Open mike 21/05/2010

54 comments on “Open mike 21/05/2010 ”

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1. Janice 1

   21 May 2010 at 8:10 am

   So our yellow, lily livered, fluffy chicken PM has this morning once again declined to front on NatRad to comment on his vision of where the budget is taking the country. Is it because they won’t supply a list of patsy questions for him to have his aspirational and inspirational responses (prepared by his spinsters) with a smile and wave? Or is it because he hasn’t got a clue where he is taking the country, only how he is paying back his rich mates?
   • Anne 1.1

     21 May 2010 at 10:33 am

     Our yellow, lily livered, fluffy chicken PM won’t front up to Nat Radio because he knows he will get the curly questions, but he’s happy to front up to Close Up where he knows he can lie and spin to his heart’s content, and that useless puppy Sainsbury will do no more than nod his head sagely and agree with everything. He had a slightly harder time on Campbell Live but it was still an abysmal interview. Where was Bill English? Isn’t it normal for the architect of the budget to front up to these programmes on budget day? Michael Cullen always did while Helen Clark kept in the back-ground. Is it because Key’s scared English might inadvertently let some cat out of the bag? Or is it because he wanted to take the immediate kudos? Or is it both?
     • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1

       21 May 2010 at 10:51 am

       Both with the added gloss of Smile and Wave?
     • marty mars 1.1.2

       21 May 2010 at 11:44 am

       He owned close up and where was goff, where was a counter view – no where that’s where.
     • the pinkpostman 1.1.3

       21 May 2010 at 3:57 pm

       As you well know Annie the Tory’s are past masters at deceit and sleaze.
       I see nothing in this budget for working people and there is nothing to help our young people get into trade training or higher education .
       The average worker and benificiary will be worse of when the GST starts to bite.
       Having said that I must admit that English with the help of the Nats publicity machine ie,Crosby /Textor made this budget sound like a workers budget.The gullible public are so far being duped . However wait until about December when most people spend a bit more then the “penny will drop ” and people wake up to the facts
2. just saying 2

   21 May 2010 at 9:12 am

   I’ve noticed a few ‘Standard’ blogs appearing on Scoop lately. It’s good to have the various voices of the left getting heard a little bit more widely.
   Is this new, or did I just not notice it before?
   • r0b 2.1

     21 May 2010 at 11:09 am

     I think I first started seeing it about 6 months ago?
   • Bright Red 2.2

     21 May 2010 at 11:51 am

     we can make it happen – the scoopit button is at the bottom of each post and we can also see when someone else has scoopit-ed a post and go and vote for it.
   • lprent 2.3

     21 May 2010 at 12:01 pm

     It has always been happening as people put them up there. But you can put them up there yourself. The Scoopit button is the leftmost one just under the post. You have to have a account on scoop.
3. Adrian 3

   21 May 2010 at 9:27 am

   There are 2 big fishooks in this budget for the Nats which resemble going after spotties with dynamite and forgetting to throw it in the water. Councils have already set their rates for the year but GST kicks in halfway through, so thats 1.25% added to the 2.5% plus expected 6% inflation, as well as councils losing depreciation on all their buildings and workers and sub-contractors demanding 6% wage and cost increases to cover inflation. This all adds up to horrific rates rises in the next few years.
   Nothing pisses Nat ( and everybody else) voters off more than rates rises and the second is hitting them again by costing them even more equity in their houses due to going after the property sector. I’m sure this budget is going to bite them on the bum.
4. tc 4

   21 May 2010 at 10:03 am

   Sideshow john never shows up to a media gig unless the outcome is pre-ordained like his comfy chats with the fawning Paul Henry on TVNZ etc.

   He stopped doing ‘open ‘ interviews (like Clark always did) early on in his PM days when he simply couldn’t answer the many questions put to him, or when he did put his foot in it……of course his media mates labelled this as ‘leadership in action’ when in reality it’s leadership in hiding.
5. freedom 5

   21 May 2010 at 10:05 am

   Richardson may have given us the Mother of All Budgets,
   English has given us a Drunk Uncle’s Betting Slips
6. prism 6

   21 May 2010 at 10:18 am

   But I think Drunk Uncles while under the influence, might be vulnerable to requests from kids wanting a bit of a hand out. Will you give us some money for an ice cream, and go to a film Uncle? We can cluster around the knees of King John the Clueless or try and bite his ankles but the lower strata just get from him smoke and mirrors.
7. Quoth the Raven 7

   21 May 2010 at 11:04 am

   Looks like Obama’s stimulus has been working wonders: Shock increase in US unemployment I think it’s time to look at a certain graph of the central planners expectation of how the stimulus would have worked versus that, all to difficult thing for etatists, reality.
   • Pascal's bookie 7.1

     21 May 2010 at 11:14 am

     The relevant graph though would be one that shows what the econonmy would look like absent stimulus. Got one?

