Open mike 16/09/2020

70 comments on “Open mike 16/09/2020 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Stuart Munro 1

   16 September 2020 at 6:39 am

   A job for Billy TK.
   • greywarshark 1.1

     16 September 2020 at 11:13 am

     Excellent scheme. The punishment fitting the crime – not in a nutshell but an oblong space.l
     • Stuart Munro 1.1.1

       16 September 2020 at 4:42 pm

       
       
       
2. Dennis Frank 2

   16 September 2020 at 7:06 am

   If a political party is unregistered, and passes the threshold at the election, can it get list candidates into parliament as a result? Probably not!

   More than $255,000 in donations have been made to a political party that never registered, a loophole in electoral laws that a political expert says is “unprecedented”.

   The New Zealand Public Party has come under fire by former members and staffers who allege up to $100,000 in koha collected at events, and kept in a tin under leader Billy Te Kahika’s bed, is unaccounted for.

   Complaints were laid to the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) and the Electoral Commission about missing donations, however no investigations are resulting from the complaints. The Electoral Commission said because NZPP never registered as a party it has no obligation to report donations.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300106545/255000-in-political-donations-to-nzpp-a-party-that-never-registered

   They deserve an award for value-added entertainment though. The Nat/Lab underwhelming strategy is clearly designed to turn voters off. NZF is clearly trying to scare voters off. Greens seem unsure which voters to piss off.

   Of the peripherals, Vernon Tava has been a no-show, the Opportunists flicker on/off dimly, and the Neocons are off the wall. Only the nutters seem right on – fervently demonstrating god's will to the apathetic. Oh, but we can celebrate the Maori Party for advocating we ditch the dumb old colonial name and become Aotearoa! 👍
   • mauī 2.1

     16 September 2020 at 9:01 am

     From the list of Koha in your first link, that is great that people from all over the country have given donations rounded to the nearest hundred dollars, or probably purely in hundred dollar bills. Restores ones faith in humanity, that the public won't encumber a political movement with superfluous accounting… The wonderful Billy TK.
   • Alice Tectonite 2.2

     16 September 2020 at 9:38 am

     If a political party is unregistered, and passes the threshold at the election, can it get list candidates into parliament as a result? Probably not!

     Electoral Commission's Guide to Party Registration (link) says unregistered parties can only stand electorate candidates. Party vote is only for registered parties.
     • Dennis Frank 2.2.1

       16 September 2020 at 9:50 am

       Thanks Alice, thought so. I guess it means the decision of JLR to stop contesting Botany is due to him presuming his party registration can get him in even though his partner's party must win a seat to get in. If the combo reaches 5% I mean. If the unlikely happens, could become a legal fight (all the way to the Supreme Court)…
       • Alice Tectonite 2.2.1.1

         16 September 2020 at 10:55 am

         Maybe stand electorate candidates under JLR's Advance NZ banner as that is a registered party.
         • Dennis Frank 2.2.1.1.1

           16 September 2020 at 11:02 am

           Except that seems to contradict what you wrote in 2.2, so I was thinking he's somehow relying on how the combined party will work. Then again maybe neither leader actually thought it thro. Probably won't matter but nutters abound so if they vote we may get an interesting situation. A lawyer-fest.
           • Alice Tectonite 2.2.1.1.1.1

             16 September 2020 at 11:29 am

             In 2.2 I was thinking of NZPP standing under its own name.

             NZPP is a component party of Advance NZ (link), so it might be okay if everything is done through the combined entity. (Or might be one for the lawyers.)
             • Dennis Frank …

               16 September 2020 at 11:48 am

               Oh yeah. I see there are four component parties listed. Went to the Advance website & the link there to Billy's party. Interesting bio:

               I approached the UN in 2016 to help fund a NZ based indigenous economic and cultural festival to help end indigenous poverty. We didn’t receive funding because we did not want to become members of the UN as an NGO to receive it. But since I have taken on fronting this amazing movement I have been painted as:

               • A UN secret agent working as controlled opposition.
               • A secret Chinese Communist Party agent trying to sell Maori land and that I am committing treason.
               • I am a Freemason and Freemasonry supporter, despite lecturing against Freemasons.
               • I am an Abortion Industry executive – despite being against it.
               • I work for the Maori King and I am forming a global reserve bank with him – reason or how unspecified.
               • I am a racial separatist despite preaching the opposite that we are all one family.
               • And that I am a conspiracy theorist about the UN & Communism in New Zealand – despite providing factual evidence proving this and asking that people apply critical thinking.

