labour leader claims Johnson has no mandate for no-deal Brexit and calls for caretaker government.

    “Jeremy Corbyn has called on rebel Tories and opposition leaders to stop a no-deal Brexit by ousting Boris Johnson as prime minister and allowing Labour to form a caretaker government until a general election.

    The Labour leader proposed that he should lead a temporary administration on a “strictly time-limited” basis with the aim of calling a general election.

    His letter threw down the gauntlet to the Lib Dems, the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens and rebel Tories, at a time when MPs opposed to no deal have been discussing a “national unity government” led by a centrist figure.

    Corbyn’s proposal makes it clear that the Labour frontbench consider he is the only politician who could lead a caretaker government, rather than a backbench candidate such as Tory veteran Ken Clarke or Labour’s Yvette Cooper.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/14/jeremy-corbyn-urges-opposition-leaders-and-tory-rebels-to-help-oust-pm

    • greywarshark 2.1

      Wow Jeremy is coming out of his shell, or like a conger eel charging out of the reef. Very wise of him to act while there still is a reef in good old UK home of democracy, or is it? Can't remember, I think something happened a long time ago that was supposed to be good.

      Thanks for that Wairua – we will all be watching this with great interest. We need to keep our eye on Trump and what is going on behind the scenery there – it all seems so theatrical don't you think? Hong Kong protesters pushing the envelope – does China have a mail system to receive it? Likely to have only one result – who is orchestrating this – the young people with no understanding of history, or some entity that is manipulating those young people?

      Anything good happening in the UK is a bonus. Meanwhile what is going on in the other BRIC countries apart from China? (Brazil, Russia, India).

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

    • Dukeofurl 2.2

      Caretaker government ?

      Doesnt happen under UK conventions.

      Again Guardian reporting as news complete fantasy without correcting the politicians claims.

      Its no different from say Daily Mail in its hyper partisan coverage of British politics. Its one thing to to have opinion or editorial taking a position.

    • Sanctuary 2.3

      The reaction to this offer from Corbyn of the Yellow Tories (AKA the Liberal Democrats), the "centrist" PLP MPs who group around Tom Watson and the various self-serving careerist Blairite turkeys still hanging around as independents and whatever the hell the TIGgers call themselves now has exposed Remain as now completely captured by neoliberal authoritarian technocrats and Israel's stooges – a motley crew of chancers and grifters that has the nerve to present itself as "sensible people and centrists".

      If Corbyn has done one thing with this it has been to expose the Lib-dems as an austerity enabling, Tory supporting lying leopard that has not changed it's spots. As i have said all along, the Oxbridge educated liberal urban elite who are the key enablers (and winners from) of neoliberalism would rather have Brexit – and austerity and betray the working class – than Corbyn.

      Corbyn hasn't a hope of stopping Brexit with this proposal – I doubt he ever expected to be able to – but Jo Sinson walked right into the trap and therefore he just destroyed the Liberal Democrats as a the standard bearers of remain.

      The logic of FPP elections means that Corbyn and his allies must have calculated that with the Brexit party splitting the Tory vote and the Liberal Democrats completely discredited, enough Labour voters will return to Labour to allow them to coming sailing up the middle for a Corbynista landslide at any Brexit election…

      • greywarshark 2.3.1

        Ooer Sanctuary that is an excoriating analysis. I don't know what to hope for after reading that. The maze is impenetrable to this rat. My birth father, who ended up a pilot of a Lancaster bomber in WW2 that went down in flames, ended up not thinking very highly of the Brits after he had spent a year or so there. I think he was a fairly good judge of things from what I have heard of him, and the few aerograms I was given.

        It is disappointing to think that they have screwed themselves down so strongly, and have lost the screwdriver. It was interesting to view the doco 'Meeting Gorbachev' in the NZIFF and see him speaking wonderingly of Margaret Thatcher's undiminished surety that nuclear arms were a Good Thing ensuring peace. Exactly the opposite of his beliefs that he was carrying from one leader to another in an effort to contain and reduce the tides of unhelpful responses rife in that time of uncertainty and anxiety.

        Perhaps the Brits still feel the ghost of the God-like empah oblivion, thinking that saying something firmly and strongly makes it true and real and right. That is how Trump behaves though. Is there something in the waters; we are feeling it in our waters for sure?

      • phillip ure 2.3.2

        excellent commentary/analysis..

  2. marty mars 3

    This is good imo. It enhances all parties mana and specifically the land protector mana, reduces tension, creates space for solutions and really puts all parties in a good light. Nice one.