     Your one just shows that predictions about how bad things would be, were wrong. Surprise? Not really.
     • Quoth the Raven 7.1.1

       21 May 2010 at 11:18 am

       Yes the one I linked to. It shows the government’s predictions of the unemployment with and without stimulus (and any graph showing what unemployment may look like without stimulus is necessarily going to be only a prediction). All that’s been done to it is the real level of unemployment has been overlayed and what it shows is that it is worse than the governments predictions for unemployment without stimulus.
       • Pascal's bookie 7.1.1.1

         21 May 2010 at 11:26 am

         Think about it.

         The govts prediction of how bad things were was way underestimated. Both those predictions(with/without) were wrong.

         What I asked for is an updated graph, showing what we currently think the econonomy would look like absent stimulus. ie, update both the lines, rather than just the one that suits your argument.

         I realise that that would be real hard to do, as it involves a counterfactual. But so does any argument claiming that this graph proves the stimulus made things worse. If that’s the argument you are making.

         All this graph proves is that the economists predictions were wrong about how bad things would be. For all we know, the absent stimulus line would be even worse still.
         • Quoth the Raven 7.1.1.1.1

           21 May 2010 at 11:40 am

           As far as I’m aware the US government has not produced any other graphs with regards to predictions of unemployment absent stimulus. So we work with what we have in the real world. Unfortunately we can’t set up a duplicate US and run an economic experiment on it. The point is that the economists predictions were wrong. That the stimulus has not worked like they believed it would do. It is a counterfactual to those who predicted the success of the stimulus. Unemployment is higher than when Obama became President. A graph predicting what unemployment would be like absent stimulus would just be another prediction to be shown right or wrong in the future. Meanwhile we have the real world to observe. For all we know there could be unicorns in outer space.
           • Pascal's bookie 7.1.1.1.1.1

             21 May 2010 at 12:02 pm

             The point is that the economists predictions were wrong

             Correct. The economy was much worse than they feared. The baseline (absent stimulus) was way too optimistic.

             That the stimulus has not worked like they believed it would do.

             Not proven. They believed the stimulus would have a certain effect in comparison to the baseline.

             If the baseline was wrong but the relationship between the baseline and the stimulus line was correct, then absent stimulus the line would be worse than the reality we have.

             That’s all I’m saying. That this graph doesn’t prove the stimulus (poorly designed as it was) didn’t make things better than they otherwise would have been.

             All it shows is that the predictions about how bad the economy was, were wrong.
             • Quoth the Raven …

               21 May 2010 at 12:09 pm

               That’s all I’m saying. That this graph doesn’t prove the stimulus (poorly designed as it was) didn’t make things better than they otherwise would have been.

               But you can’t prove that. You’re asking for the impossible! Like I said we can’t set up a duplicate US and run an economic experiment.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               21 May 2010 at 12:17 pm

               I know! But it’s the same problem with claiming that “This graph proves the stimulus didn’t work”.
             • Quoth the Raven …

               21 May 2010 at 12:21 pm

               Read through my comments again. I didn’t say that.

               BTW Why put something in quotation marks when it’s not a quote?
             • Pascal's bookie …

               21 May 2010 at 12:33 pm

               BTW Why put something in quotation marks when it’s not a quote?

               Sorry, wasn’t quoting you, just saying that if someone was to say that, then they would have the same problem re counterfactuals.

               I didn’t say that.

               I though you got pretty close to meaning that when you said , quote ( 😉 )

               That the stimulus has not worked like they believed it would do.

               and from your initial comment which I took to be sarcastically implying that the stimulus package wasn’t doing any good.

               If you only meant to say that the specific predictions were wrong, then fine. That’s obviously true.
             • Quoth the Raven …

               21 May 2010 at 12:41 pm

               Well economics is not like the natural sciences as much as some would like it to be.

