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Open Mike 18/11/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 18th, 2016 - 60 comments
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60 comments on “Open Mike 18/11/2016 ”

  1. Wairua 1

    Serious questions should be raised whether taxpayer funding NZ troops at Camp Taji would be better applied to local earthquake relief. One threat – virtual, the other – real.

    • Clump_AKA Sam 1.1

      Rather than funding a company seized response team on 24 hour call it’s done on a voluntary bases where individual members can apply to there commander, for the day off, to join domestic humanitarian and search and rescue efforts.

    • save nz 1.2

      +1 propping up an illegal war and a F*&*ed up one at that

      Clearly a waste of time for a million reasons but even if you were a Hawk – the US can’t even be bothered with getting basic inventory so they could be effective. Plus running it from a school???


    • Puckish Rogue 1.3

      Not really, the troops at Camp Taji are already funded through the defence budget so its not like its taking money away EQC (or whatever agency will be dealing with this)

      Then it starts a slippery slope kind of thing…like some people will agree with this because they disagree with the kiwis being over there and fair enough

      Some kiwis will then go we spend 29 billion ( or whatever it is) a year on welfare so lets spend some of that on earthquake relief

      Or I could be completely wrong

      • save nz 1.3.1

        The defence budget is just a waste of money. It’s cash for cronies. Whenever NZ needs anything for defence it is revealed that the 757’s or what have you haven’t been maintained and are sitting somewhere broken down or the frigates are unstable in high seas etc etc.

        Face it, we are better to sent in some cow poos as biological weapons and some suicide sheep bombers as our effort than the cash for cronies deals and then spend the rest on educating our population so we don’t turn into the US a basket case that can’t even respond to Cyclone Katrina as they are too busy assassinating people with drones around the world.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Well that is certainly another way at looking at things and I’m sure there are some ideas in there that could be valid

          • save nz

            The biggest threats both economically and fatality related in NZ are disaster related, earthquakes, land slides, floods and so forth.

            Think how many disasters Kiwis have endured from the last 5 years vs terrorists attacks.

            It’s cheaper and easier in NZ to buy land in NZ than invade it so I don’t think we need to worry about a Pearl Harbour – and even if it happened we would not be able to stop it with a couple of planes and a frigate out of order. Most Kiwis are more worried about not being able to afford to live in this country anymore, with good reason that is more of a real threat than anything else at present.

            The type of weapons NZ defense are buying are old school and not going to work. The Brits found when fighting with Maori… you can come here, but you can’t win a war. That is why we got the Treaty of Waitangi. And why invaders will never win Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth.

            People’s resistance are more of a weapon than weapons, when it comes down to it.

            Traditional war is probably over. And the TPPA & TISA which is the new type of social weapon against ordinary people has been defeated for now.

            • Clump_AKA Sam

              1 ton (defence minister brownlee) announced the defence budget will be 1%GDP so that’s no more than 1.4 billion a year until maybe 2030 or another government changes that. That means defence will have to shrink a bit.

              The frigate replacement will definitely have to be smaller than the 3000 ton Anzacs, if not in over all wieght the crew will be smaller, skilled seaman are super expensive, and the budget won’t be able to support the number of staff we have now so numbers will fall, or hours worked, or a combination.

              It’s a really bad time to join a service right now. All the cash is going to the intelligence sector.

              • save nz

                “It’s a really bad time to join a service right now. All the cash is going to the intelligence sector.”

                Well, we put all our intelligence eggs in one basket with 5 eyes. But no one thought about what a change of government might do to that relationship.

                I mean if a certain orange haired senior has a senior moment and starts a war with the world….

                Or Nigel Farage takes over and sets up the New Nazi moment in the UK…

                see any potential issues that Kiwis might be uncomfortable with as our mass data collected gets off shored off?

                Or does our government go Rah Rah, united we fight for friends no matter what they believe in, like in Iraq and Afghanistan.

