Open mike 17/09/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:24 am, September 17th, 2014 - 237 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

237 comments on “Open mike 17/09/2014”

  1. karol 1

    NSA tipped Key off in advance of Greenwald’s revelations about the GCSB. Andrea Vance reports:

    Ferguson’s admission backs up Snowden’s evidence about XKeyscore – but Greenwald argued Key cannot confirm it because he promised to resign in the event the GCSB was found to be carrying out mass surveillance.

    ‘‘The reason that John Key won’t admit what Mr Ferguson himself admitted … is because XKeyscore by its nature is a system of mass surveillance,’’ he said.

    Greenwald also said he believed the NSA tipped off the National-led Government about what was coming. The Pulitzer Prize-winning writer took his information to the US spy agency on Sunday.

    Following this, Key admitted the GCSB had proposed a programme of mass surveillance, which he canned in March 2013.

    ‘‘He clearly learned about the documents that we intended to publish that show that this had gone beyond the proposal stage and was partially implemented,’’ Greenwald said.

    • Rich 1.1

      Well how did Greenwald ‘take’ his information to the US spy agency on Sunday?

      Was he not here at the time?

      • karol 1.1.1

        In the digital age “taking it to” can mean contact via email, txt, phone, etc. Also, it could just have easily been “taken there” by people in other parts of the world working with Greenwald – Intercept people/editors/lawyers, etc.

    • Tracey 1.2

      I don’t know if thishas been discussed already but the Herald is reporting that

      “Questions from the Herald saw a spokeswoman for the Prime Minister saying the new GCSB law passed last year had nothing to do with “Initiative 7418″, the New Zealand name for Project Speargun.”

      Can someone direct me to the public statement that connects 7418 to “Project Speargun”, other than this one?

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1

        saying the new GCSB law passed last year had nothing to do with “Initiative 7418″, the New Zealand name for Project Speargun.”

        More lies from the PM’s office/PM.

    • Granted 1.3

      He never won a Pulitzer Prize.

      Please show a link to him on doing this.

      The newspaper he worked for did though.

      He just regurgitated stolen information

      Same ilk as Hager

      Of course in the public interest.

      Lets see if the public are interested on Saturday.

    • Tracey 1.4

      April 2012

      noted the two options: 11.1

      Option I: extends NCSC protection to the core. public-sector, critical national infrastructure and organisations of national significance, provides an automated investigation capability and an “effects” defence option;

      11.2 Option 2 (includes Option I above), and the development of a Detailed Business case, the high-speed detection and defence capabilities to protect government and industry and potentially extends a degree of protection to allNew Zealanders to be developed in consultation with unD and the National Cyber Policy Office onCo);

      12 noted that the implementation of Option 2 is preferred, .but requires significant
      Scoping and consultation in order to identify…z

      . 13 agreed to extend the scope of the NCSC to cover central government, critical national infrastructure operators and specified organisations of national significance;

      14 agreed to proceed with Option I in paragraph 11.1 above ;

      Present: in HonJohn Key Hon Bill English (Chair) HDiiJudith Collins HDn Tony Ryall Hon David Carter Hon Panla Bennett Hon Craig EOSs Hon John Banks Distribution: Cabinet Conimittee

      2 Sept 2013

      noted that in 2012… directsd the GCSB to develop a detailed business case for implementation of Option 2 in 2013

      ..rescinded thle decision referred to in patagraph I above on the development of a detailed business case for Option 2; …..

      Karol

      When Key says he told them to stop in March 2013, do you know what he is referring to, cos this suggests he didnt rescind option 2 until September 2013? The gscb bill was passed in August 2013.

      It also means that the gcsb had been told to prepare a business case on option 2 in 2013. Key seems to be saying today that by September 2013, when they were told to stop, they had produced nothing?

      • Tracey 1.4.1

        “.Key has said he canned a plan for mass surveillance in March 2013 because it was too intrusive. ”

        His own documents show the decision for a business plan for option 2 was rescinded in September 2013.

        Option two is what he must be relying on as being “project spearhead”, otherwise those documents do his claim no good.

        So, given option 2 wasnt rescinded until September 2013, the next question is

        If he canned the plan for mass surveillance in March 2013… What were the documents he released referring to?

  2. Local Kiwi 2

    When is someone in power going to impeach Key and his office for continuing to lie about his role as head of security and intelligence and his seedy record of widespread NZ intelligence harvesting & vague lack of details and TPPA agreements?

    This is another classic Nixon affair, where Nixon at least defended himself by continually kept saying “I have never lied” this sad sack of a man hides behind his power of his office and the MSM does nothing.

    • tc 2.1

      MSM are a growing part of the problem don’t expect them to step up as they are owned.

      • Paul 2.1.1

        MSM the third ‘track’ of Dirty Politics.
        Social media may become ( as it has in Scotland) the way to make the MSM irrelevant.

        • phillip ure 2.1.1.1

          the latest jaw-dropping example was key on tvone breakfast..(a few mins ago..)

          ..interviewed by the female co-compere..

          ..she got in a couple of fringe-flicks..and lotsa giggles..and blushes..

          (i half-expected her to rip her bodice open..and to offer herself up to key..)

          ..and it should be short-listed for softest-interview-of-the-year award..

          • Local Kiwi 2.1.1.1.1

            10000% Philip, shocking sop of host- Journo she Ali Pugh rates worst so far, shame on her.

          • vto 2.1.1.1.2

            Yep Pugh was useless.

            Here was Key, in defence of the reason he hadn’t told us they were planning and partly implementing mass collection of data saying … “blah blah blah governments look at all sorts of stuff all the time and I don’t think its feasible for a govt to explain everything it is considering and looking at to the public- I mean that just doesn’t make sense I reckon” …

            … useless Pugh then completely and utterly missed the obvious … “but this wasn’t just some everyday mundane matter was it Prime Minister, there was a review and implementation of new spy legislation so that information that you withheld was entirely relevant and intensely in the public interest. Wasn’t it Prime Minister.?”

            useless Pugh just went “yep”

            These useless interviewers actually make things worse. They allow the news to become distorted away from the truth.

            useless

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.2.1

              Media repeaters, reinforcers and spokespeople for John Key

              • adam

                I wonder if the electoral commissioner will look into all the aggrandisement stories national are getting from the private media outlets?

                Nah silly me, electoral commission just likes banning songs.

                A question on Stuff

                Should the Planet Key song be allowed, especially so close to the election?

                just shy of 60% said – Yes, it’s free speech and artistic expression

                only 20% wanted it banned.

                With almost 12% just not caring.

                Mmmmmmmmmm – out of touch, fixing an election, writing the rules to suit one side over another?

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2

          Social media may become ( as it has in Scotland) the way to make the MSM irrelevant.

          We would still need investigative journalists. Probably ones that are funded by government rather than employed by media companies. They’d be fully independent and would report through the internet and broadcast.

          • TheContrarian 2.1.1.2.1

            “Probably ones that are funded by government rather than employed by media companies.”

            I think that would be just as problematic as being funded by private media organisations.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2.1.1

              Just so long as the government doesn’t have any say about what the journalists investigate or publish and there’s no advertising involved it shouldn’t be.

              And, yes, private corporations do have a say in what journalists investigate and publish as admitted by Rupert Murdock.

              • TheContrarian

                No one is denying private companies manipulate the news.

                And having the government fund journalists is a terrible idea. There would be immense pressure to give good reporting on the government of the day. If you think otherwise you are terribly naive

                • Hi TheContrarian,

                  I’d have to say that the reporting of Brent Edwards on (publicly funded) RNZ comes as close to objective in the MSM as anyone I’ve heard (or read).

                  He always lays out the logic of his analysis clearly and, if anything, is more likely to be critical of the current government, when warranted, than just about any MSM journalist from a private media outlet.

                  I take your point about purse strings but it’s perfectly possible to keep publicly funded institutions independent of the government of the day.

                  If it weren’t possible it would make you wonder why we trust publicly appointed judiciary in NZ. Perhaps there should be judges appointed by private interests to prevent government interference or pressure over their decisions?

                • Draco T Bastard

                  And having the government fund journalists is a terrible idea.

                  No it’s not. In fact, it’s the only logical solution for journalism due to the fact that the corporations manipulate the news for their own ends.

                  There would be immense pressure to give good reporting on the government of the day.

                  Pressure that the journalists could then write about because the top down dictatorial control that we have now in the MSM and previously in NZBC just wouldn’t be there (Yes, I’m quite aware of how our broadcasting used to be manipulated by the government). I’m sure that real time reporting of such manipulation would result in the said government collapsing.

                  If you think otherwise you are terribly naive

                  Nope.

                  Oh, and I’m pretty sure that I’ve have seen people say that the private corporations don’t manipulate the news. Usually Actoid types exclaiming that privatisation and competition fixes everything.

                  • TheContrarian

                    You have a terrible naive view of the state as a necessarily benevolent entity, Draco.

