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Open Mike 19/04/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 19th, 2017 - 80 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

80 comments on “Open Mike 19/04/2017 ”

  1. Secrecy over VIP political figure’s visit –Queenstown/Arrowtown? Todd Barclay?

  2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

    Agora Financial is heavily promoting Pot Stocks…apparently Marijuana is about to cause a massive boom in the US economy.

    It will be interesting to see what effects this has over here.

  3. One Anonymous Bloke 3

    Where’s that whinging conspiracy theorist Ian when you need him? Always bleating on about the Selwyn River and how nobody reports that it’s flowing again.

    Well Ian, you can stop wailing, because now someone has.

    But oops! What’s this right there in the article?

    Record low flows this summer had been caused by two things – the most significant being the three very dry winters Canterbury had experienced in the last three years, meaning there had been little ground water recharge across the Canterbury Plains.

    The second was irrigation, which accounted for about 15 to 20 per cent of the flows in all groundwater fed streams, [Environment Canterbury chief scientist Dr Tim] Davie said.

    My bold.

    I guess Ian will have to keep on playing the victim.

  4. Tamati Tautuhi 4

    Yep heard the Selwyn River is flowing again, only took two Cyclones?

  5. dukeofurl 5

    US carrier Carl Vinson that was supposed to be heading to coast off North Korea was heading in other Direction

    “Aircraft Carrier Wasn’t Sailing to Deter North Korea, as U.S. Suggested
    ..Carl Vinson, and the four other warships in its strike force were at that very moment sailing in the opposite direction, to take part in joint exercises with the Australian Navy in the Indian Ocean, 3,500 miles southwest of the Korean Peninsula.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/18/world/asia/aircraft-carrier-north-korea-carl-vinson.html?_r=0

    More Trump fake news

  6. The Chairman 6

    I see Little is calling for “a bit of a breather” when it comes to immigration.

    But what does that actually mean exactly? Where is their policy?

    It’s extremely difficult for voters to take Labour seriously when they fail to have alternative policy.

    • Tamati Tautuhi 6.1

      Just the left wing of the same bird chirping to the faithful?

      • The Chairman 6.1.1

        The rhetoric will resonate with a number. But without policy behind it, it means little.

    • joe90 6.2

      Just for you, in a sippy cup……

      /

      Labour’s immigration policy will focus foremost on whether the number of people entering New Zealand on work visas can be cut, and those positions filled by locals, leader Andrew Little says.

      http://www.interest.co.nz/news/87017/labours-immigration-policy-focus-foremost-whether-people-entering-nz-work-visas-can-be

      • The Chairman 6.2.1

        That’s just a report and more rhetoric lacking full details. Where is their actual policy?

        • dukeofurl 6.2.1.1

          Its election year. These things are usually staged at appropriate times for full policy launch.
          Dont want national stealing it do we ?

          Were you thinking of voting 6 months early then ?

          • The Chairman 6.2.1.1.1

            “Were you thinking of voting 6 months early then?”

            No, don’t be silly. It’s not about that, it’s about Labour being able to effectively challenge the Government while giving voters time to adsorb it.

            “Don’t want national stealing it do we?”

            Nothing wrong with Labour dragging National to the Left. Moreover, as I stated to Anne, National can decide to adopt (or implement a version of) Labour’s policy at any given time, hence that argument (keeping their powder dry) doesn’t stack up.

    • Anne 6.3

      …difficult for voters to take Labour seriously when they fail to have alternative policy.

      Hey Chairman you know why. Labour is between a rock and a hard place when it comes to revealing policy detail. Release it too soon and the Nats implement a version of them and the public in their infinite wisdom (?) give them the credit. Release it too late (and too complicated) and the public don’t have time to absorb what it means. The latter happened in 2014.

      The answer? Hang on until after the budget then keep it simple!

      They have been working on policy detail for the past two years. My pick is: they will start releasing those details from later next month.