               It's tough at the top. Not enough to surf the wave of any hot conspiracy theory, you get competing theorists demonising you – bit like sharks in the water around the surfer…
   • woodart 2.3

     16 September 2020 at 5:14 pm

     maybe the existential question should be, is a unregistered cult with a leader who keeps the $$$$$ under his bed a political party? but, I agree, they do add colour, conspiracy nutters are fun to play with , gentley leading-pushing them further up their own orifice with each wild theory.(mine, not theirs)
3. KJT 3

   16 September 2020 at 7:21 am

   https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB194lJm?m=en-nz&ocid=News

   “”The political, economic and environmental trends we’ve slavishly followed for decades have been exposed as not only redundant but actually dangerous. Maybe we should adopt not just a language but a way of thinking that’s indigenous to this country. Let’s start a conversation about what Tino Rangatiratanga might mean now instead of patronising attempts to use Māori language to continue denying it.””
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     16 September 2020 at 1:19 pm

     All this co-opting of Māori language and culture by the state is little more than cynical marketing and doesn’t address more pressing and structural issues that Māori, and the country at large, actually face.

     The state isn't co-opting Māori culture. If they were, things might actually be better.

     A large part of the problem is that we've seemingly decided to remain a multi-cultural society rather than coming together as a single society that has aspects (preferably the best aspects while throwing out the worst) of multiple cultures.

     Its this determination to remain separate within our country that really pisses me off. We'd all be better off if we decided to have a single culture informed from all the cultures that have come here.
     • McFlock 3.1.1

       16 September 2020 at 1:49 pm

       Well, that wasn't the deal made in 1840.

       So we're left with a salad, not a puree. I prefer salads, anyway.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1

         16 September 2020 at 3:16 pm

         I was responding to this:

         Let’s start a conversation about what Tino Rangatiratanga might mean now instead of patronising attempts to use Māori language to continue denying it.

         I agree that we do need to have such a conversation but the result of that conversation should be that we, as a nation, are one people with one culture. What's really up for discussion is the nature of that culture and if its still dividing us or brining us together.
         • McFlock 3.1.1.1.1

           16 September 2020 at 3:50 pm

           Predetermining the outcome of a conversation makes the conversation pointless.

           But also, we are a multicultural society. Arguing we should be "one culture" is either suggesting a sort of cultural homgeneity that the zealandia jerks seem to be after, or it's a meaningless proposition that our single culture is multicultural.

           But what is the problem with talking about what Tino Rangatiratanga might mean? There are several examples around the world of different cultures working together within one nation, but with diverse governance and service systems. Canada comes to mind, but there are others.
           • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1.1

             16 September 2020 at 8:31 pm

             Predetermining the outcome of a conversation makes the conversation pointless.

             No it doesn't as it would be about how we went about it, what parts of which cultures we keep which get tossed aside.

             But also, we are a multicultural society.

             Not really unless you want to proclaim identity politics as valid:

             Identity politics makes people feel better about themselves at the expense of productive discourse. A person’s lived experience should never be invalidated. But no identity makes the beliefs that someone derives from their lived experience automatically more correct.

             My bold.

             The problem with a multi-cultural society is that it will always be tearing itself apart as it puts people, who should be friendly neighbours, against each other.

             But what is the problem with talking about what Tino Rangatiratanga might mean?

             Who's?

             As I said, identity politics tears a society apart.

             There are several examples around the world of different cultures working together within one nation, but with diverse governance and service systems.

             Not really.

             In all countries there's one set of rules at the top that lower bodies (states/cities) have to conform to even if they do make local laws which means that there's an over-riding culture.
             • McFlock …

               16 September 2020 at 8:58 pm

               A couple of points there.

               Pretending that culture is determined by sitting down and discussing it, rather than a conglomerate of individuals and lived experience, is bullshit. So that discussion is lala-land for a start.

               Secondly, "identity politics" is a phrase used by fuckwits to disparage the concept of treating individuals with respect even if they are different. Lived experience being ""automatically more correct" than what? And why is "correct" being used to score points in that essay? The problem wasn't the author's "identity politics", the problem was the author trying to score points against their parents rather than actually discuss the matter.

               But that article shares what I believe to be your basic miscomprehension: diversity in culture doesn't need to lead to conflict. The conflict occurs when one culture tries to dominate the other. Discarding "aspects" of any culture, even if rationally determined by committee, will piss people off. Look at the claims of "social engineering" over smacking and lightbulbs.

               We can minimise that conflict by recognising the cultures within our society. Canada really is an interesting example with its approach to First Nations, French, and British heritage and culture. Not perfect by any means, but definitely something to look at.

               Trying to mash us all into a homogeneous culture and say we are "one culture" is a fast way to start exploitation, dominance, and war. We've done that before.

               edit: and laws and jurisdiction really is something you should read up on in Canada. Not that laws are culture, anyway.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 16 September 2020 at 9:21 pm

                 Pretending that culture is determined by sitting down and discussing it, rather than a conglomerate of individuals and lived experience, is bullshit.

