Bugger Gosman, I was too slow to open a sweep stake on the Standard as to how long it would take you to mention your beloved Zimmers. Cuba 10 to 1 anybody?
So now Spain’s in the headlines Gosman, it’s a little more difficult for you to argue irresponsible Government spending, given their fiscal prudence leading up to the GFC.
No their problem was a property bubble, who inflates those again? Oh, that’s right, bankers! And where does the responsibility for the GFC lie, oh, that’s right, speculators and bankers. Where was it’s epicenter, oh, that’s right, Wall St.
But I admire you’re faith, it takes an extraordinary effort to achieve such willful blindness, most don’t know cause they ignore – Adam Curtis notes that economics is boring, and so that is why economists manage to get away with such restlessness – but you clearly read about these things….
Spain isn’t exactly a libertarian free market paradise so I’m not sure why you seem to imply the problems are caused just by banks.
Spain has youth unemployment of around 50%. That suggests there is something wrong with their labour market flexibility. Also the problem is not just dodgy banks but the fact that the Central Government hasn’t got an awful lot of control over regional government’s spending.
Great logic Gos, its all the fault of “labour market flexibility”, superb sidestep of an undeniable criticism of globalisation. Sort of “kill them harder and it will all get better”. And what if it were your children?
If it was my kids I’d want to live in a country where the labour market wasn’t so inflexible that they had a one in two chance of being unemployed for a long time. Luckily that is the case.
What’s your solution to the problem of Spanish youth unemployment by the way? More training perchance? If you read that link you will see that many of the youth unemployed are actually highly educated.
What’s your solution to the problem of Spanish youth unemployment by the way?
Less globalisation, eradication of capitalism and a rationalisation of the economy so that it actually does what it’s supposed to – support the people and not just the psychopathic few.
So Gosman, that logic eventually leads you to moving your kids to China or Thailand or Cambodia.
And, don’t we have a balance of payments issue in Europe, and artificially suppressed wages in Germans, the deck you’re playing with is rigged, but then that goes back to the link about the death of Capitalism.
What’s your evidence that Spain’s 50% youth unemployment rate (I’m taking your word for that) is due to labour market inflexibility? (I’m asking for evidence, not assertion of ideological presuppositions.)
An interesting editorial in today’s Guardian on Spain and the Euro crisis: Until the eve of the banking crisis in 2007, Spain’s unemployment rate was 7.9% and Spain had sounder public finances than Germany.
Which brings us to one of the most important yet under-remarked aspects of the euro meltdown. What has been painted as a battle between the virtuous, hardworking north and the lazy, feckless south should instead be depicted as a banking crisis. This is the crucial point made in a new paper published by Manchester’s centre for research on socio-cultural change. Deep Stall, it compares the eurozone collapse with a plane crash and finds one big difference: whereas everyone in the aviation industry – from passengers to planemakers to airlines – has a vested interest in keeping planes up in the air, the banks have no such commitment to keeping the rest of the financial system afloat as long as they get paid out.
The implication is clear: rather than devote efforts to ruining the lives of southern Europeans, a far more effective way to deal with the continent’s crisis would be to restructure the banks, then rein them in for good. The alternative is to trust in austerity for the public and generously allow the banks to “deleverage” and shrink their balance sheets at their own pace. This is exactly the policy that has turned a Greek tragedy into an existential threat to the entire euro.
I heard this morning on Euronews that Mario Monti, the technocrat economist in charge in Italy, is working on labour reform – making it easier to fire people but at the same time make it harder to put people on short-term low wage contracts.
Luigi Spinola, a political and economic analyst in Rome, spoke to euronews about the prospects.
Claudio Rosmino, euronews: Labour reform is the biggest, most dangerous challenge facing the Monti government. What are the key points, the most sensitive points?
Spinola: The labour market is divided in two. You’ve got your stable permanent fulltime contracts on one hand, which offer workers numerous guarantees but which are costly and therefore employers only offer a limited number of these.
And then there’s a parallel work sector with short term contracts, atypical contracts that pay very little and give very few guarantees.
Monti’s challenge is to find a kind of redistribution of rights, in two ways: make it easier to fire people, and make access to work more strict.
I’ll explain this second point, otherwise it might appear paradoxical. It’s really about making it more costly for employers to resort to those atypical, flexible contracts.
Apparently Italy’s firing rules mean that the worker almost always gets the job back if it is legally challenged, meaning employers prefer contract workers.
Interesting take on labour flexibility. The main aim is to make it is easier for workers to get full-time, permanent jobs and reduce short-term contracts because labour market instability is a bad thing.
“and calls Key and English liars despite denials they knew about it. ”
Actually no PG, she said “Liars if they say it’s nothing to do with us”.
Of course this sale is something to do with National – they decided not to get work done in New Zealand, leading to a lack of work at Hillside. Key and English may deny having been told of this sale of state assets, but they cannot deny the link between putting work offshore and an effect locally.
Is a deliberate misquote a lie or incompetence, Pete G?
This Sky City tender just gets worse and worse. If any other ordinary public servant had conducted a tender process so very badly they would be disciplined at the least; quite possibly sacked
What gets me is the absolute hyposcrisy. Helen Clark signs a painting to raise some money for a charity and it’s the crime of the fucking century.
John Key grossly inteferes in a major tender process, playing very lose with the law over a matter that involves hundreds of millions and substantial social harm…. and all that happens in the media is a mild round of tut-tutting.
It’s like a Labour PM has to be pure and holy, while there’s this understanding that we elect National PM’s to be venal and a little bit corrupt.
My summary of the whole saga: the clearest (but by no means only) example we have so far in this government of that nasty old Tory corruption, that uses political power personally linked to big bucks to take more money out of less well off pockets, and put it into better off: and then barefacedly deny they have done anything wrong, or hurt anyone.
That’s most people’s expectations of a Nat govt RL, those with memories of Muldoon would be aghast at the naked corruption and complete arrogance not caring about the wreckage both in NZ and their own part.
Reading gossie etc reminds me of people who would be cheering at a stoning or hanging, what sad trolls. The MSM is not out to do anything therein lies one of the problems.
Shearer’s living wage campaign thingy is brilliant.
It should be made clearer to the public that it is not possible to live on the minimum wage. That we effectively have a wage system that is worse than slavery – at least as a slave you were housed and fed whereas it is not possible to do that on the minimum wage – it needs to be topped up by other taxpayers through various subsidies and handouts like WFF. Effectively the taxpayers are subsidising business.
This should be made clearer.
Of course lifting wages like this would require some heavish adjustments across the economy that would take time and some pain here and there. But the alternative is taxpayers paying for business and wages that one cannot live on. Same amount of money in the economy just spread differently (and its current spread is the result of govt intervention so please no rants that such intervention will distort).
It is actually quite astounding that we have a minimum wage that cannot be survived on. It is a barbaric situation.
Are you suggesting that those on the minimum wage aren’t surviving?
The “living wage” idea potentially has some good points, but it’s very difficult to specify one wage that covers many different circumstances and locations. An eighteen year old living with his parents on a farm in Tuatapere has quite different financial needs to a father of five living in Remuera.
As for the differing circumstances, lets run an anecdotal test right here – hands up all those who could survive in their current circumstances in NZ on the minimum wage. No subsidides, handouts, supplements, WFFs allowed, just the wage.
‘…hands up all those who could survive in their current circumstances in NZ on the minimum wage.’
That is a tautological statement.
Of course the circumstances will change if the income decreases. That is a completely different argument to the one that people are unable to survive on the minimum wage.
So you can survive on minimum wage in this country. You just can’t live in places where the living expenses are greater. Excellent, we have now established that the situation in NZ follows standard economic theory. Do you want to ask us whether we will fall to our deaths if we jump out of plane without a parachute now?
Where’s the evidence that anyone is dying as a result of this?
Lol – you mean you’re once again asking for direct observational evidence of something that is happening right now, when that evidence takes a year or two to collate? Even though the literature in the field strongly indicates that any tory interwebz warrior who argues that the situation does not exist is a bit of a tool?
the situation in NZ follows standard economic theory.
And standard economic theory suggests those who live in cheaper places are living where there are fewer jobs, so will have to move to more expensive places to improve employment options, making the minimum wage much less than a living wage than it was before. Maybe we should have a flexible minimum wage to go with those flexible employment options.
For the record, I couldn’t live on the minimum – a long-term medical condition with a lot of out-of-pocket medical expenses.
Gosman, let me try to put this in terms that – I think – you’ll understand.
There are two ways to ‘survive’ (i.e., to be ‘sustainable’).
The first way is to keep regenerating your ‘capital’ (i.e., your health, your mental resilience, your ability to participate in society, etc.).
The second way is to live off your ‘capital’ (i.e,. your health, your mental resilience, your ability to participate in society, etc.) and so gradually reduce it while you are physically and biologically ‘surviving’ (i.e., physically and biologically continuing or ‘sustaining’ yourself).
People on the minimum wage are most likely ‘surviving’ in the latter rather than the former sense.
Bollocks fair enough VTO. Gos is just being his usual prize arsehole with some rancid economic rationalist argument to justify people not being able to survive in decent conditions. He does not give a fuck so long as he is OK.
Oh right, I forgot, you have selective blindness. Because the evidence on poverty leading to increases in death rates is fairly well established in the health and sociology literature and mentioned here oft…
Sounds as though we now have a growing number of ‘third world disease’ in this country. Some of these leading to death. Pretty sure it’s not the rich suffering from this.
The cause of the higher rates of ‘third world’ diseases can largely be attributed to substandard accomodation. Whether or not someone can survive on minimim wage plays only a very small part in this. That stated I have yet to read an article where mortality has been attributed to ‘third world’ diseases in NZ. Perhaps you can provide a link to something that backs your case up?
So Gos (aka I Am All Right Jack) you say The cause of the higher rates of ‘third world’ diseases can largely be attributed to substandard accommodation… as if this is some absolution from any spurious arguments you have raised prior.
It is easily demonstrable from your statement that according to you this substandard accommodation exists, and that there is a problem. So Gos, do you care?
so if it’s not the wage earner’s fault i guess it’s the landlords for not doing their bit to keep housing standards up, and the landlords are ???? the very investment addicts that gave us the bubbles that inevitably burst, soaking the fruit of community with poison debt that causes them to fall broken upon the ground like scattered weeds, leaving no option than to be sprayed with the stigma of un-met aspirations and covered with the weedmat of bene bashing!
(hyperbole aside, sooner or later gosman you have to face the truth that capitalism is little more than an ouroborus on steroids)
hands up all those who could survive in their current circumstances in NZ on the minimum wage. No subsidides, handouts, supplements, WFFs allowed, just the wage.
I could, but then I am the exception (being on UB at the minute, I’d be better off on minimum wage!) But that just shows the comparative unlivability of the UB!
Also, I am single and a miser by nature… 🙂
“An eighteen year old living with his parents on a farm in Tuatapere has quite different financial needs to a father of five living in Remuera.”
You’re right Pete, a father of five living in Remuera should get less than an imaginary rural teen, because to be there in the first place, and then with five dependents, he’d have few “needs”. Remuera is overun with breadline solo Dads. Doss-houses everywhere, and cheap slum rentals. The place is a magnet for the hard up. A complete horror.
You could be imaginative, though, and choose a rural setting much further north, where there is no farm, but lots of space and no family and not much of a farmhouse. Then you could really lean into the stereotypes. Can’t have society without castes and heirachy, eh Pete?
How is the grass on the octagon this morning, Pete? Anyone muss it up during the night? Bloody scallywags. We should have a discussion about it, about when to have the discussion about doing something, something about something – that should do it. If the situation doesn’t change for the better by itself.
So PG the whole concept of somebody wanting fracking banned is disagreeable to you? Regardless of who and how unheard they are? Go frack in your own backyard.
“it is not possible to do that on the minimum wage – it needs to be topped up by other taxpayers through various subsidies and handouts like WFF. ”
You seem to try and play the ‘middle of the road’ type character Pete. But you do it badly. Mostly because you just come across as a slightly more apolegetic National supporter.
From what I have read your a Peter Dunne follower-which makes a lot of sense. I reckon it’s time to pick a side.
Anyway, being in a postion where I make a lot more than minimum wage and having times where I wonder where my money has gone I often ponder how someone making 13 bucks an hour; A. gets by and B. can afford any type of simple luxury. Which in my opinion any working person should be able to.
A person should not have to work 40 hours a week for just food and shelter in this day and age.
When a person is seen as causing harm to you or your power, then get right up close and friendly. Charm him and make it harder for him to sting.
Patrick Gower is in the swim with John Key and no doubt will be a little less enthusiastic with his stories. Not many political reporters get to swim with the shark PM. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10800105#
You mean ‘del’ where the ‘s’ should be -inside the ?
Be good to update the FAQ. I spent ages trying to figure out what I was doing wrong the other day.
Some US researchers have done a series of pieces of research that through a bit of light on how wealth/prestige reduces compassion for others – especially others in difficult situations or less powerful positions.:
But research suggests the opposite is true: as people climb the social ladder, their compassionate feelings towards other people decline.
