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Open Mike 17/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 17th, 2018 - 162 comments
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162 comments on “Open Mike 17/04/2018 ”

    • Cinny 1.1

      What an excellent article, thanks for posting Sacha.

      This bit speaks volumes…..

      “How do media narratives get formed? Ideology is part of it. Ideology is manifested in certain assumptions that the mainstream media tends to share with its corporate owners.”

      The long list of our new governments achievements since taking office at the end of the article makes me feel very proud. Well done coalition, well done.

    • ScottGN 1.2

      Stacey Kirk in STUFF this morning is a classic example. “Ardern’s toughest test yet”. Laced with the notion that she really might not be up to this foreign diplomacy business?

      • mauī 1.2.1

        and “Stacey Kirk: Jacinda Ardern can count trade mission a success barring no late disasters”

        lol, the disaster is just around the corner apparently, and no we can’t write an opinion piece congratulating her that would be an endorsement, we only did that with Key.

        • Tamati Tautuhi

          According to MSM Key was the most dearly loved PM in the history of NZ, and the most popular ever ?

      • patricia bremner 1.2.2

        Actually Scott, I thought the same ’till I read it. It came through that Stacey admires how Jacinda has performed, especially her speech to the university climate student’s conference. Also she felt Jacinda had succeeded in her goals. The heading possibly put up by some sub editor?

        • dukeofurl

          Thats right , the journalists dont write the leads and sub leads.

          The editors do that for the clicks and keep advertisers happy

  1. AsleepWhileWalking 2

    The PM has that special glow. Its exciting to think the First Baby will be here soon.

  2. Kat 3

    Jacinda Ardern has members in her coalition cabinet that have obviously a lot more experience and she cannot therefore be expected to be such an authoritative “Iron Lady” leader as Helen Clark. Jacinda Ardern as PM does bring a particular boldness though and her strengths are the highly developed negotiation skills she has already exhibited. I would view her leadership style as more affiliative and democratic.

    And yes that is a good read from Campbell, quite a few in the media are going to have to change that negative narrative or face looking pretty stupid in the coming future.

    • ScottGN 3.1

      Do you reckon? I think it’s far more likely they will just persist with the narrative they’ve chosen and resort to more and more crazy ways to re-in force it in the face of contrasting evidence.

      • Sanctuary 3.1.1

        Like getting rid of credible journalists and replacing them with the ramblings of a National party loving wingnut radio shock jock re-published as an “opinion piece” on the front page ever single day?

        • dukeofurl

          he doesnt appear on the front page of the newspaper.

          The online version has dynamic placing, if YOU like political stories thay put that first if you generally like sports they will get higher placing.
          Its all done through cookies, currently NZH has around 60+ cookies every time you open an online page

    • patricia bremner 3.2

      Yes Kat, I agree. Claire Trevitt was grudgingly admiring her adept handling of Macron and her obviously friendly contact with Trudeau again, pointing out they are of the same generation. She admitted Jacinda appeared to have met her goal in Trade.

      • Kat 3.2.1

        Patricia, it is going to be a hard swallow for some of these commentators. Watching them backtrack on all the negative narrative should be entertaining at least. Is that old croak Soper still grounded, maybe we should thank Trump for that.

    • JanM 3.3

      They are already starting to sound a bit pathetic IMO

  3. OncewasTim 4

    Does any1 know if there is still a 4th Estate Club?
    Years ago there used to be a bar above a business in Hobson St where the likes of the raspy-voiced angry men would go and get pissed.
    Do they just frequent trendy bars these days?

    • Sanctuary 4.1

      Nah, the raspy-voiced angry men are almost all gone now. The very odd dinosaur remains – Soper – but mostly some got into PR for corporates, some became right wing press secretaries, a few eek out a hard scrabble living on piece rates, others went completely loopy and set up libertarian websites dedicated to masturbation, and the rest have been pensioned off to occasionally surface on Jim Mora’s panel as curiosities of a past age.

      • patricia bremner 4.1.1

        Sanctuary, Lol LOL …. “Jim Mora’s panel of curiosities of a past age”
        I couldn’t resist the small change. Heh Heh.

      • OncewasTim 4.1.2

        Yep…that’s what I thought.
        And not just Mora’s ‘The Panel’ either.
        I think I’d rather be amongst the ones eeking out a living on piece rates somehow

    • veutoviper 4.2

      That Hobson Street memory goes back a long way, OWTim!

      I am pretty sure that females are now the predominant gender (no offence intended; I am one) in the Parliamentary Press Gallery now days, and home cooking (cakes etc) and wine in the office are quite frequent occurrences, as are cafes (eg Astoria) and wine bars, Back Benchers etc – and gyms.

      Dogs also seem very popular pets with them (eg Andrea Vance, Chris Bramwell and others – exception being Katie Bradford), especially as the new Speaker is a big fan of dogs as well as babies, and fur babies are sometimes now seen “within the precinct”.

      Twitter – rather than Google – is your friend on this type of (useless) trivia.