                 Culture is set by the rules of a society be they written or unwritten. Discussing what Tino Rangatiratanga might mean is discussing what rules we want to keep and what rules to toss aside.

                 Its what we call government.

                 Secondly, "identity politics" is a phrase used by fuckwits to disparage the concept of treating individuals with respect even if they are different.

                 No, it really isn't. In fact, I first heard the concept of identity politics from those most in favour of it.

                 But that article shares what I believe to be your basic miscomprehension: diversity in culture doesn't need to lead to conflict.

                 Yes it does. Treating people differently because they're black/white/gay/straight inevitably leads to conflict as people will have the belief that they're being short-changed.

                 Discarding "aspects" of any culture, even if rationally determined by committee, will piss people off. Look at the claims of "social engineering" over smacking and lightbulbs.

                 Yes, governance does get that sort of response because they are engaging in social engineering. They're, quite literally, setting the rules that will determine the culture of a society. So you can probably understand why National were upset as the 5th Labour government tried to stop the ongoing excessive and uneconomical use of power and abuse of children.

                 We can minimise that conflict by recognising the cultures within our society

                 No, that will maximise the conflict.

                 Trying to mash us all into a homogeneous culture and say we are "one culture" is a fast way to start exploitation, dominance, and war.

                 Nope.

                 When two culture meet the cross-pollinate and create a new culture. What multi-culturalism does is to try and keep all the cultures as they were at some idealistic point in time and thus trying to prevent the changes that need to happen as a new culture emerges.
                 • McFlock …

                   16 September 2020 at 9:52 pm

                   Well, I disagree with pretty much every point and characterisation and conflation you have made there.

                   But society won't fall apart if we don't hash out exactly which bits we should keep or discard.

                   So, a bit like calling a person by their chosen pronoun, I will leave it alone and merely wish you a good night. The Cultural Appropriations Committee can pick it up in the morning.
                 • PaddyOT …

                   17 September 2020 at 8:02 pm

                   " Its this determination to remain separate within our country that really pisses me off. We'd all be better off if we decided to have a single culture informed from all the cultures that have come here."

                   Then, one day a man named Sylvester McMonkey McBean came. Everyone from every persuasion that nature and nuture created sat down at a meeting with that "fix it up chappie" as mediator.

                   The agenda was to decide , " what parts of which cultures we keep (and) which get tossed aside."

                   The goal of the task was to make, "one set of rules at the top that lower bodies (states/cities) have to conform to even if they do make local laws which means that there's an over-riding culture."

                   A problem to ameliorate was that people in those lower bodies with their own unique identities were , according to some, problematic because they were through their identity, different from the ideal.

                   The problem was then reconfigured, not as 'the problem being the problem' but but dammit…those different people were the problem.

                   A little background to the current problem. In the 1830s, the British government decided it was time to curb the lawlessness of the land and officially make it a colony.
                   Sylvester McMonkey McBean the first, arrived on NZ shores and using an ever changing formula for the process, the natives were pushed through the suppresion machine to meld together for all to be one people. The melting pot machine had three main phases to pass through, Christianise against savage practices and beliefs, Colonise using one set of rules and expected behaviour because they are superior, then finally, Capitalise on the assets pilfered through that glorious new identity.

                   Over 180 years when some saw the cracks appear and the have nots started to uprise, it was easy to fix.. . add new rules again ( and imprison the rule breakers.)
                   The process is much like the original evolution of rules where the then recent, superior immigrants created more rules in the colonists' Native Land Court to affect cancelling the collective identity found in collective ownership of the commons and onto removing singular identity ( and assets) from being connected to the land.

                   The rationale purported for this more recent proposal here, of transformation to one culture, is that,
                   " Treating people differently because they're black/white/gay/straight inevitably leads to conflict as people will have the belief that they're being short-changed."

                   Once more in history, a policy sell of a One Nation melting pot that inflicted inequality, is now postured again as the cure to quell civil unrest.

                   Underlying this is the posed certainity that individual identity is destructive to society.

                   " We can minimise that conflict by recognising the cultures within our society," says one O' the flock with an idea.

                   A direct, " No, that will maximise the conflict."

                   Instead we need to cross-pollinate.

                   " When two culture meet the cross-pollinate and create a new culture. What multi-culturalism does is to try and keep all the cultures as they were at some idealistic point in time and thus trying to prevent the changes that need to happen as a new culture emerges."

                   Furthermore, after overlooking mass misery created through exploiting an earlier 'set of rules' in order to have a state run 'one-culture' , the whole of the Treaty is dumped. Its whole context, the history, its purpose and intent is now diminished through hand picking a two word convenient phrase to suit. The selection of just those two words "tino rangitira" and putting a spin on it is the "co-opting" of the convenient parts to impose a western world view. Applied then to the appropriation is a self-interpretation to shape the future in order to uphold an argument that a nation's people will coexist peacefully if multi-culturalism is cancelled out.

