Open mike 20/07/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 20th, 2011 - 105 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

105 comments on “Open mike 20/07/2011 ”

  • Comments are now closed

    • freedom 1.1
      20 July 2011 at 9:01 am

      It sems the Stuff site does not like people mentioning Shipley’s place on the board of the Chinese Constrction Bank or the fact she was part of a rural Southland property tour with Chinese investors last year. My submitted comment on Stuff (about 430pm) yesterday seems to have been ‘misplaced’ because Stuff wouldn’t censor factual statements. Would it?

      • freedom 1.1.1
        20 July 2011 at 9:47 am

        the following is the comment i submitted to Stuff yesterday which has not been posted

        ” If the Government pick up the travel costs, accommodation etc as they will have to anyway, then why are these people not doing this for a nominal perdiem? Every person on this panel could well afford to do it for free. Surely the rebuilding of CHCH is more important than another fee collection.

        Also why is a current board member of the China Construction Bank,(China’s third largest bank) namely Jenny Shipley, on the panel and what are her intentions and or instructions? Surely her South Island interests were fully displayed by all the rural property Investment tours she personally attended last year”

        How is this any different from the other comments posted?
        Or do you think the “…instructions” question crossed a line.
        I would like to know what you guys and gals think…
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/5309089/Jenny-Shipley-on-Cera-review-panel

        • millsy 1.1.1.1
          20 July 2011 at 11:59 pm

          Also why is a current board member of the China Construction Bank,(China’s third largest bank) namely Jenny Shipley

          Shipley wears her pro-China views on her sleeve.

          I guarantee it she will be heading our puppet Chinese controlled government when they end up occupying us.

  2. travellerev 2
    20 July 2011 at 9:21 am

    Oh, this is getting better and better:
    The Bank of America reported a record loss of $9.1 billion in the last quarter of last year due to its record-breaking settlement over subprime mortgage claims stemming from the financial crisis!
    Apparently they lost $ 0.90 on the dollar on their shares! Added to that they have put $ 14 Billion aside for more repayments to angry investors in their dodgy mortgage derivatives products.
    BoA bought Merrill Lynch when it collapsed due to it’s exposure to these selfsame products and John Key’s shares in Merrill were converted to BoA shares.
    Is this perhaps why he is so worried about the state if America’s economy and why he is meeting with some of the hoipeloi of the US finance world such as Geithner during his “state visit”?
    Does it mean that for every $ 1 million in shares he now only owns $ 1.000.000?

    • Colonial Viper 2.1
      20 July 2011 at 9:52 am

      Nope no such luck, BAC lost $0.90 per share, which they then padded up with accounting trickery to make it look like a $0.33 EPS gain. Clever eh. But none of the serious players are fooled in the slightest.

      a loss per share is merely a measure of how the company did financially; however shareholders do not actually lose that money per share personally as the loss is onfined to the company itself.

      The way shareholders lose out is the negative response of the market (i.e. the share price dropping – and BAC has been dropping for a long time now – the insiders know that they are toast and have been quietly selling into every rally).

      • travellerev 2.1.1
        20 July 2011 at 10:03 am

        Would the sell off of John Key’s shares be open to public scrutiny as they are not in his blind trust?

        Would him selling them off be insider trading?

        Would it show he still has considerable interests in the International “too big to fail” banks making his Prime Minister role fraught with conflict of interest?

        And why are his shares not sensitive to the actual share price? He did concede that he lost value in the collapse of ML but that he had diversified in time by selling some of his shares! (Just honest curiosity here)

        • travellerev 2.1.1.1
          20 July 2011 at 10:14 am

          And added to that; this is what Tyler Durden of Zero Hedge has to say about the BoA fiasco and he is usually right!

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2
          20 July 2011 at 10:19 am

          Well it would only be insider trading if someone was forewarned of the financial result before it was made public.

          The thing is, US financial markets have stopped pretending to be credible, impartial, exchanges for buying and selling now. (This has been the case for the last few years). The entire set up is rigged like a casino. Oridnary investors and retirement funds get totally destroyed on a daily basis as the game makers skim money millisecond by millisecond.