[…]
Berkeley psychologists Paul Piff and Dacher Keltner ran several studies looking at whether social class (as measured by wealth, occupational prestige, and education) influences how much we care about the feelings of others.
The research included observing that drivers of more expensive cars were more likely to ignore pedestrians waiting at crossings, and more likely to cut-up other drivers instead of waiting their turn. They also did other research involving keeping “candy” for yourself and leaving some for children.
A related set of studies published by Keltner and his colleagues last year looked at how social class influences feelings of compassion towards people who are suffering.
These findings build upon previous research showing how upper class individuals are worse at recognizing the emotions of others and less likely to pay attention to people they are interacting with (e.g. by checking their cell phones or doodling).
[…]
Piff and his colleagues suspect that the answer may have something to do with how wealth and abundance give us a sense of freedom and independence from others. The less we have to rely on others, the less we may care about their feelings. This leads us towards being more self-focused. Another reason has to do with our attitudes towards greed. Like Gordon Gekko, upper-class people may be more likely to endorse the idea that “greed is good.” Piff and his colleagues found that wealthier people are more likely to agree with statements that greed is justified, beneficial, and morally defensible. These attitudes ended up predicting participants’ likelihood of engaging in unethical behavior.
They should add Key, Nacts and their cronyist, legislation for sale antics to their studies.
It’s a good thing most bankers including John Key are psychopaths. Psychopaths don’t feel anxiety like you and I do which mean they can still sleep soundly in the face of what is coming at us and is created by them.
In fact John Key advising himself in what is arguably to most stunning example of Psychopathic behaviour of a New Zealand Prime Minister is your typical number two of the Hare check-list of Psychopathy: A grandiose sense of self worth.
Gosman, have you watched The Corporation ? i mean actually watched it, scraped the wax from the ol’ lugholes and listened to its clear and concise information. You know… applied critical thought to new information? Not simply glance up from the Biggles Annual all bleary eyed as Mummy puts milk on your Kornies?
There is a lot of well researched data that shows the psychological behaviour expressed by Companies, and those who run them is nothing short of Psychotic. Have you considered the common ground that supports comments from many of the well educated and highly respected individuals who actually have studied the topic. Have you wondered why so many people came to the same conclusions? Remember, if these companies want to be legal people then the values and standards that we hold people to, should apply to them also.
e.g. how much fun would it be to charge a corporation proper income tax, seeing as they are a legal person and all that.
The weasel ones just say, but they are a business and as such get to pick and choose what is of benefit to us and what is of damage to the people we take from.
There is a word for that: Psychopath
(a person suffering from a disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others and the rules of society)
I stated like becoming legal people like the rest of us. None of the links you provided suggested thay have the same rights as the rest of us.
In fact to quote ‘. Legal entities cannot marry, they usually cannot vote or hold public office,[3] and in most jurisdictions there are certain positions which they cannot occupy’.
No, you asked “who is pushing” for it, not what it is now.
I gave you two links that provide a decent background to the issue, which is incredibly longstanding and has progressively expanded over centuries. Those links included actual references (should you choose to speak from a position of knowledge, rather than just being a dissembling cocksucker. I should have known better).
Eve I seriously doubt you have ever seen or met a psychopath and I really hope you never do.
I met a person that the consulting psychiatrist had diagnosed being as close to a pure psychopath as diagnostic tests allowed some years ago and it was an extremely disturbing experience.
I can assure you that although many of our politicians merit all the distrust and abuse you can muster none are psychopaths.
Well actually HS both my husband and I are both diagnosed with PTSD after a five year encounter with a serious Psychopath and the experience has given us a unique view on what these assholes are capable off and I can smell a Psychopath from a mile a way as a result.
John Key is a Psychopath and by the time he is done with this country and sashays back into the world he feels best in filled with fellow Psycho’s, I can assure you there will be a lot more people with PTSD in NZ.
Most likely people who lost their income, jobs, benefits, schooling chances, Housing, Houses and ACC compensations and who as a result have to live in cars, garages, and on the streets.
But don’t worry the pretty girls can find jobs in the super brothel and the boys can be croupiers in Sky city and if your not so pretty but you are lucky you can become a dishwasher in the new convention centre or work in the cigarette packing factory owned by Aussie owners who like our low wages and easy 90 day fire at will clause courtesy of Psycho John Key.
And this is why religious classes are problematic as standard social primate behaviours lead to exclusion and coercion and the usual suspects aren’t all that interested in discussing other religions, except in how Christianity is better than them. Usually.
Religion should not be taught in school time. If the religious nutters want to teach their kids to be as stupid as them then they can do it after school.
I hope you know that the Education Act says that it can’t be? I know this Peter Harrison person of old, and he’s not beyond inventing things to whip up hysteria about – he is a ‘poor pitiful us’ atheist… one of those who claims persecution 100 times a day. 😀
If the religious nutters want to teach their kids to be as stupid as them then they can do it after school.
Bigotry.
(Back in the 1960s, we had a prayer at assembly, before school began, and I well remember one girl who was horribly miserable when her parents came to make a big stink and a loud performance out of dragging her out, loudly proclaiming that as atheists, they disapproved. We her classmates didn’t harass her, the teachers didn’t harass her, her parents harassed her to say that she wanted to be excused, even though she couldn’t have cared less about a 30 second prayer. My father was an atheist, but he didn’t want to make a meal out of it.)
I hope you know that the Education Act says that it can’t be?
Which means that the Education Act is wrong.
Bigotry.
Generally speaking, I couldn’t care less about the religious. I get pissed off when they demand that we make allowances for them and that their religion be forced upon society.
We her classmates didn’t harass her, the teachers didn’t harass her, her parents harassed her to say that she wanted to be excused, even though she couldn’t have cared less about a 30 second prayer.
Which just shows that you missed the point and haven’t learned anything since – she, and the rest of the children, shouldn’t have had religion forced upon.
BTW, the children did try to harass me when I decided (yes, me not my parents) to ignore religious class at school. The bible thumping teachers weren’t too happy about it either.
Ah, if you think so, take it up with the Min of Ed. 😀
Generally speaking, I couldn’t care less about the religious. I get pissed off when they demand that we make allowances for them and that their religion be forced upon society.
An attack of the poor pitifuls there, mate! Who’s forcing it on you? Maybe you hate that we breathe the same air you do… would you choose Sam Harris’ and Dawkins’ solution? (For the record, forcible incarceration in mental hospitals, which goes with automatic loss of custody of our kids, and I assume, sterilisation, all “for the good of society”. Given Harris is an American, it’s hard to know what he means by society…
Which just shows that you missed the point and haven’t learned anything since – she, and the rest of the children, shouldn’t have had religion forced upon.
Obviously, I did miss the point then. I thought she wanted to do what most of us did, which was to ignore a very tiny part of the day and get on with our Larry’s Rebels fantasies, I didn’t realise anything was being forced on us! (Which of course it wasnt’. Teenagers, even if they are girls I add for your benefit) are capable of ignoring something they don’t want to hear.
BTW, the children did try to harass me when I decided (yes, me not my parents) to ignore religious class at school. The bible thumping teachers weren’t too happy about it either.
Oh, a proper little Dawkins in the making, what a precious, precocious wee genius you were! Your parents must have been so proud. Bible thumping teachers – what was your school, Dotheboys Hall? Sir Lord Herr Professor Dawkins tells the same story – about how he as a 6 year old impressed parents and grandparents with his precocious infant grasp of subtleties and arguments undreamt of by generations that had lived and died before him. ‘Scuse me while I giggle and snort… and oh dear, I had better stop here – with an ego the size of yours, comes great sensitivity to even imaginary slights…
We’re not talking about ‘teenagers’ Vicky. It’s primary schools.
And where do you get off just assumming that the story is a lie?
Honestly, do you think it’s good enough that primary school children who are not part of these programmes are looked after in a way that makes them feel like they are being punnished?
Do you think it’s appropriate for religious instructers to be telling primary age kids that dinosaurs didn’t exist?
It looks to me like you are the one with the ‘poor ;little me’ syndrome going on. it looks like just because someone is criticising something allegedly Christian, you feel the need to jump in and attack the people complaining about it.
I was talking with a woman today about this story, and she told me she opted out of the classes after her 5 year old daughter was told by the instructer that “didn’t have god in her heart” and that she would “burn like toast”.
Now 5 yr olds sometimes hear things in a way that they weren’t intended, but that means adults have to be pretty careful in how they talk about things with them.
These classes are due for a bit of a looking at I reckon, and schoools absolutely need to have good systems in place for the children who do not take part.
And where do you get off just assumming that the story is a lie?
What story are you saying I said was a lie?
Do you think it’s appropriate for religious instructers to be telling primary age kids that dinosaurs didn’t exist?
Of course it’s not appropriate – if it is happening! Given that the Education Act says that education in NZ must be “free, secular and compulsory”, I really don’t see that what’s alleged can be blamed on the school.
I was talking with a woman today about this story, and she told me she opted out of the classes after her 5 year old daughter was told by the instructer that “didn’t have god in her heart” and that she would “burn like toast”.
Sorry, that’s a story I really don’t believe! I know Christians, even the kind I now avoid, the evangelicals who are portrayed in the media as saying such things – and I know that in reality they don’t say such things to children!
(They do in Hollywood, and on HBO, of course, but not in NZ, and certainly not in schools.)
These classes are due for a bit of a looking at I reckon, and schoools absolutely need to have good systems in place for the children who do not take part.
Definitely, if they are what you say they are. My son was at school from 1992 to 2007, and I assure you that ‘Bible in Schools’ in the 1990s, consisted of 10 minutes before 08.30. Leon opted out with my blessing, despite my being a Christian, I have always believed that the Education Act is fine as it is. In fact, almost everybody opted out as it was simply too early for everyone, including parents who, like us, lived 5 minutes walk from the school.
I know this Peter Harrison person of old, and he’s not beyond inventing things to whip up hysteria about – he is a ‘poor pitiful us’ atheist… one of those who claims persecution 100 times a day?
I assumed this was in relation to the story linked to.
And I’m not sure from the rest of your comment that you actually know how this stuff works in many schools. It’s not ten minutes before class, it’s often 1/2 an hour during the day. To comply with the education act the school ‘closes’ for the time of the classes. The instructers are not employed by the school, they are usually volunteers, but the school is very much responsible for chooing who will be running the program. If inapropriate things are going on, the school has the responsibility to sort it out.
And as for you calling my acquaintence a liar based on nothing more than your alleged knowledge of what all christians in NZ would say? Umm, perhaps re-read what I wrote.
Do you really think it unbelievable that an untrained but enthusiastic evangelical might phrase things poorly, such that a 5 year old child might think they were talking to and about them rather than generally?
Do you honestly think it is not possible that an evangelical might evangelise to children, and talk about the consequences of not having ‘Jesus in your heart’?
And I’m not sure from the rest of your comment that you actually know how this stuff works in many schools. It’s not ten minutes before class, it’s often 1/2 an hour during the day. To comply with the education act the school ‘closes’ for the time of the classes. The instructers are not employed by the school, they are usually volunteers, but the school is very much responsible for chooing who will be running the program. If inapropriate things are going on, the school has the responsibility to sort it out.
Happen it’s changed since L, was at school? How is it you know? From my reading of the Standard, I know that maybe 5 Standardistas actually have children, and of the regulars, maybe 2 have… You are not one of them. Still, that’s not relevant, and too easily twisted by you, so moving on..
Do you really think it unbelievable that an untrained but enthusiastic evangelical might phrase things poorly, such that a 5 year old child might think they were talking to and about them rather than generally?
Yes, I do find it completely unbelievable! As I said I actually know Christians, and not just as characters in HBO dramas, or hate figures and no evangelical would ever say such a thing to a 5 year old as your friend quoted them as saying. Now you’re back-tracking, and claiming it was something different, so what was it, an ‘untrained but enthusiastic evangelical’ or what my old mother would have called a ‘complete and utter luniac’? If it’s the luniac saying “burn in hell”, there’s no way that’s true, and mother no doubt invented what daughter said, dreaming it all up through the veil of her own fears and prejudice.
Do you honestly think it is not possible that an evangelical might evangelise to children, and talk about the consequences of not having ‘Jesus in your heart’?
Not in the words you claimed, no. Not to 5 year olds. I find it somewhat amusing that you are frantically back-pedalling. Did you have a chat to your friend in the mean time? Did she tell you that exaggeration can amount to lying as Peter Woss-name no doubt did? (In his case to great effect – a TV item no less!)
Most of the authors have kids at various ages. The only one I know who doesn’t is me. I just got to be uncle across my nieces, nephews, cousins, etc – especially when they hit their teens.
I was talking with a woman today about this story, and she told me she opted out of the classes after her 5 year old daughter was told by the instructer that “didn’t have god in her heart” and that she would “burn like toast”.
Now 5 yr olds sometimes hear things in a way that they weren’t intended, but that means adults have to be pretty careful in how they talk about things with them.