                   "Culture is set by the rules of a society be they written or unwritten. Discussing what Tino Rangatiratanga might mean is discussing what rules we want to keep and what rules to toss aside."

                   Which group has the right and should be the ones to interpret tikanga might be the first question, before all the lab rats are subjected to hegemony ?

                   A person's identity is the totality of all dimensions that make up 'self' . All the aspects that come into play that make each person's unique identity would need to be deconstructed and then it's just too bad, some need to be thrown out as they are not good.

                   Ancestory and family, parenting, gender, social practices, rites of passage, genetics, personality, peace or trauma, environment of events and resources in one's upbringing, belief systems, political leanings, cognitive abilities, looks, skin colour.. the perfect One identity will be created by the fix it up chappie.

                   This crazy cycle of rule changing would continue until everyone couldn't tell who was originally which type of Sneetch, we all at which point are the same, a pure-e.

                   To be pragmatic though, because 5 million can't fit in the meeting room, we would need to whittle down proportionately the attendees to a house of representatives. To show further fairness, the meeting would start with a co-opted practice of a prayer and then would precede by following co-opted archaic "Robert's Rules" for speaking.

                   Hopefully, none at the Make One Nation meeting has the rotten core of capitalism in their hearts.

                   The predominant majority of representatives would then decide the alogorithms for McBean's machine. A halt to any new immigrants would have to follow as they may taint the ideal identity or be too expensive to machinize into pure-e.

                   But for $10 more each says Mr. McBean, I can add dermabrasion in as an extra star to whitewash all. Then McBean will pack his bags up and leave loaded with cash.

                   The enlightenment to follow, what fun! There'd be no more diversity as there be no more " north and south going Zax ". For that matter, there'd be no more "green pants with nobody inside them" either, to invent our fears around.

                   Can you smell the vanilla coming off those algorithm decisions ?
                   
4. DS 4

   16 September 2020 at 8:41 am

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/300107808/university-students-may-reconsider-futures-after-labour-party-breaks-promise-of-additional-feesfree-years

   Fees Free was expensive, but restoring the postgraduate student allowance was not. If you can't fulfil postgrad allowances in the 2017-2020 term, at the very least make sure you fulfil it in 2020-2023 ("better late than never").

   As it is, this smacks of 1980s-1990s Bait and Switch. Hipkins can stay on at Health, but he's godawful at Education. Give the job to someone who doesn't betray students.
   • Jester 4.1

     16 September 2020 at 9:04 am

     I think Hipkins is far too busy with both Health and Education. I agree and think he should stay as health minster (he's a lot better than David Clark, although Clark set the bar very low). Jacinda seems a bit reluctant to trust some of the other ministers and IMO has overloaded both Hipkins and Megan Woods.
   • Incognito 4.2

     16 September 2020 at 9:52 am

     It was a Labour flagship policy in their election campaign in 2017 and NZF and the Greens pledged support. I don’t know about NZF being the convenient handbrake but the Green Party is in full support.

     https://www.greens.org.nz/tertiary_education_policy

     They never even tried to implement it and using Covid as an excuse is an insult to our trust. It shows the short-term thinking and focus on ‘shovel-ready’ stuff suits Labour as much as National.
     • Bearded Git 4.2.1

       16 September 2020 at 10:27 am

       So students should party vote Green then incog. This is a significant own goal by Labour.
       • Incognito 4.2.1.1

         16 September 2020 at 10:35 am

         The Green Party Policies have a lot to offer to young people.
         • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.1

           16 September 2020 at 1:21 pm

           They have a lot to offer most people and not just the young.
           • Incognito 4.2.1.1.1.1

             16 September 2020 at 1:56 pm

             I agree, but we were referring to students, who are mostly (!) young, and the number of younger voters is relatively low. That was the context.
       • McFlock 4.2.1.2

         16 September 2020 at 1:53 pm

         Gives the greens a couple of percent via their leftish platform rather than strict environmentalism.

         Labour can afford to throw its main ally a bone, and they can do it without knobbling an electorate candidate. Teamwork. They'd probably govern alone if the Greens didn't get in this time, but Labour know they're better off having the Greens.
         • DS 4.2.1.2.1

           16 September 2020 at 2:11 pm

           Labour can boost the Greens without getting a generation of students to view Labour as liars.

           Honestly, there is a reason it took so long to put the demons of Phil Goff and Lockwood Smith back in the bottle.
           • McFlock 4.2.1.2.1.1

             16 September 2020 at 2:32 pm

             Besides the overstatement by comparing a widened schedule in a pandaemic with Lockwood Smith's outright lie, if my suspicion that this was an intentional tactic is correct (that Labour are easing off on education with the benefit to the Greens being at least a partial consideration in favour of that move), then that is literally the goal: spend some of their political capital by alienating some supporters in the group most likely to lean Green rather than NZ1/nat.