          Put another way, the only real serious trading in the international financial markets today is insider trading. For instance, everyone who needs to know, already knows whether the Federal Reserve is going to print more money in QE3 and who that money is likely to go to.

          And why are his shares not sensitive to the actual share price?

          Not sure I understand your point; the value of his shares will certainly directly reflect the share price of the day. If the share price drops 10%, so will the realisable value of the shares that he holds should he wish to sell on that day.

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.1.1
              20 July 2011 at 10:31 am

              haha sorry about that

              Yeah as you know, companies can report a loss, and the shareprice will rocket up on the basis that the loss was less than expected.

              In this case, the big banks have been padding their numbers in a big way and soon its gonna be obvious that the emperor has no clothes, even with mounds of interest free money care of the US tax payer.

              Its gonna be uglier than 2008.

              • travellerev …
                20 July 2011 at 11:15 am

                Here is what I said in April 2008 on this blog about what was going to happen!

                I told you so. LOL!!! (God, that feels good) No not you CV, but all the other philistines here.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  20 July 2011 at 11:19 am

                  🙂 very nice.

                  Hard assets count in this new world, vege gardens, hydrodams, steel, silver, gold, clean water, a full tank of gas, a well insulated home with solar hot water, and good relations with friends, neighbours and family.

                  • travellerev …
                    20 July 2011 at 11:23 am

                    Have all that! (Well… maybe not the gold but I hear your own distilled is a good bartering tool too. LOL)

                  • lprent …
                    20 July 2011 at 11:26 am

                    Nah, look at what used to trade over the long duration land and sea trade routes in the past. Look at the dutch east indies or the land route between europe and india. Try pepper and other spices.

                    If you go back further in history then you look at the salt caravans that allowed people to live inland.

                    • travellerev …
                      20 July 2011 at 11:30 am

                      In WWII in Europe tobacco and alcohol were major bartering tools. People didn’t give a fuck about spices. they didn’t have the food to spice in the first place (In Holland in the last year of the war people ate cats and tulip bulbs. hence the name tulip munchers which contrary to popular belief are not on our daily menu and taste pretty horrible)

                    • freedom …
                      20 July 2011 at 11:41 am

                      When/If it all goes pear-shaped and after the inital ‘problems’ things will eventually settle.We have plenty of wood for building and still have ability to run forges, mine essentials etc. We have a range of herbs and spices we can grow here, we can make bread and have plenty of milk. There is more than enough land to grow veges and fruit so feeding people will be possible. Which is nice.
                      The true horror awaiting us all is what the hell do we do about coffee?

                    • travellerev …
                      20 July 2011 at 11:45 am

                      I have a coffee and some tea plants too. But the coffee won’t fruit here but perhaps up in the Northland area?

                    • lprent []
                      20 July 2011 at 2:23 pm

                      I’m pretty sure it is too cold there as well (and isn’t likely to rise enough), and not the best soils for it.

                      But I’d bet you’d have problems even with bananas down there…

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      20 July 2011 at 11:49 am

                      interestingly, NZ is going to do OK on renewable salt 🙂

                    • travellerev …
                      20 July 2011 at 2:27 pm

                      No I, We actually can grow bananas here. I’ve got a couple of friends who do. I haven’t started yet

                    • felix …
                      20 July 2011 at 7:19 pm

                      Yeah, I’ve had good bananas here. Small but fat and very sweet.

                      The only challenge is getting to them before the birds do.

    • Bored 2.2
      20 July 2011 at 9:53 am

      Key must be shitting himself on a personal financial basis. When you consider that the political elite worldwide hold their wealth in much the same places as Key it becomes really easy to understand why gains are privatized and losses socialized. What Obama is effectively proposing to Congress and the Senate currently is to extend the bail out at the future expense of the taxpayer, to be paid for as the Tea party suggests by slashing pensions, welfare etc. It is the 21rst century equivalent of “let them eat cake”, willful blindness to reality just to keep the show ticking over a little longer.