That was what I said, and I haven’t ‘backtracked’ in the slightest from it, so your amusement is based on your failure to read what I said.
The education Act hasn’t changed on this for a long time. I’ve Known how it works since I was at school, where we had a similar program. It is also discussed in the article from yesterday:
Schools are legally obliged to be secular, but under the Education Act they are allowed to close for an hour a week for instruction, as long as children can opt out.
You seem to be remembering the way your sons school did things, and assuming that all schools do it that way. There is no basis for this belief, which you know if you had bothered to read the links, and think about them, rather than get all defensive about ‘atheists’.
I’m done with this. I’m taking my son (who I have mentioned numerous times on this blog, so you may need to update your spreadsheet of standartista famial status) to a comic convention today.
“From my reading of the Standard, I know that maybe 5 Standardistas actually have children, and of the regulars, maybe 2 have… You are not one of them. Still, that’s not relevant, and too easily twisted by you, so moving on.. “
lolz. Oh Vicky, you do say some fucking ridiculous things when you’re speaking in tongues.
lolz. Oh Vicky, you do say some fucking ridiculous things when you’re speaking in tongues.
And oh so predictable too…
We can’t have any semi-civil discussions here about secularism without Vicky turning up and playing the persecution complex card /smugface
And of course, she misses the whole human rights issue concerning witnessing and it’s exploitative nature in terms of social networks and the negative consequences therein on children. Particularly in teh context of school environs and bullying…
The religious are and it’s not upon me but upon children who are incapable of differentiating between truth and BS. The schools should not have to make time available for religion.
(Which of course it wasnt’)
Yes it was – you had to go to the assembly and listen to the prayer didn’t you? That’s force because you had no choice.
Oh, a proper little Dawkins in the making, what a precious…
What a surprise, not happy with the message you then resort to ad hominem attack
I quite liked the allegation that wanting a genuinely secular education equalled wanting religious people forcibly detained on mental health grounds.
And that’s how people like you end up ruining the reputation of the people who comment here that y’all have decided to hate – by pretending we said things we didn’t say! I have a degree in education. I have said loud and long through out this thread that I want and agree with the secular education that is mandated by the Education Act. Yet you pretend I said otherwise. Read back to what I actually said, and try to restrain your impulse to lie about what Christians say. I was quoting Sam Harris, numb-nuts, he’s the one who said he wants Christians locked up so they can’t indoctrinate ‘innocent children’.
lulz, I do <3 it when apologists quote mine atheists and claim Harris and Dawkins want parents incarcerated for forcing their religious beliefs on their children (and others), when all they did is point out the exploitative nature of much of conversion and it's occasional perturbing closeness to non-physical forms of child abuse.
So, by all means Vicky, provide us with teh quotes that show they want to do what you claim they do. Or make a retraction.
“Yes it was – you had to go to the assembly and listen to the prayer didn’t you? That’s force because you had no choice.”
Yes, that’s my experience at primary school too. We had a Jewish girl in our class who was made to stand outside the hall during religious education – stand, not sit, and nor was she allowed to go elsewhere. I thought she was lucky (I didn’t understand religious intolerance then, but that was a good starting point in learning) and I tried to see if I could join her, but sadly I had no letter from my parents asking to be excused. So yeah – forced religious instruction for the masses.
Yes, that’s my experience at primary school too. We had a Jewish girl in our class who was made to stand outside the hall during religious education – stand, not sit, and nor was she allowed to go elsewhere. I thought she was lucky (I didn’t understand religious intolerance then, but that was a good starting point in learning) and I tried to see if I could join her, but sadly I had no letter from my parents asking to be excused. So yeah – forced religious instruction for the masses.
Really, I don’t know what to say to this! Will the story include a yellow star and a Judenfrei banner next time?
Where did you go to school? New Zealand? Seriously, I doubt it. I attended a state primary school in New Zealand (a state one, note – I wasn’t in the socio-economic band for private education, and we didn’t have any such thing as RE.) The girl I spoke of at our High School was the child of campaigning atheists, and was excluded by them, and was very unhappy about it (I would have been as well, being made the subject of such a drama.) I am sorry for waxing sarcastic above – but seriously, the story of the poor little Jewish girl made to adopt a stress position outside the classroom, seems such a novelistic one! HBO strikes again – the Jewish kids in Rotorua primary, intermediate and secondary schools that I attended, all two of them, were the children of my Mum’s best childhood friend, and always made a point of flaunting their superior socio-economic status at us, carrying on Esther’s childhood rivalry with our Mum…
Oh, so, I am the intolerant one? Don’t be absurd. I asked you a heap of questions, because your story doesn’t sound very true to me… not true of a state school in NZ anyway, but instead of answering, you make with the insults.
I am reminded of the IDF, and their charming habits when it comes to tormenting Palestinian children. Sorry, Jews have used up all their sympathy chips with me…
The schools should not have to make time available for religion.
What part of the Education Act (which I keep quoting) do you not understand? Schools do not have to make time available for religion!
Yes it was – you had to go to the assembly and listen to the prayer didn’t you? That’s force because you had no choice.
Cry me a river. No, we didn’t have to go to assembly. We could do as half the school did, and be late! To you all these years later, it’s a massively big deal – to us in 1966 to 1971, it was literally nothing. As I say, my father was an atheist, but a far more tolerant fair-minded one than most I’ve met, especially here! (Working class, English, a far cry from the upper middle class New Zealander with the massive chip on theshoulder that one encounters on the Standard.) He was ‘down the school’ at any hint of anything unjust, but not about this – he was not as insecure about his childrens’ intelligence as you are (although I assume that as you don’t have children, your concern is for theoretical children, whom you assume are all a bit thick…
Schools do not have to make time available for religion!
Then why is this shit happening at school and in school time? Oh, that’s right, because some religious arseholes decided to make it available and then when children opt out they get ostracised. All the act should say is that religion should not be taught at school in school time.
BTW, you haven’t quoted the educationact yet – you’ve merely said what you believe it contains.
He was ‘down the school’ at any hint of anything unjust, but not about this
Perhaps he didn’t realise that it was unjust.
Cry me a river. No, we didn’t have to go to assembly. We could do as half the school did, and be late!
Really? If I did that at any of the schools I went to I ended up in detention and/or getting caned.
Anyhow, I find it most interesting that Vicky’s avoiding the current issue via diving into the past and trying to establish some sort of ground on which to normalise religious instruction in state schools.
Anyhow, I find it most interesting that Vicky’s avoiding the current issue via diving into the past and trying to establish some sort of ground on which to normalise religious instruction in state schools.
Good grief you are a moron aren’t you?! How many times do I have to say that I don’t support religious education in state schools? Could I say it any more plainly? I am reminded of the way y’all distort what Gosman and Pete George say, and then work your way up to a few cluster f bombs, and shit-storms of hate and indignation about what you said they said, not what they said! Because what I just said will turn into my supporting Pete and Gosman I want it on record that I don’t support them, I just think it would be a much better look for the Standard if you actually answered what they say and not what you wish they had said…
My crime seems to be that I questioned the truthfulness of some of the bizarre novelistic stories people here are telling about friends, and their children, and the children of friends of friends, and their own primary schooling any time between 5 and 55 years ago… I well know the temptation to exaggerate to make a good story better – the only problem is, that you risk losing all credibility 🙂 especially when you tell the exaggerated story to someone who happens to actually know something about the subject – in my case, of state schooling in New Zealand between the 1960s and the 2000s.
BTW, you haven’t quoted the educationact yet – you’ve merely said what you believe it contains.
What I know it contains, idiot. Look it up!
Perhaps he didn’t think that it was unjust. (FIFY)
Working class, English, but he was still intelligent. You ‘lefties’ amuse me greatly, you’re all such snobs! Real lefties would make a meal of you…
Really? If I did that at any of the schools I went to I ended up in detention and/or getting caned.
Boys’ and boarding schools obviously! Are you one of those self-pitying men who constantly wail that it’s so unfair that girls weren’t caned? (Cause we weren’t 😀 ) You miss the point that because assembly was officially before school started (or there couldn’t have been a prayer, could there?) it wasn’t compulsory?
My kids primary school closed once a week for religious indoctrination. For half an hour. Unfortunately it was after my kids bus arrived so they were at school, anyway.
Because a few religious parents had taken over the board.
After my 5 year old started going on about nailing people up, including waking up with nightmares about it, I withdrew them.
We would never allow 5 year olds to be told about such extreme torture and violence except under the cover of religion.
The schools “Christians’ put all the kids who were not doing religion in the hall with no books, games, or anything else to do, or supervision.
Just recently a gay teenager of my acquaintance was told by the Baptist paster of a youth group that he was going to burn in hell.
Lovely people, Christians.
Not to mention all the adds for teachers, for publicly funded schools, which say that teachers must support the “special character”, i.e. religious indoctrination of students, of the school.
My experience is that those who believe in one load of crap, like sky fairies, are much more likely to believe in others, like creationism, Austrian economics or John Key.
I think you have made the very common, and understandable error of confusing people who believe in a God, with fundamentalists…. who fool everyone and themselves that they believe in a God… but who don’t.
In my world fundamentalists are people who are completely blind and unaware of the real nature of religion which is actually about abstract and evanescent qualities such as justice, compasssion and dignity. Because of this blindness they construct instead a facade of a religion based on institutions, rituals and rules.
Which is what you experienced. I’m saddened and sorry to read how it has hurt people you know.
I think you have made the very common, and understandable error of confusing people who believe in a God, with fundamentalists…. who fool everyone and themselves that they believe in a God… but who don’t.
and what ???? the OIA spinmeisters can go fly a kite, it is easy to release a document that supports pre-determined findings. The facts remain that NZ was simply not given the same opportunities to buy these farms that were offered overseas.
Which Government in 2005 revised the Overseas Investment Commission to the Overseas Investment Office with many changed directions – which have now been fullfilled.
We,as in the we of New Zealand would seem to have 2 choices vis a vis the looming rental ‘price crunch’ facing those whose only means of accommodation is ‘to rent’,
Choice 1 is to build our way out of a situation where for many of those on low and fixed incomes accommodation costs take between 50 and 70% of their income, a situation destined to become progressively worse as capital and labour are directed into the Christchurch rebuild leaving tenants in other city’s to face a growing shortage of accommodation along with the inevitable ‘rack renting’ that comes with such shortages,
Choice 2 is to simply enact legislation requiring rental accommodation to be leased on the basis of 25% of the income of any and all tenants to be housed in that particular accommodation….
The United States’ global trade representative has strongly criticised a perceived preference on the part of large Australian organisations for hosting their data on-shore in Australia, claiming it created a significant trade barrier for US technology firms and was based on a misinterpretation of the US Patriot Act.
opinion/analysis
This is pretty much what you’d expect from the US Government — it’s looking out for its own interests and trying to push Australia to conform with it. However, I don’t view the US Trade Representative’s views as legitimate, when examined from an Australian perspective. US cloud computing companies such as Salesforce.com, Rackspace, Amazon and Google have committed very little infrastructure to the Australian market, and analysis after analysis has warned of the data security dangers of storing sensitive data in jurisdictions covered by US legislation, which can, at times, allow the US Government unprecedented access to private data.
So, the “trade barrier” that the US is complaining about is the fact that the US government isn’t trusted.
“Today’s New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows Prime Minister John Key’s National Party (49.5%, up 5.5%) improving its standing to its highest since last year’s NZ Election. The improvement in National’s vote comes at the expense of the two main Opposition parties — Labour (26.5%, down 4%) and the Greens (12.5%, down 4.5%) — the Greens result is similar to their polling achieved prior to the high achieved in the last Morgan Poll conducted at the time of Earth Hour.
I can’t find ACT. Anyone know what happened to them? The gap between the current Government and the opposition is still just a few points and this poll was conducted before Jackpot John outed himself as a casino shill.
If it’s not a rogue poll for Labour, they have a fair bit of work ahead of them 😛
I recon it’s more a rogue poll for the Nat’s as they seem to be registering a bit too high given current events. National is serving up their unpopular legislation early in their term to get it out of the way, and hope people forget about it come next election season. So yeah 49.5% sounds a tad high. I would have thought some kind of slight decline would make more sense, so maybe this is the rogue.
Greens are probably registering a bit low, 15%+/- seems more reasonable, they have been very effective and confident in parliament. They raise good points, they are definitely set to become our third major party imo.
Of course I have no frigging idea how people would vote, just basing all this conjecture on my personal theories and observations of attitudes of people whom I interact with.
Agree, ACT are a joke. They won’t be there next time.
Regardless of the non too subtle swings between polls, public support for the Nats is likely to still sit well above Labour, and still around the same as Labour/Greens combined. All this after a difficult few weeks for the government.
John Key must be pleased.
NZ know Act are a joke – but Epsom know that it’s an extra electorate seat for the nats. So – barring personal tragedy or criminal proceedings – banks will be there next time. The tosser.