      • The Chairman 6.3.1

        Hi Anne.

        Not having policy makes any attempt of Labour challenging the Government look pathetic. One of the first questions asked will be what are Labour going to do differently?

        Sorry, but National can decide to adopt (or implement a version of) Labour’s policy at any given time, hence that argument doesn’t stack up.

        As for the argument that voters were unable to absorb all of their policies last time, it further highlights why they should be putting them out now, giving voters time to digest them.

        However, from the discussions I’ve had, it was more of a case of voters not liking them opposed to not understanding them. Which, of course, led to Little dropping a number of them.

        This limited approach to policy suggests Labour don’t want to scare voters off again. The problem is, if they don’t have confidence in them, they can’t expect voters too.

        • McFlock 6.3.1.1

          Thing is, if it’s released incrementally then it’s really obvious that national is copying each policy as it’s released (otherwise the nats are releasing substantive policy slower than Labour). If nats release a policy then Labour does and the Labour version strikes a chord, then the nats have to reverse their policy to make it labour-lite.

          • The Chairman 6.3.1.1.1

            Whether released incrementally or not, it’s rather obvious if policy has been copied.

            Moreover, if Labour were any slower in releasing policy, the election would be over.

            • McFlock 6.3.1.1.1.1

              Oh bollocks. The campaign period hasn’t even started yet. And it’s a shedload more obvious to say “we released that last week” rather than “well, if you refer to page 25 of the manifesto you might remember we launched in january…”

              Even besides that, releasing policy all at once is a fucking stupid idea – each core sector of policy needs to be campaigned towards the people who value it most, and releasing policy all at once floods people who might be interested in more than one policy. So you release your otago bit of regional development policy while you’re visiting otago, you release your conservation policy talking to a bunch of conservationists at an event important to them, you release your small business policy to a chamber of commerce meeting, and you release your capital gains policy during a prison visit 😛

              Thing is, all of these different policy announcements take time to schedule anyway. Your idea of just putting out a manifesto and being done with it is a fool’s errand.

              • The Chairman

                Oh rubbish. A copy is a copy regardless of when it’s been released. Having it in the manifesto gives them the reference to prove it. So while it may not be fresh in voters minds, it’s easy enough to point to, thus making it obvious to the media and voters it’s been copied.

                And just because it was released last week doesn’t mean National can’t copy it tomorrow.

                I’m not suggesting they release all their policy at once. However, seeing as the election is only months away, holding off put’s them in the position you’ve just decried. Overwhelming voters with a large policy dump just before the election.

                • McFlock

                  Dude, it’s advertising. It works best when it’s fresh. It works best when it’s already in their minds, rather than having to point them to it.

                  I’m not saying release it all in one week – they’re doing it about right. Decent announcements every couple of weeks, and I expect that frequency to increase as the election approaches.

                  • The Chairman

                    Pointing it out to them will freshly put it back into voters minds.

                    Whenever policy is released the media generally seek out the opposition’s take on it, thus giving Labour the opportunity to replant it.

                    The problem is, Labour aren’t making policy announcements every couple of weeks, they’ve only got around 10 announced policies listed on their website.

                    Amongst other things, a number of people I know are concerned about Labour’s compulsory KiwiSaver and their variable savings rate, yet with the election only months away Labour has done nothing to appease this concern. Voters are still unsure if it’s being dropped or not?

                  • The Chairman

                    Unfortunately, it seems we will have to wait. But considering the major change Labour was proposing and the unsettling impact it had on a number of voters, it’s surprising Labour didn’t pick up on it and put the concern to rest. As they did with lifting the retirement age.

                    A number were taken back by the fact Labour were going to hand control of the variable saving rate to the Reserve Bank and were concerned about the uncertainty the variable savings rate posed. Which, with no ceiling (as they last proposed) could potentially hit low income earners hard.