      Key might not be the only person worried. The majority of the dairy industry here is in hock to the finance industry. Over the last fortnight world dairy prices crashed nearly 7%. This plus the rising dollar must be worrying both farmers and financiers, they are both facing the barrel. Anybody for a cheap polluted piece of land, going fast?

      Yesterday I commented on the strange state of point price inflation and overall deflation. Watch the markets to respond with far more emotional illogic than usual. The DOW surged a few % yesterday on the basis that Obama would extend the bail out…any regression they will crash. The whole system is clearly out of touch with the world around it.

  3. John Dalley 3
    20 July 2011 at 9:30 am

    I had the same thought as No Right Turn in wondering if he who would be dictator of Christchurch had actually asked if those appointed to the CERA advisory board would actuslly do the job for the standard rate. I see this morning he is refering to John Hansen the boards chair not actually submitting asn invoice or asking for payment. Does that make John Key & Brownlee liars?

  4. Colonial Viper 4
    20 July 2011 at 9:54 am

    Violence likely if US income/wealth in equality deteriorates further

    Slightly worrying when its CNN saying this, and they are doing it in all seriousness.

    http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=15271

  5. prosaic 5
    20 July 2011 at 10:20 am

    I thought this media statement by Phil Goff was worthy of note but haven’t seen it picked up by any media…

    Playcentre closures not an option
    Anne Tolley should immediately rule out a proposal to slash funding to Playcentre, a 70-year-old institution attended by generations of Kiwi kids, Labour Leader Phil Goff says.

    A Government taskforce looking into investment in the early childcare sector is calling for a 63% cut in funding to Playcentre, a move the Playcentre Federation says will force the country’s 460 centres to close.

    “To borrow a quote from National, that sort of cut is like taking a dagger to the heart of New Zealand’s children,” Phil Goff said. “My kids went to Playcentre. To think of it not being there for other kids is a real concern.”

    “This Government has already slashed subsidies to ECE centres, with funding cuts to more than 2000 services over the last year affecting 93,000 children and resulting in fee rises for thousands of families

    “It abandoned the target for having 100 per cent qualified teachers and its policy of improving ratios for children under two to 1:4. Now it’s attacking what has come to be seen as a world-leader in low-cost, parent-led early childhood education.

    “It’s a complete about-face. The Prime Minister’s chief science advisor has continually stressed the importance of early childhood education, noting that investment in the earlier years results in less expenditure later.

    “Here’s Paula Bennett in 2006: ‘Parent-led centres are the backbone of many communities…parents and their children get huge advantages from attending kohanga reo and Playcentres. It would be a big blow to many communities to not have these centres supported.’

    “And in 2008 Anne Tolley attacked Labour on the issue, saying ‘Labour does not think that parents who take their kids to Playcentre are worth supporting…’

    “Well Anne Tolley, Labour does back our Playcentres. They’ve long been a valuable part of ECE and a great training ground for parents. Our message to the Minister is – step in and act now,” Phil Goff said.

    • sophie 5.1
      20 July 2011 at 2:18 pm

      Thanks for pointing that out I have posted it on FB in the hope that more people will see it. Playcentre is an amazing organisation for families to be involved in.

      • prosaic 5.1.1
        20 July 2011 at 2:29 pm

        Thanks for spreading the word–I don’t do FB. ACE Aotearoa (Adult and Community Ed) has also done a media release:
        Media Release

        July 19 2011

        Valuable Whānau Learning Opportunities Threatened by
        Proposed Funding Cuts to Playcentres

        ACE Aotearoa is concerned that proposed funding cuts to Playcentres pose
        a threat to whānau learning in Aotearoa. The umbrella organisation for the
        Adult and Community Education Sector actively promotes the concept of
        families learning together because of the huge benefits it brings for families
        and communities.

        ACE Aotearoa co- chair Wendel Richardson says when families learn
        together, everyone benefits. “There are many examples of how models of
        family learning enhance the wellbeing of families and communities. Some
        studies have shown that families benefit financially when parents learn
        alongside their children.”

        For over 70 years, Playcentres have led the way in providing unique
        whānau learning opportunities. Funding cuts to centres would be a great
        step backwards for both early childhood and community education.