                • Clump_AKA Sam

                  The Americans under Bush opened up a can of worms when they unleashed stuxnet on Iranian nuclear felicities, destroying 6000 centrifuges with a computer bug. That attack was as powerful than a conventional attack from the air, forensically it was untraceable except for the Wikileaks. So no one can really point a finger and say it was you with any evidence. But it’s a Pandora’s box similar to what submarines did to naval warfare. No we have to spend treasure defending cyber attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

                  There’s so much work that needs to be done note just in the defence space but right across government services and it’s mind boggling the government is trying to cut spending

              • alwyn

                I think you will find your estimates regarding GDP are very out of date.
                The current New Zealand GDP is about $250 billion and therefore 1% would be around $2.5 billion/year. It is a long, long time since we were on $140 billion

            • Puckish Rogue

              I appreciate your comments and while I disagree with most of what you say I’m interested in what you say, as someone who workisn in logistics could you elaborate on this statement please:

              “The type of weapons NZ defense are buying are old school and not going to work.”

            • McFlock

              Well, I reckon I disagree with almost your entire comment, which is a new one for you 🙂

              Firstly, climate change will make our land pretty desireable. Yes we sell it easily, but then that transitions into sending “advisors” to protect property rights, and maybe have a staging base for antarctic access. Then there’s some point where we draw a line in the sand, and have to make it more expensive to take us than to negotiate.

              Dunno about the old-school weapons, so won’t comment on that.

              As for why we got te Tiriti, it was mostly because of the French. Both in immediate geopolitical terms, and Rousseau. British racism called for negotiation with Maori, rather than just declaring the land empty like Australia (a lot of it has to do with land use and permanent structures). But that doesn’t mean they had to keep with the ToW, as the subsequent wars demonstrated (and the British won).

              “Traditional” war is just getting started, imo. For every assymetric or nuclear encounter, there’ll be some measure of conventional engagement – e.g. Somalia, Darfur, Syria, Ukraine, Colombia…

              • Clump_AKA Sam

                Threats to New Zealands standards of living come from the sea, because 100% of trade is transmitted via sea, goods & services, money, communications, the best we can hope to cover these vital links is 6 months a year, 3 months if anything goes under maintenance.

                The Future Air Surveillance Capability, Future Air Mobility Capability, and Future Surface Combatant projects are the next big ticket items. We’re dropping those inshore patrol vessels and picking up one larger patrol vessel. I’m not sure how you would do all this differently, because production lines open and close, and once closed we’d have to spend 60 billion because New Zealand dosnt have the economy to produce these big ticket items.

  2. save nz 2

    Ending poverty could be this simple…

    “We tend to think that simply giving people money makes them lazy. Yet a wealth of scientific research proves the contrary: free money helps. It is time for a radical reform of the welfare state.
    Why we should give free money to everyone”


  3. Cinny 3

    I wonder how much time and money Hekia has wasted with her flip flop decisions? How much money she was wasted that could have gone into helping the education system?
    It’s pretty basic really, consult the teachers then come up with the ideas, not the other way around.


    • dv 3.1

      Parata said the current funding system was “riddled with complexities”.

      AND yet she proposes

      A funding model

      using about 19 indicators relating to each child, including how old the mother was at their birth, how many siblings the child has, parental income, father’s offending history, and the child’s ethnicity.

      • Giving extra money to small and isolated schools to ensure they survive as rolls drop.

      • Changing how private schools are funded by giving them a per-child subsidy, a move that would likely provide more public money.

      • Only paying schools maintenance money if they prove they have carried out basic jobs such as clearing gutters and painting buildings. Parata said that came after some schools hadn’t used maintenance money appropriately.

      • The ministry is working with energy providers to get usage data. Schools which cut heating bills would retain a portion of the savings to encourage energy efficiency.

      That certainly sounds really simple!!!!!

      • Cinny 3.1.1

        Her ‘funding model’ is super messed up DV. Am fully looking forward to her departure, hopefully before she does any more damage with her impractical ideas.

        I wonder which schools ‘hadn’t used maintenance money appropriately’ and why.