        • Sacha 6.3.1.2

          And here’s the govt doing exactly what people have been saying – gazumping Labour on immigration policy because they can: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11840831

          • BM 6.3.1.2.1

            Labour doesn’t have an immigration policy, how do you gazump something that doesn’t exist?

            • Sabine 6.3.1.2.1.1

              Whats Nationals policy on immigration?

            • Sacha 6.3.1.2.1.2

              Labour has been talking about immigration in media in recent days. Not everything needs to be written in a manifesto, comrade.

              • BM

                Talking about immigration is not policy.

                Once I see it in the announced policies section of the Labour website I’ll consider it Labour policy until then it’s just a few thoughts which may/may not be acted upon.

                • The Chairman

                  Exactly.

                • Sacha

                  And people have explained to you why it’s not written there yet.

                  • The Chairman

                    Yes, and their argument doesn’t stack up.

                    Labour have been touting this old line (keeping their powder dry) for years.

                    Is it any wonder they’re trailing in the polls? How can one say they are going to vote Labour when one doesn’t know what their policies are?

                    A number of voters don’t trust Labour, and they trust them even less when they don’t know what their policies are.

              • The Chairman

                Yes, Labour have been talking about it and they announced they are not prepared to place a cap on immigration while also calling for “a bit of a breather”, thus it looks like they are trying to have a quid each way.

                Voters require to know their policy position, rhetoric means little.

                What will this bit of a breather mean? How will it be achieved?

            • The Chairman 6.3.1.2.1.3

              “Labour doesn’t have an immigration policy, how do you gazump something that doesn’t exist?”

              Indeed.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.4

      But what does that actually mean exactly?

      Well, hopefully they’re talking about a moratorium of at least five years. That, IMO, would be the minimum needed to sort out some of the issues regarding housing and infrastructure.

      • The Chairman 6.4.1

        It is highly unlikely Labour would put in place a moratorium. Their focus seems to be on reducing work visas. But without any policy in place, we don’t actually know.

        Polls indicate a good number of voters want to reduce immigration, but as Labour are unwilling to put a cap in place, it seems they are once again on the wrong side of public opinion.

  7. greywarshark 7

    Someone experienced, thoughtful and successful with economic policies for the good of the country. Was on Radionz yesterday.

    business economy
    18 Apr 2017
    “The financial system is designed the wrong way”
    From Nine To Noon, 10:13 am on 18 April 2017
    Listen duration 19′ :56″
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201840650

    Lynn Freeman meets nobel laureate Muhammud Yunus, known around the world as the grandfather of social business and microfinance. He says entrepreneurship is in our dna, and the financial system doesn’t work to support those who want to start a business.

    Professor Yunus founded the Grameen Bank in the 1970s, giving tiny loans of $30 or $40, often to poor, illiterate women. The bank has 9 million borrowers with a repayment rate of almost 100%.

  8. greywarshark 8

    Someone experienced, thoughtful and successful with economic policies for the good of the country. Was on Radionz yesterday.

    business economy
    18 Apr 2017
    “The financial system is designed the wrong way”
    From Nine To Noon, 10:13 am on 18 April 2017
    Listen duration 19′ :56″
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201840650

    Lynn Freeman meets Nobel Laureate Muhammud Yunus, known around the world as the grandfather of social business and microfinance. He says entrepreneurship is in our dna, and the financial system doesn’t work to support those who want to start a business.

    Professor Yunus founded the Grameen Bank in the 1970s, giving tiny loans of $30 or $40, often to poor, illiterate women. The bank has 9 million borrowers with a repayment rate of almost 100%.

    He spoke on April 10 in Auckland at AUT University.
    Details:
    https://www.eventfinda.co.nz/2017/professor-muhammad-yunus-public-dialogue/auckland
    The Aera Foundation is bringing the grandfather of social business and microfinance, Nobel Laureate Professor Muhammad Yunus, is visiting New Zealand for the first time. A groundbreaking social entrepreneur, economist, and global thinker, Professor Muhammad Yunus pioneered the concept of microcredit when he founded the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh.