        Ends

        For more information on whānau learning go to http://www.aceaotearoa.org.nz

        And Anne Tolly responded to a journalist who was doing a story on it by saying that this is just scare-mongering by the Labour Party. What a load of bull-shit–this is a bottom-up campaign from concerned parents and educators.

    • Vicky32 5.2
      20 July 2011 at 10:53 pm

      A Government taskforce looking into investment in the early childcare sector is calling for a 63% cut in funding to Playcentre, a move the Playcentre Federation says will force the country’s 460 centres to close.

      What conceivable reason would they have for doing that? It’s insane…

  6. Colonial Viper 6
    20 July 2011 at 10:21 am

    Israeli spies back in NZ and Key KNOWS NOTHING!

    Except he knows enough to say that its not in our interests for us to know either. Despite not knowing the details himself. Apparently.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10739639

  7. freedom 7
    20 July 2011 at 10:23 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5311497/Quake-victims-no-Mossad-agents

    the comments from the PM are predictable, the various articles showing up repeat the story but do raise a few questions… and then there is the article above. The whole timeline of these events is what does not add up. Within hours of the Quake the Israeli Ambassador flew in from Canberra? The bodies would have barely been discovered let alone identified. Yet in the space of a few hours the Ambassador was not only in the country, but gave the surviviors a ride to the airport?

    • Lanthanide 7.1
      20 July 2011 at 10:44 am

      Some expert or other was on Nine to Noon this morning. He concluded that there is undoubtedly something going on, and even if they don’t find out anything more than the 5 passports, those in themselves will be very valuable intelligence that can be disseminated internationally to other intelligence agencies around the world.

      He said that they were almost certainly not Mossad agents, due to their age – average of 23. He suggested that they were ‘helpers’, people who help out the Israeli government around the world to do various missions, and likely they had just finished their compulsory military training and were effectively on the mission as a way to gain entrance to Mossad. He suggested they were likely in NZ so they could steal identities for use in fake NZ passports (as happened 7 years ago), because it’s not something that full Mossad agents would normally spend time on.

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.1
        20 July 2011 at 11:14 am

        Makes sense i.e. it was a very routine low level op that got upended by an unexpected situation that they had no decent contingency for (except to abandon their ‘mate’, turn tail and bail).

        • freedom 7.1.1.1
          20 July 2011 at 11:52 am

          or… during a routine low level op, id aquisition and asset generation, there is a quake which presented an Operation potential of a far grander scale, having S&R teams get a private NZPolice backdoor seperate to the exisiting private back door that is part and parcel of Interntional Security arrangements. (these are the same people that had to admit to StuxNet)

          And is anyone buying that the Israeli Pm tries four times to call Key and it doesn’t happen?

        • Lanthanide 7.1.1.2
          20 July 2011 at 2:40 pm

          Turns out there were actually 6 in this group, 3 of whom were killed and 3 who fled the country.

          The ones most talked about are the 4 that were in the van, 1 was killed and the other 3 took photos. There were also 2 pedestrians that were killed.

          • freedom 7.1.1.2.1
            20 July 2011 at 3:56 pm

            how do they just desert their mate in the van ? getting out of the van to safety, sure, but actually deserting the body? Scum seems an apt moniker of their character

            • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.2.1.1
              20 July 2011 at 11:52 pm

              how do they just desert their mate in the van ?

              Simple explanation is that they were not mates. At least not in the usual sense of the word.

      • Morrissey 7.1.2
        20 July 2011 at 12:20 pm

        Some expert or other was on Nine to Noon this morning.

        That was Dr. Paul Buchanan, one of the most informed and brilliant security and espionage commentators in the world.

        A few years ago, following a dirty tricks campaign worthy of Mossad or the Stasi, he was railroaded out of his job as a professor at Auckland University.

        • mik e 7.1.2.1
          20 July 2011 at 1:09 pm

          If you have listened or read Buchanans work he is no sympathizer with the left .So the question has to be asked who is the controller and is he embedded with the SIS or otherwise how come our SIS can,t find these people.IF they can,t find theses people how can they find a terrorist organization . with these guys having a free reign in our country its just making our country and our people overseas more of a terrorist target .