Left and right are always going to balance out broadly. A year ago National could have comfortably governed alone – even up to or over 60 with its coalition partners.
So far it is a spike against the trend. Key must be relieved that the knives that were half drawn have gone a bit back into the sheath. But I think he’d be looking for it to go back down to ~45-6 on a good day next time, and the knives will be out if it goes to 44-3.
I’m not sure that the Epsom seat is worth forgoing seeing as they poll so low (or not at all) and won’t take additional seats with them. They only cause unneeded embarrassment to National.
I don’t think Key will be relieved, I dont think he was worried to begin with. And I’m not sure where you’re suggesting these knives were being drawn from?
Tories are like sharks. If one starts to bleed, the others attack it.
As for the relative value of a single seat – they know that right now. It is a single seat that will let them sell public assets, sell legislation to casinos, and continue selling New Zealanders down the river.
Thread in question was called something like “Occupying mp” and anout about some crap or other, with the commenters all calling Dalziell a drunk and blah blah blah.
Remember that time dpf had a hissy fit when Idiot Savant said a Nat mp was drunk in the house, and I/S apologised and stuff.
Ok, that apology gets Farrar of the hook. Probably. But where does that leave David Garrett? KB was just the conduit for his outburst. I’m guessing that Dalziell has a far more actionable case than Judith Collins could ever hope to muster on the basis of his repeated and, clearly, unprovable allegations. How many strikes is it now for Garrett?
I read that post yesterday and thought he was taking “a readers email” a bit far. According to Farrar it was beyond scrutiny and 100% accurate. And he was basing all these accusations and things on this “readers email”.
A judgment based solely on the prosecution is a worthless judgment.
worthless ..,
and now sheesh you should that old horse david garrett going crazy. what a cesspit – stinky stinky bleeaargh …
I know – that milford dart tunnel. Gotta get more and faster – its the only way. But once there is more and faster and it all settles down, how are they going to get even morer and even fasterer? That’s what I would like to know because I don’t think they have actually thought about that. Or rather, they dont really care about that. It’s all just a good capital making exercise.
fucking ridiculous things when you’re speaking in tongues.
No reply button under this little gem, and I can’t remember who said it now, as every man and his dog seems to have decided to get in on the more-atheist-than-you act… 😀
I am not a fundamentalist, therefore I don’t speak in tongues, but that doesn’t even matter as whoever said it was typing one handed, he was so in love with his own cleverness
I don’t go in for effing and blinding, and insults, as I don’t see the need. Pity you do!
For whoever it was said he was taking his son to Armageddon, all I can say it, I hope my son doesn’t meet you there, and that you can’t identify him… He’s an atheist right now, but things like facts don’t stop you men when you’re on a roll making with the ‘cleverness’!
It was me who mentioned my son, because you claimed he doesn’t exist. Just another thing you were wrong about in this thread.
Other things you were wrong about includes how the religious education in schools program operates. Contra what you were saying, it isn’t at all limited to ten minutes before school, and it often is in the middle of the day, for uop to an hour a week. These facts were noted in the story linked to in the comment that started the discussion.
Aside from that your comments have mainly been that evryone else must be lying about their experiences because , umm, you can vouch for how all christians in NZ would act, because you know some, and everyone else here just gets their views about Christians from the TV. Or something.
And by the way, speaking in tongues is a pentacostal thing, not all pentacostalists are fundamentalist, and by an even greater stretch nor are all fundamentalists are pentacostal.
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Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... SkS in the News... Coming Soon on SkS... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... Story of the Week... Many Scientists Now Say Global Warming Could Stop Relatively Quickly After Emissions Go to ZeroThat’s one of several recent ...
The situation in the UK is looking catastrophic.Cases: over *70,000* people who were tested in England on 29th December tested positive. This is *not* because there were more tests on that day. It *is* 4 days after Christmas though, around when people who caught Covid on Christmas Day might start ...
by Don Franks For five days over New Year weekend, sixteen prisoners in the archaic pre WW1 block of Waikeria Prison defied authorities by setting fires and occupying the building’s roof. They eventually agreed to surrender after intervention from Maori party co-leader Rawiri Waititi. A message from the protesting men had stated: ...
Lost Opportunity: The powerful political metaphor of the Maori Party leading the despised and marginalised from danger to safety, is one Labour could have pre-empted by taking the uprising at Waikeria Prison much more seriously. AS WORD OF Rawiri Waititi’s successful intervention in the Waikeria Prison stand-off spreads, the Maori ...
As we welcome in the new year, our focus is on continuing to keep New Zealanders safe and moving forward with our economic recovery. There’s a lot to get on with, but before we say a final goodbye to 2020, here’s a quick look back at some of the milestones ...
Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
The commemoration of the 175th anniversary of the Battle of Ruapekapeka represents an opportunity for all New Zealanders to reflect on the role these conflicts have had in creating our modern nation, says Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Kiri Allan. “The Battle at Te Ruapekapeka Pā, which took ...
Babies born with tongue-tie will be assessed and treated consistently under new guidelines released by the Ministry of Health, Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Around 5% to 10% of babies are born with a tongue-tie, or ankyloglossia, in New Zealand each year. At least half can ...
The prisoner disorder event at Waikeria Prison is over, with all remaining prisoners now safely and securely detained, Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says. The majority of those involved in the event are members of the Mongols and Comancheros. Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to ...
Travellers from the United Kingdom or the United States bound for New Zealand will be required to get a negative test result for COVID-19 before departing, and work is underway to extend the requirement to other long haul flights to New Zealand, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. “The new PCR test requirement, foreshadowed last ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has added her warm congratulations to the New Zealanders recognised for their contributions to their communities and the country in the New Year 2021 Honours List. “The past year has been one that few of us could have imagined. In spite of all the things that ...
Attorney-General and Minister for the Environment David Parker has congratulated two retired judges who have had their contributions to the country and their communities recognised in the New Year 2021 Honours list. The Hon Tony Randerson QC has been appointed a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit for ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the New Year’s Honours List 2021 highlights again the outstanding contribution made by Pacific people across Aotearoa. “We are acknowledging the work of 13 Pacific leaders in the New Year’s Honours, representing a number of sectors including health, education, community, sports, the ...
The Government’s investment in digital literacy training for seniors has led to more than 250 people participating so far, helping them stay connected. “COVID-19 has meant older New Zealanders are showing more interest in learning how to use technology like Zoom and Skype so they can to keep in touch ...
Dairy prices increased by 3.9% across the board at the latest Fonterra global auction. The lift followed rises of 1.3% and 4.3% in the December auctions which took dairy prices to their highest level in 11 months, defying those analysts who believed Covid-19 had disrupted dairy markets. In the latest ...
America's Cup team American Magic has spoken publicly after their boat Patriot capsized when on its way to their first win of the Challenger Selection Series yesterday. Patriot dramatically capsized yesterday, becoming temporarily airborne before crashing back into the water and tipping. The boat, helmed by New Zealander Dean Barker, could not be ...
It’s a seemingly age old question: why do Auckland’s beaches become unswimmable after every single downpour? Stewart Sowman-Lund investigates.Ah, the beach. A staple of the New Zealand summer. Unless, of course, you’re based in Auckland and it’s raining. The start of 2021 has been a lot like every other New ...
We have opened a book, among members of the Point of Order team, on how long it will be before the PM offers to sort out the land dispute at Wellington’s Shelly Bay and (to win the double) how much the settlement will cost taxpayers. Just a few weeks ago ...
Breakfast TV news is back for 2021, and Tara Ward got up early to watch. “Thank god it’s almost Christmas,” John Campbell said during the opening minutes of Breakfast’s premiere episode of the year. “2021’s been rough so far. I’m buggered”. We’re all buggered, to be fair, but I’m worried that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Pearson, Professor of Journalism and Social Media, Griffith Centre for Social and Cultural Research, Griffith University, Griffith University The blame for the recent assault on the US Capitol and President Donald Trump’s broader dismantling of democratic institutions and norms can be ...
Despite a popular and unifying leader of the governing party, divisions both in policy and culture will test the progressive movement, writes Peter McKenzie.‘I think we’re confused.” Marlon Drake is an organiser for the Living Wage Movement. His job takes him all over Wellington, trying to convince businesses to increase ...
Covid-19 Recovery Minister Chris Hipkins says vaccinations should be available to the public by the middle of the year, but other countries are prioritised. ...
It’s as true now as it ever has been: nowhere else offers an education experience like that of Dunedin. But rather than resting on their laurels, the University of Otago and Otago Polytechnic have plans to make the city an even more inspiring place for students.From high in the summit ...
Haggis, neeps and tatties and whisky may not be a traditional spread for a summer gathering in NZ, but trust Auckland city councillor and Kiwi-Scot Cathy Casey on this one. Gie it laldy! Rule one: Hold it on (or near) January 25Robert Burns was born on January 25, 1759. Since the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Tuffley, Senior Lecturer in Applied Ethics & CyberSecurity, Griffith University It could be argued artificial intelligence (AI) is already the indispensable tool of the 21st century. From helping doctors diagnose and treat patients to rapidly advancing new drug discoveries, it’s our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Kenny, Professor, Australian Studies Institute, Australian National University Through recent natural disasters, global upheavals and a pandemic, Australia’s political centre has largely held. Australians may have disagreed at times, but they have also kept faith with governmental norms, eschewing the false ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Holly Seale, Associate professor, UNSW Health workers are at higher risk of COVID infection and illness. They can also act as extremely efficient transmitters of viruses to others in medical and aged care facilities. That’s why health workers have been prioritised to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jim Orchard, Adjunct Lecturer, Monash University Last week, somewhat overshadowed by the events in Washington, the Democrats took control of the US Senate. The Democrats now hold a small majority in both the House and the Senate until 2022, giving President-elect Joe ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mittul Vahanvati, Lecturer, School of Global, Urban and Social Studies, RMIT University Heatwaves, floods, bushfires: disaster season is upon us again. We can’t prevent hazards or climate change-related extreme weather events but we can prepare for them — not just as individuals ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mandie Shean, Lecturer, School of Education, Edith Cowan University Starting school is an important event for children and a positive experience can set the tone for the rest of their school experience. Some children are excited to attend school for the first ...
Some families in emergency housing are reporting their children are becoming emotionally distressed because of their living conditions. Demand for emergency accommodation has escalated this past year with the number of emergency housing grants increasing by half. Data showed nearly 10,000 people were given an Emergency Housing Special Needs Grant between ...
Summer reissue: Michèle A’Court, Alex Casey and Leonie Hayden are back for a second season of On the Rag, and where better to start than with the mysterious, exhausting world of wellness?First published June 23, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The Spinoff’s journalism is ...
With few Covid-19 infections and negiligible natural immunity, New Zealand faces being a victim of its own success when it is left till last to get the vaccines, argues Dr Parmjeet Parmar. ...
Steve Braunias reports on a literary cancelling. The Corrections department has refused to allow Jared Savage's best-selling book Gangland inside prison on the grounds that it "promotes violence and drug use". An inmate at Otago Corrections Facility in Dunedin was sent a copy of the book – but it was ...
New data from the CTU’s annual work life survey shows a snapshot of working people’s experiences and outlook heading out of 2020 and into the new year. Concerningly 42% of respondents cite workplace bullying as an issue in their workplace - a number ...
The dramatic capsize of American Magic brought out the best in the America's Cup sailing fraternity. But, Suzanne McFadden asks, what does it mean to the crippled New York Yacht Club campaign and to the Prada Cup? It was a scene as unreal as it was calamitous. Right at the moment the ...
An international player, selector and self-confessed cricket stats nerd, Penny Kinsella has now played a hand in recording the rich history of the women's game in New Zealand. Penny Kinsella’s cricketing career was perched on the cusp of change for the White Ferns. “My first tour to Australia, we ...
The current number of members of parliament is starting to get too low for the job we expect them to do, argues Alex Braae. As a general rule, with the possible exception of their families, nobody likes backbench MPs. But it’s nevertheless time we accepted that parliament should have more of ...
The experience in the Brazilian city of Manaus reveals how mistaken, and dangerous, the herd-immunity-by-infection theory really is. As families around the world mourn more than two million people dead from Covid-19, the Plan B academics and their PR industry collaborator continue to argue that the New Zealand government should stop ...
As New Zealand gears up to fight climate change, experts warn that we need to actually reduce emissions, not just plant trees to offset our greenhouse gases. ...
A nationwide poll has found majority support for the government to continue to closely monitor abortions in New Zealand and the reasons for it, despite the Ministry of Health recently suggesting that there is not a use for collecting much of this information. ...
The out-of-control growth in gangs, gun crime, and violent gang activity is exposing our communities to dangerous levels of violence that will inevitably end in tragedy, says Sensible Sentencing Trust. “The recent incidents of people being shot and ...
Successive governments have paid lip service to our productivity challenge but have failed to deliver. It's time to establish a Productivity Council charged with prioritising efforts. ...
Understanding the connection between chronic fatigue syndrome and ‘long Covid’ might be helpful in treating symptoms that doctors will find all too easy to dismiss.When people began to report signs of “long Covid”, characterised by a lack of full recovery from the virus and debilitating fatigue, I recognised their stories. ...