                    How about if the National Government were publicly funding journalists? What do you think the outcome would be?

                    • McFlock

                      hosking? 🙂

                      But although I see your point, a government entity with ringfenced funding and statutory independence will always be less biased than an entity funded by corporate dollars and.or advertising revenue.

                      Neither will be perfect, but (even with hosking) tvnz is still miles better than fox news.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      What do you think the outcome would be?

                      If we’ve set up the funding right the same as if a Labour or Greens or Mana government were in place as the government wouldn’t be able to do anything to pressure the journalists without it becoming public knowledge.

                      All you really show here is your stupidity as you exclaim that something that obviously can be done can’t be done.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      When is someone in power going to impeach Key and his office for continuing to lie about his role as head of security and intelligence and his seedy record of widespread NZ intelligence harvesting & vague lack of details and TPPA agreements?

      See, this is why we need the power of recall. So that protecting our democracy isn’t left solely in the hands of those that would corrupt it.

    • Sans Cle 2.3

      John Key on TV1 this morning (clip heard on RadioNZ newsclip with Guyon Espinor)
      In context of not disclosing work on the business case, WHILE debate raged in Parliament on the GCSB Bill.

      JK: “are we really saying the new standard now is every time I consider something, and ask a department to look at something, and then ultimately rest on this, we would have a public discussion about this? (this) is really a bit silly”

      At around 30 seconds in
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20149924/it-specialist-discusses-nsa-request-to-have-wellington-office

      • Tracey 2.3.1

        Key, joyce, banks and a couple of others authorised a business case into option 2 on or about 2012.

        In December 2013 the same group rescinded that decision…

        Key is telling us not a single document was produced by the GCSB between those times. I dont believe that.

  3. Rich 3

    I think there’s more to one of the issues raised over on the Flashback story, so I’m going to put it here to give it some air to breathe.

    7 years ago on the Standard this was asked;

    National on free speech

    Bryce Edwards 10
    15 October 2007 at 1:03 pm

    “Who are Francis Till, Jason Ede, Rhiannon White?

    It looks like they work for National MPs in Parliament. But shouldn’t this be a extra-parliamentary issues for the Party HQ?”

    I’m going to ignore Jason Ede for the moment but the other two are;

    Francis Till

    https://web.archive.org/web/20050212173229/http://till.co.nz/tillnet
    The working journal of Francis Till,
    an American writer freelancing
    in New Zealand and web editor of
    the National Business Review

    http://nz.linkedin.com/pub/francis-till/0/713/4aa
    Interesting list on his “Viewers of this profile also viewed…”

    Rhiannon White (linked from Francis Till’s linkedIN page)

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rhiannon-white/11/2a1/542?trk=pub-pbmap

    Director, Product Management (Advertising), Shazam Entertainment Ltd
    Menlo Park, California (San Francisco Bay Area) Online Media

    The two most obvious questions would be when did Till come into the country (i.e. did he come here at the same time as Key) and why does there seem to be seamless career path from NZ National Party propagandising to the Californian Entertainment industry.

    “Shazam Entertainment Limited is a media engagement company that connects people to the media through their mobile devices. The company offers Shazam, an application that connects people to the music, TV shows, and brands they love, as well as enables them to discover, explore, buy, and share; and allows them to share their discoveries on Facebook, Twitter, Whatsapp, Pinterest, and Google+”

  4. karol 4

    Andrea Vance has a second story out today, based on Greenwald interview:

    Greenwald exposes the way Key tried to mislead with the release of the CORTEX documents.

    What was implemented in its place was Cortex, a ‘‘bespoke’’ service offered to certain firms and government departments.

    Key has said this allows the GCSB to monitor only online communications into and out those organisations, and does not involve wholesale interception of the Southern Cross cable. This is the undersea link that carries all New Zealand’s internet traffic.
    [..]
    ‘‘There is no separate cable that carries communications only for certain parties in New Zealand.

    ‘‘Even if you believe the prime minister that this programme is limited – as he wants to claim it is – the only way that you could make any progress at all in guarding against cyber attacks or detecting malware is if you were monitoring vast amounts of traffic, which is a form of mass surveillance by definition.’’
    […]
    Greenwald points to Key’s suggestion, at the weekend, that the ‘‘bespoke’’ system involved new technology.

    However, the documents Key declassified on Monday night say that under Cortex the GCSB was not proposing to ‘‘procure or develop bespoke systems’’ and say ‘‘all of the technology has been in use for some time.’’

    Greenwald knows how to ask the right questions and just doesn’t uncritically accept every word out of Key’s slippery, slurry mouth.

    • Tracey 4.1

      Later today I will quote Option 1 here in full because it begun implementation in 2012 and was not rescinded the way Option 2 was.

      Option one talks about the “automated investigative capacity”

      Then there is Key deciding that the documents werent so secret anyway, not when his “reputation” was at stake… which means he could have released them during the GCSB Bill debate, but didn’t…

      “It also emerged yesterday the documents which Mr Key said he made public to protect his reputation threatened massive damage to New Zealand’s wellbeing if made public without permission, going by the GCSB’s own threat estimates.

      The four documents were previously marked at the “Secret” level of classification. The GCSB guide to security classifications says the “compromise” of “Secret” information could “damage the security, defence or international relations of New Zealand and/or friendly governments”.

      Mr Key’s office refused to explain the process for making the documents public but said the Prime Minister wasn’t concerned about danger arising from their losing “secret” classification”

    • Rosie 4.2

      “Greenwald knows how to ask the right questions and just doesn’t uncritically accept every word out of Key’s slippery, slurry mouth”.

      It’s been a real treat having him here in NZ, he is breath of fresh air and oasis of rational questioning and reporting. I hope our “journalists” are paying attention to what a real journalist looks and sounds like.

  5. On 9 November 2012 an “unauthorised and un-notified software change” to the “to the wavelength switching platform” was made on the Sydney side of the Southern cross cable. It caused a “catastrophic” internet outage. Was this when the software was implemented needed to spy on all of us?

    • Once Was Tim 5.1

      +1 @T
      This is but one of the reasons I find Ferguson’s claims, and the CEO of Southern Cross Cable just a little hollow. (I.e. the need for ‘deep sea divers’; and “I’d know about it”, etc.). I can’t remember when, but I do recall a contractor accidently ‘damaging’ the cable north of Auckland in the past. Elsewhere I commented on WDM (wavelength division multiplexing), thinking that with refinement some sort of like-technology (and with NSA’s investment in R&D etc.) a passive tap is not beyond the realms of possibility. Souther Cross also claim the cable is configured in a ‘self-healing’ configuration, so that minor interruptions (perhaps except at a couple of key points) can go unnoticed as long as customers are unaffected.
      The claims by both Ferguson and the CEO by their nature mean (if they’re genuine in there being ‘NO tapping’) assume they know what goes on by ALL their staff 24/7; or that they’re also being disingenuous and complicit. Aside from all that, tapping at router level …. the fact that elsewhere in the world it’s already acknowledged …. the coincidences of various visitors to the country …. the recent claim by Peters that an NSA presence in Auckland is certain and that he knows the address …. the fact that its in both Ferguson and the CEO’s interests to make such statements (in Ferguson’s case – his legacy; in the CEO’s – for business reasons) ….
      In short – hollow and deceitful – but then I guess they’re ‘protecting’ us aren’t they ??

      • travellerev 5.1.1

        To be fair to Ferguson, he stepped away from his job as GCSB director in 2011 and this happened in November 2012. I always suspected a bust up between him and John Key about the legality of spying on New Zealanders and Dotcom that made him step down before that happened. When that happened he was blamed but in fact it was Hugh Wolfensohn, who was the acting director, who authorized the illegal spying.

  6. North 6

    Increasingly Key’s feet have the appearance of clay. Increasingly the personal demeanour is anything but relaxed. Increasingly the emperor has no clothes. Resort to “loser” and “rather large butt” is pretty pathetic really. True, worshippers at The Temple of TheGodKey won’t be phased. Who cares ? Reflecting their own realities they’re in thrall to “selfie” in its fuller definition and it’s tribal.

    Of greater importance is the evergrowing sense across the nation at large that here’s a prevaricating wide boy who can’t be trusted. Check out the journalist’s robust “Why not ?” in the clip below. The manufactured gloss is tarnishing daily. ‘Challenege’ is in the air. That’s what matters electorally.

    If Saturday doesn’t see sufficient ‘YawnKey’ to scotch the specious royal honorific for strutting in Hawaii…….imagine the howls of derision when that does occur. Poor Madge. Expect she’s not gonna see it as a decent quid pro quo for Scotland……

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11325926

    • Tigger 6.1

      Watch Key’s mouth. His eyes don’t dart as much when he lies now, clearly been trained, but his mouth is doing lots of odd stuff.