        Lolz ministry working with energy providers to get usage data. Dang schools should all be fitted with solar, and other alternative forms of energy. I wonder how many un-insulated classrooms there are? It’s a small investment to make for massive gains. Kids could do an alternative energy project to coincide with their schools alternative energy being installed. Heaven forbid any of the children come up with their own ideas for free energy and change the world as a result of it, wait, power companies won’t like that… oh what to do what to do.

        Some of the country schools here have fires in all the classrooms, working bee’s are done to collect wood, at times utilizing trees already on the school property. Forestry are helpful too. All of that so kids can get a good education because the ministry under funds schools and over inflates classrooms.

        Oldies in the region often knit and donate these little slipper socks to all the kids, keeping their toes warm in the winter while they learn. It’s the little things like that which make a huge difference, things the ministry would rather not fund. Warm healthy kids will learn more and our society will fully benefit from that knowledge in the future. Lunch should also be part of school funding, feed the kids and watch them thrive.

        Buggered if i know why the outgoing government under prioritises education, the stupid it hurts.

        There is so much talent from Hipkins, Delahunty, Hughes, Tracey Martin, Sepuloni, Ardern, Robertson. Am very excited about the positive changes coming to our country next year.

      • Siobhan 3.1.2

        “Schools will not get a general increase to operations funding to cover inflation. Instead, schools will get $92 in extra funding for each student from a long-term, welfare-dependent background.”
        …I do not see how these two issues are connected.
        Surely the $92.00 extra funding would be used for (hold your hat on ‘cos it’s pretty life changing stuff!!), four hours of teacher aid, or two school text books, or an extra ball for the PE class..things to engage/help the under achiever.

        How does that cover inflation?? Is this in fact a cut???

        • Cinny

          Sounds like a cut to me, inflation should always be covered.

          So Hekia believes that a child from a long-term welfare dependent background needs extra funding? That disturbs me, pigeon holing a child from the get go. Jeepers said welfare child could be a high achiever with fantastic mental health, where as maybe the child from a wealthy background is autistic or has other troubles.

          If all schools had enough funding they wouldn’t have to pigeon hole kids, making those kids feel like they have been given the ‘poor’ label, way to go for improving their self esteem. Not.

    • Muttonbird 3.2

      Another victory for workers and defeat for the government. It can be done.

      • Cinny 3.2.1

        Yes, yes Muttonbird 🙂
        Unions are a crucial factor in making sure voices are heard. The teachers union is outstanding in this instance, love the teachers and their supporters, teachers are so very very important to society.

  4. Muttonbird 4

    Stats NZ finally moves on something resembling a measure of real peoples living costs, revealing what has always been know but smugly denied by poverty deniers – rising inequality.

    The HLPIs paint a picture of widening inequality over the past eight years.


    Expect Stats NZ to be punished for this this betrayal.

  5. Wairua 5

    Wellington has already suffered more damage in the last 24 hours than the Japanese achieved with submarine-launched overflights during World War Two.


  6. ScottGN 6

    So Todd Barclay our pretty lacklustre backbench govt MP has launched an online petition to get NZTA to double lane less than 500 metres of roadway in Queenstown to solve a congestion problem at Terrace Junction roundabout that’s already being addressed with the construction of the SH6 bypass around the airport.
    Welcome to election year!

  7. The Chairman 7

    There’s no excuse not to be prepared for more big quakes

    There is still a 95 per cent chance of up to seven quakes of between magnitude 6 and 6.9.

    There is a 30 per cent chance of another quake of between magnitude 7.0 to 7.8, centred somewhere between Christchurch in the south and the Kapiti Coast and Wairarapa in the north.

    An even more worrying scenario, which fortunately has less than a 1 per cent chance of happening, is the small possibility of a quake of greater than magnitude 8 occurring somewhere on the Pacific-Australia plate boundary.


  8. Kevin 9


    After the shambles over warning sirens in Napier on the night of the earthquake, I think this is necessary and, for once, pleased that Jerry Brownlee has got straight on to it.