Nadine Anne Hura, who never considered herself an artist, reflects on what art and making has taught her.I couldn’t clean or cook or wash the clothes, but I could sew. That’s a lie, I’m a terrible sewer, but I left work early to fossick around in the $1 bin of ...
Summer reissue: In the final episode of this season of Bad News, Alice is joined by Billy T award winner Kura Forrester to look at how well we’re honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi in 2020.First published September 3, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The ...
Lucy Revill’s The Residents is a blog about daily life in Wellington that has morphed into a stylish, low-key coffee-table book featuring interviews and photographic portraits of 38 Wellingtonians. In this extract, Revill profiles Eboni Waitere, owner and executive director of Huia Publishers. The Residents features names like Monique Fiso ...
Pacific Media Watch correspondent The pro-independence conflict in West Papua with a missionary plane reportedly being shot down at Intan Jaya has stirred contrasting responses from the TNI/POLRI state sources, church leaders and an independence leader. A shooting caused a plane to catch fire on 6 January 2021 in the ...
“Last year ACT warned that rewarding protestors at Ihumātao with taxpayer money would promote further squatting. We just didn’t think it would happen as quickly as it is in Shelly Bay” says ACT Leader David Seymour. “The prosperity of all ...
Our kindly PM registered her return to work as leader of the nation with yet another statement on the Beehive website, the second in two days (following her appointment of Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council on Wednesday). It’s great to know we don’t have to check with ...
A Pūhoi pub is refusing to remove a piece of memorabilia bearing the n-word from its walls. Dr Lachy Paterson looks at the history of the word here, and New Zealand’s complicity in Britain’s shameful slave trading past.Content warning: This article contains racist language and images.On a pub wall in ...
Supermarket shoppers looking for citrus are seeing a sour trend at the moment – some stores are entirely tapped out of lemons. But why? Batches of homemade lemonade will be taking a hit this summer, with life not giving New Zealand shoppers lemons. Prices are high at supermarkets and grocers that ...
You’re born either a cheery soul or a gloomy one, reckons Linda Burgess – but what happens when gene pools from opposite ends of the spectrum collide?In our shoeboxes of photos that we have to sort out before we die or get demented – because who IS that kid on ...
Summer reissue: Prisoner voting rights are something that few in government seem particularly motivated to do anything about. Could a catchy charity single help draw attention to the issue?First published September 1, 2020.Independent journalism depends on you. Help us stay curious in 2021. The Spinoff’s journalism is funded by its ...
Hundreds more Cook Islanders are expected to begin criss-crossing the Pacific, Air NZ will triple the number of flights to Rarotonga next week, and about 300 managed isolation places will be freed up for Kiwis returning from other parts of the world. When Thomas Tarurongo Wynne took a job in Wellington at ...
SPECIAL REPORT:By Ena Manuireva in Auckland It seems a long time ago – some 124 days – since Mā’ohi Nui deplored its first covid-19 related deaths of an elderly woman on 11 September 2020 followed by her husband just hours later, both over the age of 80. The local ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Turnbull, Postdoctoral research associate, UNSW A global coalition of more than 50 countries have this week pledged to protect over 30% of the planet’s lands and seas by the end of this decade. Their reasoning is clear: we need greater protection ...
The Reserve Bank Governor’s apology and claim he will ‘own the issue’ is laughable given the lack of answers and timing of its release. Jordan Williams, a spokesman for the Taxpayers’ Union said: “It’s been five days since they came clean, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olga Kokshagina, Researcher – Innovation & Entrepreneurship, RMIT University Are too many online meetings and notifications getting you down? Online communication tools – from email to virtual chat and video-conferencing – have transformed the way we work. In many respects they’ve made ...
The Reserve Bank acknowledges information about some of its stakeholders may have been breached in a malicious data hack. The Governor of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has commissioned an independent inquiry into how stakeholders' information was compromised when hackers breached a file sharing service used by the bank. “We ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caitlin Syme, PhD in Vertebrate Palaeontology, The University of Queensland This story contains spoilers for Ammonite Palaeontologist Mary Anning is known for discovering a multitude of Jurassic fossils from Lyme Regis on England’s Dorset Coast from the age of ten in 1809. ...
A tribute to the sitcoms of old? In the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Yup. Sam Brooks reviews the audacious WandaVision.Nothing sends a chill up my spine like the phrase “Marvel Cinematic Universe”. Since launching in 2008 with Iron Man, the MCU has become a shambling behemoth, with over 23 films (not ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University The alt-right, QAnon, paramilitary and Donald Trump-supporting mob that stormed the US Capitol on January 6 claimed they were only doing what the so-called “founding fathers” of the US had done in ...
The Point of Order Ministerial Workload Watchdog and our ever-vigilant Trough Monitor were both triggered yesterday by an item of news from the office of Conservation Minister Kititapu Allan. The minister was drawing attention to new opportunities to dip into the Jobs for Nature programme (and her statement was the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andreas Kupz, Senior Research Fellow, James Cook University In July 1921, a French infant became the first person to receive an experimental vaccine against tuberculosis (TB), after the mother had died from the disease. The vaccine, known as Bacille Calmette-Guérin (BCG), is ...
The first Friday Poem for 2021 is by Wellington poet Rebecca Hawkes.While you were partying I studied the bladeI your ever-loving edgelord God-emperorof the bot army & bitcoin mine subsistingon an IV drip of gamer girl bathwaterfinally my lonelinessis your responsibility………. you seeI need a girlfriend assigned to me by the ...
The arming of police officers in Canterbury was inevitable with the growing numbers and brazenness of the gangs across the country – this should be a permanent step, says Sensible Sentencing Trust. “It is unfortunate that we have come to the point ...
Celebrations in Aotearoa New Zealand to mark the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) will begin on Thursday 21 January with ICAN Aotearoa New Zealand’s Wellington and online event, and continue on Friday ...
Hardly anyone is using their Covid Tracer app. Something needs to change.As the mercury approaches 30°C in Aotearoa, there is a good deal of slipping and slopping, but, let’s face it, piss-all scanning. As few as around 500,000 QR codes are being scanned by users of the NZ Covid Tracer ...
On the East Coast, a group of Māori-owned enterprises is innovating to create new revenue streams while doing what they love.New Zealand’s remote and sparsely populated regions are typically not the best places to create thriving brick-and-mortar businesses. In small communities miles away from any major centres, there are so ...
As we reach the height of summer, it’s not too late to do a safety check on your gas bottle. The Environmental Protection Authority’s Safer Homes programme has some tips and tricks to keep in mind before you fire up the grill. "If you’ve ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1Troy: The Siege of Troy Retold by Stephen Fry (Michael Joseph, $37)If you’re in any way unsure about ...
“We may as well knock on the gang headquarters around this country and tell them we all give up," says Darroch Ball co-leader of Sensible Sentencing Trust. “It is simply outrageous that violent offender, James Tuwhangai, has been released from ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Ireland, Israel, and Lebanon. Chart by Keith Rankin. The countries with the most recent large outbreaks of Covid19 are those with large numbers of recent recorded cases, but yet to record the deaths that most likely will result. In this camp, this time, are Ireland, Israel ...
RuPaul is in Aotearoa, kicking back in managed isolation to await the filming of an Australasian version of her hugely popular reality show Drag Race. But not everyone is happy about, explains Eli Matthewson. The world’s most famous drag queen, RuPaul, is in New Zealand, the government confirmed earlier this week ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Melleuish, Professor, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong What can we make of Clive Palmer? This week, he announced his United Australia Party (UAP) would not contest the upcoming West Australian state election on March 13. After a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gisela Kaplan, Emeritus Professor in Animal Behaviour, University of New England Have you ever seenmagpies play-fighting with one another, or rolling around in high spirits? Or an apostlebird running at full speed with a stick in its beak, chased by a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Jackson, Program Director, Centre for Policy Development, and Associate Professor of Education, Mitchell Institute, Victoria University Childcare centres across Australia are suffering staff shortages, which have been exacerbated by the COVID crisis. Many childcare workers across Australia left when parents started ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Barrett, Senior Lecturer in Taxation, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington Rhetoric plays an important role in tax debate and therefore tax policy. If your side manages to gain traction in the public imagination with labels such as “death ...
*This article was first published on The Conversation and is republished with permission* Whoever leads the Republican Party post-Trump will need to consider how they will maintain the rabid support of his “base”, while working to regain more moderate voters who defected from the party in the 2020 election. In a historic ...
http://gowans.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/stephen-zunes%E2%80%99-false-statements-on-zimbabwe-and-woza/
So very funny.
The sort of typical leftist thinking I read on here all the time.
It all boils down to the big bad neo-imperial capitalistic USA’s fault. Either that or the bankers.
Bugger Gosman, I was too slow to open a sweep stake on the Standard as to how long it would take you to mention your beloved Zimmers. Cuba 10 to 1 anybody?
Do you disagree with the bloggers’ comments Bored?
So now Spain’s in the headlines Gosman, it’s a little more difficult for you to argue irresponsible Government spending, given their fiscal prudence leading up to the GFC.
No their problem was a property bubble, who inflates those again? Oh, that’s right, bankers! And where does the responsibility for the GFC lie, oh, that’s right, speculators and bankers. Where was it’s epicenter, oh, that’s right, Wall St.
But I admire you’re faith, it takes an extraordinary effort to achieve such willful blindness, most don’t know cause they ignore – Adam Curtis notes that economics is boring, and so that is why economists manage to get away with such restlessness – but you clearly read about these things….
Spain isn’t exactly a libertarian free market paradise so I’m not sure why you seem to imply the problems are caused just by banks.
Spain has youth unemployment of around 50%. That suggests there is something wrong with their labour market flexibility. Also the problem is not just dodgy banks but the fact that the Central Government hasn’t got an awful lot of control over regional government’s spending.
Good article on Spain here (admittedly was in 2010)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127069441
Great logic Gos, its all the fault of “labour market flexibility”, superb sidestep of an undeniable criticism of globalisation. Sort of “kill them harder and it will all get better”. And what if it were your children?
If it was my kids I’d want to live in a country where the labour market wasn’t so inflexible that they had a one in two chance of being unemployed for a long time. Luckily that is the case.
What’s your solution to the problem of Spanish youth unemployment by the way? More training perchance? If you read that link you will see that many of the youth unemployed are actually highly educated.
Less globalisation, eradication of capitalism and a rationalisation of the economy so that it actually does what it’s supposed to – support the people and not just the psychopathic few.
Nah, Capitalism’s already dead..
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/capitalism-is-dead-credit-new-king-says-duncan-2012-04-18
So Gosman, that logic eventually leads you to moving your kids to China or Thailand or Cambodia.
And, don’t we have a balance of payments issue in Europe, and artificially suppressed wages in Germans, the deck you’re playing with is rigged, but then that goes back to the link about the death of Capitalism.
this from Berlin last week might also help you understand the banks role in strangling us with debt Gosman
What’s your evidence that Spain’s 50% youth unemployment rate (I’m taking your word for that) is due to labour market inflexibility? (I’m asking for evidence, not assertion of ideological presuppositions.)
Does anything else play a causal role?
Did you bother reading that link I provided? That delves into that very question.
Why do you think there is such high youth unemployment in places like Italy, Greece, and Spain then?
An interesting editorial in today’s Guardian on Spain and the Euro crisis: Until the eve of the banking crisis in 2007, Spain’s unemployment rate was 7.9% and Spain had sounder public finances than Germany.
I heard this morning on Euronews that Mario Monti, the technocrat economist in charge in Italy, is working on labour reform – making it easier to fire people but at the same time make it harder to put people on short-term low wage contracts.
Apparently Italy’s firing rules mean that the worker almost always gets the job back if it is legally challenged, meaning employers prefer contract workers.
Interesting take on labour flexibility. The main aim is to make it is easier for workers to get full-time, permanent jobs and reduce short-term contracts because labour market instability is a bad thing.
So, have the various measures taken by the US (as described in the post you link to) had any effect on the economic viability of Zimbabwe?
If not, are those measures pointless exercises on the part of the US (and, hence, should be withdrawn)?
Clare Curran steams more than Josephine over the Hillside Workshops sale announcement, and calls Key and English liars despite denials they knew about it.
While most of Dunedin is looking for and seems to want to work on positives Curran talks of starting yet another anti campaign, with Metiria Turei.
“and calls Key and English liars despite denials they knew about it. ”
Actually no PG, she said “Liars if they say it’s nothing to do with us”.
Of course this sale is something to do with National – they decided not to get work done in New Zealand, leading to a lack of work at Hillside. Key and English may deny having been told of this sale of state assets, but they cannot deny the link between putting work offshore and an effect locally.
Is a deliberate misquote a lie or incompetence, Pete G?
Surely a combined Union purchase would be acceptable to keep the Dunedin workshop.
There is enough expertise to run it.