  7. mike 7

    What is it you are all so desperately trying to hide that you are prepared to sacrifice NZ’s security for? The current biggest security threat to NZ is already in Australia and maybe here, but you all want to ignore that & knobble our security service?

    The Left will be the first to cry “why didn’t the government do something to protect us” if we are subject to an act of terror in NZ.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1

      Sorry to burst your fearmonger bubble: the people who’ve been telling you it’s all about terrorism, in private, among themselves, they discuss economic espionage and intellectual property.

      They don’t give a toss if you get beheaded so long as they get paid.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2

      We have already been subjected to a real act of terror (as opposed to just the government trying to terrify us) in New Zealand which the GCSB did nothing to protect us from.

    • Molly 7.3

      What makes NZ more likely to be a location for an act of terror?

      – Primarily acting as a stooge for the US which has committed long and sustained acts of terror against sovereign states for immoral and illegitimate reasons,
      – spying on other sovereign states that we are not in conflict with and using our location and access to allow others to do so;
      – sending our defence forces in at the request of the US despite there being no credible intelligence that indicates this approach will improve the living conditions of those countrymen or women. In fact, historical evidence shows that it usually results with deterioration of living conditions and increases the likelihood of extremist groups taking power;
      – using intelligence systems to spy on and target those who disagree with the government of the time, and use intimidation techniques to get them to change behaviours – even if they are legitimate and peaceful. When you remove the right to disagree by legitimate and peaceful means, you increase the likelihood that desperation will result in ramping up actions.

      In essence, failing to act like a sovereign state that upholds values such as human rights for all, and avoidance of unnecessary or ineffective conflict – is what is going to make us vulnerable to acts of terrorism.

    • adam 7.4

      Mike, why are you promoting thugs and criminals to the role of terrorist? As they are thugs and criminals should not good old fashioned police work sort out the problem, where is the money for that solution? But no, lets go for fear, mixed with just a little xenophobia, and the desire to keep an addiction to snooping into people’s lives so we can spy. Life is not a James Bond novel – the cold war is over, criminals will say any old shit to make themselves look good. FFS grow up – this is about your rights and your freedoms – I thought the right wing supported those ideas.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.5

      1. If we remain neutral and ethical we won’t be subject to acts of terror
      2. John Key’s and National’s kowtowing to what the US wants is increasing the chance of being subjected to acts of terror and other acts of retaliation from other states
      3. Mass surveillance doesn’t actually increase the chances that the police will intercept terrorists. It does mean that the government can pick up on people who disagree with them though which I’m sure you’re more than happy with (while the government is National).

    • Tracey 7.6

      Please post your full name, address occupation and phone number. Then i will answer your question.

      [lprent: No pestering the trolls other commenters to out themselves. It is against house rules. ]

  8. peters is just confirming on tv3 that the americans have a spooking-base in auckland..

    ..he knows the address..

    ..and he calls greenwald/snowden ‘totally credible’..

    ..and that key is lying..

    ..(he is 9.1% for preferred prime minister in reid research poll out this morn..three points behind cunnliffe..bloody hell.!..)

    • lurgee 8.1

      peters is just confirming on tv3 that the americans have a spooking-base in auckland..

      ..he knows the address..

      Ah, Winston, forever confused by the difference between what he wants to know, what he thinks he knows, and what he really knows …

      Still, this story is bubbling along nicely.

      • phillip ure 8.1.1

        he says he knows this from his time in government..

        ..and that is how he is so certain that key also knows all about it..

        ..and so once again..is lying to the people of nz..

        • weka 8.1.1.1

          someone should keep a list of the claims that Peters makes, and how many of them pan out in the way he implies

        • Bob 8.1.1.2

          Phillip, he also said he knows the address because he used to ‘oversee them as Deputy Prime Minister’, what is he doing overseeing the NSA? He is old and confused.

      • Local Kiwi 8.1.2

        Lurgee,
        Funny your lack-shitless bullshit leader Lie-key has changed his position on the spooking-base/ surveillance issue daily.
        Key even forgot to tell us Kiwis he attends the shadow ops global Nazi founded Bilderberg group with a one world Government agenda controlled by them also?

        Who did you say was confused?

        • rich 8.1.2.1

          I had no idea the right wing concept of a one world government with Bilderberg associated would be so popular with someone commenting on a Labour (so kind of left) blog in New Zealand. Am I missing something?

          [lprent: Yes, you are about to start missing writing on our site after maligning it.

          Banned 8 weeks for stupidity. Read the about and the policy. I really can’t be bothered indulging lazy fools who don’t read the house rules. ]

          • Pasupial 8.1.2.1.1

            lprent

            It seems that you may be in error about rich maligning the site, when all he called it was; “a Labour (so kind of left) blog in New Zealand”.

            Note that he did not say a “Labour Party blog”, and the about you referred him to states; “it’d be fair to say that all of us share a commitment to the values and principles that underpin the broad labour movement” (under; “What’s your political ‘angle’?”, with similar elsewhere). Plus the site does proclaim itself; “The New Zealand voice of the labour movement”, in the hometab.

            When I saw this earlier, I thought that the maligning must have occurred in a different comment, but have not been able to see anything objectionable thus far.

            [lprent: Do I care? It isn’t a “Labour” blog. It has always been a “labour movement” blog which is and always has been a hell of a lot larger than a single political party.

            If someone is too stupid to read the about then I will educate them the hard way. That is because invariably people that open their mouths on a blog and presume to know what it is are arrogant fuckwits who really need to understand the consequences of not investigating the social media that they are using. It is really bad manners.

            My experience has been that the only reason that people say variations on that theme is because they then proceed either smear the Labour party with our sins or try to smear us. Either way I’ll give them bans of anything from a few days to a year or two the first time I see it – depends on how cranky I feel. They tend to get a bit more cautious at the next site. For some reason this semi-arbitrary sentencing behaviour never seems to constrain the growth of people commenting or the numbers of comments that they leave. I suspect that it enhances it.

            I view it as a requirement to running a blog – educating the pig-ignorant ]

            • McFlock 8.1.2.1.1.1

              The crux seems to be in the capitalisation – lower denoting a broad and imprecise description, upper denoting a specific entity’s name…

            • greywarbler 8.1.2.1.1.2

              @ Pasupial
              It seems to me to be about the meaning that relates to a word having either a capital or a lower case start. The difference between Labour (which can be used as a single word referring to the Labour Party) which these days is full of nice middle class people on good incomes, with a few lower-income asperashunal ones sprinkled on the top like tasty, poppy seeds,
              and, labour which stands for the generalised working class often unskilled, low skilled, semi-skilled and with wages that generally match. So big difference between Labour and labour. Capisce?

              I would have thought that a thoughtful person like yourself would have picked that up. Rich was just suffering from being a new-ish guy on the site, and put his foot in it. There is quite a lot of deliberate misinformation about the site and sometimes one more is the last straw with our sysop.

              • Pasupial

                greywarbler

                Now that it’s pointed out, I can see the difference between the two. Though it didn’t strike me on first reading, and since I just C&Pd the offending portion I missed it when I made my comment as well.

                I guess rich was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with that one. Maybe the attempted deflections from the Dirty Politics crew (with their; TS is just the same as WO, nonsense) have put our fine sysop a bit on edge.

                • greywarbler

                  @ Pasupial 5.17
                  Yes he is a fine sysop, and does get a bit testy when too many oddities mount up in the day. I think you are right about all.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.1.2

            I really can’t be bothered indulging lazy fools who don’t read the house rules.

            * Wonders if I should go off and read them, nah, too lazy* 😈

            • lprent 8.1.2.1.2.1

              Mostly they just say “don’t be a fool on our site and waste our time dealing with it”.

              You’re just argumentative 😈

    • 😆 funny how things can turn eh?

  9. Rodel 9

    I want to hear about the policies of all parties in the few days before election day and see and hear the candidates .

    Sick of the media’s obsession with poor maligned Key, mass surveillance, Kimdottycom, CGSB etc ad-nauseum.

    Key has high profile and all others have low profile. Couldn’t have stage managed it better myself.

    • CrashCart 9.1

      Have you got a postage stamp? If so key should be able to list all of Nationals policies on it for you.

      Have to agree in large with you. The one major down fall of everything that is happening is that Policy gets drowned out. As much as I think the Dirty Polotics, GCSB information is important and should rightfully influence voters, in the end people need to know policy to make an informed decision as to who to vote for.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1

        To be honest, I actually think that knowing a political party is honest or not is more important than their policies.

        • McFlock 9.1.1.1

          true. If they might be lying, then their policies are worthless.

          • CrashCart 9.1.1.1.1

            Actually the first part was to point out National’s policy is almost non existant. I thought that was pretty clear.

            Unfortunately because of all the coverage of the admitidly important revelations I mentioned there has been very little coverage of the poilicies from other parties. As someone who voted IMP yesterday I would have liked a little more information around the differences between them and say the Greens. If the wider public are shifting away from the NAT’s and their corrupt practices it allows them to make a more informed decision about which party they want to vote for. We can’t just assume they would all vote Labour.