    There needs to be a national standard that all local authorities must comply with.

    My two cents worth:

    1. GEONET must be a 24/7 operation. NZ is one of the most seismically active areas in the world and it seems crazy that you have to get people out of bed to review information before issuing a tsunami warning.

    2. Coastal areas should have evacuation plans that the population know about. For example in Napier, depending on what suburb you live in, there should be a preferred evacuation route to higher ground. This should be co-ordinated with CD staff and police at crucial intersections.

    3. Text message early warning, like Japan has. This was credited with the relatively low loss of life in the Tohoku tsunami in 2011. Their system also automatically puts warnings up on TV and I think radio.

    4. Work out exactly what the role of the bloody sirens is!! The confusion over this could have lead to a large loss of life if the tsunami event was a major one like we have seen in Japan and Indonesia.

  9. Cinny 10

    MEDIA.. come on do your job, some investigative reporting, we both know there is so much more to this story than was initially told, mhmm scandal, scandal, scandal.

    Please media this requires so much more investigating, or have any staff members involved departed offshore to avoid media questions… if so why?


  10. The Chairman 11

    Wellington City Council are extremely lucky not to have blood on their hands.

    After recent news reports, it’s clear Wellington City Council welcomed citizens back into the city far too early.

    Buildings have not been fully checked, with new damage being discovered daily.

    There have even been reports that buildings which were initially cleared were now assessed to be at risk.

    NZTA reported on Wednesday their assessment has confirmed that all structures along the Wellington motorway have retained their structural integrity. Yet, citizens were welcomed back into the city on Tuesday.

    Were the roads fully checked and cleared before citizens were welcomed back into the city?

    Additionally, along with ongoing shakes, Wellington was warned of a oncoming storm (which went on to cause havoc) yet citizens were still welcomed back into the city.

    To date, people have been residing in, working in and traveling pass buildings that are now considered at great risk.

    We are so lucky no one has been harmed.

    Wellington City Council, you need to up your bloody game!

    • The Chairman 11.1

      I see the Government distance themselves from it, saying Wellington’s state of civil emergency was a local one, “completely in the hands of the local area, and run out of the city council”.

      Meanwhile, Wellington Mayor Justin Lester has defended the steps his council has taken.

  11. Red Hand 12

    Recently released NZ Government Defence Capability Plan.


    Perhaps add an enhanced NZ Civil Defence capability to this – say a unit of personnel transport helicopters on permanent standby ?

    • Puckish Rogue 12.1

      Probably quite expensive to set up to run but maybe:

      Expand the air force to other parts of the country specifically helicopter sqns possibly running in conjunction with established air fields

      Contract civilian helicopter services to provide this service in remote areas or in some cases formalise what’s already happening

      I’m sure others with greater experience in this area could come up with something better then I could

      • Clump_AKA Sam 12.1.1

        Submissions were made on this white paper by professionals that expanded on what you two are talking about in detail. Obviously the will to spend treasure simply isn’t there.

        This DWP is a real kick in the teeth to all those who thought this government was serious about maintaining defence spending at 2%GDP

        • Puckish Rogue

          We should be at 2% of GDP that’s for sure but I’d like to see a smarter use of it, the new weapons systems for the army is a good start though

          • Sacha

            Why should NZ spend a 50th of our public funds on a relatively insignificant and ineffective military?

            Emergency response, sure. We could be that for the whole Pacific.

            Rather spend on developing climate response innovation, though we’re behind rather than in front on that now.

            • Clump_AKA Sam

              Because the defence force is the only organisation allowed to use technology not available to civilian organisations such as night vision/some electro optics/petabyte hardrives/military spec aircraft are also built to different specs, not available to civi’s. Government organisations also have statutory Aurthority to commondare land for disaster relief.

              Government requires NZDF to have a power to weight ratio above what is publicly available to tuck away a bit of performance for times when performance drops. So there isn’t a profitable model for search and rescue unless you want people to pay a door fee every time they step on an NH90. Further NZDF is the only organisation responsible for humanitarian and disaster relief missions in war zones, including on oceans.