    There is a link to the Aera Foundation if you want to learn more about them.

  9. greywarshark 9

    Ten green bottles hanging on the wall. If one green bottle should deliberately be stolen or fouled then …..

    Listen duration 4′ :54″
    Scientists say man made climate change has led to a river disappearing in Canada.

  10. greywarshark 10

    Radionz
    housing
    9:36 am today

    Cohousing: the solution to a crisis?
    From Nine To Noon, 9:36 am today
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201840650
    Listen duration 13′ :56″

    As policy makers puzzle over how to increase the supply of housing around the country a group of people in Dunedin think they’ve found a novel solution. The group are hoping to build New Zealand’s second ever co-housing community on the site of an old primary school in High Street. Kathryn Ryan talks to the head of the project, Catherine Spencer

  11. joe90 11

    Corrupt AF.

    A Chilean billionaire whose company is behind a mine opposed by treaty tribes is renting a million-dollar home to the daughter of President Donald Trump.

    Ivanka Trump and her husband, Jared Kushner, both work at the White House. They are in a position to influence the administration’s position on a mining development in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, which falls within Ojibwe treaty territory in Minnesota, independent journalist Mary Annette Pember reported on Indian Country Media Network.

    But the White House told The Wall Street Journal that the connection between the couple and mining magnate Andrónico Luksic is coincidence. He purchased the $5.5 million mansion in the Kalorama neighborhood of Washington, D.C., after the November election and agreed to rent it to Trump and Kushner for $15,500 a month, the paper reported.

    “That’s a terrible investment,” Joshua Adler, who owns multiple properties in the wealthy neighborhood, told The Journal. He said the Trump-Kushner family is “getting use of a $5.5 million home for far less than it normally costs to have a home of that value.”

    The Obama administration put a halt to the Twin Metals mine development in December, citing threats to the environment. Luksic’s firm is suing the federal government in hopes of overturning the decision.

    https://www.indianz.com/News/2017/04/18/foreign-billionaire-behind-mine-opposed.asp

    https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/politics/trump-kushner-townhouse-deal-magnate/

  12. fisiani 12

    Since Chicken announced “No New Taxes” No qualification was given. No Ifs and no buts. National have now brought in Pay Equity that will cost $2,000,000,000 and will have further ramifications in the public and private sector. The budget will also bring new spending in Health and Education as always. Without increased taxes or borrowing I cannot understand how Chicken could keep such a pledge. Stephen Joyce will flatten Robbo’s unbelievable figures in the campaign. Why are Labour committed to NO new Taxes.

    • McFlock 12.1

      link pls because I think you’re lying.

      I think what Little actually said was

      We’re not planning on raising taxes and we’re going to see what the Government talks about, you know, in its tax changes that it’s foreshadowed, but we are making no plan for lifting taxes.

      and We are not planning on any tax changes for the 2017 election. We will finely calibrate what we do once we see what the Government does in its foreshadowed tax changes, which we assume will be in this year’s budget, but who knows?

      So, no changes planned, based on current situation and contingent on what the budget is this year, which doevetails nicely with the fact that Labour said around the same time that it was going to review and possibly completely overhaul the tax system when it gets elected. So hardly “no new taxes”, you lying piece of crapulence.

      • Fisiani 12.1.1

        So are you saying that there will be huge tax increases under a Labour government

        • McFlock 12.1.1.1

          No, I’m saying you lied when you said “Chicken announced “No New Taxes” No qualification was given”. Put up or shut up, fuckball.

          • Alan 12.1.1.1.1

            charming, winning kudos for the left again

            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Well, when all you have to defend an outright lie is a tone argument, you can fuck off, too.

              I’ve never understood the mentality that is content to receive a tax cut while children go to hospital with third world conditions but blushes whenever someone says a rude word.