          • freedom 7.1.2.1.1
            20 July 2011 at 3:35 pm

            having them present comment from people like PB is a good thing
            have you never heard the term ” know thy enemy?”

            and in the world of espionage etc there is no Left or Right,
            just different brands on the same brown paper bags

            • Morrissey 7.1.2.1.1.1
              20 July 2011 at 3:47 pm

              having them present comment from people like PB is a good thing
              have you never heard the term ” know thy enemy?”

              Paul Buchanan is not “the enemy”. Nor, strictly speaking, is Mossad or MI5 or the CIA “the enemy”. They are simply agents of the states they serve. The crimes committed by these organizations are the responsibility of Israel, the UK and the US.

              • freedom …
                20 July 2011 at 4:00 pm

                i would suggest you kind of have that backwards, the state is and always has been a servant of its agents. Be it commercial, military or intelligence based, the lies of spies have darkened the skies

                • Morrissey …
                  20 July 2011 at 4:11 pm

                  the state is and always has been a servant of its agents.

                  So Mossad is killing dissidents, stealing the identities of dead people and hacking into computer systems without the Tel Aviv regime knowing anything about it?

                  And those American “agents” who tried to kill Giuliana Sgrena (they only killed her driver) and killed Reuters and Al Jazeera journalists in Iraq were operating in a rogue fashion?

                  You are saying that the spies and the military are out of control in the U.S. and Israel. Have you ever thought that, just possibly, these admittedly brutal state servants have far more integrity and honesty than the politicians they report to?

                  • freedom …
                    20 July 2011 at 4:32 pm

                    heads of State change and are oft forgotten, heads on staffs are often remembered

          • Anne 7.1.2.1.2
            20 July 2011 at 6:58 pm

            If you have listened or read Buchanans work he is no sympathizer with the left.

            Have to disagree wuth you there mik e. While he may not be a ‘lefty’ as such, my reading of some of his posts (I admit I’m not a regular reader) suggest he is agreeably impartial in his judgements.

            ooops… I see Tiger Mountain has already challenged mik e and co. The man has an exceptional brain and I can understand why some people feel threatened by him.We are darn lucky to have him.

        • D-D-D-Damn! 7.1.2.2
          20 July 2011 at 5:30 pm

          Mind you, Paul Buchanan appears to know fuck-all about the Israel-Palestine conflict. His argument in a recent kiwipolitico piece (and even more so in his follow-up comments) suggested an astonishing lack of knowledge.

          Incidently, NZ Listener Chomsky-smear outline still in the pipeline. I’ll have one or two things to say about this latest Mossad Affair as well.

      • Vicky32 7.1.3
        20 July 2011 at 10:59 pm

        even if they don’t find out anything more than the 5 passports,

        Which had mysteriously become two passports on 3 News. Their treatment of it all amounted to “nothing to see here, move on!” I was texting my son about this, and bizarrely, Jews in predictive text, is “keys”!

  9. marty mars 9
    20 July 2011 at 11:50 am

    I agree with Na Raihana, the Maori Party’s Ikaroa Rawhiti candidate, that Dr Brash’s conjecture that Sir Apirana would be an ACT supporter if he were still alive is “despicable.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/80420/maori-party-upset-by-act-using-ngata%27s-name

    brash said, “In our current context, I’m confident he (Sir Apirana Ngata) would feel his values were best embodied in the ACT Party’s philosophy and policies.”

    http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/apirana-and-act-real-solutions-maori-problems-brash/5/95536

    What a lowlife and he is likely to get back because of the deal with the gnats in Epsom – who can hold the line against their foul agenda? Mana and Greens that’s who.

    http://mars2earth.blogspot.com/2011/07/its-life-jim-but-not-as-we-know-it.html

    • McFlock 9.1
      20 July 2011 at 2:24 pm

      Holy shit – I thought that it was a joke when I heard someone claim he’d said it. Laughed like a drain. I didn’t know it was true!