This Sky City tender just gets worse and worse. If any other ordinary public servant had conducted a tender process so very badly they would be disciplined at the least; quite possibly sacked
What gets me is the absolute hyposcrisy. Helen Clark signs a painting to raise some money for a charity and it’s the crime of the fucking century.
John Key grossly inteferes in a major tender process, playing very lose with the law over a matter that involves hundreds of millions and substantial social harm…. and all that happens in the media is a mild round of tut-tutting.
It’s like a Labour PM has to be pure and holy, while there’s this understanding that we elect National PM’s to be venal and a little bit corrupt.
That’s right. The media and everyone else is out to get you Red. Suck it up.
That just doesn’t deserve a response…
My summary of the whole saga: the clearest (but by no means only) example we have so far in this government of that nasty old Tory corruption, that uses political power personally linked to big bucks to take more money out of less well off pockets, and put it into better off: and then barefacedly deny they have done anything wrong, or hurt anyone.
That’s most people’s expectations of a Nat govt RL, those with memories of Muldoon would be aghast at the naked corruption and complete arrogance not caring about the wreckage both in NZ and their own part.
Reading gossie etc reminds me of people who would be cheering at a stoning or hanging, what sad trolls. The MSM is not out to do anything therein lies one of the problems.
Shearer’s living wage campaign thingy is brilliant.
It should be made clearer to the public that it is not possible to live on the minimum wage. That we effectively have a wage system that is worse than slavery – at least as a slave you were housed and fed whereas it is not possible to do that on the minimum wage – it needs to be topped up by other taxpayers through various subsidies and handouts like WFF. Effectively the taxpayers are subsidising business.
This should be made clearer.
Of course lifting wages like this would require some heavish adjustments across the economy that would take time and some pain here and there. But the alternative is taxpayers paying for business and wages that one cannot live on. Same amount of money in the economy just spread differently (and its current spread is the result of govt intervention so please no rants that such intervention will distort).
It is actually quite astounding that we have a minimum wage that cannot be survived on. It is a barbaric situation.
Are you suggesting that those on the minimum wage aren’t surviving?
The “living wage” idea potentially has some good points, but it’s very difficult to specify one wage that covers many different circumstances and locations. An eighteen year old living with his parents on a farm in Tuatapere has quite different financial needs to a father of five living in Remuera.
Yes I am suggesting that.
As for the differing circumstances, lets run an anecdotal test right here – hands up all those who could survive in their current circumstances in NZ on the minimum wage. No subsidides, handouts, supplements, WFFs allowed, just the wage.
‘…hands up all those who could survive in their current circumstances in NZ on the minimum wage.’
That is a tautological statement.
Of course the circumstances will change if the income decreases. That is a completely different argument to the one that people are unable to survive on the minimum wage.
Fair enough. Hands up everyone who could survive on the minimum wage, those with families, those who are single, those with other circumstances.
If both my wife and I were on the minimum wage we could manage the mortgage and survive financially.
40 hours at 13.50 = gross pay of $540.00
On an ME tax code net pay is $465.17 per week.
Well that’s good, I guess the cheap property values (buy and rent) in Dunedin help. We, in our circumstances, haven’t a hope in hell.
Score so far: 1-1
So you can survive on minimum wage in this country. You just can’t live in places where the living expenses are greater. Excellent, we have now established that the situation in NZ follows standard economic theory. Do you want to ask us whether we will fall to our deaths if we jump out of plane without a parachute now?
No. So far the score is 1-1. That means one family dies and the other scrimps by. Lovely place innit…
Where’s the evidence that anyone is dying as a result of this?
You egg. Surviving has many levels of definition. waster…
True surviving has multiple meanings. Dies tends to be quite restricted. Unless you are meaning the family fails miserably performing on stage.
Lol – you mean you’re once again asking for direct observational evidence of something that is happening right now, when that evidence takes a year or two to collate? Even though the literature in the field strongly indicates that any tory interwebz warrior who argues that the situation does not exist is a bit of a tool?
the situation in NZ follows standard economic theory.
And standard economic theory suggests those who live in cheaper places are living where there are fewer jobs, so will have to move to more expensive places to improve employment options, making the minimum wage much less than a living wage than it was before. Maybe we should have a flexible minimum wage to go with those flexible employment options.
For the record, I couldn’t live on the minimum – a long-term medical condition with a lot of out-of-pocket medical expenses.
Gosman, let me try to put this in terms that – I think – you’ll understand.
There are two ways to ‘survive’ (i.e., to be ‘sustainable’).
The first way is to keep regenerating your ‘capital’ (i.e., your health, your mental resilience, your ability to participate in society, etc.).
The second way is to live off your ‘capital’ (i.e,. your health, your mental resilience, your ability to participate in society, etc.) and so gradually reduce it while you are physically and biologically ‘surviving’ (i.e., physically and biologically continuing or ‘sustaining’ yourself).
People on the minimum wage are most likely ‘surviving’ in the latter rather than the former sense.
Bollocks fair enough VTO. Gos is just being his usual prize arsehole with some rancid economic rationalist argument to justify people not being able to survive in decent conditions. He does not give a fuck so long as he is OK.
Where’s the evidence for the increase in death’s as a result of not being able to survive?
lolwut?
Oh right, I forgot, you have selective blindness. Because the evidence on poverty leading to increases in death rates is fairly well established in the health and sociology literature and mentioned here oft…
In other words, go google scholar it.
I already have and have posted the result in another thread here. There is no evidence that the death rate has increased over the past 4 or so years.
Keep moving those goalposts and failing reading comprehension 101 Gosikins.
Do yYou disagree that poverty has increased over the past 4 or 5 years in NZ?
Gos, how many people died last year, by cause?
Grouping causes by ICD10-AM chapter heading is fine.
Then get tell me where you got reliable data with <3% variation over the following 12 months.
Sounds as though we now have a growing number of ‘third world disease’ in this country. Some of these leading to death. Pretty sure it’s not the rich suffering from this.
The cause of the higher rates of ‘third world’ diseases can largely be attributed to substandard accomodation. Whether or not someone can survive on minimim wage plays only a very small part in this. That stated I have yet to read an article where mortality has been attributed to ‘third world’ diseases in NZ. Perhaps you can provide a link to something that backs your case up?
So Gos (aka I Am All Right Jack) you say The cause of the higher rates of ‘third world’ diseases can largely be attributed to substandard accommodation… as if this is some absolution from any spurious arguments you have raised prior.
It is easily demonstrable from your statement that according to you this substandard accommodation exists, and that there is a problem. So Gos, do you care?
so if it’s not the wage earner’s fault i guess it’s the landlords for not doing their bit to keep housing standards up, and the landlords are ???? the very investment addicts that gave us the bubbles that inevitably burst, soaking the fruit of community with poison debt that causes them to fall broken upon the ground like scattered weeds, leaving no option than to be sprayed with the stigma of un-met aspirations and covered with the weedmat of bene bashing!
(hyperbole aside, sooner or later gosman you have to face the truth that capitalism is little more than an ouroborus on steroids)
Yep, and people on minimum wage can’t afford better accommodation.
I could, but then I am the exception (being on UB at the minute, I’d be better off on minimum wage!) But that just shows the comparative unlivability of the UB!
Also, I am single and a miser by nature… 🙂
Wow! Someone can live on an income less than the minimum wage. Amazing! Someone inform Ripely’s believe it or not.
“An eighteen year old living with his parents on a farm in Tuatapere has quite different financial needs to a father of five living in Remuera.”
You’re right Pete, a father of five living in Remuera should get less than an imaginary rural teen, because to be there in the first place, and then with five dependents, he’d have few “needs”. Remuera is overun with breadline solo Dads. Doss-houses everywhere, and cheap slum rentals. The place is a magnet for the hard up. A complete horror.
You could be imaginative, though, and choose a rural setting much further north, where there is no farm, but lots of space and no family and not much of a farmhouse. Then you could really lean into the stereotypes. Can’t have society without castes and heirachy, eh Pete?
How is the grass on the octagon this morning, Pete? Anyone muss it up during the night? Bloody scallywags. We should have a discussion about it, about when to have the discussion about doing something, something about something – that should do it. If the situation doesn’t change for the better by itself.
The ex Octagon grass mussers are trying to get the DCC to ban fracking now, saying “many people” support them. I doubt they have 1% support on that.
So PG the whole concept of somebody wanting fracking banned is disagreeable to you? Regardless of who and how unheard they are? Go frack in your own backyard.
Pete’s right: any group that had such a pathetic level of support has no business dictating policy to anyone.
I doubt he’s right about the level of concern about fracking though.
Petes entirely wrong about people with a low level of support not having a valid argument. They are not “dictating” to anybody, try “advocating”.
Yes, I know, I just doubt that anti-fracking groups enjoy such a low level of support. United Follicles, on the other hand…
“it is not possible to do that on the minimum wage – it needs to be topped up by other taxpayers through various subsidies and handouts like WFF. ”
You seem to try and play the ‘middle of the road’ type character Pete. But you do it badly. Mostly because you just come across as a slightly more apolegetic National supporter.
From what I have read your a Peter Dunne follower-which makes a lot of sense. I reckon it’s time to pick a side.
Anyway, being in a postion where I make a lot more than minimum wage and having times where I wonder where my money has gone I often ponder how someone making 13 bucks an hour; A. gets by and B. can afford any type of simple luxury. Which in my opinion any working person should be able to.
A person should not have to work 40 hours a week for just food and shelter in this day and age.
When a person is seen as causing harm to you or your power, then get right up close and friendly. Charm him and make it harder for him to sting.
Patrick Gower is in the swim with John Key and no doubt will be a little less enthusiastic with his stories. Not many political reporters get to swim with the
sharkPM.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10800105#
Oops. “shark” was supposed to be shark. strikethrough.
Edit: still doesn’t work?
Still doesn’t work?
[Bunji: hashtag for strikethrough is “del”]
You mean ‘del’ where the ‘s’ should be -inside the ?
Be good to update the FAQ. I spent ages trying to figure out what I was doing wrong the other day.
Thanks bunji.
SharkIt was in Guides.
Great, love using strikethrough and could never get it to work either.
does that really work?I swear it wasn’t when I looked it up the other day. It said ‘s’
Trying this[lprent: The pages get adjusted when things get pointed out. I guess someone did. ]
Well this is what can happen when you swim with sharks
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/6778063/Giant-shark-kills-man
But but… John Key was the dolphin swimming with sharks
Some US researchers have done a series of pieces of research that through a bit of light on how wealth/prestige reduces compassion for others – especially others in difficult situations or less powerful positions.:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-wealth-reduces-compassion
The research included observing that drivers of more expensive cars were more likely to ignore pedestrians waiting at crossings, and more likely to cut-up other drivers instead of waiting their turn. They also did other research involving keeping “candy” for yourself and leaving some for children.
They should add Key, Nacts and their cronyist, legislation for sale antics to their studies.
It’s a good thing most bankers including John Key are psychopaths. Psychopaths don’t feel anxiety like you and I do which mean they can still sleep soundly in the face of what is coming at us and is created by them.
In fact John Key advising himself in what is arguably to most stunning example of Psychopathic behaviour of a New Zealand Prime Minister is your typical number two of the Hare check-list of Psychopathy: A grandiose sense of self worth.
Do you realise that when you bandy about words like ‘psychopath’ all it does is make you appear very silly.
I’d hate to see Travellerev’s psychological report though. I imagine the phrase ‘paranoid conspiracy theorist’ might pop up though.
Gosman, have you watched The Corporation ? i mean actually watched it, scraped the wax from the ol’ lugholes and listened to its clear and concise information. You know… applied critical thought to new information? Not simply glance up from the Biggles Annual all bleary eyed as Mummy puts milk on your Kornies?
There is a lot of well researched data that shows the psychological behaviour expressed by Companies, and those who run them is nothing short of Psychotic. Have you considered the common ground that supports comments from many of the well educated and highly respected individuals who actually have studied the topic. Have you wondered why so many people came to the same conclusions? Remember, if these companies want to be legal people then the values and standards that we hold people to, should apply to them also.
e.g. how much fun would it be to charge a corporation proper income tax, seeing as they are a legal person and all that.
The weasel ones just say, but they are a business and as such get to pick and choose what is of benefit to us and what is of damage to the people we take from.
There is a word for that: Psychopath
(a person suffering from a disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others and the rules of society)
Plus an extreme lack of empathy and the inability to feel any responsibility for their actions.
Who is pushing for corporations becoming legal people like the rest of us?
Wow. 200 years out of date, and you still have an inflated ego. Fool.
Ummmmmm…..
I stated like becoming legal people like the rest of us. None of the links you provided suggested thay have the same rights as the rest of us.
In fact to quote ‘. Legal entities cannot marry, they usually cannot vote or hold public office,[3] and in most jurisdictions there are certain positions which they cannot occupy’.
No, you asked “who is pushing” for it, not what it is now.
I gave you two links that provide a decent background to the issue, which is incredibly longstanding and has progressively expanded over centuries. Those links included actual references (should you choose to speak from a position of knowledge, rather than just being a dissembling cocksucker. I should have known better).