             Piss of pensioners, they go NZ1. Piss of students, they go Green.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   16 September 2020 at 8:42 am

   Left/right collusion at the top level of politics remains effective in preventing progress by defending business as usual: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/15/every-global-target-to-stem-destruction-of-nature-by-2020-missed-un-report-aoe

   From tackling pollution to protecting coral reefs, the international community did not fully achieve any of the 20 Aichi biodiversity targets agreed in Japan in 2010 to slow the loss of the natural world. It is the second consecutive decade that governments have failed to meet targets.

   Mainstreamers will be reassured by this. Doing something different would be terribly traumatic. You can see why they switched to Coro instead.
6. francesca 6

   16 September 2020 at 9:06 am

   Those dumb ignorant Russians are in denial over novichok

   They've done no decontamination of the Tomsk airport, which has been in full operational mode throughout.The aeroplane carrying Navalny, and in which he was induced to vomit has not been destroyed, fellow passengers have been questioned but not tested for novichok, neither have the crew.

   There's a disgraceful photo of Navalny being put in the ambulance on the way to the Omsk hospital

   https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/21/world/europe/russia-navalny-poison-hospital.html

   What were they thinking!! No hazmat gear on , no precautions apart from the usual hospital gowns and masks

   They'll be dying like flies over there you mark my words, Navalny and his colleagues will be trumpeting it from the rooftops

   But I have to say, the Germans have done it on the cheap too. No tracheotomy for Navalny, unlike both the Skripals, and the Navalny dose was meant to be harder

   No quarantining for Navalny

   Navalny had his wife and family close the whole time, poor old Skripal was denied the visitation of friends or family

   And we know he had friends in Salisbury, his old MI6 handler Pablo Miller lived in the same town and they had monthly lunches

   The Skripals had to be expensively quarantined and safe housed and given new identities and shipped off to NZ.Or so an anonymous UK intelligence source told the Sunday Times of Britain , and they would surely not lie?

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12342962

   Navalny has just appeared on his instagram page looking very chipper indeed and stating that as soon as he gets out of hospital he's back to Russia .Goodness!

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/alexei-navalny-poisoned-russian-opposition-leader-photo-hospital

   I must commend the German doctors, he's looking the very picture of rude health and well on the way to recovery

   4weeks for Yulia and a couple of months for Sergei .Sergei's so burnt by the whole thing he's unable to contact his mother who he used to ring every week

   Shame on you Brit doctors!

   And you Russians , when will you learn to treat dissidents the good old democratic Western way ?

   'End torture and medical neglect of Julian Assange"

   • Stephen Frost
   • Lissa Johnson
   • Jill Stein
   • William Frost
   • on behalf of 117 signatories

   Published:February 17, 2020DOI:https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(2

   https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30383-4/fulltext

   You're so backward with this novichok that continues not to kill the target

   How hard is a heart attack or car accident?
   • Andre 6.1

     16 September 2020 at 9:08 am

     Da, comrade.
     • RedLogix 6.1.1

       16 September 2020 at 9:14 am

       It's almost like the Russian State Security services are very good at killing people any more.
       • Andre 6.1.1.1

         16 September 2020 at 9:22 am

         Or they feel like the message is adequately sent either way – live or die, no matter, just make sure there's a lot of publicised suffering and expense and a teeny-tiny fig-leaf of plausible deniability to provoke ever more argument.
         • RedLogix 6.1.1.1.1

           16 September 2020 at 9:27 am

           And at the same time bungle the use of a poison guaranteed to cause maximum embarrassment to their boss.

           Sighs … hard to find competent assassins these days.
           • Andre 6.1.1.1.1.1

             16 September 2020 at 9:29 am

             Poots doesn't show the slightest sign of embarrassment. Quite the opposite from all appearances.
           • francesca 6.1.1.1.1.2

             16 September 2020 at 10:03 am

             I know , and to get the timing so badly wrong!

             Nordstream 2 home and hosed and all of Europe plugged in,then finish off Navalny and all those pesky commies who do so much better in the polls than Navalny

             Methinks those bungling bastards are resting on the laurels of puppetising Trump and inducing him to demand the end of Nordstream 2….well before the Navalny fiasco

             https://www.rferl.org/a/pompeo-u-s-will-do-everything-to-stop-nord-stream-2/30757543.html

             Trump is such a Putin puppet hes also withdrawn the US from the INF arms control treaty

             https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-09/news/us-completes-inf-treaty-withdrawal
             And the Open Skies treaty
             Puppet Trump has given lethal weaponry to Ukraine , when even Obama stopped short
             • greywarshark …

               16 September 2020 at 11:25 am

               Francesca You need to put sarc at the bottom of the comments that you write in a cynical/satirical way. We don't know what is going on and when you appear to know and state something it is taken as supposedly believable or completely dismissed depending on the bent of the reader.
               • francesca …

                 16 September 2020 at 12:35 pm

                 Sorry grey

                 The daniki were burning and I forgot to put the sarc tag in
       • francesca 6.1.1.2

         16 September 2020 at 10:11 am

         Actually Red , it shows they're even more skilful

         It's way harder to almost kill someone , then allow them to return to full health ,than to kill them outright

         You've got to get the measurements just right, enough surplus to spread all over Salisbury for instance and cause the maximum fuss and diplomatic downsides, but not quite enough to kill.