    All the police cars and Fletcher Building contractor vehicles have left the front line at Ihumātao, leaving fewer than 10 officers.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396814/police-dramatically-reduce-presence-at-ihumatao

  3. marty mars 4

    life.

    cool article

    A new organ involved in the sensation of pain has been discovered by scientists, raising hopes that it could lead to the development of new painkilling drugs.

    Researchers say they have discovered that the special cells that surround the pain-sensing nerve cells that extend into the outer layer of skin appear to be involved in sensing pain – a discovery that points to a new organ behind the feeling of “ouch!”.

    hmm interesting

    The team’s biggest finding was that these Schwann cells can sense pain.

    nice

    The discovery was made using optogenetics, which involved the researchers genetically modifying mice so Schwann cells in the skin of their feet produced a protein that could absorb light.

    ooookay – some other reactions being pinged

    When light was shone on these cells, the mice lifted their feet. They also showed behaviour including licking, shaking and guarding of their paws – signs that stimulating these Schwann cells caused pain.

    As the pulses of light increased in duration, the number of nearby nerve cells firing increased, supporting the idea that these Schwann cells send a signal to the brain through the nerve cells.

    feeling a bit sick now

    Prof Peter McNaughton, an expert in sensory systems from King’s College London, said the study was interesting and radical. “If borne out by subsequent studies, this paper will be a paradigm shift showing that pain-sensitive nerve cell terminals are not in fact always directly driven by a painful stimulus but instead can be driven by associated [Schwann] cells,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/aug/15/scientists-discover-new-pain-sensing-organ

    yep

    just mice who cares>will help people with pain>we use mice for a reason cos they feel it>I kill mice>I don't torture mice>bloody humans>bloody mice>bloody pain>…

    life…

    • weka 4.1

      It's one of the things I loathe about reading medical research. So much unnecessary suffering.

      • greywarshark 4.1.1

        It is wonderful to find how far scientists will go when they believe they have something that will be good for humans and actually try it on themselves. It isn't always animals used to do the testing. And sometimes their short and unknowing lives are pivotal to being able to find an answer to something very big and hard to learn about if used on humans. We do hurt each other too, so we don't just pick on animals.

  4. greywarshark 5

    Edit:
    This is a comment from Wild Katipo from Fertile Land is Priceless:

    WILD KATIPO 7.2.2.1.1
    15 August 2019 at 12:04 pm

    And large helpings of steamed vegetables for all those attending free of charge. What does a few bottles of Olive oil and peanut butter cost ,- all cooked on a few barbeque’s?

    Think of it… the sharing of gardening ideas, in a festival atmosphere,.. where all generations can participate…from the things one can do with herbs to vegetable recipes to tree planting and ecology… the list is endless.

    Bands could play ! Lolly scrambles for the kids ! Select wine tasting !

    It would be a smash hit !

    And it has sparked me to think this:

    That's what we should have at booth sites on election days eh? Not offer to pay people for voting which as many commenters on RadioNZ pointed out wouldn't promote thought and real interest in civics and policies.

    But making interest in being part of the support group for community politics into something to enjoy. Going to vote and be welcomed by buskers throughout the last voting day, ie Saturday, kids from schools who learn the arts showing their activities, singing songs, playing ukes, elders with demonstrations of activities – tai chi, akido, etc. A sausage sizzle, people making pikelets, showing how to make fresh fruit drinks with gadgets, etc. Businesses showing up with useful services and The community showing how it wants to include everyone to participate, join the real party, The Garden Party (being a joke name for people who get together to show their love of NZ)! That is a pretty attractive idea don't you think?

    You wouldn't be able to keep people away from the voting booth. And I suggest that there should be a group of teenagers chosen from various schools to be monitors, keeping a clear space around the door, and watching that everything went smoothly, ensuring a good future for them from guarding the means of their citizen power. It is time to revitalise our concern for NZ and the young and to adopt new approaches to our rather weary and worn democratic system.

    • greywarshark 5.1

      Thinking further, it could be such a great day that people would forget to vote or forget what its actual purpose was. So at the entry gates people would be channelled into the voting booth BEFORE they could take part in the fun that had been organised for VOTING. Some people think that the country is run by fairies and goblins and people living in The Cloud, and forget that it is just us getting together and being committed to a common object. Taking everything for granted has been a fault that has developed.

      There could be a fun scarf that is knitted to wrap around the voting booth, everyone invited to put a stitch – as an example of what we have in our democracy, a dropped stitch here and there and some imperfections would only underscore the example of our reality, not perfect but something we can see and participate in and repair if need be. And at the end it can be measured, announced in the media along with reports about highlights of the day, and given to a group that knits blankets for those who need them.