Denying the truth makes you insane.
O dear, the resident idjit calls me silly and that should worry me how?
Eve I seriously doubt you have ever seen or met a psychopath and I really hope you never do.
I met a person that the consulting psychiatrist had diagnosed being as close to a pure psychopath as diagnostic tests allowed some years ago and it was an extremely disturbing experience.
I can assure you that although many of our politicians merit all the distrust and abuse you can muster none are psychopaths.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/new-study-%E2%80%93-traders-are-worse-psychopaths
Well actually HS both my husband and I are both diagnosed with PTSD after a five year encounter with a serious Psychopath and the experience has given us a unique view on what these assholes are capable off and I can smell a Psychopath from a mile a way as a result.
John Key is a Psychopath and by the time he is done with this country and sashays back into the world he feels best in filled with fellow Psycho’s, I can assure you there will be a lot more people with PTSD in NZ.
Most likely people who lost their income, jobs, benefits, schooling chances, Housing, Houses and ACC compensations and who as a result have to live in cars, garages, and on the streets.
But don’t worry the pretty girls can find jobs in the super brothel and the boys can be croupiers in Sky city and if your not so pretty but you are lucky you can become a dishwasher in the new convention centre or work in the cigarette packing factory owned by Aussie owners who like our low wages and easy 90 day fire at will clause courtesy of Psycho John Key.
Derp:
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/kids-punished-opting-bible-class-4842662
And this is why religious classes are problematic as standard social primate behaviours lead to exclusion and coercion and the usual suspects aren’t all that interested in discussing other religions, except in how Christianity is better than them. Usually.
Religion should not be taught in school time. If the religious nutters want to teach their kids to be as stupid as them then they can do it after school.
I hope you know that the Education Act says that it can’t be? I know this Peter Harrison person of old, and he’s not beyond inventing things to whip up hysteria about – he is a ‘poor pitiful us’ atheist… one of those who claims persecution 100 times a day. 😀
Bigotry.
(Back in the 1960s, we had a prayer at assembly, before school began, and I well remember one girl who was horribly miserable when her parents came to make a big stink and a loud performance out of dragging her out, loudly proclaiming that as atheists, they disapproved. We her classmates didn’t harass her, the teachers didn’t harass her, her parents harassed her to say that she wanted to be excused, even though she couldn’t have cared less about a 30 second prayer. My father was an atheist, but he didn’t want to make a meal out of it.)
Which means that the Education Act is wrong.
Generally speaking, I couldn’t care less about the religious. I get pissed off when they demand that we make allowances for them and that their religion be forced upon society.
Which just shows that you missed the point and haven’t learned anything since – she, and the rest of the children, shouldn’t have had religion forced upon.
BTW, the children did try to harass me when I decided (yes, me not my parents) to ignore religious class at school. The bible thumping teachers weren’t too happy about it either.
Ah, if you think so, take it up with the Min of Ed. 😀
An attack of the poor pitifuls there, mate! Who’s forcing it on you? Maybe you hate that we breathe the same air you do… would you choose Sam Harris’ and Dawkins’ solution? (For the record, forcible incarceration in mental hospitals, which goes with automatic loss of custody of our kids, and I assume, sterilisation, all “for the good of society”. Given Harris is an American, it’s hard to know what he means by society…
Obviously, I did miss the point then. I thought she wanted to do what most of us did, which was to ignore a very tiny part of the day and get on with our Larry’s Rebels fantasies, I didn’t realise anything was being forced on us! (Which of course it wasnt’. Teenagers, even if they are girls I add for your benefit) are capable of ignoring something they don’t want to hear.
Oh, a proper little Dawkins in the making, what a precious, precocious wee genius you were! Your parents must have been so proud. Bible thumping teachers – what was your school, Dotheboys Hall? Sir Lord Herr Professor Dawkins tells the same story – about how he as a 6 year old impressed parents and grandparents with his precocious infant grasp of subtleties and arguments undreamt of by generations that had lived and died before him. ‘Scuse me while I giggle and snort… and oh dear, I had better stop here – with an ego the size of yours, comes great sensitivity to even imaginary slights…
We’re not talking about ‘teenagers’ Vicky. It’s primary schools.
And where do you get off just assumming that the story is a lie?
Honestly, do you think it’s good enough that primary school children who are not part of these programmes are looked after in a way that makes them feel like they are being punnished?
Do you think it’s appropriate for religious instructers to be telling primary age kids that dinosaurs didn’t exist?
It looks to me like you are the one with the ‘poor ;little me’ syndrome going on. it looks like just because someone is criticising something allegedly Christian, you feel the need to jump in and attack the people complaining about it.
I was talking with a woman today about this story, and she told me she opted out of the classes after her 5 year old daughter was told by the instructer that “didn’t have god in her heart” and that she would “burn like toast”.
Now 5 yr olds sometimes hear things in a way that they weren’t intended, but that means adults have to be pretty careful in how they talk about things with them.
These classes are due for a bit of a looking at I reckon, and schoools absolutely need to have good systems in place for the children who do not take part.
What story are you saying I said was a lie?
Of course it’s not appropriate – if it is happening! Given that the Education Act says that education in NZ must be “free, secular and compulsory”, I really don’t see that what’s alleged can be blamed on the school.
Sorry, that’s a story I really don’t believe! I know Christians, even the kind I now avoid, the evangelicals who are portrayed in the media as saying such things – and I know that in reality they don’t say such things to children!
(They do in Hollywood, and on HBO, of course, but not in NZ, and certainly not in schools.)
Definitely, if they are what you say they are. My son was at school from 1992 to 2007, and I assure you that ‘Bible in Schools’ in the 1990s, consisted of 10 minutes before 08.30. Leon opted out with my blessing, despite my being a Christian, I have always believed that the Education Act is fine as it is. In fact, almost everybody opted out as it was simply too early for everyone, including parents who, like us, lived 5 minutes walk from the school.
What story are you saying I said was a lie?
I assumed this was in relation to the story linked to.
And I’m not sure from the rest of your comment that you actually know how this stuff works in many schools. It’s not ten minutes before class, it’s often 1/2 an hour during the day. To comply with the education act the school ‘closes’ for the time of the classes. The instructers are not employed by the school, they are usually volunteers, but the school is very much responsible for chooing who will be running the program. If inapropriate things are going on, the school has the responsibility to sort it out.
And as for you calling my acquaintence a liar based on nothing more than your alleged knowledge of what all christians in NZ would say? Umm, perhaps re-read what I wrote.
Do you really think it unbelievable that an untrained but enthusiastic evangelical might phrase things poorly, such that a 5 year old child might think they were talking to and about them rather than generally?
Do you honestly think it is not possible that an evangelical might evangelise to children, and talk about the consequences of not having ‘Jesus in your heart’?
Happen it’s changed since L, was at school? How is it you know? From my reading of the Standard, I know that maybe 5 Standardistas actually have children, and of the regulars, maybe 2 have… You are not one of them. Still, that’s not relevant, and too easily twisted by you, so moving on..
Yes, I do find it completely unbelievable! As I said I actually know Christians, and not just as characters in HBO dramas, or hate figures and no evangelical would ever say such a thing to a 5 year old as your friend quoted them as saying. Now you’re back-tracking, and claiming it was something different, so what was it, an ‘untrained but enthusiastic evangelical’ or what my old mother would have called a ‘complete and utter luniac’? If it’s the luniac saying “burn in hell”, there’s no way that’s true, and mother no doubt invented what daughter said, dreaming it all up through the veil of her own fears and prejudice.
Not in the words you claimed, no. Not to 5 year olds. I find it somewhat amusing that you are frantically back-pedalling. Did you have a chat to your friend in the mean time? Did she tell you that exaggeration can amount to lying as Peter Woss-name no doubt did? (In his case to great effect – a TV item no less!)
Most of the authors have kids at various ages. The only one I know who doesn’t is me. I just got to be uncle across my nieces, nephews, cousins, etc – especially when they hit their teens.
I was talking with a woman today about this story, and she told me she opted out of the classes after her 5 year old daughter was told by the instructer that “didn’t have god in her heart” and that she would “burn like toast”.
Now 5 yr olds sometimes hear things in a way that they weren’t intended, but that means adults have to be pretty careful in how they talk about things with them.
That was what I said, and I haven’t ‘backtracked’ in the slightest from it, so your amusement is based on your failure to read what I said.
The education Act hasn’t changed on this for a long time. I’ve Known how it works since I was at school, where we had a similar program. It is also discussed in the article from yesterday:
You seem to be remembering the way your sons school did things, and assuming that all schools do it that way. There is no basis for this belief, which you know if you had bothered to read the links, and think about them, rather than get all defensive about ‘atheists’.
I’m done with this. I’m taking my son (who I have mentioned numerous times on this blog, so you may need to update your spreadsheet of standartista famial status) to a comic convention today.
“From my reading of the Standard, I know that maybe 5 Standardistas actually have children, and of the regulars, maybe 2 have… You are not one of them. Still, that’s not relevant, and too easily twisted by you, so moving on.. “
lolz. Oh Vicky, you do say some fucking ridiculous things when you’re speaking in tongues.
And oh so predictable too…
We can’t have any semi-civil discussions here about secularism without Vicky turning up and playing the persecution complex card /smugface
And of course, she misses the whole human rights issue concerning witnessing and it’s exploitative nature in terms of social networks and the negative consequences therein on children. Particularly in teh context of school environs and bullying…
The kids shouldn’t need to opt out – religion shouldn’t be in schools during school time. Really, how hard is it to understand that?
The religious are and it’s not upon me but upon children who are incapable of differentiating between truth and BS. The schools should not have to make time available for religion.
Yes it was – you had to go to the assembly and listen to the prayer didn’t you? That’s force because you had no choice.
What a surprise, not happy with the message you then resort to ad hominem attack
I quite liked the allegation that wanting a genuinely secular education equalled wanting religious people forcibly detained on mental health grounds.
That logical leap certainly suggested that one religious advocate might be closer to quaifying than others.
And that’s how people like you end up ruining the reputation of the people who comment here that y’all have decided to hate – by pretending we said things we didn’t say!
I have a degree in education. I have said loud and long through out this thread that I want and agree with the secular education that is mandated by the Education Act. Yet you pretend I said otherwise. Read back to what I actually said, and try to restrain your impulse to lie about what Christians say. I was quoting Sam Harris, numb-nuts, he’s the one who said he wants Christians locked up so they can’t indoctrinate ‘innocent children’.
lulz, I do <3 it when apologists quote mine atheists and claim Harris and Dawkins want parents incarcerated for forcing their religious beliefs on their children (and others), when all they did is point out the exploitative nature of much of conversion and it's occasional perturbing closeness to non-physical forms of child abuse.
So, by all means Vicky, provide us with teh quotes that show they want to do what you claim they do. Or make a retraction.
“Yes it was – you had to go to the assembly and listen to the prayer didn’t you? That’s force because you had no choice.”
Yes, that’s my experience at primary school too. We had a Jewish girl in our class who was made to stand outside the hall during religious education – stand, not sit, and nor was she allowed to go elsewhere. I thought she was lucky (I didn’t understand religious intolerance then, but that was a good starting point in learning) and I tried to see if I could join her, but sadly I had no letter from my parents asking to be excused. So yeah – forced religious instruction for the masses.
Really, I don’t know what to say to this! Will the story include a yellow star and a Judenfrei banner next time?
Where did you go to school? New Zealand? Seriously, I doubt it. I attended a state primary school in New Zealand (a state one, note – I wasn’t in the socio-economic band for private education, and we didn’t have any such thing as RE.) The girl I spoke of at our High School was the child of campaigning atheists, and was excluded by them, and was very unhappy about it (I would have been as well, being made the subject of such a drama.) I am sorry for waxing sarcastic above – but seriously, the story of the poor little Jewish girl made to adopt a stress position outside the classroom, seems such a novelistic one! HBO strikes again – the Jewish kids in Rotorua primary, intermediate and secondary schools that I attended, all two of them, were the children of my Mum’s best childhood friend, and always made a point of flaunting their superior socio-economic status at us, carrying on Esther’s childhood rivalry with our Mum…
Gosh Vicky, you do exaggerate – stress position… 🙄
On cue – that sort of religious intolerance lol.
Oh, so, I am the intolerant one? Don’t be absurd. I asked you a heap of questions, because your story doesn’t sound very true to me… not true of a state school in NZ anyway, but instead of answering, you make with the insults.
I am reminded of the IDF, and their charming habits when it comes to tormenting Palestinian children. Sorry, Jews have used up all their sympathy chips with me…
State primary school – Waikato.
btw – a Jewish primary school girl in NZ !=Zionist thugs in Palestine. So yes, that sort of intolerance.
What part of the Education Act (which I keep quoting) do you not understand? Schools do not have to make time available for religion!