      • OncewasTim 4.2.1

        I was one of the people working for my father in the business below.
        Looking back, they were a sad bunch mostly.

        • veutoviper

          How interesting! It was before my time but I have heard or read about the the club and the bar. Would love to hear more – eg time period, who attended etc if you can or can head me in the right direction to find out more.

          • OncewasTim

            The names are now a blur except Sanctary’s ideas about where they’ve ended up is most likely on the mark.
            I’m more familiar with people that staffed the old Dom reading room in Wellington.

  4. swordfish 5

    “Honeymoon Over”, you say MSM ???

    Latest Colman Brunton still has Labour & Govt Bloc well up on Election result (even if down on previous CB):

    April CB vs Election

    Lab ……. L+G ……. Govt ……….. Nat …… Oppo …… Other

    + 6 ……… + 6 ……… + 4 ………….. = ………. – 1 ………… – 3

    Govt vs Oppo
    (Rounded %)

    2017 Election: … 50 vs 45 …. (5 point Gov’t lead)
    Latest CB: ………..54 vs 44 …. (10 point Gov’t lead)

    • Sanctuary 5.1

      “Let’s relentlessly attack the new government for over a month to build a narrative that is flusteringly incompetent then commission a poll then use a bovinely stupid and selective FPP interpretation of that poll to add to the relentless attacks on this flusteringly incompetent government.”

    • Pat 5.2

      ah but we musn’t let the facts undermine the narrative…shame on you Swordfish, you should be much more like Mr Espiner and have slippery fish write your script.

      • Ed 5.2.1

        54:44 and still described as a ‘poll backlash ‘ by Hosking.
        To ensure we know how biased he is, he describes the government as ‘shambolic’ and ‘amateurish’.
        Must be in a bad mood after crashing his car.

    • patricia bremner 5.3

      Swordfish … Brilliant as usual.

    • Kat 5.4

      Yes its an irony for the msm in that “actually” the honeymoon for the coalition “govt” is trucking along quite nicely. Guess they will be keeping that quiet for awhile.

    • Bewildered 5.5

      From a new government perspective in contrast to nationals first term not great, pm only at 37pc not great I agree it’s not take a pill time but let’s not over play it, it’s not great either with trend going wrong way, support parties perilous close to 5pc , it all feels rather tenuous and things could slide very quickly if economy turns down, likewise oil gas exploration decision is not in these numbers Also agree Simon numbers not great but party holding up which is a key difference from cunners, shearer, and Andy leadership stints

    • Bearded Git 5.6

      Nice one Swordfish-simple analysis that says it all.

      Hooton was talking bollocks on this poll on RNZ yesterday, though the whole debate is worth a listen. Stephen Mills sticks to his guns well.

    • newsense 5.7

      Yep absolute bullshit.

      From Herald, Radio NZ and TVNZ.

      Also just imagine the fap apon fap if John Key had got a French President to say that a trade deal was a priority?

      There would be endless carry on.

  5. spikeyboy 6

    Anybody else had an offer to install google opinion rewards just appear on their android? Would this be an attempt to compete with personal preference and psychometric data collection a la facebook. Big data of this sort is big money when sold to the likes of Cambridge Analytica.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1

      Yes but I’ve had a couple of offers recently when I opened the phone and not just from Google. It’s rather irritating and disturbing.

      • Incognito 6.1.1

        I am curious (and ignorant) whether phones are intrinsically more prone to these kinds of attempts than PCs or whether they’re specifically more targeted? Also, how many phone users have installed AV software on their phones?

    • McFlock 6.2

      Not had it, but I assume “opinion rewards” maens some sort of paymet/reward token? Probably F-all per response, but more than CA ever offered for their snooping.

  6. swordfish 7

    Comparing Major Opposition Party’s performance in First Poll after Leadership change (in 1st Term following Turnover Election)

    McLay (Nat) 1984 … next poll … Nat up 7 points

    Bolger (Nat) 1986 … next poll … Nat up 4 points

    English (Nat) 2001 … next poll … Nat up 2 points (NBR-Compaq) … Nat down 1 point (Colmar Brunton) … Nat down 2 points (TV3 CM Research)

    Goff (Lab) 2008 … next poll … Lab down 2 points

    Bridges (Nat) 2018 … next poll … Nat down 0.4 points

    • swordfish 7.1

      Damn ! …should be:

      Bridges (Nat) 2018 … next poll … Nat up 1 point
      (down 0.4 points on Election … but up 1 point on previous CB)

      Bridges, incidentally, has débuted on a lower Preferred PM rating than English did in 2001 (so … a kind of early Bill English but without the charisma)

      • Sanctuary 7.1.1

        Like their candidate for Northcote National seem to be specialising in self-described self-made masters of the universe types with a braying voice, an oil slick on their head, brightly polished shoes and an ill-fitting tight suit.

      • Incognito 7.1.2

        (so … a kind of early Bill English but without the charisma)


      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.3

        (so … a kind of early Bill English but without the charisma)


    • Baba Yaga 7.2

      “It is interesting to compare how this Government is doing compared to the previous one at the same time. How does April 2017 and April 2009 compare poll wise.

      Main governing party – 43% in 2017 and 57% in 2009
      Main opposition party – 44% in 2017 and 31% in 2009
      PM as Preferred PM – 37% in 2017 and 51% in 2009
      Opposition Leader as Preferred PM – 10% in 2017 and 6% in 2009”


      • Incognito 7.2.1

        I do like your link as it doesn’t just point to one specific article but to the whole collective works. But I do realise National supporters like big data and lots of hysterical arm-waving and don’t cope well with specifics, detail, nuance, or context.

        To return the favour I highly recommend this one to you: https://thestandard.org.nz/ 😉

      • Barfly 7.2.2

        Hey Baba take out the “Main”

        Don’t look so flash for your mob now does it. No mates National = fail

        • Baba Yaga

          I quoted the piece verbatim. I prefer not to remove words from other peoples quotes.

      • Gabby 7.2.3

        Still not getting the MMP thing babby?

      • swordfish 7.2.4

        Baba Yaga

        (1) 2018 Left / Govt Bloc support divided among 3 Parties
        …. 2009 Right / Govt Bloc support very tightly coalesces around Nats

        (2) Broad consensus after 2011 Election that 2009-2011 Polls overstated Nat support

        (3) Ardern Govt’s lead over Oppo greater than that enjoyed by Clark Govt at comparable point in First Term (2000’s Winter of Discontent was on its way)

        (4) Ardern’s Preferred PM trajectory similar to Clark’s after 1999 Election.
        We’ve had 14 Prime Ministers since regular polling commenced in 1969: and Ardern is already out-rating 10 of her 13 immediate predecessors. Only Muldoon, Clark and Key were more popular (and with Muldoon, this was only in the relatively brief period when he reached his apex).

        (5) Bridges débuting slightly better than one of the lowest ever rating Oppo leaders (Goff) but appreciably worse than 2001 Bill English (remember Nat historic defeat 02 ?) is possibly nothing to crow about.

        • Baba Yaga

          NZF is NOT part of a left bloc.

          • swordfish

            NZF is NOT part of a left bloc

            Which would quite possibly be why I wrote: “2018 Left / Govt Bloc”

            Left Bloc support divided among 2 Parties / broader Govt Bloc support divided among 3

            But this all seems like a slightly desperate diversion to me. No substantive rebuttal of my 5 points, then, you impulsive young scallywag ?

    • Ed1 7.3

      Your careful wording is a reminder that the National spin machine will happily foment comparisons between apples and pears if it suits their agenda – as identified here: https://subzpsubzp.blogspot.co.nz/2018/01/farrars-honeymoon-scam_19.html

      Comparing the “we buy all our friends” Nats with “we look after all our friends” Labour, the current poll results do encourage both parties to do the right thing for the long term and pass a reduction in the party threshold in accrdance with the Commission recommendation – it is perhaps an indication of a slight tilt by the media that I cannot recall any articles such as the following at the time National rejected that change:

    • Carolyn_Nth 7.4

      And TVNZ is reporting that Ardern is buoyed by the poll.

      Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she’s buoyed by a poll showing support for the coalition Government has grown since election night, despite a drop for Labour.

      “Ultimately I see these numbers as support for the coalition Government because as I say, they’ve grown since election night and that’s the kind of trajectory I’m looking for and interested in.”

      Although the latest poll shows a five-point drop for Labour, its last poll at 48 per cent seemed unusually high.

      Ardern appeared unconcerned by the latest result.

      “As I said when that last poll came out, and Labour was on 48 per cent, I expressed some cynicism as to whether that reflected reality. I think this one is a little bit closer to what’s happening on the ground.”

      Speaking to TVNZ this morning, Labour’s deputy leader and acting Prime Minister Kelvin Davis said coalition support was strong on 54 per cent, but Bridges should be concerned.

      “The result, I think, should be worrying Simon Bridges in that he’s debuted on 10 per cent, when Jacinda became Prime Minister she debuted on 26 per cent.

      “He needs to be looking over his shoulder because we know Amy Adams and Judith Collins are probably rubbing their hands together with glee.”

    • ianmac 7.5

      Reality from Swordfish. Thanks.

  7. Ad 8

    Here’s the latest warning as a Technical Alert from the common analytic efforts of the UK and US on sustained Russia hacking:


    “This joint Technical Alert (TA) is the result of analytic efforts between the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and the United Kingdom’s National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC). This TA provides information on the worldwide cyber exploitation of network infrastructure devices (e.g., router, switch, firewall, Network-based Intrusion Detection System (NIDS) devices) by Russian state-sponsored cyber actors. Targets are primarily government and private-sector organizations, critical infrastructure providers, and the Internet service providers (ISPs) supporting these sectors. This report contains technical details on the tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) used by Russian state-sponsored cyber actors to compromise victims. Victims were identified through a coordinated series of actions between U.S. and international partners.

    This report builds on previous DHS reporting and advisories from the United Kingdom, Australia, and the European Union. [1-5] This report contains indicators of compromise (IOCs) and contextual information regarding observed behaviors on the networks of compromised victims.

    FBI has high confidence that Russian state-sponsored cyber actors are using compromised routers to conduct man-in-the-middle attacks to support espionage, extract intellectual property, maintain persistent access to victim networks, and potentially lay a foundation for future offensive operations.”

    Worth reading the whole thing, in terms of impact, weaponisation, and command and control from Russia.

    Fill yer boots.

    • lprent 8.1

      Looks like it will be worth reading. There has been some large scale activity in cyber infrastructure over the last decade, from the US and just about every larger power. But the only obvious active usages that I am aware of from state actors have been the US/Israeli attempt on Irans nucs program and the a series of ones on small neighbors (especially the Ukraine, but also other Baltic states and Georgia).

      But when I’m observing activity from what I see on my net side the activity levels from Russia is still pretty damn high. Accounts for about 10% of the total net load on my servers. While threats from other regions have diminished over time (China for instance is way down, and the US server farms are obviously getting better managed), Russian server probes don’t.

      • Macro 8.1.1

        Yes even on the minor web site I manage for a local organisation here, the number of visits from St Petersburg is amazing. Might be because it has “Thames” in the name.

    • Exkiwiforces 8.2

      Janes Defence Services did a article on Hybrid Warfare in which Cyber Warfare is a key enabler for Hybrid Warfare.

      And if I still have on my laptop I can forward it on as it’s a good read, IRT’s what has happen in the last 24hrs.

      • Ad 8.2.1

        Definitely worth keeping abreast of the actual people charged with defending our digital realms.

        Now that you are out of the Forces, I hope you keep abreast of the published defence analyses from EU, British, and US digital defence institutions and forums.

        Here’s one I cited a few months back, and most of its points are still highly relevant to today’s context:


        And Kiwi you should start doing posts for us on defence matters. On this site you know your stuff better than anyone.

        • Exkiwiforces

          Thanks your comment Ad,

          Yes would like to contribute more to The Standard with financial donations and also posts on Defence, Aid, Peacekeeping, ANZAC Day, Trade and Climate charge on Defence and HADR. But need to short out my gramma,as its rather shit house and construct my sentences a little better especially talking about the above tropics. Also I tend to use a graphs as well to explain what I’m talking about and a few other things I’ll need to discuss with the Mod’s.

          I don’t officially leave the mob until midnight of the 2nd of Jul and at the moment I’m busy with moving house and we had buy a new house at the sametime, still have to clear up after the Cat 2 Cyclone and start preparing for the up and coming fire season during the dry season which officially starts on the 1st of May. There is also a wedding in there somewhere almost that lot and a ANZAC Day.

          I have a couple of drafts on my laptop on a couple of Defence tropics, one ANZAC Day and a Aid/Defence and HADR one within the SP Region. As the next couple of mths are going to be busy for me my partner and I . Ifeel that I won’t be able do justice to the posts as I can’t answer peoples questions or contribute to a more in-depth discussion on posted posts. On the tropics that I like to talk about are very long term one IRT’s funding, manning, equipment etc as the environment we are currently living in is charging quite rapidly in a non- kinetic and kinetic way IRT climate change, aforeign power possibly moving into the SP and the long terms effects it could have on the region as will as all the other stuff going on atm. Not forgeting Peacekeeping which has put me into the position which I’m now found myself facing.

          A enough of me bumping my gums atm, as I must hit the sack now as we move house today.

  8. Incognito 9

    For those Editors and Sub-Editors who seem to lack of imagination and struggle coming up with headlines here are some suggestions:

    Bridges’ collapse

    Bridges to nowhere

    National on the cusp of another term in O-ppis-ition

    Government cementing lead

    MMP is working!

    Government on extended honeymoon in Europe

    National still short of majority and coalition partners

    Bennett can’t stop giggling at poll

    Hosking speechless after another crash

    Kardashians ‘accept’ ‘support’ disastrous poll

    Jason and Max spotted

    Judith Collins tweets

    • Ed 9.1

      ‘Hosking speechless after another crash’

      Sadly, no.
      His most recent opinion piec gets top billing on the Herald online.
      And he’s obviously either
      a) really bad at Maths
      b) lying

      because he says 54:44 represents a ‘poll backlash’

      • Incognito 9.1.1

        The problem with Hosking, IMHO, is that he’s in a permanent state of speechlessness but he still opens his mouth and then utters these weird sounds that make no sense whatsoever. I feel for the poor guy; he’s got nothing to say of any substance but his mouth keeps opening like a little guppy in fish tank full of green algae. It must be awful.

        • Tamati Tautuhi

          He opens his mouth and spits out garbage but the brain is not in gear.

          The guy spent 3 years in Form 5 at Linwood High School in Christchurch FFS ?

          What do you expect from a person lacking in basic education.

        • ianmac

          Trouble is that the endless doom and gloom for the Govt from odd bods like Hosking is that for those people who have only a passing interest, the repetitions slowly sink in. At the water cooler it becomes, “I hear that the Government is sinking.”

          • Incognito

            Possibly, but it could also become “I hear that Hilarious Hosking opened his mouth again”. Hosking could do damage to National by his over-reaching ‘narrative’, like the ‘mad drunk uncle’ who can spoil a fun party.

          • adam

            There is a narrative forming that Hosking is an anger little man. Who is only losing the plot, because not everything is going his way.

      • Bewildered 9.1.2

        I think the main point here ignoring numbers is that we are on the precipice of returning to fpp if minor parties fail, likewise NZF is not a lock in for labour for eternity if they manage to survive ( unlikely) If poll number had Vix like measure ( stock index measure of volatility) the COL Vix would be very high at the moment been a lot more susceptible to downward change like a very volatile stock or index price , national numbers in turn turn rock solid dependable that you go to when volatility hits

        • Incognito

          How many shares do you have in Facebook and Tesla?

          COL: Buy Now

          NAT: Hold

          • Bewildered

            I am not sure col is a buy, trend is down and volatility appears one way, ie we know it’s ceiling price, National appears a lot safer bet long term to rise slowly with near history of a lot higher ceiling price ( 58pc) Likewise minor col partners stocks inherently high risk and could crash to zero with. 10 percent movement down

            • Incognito

              Disagree. NAT is likely to split into separate divisions and has exhausted its options for growth. OTOH, COL has not reached its full potential yet and while the market is mostly in watch-mode some savvy early movers have read the signs correctly and gone for the long-term investment. The volatility is a good sign; lack of movement indicates staleness, lack of innovation and renewal, lack of growth, lack of leadership.

              • Bewildered

                We will see, I suggest the future call price on national poll numbers at present would be a lot higher than col, 😊

            • Tamati Tautuhi

              I would have the Coalition as a STRONG BUY, and National as a SELL.

              Can’t see Bridgeless getting much more support, he is like a squirming
              weasel ?

              • Bewildered

                Yes but national value is about the party and the team, labour more so the leader who preference rating is quite low comparatively

                • Incognito

                  National is about monopoly and monoculture while the Coalition is about diversity and healthy competition that stimulates innovative change and improvement over time. The Coalition espouses free market ideology better than Nation, which is ironic (but not surprising).

                  • Bewildered

                    I agree labour are more about change but change for change sake, and poor policy or no plan ie student fees the former oil and gas the latter is not good Some times do nothing until you have every thing lined up makes more sense, national you can go the other way, ie doing nothing when the bleeding obvious is staring them in the face

        • Ed

          You are welcome to believe Hosking

  9. Morrissey 10

    Was there any condemnation by that moral warrior Theresa May after this?

    From the Aida refugee camp in 2015…..

    “We will hit you with gas until you die: the children, the youth, the old people. You will all die, we won’t leave any of you alive. We have arrested one of you, he’s with us now, we took him from his home. And we will slaughter and kill him while you watch if you keep throwing stones. Go home or we will gas you until you die. Your families, your children, everyone. We will kill you. Listen to me, all of you go home, it’s better for you.”

    This warning from the “most moral army in the world” starts at the 26.39 mark….

  10. Brigid 11

    The Waitākere civic centre in Henderson was made possible through a deal with Te Kawerau ā Maki.

    In exchange for some of the land in Henderson where the civic building now sits, Waitākere City Council agreed to help the iwi build a marae at Te Henga. This deal has not yet been fulfilled by the council.

    At a cost of $39 million, the 2007 Waitākere City Council building was considered a statement on West Auckland eco-identity.
    The site is currently valued at $57 million.

    Now the council wants to sell the centre.

    Rotten bastards


  11. Morrissey 12

    Max Blumenthal: “Germany is a really weird, parochial, intellectually backward place.”

    Germany, where the grandchildren of Nazis denounce American Jews as “anti-Semites”.

    “It’s not easy being Green, especially when you’re a puppet for a right wing muppet.”—Max Blumenthal, re Germany’s infamously stupid Green politician Volker Beck.

    • adam 12.1

      The reframing is interesting, It’s like the whole ‘self hating Jew’ thing. A few mates are called that a regular basis. They laugh at it, they are anti zionist and proud.

  12. AB 13

    Jessica Mutch on TV1 breakfast today (Can’t link the damn thing sorry) including the “Middlemore saga” as one of the reasons Labour’s poll numbers have gone down.
    Picked my jaw up off the floor.
    Two possible explanations come to mind:
    1.) she’s just plain lying
    2.) she has a very sophisticated understanding of how corrupt and useless the media are – i.e.that any bad news about anything, whatever its origin, will be sheeted home to even a mildly leftist government like this one – because the media is peopled by well-paid, change averse, middle-class insiders who like their overseas holidays and restaurant meals and hanging round the peripheries of power.

    Has to be no.1

    • Ed 13.1

      It’s number 1.
      These excuses for journalists know there’s no pay rise, promotion or future pr contract in the corporate world if they don’t toe the establishment line.

      • Bewildered 13.1.1

        Citation and proof please that this is how media operates Even just one journalist providing hard evidence of such

        • Ed

          Here is one.
          Jane Akre.

          For many, many more examples.
          Google is your friend

          • Bewildered

            Must try harder Ed

            Nz example would also be more relevent


            The two lost that final challenge with the FCC in July 2007 calling the conflict an “editorial dispute … rather than a deliberate effort by [WTVT] to distort news.”[10]

            • Ed

              I’m not researching for you.
              You are welcome to have faith in the impartiality of the media.
              After WMD, the TPP and the Afghanistan debacle, I don’t.
              And if you’re curious, you could find out why.
              But I am not wasting my day doing that research for you , when it appears you have already made your mind up.

              • Bewildered

                Epic fail Ed, the only proof you put forward was proven false, this gives me no confidence I should take your advise

                • Ed

                  You don’t need to take my advice. I am not expecting you to.

                  We disagree on the media.
                  And I’m not interested in a discussion which starts to degenerate into trading insults.

                  • Bewildered

                    Not trading insults ed, you can’t be expected to put forward opinion and not be challenged Not much point of the site if that’s the case 😊

      • joe90 13.1.2

        no pay rise, promotion or future pr contract in the corporate

        Preferable to what happens to journalists who don’t toe the establishment line in Putin’s Russia.


        New York, April 16, 2018–Russian authorities must conduct a thorough investigation into the death of journalist Maksim Borodin and consider the possibility that he was killed in retribution for his reporting, the Committee to Protect Journalists said today.

        Borodin, a Yekaterinburg-based investigative correspondent for the independent news website Novy Den, died yesterday after falling on April 12 from the balcony of his fifth-floor apartment, local media and his employer reported.

        In the past few weeks, Borodin gained national attention for his reporting on the deaths in Syria of Russian private military contractors fighting on the side of President Bashar al-Assad, according to the Guardian. The journalist also reported on corruption and the prison system in his native region of Sverdlovsk, the paper reported.

        “We call on Russian authorities to launch an effective, fair, and transparent investigation into the circumstances surrounding Maksim Borodin’s death and not to rule out foul play,” CPJ Europe and Central Asia Program Coordinator Nina Ognianova said. “Russia has a record of brushing aside suspicious deaths of members of the press. We urge authorities on both the regional and federal level to consider that Borodin may have been attacked and that his investigative journalism was the motive.”


        • Ed

          All media has to be looked at with skepticism.

          • Bewildered

            Agree, “all” including your favourites

            • Ed

              Great we agree.

              • Bewildered

                We do indeed 😊 Maybe if you take media feeds from both sides and synthesise the argument with your own opinion on merit of each arguement (not conflated by strawmen, red herrings, False equivalence, post hoc fallacy etc) instead of bombing us with one sided links, him / she bad, he / she good I might take you more seriously, ( can’t speak for others though) All in all though you can do what you want, there are two ways to debate, to win or to learn, the latter is normally more enriching

                • Ed

                  I agree.
                  It is interesting that some of the sources which are questioning the whole Damascus gas attack are right – not left.

                  • Bewildered

                    Yes they are, Syria is a proxy war with bs on both sides with agendas other than simply Syria To me until the Shi’a and Sunni sort their collective out, accept Israel, separate religion and state they will be the plaything of the great powers and chaos will reign as was Europe during the reformation and earlier

                    • Ed

                      I think there is also the matter of oil pipelines.

                    • Bewildered []

                      Yes I agree not so Syria or Israel as bugger all oil The underlying Sunni Shi’a and schism within, lack of separation of state and religion, tribalism and partition of the Middle East allow it to be manipulated Unless they address these issues , accept what is what is things won’t get better, albeit oil will run out but I bet they will still be at each other throats ( just won’t be on the news) neverless. Unless they come to grips with the reality that keeps them in the dark ages I don’t hold out much hope

                    • Ed

                      I think Syria was intended as the route for oil pipelines.

    • dukeofurl 13.2

      Middlemore saga ?

      Lester Levy the chair up till the election has said they were blocked from spending their capital allocation by a mysterious committee in Wellington ( CIC) which vets all the DHBS capital spending , and delays it of course.

      But the polling bounce is only a few % here or there.
      A 1% change is within the margin of error ( 3%) for the largest partys, labours outside that but not much and it has been a very hard 2 -3 weeks.

      • Sacha 13.2.1

        “has said they were blocked from spending their capital allocation by a mysterious committee in Wellington ( CIC)”

        Do you have a link for that interpretation?

  13. Brigid 15

    This is truly amazing

    “Fares Shehabi MP
    ‏ @ShehabiFares 5h5 hours ago

    Meet the metro of jihadi #Douma! A huge tunnel network for al-Qaeda terrorists built with Western intelligence & Saudi money! Don’t tell us now that the uneducated radicals built this on their own?!”

  14. Pat 16

    No new exploration permits, financial disaster, mass job losses, energy shortfall…..or maybe you would prefer some real world analysis.

    Rod Oram (from 15 minute mark, unless youre a Fletchers shareholder) on NZ oil and gas industry response.


    • adam 16.1

      What happened in Portugal again…. Oh that right, last month was the first month all the power needs were met without fossil fuels.

      This claim by the right show their utter lack of skill or indeed – talent.

  15. Tamati Tautuhi 17

    Trying to buy some tanalised timber posts for fencing and windbreak, evidently suppliers are short and are struggling to get timber supply here in NZ as all our forests are overseas owned, and the product if going for export. Our forests were sold for a pittance by successive Neoliberal Governments both National & Labour.

    Brainless IMHO ?

    Now we are having to replant for our future needs ?

      • savenz 17.1.1

        @Puckish Rogue – yep just wait that 25 years of growing time, and you’ll be away with plenty of posts.

    • savenz 17.2

      @Tamati Tautuhi – Yep, brainless all right. We sell the land and wood cheap, clog up the roads with trucks taking it out to be exported and then reimport the wood as timber and wonder why it cost’s so much to build here.

      Starting to get that way with food, now too. Snapper $40kg in Auckland and it’s cheaper to buy Arctic salmon than South Island. And quite frankly are they even processing the salmon in NZ anymore and is it all ‘farmed’?

    • Rosemary McDonald 17.3

      All those posts are up here in the Far Far North being used in in the huge new avocado orchards.

      Hundreds of thousands of trees been/being planted.

      Regional development… don’t you just love it?

      Pity about the huge demand on the aquifer. Pity about all those nasty chemicals.

      Pity about the 2nd most significant wetland in New Zealand.

  16. mango 18

    New Zealand journalist’s favorite pastime: Over hyped over analysis of statistical noise presented as significant poll shift.

    • Andre 18.1

      Over-analysis of statistical noise is quite popular on this site, too. Posts about polls usually generate a high comment count.

    • newsense 18.2

      In order to attack the government which has quite clearly picked up in popularity since the election. Bullshit and lies. Time for Dick Griffin to go.

      • veutoviper 18.2.1

        Only 13 days to go until Griff’s appointment as Chairperson of the RNZ Board expires on 30 April.

      • Ed 18.2.2

        And time for the take back of the commons.
        The airwaves should be for grassroots organisations, not corporate propaganda.

  17. Ed 19

    The BBC is Britain’s propaganda outlet to the world.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Stunned Mullet 19.1

      Whilst ignoring your bombastic comment, which state funded MSM outlets in Europe do you believe have more editorial freedom than the BBC ?

      • Ed 19.1.1

        Before I waste time on this diversion, can you tell me if you supported the UK/US/French bombing of Syria?

        • Stunned Mullet

          The more correct question would be – ‘can you tell me if you supported the UK/US/French missile strikes of specific sites within Syria ?’

          My answer would be ‘Meh – don’t think it’ll achieve anything much.’

          Your turn to answer my question now.

          • Barfly

            You didn’t answer the question…try again

            Oh fyi it’s binary

            • McFlock

              No, it’s not “binary”.

              For example, I disliked the latest bombing, but for the life of me I can’t decide whether that’s because it was wrong, or simply because it was far too little, far too late.

              It was contemptible because it was either a deliberately ineffectual response to a definite wrong, or because it was a macho, contrived act committed on a thin pretext.

              Damned if I know how to translate that concept into a “yes I support it” or “no I don’t support it”.

          • Ed

            Can you tell me if you supported the UK/US/French missile strikes of specific sites within Syria ?


  18. Ed 20

    The hatchet job by Newsnight on Corbyn shows the BBC’s fierce defence of the establishment.


    Ask the people of Scotland what they think of BBC bias.
    An excellent documentary demonstrates this.
    ‘London Calling.’

    [This is the second ‘off – topic’ comment from you that I’ve shifted. Focus! If I have to keep repeating this exercise I’ll be throwing you in moderation – at a minimum] – Bill

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Kaya3 20.1

      Yes that Newsnight hatchet job was low, even by recent Aunty Beeb (lack of ) standards.

  19. Ed 21

    That about sums it up here.
    When one turns up (Turei) they are attacked relentlessly by the corporate media.
    That didn’t work in the UK with Corbyn. Complacency by the Blairites caused that.
    Nevertheless the attacks on Jeremy continue without pause.
    These real alternatives must be destroyed.

    It will be interesting to see how the media attack Marama , for they will.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  20. Ed 22

    Are the Russians going to be blamed for everything?
    It’s getting quite dull, the new McCarthyism.

    “There are signs New Zealand organisations have been directly threatened by Russian state-sponsored hacking, GCSB director-general Andrew Hampton says.
    “Attributing cyber incidents to particular countries is something that is carefully considered and is a step not taken lightly,” he added.
    The bombshell came in the wake of international concerns about Russian-backed hacks on networking equipment. ”


  21. Cinny 23

    How many times did dirty johnathan coleman brag about X number of bowel screenings?


  22. Ed 24

    Chicken is clearly not good for people’s health.

    Study by University Of Otago finds the following:

    Chicken full of antibiotics.
    60-90% of fresh chicken have high levels of contaminating bacteria.
    30,000 illnesses annually.
    600 hospitalisations.
    Vast majority of NZ are unaware of danger.
    And it is spreading antibiotic-resistant bacteria.


  23. Beatie 25

    Well, what a surprise….

    ‘BREAKING: Pearson Sharp of One America News was on-the-ground in Douma, Eastern Ghouta today. What he discovered should not be a surprise to any informed audience, since we have seen this all before:

    The “chemical weapons attack” did not occur. It was a hoax/false flag designed as a pretext for an escalation of Western war crimes in Syria.’


    [Hardly “breaking”. Francesca posted to the same link hours ago on the “Compassion” post. I’ll let this one through, but do you mind not getting so all twisty knickered and breathless in future? Cheers.] – Bill

  24. Ed 26

    I agree – people need to learn to cook more safely.
    The use of antibiotics is an issue separate to cooking.
    The issue of people’s lack of awareness is another issue.

  25. logie97 27

    Is the sun setting on the Don Brash attitudes at last?
    It may be drawing a long bow, and possibly already commented on by others but did anyone else notice the medal ceremonies for the Sevens when the cameras zoomed in on the individuals – they all appeared to be singing “E Ihowa Atua, etc etc and not “God of nations”

  26. R.P McMurphy 28

    great to see Jacinda Ardern on the world stage. Up where she belongs.

  27. patricia bremner 29

    Yes logie97 Great Isn’t it.

  28. The Am Show good morning music is good for the wairua If we change the radio station at the cow shed the cows don’t walking into the shed good music is good for all.
    Jacinda and Angela look like they are getting on fine two good ladies with Mana.
    Duncan Penny is right all our choices should have the mokopunas well being at the forefront of decision and legislation.I take the mokopunas to the park run them around a bit they love it get home give them A I cream and they settle down .
    I like bananas they are so cheap why is that because of were they come from or who is producing them just because a fruit comes from a third world nation does not mean it should be cheap we should pay more for all these foods that come from 3 world nations like coffey etc that’s a phenomenon there you go Duncan so cheap and popular the most sold product in our super markets every one goes on about the cheap clothing what about food from these nations this is why they are poor we don’t pay them fairly for there products . I get a lot of fruit from my clients they will just rot if I did not pick them there is a another reason why I pick this fruit .
    All I say on the banning smokes how do you enforce the ban lock people up ???? When I went on my trip I noticed most of the young people did not smoke so I say that the high price is working it is having other effects on Maori more money is going into smokes and less on the mokopunas .
    I agree with Paddy Gower the goverment should have a serious look at making laws to sort out the laws let them sell oil with nicotine in it at the minute the retailers of vap oil could sell any oil and make false claims about there prouduct . P.S Why do we go from leaky house and now to a shambles of the Christ Church insurance fiasco I no were to trace both of these issues
    Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 30.1

      Everyone who follows my post knows that I have been researching my tipuna and OUR history well I have found some controversies with our land the shares my tipuna were given 1 percent of the shares that they could claim from ancestral land rights .
      You see my whano live in Tikpa Waiapu valley they get all the other share holders to agree and then they can build . But they are paying leases for the land WTF.
      OUR tipuna received a sword from the Queen of England for his Honorable services to the Crown Kohere Mokena was instrumental one of the main Chief in the Waiapu in my view the main person who stopped the Pai marie movement from taking hold of all Maori in Aoteraroa when they raised there flag he raised the British flag he built Anglican Churches he was a humane leader he was all about the well being of the people . I have read his book and this tell me that his mokopunas did not get there fair shear of there land . All his actions were to protect his mokopuna only to have some people to cheat them after he had moved on .
      His Book is https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwju1eeQqMLaAhXFp5QKHTI5Cb4QFggpMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%2Fabout%2FThe_Story_of_a_Maori_Chief_Mokena_Kohere.html%3Fid%3DFio6AQAAIAAJ&usg=AOvVaw3ycdqLBpvXWRH7xAs4G4kW
      Here is another link of the now in Treaty Settelments P.S I now see one of my goals set by my destiny .

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103171966/rushed-mandate-could-cost-crown-after-waitangi-tribunal-rules-in-iwis-favour Kia Kaha people Ka kite ano

      • eco maori 30.1.1

        Newshub It is good that the Maori musicians show the way Maori respect the tapu of the remains of the people that have past .
        I say that the Head of the Common wealth country’s should go to Prince who will be King Chariles .
        People need to be held responsible for there actions or in actions in this case if someone knows a building is not safe the tenants should be notified and told to leave I feel sorrys for Matti McEachen family . I no what its like not to get justice .
        Ingrid its wind in Rotorua at the minute tawhirimatea has been having fun .
        Ka kite ano P.S I.m going to watch The Crowd Goes Wild

        • eco maori

          The Crowd Goes Wild It good to see Walter Little son playing Rugby
          Tony Brown coaching the Sun Wolves this will bring there level of Rugby up real fast .
          Yes James and Mulls the Hurricanes have a dilemma of who to put on the bench when Nehe Milner Skudder gets past the fitness test
          Ka kite ano P.S The T 20 has launched Cricket into a super sport especially in India

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