         And it takes a lot of skill in the case of Navalny for instance to only contaminate the target and none of his colleaugues(who are just as noisome as Navalny)
         • aj 6.1.1.2.1

           16 September 2020 at 12:05 pm

           Thank you Francesca for unpicking the remarkable inconsistencies in these cases.
         • McFlock 6.1.1.2.2

           16 September 2020 at 3:15 pm

           Scenario:

           You're driving in a war-torn land. You turn a corner and see a roadblock several hundred metres away. Your windscreen shatters and a bullet goes through the drivers' headrest not an inch away from you.

           "Well gosh," thinks one person. "The shot can't have come from the roadblock, because at that range to miss me by inches is an amazing piece of marksmanship. Because the shot didn't come from there, it's safe for me to keep going in that direction. If they had wanted to kill me, with marksmanship like that I'd be dead already."

           "Well gosh" thinks another person. "I guess they don't want me approaching, and aren't too bothered about whether I live or die so long as nobody approaches them. I think I will go back the way I came."

           Some people just don't get the message.
           • francesca 6.1.1.2.2.1

             16 September 2020 at 6:47 pm

             Navalny certainly didnt, he's raring to get back to Russia
             • McFlock …

               16 September 2020 at 8:25 pm

               He got the message. He's brave, not stupid.
       • Stuart Munro 6.1.1.3

         16 September 2020 at 7:12 pm

         Might've got into the habit of using contractors like the Night Wolves.
7. Anne 7

   16 September 2020 at 10:09 am

   While on the subject of international affairs…

   I'm no defender of the Chinese government but talk about the pots calling the kettle black:

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122773268/new-zealand-politicians-diplomats-judges-and-fraudsters-found-on-massive-chinese-intelligence-database

   It's an abhorrent practice but the West has been doing the same sort of thing for decades. They also targeted innocent citizens of allied countries. Take the CIA for example. They were running almost rampant in Australia and NZ during the 60s, 70s and 80s. Many of their targets were aware of what was going on but they couldn't say anything because few people would have believed them.

   Labour Party supporters and activists were particularly vulnerable and anyone who dared to have any contact – for whatever reason – with Russian nationals. My father was one of them. He couldn't harm a fly but that didn't stop them.
   • francesca 7.1

     16 September 2020 at 10:36 am

     Sympathy for you and your father Anne

     Tough times
     • Anne 7.1.1

       16 September 2020 at 11:08 am

       He's been gone many years francesca but the last years of his life were destroyed and I will never forgive the bastards who were responsible.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.2

     16 September 2020 at 1:35 pm

     It's an abhorrent practice but the West has been doing the same sort of thing for decades.

     As abhorrent as it is its also necessary because if we didn't do it we wouldn't be able to act to defend ourselves.

     It's when such information is used for an attack that it breaches ethics and, by the way the Chinese labelled some people, it was obviously being used as an attack vector. That's what politically vulnerable means.
     • Anne 7.2.1

       16 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

       It's when such information is used for an attack that it breaches ethics…

       Precisely what I mean by abhorrent practice. Its what happened to my father.
8. Mika 8

   16 September 2020 at 11:26 am

   This is an interesting essay on how collusion between the authoritarian neoliberal left and "woke capitalism" has displaced actual activism for social change with "public castigation, social media mobbing or termination of employment".

   https://savageminds.substack.com/p/whats-driving-authoritarianism-today
9. Chris 9

   16 September 2020 at 12:08 pm

   TVNZ realised the public mood shifting around the Trump-esque lies Hosking engages in every day of the week and sacked him. It's a much bigger ask but it'd be progress if Newstalk ZB followed suit.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300108163/mike-hoskings-comments-about-italys-coronavirus-deaths-misleading-bsa
   • Draco T Bastard 9.1

     16 September 2020 at 2:32 pm

     Although Hosking was found to be in breach of the Radio Code of Broadcasting Practice, the BSA did not make an order, instead saying its decision “was sufficient to censure the broadcaster and to provide guidance to broadcasters generally”.

     No, really, it isn't.