      And then the counting, the booths finished, the apparent direction of the voting, the comments about the candidates, the general discussion about the country's state, will all be of more interest and better understood than ever before. People will want to wait up for the results, it will be like the New Year's celebrations.

    • SHG 5.2

      In Australia election advertising is legal on election day and legal in the grounds of polling locations up to a no-fly-zone border a few metres from the buildings. Getting from the street to the polling booth often means running a gauntlet of party volunteers in colourful t-shirts handing out pamphlets.

      Now this sounds awful but I think it actually does something positive for the Australian voting experience. The voting booth locations are always active places with helpful people who have an obligation to be friendly – no party wants to see their volunteers in their shirts on the news because they were abusing people.

      Many of the Australian polling-booth sites I've visited on election day have resembled greywarshark's description – sausage sizzles ("#democracysausage") and other food, kids playing games, music playing.

  5. weka 6

    testing to see if the old smilies still work

    :mrgreen:

    😎

    😈

    🙄

    😮

  6. cleangreen 7

    smileyNew German study. Scientists find microplastics in Arctic snow, suggesting significant air pollution even in remote locations New German study. Scientists find microplastics in Arctic snow, suggesting significant air pollution even in remote locations

    CEAC calls for action for rail – Tyre dust found here in new study. – we note trains don't use tyres. – only trucks do. – stop trucks – use rail.

    QUOTE; “They are usually formed by the breakdown of larger pieces of plastic – for example, from shopping bags to the wear and tear on tires. Microplastics might contain varnish, rubber, or chemicals used in synthetic fabrics and cause significant air pollution.

    Published on : 10:28 PST, Aug 14, 2019

    “Plastic pollution is a problem of growing environmental concern, and annual waste production is projected to rise to 3.4 billion metric tons (MT) in the next 30 years.” https://meaww.com/scientists-discover-plastic-waste-arctic-snow-air-pollution-remote-locations-study

    • Pat 7.1

      "It seems easy, doesn’t it? The first of these options involves business as usual. It means that the company remains at the mercy of gyrating energy prices and of low-cost producers flooding the market with cheap steel. The second of the options would allow British Steel to be more forward-looking when there is pressure on the steel industry to do its bit in the fight against climate change.

      In all the circumstances, the decision might look like a no-brainer. After all, the government is committed to a long-term industrial strategy and, by 2050, a zero-carbon economy. Yet it is gearing up to make Oyak the preferred bidder.

      That decision, of course, has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the Liberty House plan involves 400 more job losses than the Oyak proposal, that Scunthorpe is a marginal with a Labour majority of less than 3,500 and that ministers are preparing for a snap general election within the next few months. Perish the thought."

      https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/15/spend-spend-spend-spirit-of-viv-nicholson-lives-on-britain-brexit

      • Dukeofurl 7.1.1

        Zero NETT carbon.

        Governments have committed since Kyoto to reduce NETT emissions, NZ does this ,when its gross emissions are rising, by buying carbon credits off others. The taxpayer pays something like $1 bill per year to do so, some industries that dont get the taxpayer to pick up their rising emissions maybe pay another $250 mill ?

        Places like Ukraine which 'de industrialised/de populated' have made a lot of money being a sink for others.

        Zero carbon doesnt mean no carbon , far from it.

        • cleangreen 7.1.1.1

          Agree with you sadly Dukeofurl, they buy phoney carbon credits too from saby countries like ukraine.and follish they are.

          This begun with John key though but you would think that labour would not do this now but my suspicion is that you are right they probaby are still buying them today from Ukraine now.

        • Pat 7.1.1.2

          There was no suggestion of otherwise….the point of the post (which appears to have been overlooked) is that even with the legislation (the UK has had it longer than anyone else) the logical decisions will be overridden for political expediency…NZ will be no different

    • greywarshark 7.2

      I have been interested for a while in Graeme Hart's packaging arm and finding out some more about what he does, and thinks about what is happening in this field. He is supposed to be an astute businessman and I would think would be moving out of some areas. His wealth is calculated at $10 billion IIRC.

      It is interesting when searching on google to find there is so little about him. And fascinating to find that there was a journalist Graeme Hart, now deceased, who wrote about him in The Listener in 2010. This is a good article and rare I imagine. There is this about packaging:

      If market rumours are correct, Rank Group is seeking to acquire US packaging company Pactiv Corporation in a bid to challenge Tetra Laval's food-packaging dominance. Among Tetra Laval's varied operations, the Tetra Pak business is the world leader in liquid food-processing and packaging.