Cry me a river. No, we didn’t have to go to assembly. We could do as half the school did, and be late! To you all these years later, it’s a massively big deal – to us in 1966 to 1971, it was literally nothing. As I say, my father was an atheist, but a far more tolerant fair-minded one than most I’ve met, especially here! (Working class, English, a far cry from the upper middle class New Zealander with the massive chip on theshoulder that one encounters on the Standard.) He was ‘down the school’ at any hint of anything unjust, but not about this – he was not as insecure about his childrens’ intelligence as you are (although I assume that as you don’t have children, your concern is for theoretical children, whom you assume are all a bit thick…
Then why is this shit happening at school and in school time? Oh, that’s right, because some religious arseholes decided to make it available and then when children opt out they get ostracised. All the act should say is that religion should not be taught at school in school time.
BTW, you haven’t quoted the education act yet – you’ve merely said what you believe it contains.
Perhaps he didn’t realise that it was unjust.
Really? If I did that at any of the schools I went to I ended up in detention and/or getting caned.
lulz.
Anyhow, I find it most interesting that Vicky’s avoiding the current issue via diving into the past and trying to establish some sort of ground on which to normalise religious instruction in state schools.
Good grief you are a moron aren’t you?!
How many times do I have to say that I don’t support religious education in state schools? Could I say it any more plainly? I am reminded of the way y’all distort what Gosman and Pete George say, and then work your way up to a few cluster f bombs, and shit-storms of hate and indignation about what you said they said, not what they said! Because what I just said will turn into my supporting Pete and Gosman I want it on record that I don’t support them, I just think it would be a much better look for the Standard if you actually answered what they say and not what you wish they had said…
My crime seems to be that I questioned the truthfulness of some of the bizarre novelistic stories people here are telling about friends, and their children, and the children of friends of friends, and their own primary schooling any time between 5 and 55 years ago… I well know the temptation to exaggerate to make a good story better – the only problem is, that you risk losing all credibility 🙂 especially when you tell the exaggerated story to someone who happens to actually know something about the subject – in my case, of state schooling in New Zealand between the 1960s and the 2000s.
You mean when I tell you what is happening in the real world, right now, and you pooh pooh it because it does not fit your pre-conceived ideas.
Not exaggerated stories. fact!
What I know it contains, idiot. Look it up!
Working class, English, but he was still intelligent. You ‘lefties’ amuse me greatly, you’re all such snobs! Real lefties would make a meal of you…
Boys’ and boarding schools obviously! Are you one of those self-pitying men who constantly wail that it’s so unfair that girls weren’t caned? (Cause we weren’t 😀 ) You miss the point that because assembly was officially before school started (or there couldn’t have been a prayer, could there?) it wasn’t compulsory?
Vicky.
You are the one talking crap.
My kids primary school closed once a week for religious indoctrination. For half an hour. Unfortunately it was after my kids bus arrived so they were at school, anyway.
Because a few religious parents had taken over the board.
After my 5 year old started going on about nailing people up, including waking up with nightmares about it, I withdrew them.
We would never allow 5 year olds to be told about such extreme torture and violence except under the cover of religion.
The schools “Christians’ put all the kids who were not doing religion in the hall with no books, games, or anything else to do, or supervision.
Just recently a gay teenager of my acquaintance was told by the Baptist paster of a youth group that he was going to burn in hell.
Lovely people, Christians.
Not to mention all the adds for teachers, for publicly funded schools, which say that teachers must support the “special character”, i.e. religious indoctrination of students, of the school.
My experience is that those who believe in one load of crap, like sky fairies, are much more likely to believe in others, like creationism, Austrian economics or John Key.
I think you have made the very common, and understandable error of confusing people who believe in a God, with fundamentalists…. who fool everyone and themselves that they believe in a God… but who don’t.
In my world fundamentalists are people who are completely blind and unaware of the real nature of religion which is actually about abstract and evanescent qualities such as justice, compasssion and dignity. Because of this blindness they construct instead a facade of a religion based on institutions, rituals and rules.
Which is what you experienced. I’m saddened and sorry to read how it has hurt people you know.
No True Scotsman alert.
And no, your version of religion is not the one “real” one as any look at believers beliefs quickly shows…
Seconded, RedLogix! 😀
Crafar Farms official status: SOLD,
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10800234
funny how the Chinese owners seem ok to talk about selling farms to NZ interests,
So i guess it was just the National party who didn’t like the idea
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10800148
http://www.linz.govt.nz/sites/default/files/docs/overseas-investment/oio-recommendation-crafar-farms-20120420.pdf
and what ???? the OIA spinmeisters can go fly a kite, it is easy to release a document that supports pre-determined findings. The facts remain that NZ was simply not given the same opportunities to buy these farms that were offered overseas.
OIO does as it’s told and it’s been a rubber stamp for selling out NZ ever since it was created.
Draco
Which Government in 2005 revised the Overseas Investment Commission to the Overseas Investment Office with many changed directions – which have now been fullfilled.
What’s that got to do with anything? The OIO doesn’t see itself as regulating the selling off of NZ but assisting with that sell off.
Yup. OIO might as well rename itself National’s Divestment Office.
We,as in the we of New Zealand would seem to have 2 choices vis a vis the looming rental ‘price crunch’ facing those whose only means of accommodation is ‘to rent’,
Choice 1 is to build our way out of a situation where for many of those on low and fixed incomes accommodation costs take between 50 and 70% of their income, a situation destined to become progressively worse as capital and labour are directed into the Christchurch rebuild leaving tenants in other city’s to face a growing shortage of accommodation along with the inevitable ‘rack renting’ that comes with such shortages,
Choice 2 is to simply enact legislation requiring rental accommodation to be leased on the basis of 25% of the income of any and all tenants to be housed in that particular accommodation….
Celebrating 50 years of dumbing down and brainwashed people, yay!
US slams Australia’s on-shore cloud fixation
So, the “trade barrier” that the US is complaining about is the fact that the US government isn’t trusted.
So once they push the TPPA through, how will that keep the “Yanks” out…
Interesting article – thanks for the link.
One quick reboot coming up. Looks like there is a problem in the network today..
Back again… Now does that correct the slow comments issue.
Ah. I wondered. So far it’s much faster for me.
I wonder if shark swimmer works now? (Strikeout)
Edit: No it doesn’t.
Naturally poisonous water?
There is nothing natural about our waterways becoming poisonous!
Reminds me of the lies that were told about the “e-coli cucumbers” in Europe.
Yup it was all the fault of the organic farmers!
Is anyone else getting an email from Iprent regarding subscription manager? It is in a foreign language. Germam? Dutch?
What? Checking. It probably the frigging jetpack reactivating.
Nope. There is an option to get emails of comments on a post (just under the reply box). Did you hit that? What post….
“Today’s New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows Prime Minister John Key’s National Party (49.5%, up 5.5%) improving its standing to its highest since last year’s NZ Election. The improvement in National’s vote comes at the expense of the two main Opposition parties — Labour (26.5%, down 4%) and the Greens (12.5%, down 4.5%) — the Greens result is similar to their polling achieved prior to the high achieved in the last Morgan Poll conducted at the time of Earth Hour.
So, between this one and the last one, which of the two do you think is most likely to be the rogue one?
Do you have a link Doug? I can only find Australian poll. Thanks.
I can’t find ACT. Anyone know what happened to them? The gap between the current Government and the opposition is still just a few points and this poll was conducted before Jackpot John outed himself as a casino shill.
If it’s not a rogue poll for Labour, they have a fair bit of work ahead of them 😛
I recon it’s more a rogue poll for the Nat’s as they seem to be registering a bit too high given current events. National is serving up their unpopular legislation early in their term to get it out of the way, and hope people forget about it come next election season. So yeah 49.5% sounds a tad high. I would have thought some kind of slight decline would make more sense, so maybe this is the rogue.
Greens are probably registering a bit low, 15%+/- seems more reasonable, they have been very effective and confident in parliament. They raise good points, they are definitely set to become our third major party imo.
Of course I have no frigging idea how people would vote, just basing all this conjecture on my personal theories and observations of attitudes of people whom I interact with.
NZ1 seems pretty constant.
ACT are a joke – at least the electorate recognise that much 🙂
If nats go up next poll I’ll get drunk. I suspect they might not, though 🙂
Agree, ACT are a joke. They won’t be there next time.
Regardless of the non too subtle swings between polls, public support for the Nats is likely to still sit well above Labour, and still around the same as Labour/Greens combined. All this after a difficult few weeks for the government.
John Key must be pleased.
And you coming from your usual impartial perspective sound happy too.
Just an observation Fendles
NZ know Act are a joke – but Epsom know that it’s an extra electorate seat for the nats. So – barring personal tragedy or criminal proceedings – banks will be there next time. The tosser.
Left and right are always going to balance out broadly. A year ago National could have comfortably governed alone – even up to or over 60 with its coalition partners.
So far it is a spike against the trend. Key must be relieved that the knives that were half drawn have gone a bit back into the sheath. But I think he’d be looking for it to go back down to ~45-6 on a good day next time, and the knives will be out if it goes to 44-3.
I’m not sure that the Epsom seat is worth forgoing seeing as they poll so low (or not at all) and won’t take additional seats with them. They only cause unneeded embarrassment to National.
I don’t think Key will be relieved, I dont think he was worried to begin with. And I’m not sure where you’re suggesting these knives were being drawn from?
Tories are like sharks. If one starts to bleed, the others attack it.
As for the relative value of a single seat – they know that right now. It is a single seat that will let them sell public assets, sell legislation to casinos, and continue selling New Zealanders down the river.
ianmac
http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4764/
cheers.
Anne 5.1.1.1
13 April 2012 at 10:47 am
“when is it going to start penetrating skulls and being reflected in the polls?”
Your average Kiwi has a skull as thick as a Neanderthal and a brain to match.
Can anyone (rwnj’s excepted) doubt it now?
Lol, Looks like dpf deleted a post:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/04/general_debate_20_april_2012.html#comment-958211
Thread in question was called something like “Occupying mp” and anout about some crap or other, with the commenters all calling Dalziell a drunk and blah blah blah.
Remember that time dpf had a hissy fit when Idiot Savant said a Nat mp was drunk in the house, and I/S apologised and stuff.
Yeah.
Cache
…and an apology post appears…
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/04/retraction.html
I didn’t bother soiling my eyeballs by clicking on the links, but I get the impression that Judith Collins should get Leanne Dalziell’s lawyers 🙂
Hehe
There is one problem though. Collins needs to show that Mallard and Little were also talking crap …
I wonder if the slithery one has also retracted his post?
Ok, that apology gets Farrar of the hook. Probably. But where does that leave David Garrett? KB was just the conduit for his outburst. I’m guessing that Dalziell has a far more actionable case than Judith Collins could ever hope to muster on the basis of his repeated and, clearly, unprovable allegations. How many strikes is it now for Garrett?
I read that post yesterday and thought he was taking “a readers email” a bit far. According to Farrar it was beyond scrutiny and 100% accurate. And he was basing all these accusations and things on this “readers email”.
A judgment based solely on the prosecution is a worthless judgment.
worthless ..,
and now sheesh you should that old horse david garrett going crazy. what a cesspit – stinky stinky bleeaargh …
I wonder if the “reader” who sent the “email” is a mate of “Bill and Mary Smith” 😀
Ta-Nehisi Coates: The Blacks and the Conservatives and his follow-up post: Racism vs. the Race Card. The video in his second post is well worth the watch.
I find myself up late and working – what’s everyone talking about? It always helps me get my work done quicker ha..
I know – that milford dart tunnel. Gotta get more and faster – its the only way. But once there is more and faster and it all settles down, how are they going to get even morer and even fasterer? That’s what I would like to know because I don’t think they have actually thought about that. Or rather, they dont really care about that. It’s all just a good capital making exercise.
No reply button under this little gem, and I can’t remember who said it now, as every man and his dog seems to have decided to get in on the more-atheist-than-you act… 😀
I am not a fundamentalist, therefore I don’t speak in tongues, but that doesn’t even matter as whoever said it was typing one handed, he was so in love with his own cleverness
I don’t go in for effing and blinding, and insults, as I don’t see the need. Pity you do!
For whoever it was said he was taking his son to Armageddon, all I can say it, I hope my son doesn’t meet you there, and that you can’t identify him… He’s an atheist right now, but things like facts don’t stop you men when you’re on a roll making with the ‘cleverness’!
It was me who mentioned my son, because you claimed he doesn’t exist. Just another thing you were wrong about in this thread.
Other things you were wrong about includes how the religious education in schools program operates. Contra what you were saying, it isn’t at all limited to ten minutes before school, and it often is in the middle of the day, for uop to an hour a week. These facts were noted in the story linked to in the comment that started the discussion.
Aside from that your comments have mainly been that evryone else must be lying about their experiences because , umm, you can vouch for how all christians in NZ would act, because you know some, and everyone else here just gets their views about Christians from the TV. Or something.
And by the way, speaking in tongues is a pentacostal thing, not all pentacostalists are fundamentalist, and by an even greater stretch nor are all fundamentalists are pentacostal.