     The whole point of having codes is that there are consequences to breaching them especially after they’ve done it several times.
   • tc 9.2

     16 September 2020 at 3:40 pm

     Given the context in these covid times this 'code' requires an overhaul if mr journalism suffers no consequences.
10. greywarshark 10

    16 September 2020 at 12:34 pm

    Some interesting stuff about hemp if you missed it on Monday.

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2009/S00197/hemp-just-needs-the-nod-a-2bn-transition-for-nzs-economy.htm

    Never used the smoking stuff, but the value of the basic plants gives me a high. Perhaps we can get out of the conservative-blinkers into something with good prospects, slap taxes on second homes and above, and direct investment away from selling our basic needs to the wealthy and impoverishing the rest of us.

    Has anyone thought that it follows the pattern of the Irish Famine – they had crops of corn I think but that had been contracted for delivery outside Ireland, I think to the British Army. Business before people, who would have been cited as a 'restraint to trade' if they had successfully blocked the export. And trade and profit are sacred matters to money-makers; people are expendable but suffer without homes and food.
    • mac1 10.1

      16 September 2020 at 12:57 pm

      "On a Single Day" by Christy Moore on exports from Cork in September 1847. Meanwhile up the road in Skibbereen lie thousands buried in mass graves. Business before people……..

      Here's a link to Christy Moore.
      • karol121 10.1.1

        17 September 2020 at 2:35 pm

        They say that society is between 3 and 9 meals from anarchy, but it would depend on a number of other factors as well. Just the same, it seems to be a good rule of thumb as opposed to a rule of law.

        For an individual, it may vary say for example, the point where a vegan or vegetarian would stop using a draft horse for agricultural purpose or for riding to and from the village on and slaughter it so as to cut it in to delicious bite size chunks for consumption.

        I guess New Zealand has one thing going for it. That even if the economy were to go into free fall and we run out of backers and run out of those who would trade with us relative to what we have left to offer, which is kai, man!

        Of course, unless or until someone with a large army decided that our fodder was going to be acquired by them, by hook or by crook.

        We also have heaps of concepts and creative alternative lifestyle thoughts. Sure, we can’t eat these, but Hell, they must be worth something during a serious crisis.
    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      16 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

      Quoting article:

      Tourism accommodation, hospitality, and events/attractions are dependent for the foreseeable future on the smaller domestic market tourism.

      We therefore need to urgently expand existing food crops and develop new crops which bring capital investment into the regions- and thus jobs- to help replace the loss of international revenues and jobs.

      Non sequitur. Just because the tourism sector is collapsing doesn't mean that we need more farms.

      There is substantial interest from investors to add the capital required into the industry to achieve rapid growth and scale for export marketing.

      Agricultural export is a bad move as the excessive farming we already have has proved to our detriment.

      We now need the entrepreneurial vision and determination, backed by our national economic agencies as well as investment funders

      We do need the entrepreneurial vision and determination but we don't need the bludging investors who are no more than a blight upon our society.

      Prior to this law change Hemp was a staple industrial crop in the USA and Europe because the motive power for sailing ships was hemp fibre for rigging, ropes and canvas sails.

      By the time that the War on Drugs made hemp illegal it was no longer a staple for motive power. Sailing ships were long gone to the Age of Steam and diesel was on the up and up. Really, if it had still been vital there would have been no way to make it illegal.

      Of course, there was still no way ethical way to make hemp illegal and so some industrialists got together and made it so anyway. They just wanted to get rid of the competition.

      If government wishes to support the rapid growth of revenue and regional jobs from Hemp, then the next Prime Minister needs to cut through the red tape and finesse the Hemp amendment regulations.

      No, that is most definitely what the government should not be doing as it removes the necessary pricing to ensure that its actually a viable industry. Better regulations, certainly, but not the removal of regulations.

      Instead of allowing the major construction companies to find the cheapest ways of using its post-Covid-19 investments (with substantial imports), the NZ Government could mandate the use of low or positive environmental impact materials such as hemp.

      While I agree this is actually more about ensuring that there's local demand to support the burgeoning industry. In other words, he's asking for government guaranteed profits.
      • Maurice 10.2.1

        16 September 2020 at 5:31 pm

        Surely all that is required for the burgeoning Hemp industry to guarantee profits is for us to all go back to hemp roped sailing ships? No more fuel oil either!
        • Stuart Munro 10.2.1.1

          16 September 2020 at 8:32 pm

          Hemp jeans would be a good start – very long life fabric.
11. greywarshark 11

    16 September 2020 at 12:57 pm

    edit
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/426163/national-health-policy-promises-800m-in-new-funding-over-four-years-targeting-pharmac-and-cancer

    National health, an oxymoron. Did people hear the extravagant promises made under the National banner this morning. This from the party that is always promising to cut taxes. They know that their moron followers think that money grows on trees which are eternally fruitful. They know how to use it for their own purposes, but not how to put it back into the economy like fertiliser, to have a modern, thriving, busy and healthy country.