            The honesty of the NAT’s only discredits them. It doesn’t help you decide which of the other parties you will vote for. Policy does.

            • McFlock 9.1.1.1.1.1

              So worrying about the nat’s policies being the size of a postage stamp is pretty irrelevant, if they’ve already been shown up as dishonest.

              Which is more important: covering the blatant lying of our pm, or covering the policy manifestos of half a dozen other parties? I reckon that those who are interested in policy would find it themselves, e.g. party websites, but those who are more interested in character issues and baby-kissing photos will rely 100% on the msm.

              • CrashCart

                Why does it have to be one or the other. My point the whole time is that they are both important. I could equally argue that those who care about Dirty Politics could go and read the book.

                Not sure how you can dismiss the importance of defining the difference between parties especially on the left where we have a plethora of choice. With out clear communication of those poicies through an easily accessable medium those moving away from the NAT’s are just as likely to tick the Conservative box as say Winston Peter’s and not understand that not only will that lead to a whole lot fo crazy but it will also help return the NAT’s to power.

                It’s all well and good for those who can be bothered taking the time to go and read up on different polocies. However for the large number of people who form their opinioin’s from the MSM (and they are the ones we want to influence with the coverage of Dirty Politics) they will also make their choice on change based on what they hear in the MSM.

                • McFlock

                  it’s not “one or the other”, the issue is relative importance.
                  I don’t kjnow I care about the contents of a book if I haven’t read the book – it could be bunk for all I know, or misleading title/cover.

                  If I care about preschool access or water quality, I know to try to find policy on it.

                  And frankly, people who care more about character are likely to switch off the msm if it ignores character for policy descriptions.

    • Dialey 9.2

      It’s about trust and ethics, which are at the core of the contract between the electorate and the elected. If we cannot trust our representatives, then it doesn’t matter what the hell their policies are.

    • RedBaronCV 9.3

      Perhaps you could take this up with the MSM. One day in the last three weeks the front page lead of a major daily, story covering the full page was ” a story and a picture (which I didn’t want to look at as being too gruesome) of somebody who had had their face bitten by a dog” which I am sure was horrible and painful. But this story and others like it occupied the front page quite consisitently over the whole period. NAct had no policy that they could discuss perhaps?

  10. Here are some questions for Clare Curran (Labour IT spokes person at the time) who seemed to know that unauthorized changes made to the software handling the Sydney side of the Southern Cross cable crashed the internet connection for NZ on 9 October 2012.

    If you want to do it yourself you might want to copy past this in your twitter message box en tweet it to them:

    @clarecurranmp @DavidCunliffeMP @nzlabour What did Clare Curran know about the SC Cable outage on 9 Nov 2012 http://wp.me/p638n-4tX

    Question for Lynn: How likely is it that unauthorized software changes can be made without notification by an unauthorized individual in what is the only connection of NZ to the rest of the world?

    • weka 10.1

      I thought it weird that that article on the outage quoted Curran so much when she was in opposition. I don’t think there was any comment from the govt.

  11. key on breakfast tvone:..

    “..we can’t just go and look..we have to get a warrant to go into that database..’

    ..question:..which/what ‘database’..?

    ..the one that snowden detailed accessing from hawaii..?

    ..(has key involuntarily admitted something here..?..)

    • Steve 11.1

      Ah the house of cards is crumbling. I think the meme is now gently shifting to “it’s only surveillance if you look at the information – not if you just collect it’.

      With more to come from Greenwald and even Craig talking about issues of trust Slippery is possibly having his last slither.

      Whatever the outcome on Saturday Key is now, and will increasingly become, severely damaged goods.

      • phillip ure 11.1.1

        i think you can further synthesise it down to:

        ..we don’t collect it..they do…

        ..and re yr ‘damaged-goods’ comment..

        ..should the unthinkable happen..and key get back in..

        ..it will be open warfare from day one..

        ..he will have the shortest political-honeymoon period on record..

        • travellerev 11.1.1.1

          Honeymoon long over. He will be a lame duck shitting bricks everyday for fear something else will come out. And he knows he is in Government on borrowed time! Can’t be nice. Looks like Winston Peters is a real alternative for those who hate labor and green but want to breakaway from National’s poisoned well and who don’t want to kowtow to the International Corps by signing the TTPA.

        • yeshe 11.1.1.2

          as in, I break into your house and steal your television. ekshully, at the end of the day, it’s not stolen until I turn it on.

  12. Local Kiwi 12

    Rodel – I want to hear about other parties policy you said.

    Look up Other parties policy of the web?

    They all have it laid out, as update as you can get.

    NZ First has a very good policy on regional rail if you are interested better than every other party.

    “Rails of National significance”

    They have very well thought out policies.

    I am Labour but fringe NZF and Green, so good combination we think.

    • the policy-comparison that has me gobsmacked..(and perhaps distills my disquiet at/with labour..)

      ..is that the twenty grand tax-free policy of rightwing-nutjob/moon-landing-denier craig..

      ..would do more for the childless-poor..

      ..than anything labour has on offer..

      ..which is exactly diddly-fucken-squat..

      (when pressed cunnliffe said a ‘financial surplus’ was more important for labour..than any idea of raining benefit rates at all..)

      ..and so..the poorest of the poor..will just be left to rot by labour..again..

      ..’far-right party does more for the poor than labour’

      ..(how is that for a headline..?..)

      ..anyone with strong beliefs/desires to right those wrongs..

      ..must look past labour..

      ..to internet/mana and the greens..

      ..labour is still too in the thrall of its’ neo-libbers..

      .none of whom have ever cared very much for the poor..

    • Rodel 12.2

      Local Kiwi – Thanks I do know the policies. I am committed t o Cunliffe and Labour and have ticked Labour twice..no question.

      I want to HEAR the politicians and their policies not for me but because the wavering voters are the ones who need to hear them….free doctors visits for over 65s and kids…raising the Minimum wage…preventing the sale of further assets… shutting John Banks’ s ridiculous charter schools…re-establishing a public TV channel..etc etc.

      Most people know the Key corporation is deceitful but the positive Labour and Greens..(grudgingly he said) policies and Winston’s ideas are getting submersed in the high profile scandals about John Key.

      Incidentally, nice to hear that 10% of voters (300,000 or so have already voted- Big turnout augurs well for the left.

  13. brian 13

    Definition of Mass surveillance:

    I would like to hear the unequivocal positions of all parties as to their definition of mass surveillance.

    Do they define mass surveillance as (a) capturing and storing data without the permission of the private citizen?, or (b) do they not consider that to be surveillance until they look at that information?

    It is clear that the Sleazy Dirty Politics Party is hoping to redefine mass surveillance as in (b) above.

  14. brian 14

    Political Response to Mass surveillance

    The Sleazy Dirty Politics Party will obviously stay in the Five Evil Eyes Axis

    David Cunliffe has indicated that the Labour Party will also stay in the FEEA

    Is there any party of decency remaining?

    • brian 14.1

      I’ve possibly been too harsh on Labour:

      “Labour will repeal and replace the GCSB law after an independent inquiry in to New Zealand’s intelligence services”

      Still a niggling doubt. Why has David Cunliffe also said that Labour will stay in the Axis? Surely that position should follow the inquiry above

      • Rosie 14.1.1

        Brian, for what it’s worth, David Cunliffe spoke at a public talk about the TICS Bill last year in August on your point:

        “Labour will repeal and replace the GCSB law after an independent inquiry in to New Zealand’s intelligence services”.

        He spoke at length and spoke with conviction about NZer’s right to privacy. He was sincerely and strongly opposed to the government mass spying on its citizens. Its hard to imagine however that a Labour govt will throw out intelligence sharing relationships NZ has had with allies post WW2 but we can only hope the way in which they operate will be part of the review.

        As for your last question at 14. Didn’t Dotcom say the Internet Party would take one eye out of the five eyes alliance? (or did I imagine that?)

        • brian 14.1.1.1

          It is unlikely that New Zealand can influence the four big eyes in the Axis to dump their desires to continue with mass surveillance.

          So the question will be for all New Zealanders whether we want to continue with intelligence sharing relationships we have had with allies since WW2, if the price of that intelligence is that we have to accept mass surveillance.

          You say it is hard to imagine that Labour will want to stop the relationship. Which I agree with, since I have heard Cunliffe say (sorry cannot recall source) that Labour would stay with Five eyes.

          It looks like an important point of differentiation between Labour and their possible coalition partners. From your comment above, I am pleased that the Internet Party may be willing to remove an eye, and say so now. The Green Party have also been very concerned about surveillance issues, although I do not know what they are thinking about continuing with 5 eyes.