  10. mik e 10
    20 July 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Hey whatsup with Mossad agents in CHCH stealing identities.I wonder who their controller is ,wouln,t be a smiling assassin with connections to the SIS

    • freedom 11.1
      20 July 2011 at 1:35 pm

      patsy question after patsy question, can you just imagine the room of lawyers and advisors in the office screening then sending them to Paul then the reply back then the screening then the return, finally the posting. Up to four minutes between questions and answers.
      The great illusion of open-participation in the shaping of modern media continues unabated.

      strangely enough my question(s) about the timeline of the Israeli Ambassadors travel from Canberra and his subsequent assistance to the survivors seems to have missed the cut :]

      • Jum 11.1.1
        20 July 2011 at 3:05 pm

        Freedom,

        Please refer to my post on
        ‘Jum 13
        20 July 2011 at 2:56 pm’

        for validation of your comment of patsy questions and controlled answers. (Personally, I hope Tiger Mountain is believable in his 1.29pm comment) because this coming election will be ‘the perfect exercise in how to manipulate the public by John Key and advisers’.

        Any New Zealander that wants a fairer, egalitarian New Zealand needs to have all paperwork ready when Roger Douglas, the numbers manipulator and John Key, the ‘forget that expert; I have others’ begin their bloody assault on Kiwi hearts and minds. This year is a pivotal one for which road we want to take as a people – people over profit or profit over people. Simple really.

  12. Tiger Mountain 12
    20 July 2011 at 1:29 pm

    “mik e” and others here should check out http://www.kiwipolitico.com/ before more assumptions are made about Paul Bs position on the political spectrum.

    He is an immensely skilled analyst and commentator.

  13. Jum 13
    20 July 2011 at 2:56 pm

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1107/S00219/uk-welfare-groups-back-auckland-picket.htm

    ‘‘We are protesting outside the Maxim dinner on Friday night because we seek to stand in solidarity with beneficiaries in the UK, and because we want to highlight the extent to which the recommendations of the Government’s Rebstock report are based on UK welfare reforms.’
    ‘Direct actions are a part of political discourse, and given the nature of Government onslaughts against beneficiaries and unemployed people in both New Zealand and the UK, we need to do more than simply listen politely to what conservative ‘experts’ brought in from overseas have to tell us.
    ‘If Maxim had really wanted a fair debate, they would have brought out a UK claimants’ representative to speak as well, so people attending this function could hear both sides of the story.’

    The picket will take place this Friday 22 July from 5.30pm onwards, outside the Heritage Hotel, 35 Hobson St, Auckland.’

    This is exactly what occurred during the last decade with Maxim, a far right religious think tank, pretending in various columns that it cared about all New Zealanders. There are only a few New Zealanders they care about and trust me it aint us.

    Watch this year when they hold campaign meetings for all election candidates – they get questions from the audience but only ask the ones they want to.

    That is NOT democracy; that is neo-conservatism that seeks to control women and anyone who believes in a society where all people have equal rights.

    Attend the picket and stand up for all New Zealanders’ rights.

  15. Adrian 15
    20 July 2011 at 3:43 pm

    The most puzzling question on these Isreali arseholes is that within minutes of the quake Israeli “officials” had set up a rendevous in Latimer Square for the surviving 3 in the van. How? Cell phones wern’t working very well by my recollection. Who and where did these “officials come from, what were they doing in Chch, hardly a diplomatic hot zone? Don’t expect Key to do anything, he hasn’t got the guts, it should be 3 strikes and you’re out of the country. Is Key an Israeli plant? Anything is possible, he’s as incompetent as Mossad.

    • rosy 15.1
      20 July 2011 at 6:44 pm

      Trans Pacific Partnership negotiations were going on at the same time, maybe that was of interest? I remember readings something about he US delegation being there at the time of the earthquake.

  16. Morrissey 16
    20 July 2011 at 4:03 pm

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/letter-of-the-day-2/

    Craven politicians bring shame on the Baltic states

    07.17.2011
    From: ulme muld
    Date: Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:32 AM
    Subject: Israel-friendly MEPs lobby Ashton on Palestine
    To: normfinkelst…@gmail.com

    Some 100 members of the European Parliament have sent Catherine Ashton a letter against Palestine’s declaration of an independent state in September.
    http://eurobserver.com/9/32613
    “Israeli-friendly MEPs lobby Ashton on Palestine.”