    There is talk about 'navigators' and apparently they have picked that up from the UK. That is where the services have been run down, tightened so a patient can't have enough time with their GP to discuss more than one of their health problems! The country where they lied to the people about the money that would be released for their health system by going for Brexit and the main proponents of that have been in close contact with Big Pharma in the USA! And where they are really good at handling Covid-19 in a timely fashion and developing systems that limit its spread – not!

    This from Dr Reti – 'He says the primary care navigators have been trialled in the United Kingdom with positive outcomes. They would offer counselling, help unlock government agencies, follow up appointments and referrals and do home visits.'

    These under their Surgery heading:

    • Faster elective surgeries, with funding and surgery for patients within four months
    • DHBs will outsource elective surgeries they are unable to complete themselves within that timeframe – to other DHBs or private providers at no extra cost

    Targets – that can't be met, leading to question of capability and a loss of respect for our public services, with more surgery done by private providers while the public hospitals get further squeezed and finally cannot find staff willing to work in them because of their under-funding impoverished state.

    So go private, that will be the answer. Sneer at public, they are just so inefficient, mistakes and faults to heap on them.

    The National Party is disgraceful – they can't lie straight in bed even. Their comment on Pharmac – they will keep it as it is excellent (for our ears) and for Big Pharmas ears – we will have more medicines available.

    "National believes the Pharmac model is the best way to ensure New Zealanders are accessing much-needed medication."

    "Year on year this will be more funding for Pharmac than at any time in the past decade, and New Zealanders will have better access to more medicines.
12. Brigid 12

    16 September 2020 at 2:28 pm

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/09/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-the-assange-hearing-day-6/

    Craig Murray's excellent report on the goings on at the Old Bailey.

    He's also written of the subsequent days 7, 8, and 9
13. karol121 13

    16 September 2020 at 4:55 pm

    I read with interest the media reports ; (Stuff and NZ Herald) and also posts herein; (Anne and Draco Te Bastard) regarding the People's republic of China and reports of a database kept on New Zealanders.

    Is this not terrible?

    Who might have guessed they could have gone THAT far. Max and his baseball aspirations, Winnie and his daughter. Oh My Goodness.

    Yep. The PRC are pretty resourceful from what is gleaned by such disclosures.

    Bad, China. How could you?

    And must I say in support of New Zealand what an entirely non-intrusive, blessed, clean, open, non-corrupted, non-corruptible, humble nation we as a sovereign state along with our fellow residents are, and how few (if any) would ever be likely not go to such lengths.

    We pride ourselves and self promote on how we give everybody a Fair Go. And this must surely extend to the collection, analyses and dissemination of information on other people.

    Surely as good folk, we wouldn't dear go anywhere near intruding or fishing just to get an upper hand on anybody else in relation to business, finances, politics, nor in relation to assessing competitors, nor even simply because we do not like someone or some group for any particular reason whether or not we get rewarded for doing so.

    Surely we would rarely even engage in the wide or small scale collection of public domain material (court records for example), nor business and personal data on each other just to find out more about other Kiwis.

    We leave it up to govern-mental for most of this, do we not?

    Why? Because, again, it's simply not a Fair Go, and besides, there hefty penalties for unauthorized access to any closed material.

    However, the reason we do not intrude in such a way as good Kiwis is not out of fear in relation to such legislation, it is because we care for each other so deeply and we like to think of ourselves as both ambassadors and teachers (even preachers) to the world, from our Aotearoa land of plenty that so many call "Godzone".

    Isn't there some law we could invent or manufacture to stop others looking at us this way.

    Darn camera clickers and busy bodies they must appear to be, all on their own.

    Unlike New Zealanders with all of our values and good conduct, and where butter would not melt in our mouths in relation to intrusion for profit, out of curiosity or to collect brownie points.
    • greywarshark 13.1

      16 September 2020 at 10:09 pm

      I'm now thinking about drones. It seems that nothing must happen to stop things happening until they do happen and then that is so unexpected.
      • karol121 13.1.1

        17 September 2020 at 2:45 pm

        Amen, I think

        But what if they do, then when will we do, or will we do?

        I'm thinking satellites in orbit.
    • Anne 13.2

      16 September 2020 at 10:27 pm

      I assume you are being sarcastic karol121. I certainly hope so. NZ is not squeaky clean. Never has been and never will be.

      But no, I don't think our establishment would ever stoop to the levels some other countries are prepared to go – and that includes China.
      • karol121 13.2.1

        17 September 2020 at 2:42 pm

        Yes indeed. It was a little tongue in cheeky.

        But most Kiwis I've come across are curious folk when it comes to looking over the back fence, and then pointing the finger when others appear to be inquisitive or nosy.

        No offence intended

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS