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Open Mike 17/07/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 17th, 2017 - 85 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

85 comments on “Open Mike 17/07/2017 ”

  1. James 1

    Winston’s gunning for little not to make it back to government. It might just work.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/07/patrick-gower-winston-reveals-his-plan-to-become-prime-minister.html

    • Ed 1.1

      Morning Sara

      • James 1.1.1

        Happy for the mods to check all ips etc to prove that I’m not Sara – you happy for them to do the same to prove you are not Paul ?

        Regards I’m sure they have better things to do.

        • weka 1.1.1.1

          I’m not logged in so I can’t moderate but this bickering needs to stop. If you think someone is using sock puppets and that’s causing a problem for the site then I suggest emailing Lynn. Otherwise people have a right to not have their pseudonyms questioned.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2

          You do know that all IP addresses in NZ are random don’t you?

          • Xanthe 1.1.1.2.1

            some are

            • In Vino 1.1.1.2.1.1

              Are you thereby saying some aren’t? I think this matters, maybe..

              • Xanthe

                Yes for a number of good reasons people request static IP and some smaller ISP provide them by default. most business accts are static IP. for domestic accts from larger telecos the IP is allocated from a pool but will still tend to stay with a user between modem reboots which can be months.

    • Ad 1.2

      If the Danes can do it, we can do it.
      Makes perfect sense if the numbers went that way and we should just relax.

    • weka 1.3

      Paddy shit stirring again?

      • James 1.3.1

        Not really – it’s a valid view.

        “However, I now see that Peters has a workable strategy to get there in a certain scenario.

        It may be unlikely, it may come to nothing – but Winston Peters has a plan to become Prime Minister.”

        And let’s face it little is prob the best chance he has of rolling labour.

  2. dv 2

    Any one know what the state of the play in the eminmen court case where the nats nicked a eminmen song?

    • James 2.1

      Nicked a song ?

      I have it on good authority (ie most lefties on here commenting on the Kim Dotcom case) that copyright issues are not theft.

      Thus it cannot be nicked.

      • dv 2.1.1

        So what happened in the court case James?

        And by implication you are agreeing it was nicked.
        (Unless you are really a lefty)

      • Xanthe 2.1.2

        @James you either dont have the slightist clue re dotcom case …or you are trolling … or both. either way the issues are completely different in the nat vs eminem

        • james 2.1.2.1

          I understand the differences – But what I was pointing out was that there was a strong opinion on here from a lot that using a copyrighted item was not in ‘fact’ theft.

          • Xanthe 2.1.2.1.1

            Ok yes that view was expressed (and up to a point I agree with it) but in the case of natz vs eminim the work was being used (or abused if you like) for promotional purpose, I think it is a reasonable question….. should an artist retain some control over the messages promoted by their work?… how would bob dylan feel about “masters of war” promoting lockheed martin?

  3. Ethica 3

    Winston gunning for National Party votes. Wouldn’t be surprised to see National collapsing in next few weeks

    • James 3.1

      I don’t see what you see. He may go after them soon. But at the moment he’s after the greens and labour. And it’s working. When labour’s own pollsters have them dropping to 26% you know it’s working.

      I guess he can only drive them so low – there will always be people who will only vote labour regardless and their vote won’t drop any further. It’s just how low that number is.

      • marty mars 3.1.1

        Yeah i can just see a green voter going, ‘nah Winnie first for me now’. Its a joke james and silly from you, even sillier than that time you wore a silly hat and everyone said oh look hes being silly he is.

        • james 3.1.1.1

          And yet the polls show its happening from labour. Go figure.

          • marty mars 3.1.1.1.1

            No they don’t

          • adam 3.1.1.1.2

            Put down the crack pipe and walk away james, your starting to spew rubbish at an exhilarated pace.

            And the drop of a point or two from labour went green – that much is obvious.

            So the 4% drop from the gnats went were exactly…

            Oh wait dealthy silence, as they right wing troll won’t accept the polls telling them the gnats are falling. Silly troll, you need facts to back up your claims, not the fantasies of your crack high.

      • Anne 3.1.2

        When labour’s own pollsters have them dropping to 26% …

        Winston is a very colourful character in New Zealand politics and he's got some principles too.

        "But he is a blowhard and this is blowhard politics.

        "In the end this election isn't going to be fought on the basis of swinging dicks it is going to be fought on the basis of what party has demonstrated that they are listening to the real concerns of New Zealanders.

        Little said the UMR poll was not commissioned by Labour and had not been leaked from within the party.

        Good one Andrew.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11891404

        Nice to see the latest RM poll has Lab/Greens ahead of National.

        • In Vino 3.1.2.1

          Surely if the poll was not commissioned by Labour, Gower must be made to retract? He presented it as Labour’s own commissioned poll that had been leaked. Another $1.000-bottle-of-wine-style lie?

          • Anne 3.1.2.1.1

            Another $1,000-bottle-of-wine-style lie?

            In a nutshell yes.

            Today I listened to RNZ’s political spot with Matthew Hooton and Stephen Mills.

            Take a deep breath and listen to it. Half of it was devoted to matters around the UMR poll. Not one mention of the Roy Morgan poll that came out on the same day and which put Labour and Greens ahead of National. Hooton’s rant against Andrew Little in particular has to be heard to be believed. His contributions were the worst display of lies, deceit and outright vindictiveness I have ever heard from him and given his track record that is saying something.

            http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201851337/politics-with-matthew-hooton-and-stephen-mills

            Dirty RW Politics is once again on full throttle.

            • marty mars 3.1.2.1.1.1

              he sounded like alex jones to me – he certainly needed a lie down after his rantwhichcouldnotbestopped

            • Karen 3.1.2.1.1.2

              I suggest you send an email to Nine to Noon complaining about Hooton.

              They shouldn’t have PR shills as political commentators anyway, and his behaviour is turning listeners off. It is also time they replaced Mike Williams with someone from the left not the centre.

              • Anne

                They have Karen. Stephen Mills has been the main left of centre commentator since early this year. Mike Williams occasionally fronts up but not very often.

          • james 3.1.2.1.2

            Perhaps you should retract.

            it says “Newshub has been leaked poll results from the company that does Labour’s internal polling which show it is in big trouble, two-and-a-half months out from the election.”

            So not a lie.

            • In Vino 3.1.2.1.2.1

              But a clear implication. Does URM also work for NZ1st? Was it actually leaked by NZ1st? Once all this is clarified, it should be publicised so that we can all see what kind of spin Gower was applying.

  4. gsays 4

    The other heartening thing about the greens welfare announcements, from an occasional green voter, is a refocusing on social justice issues.
    I felt they had consciously gone away from them the last couple of election cycles.

  5. Ed 5

    Will Bill English pay his money back for double dipping?

    • BM 5.1

      What double dipping?

      • T 5.1.1

        Bill English defends taxpayer cash for house
        By VERNON SMALL13:23, Aug 06 2009
        Finance Minister Bill English says he appreciates the support he gets from taxpayers, which saw him claim nearly $1000 a week to live in his family house in Wellington.
        Mr English today defended the payments, saying it was within the rules and was the same as other ministers were getting. He had made the best option for his family and the cheapest for taxpayers.

        The English’s family trust owns the $1.2 million house in Karori.

        Mr English, the MP for Clutha-Southland, is entitled as an out-of-Wellington minister to either a crown-owned house or an accommodation allowance.

        He has six children and his wife works as a GP in Wellington

        He said Prime Minister John Key had capped the accommodation rate at $700 a week for rent, which was previously unlimited.

        Other costs are also covered – including power and cleaning – which saw Mr English claim more than $23,000 for living in the house for the six months to June 30. As deputy prime minister he earns $276,700 a year.

        He said most people thought politicians were paid too much, their cars were too big and their travel costs too extravagant.

        “I focused on making sure my family is together and it has some stability,” he said. Caving in to pressure, Bill English has paid back $32,000.

        http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2711246/Bill-English-defends-taxpayer-cash-for-house

    • james 5.2

      Yes.

      In fact he did. And the ‘double dipping’ was done under advise from ministerial services.

      Somewhat different from someone who commited fraud and never paid it back even knowing it was wrong.

      • And the ‘double dipping’ was done under advise from ministerial services.

        [citation needed]

        Of course, the moral position was that he wasn’t an “out-of-Wellington minister” and so actually didn’t have a right to claim it. And not even sure it was legal as it was obvious that he was living in Wellington and not Dipton.

      • Psycho Milt 5.2.2

        Somewhat different from someone who commited fraud and never paid it back even knowing it was wrong.

        Oh, how different it is indeed! Mr English could quite legally fleece the taxpayers for tens of thousands of dollars in having them pay him to live in his own house, because the wealthy make rules that suit the wealthy. Turei, on the other hand, couldn’t legally ensure her benefit covered enough to feed her kid, because the wealthy don’t make rules that suit the poor. The view a person takes of that difference depends on how chuffed they are about having the rules written for the already-wealthy, I guess – hence all the right-wing outrage about Turei finding ways to feed her kid while excusing English’s greed.

  6. billmurray 6

    I believe that both policy statements from the Greens and New Zealand First were ‘ smash and grab ‘ on Labours support base.
    They both sense weakness in Labour and both have entered a ‘no holds barred’ attacks through policies on Labour’s polling.
    I sense that both of them see Labour as a sitting duck.
    There are no signs that Labours traction with the voters is improving.
    The MoU has become a mill stone around Labours neck.
    Andrew Little did have a response to Winnie yesterday but his response was weak and got little press.
    Labour needs to start big-time dumping on the Greens to stop the Greens from claiming top spot in the MoU.
    Labour seems to be treading water in a large pond.
    The waves are getting bigger and the water is getting colder.

    • Gabby 6.1

      Do you think they’ve reached the conclusion that labour only serves to keep the gnats in government.

    • Yarrr bill OR labour could continue to show the gnats as lying, conniving, thick, uncaring with no ideas other than there proven failed ones.

      • billmurray 6.2.1

        marty mars 9.53,
        of course they need to do what you say, but they do not do it very well because they want to be National lite themselves.
        Labour will never get poll traction whilst the NZ First and Green parties make the headlines by sideway attacks on them.

    • It makes no difference if Labour loses votes to the Green Party – the result would just be a slightly different make-up of MPs in a Labour/Green government.

      It makes a big different if Labour loses votes to NZ First though, because those votes then go to keeping National in power. Anyone on the left who participates in that ought to be ashamed of themselves (Martyn Bradbury I’m looking at you here).

  7. Adrian 7

    Just curious, besides Winnie, master that he is, and Shane the blow-in ( hard ? ), can anyone name anyone else in NZ 1.
    That’s the Achilles heal.

    • garibaldi 7.1

      Aw c’mon Adrian we all know he has the ” sunglasses and expensive underpants” squad ready to respond to his every whim. Just like last time NZ fell for this double speaking charlatan.

      • Adrian 7.1.1

        Agreed Garibaldi, but he is amusing and a superb politician, if the definition is the ability to bullshit from a position of weakness. The Maori seats ploy is aimed at Tory votes and Metiera really had to respond and good on her. It’s going to be a fun show.
        As I said Winnie’s weakness is encapsulated in a great Texas saying, ” All hat and no cattle “.

  8. AsleepWhileWalking 8

    Warm Fuzzy for the day…Human chain saves entire family from drowning (Panama)

    http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/20170710/amazing-human-chain-formed-to-rescue-drowning-family-in-pcb

  9. North 9

    Oh poor (lawyer for Trump Snr) Mr Sekulow. Could you get ‘swampier’ ? A private jet funded from a pot benefitted by donations from trailer park dwellers. Who’ve just lost jobs to Princess Ivanka’s ‘other’ employees/slaves in her Bangladeshi, Ethiopian, Somalian operations. “Dig deep for God folks !”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/27/trump-lawyer-jay-sekulow-donations

  10. garibaldi 10

    Matthew Hooton yet again proving he is a moron on 9 to noon. He is again suggesting the Greens should keep their options of a coalition with National open.
    What is wrong with these people pushing this line? It would be like Corbyn going into coalition with May. Not going to happen.
    Oh great ,he’s now calling us communists. Wow, the right really is panicking.

    • weka 10.1

      He’s run out of spin.

    • bearded git 10.2

      agreed …..can’t believe mills didn’t mention the roy morgan poll.

      • In Vino 10.2.1

        At first Hooten annoyed me as usual – but soon I felt something new. He sounded bilious.
        By the time he had finished spitting it all out, I had the feeling that he would be making no new conversions today. Some comfort for the fact that he gets so much air time.

        • Johan 10.2.1.1

          John Banks and Rodney Hide are supporters of the same political party as Hooten, and for some reason, they seem to have found, radio time an easy forum to express their political agenda.
          Hooten works for a public relations firm, and one would think he would make himself more appealing to the listener.

          • Gabby 10.2.1.1.1

            He seemed to be offering the Greens terms on behalf of Bingles. Is he a Bingles spokesperson now?

    • He is again suggesting the Greens should keep their options of a coalition with National open.

      Who is that even aimed at? There can’t be many Green supporters who’d like to see it in a coalition with National, nor many Nat supporters who’d like a deal with the Greens. I presume it’s just a lame attempt to wedge the Labour/Green MoU.

      • weka 10.3.1

        Desperate I think.

        Just saw someone on twitter saying they’re switching their vote from National to the Greens because of the poverty gap. That’s gold for the left and another good reason to not even consider supporting a National govt. Shifting the Overton Window.

  11. greywarshark 11

    Special Economic Zones
    Definition
    The operating definition of a SEZ is determined individually by each country. According to the World Bank in 2008, the modern day special economic zone typically includes a “geographically delimited area, usually physically secured (fenced-in);
    single management/administration;
    eligibility for benefits based upon physical location within the zone;
    separate customs area (duty-free benefits) and streamlined procedures.
    “special economic zone are those industrial zone which have been set up by government of India to attract foreign companies to invest in the country.[6]

    History
    Free zones and Entrepôts have been used for centuries to guarantee free storage and exchange along trade routes.[citation needed]

    Modern SEZs appeared from late 1950s in industrial countries. The first was in Shannon Airport in Clare, Ireland.[7] From the 1970s onward, zones providing labor-intensive manufacturing have been established, starting in Latin America and East Asia. The first in China following the opening of China in 1979 by Deng Xiaoping was the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone, which encouraged foreign investment and simultaneously accelerated industrialization in this region. These zones attracted investment from multinational corporations.[1]
    A recent trend has been for African countries to set up SEZs in partnership with China.[2]

    Similar to what has happened in Cuba, with one small piece carved off from the country, and held by a country hostile to them to use for their own purposes which would be anathema I think to Cuban political views.

    Guantanamo Bay Naval Base (Spanish: Base Naval de la Bahía de Guantánamo), officially known as Naval Station Guantanamo Bay or NSGB, (also called GTMO because of the airfield designation code or Gitmo because of the common pronunciation of this code by the U.S. military[1]) is a United States military base located on 45 square miles (120 km2) of land and water at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, which the U.S. leased for use as a coaling and naval station in 1903 for $2,000 in gold per year until 1934, when the payment was set to match the value in gold in dollars;[2] in 1974, the yearly lease was set to $4,085.[3] The base is on the shore of Guantánamo Bay at the southeastern end of Cuba. It is the oldest overseas U.S. Naval Base.[4]

    Since the Cuban Revolution of 1959, the Cuban government has consistently protested against the U.S. presence on Cuban soil and called it illegal under international law, alleging that the base was imposed on Cuba by force. At the United Nations Human Rights Council in 2013, Cuba’s Foreign Minister demanded the U.S. return the base and the “usurped territory”, which the Cuban government considers to be occupied since the U.S. invasion of Cuba during the Spanish–American War in 1898.[5][6][7][8][9]

    Since 2002, the naval base has contained a military prison, the Guantanamo Bay detention camp, for unlawful combatants captured in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places during the War on Terror.[10] Cases of torture of prisoners,[11] and their alleged denial of protection under the Geneva Conventions, have been condemned internationally.[12][13]

    Once NZ ceded areas of the country for Special Economic Zones we would probably never regain autonomy over them. It would be a piecemeal takeover of the country which would expand taking in further desirable areas.

    But the NZ Initiative wants us to join this auspicious list of 30 needy counries, I guess we match that description after decades of asset and job stripping:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_special_economic_zones

  12. adam 12

    I’d been told it was someone from the Broadchurch cast. Not who I expected, but very happy.

    The 13th Doctor.

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/jul/16/doctor-who-jodie-whittaker-announced-13th-doctor?CMP=fb_gu

    • weka 12.1

      I’m happy too and probably going to start watching again.

      • adam 12.1.1

        Me too, I’ve been watching is spits and spurts. Loved Capaldi in all his previous work, but as the Dr, mmmm decidedly average. Could have been the writing though, some of the stories were naf.

  13. Philj 13

    Shocking story on Morning Report http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201851293
    about machinery importers having to self police to ensure that dirty second hand machinery doesn’t create bio security disasters. A pathetic fine of $3,000 in a recent case of importing a ‘new’ combine harvester that was dirty and obviously not new. Another major accident just waiting…

  14. Ric 14

    I think this blog would be better if there was an upper limit on the number of times any 1 individual is allowed to comment in any 1 day. There could be a list of exceptions for people that have shown that they make useful comments.
    Alternatively could we have a weekly vote for the worst commentator of the week with the prize of that person being banned for 7 days.
    Some people just don’t make any effort to contributepositevely to the discusssion

    [lprent: Nope. Read the about and the policy. You will find that this isn’t a democracy of commenters, it is a working cooperative of the people who author posts and keep the site running. But it also has a trustee board of a couple of hardcore old veterans who have seen just about every dumbarse idea tried on political movements and the net. So the policy has been especially written to ensure that any bully behaviour can only be done by the people who operate the site. Ultimately you will find that is likely to be me – and I have short sharp and usually shocking techniques to pruning fools. ]

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