              Even if you were to disband NZDF in favour of civilian organisations the initial costs would be huge but the annual costs will remain the same at best, because civilian organisations will use less powerful technology.

  12. adam 13

    Fun map. The worlds countries if they were done on population.

    I had a bit of a hard time trying to find New Zealand.


  13. Rosemary McDonald 14

    Update of the Havelock North Screaming Shits outbreak.


    “Charges have been laid by the Hawke’s Bay Regional Council against a party for alleged offences uncovered in the course of its investigation into the contamination of Havelock North drinking water.

    The council could not legally name the party until they had appeared in court, and had the opportunity to seek name suppression.

    The council had undertaken an extensive investigation into the source of the contamination and the condition of water supply bores in the area in accordance with its statutory responsibilities under the Resource Management Act.

    During this investigation the council found evidence of a breach of the maintenance conditions of the party’s resource consent.”

    AND…from the same part of the rohe…good news…


    “A piece of coastal paradise will remain forever in public hands after a 2ha section of beachfront land was bought by the Napier and Hastings city councils and the Hawke’s Bay Regional Council.

    The councils each contributed $300,000 to the purchase of the Waipatiki Beach Holiday Park, buying the land, buildings and business, with the ownership sitting with the regional council.

    A lease of the camping business will ensure it continues as a favourite camping spot and pays for its own costs and a clause means the land can never be sold into private hands.

    “Unless councils or other organisations across New Zealand put their hands up, there will come a time when very special pieces of land like this will be out of the public’s reach”.

    He said the Perrys could not be thanked enough for agreeing to participate in a public purchase process to ensure the land remained available to residents and visitors. It had taken more than five years for the process to get to this point.”

    🙂 🙂

    • Bill 14.1

      The council could not legally name the party until they had appeared in court, and had the opportunity to seek name suppression.

      Really? I mean, if name suppression was the norm and the courts had to be asked to allow a name or whatever to go into the public domain, then that’d make sense (though be wholly unacceptable).

      But since it’s the norm for names or whatever to be in the public domain and for requests to be made to prevent that or stop that…

      • Rosemary McDonald 14.1.1


        ‘Hawke’s Bay Regional Council has laid charges against Hastings District Council for alleged offences uncovered in the course of its investigation into the contamination of Havelock North drinking water.

        The charges were laid after the regional council investigated the source of the contamination that resulted in more than 5000 people getting sick, and the condition of water supply bores in the area.

        The regional council said that ​during its investigations it found evidence of a breach of the maintenance conditions of the district council’s resource consent.

        If a breach was proved, the resource consent no longer permitted the taking of water. The regional council commenced the prosecution, alleging the unlawful taking of water from the aquifer arising from the alleged failure to meet well head maintenance conditions.”

        Lawrence Yule, Mayor of the Hastings District ,is not happy at being charged before the inquiry has even started.

    • Kevin 14.2

      No wonder HDC were not keen on any outside help.

      I would think there has a been a shit load of arse-covering going on since the outbreak.

  14. adam 15

    Now this is interesting. Around 70% of those polled want a independent fisheries management inquiry.


  15. Stunned Mullet 16

    Looks like David Farrar will be taking a break from blogging and the politcal polling dark arts for a while.


    • b waghorn 17.1

      yes that put a downer on my friday, enjoy life and hope for the best is all that’s left for us minions.

  16. weka 18

    [In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all discussion, comments, link postings etc about the US election under one of the posts about the Election – weka]

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  • Driving ahead with the Clean Car Standard
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  • Speech to Constitutional Kōrero conference
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  • Further sanctions on the political and economic elites of Russia and Belarus
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  • Speech to Aotearoa Refugee Hui
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  • Defence Minister visits Ukraine and Poland
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  • Stuart Nash to attend OECD meetings
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  • Speech to the Asia New Zealand Foundation
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