          • Fisiani 12.1.1.1.2

            We’re not planning on raising taxes is the same as No New Taxes which is of course a lie.

            • KJT 12.1.1.1.2.1

              Like. “We will not raise GST”. Eh!e

            • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.1.2.2

              No it’s not you liar.

              Not Planning To means that, due to circumstances such as National lying about the state of the economy, plans can change.

              No New Taxes means that, even if circumstances are dire, they won’t add any new taxes.

              But you already knew that because it’s been explained to you several times.

            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.2.3

              No they’re not the same, and besides “We will finely calibrate what we do once we see what the Government does in its foreshadowed tax changes, which we assume will be in this year’s budget, but who knows?” is an absolutely explicit qualification.

              You’re a lying piece of shit who owes Labour and Little an apology. Frankly, you owe humanity an apology for giving us all a bad rap.

  13. ropata 13

    The great ‘living within our means’ con: Why you’re more in debt than ever
    Governments have always set the rules where money is concerned. The greatest lie ever sold is that the Australian Government can run out of Australian dollars.

    But the Govt cannot run out of money…[so]when it saves instead of spending…we as individuals…run out of cash. https://t.co/2vNn18FIpo— NewZealandEconomics (@economicsNZ) April 19, 2017

    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      Thing ism there is a necessity to live within our means but it’s the limited physical resources that need to be saved and reused. Money is nothing and is always created ex nihilo.

  14. greywarshark 14

    Your daily laugh? Think of our two main political parties. I wish they would put an effort into competing like these two – from a long ago time.
    Anything you can do i can do better.

  15. McFlock 15

    lol forgot I’d restarted my machine. Replies in moderation. One day I”ll learn…

  16. Peggy 16

    This has been building for a while now, but there are stories appearing daily like this and not just in the Daily Mail:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4423238/New-Met-chief-Dick-says-diversity-heart-role.html

    I notice that Paula Bennett and Judith Collins love to push these sorts of stories.

    Personally I don’t care whether it is a lesbian or a heterosexual who is hitting me with a truncheon, I just don’t want to be beaten thanks.

    Equality is when there is both a boot and a high heel in your face?

    Also, on the Spinoff…. an article claiming that the National Party is Feminist – that even Bill English is.

    I have long suspected that there is a campaign by Mi6 and others to push “diversity” and feminism for selfish anterior reasons. But it is more likely a cultural trend being pushed by those that benefit from it. Bennett etc push it because they are women, so essentially as a backhand compliment.

    Nobody is going to object, because they will be pegged (no pun intended) as a male threatened with emasculation. But strategically it is quite clever. Take the left’s ground, or what’s left of it: few argue for the other once-were-precepts of the left.

    If National succeeds, along wither the Police and other authorities, what reason might people have to vote Labour or the Greens, parties whose vocal membership often focuses mostly on gender and “diversity” issues.

    I would love to think that all sectors of society of all political persuasion internalize feminist principles. Perhaps this cultural shift – or the tail end of it, now all the hard battles are won and it is easy to stand up like some kind of hero without being knocked down – will force the left to focus on other things, such as human welfare more generally and economic inequality? I hope. Thoughts?

    • David Mac 16.1

      I agree Peggy, sideshows have diluted Labour’s message and appeal. Yet the message is as pure and simple as it always has been ‘A fair go for everyone’ but is getting lost in the translation. Fragmented points of difference with the competition and narrow concern pet issues push the lure of ‘all encompassing’ aside.

      I feel it has much to do with why the guy with 2 ladders on the roof of his van doesn’t vote Labour anymore.

      He can won back, he needs to believe that Labour do indeed represent ‘A fair go for everyone. Houses for all of those prepared to make a realistic sacrifice rather than personal wealth generating machines. A new hip for his Mum prior to his attending her funeral.

      I feel that the fair go for each and every one of us message is Labour’s ace card, always has been, it needs tabling, in spades.

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  • Speech to Building Nations 2050 conference
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