          It’s an issue that I wish to resolve before I vote. What I desire is a party that can provide a clear assurance that mass surveillance will not be tolerated, and that NZ will not participate in any alliance if the price for that alliance is Orwellian.

  15. brian 15

    How safe is National Radio?

    Maori Television is now feeling the effect of publishing stories that do not suit the spin of the Sleazy Dirty Politics Party.

    John Key already will front up to National Radio (presumably fearing Guyon Espiner) as little as possible?

    In this climate, how safe is National Radio from being “restructured” so that Guyon Espiner will no longer have a job (sending a message to all others), if the Sleazy Dirty Politics Party gets another term in Parliament?

  16. Chooky 16

    Compelling summary by lawyer Denis Tegg with graphics on the issues of mass surveillance…questions to be asked now… and time for John key to come clean:

    ‘GUEST BLOG – Denis Tegg – The NSA slides that prove mass surveillance’

    By The Daily Blog / September 17, 2014

    “The evidence presented by Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden on The Intercept of mass surveillance of New Zealanders by the GCSB is undeniable, and can stand on its own….

    – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/17/guest-blog-denis-tegg-the-nsa-slides-that-prove-mass-surveillance/#sthash.uq22KklT.dpuf

  17. brian 17

    Kicking the boot into the Poor.

    News today. WINZ is closing regional offices, such as the one in Raglan

    The Heartless Sleazy Dirty Politics Party (HSDPP) now expects those without work to have to pay to travel to Hamilton to a WINZ office.

    If they cannot afford the travel, presumably they will lose the benefit they are entitled to; and the HSDPP will be able to trumpet that the number of people receiving the benefit is less under their watch. Do they care about poverty? The HSDPP must have been the only group in New Zealand who smiled and saw an “opportunity” from the Ashburton tragedy.

    • Oh Goodie! Expect more crime, more despair, more alcohol and violence. Poor Rags. I live near it. They just want people to move out of small places into the big cities. This is just pure Agenda 21 shit.

      In Kawhia you don’t even get the dole if you live there because they say you clearly are not interested in a job if you want to live there. Never mind the family breakups, more lack of family support.

      You poor? You rot in a burp in old leaky cold houses if you’re lucky without any hope for the future or a family life.

      • Molly 17.1.1

        “In Kawhia you don’t even get the dole if you live there because they say you clearly are not interested in a job if you want to live there. Never mind the family breakups, more lack of family support. “

        Kawhia is a beautiful place… wonder how much of that restriction is based on “why should the unemployed live in such an area of natural beauty when I have to work in the urban jungle?”

        Sustainable regional development is required – imagine how local economies can be supported by those on benefits spending their money there instead of on high rentals in forced moves to cities.

        A ridiculous policy in terms of long-term benefits to people and communities.

        • brian 17.1.1.1

          An unemployed person has to live somewhere while they are looking for a job. If whanau are in Kawhia, that would seem a good place to stay temporarily. I’m reading from your comment, that the same thing will happen for those who live in Raglan.

          New policy. “If you are unemployed and wish a benefit, you will be required to live within walking distance of any WINZ office that has not yet closed”

          I wish more emphasis was placed on the carrot and not the stick

          • Molly 17.1.1.1.1

            Agree.

            And how much further the benefit would go in terms of providing the basics of life, and the opportunity to make changes if you are not required to live in an overpriced, unhealthy rental in a city where you don’t have a support system?

          • freedom 17.1.1.1.2

            brian, what source are you quoting from?

            • brian 17.1.1.1.2.1

              My apology: Where I wrote “New Policy ….If you are….” I did not make it clear that this was not a serious comment. I should have. The quotation marks invited your reasonable query.

              • freedom

                thanks, i suspected it was ‘paraphrasing’ an idea and was not an actual statement but thought it best to clarify.

                Don’t want the concern tr_lls skim reading and mis-quoting 😎

      • Draco T Bastard 17.1.2

        This is just pure Agenda 21 shit.

        Oh, FFS*, Agenda 21 is a voluntary code for societies and nations to follow to become sustainable. It includes combating poverty. As such I think we can assume that what National is doing is completely against Agenda 21 as they’re increasing poverty.

        National probably see small communities as a cost on everyone else and thus they seek to get rid of them to further lower taxes. This is completely delusional but that does seem to describe National accurately.

        * I get really fucked off with this conspiracy theory BS that’s been spread by, as far as I can make out, the Koch Brothers. Being sustainable does mean not using oil any more and the Koch Brothers do produce a lot of oil.

        • thatguynz 17.1.2.1

          There’s a whole load more to A21 than simply sustainability DtB 🙂 Sustainability is the Trojan Horse to make it palatable.. (And I think all of us would agree with the virtue of sustainability).

          • Draco T Bastard 17.1.2.1.1

            Well then, you should be able to point out where it’s all a conspiracy to have an unelected few ruling the world.

            • thatguynz 17.1.2.1.1.1

              That’s not what I said DtB 🙂

              • Draco T Bastard

                You haven’t actually said what you mean and yet every time I’ve seen the Agenda 21 conspiracy theory mentioned that’s what’s meant.

                • thatguynz

                  That is probably because I haven’t referred to Agenda 21 as a “conspiracy theory”. It’s very real and relates to significantly more than simply “sustainability”. IMO a good video on the topic is here – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GykzQWlXJs and it’s also worth reading Gro Harlem Brundtland’s book “Our Common Future” which was the precursor to Agenda 21. Your mileage may of course vary.

                  Disclaimer – I fully support the notion of “sustainable” development and living within our environmental means and that resources are finite. I don’t support A21 as the embodiment of this however 🙂

        • Murray Olsen 17.1.2.2

          I do too. If anyone reads the actual Agenda 21 documents, they’re pretty innocuous. For those who rely on Alex Jones, it’s the scariest thing since chemtrails.

          • thatguynz 17.1.2.2.1

            If anyone relies on Alex Jones as the sole arbiter of truth they have bigger issues than either Agenda 21 OR chemtrails 🙂

    • weka 17.2

      “If they cannot afford the travel, presumably they will lose the benefit they are entitled to;”

      Pretty sure WINZ has an obligation to ensure access. So if someone can’t travel, then WINZ need to make their service accessible in another way eg by email/ph, or by sending a staffer to the area. Of course WINZ staffers will tell beneficiaries that the bene has to travel, but this should be challengeable.

  18. brian 18

    Where is Jason Ede?

  19. KATY 19

    National in trouble, time to call in Super Paula with a distraction, only don’t think it will work this time. What with the election so close and all that.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/policies/10508263/Nats-promise-cut-to-benefit-numbers

  20. Ffloyd 20

    No,no,no. It’s alright. Franny has said that ‘john key wins’ and has kept his integrity intact. So it’s on to the final debate (which key will triumph in of course) and business as usual. I was never aware that he has any integrity.

  21. Rosie 21

    If facebook likes were votes:

    https://www.facebook.com/bretthudson.national

    Vs.

    https://www.facebook.com/virginia.andersen.ohariu

    and if Stuff votes were real:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10507529/Dunne-gets-the-nod-from-Nationals-candidate

    We’d have a new MP for Ohariu come Saturday………………..

    • weka 21.1

      Fingers crossed and prayers said Rosie. Keep up the good work!

    • Chooky 21.2

      +100 Rosie…good luck!

    • ianmac 21.3

      Notice how Hudson talks about places while Virginia talks about people.
      Things V People. Go Virginia and perhaps offer that jaded looking Pete a cup of coffee or something.

      • Rosie 21.3.1

        Yes, there is a big difference between Brett Hudson and Ginny Andersen. Notice how Hudson mainly puts up Natz terrible empty policy (eg slave labour in prisons) and talks very little about the electorate on his fb and you’re right Ginny Andersen is very people focused, and in a genuine way.

        He has referred several times to his the positive feedback he is getting about the Nat govt, when door knocking but that is all. I’m sure he is only focusing on the safe wealthier looking suburbs lol. Not a peep about the poverty in the community which Ginny has covered well.
        What he hasn’t said is how he has been literally laughed out loud at, at several candidates meetings (he didn’t go down well at the one I went to) and that he’s out early every morning checking damage to his hoardings.

  22. Penny Bright 22

    FYI

    17 September 2014

    URGENT : Request for an Inquiry by the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security, Cheryl Gwyn – re matters arising from the Snowden GCSB/ NSA ‘revelations’.

    Dear Inspector-General,

    Yesterday, I emailed the following URGENT ‘Open Letter/ OIA request to NZ Prime Minister John Key regarding questions arising from the Edward Snowden GCSB/ NSA ‘revelations’:

    I have yet to even have an emailed acknowledgment of receipt of this urgent correspondence.

    In order for the public to have confidence in both the NZ Prime Minister, and the NZ Intelligence and Security services, in my opinion, we need to know that we have not been lied to regarding the mass surveillance of New Zealand citizens.

    Please conduct an urgent inquiry into the following questions that I have asked of the Prime Minister, as you are empowered to do under s.11 (1) (b) (i) of the ‘Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security Act 1996:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1996/0047/latest/DLM392526.html

    11Functions of Inspector-General

    (1)Subject to the provisions of this Act, the functions of the Inspector-General shall be—

    (a)to inquire, of the Inspector-General’s own motion or at the request of the Minister, into any matter that relates to the compliance by an intelligence and security agency with the law of New Zealand:

    (b)to inquire into any complaint by—

    (i)a New Zealand person; or
    (ii)a person who is an employee or former employee of an intelligence and security agency,—
    that that person has or may have been adversely affected by any act, omission, practice, policy, or procedure of an intelligence and security agency:

    (ba)to inquire into any complaint made by the Speaker of the House of Representatives on behalf of 1 or more members of Parliament:

    (c)to inquire at the request of the Minister or the Prime Minister or of the Inspector-General’s own motion into any matter where it appears that a New Zealand person has been or may be adversely affected by any act, omission, practice, policy, or procedure of an intelligence and security agency:

    (ca)to inquire at the request of the Minister or the Prime Minister or of the Inspector-General’s own motion into the propriety of particular activities of an intelligence and security agency:

    (d)without limiting paragraph (a), to review at intervals of not more than 12 months—

    (i)the effectiveness and appropriateness of the procedures adopted by each intelligence and security agency to ensure compliance with its governing legislation in relation to the issue and execution of warrants and authorisations; and
    (ii)the effectiveness and appropriateness of compliance systems concerning operational activity, including all supporting policies and practices of an intelligence and security agency relating to—

    (A)administration; and

    (B)information management; and

    (C)risk management; and

    (D)legal compliance generally:

    (da)to conduct unscheduled audits of the procedures and compliance systems described in paragraph (d):

    (e)to prepare and submit to the Minister from time to time for his or her approval programmes for the general oversight and review of each intelligence and security agency and for the discharge by the Inspector-General, in relation to each intelligence and security agency, of the particular functions specified in this section:

    (f)to carry out any programme or amended programme or substituted programme approved by the Minister under paragraph (e).

    (2)[Repealed]

    (3)In carrying out any inquiry in accordance with the provisions of subsection (1)(ca), it shall not be a function of the Inspector-General to inquire into any action taken by the Minister.

    (4)Except to the extent strictly necessary for the performance of his or her functions under subsection (1), the Inspector-General shall not inquire into any matter that is operationally sensitive, including any matter that relates to intelligence collection and production methods or sources of information.

    (5)The Inspector-General shall not conduct an inquiry into a complaint made under subsection (1) by an employee or former employee of an intelligence and security agency unless—
    (a)all established internal remedies have been exhausted; or
    (b)the employee or former employee and the chief executive of the relevant intelligence and security agency otherwise agree in writing.

    (6)Where an inquiry has been conducted by the Inspector-General following a complaint, the Inspector-General may make such recommendations for the redress of that complaint as the Inspector-General thinks fit (including remedies that involve the payment of compensation).
    __________________________________________

    16 September 2014

    ‘Open Letter/ OIA request to NZ Prime Minister John Key regarding questions arising from the Edward Snowden GCSB/ NSA ‘revelations’

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Under the ‘urgency’ and ‘public interest’ provisions of the NZ Official Information Act, please provide answers to the following by 5pm Thursday 18 September 2014:

    Please provide the following information that explains:

    1) Why did you inform the public that the GCSB Amendment Bill would not lead to an expansion of powers when at the same time you were planning the Speargun mass surveillance initiative?

    2) Why was phase one of the Speargun project completed if it was, as you have claimed, something that never made it past the “business case”?

    3) Why New Zealanders were not informed about the Cortex project until the NZ Government’s hand was forced by disclosures based on documents from Snowden?

    4) How much data is collected on a daily basis by GCSB under the Cortex project, and how does the agency ensure this data does not “incidentally” include the content or metadata of citizens’ communications?

    5) What technology is this, referred to in the Cortex documents, that “has been around for some time”?

    6) Is any information collected by GCSB under Cortex — or any other program that accesses internet data — shared with the NSA and/or other Five Eyes agencies through systems such as XKEYSCORE?

    7) Does GCSB have access to XKEYSCORE and, if so, for how long has this been the case?

    8) Does GCSB use its access to internet data streams — under initiatives like Cortex or similar — to launch active/offensive cyber operations that involve hacking computer systems to collect information?

    9) When will you declassify documents detailing the Speargun project and showing that it was not completed?

    _________________________________________________________

    Please be advised that I have based this OIA request upon information contained in the following article:

    “THE QUESTIONS FOR NEW ZEALAND ON MASS SURVEILLANCE”
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/15/questions-new-zealand-mass-surveillance/

    I believe that these are fair questions to which the New Zealander voting public need true and accurate answers.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright
    ………………………

  23. ropata 23

    Key’s reputation is more important than NZ’s foreign relations or trade. That’s why he had to declassify top secret documents. Irresponsible fuckwit

    • JRT 23.1

      I think his declassifying secret documents to save his own skin is what will ultimately finish him. Those documents were either 1) made secret to hide what Key was doing from New Zealand or 2) made secret for the safety of New Zealand, and so to release them to save his own political reputation is treasonous. Either way, he cannot stay as Prime MInister. Everyone has been looking for the smoking gun that will finally incriminate Key, but I think that decision he took to release those documents was him pulling the trigger on his own political demise.

      • ropata 23.1.1

        Agreed, this is a rushed move with desperation written all over it. A new low from the dirtiest PM in living memory.

      • Draco T Bastard 23.1.2

        The smoking gun has been there since at least 2008.

        • JRT 23.1.2.1

          Yes DTB, it has always been clear that Key is a liar out to line his own pockets. The National voters seem to understand and respect that for some reason only known to themselves. But Key has now stepped over the line into behavior that is treasonous, and that is a very different story.

  24. joe90 24

    If only….

  25. brian 25

    Why have the Main Stream Media not published the last information given to them by Whaledump?

    Why is their inaction being forgotten?

    Why did Whaledump not dump his final dump to the public in the same way that previous information was dumped?

    Why has Whaledump not been resurrected to rectify the disappointing response of the Media?

    This election campaign has exposed the sorry state of New Zealand journalism. We once could expect our journalists to provide accurate reporting of events, regardless of their own political views. (We still can for a few journalists)

    We now have far too many ‘Media Stars’ who appear to believe that they are more important than their stories. I do not want media stars giving patsy questions to the politicians they favour. I want information. And credibility (for both ‘Media Star’ and politician) that can only come from searching and thoughtful questions. And I certainly do not want, what appears to be Whaledump censorship.

  26. Chooky 26

    A MUST LISTEN with great relevance to foreign companies buying up New Zealand land eg Goldman Sachs

    In her new book, Expulsions, Columbia University sociology professor Saskia Sassen offers a chilling analysis of the dynamics shaping the global economy, including their effects of income inequality, expanding populations of the displaced, and accelerating destruction of land and water bodies.

    Dr Sassen has led several multi-year projects into the forces of globalisation, and says technological and economic advances of our time have seen a sharp growth in the number of people expelled from the core social and economic orders.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20149953/how-global-economic-forces-increase-disparity

    http://www.kontext-tv.de/broadcast/10102013/saskia-sassen-expulsion/land-grabbing

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/saskia-sassen/

    (Thankyou to Kathryn Ryan for this interview)

  27. freedom 27

    Today’s Nine till Noon interview on ‘minority government’ certainly covered a lot of ground but yet again the content of the interview raised obvious questions that never get addressed.

    eg: If [National] try to form a minority Government without fixed partners and/or C&S agreements and they ask the Governor General to allow a confidence vote in the House, should MP’s/Parties have a right to abstain on that vote?

    To continue the Judge/Jury analogy that was being framed – where the GG is the Judge and the newly elected MPs are the Jury – ask yourself, are Jurors allowed to abstain from making a verdict decision? No! So why should Members of our Parliament be allowed to abstain when deciding who will govern?

  28. karol 29

    Russell Brown’s interview with Glenn Greenwald today in Public Address is worth reading. Looks like it was GG’s request that KDC not talk about his email, as it would distract from the spying issues.

    • adam 29.1

      I think Mr Greenwald underestimated how much our media had fallen. How our media love the story to be about themselves. And how much our media are partisan hacks. With a few, too few, exceptions.

    • karol 29.2

      The interview.

      A final question: you dissociated yourself from Kim Dotcom’s Warner email at the press conference last night. Did you go so far as to veto it being presented on the night?

      No, I wouldn’t say I vetoed it. I didn’t really have the power to veto what he wanted to do or say. But we did talk about the fact that in the scheme of what we might talk about, that the time would probably be used a lot more constructively to focus on the questions of mass surveillance and the truthfulness of the Prime Minister, and the trade agreement that Mr Amsterdam spent quite some time talking about, as opposed to the particulars of Mr Dotcom’s case. That it would probably be a better use of the time of the event. I think we came to a consensus about it and I felt very comfortable with that.