    What is especially shameful about this letter is that some of the signatories are from the Baltic States, namely Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. These three countries were occupied by the Soviet Union; all three declared unilateral independence from the Soviet Union in 1991.

    Yet these very same MEPs are quite ready to ask the Palestinians to continue to “negotiate” with Israel. Had they applied the same principles to their own countries, these countries would still be “negotiating” with the Soviets.

    I would especially like to point out Tunne Kelam, a so-called “dissident” during the Soviet occupation in Estonia, and who has made a career out of his “dissident” anti-occupation credentials of 1991. Yet he fails to see the irony, the double standard, and his utter lack of morals in his negation of an independent Palestinian state.

    It has been said that some slaves do not want freedom — they just want to become slaveholders themselves.

    Ulme Muld
    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/letter-of-the-day-2/

  17. Tangled up in blue 17
    20 July 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Apologies if I’m timelined

    John Key and Mark Zuckerberg

    http://hellameke.com/dev/awesome/files/10/keyzuck.jpg

  18. Chris 18
    20 July 2011 at 4:58 pm

    [deleted]

    [lprent: I wasn’t due to see you for a few more weeks – ummm 7th August.

    More comments. Banned permanently. ]

  19. Draco T Bastard 19
    20 July 2011 at 5:54 pm

    When NAct came into power they cut successful rehabilitation schemes and put in place Fresh Start Result?

    It shows all but two of the 17 youths that took part in the first two camps subsequently re-offended.

    Also worth reading is When is a Boot Camp Not a Boot Camp? When it’s a Big Mac!

    • Ianupnorth 19.1
      20 July 2011 at 8:55 pm

      Seriously this needs to be in a main post, not just in open mike; Key et al promised, amongst other things, they would deal with youth crime

      They didn’t listen to experts when they told them bowing to the lemons at the Sensible Sentencing Trust would be a disaster. They wouldn’t and continue to not listen to the links between poverty and deprivation and crime.

  20. Bored 20
    20 July 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Its been nearly three long years, plenty of time for even an Epsilon-minus semi-moron to provide a km or two of cycleway. So Jokey Hen, you let us down, fail us, fail yourself. Wheres my fekkin cycleway??????????

    • Jim Nald 20.1
      20 July 2011 at 8:35 pm

      Wasn’t that the jewel of the crown from the, cough, jobs summit?

      The scoundrel took us for a ride.

  21. Blue 21
    20 July 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Dodgy deals being done by National and Act:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10739621

    We need to reform that ‘get one electorate seat and get five MPs in Parliament’ thing stat.

    • Secret Squirrel 21.1
      20 July 2011 at 7:27 pm

      What’s dodgy about that? Parties are free to arrange anything they like with each other.

      And voters are free to judge what parties arrange vote for whoever they like.

    • Jim Nald 21.2
      20 July 2011 at 8:42 pm

      These Nat fellows are, to draw on the link to the ACT poster noted further above, busy fellating Act to stay in power. Expect to see Nat candidates at work in such manner in Epsom and other similar electorates.

      Re that picture in the poster: would have been more appropriate to have the faces of don and key.

    • Tangled up in blue 21.3
      20 July 2011 at 9:26 pm

      I’d like to see the Greens and Labour do this tbh.

      CHAUVEL, Charles LAB 11,297
      DUNNE, Peter Francis UFNZ 12,303
      HUGHES, Gareth GP 2,665

  22. prism 22
    20 July 2011 at 7:33 pm

    Radionz today gave a full report on the latest moves in the Destiny church and Hannah Tamaki taking control of the Maori Womens Welfare League. There are ways to maneouvre inside charitable, non-profit organisations with broad concerns, wrest control of the assets and channel these with a narrow focus. It is wise for those trying to do good things in society and who have achieved a good flow of bequests, gifts and donations to be aware of the dangers and have some sort of legal injunction in the rules so that a stop can be put on any move that takes control out of the hands of the historical supporters.