      What is not in doubt is that Hart is laying the groundwork for something big after shelling out US$2.7 billion for aluminium producer Alcoa's packaging and consumer group in 2008. He spun off parts of the business – mostly aluminium foil and plastic closures – restructured it with plant shutdowns and hefty job losses, and renamed it Reynolds Packaging Group. It is now the flagship for Rank's varied and far-flung packaging interests.

      From late 2009 Hart started bundling the packaging groups Rank already owned into the Reynolds stable: Swiss drinks carton manufacturer SIB and ­Indianapolis-based plastic bottle cap manufacturer Closure Systems Inter­national. Courtesy of US$1.75 million of debt Hart is raising on Reynolds Group Holdings, he hopes to add further Rank assets to the mix: Memphis-based drinks packager Evergreen Packaging and even the Whakatane Paper Mill (the latter is part of Rank-controlled Carter Holt Harvey).

      The end-game in this has to be a food-packaging group capable of challenging Tetra Pak. Hart wouldn't be interested if the challenge were anything less. That he can even consider this when the global economy is still weak is testimony to more than blatant deal-making. It is about Hart himself – a rare breed of New Zealander who has made it in business overseas and survived as a member of New Zealand's oft-maligned and oft-troubled nouveau riche.

      The Economist predicts a giant Reynolds would give Hart the critical mass to change the nature of the food-packaging industry.

      It is hard being in business!

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12204563
      https://www.noted.co.nz/archive/archive-listener-nz-2010/lord-of-the-deals
      Graeme Hart’s Reynolds Group reports US$5 million loss
      Reynolds Group, the global packaging giant owned by New Zealand’s richest person, Graeme Hart, went into the red last year, because of a greater level of impaired assets and higher raw material costs.

      In a filing to the US Securities and Exchange Commission, Reynolds reported US$5 million ($7.3m) loss in 2018, against a US$439 million profit in the previous year.

      Some old info – last at 2016
      https://www.interest.co.nz/category/tag/rank-group

      • greywarshark 7.2.1

        I was wrong in the above about journalist name which should have been Graeme Hunt writing about Graeme Hart.

  7. joe90 8

    An impressive young woman.

    (and she has the right flinging their own poo, too)

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-49331885/greta-thunberg-s-zero-carbon-journey-i-might-feel-a-bit-seasick

  8. greywarshark 9

    Worrying about machines taking over – sometime in the next century, decade, year, now …..

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/08/15/the-wellington-orac-dangers-of-replacing-bureaucrat-bigotry-with-ai-bigotry-police-wanting-facial-recognition-cctv-empire/

    Martin Bradbury's take on it.

  9. Hey, just as a matter of interest, sometime in the recent past, was Eco Maori advised/encouraged to post his contributions on the Open Mike of yesterday or the day before? Or is he really just two short puffs on the end of a spliff – somehow I don’t believe that

    Yesterday's Open Mike is today's Fish and Chip rapper of course – but really no worse than those than come in here with the intention to divert, or even those running an official ideological agenda (going forward).

    No biggie – just curious from someone anxious for some learnings

    • Fireblade 10.1

      From memory, Eco Maori was asked not to post at the start of everyday, when he was asking for financial contributions. That was a long time ago now. He then chose to post on old Open Mikes.

      I believe Eco Maori should be invited back to the current Open Mike. I find most of his contributions quite interesting. Obviously what I think isn't important and it's not my decision to make.

      • OnceWasTim 10.1.1

        Ditto @ Fireblade re last paragraph. I hadn't realised he'd been asking for financial contributions. Just curious. (Maybe it'll eventually kill this kat)

        • greywarshark 10.1.1.1

          Eco Maori interests and I notice the style of writing changes, and I have a feeling that more than one person pens the comments, or that he sometimes plays with a stream of Maori consciousness approach where he talks a lot about sandflys who are out to get him (cops and bailiffs?).

          But even if his pieces go to yesterday's OM we are still allowed to read them! When his name occurs in the Comments listings, just follow them up and see what pearls he is throwing down. He supports Maori musicians so we can keep up with the young creatives.

          I think he might be writing for another readership actually, some of the ones who follow the blog and don't write in

    • veutoviper 10.2

      I also actually quite enjoy some of Eco's comments, but they did become a problem for the reasons discussed above.

      As far as I am aware, the fact that they appear in Open Mike's of a day or two old rather than on the day they are actually submitted has nothing to do with Eco's choice – but rather what I call "lprent's Magical Time Machine"! lprent waves his wand and just by magic Eco's comments disappear and reappear on older Open Mike posts.