      • Tracey 29.2.1

        Duncan garner and 3rd degree tonight interview former dotcom employees with nothing nice to say…

        Key and Joyce must be due to call tv3 out for focusing on non policy issues…

        • karol 29.2.1.1

          Apparently interviewing KDC, too. This sort of programme, bound to have been in the pipeline for a while, shows why it was good sense to separate the Greenwald-Snowden MoT from KDC’s issues.

          I’m no fan of the guy: don’t expect him to come across as Mr Nice Guy.

      • Tracey 29.2.2

        Which puts a bit of a lie to the notion they were all just paid patsies of dotcom

  29. Pete 30

    I’m not expecting much from this evening’s debate. 30 minutes (22 after ads), with around 5 minutes being opening and closing remarks. Another few minutes being Hosking blathering on. It will be full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    • Lanthanide 30.1

      It’s supposed to be about coalition partners and forming the government, so Hosking is likely to ask Key about his plans to cause a constitutional crises by trying to form a government without a majority in Parliament.

  30. joe90 31

    Things aren’t looking too good for the worlds second largest ice sheet.

    This year, Greenland’s ice sheet was the darkest Box (or anyone else) has ever measured. Box gives the stunning stats: “In 2014 the ice sheet is precisely 5.6 percent darker, producing an additional absorption of energy equivalent with roughly twice the US annual electricity consumption.”

    Perhaps coincidentally, 2014 will also be the year with the highest number of forest fires ever measured in Arctic.

    […]

    Earlier this year, Box made headlines for a strongly worded statement along these lines:

    Jason Box @climate_ice

    If even a small fraction of Arctic sea floor carbon is released to the atmosphere, we’re f’d.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/09/16/jason_box_s_research_into_greenland_s_dark_snow_raises_more_concerns_about.html

  31. North 32

    What an ‘on-to-it’ (not) guy is John Key ! Snowden “may well be right” now.

    Anyone get the feeling that Key changes his tune and his tone according to directives from far away ? Which is the whole troubling point ‘akshilly’.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11326387

    • Tracey 32.1

      The question late last week was

      Are loads of NZers being spied upon

      ?..

      If you follow his answers through to today we have now reached

      Yes

      But in such a way the media can pretend he didnt.

    • Potato 32.2

      I have become so disillusioned and cynical by the mans lies, that after reading that headline, my next thought is that if he’s conceding to that one there must be something even worse being hidden from us now 🙁

  32. Raa 33

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Does the Five Eyes Alliance have the ability to fix on-line lotteries ?

    If so, could you please put in a good word for me for this weekend ?

    Regards,

    Raa.

  33. cogito 34

    http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/national-promises-25-pct-less-beneficiaries-2014091709

    So now we know why Paula Bennett was dishing out all the hugs and sickly sweet comments in Ashburton a few days ago…. she was just softening up staff for her next jackboot onslaught.

    Typically cynical of a woman with the ethics of an alley cat.

  34. Clemgeopin 35

    Marcus Lush compares and contrasts Labour vs National campaign meeting in Mangere and Mt Albert.

    Both Labour and National leaders were in Auckland over the weekend: On Saturday, Marcus Lush took a trip to Mangere to see David Cunliffe appear before party supporters and media, while on Sunday, John Key appeared at a daycare centre in Mount Albert.

    Here’s how each event went.

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Marcus-Lush-on-the-hustings-Comparing-Labour-in-Mangere-with-National-in-Mount-Albert/tabid/439/articleID/54777/Default.aspx

    • adam 35.1

      Wow, that was good – thanks for that Clem

      • Clemgeopin 35.1.1

        You are welcome. The National’s ‘clinical’ approach made me laugh! Those poor little kids were brought to school on a Sunday morning, (Yes, Sunday!) like for a quiet respectful funeral service conducted by their holiness, King Key and patron saint of kids, Paula Bennett! What a disgrace!

  35. North 36

    Armstrong – what is this increasingly shrill wishful thinking from New Zealand’s premier GodKey shill ? Sure ain’t journalism. This from the “time to resign – 11 year old form letter” man:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/john-armstrong/news/article.cfm?a_id=3&objectid=11325925

  36. Amongst all the sleaze and covers up from National I wonder if anyone who knows how too has checked on the Conservatives election expensives .The huge post office delivery expense must be very big.The Cons seem to be spending money nonstop. Their election bill needs to be explained.

  37. philj 38

    xox
    With all this spying ( information hoovering) capacity, surely the head spy knows the game is over, and his master’s will tell him so. The high priest has been defrocked.

  38. James Thrace 39

    Latest roy morgan poll is out

    Again, still too close to call. National-led Government: National Party, Maori Party, ACT NZ, United Future on 49% (up from 46.5% in August 31 poll)

    Opposition Parties: Labour Party, Green Party, Internet-Mana Party alliance, NZ First; down to 46.5 (from 49% in August 31 poll)

    Nothing more than an old switcherooni.

    National is up 1.5
    Labour down 2
    Greens down 2.5
    NZ1st up 2
    Maori Party up 1

    No real change for everyone else.

    Even so, based on those numbers, assuming Dunne is gone from Ohariu, and even with Seymour in Epsom, it still leaves National short. Have assumed conservatives get 4.5% and are out of parliament. The percentage signs relate to the party vote gained on the day.

    I am worried that Labour will get less overall, particularly as the weather on the day is shaping up to be nasty.

    I have modified the results as RM is usually out by a little bit (not much) so figures are my predictions on what the votes are likely to be on the date.

    ACT New Zealand 1.50% 2 MPs (1 electorate + 1.5% PV)
    Green Party 16.00% 21 MPs (no electorates)
    Internet MANA 2.00% 3 MPs (1 electorate +2% PV)
    Labour Party 26.00% 34 MPs (29 Electorates+ 5 list)
    Māori Party 1.00% 2 Mps (2 electorates)
    National Party 39.00% 50 Mps (37 electorates + 13 list)
    New Zealand First Party 7.00% 9 Mps (no electorates)

    121 seats total.

    Using the numbers:

    National + Act + MP = 54 seats
    Even if Dunne gets in, that still only gives them 55 seats

    Labour + Green + NZ1st = 64 seats, if Dunne gets in, that makes it 63 seats for the left block. I have factored in the probability of Ginny winning Ohariu.

    I can’t see Winston wanting to be part of a four headed monster, or even in a Nat+NZ1+Act/MP/Dunne configuration.

    However, If National got 42% and Labour got 23% on Saturday in their respective party votes (n/c to electorates won), then the left block would likely need IMP to be part of a formal coalition, or in a confidence and supply arrangement.

    Other alternative is that Lab+Grn+NZ1 combined on a 60 seat bloc in 121 seat parliament could run a minority government.

    A national+act+uf+mp bloc is only 58 seats in a 121 seat parliament.

    I haven’t done any configurations with Conservatives as I believe people will shy away from them at the last minute and switch to Winsome Winnie instead of Crazy Colon.

    Overall conclusion? This election is coming down to the wire.

    • Zorr 39.1

      You’re not taking in to account the traditional 3-4% swing left in the actual voting (even with Roy Morgan being the most accurate). Take in to account that and the high volatility this time and I think National have to be very worried.

      • James Thrace 39.1.1

        Zorr – I have taken it into account. I’ve attributed more of the left swing to IMP and Greens rather than to Labour.

        • Karen 39.1.1.1

          The final Roy Morgan poll before the last election had Labour at 23.5% but they actually got 27.5%. The Greens were overestimated by 3% however.

          • JRT 39.1.1.1.1

            Yep, if this poll is like the one taken before the last election, the only difference between this poll and the actual election would be that the right bloc had 2% less on the day. So National probably on 44%, Labour + Greens + NZFirst on 46% at the moment. It is going to be very close.

        • weka 39.1.1.2

          What about the undecideds?

    • Ad 39.2

      Your optimism is appreciated.

      Here’s hoping the TV3 one tonight has a similar trend.

    • Enough is Enough 39.3

      You have given National 39%…based on what?

    • anker 39.4

      Yes James but National in 2011 last RM poll = 49.5
      2011 election result = 47.31
      last Rm poll 2014 = 46.5

  39. emergency mike 40

    John Key is trying to discredit Snowden’s information by calling him a ‘hacker’.

    “Edward Snowden hacked into the NSA. He downloaded illegally millions of documents, some of which related to New Zealand.”

    Which is a gross misrepresentation of what happened. He was an NSA contractor with high level clearance, he didn’t need to hack into them.

    FFS are there any journalists in this country who aren’t happy to let Key just make shit up like this?

    • weka 40.1

      This is good though. Key and his team being tied up having to make shit up that looks a big credible, instead of being out there campaigning.