    It reminded me of what I heard about the Dunedin Corso office. I googled that and found info under – “nz corso dunedin office takeover” in an academic review from Victoria. I made some notes –
    From 1984 Corso’s direction was changed so that two-thirds of its income would be spent in NZ whereas it had previously been majorly concerned with overseas assistance. The program was called Justice begins at Home and a Maori Development Fund called the Aotearoa Putea Fund was developed from 1986. It then gained a  full­time coordinator,  H.  Halkyard Harawira.
    It appeared that in the late 1970s the organisation was captured by different agenda with discussion on the relevance of the Treaty and central control causing branches concern. Relations deteriorated and in 1988 there was a physical assault on one member by people from the Harawira faction. There were no annual accounts issued from 1986 for a few years. Workers and funds began to drift away. Many supporters moved to Oxfam. CORSO came to be regarded as a fringe group with a radical agenda based on Maori development and Tiro rangitiratanga or sovereignty.
    The ideals of the Maori group may have been good, but knowing what is achievable and having the ability to run a project that isn’t too ambitious is necessary for success. This faction gave the chop to a long-standing and useful organisation when they gained control and the funds.

    Another long-running group this time gutted by unscrupulous people. was the Whangarei Hearing Assocition which was taken over by an outsider couple who got control of valuable assets and funds. The Court hearing was reported on 26 October 2007 by the Northern Advocate.
    In his submission to Justice Asher, Crown prosecutor Sam Wimsett detailed –
    He said the committee allowed president Erika Kemp’s husband Mark Whitfield, the association’s manager, to purchase a property at Henry St, Kensington, for $298,000 when it was valued at $335,000.
    The property was leased back to the association at a rental of $2600 a month – a move the Registrar of Incorporated Societies called unjustified because a house wasn’t necessary for the organisation to conduct its affairs.
    Mr Whitfield sold his Holden Commodore to the association for $40,000 which was later traded in at $18,000 on a Landcruiser worth $83,000.
    Justice Asher… the association had lost nearly 60 percent of its assets in a short time and it seemed that this year’s pending financial statement would show a deficit worst than that of 2006.
    When the current committee stormed into the role in 2005, the association had purpose-built premises, qualified hearing practitioners working there, and $100,000 in the bank.
    The liquidation hearing yesterday heard that at the beginning of this year it had $12 in the bank, and owned no building.

    • mickysavage 22.1
      20 July 2011 at 7:54 pm

      Prism you should google Hugh Watt Society, Chris Diack, ACT and Onehunga Labour hall …

      Talk about assets accumulated for a good cause being used for the purposes of evil … 

    • millsy 22.2
      20 July 2011 at 11:06 pm

      The Harawiras you mention. Any relation to the currently ‘exiled’ Mana Party leader?

      • prism 22.2.1
        21 July 2011 at 9:40 am

        hi millsy I didn’t have time and was tired last might to check up on possible family connections but it could be. Let’s hope the Maori Womens Welfare League doesn’t get used in a similar to a mixture of the drives that were apparent in both Corso and the Whangarei Hearing group takeovers.

    • Vicky32 22.3
      20 July 2011 at 11:23 pm

      Oh, I had forgotten all about the existence of CORSO! So that’s what became of it…
       

  23. mickysavage 23
    20 July 2011 at 7:51 pm

    New Roy Morgan out.

    Labour 33.5, Greens 7.5, Nats 49, ACT 3.

    Still bouncing around but better than the last Colmar Brunton.

    Leftie response, it is heartening but accuracy of the polls are uncertain.

    RWNJ response – silence.  It does not provide them with a weapon to bash Phil Goff with … 

  24. jackal 24
    21 July 2011 at 12:06 am

    Disaster Capitalism

    This week it was revealed that CERA officials are being paid over twice as much as was officially recommended. Former National Prime Minister Jenny Shipley, Anake Goodall and Murray Sherwin are being paid $1000 a day while the panel’s convenor, Sir John William Hansen, has been set at $1400 a day.

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