      I take it you have not noticed that lprent has been updating his Time Machine and has it doing other such tricks with other commenters' posts from time to time over the last month or so? LOLOL

      Seriously though I find the current solution completely practical and presumably acceptable to Eco, otherwise he would stop posting at all. It allows Eco’s comments to still appear but without the disruption to other comments/posts etc. I and others have replied to Eco’s posts from time to time but I don’t recall any of us having responses to our replies …

      In fact there are a lot more posts that I would love to see being treated in a similar manner!

      • OnceWasTim 10.2.1

        Yep Mr/Mrs/Ms Veut. I did notice Lprent's wizardry. A true gem when it comes to eloquent and expedient solutions.

        I imagine it all happened when I was away being mischievous and on a venture to find my inner peace – even though I did comment from time to time from the other side. Which reminds me, I'd also noticed Mr Ure is back on his magic scooter, and one or two others that seem to be commenting from their new-found set of mystical realities.

        Unfortunately, it seems no amount of time warp travel affects the likes of a Mapp.

        All part of life's rich tapestry though eh?

        • Incognito 10.2.1.1

          All part of life’s rich tapestry though eh?

          QFT

          • veutoviper 10.2.1.1.1

            Oh, so clever.

            So which definition of QFT are you intending, Incognito? There are several.

            • Incognito 10.2.1.1.1.1

              I only know one that fits here: Quoted For Truth.

              The other one I know (of) doesn’t make any sense here 😉

              Please enlighten me/us.

        • lprent 10.2.1.2

          Another mod used my OpenMike shunt to shift some off-topic junk out of a post. It shunted up to the top of an OpenMike from a later date – because it was earlier. That was because the OM shunt sends it to the current OM.

          I just changed the dates so that it no-longer looked like it was the eco post.

  10. greywarshark 11

    Portsmouth Sinfonia pay the Danube Waltz (or murder it if you wish). Tis is how our democracy is going at the moment. If you want it to be better than the PS sound, then keep working at it. The PS is people who have not had much time learning their instruments though they are good at their own specialty. They need time to learn and at present are giving it a 'good go', I just love it though can't bear to listen too often. The Lord loves a tryer. So help us please oh Lord.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmqBzFcHQis

    You will like them at the Albert Hall having a go at the Hallelujah Chorus! What a doughty bunch. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkPGByh_F50

    The main thing is to keep going and not start laughing.

    Another version entirely. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhjWdr-LAA

    • Pingau 11.1

      I first heard them playing the William Tell overture … I laughed so hard I cried. I think it is a requirement that you have never played whatever instrument you are playing before but that you give it your best shot. They have a sprinkling of people who can play to help the overall music along.

      Thanks for that Gray!

      • greywarshark 11.1.1

        Glad you like it Pingau. I think that the full requirement is that they are musicians but have never played the instrument du jour before. Some of them have a very short practice! And the working guideline is that you all start together and finish together. In between it gets individual.

        It has always tickled me especially the Albert Hall Hallelujah where there were a basic group of singers and musicians and then another hundred or so turned up to be in the shindig. It's very enjoyable and for some it is no more discordant than jazz can be.

        It is more fun than when you are an earnest music student and get to perform at the end of year show and tell, and forget your piece but stumble through, and are outclassed by a six year old who plays Fur Elise like a professional! Happened to one of my children. He still plays though – he's got true grit.

        • OnceWasTim 11.1.1.1

          Is that second one (Hallelujah) the theme son to Brexit?

        • Stuart Munro. 11.1.1.2

          You've hit on something real there – the commodification of recorded music tends to obscure the fun of producing it, of personally improving, and of being part of a creative community.

          Both Karaoke and the punk movement were directed at returning music to small groups and communities, and both enjoyed considerable success. Great link btw.

    • OnceWasTim 11.2

      That sounds bloody familiar @Grey – I've been racking my brain. Finally it came to me. It's the theme song to a few government departments/munstries – especially that one you hear when you enter the old Defence Headquarters in Ballance St. You get the best Theatre Mode there too on an expensive curved screen

      The State Services Commish was so taken by it that he's instructed it to be used at Justice, and I understand Kelvin Davis is asking the Commish whether or not it might be appropriate at Pleece National HQ.

      MSD is so progressive they're considering some sort of 'mashup' using it, but it'll have to go to Cabinet for a final decision

  11. adam 12

    More examples of a media out of wack long video 20 min

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyKHBPvlCFw&ab_channel=TheGrayzone

  12. cleangreen 13

    Greta Thunberg is an inspiring soul and hope for our future lies in her spiritual beliefs that you can’t ‘short change’ “mother nature” and get away with it.

    I believe she will be a world leader one day, as she shows truth to power.

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