      What you said about the MSM +1000 There seem to be a few that are getting it right this week. I assume he is avoiding them.

  40. weka 41

    Damn, Laila has me wanting to vote IMP again,

    Laila Harré ‏@lailaharre 2 hrs
    #InternetMANA will make #TPPA a top target in post-election negs. Party vote for certainty on where we will stand: http://bit.ly/1mcHC5l

    https://internet.org.nz/news/89

  41. Ffloyd 42

    Blimming heck! What on earth is Soper on. On prime, giving Cunliffe grief for not turning up to some tinpot radio station wanting to know “is Cunliffe serious about wanting to lead the country” Has anybody heard if key is going to debate the whole hour as Cunliffe has requested??

    • halfcrown 42.1

      Exactly my thoughts. Any shit these right wing turds can throw at the left they will do. Did you see Armstrong’s heap of shit today along with Frankfurter’s? Do they honestly believe the crap they write or are they, just like Soper insulting our intelligence or taking the piss.

    • emergency mike 42.2

      Cunliffe didn’t request it, TVNZ did. Cunliffe said yes, Key said no.

      And we know why. 30mins with ads is fk all time each. Not enough to cover all the issues, and 5 eyes.

    • @ floyd..

      ..on a day when key admits there is mass-surveillance of nz’ers..barry ‘i’m barry soper..!..and i know s.f.a..!’ soper..the political editor of sky news..

      ..chooses to run with a cunnliffe hatchet-job..

      ..he really is one of the worst..that soper…

      ..such a craven tory lackey/lickspittle..

  42. Pasupial 43

    Advance voting looks like it’ll comprise over a third of total votes this election. The running total blew past the 2008 numbers on Monday, and 2011 yesterday:

    http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/advance-voting-statistics

    It looks set to top 410,000 tonight. In 2008 51% of advance votes were cast in the final three day period, in 2011 that was 55%. I predict that the total advance vote will be over 800 000, and if we treat the 2011 proportion as predictive then the total would be 40% of the 2011 total vote. Though I think that the total vote will be up this time too, so the advance vote proportion of that will be around 35%.

    A key advantage of advance voting is that you are less susceptible to caging-list strategies that have been employed in the US as a key part of dirty political strategy. There is a nationwide need for scrutineers to monitor the advance count (downside; you’ll be locked in from 1:30-7pm with no phone access, upside; that’s shorter than the 9am-9pm that polling station scutineers are expected to stick around, and there’s only one required per party per electorate, as opposed to the dozens of polling stations). If you haven’t planned to contribute to the election day in any other way yet, this might be something to consider (get in touch with your favoured party and offer your time – the candidate has to sign off on it).

  43. anker 44

    Re the polls………….not sure what this means but did some figures when the Roy Morgan came out today.

    2011 RM last poll before election Result 2011…………..Last RM poll before 2014

    Nat 49.5 47.31 46.5

    Lab 23.5 27.48 24.00

    Green 14.5 11.06 13.5

    NZ 1st 6.59 6.59 8

    UF .6 .6 .5

    Maori 1.4 1.43 .5

    Mana 1 1 (IMP)

    Cons 2.65 2.65 3.5

    Act 1.5 1.07 .5

    Not sure what this all means, except Nats down 3% from last RM poll and then down 2% in actual election. Will check to make sure got figures right. Sorry didn’t get Mana’s actual election result.

  44. Te Reo Putake 45

    National stuffed in 3news poll. 44.5% Labour 25.6 Greens 14.4 Winston 7.

    (Conservatives 4.9%!!!)

    • weka 45.1

      how does that make National stuffed?

      • Colonial Viper 45.1.1

        Because National will probably poll 2% lower and the Conservatives with end up scraping together just over 4%.

      • Te Reo Putake 45.1.2

        CV’s on to it, weka. Last election, this poll had the Nats on 50.8% (3% higher than the actual result). Labour 26% (down 1.5%). Even if the overestimation is narrower this time, Key can’t form a Government without NZF on these numbers. No other option.

        They also showed what would happen if Craycray sneaks in. Again, no show without Winnie (and ACT, MP, UF). The dreaded 5 headed monster!

        • weka 45.1.2.1

          Try running it through the calculator. I just put those TV3 figures in but adjusted down to CV’s figures for National and Craig, and it looks like National and Peters can form govt with no-one else.

          please check my figures though

          • weka 45.1.2.1.1

            and either way, how is National stuffed when they can still use Peters?

          • Te Reo Putake 45.1.2.1.2

            True enough, weka. But why would Winnie go with National? NZF’s entire policy package (except Laura Norder) is a close fit with Labour’s. And I’m picking the opportunity to knock Key off his perch would be irresistible to a man with a big ego and a bitter memory of 3 years in the wilderness.

            Et tu Winstus?

            • weka 45.1.2.1.2.1

              Two words: Green Party.

              Or one word: bauble.

              On the other hand, Labour are quite capable of shafting the GP again and allowing Peters to force a L/NZF govt with C and S from the Greens.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Harsh description of the process on that occasion, and it wasn’t a L/NZF government anyway. NZF only gave C&S as I recall. The Greens did the same.

                • weka

                  ok, leaving the past in the past, do you think that Labour would let a party on 7% dictate that a party on 13% couldn’t be part of govt inside cabinet?

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    That’s actually not quite as bad as the 2005 situation, weka! Back then, NZF and UF would not support the Greens getting any kind of cabinet posting at all. For mine, I’m not fussed. Probably the same for the Greens, too. They know they will get more policy wins under a Labour led Government, in it or out of it, so it’s in their interest to give C&S.

                    It would be a shame, because the Greens are ready for leadership roles, but getting Key gone is the immediate issue.

              • i agree with trp..

                ..i have written/warned of the dangers of a vote for peters..

                ..and i stand by all that..

                ..but the reality is that he is there..and he will likely hold the balance of power..

                ..but weighing up all the various factors/imperatives leads me to the conclusion that i wd be very surprised if he decided to prop up this corrupt/mass-surveilling aberration of the party he once belonged to..

                • weka

                  great, so he will screw over the GP instead. Can’t wait until the man is gone, MMP will function so much better without him

    • Colonial Viper 45.2

      I think Key is going to try a dodgy constitutional wag the dog trick with his mate Jerry Mateparae.

  45. Inky 46

    HERALD: John Key ‘comfortable’ that NSA is not spying on NZ

    Comfortable? He must be perched on a cushion the size of the Beehive..

  46. North 48

    X-Key-Whore-At-The-White-House-Door.

    Fuck-Off-New-Zealand !

    That’s what it means.

  47. One Anonymous Bloke 49

    Half time. A theatre worthy of Fauxnews.

  48. cunnliffe has done ok in the final debate..

  49. Rodel 51

    Watching the Cunliffe Key debate. Cunliffe is knowledgeable and competent.
    Key full of cliches (‘What I do know…I can say this… the point is…at the end of the day…”.)and a typical money trader…Good at gambling a profit for himself but couldn’t pass economics 101 ( or even high school home economics )

    • karol 51.1

      I didn’t watch. Have been reading the tweets. Couldn’t face watching any more of the liar bambozzler in chief.

      • Anne 51.1.1

        My gripe: Cunliffe’s voice was not clear enough in the final lap. He seemed to be talking almost inwardly which made his voice come across as muffled. I kept yelling at him (from the sofa) to speak more clearly but he took no notice. 😡

  50. tricle up 52

    Put yourself in a foreign country without a passport subject to vindictive and subjective innuendo i to would be peeved and slag the natural inhabitant off …..KDC is not all bad nor is he all good he is just a natural human being, who has contributed and his interests are in part shared for change…..I sincerely hope the Scots are left to exercise free will away from the emotions behaviors influences and manipulations..

  51. Rodel 53

    Hoskings (gritting my teeth) was pretty good.

    Cunliife -integrity,, intelligent visionary and super sincere. A man of substance.

    Key – less intelligent- lacking vision and mainlining his reptilian insincere cliches.No real substance.

    if there was any substance in anything Key said, could the right wingers elucidate? I know I’m biased but was there any sincerity or integrity in Key’s “performance”?

  52. gobsmacked 54

    The Hosking – Key – Cunliffe debate was a waste of time.

    FFS, if Hosking starts asking about polls and predictions for election night, the answer is not to play his game.

    “The people hire, the people fire, the people are in charge on September 20 – not you Mike, not the commentators, but the people. And that’s a great day for democracy Wouldn’t you agree?”

    There’s a bunch of votes right there. But sadly … we just got same old insider to insider talk, and the (dwindling) audience wouldn’t have cared.

  53. now..we all know what a pile of putrescent-crap three degrees is..

    ..2nite they did their hatchet-job on dotcom..

    ..pathetic..

    ..that was it..?

    ..no kitten-murdering..?

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    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    4 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    4 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    7 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
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    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
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    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
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    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
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    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    1 week ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    2 weeks ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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