               On different note do you wish to take this political quiz? Could be interesting. I put it up yesterday and only one person did it. My results 93% economic leftist 100% anarchist 100% anti-militarist 100% socio-cultural liberal and 97% civil libertarian
             • Pascal's bookie …

               21 May 2010 at 12:50 pm

               clearly a sensible centrist then eh 🙂

               Yeah , I’ll take another look, though I started it last night and found some of the questions pretty much impossible to answer given the way they are written.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               21 May 2010 at 1:13 pm

               …and found some of the questions pretty much impossible to answer given the way they are written.

               The questions are incredibly biased and leading. Words have slightly shifted meanings such as government = dictatorship excluding the possibility that the government could actually be a democratic administration.
             • Quoth the Raven …

               21 May 2010 at 1:17 pm

               The questions in all political quizzes have problems. I think the approach of this is better than some of the others.
               Draco – Care to provide an example?
             • nzfp …

               21 May 2010 at 4:34 pm

               John Williams of “Shadow Government Statistics” reports that the real unemployment rate in the US is 22%

               The SGS Alternate Unemployment Rate reflects current unemployment reporting methodology adjusted for SGS-estimated long-term discouraged workers, who were defined out of official existence in 1994. That estimate is added to the BLS estimate of U-6 unemployment, which includes short-term discouraged workers.

               If Obama wanted to do a proper stimulus he should have looked at the New Deal, intead he shovelled money into the black hole at the center of the US financial system.
8. uke 8

   21 May 2010 at 11:14 am

   Looks like the newly elected Tories may increase UK capital gains tax to 50%. Fairly radical move:

   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/7734803/Higher-taxes-for-a-million-as-George-Osbornes-emergency-Budget-hits-investors.html
9. mach1 9

   21 May 2010 at 11:19 am

   A satellite image of the spill and how to privatise the profits…and socialise the losses.

   Senate Republicans threaten to leave taxpayers “on the hook’ for damages from the BP Plc spill in the Gulf of Mexico by blocking legislation to raise the liability limit, President Barack Obama said.

   The only good news, a thaw in US-Cuba relations, ocean currents permitting.
   • Quoth the Raven 9.1

     21 May 2010 at 11:25 am

     Though it maybe positive news we should remember that Obama maliciously renewed the horrible trade embargo against Cuba.
     • nzfp 9.1.1

       21 May 2010 at 11:29 am

       Not to mention the new round of sanctions against Iran despite a uranium enrichment swap deal reached with Brazil and Turkey.
       • Pascal's bookie 9.1.1.1

         21 May 2010 at 11:42 am

         Yeah, that’s fuckn stupid. It’s like they want them to want to build the bomb.
         • nzfp 9.1.1.1.1

           21 May 2010 at 11:49 am

           I have no doubt that they want an A-bomb. Who wouldn’t. A-bombs have a tendancy to reduce the liklehood of being invaded by hegemonic expansionist imperialists. Personally I would like to see a world devoid of nuclear weapons.

           Talking about invasion, does anyone know the last time Iran invaded another nation? Was it in the last 10, 20, 50, 100, 200 years?
           • Quoth the Raven 9.1.1.1.1.1

             21 May 2010 at 11:51 am

             It’s in the article below. Not since 1900.
           • Pascal's bookie 9.1.1.1.1.2

             21 May 2010 at 12:04 pm

             “I have no doubt that they want an A-bomb.”

             Or threshold status, like Japan. That’s allowed under the NPT.
         • freedom 9.1.1.1.2

           21 May 2010 at 11:54 am

           just like when they gave Russia all the makings of theirs between 1943 and 1946 by U.S. forces shipping and flying evey scrap of data out of Los Alomos as soon as each discovery was made
           • mach1 9.1.1.1.2.1

             21 May 2010 at 12:10 pm

             And then uncle Joe stole some shit.
             • freedom …

               21 May 2010 at 12:24 pm

               Keeping some booty from wartime missions is one thing, and both sides have been doing it since warfare began.
               Being sent thousands of documents, hundreds of thousands of tonnes of equipment and all necessary logistics to build a nuclear weapons programme is an entirely different matter
       • Quoth the Raven 9.1.1.2

         21 May 2010 at 11:47 am

         I found this article interesting in the context of Obama’s constant sabre-rattling: Super Surprising Facts About ‘Our Enemy’ Iran Remind Us That We Don’t Know Squat
         26 basic questions about Iran with answers that might surprise you.
     • mach1 9.1.2

       21 May 2010 at 11:54 am

       Unfortunately QtR, I think you’re right.

       Wont Might Get Fooled Again
10. freedom 10

    21 May 2010 at 12:43 pm

    ‘Maori Party MP Hone Harawira this morning issued a statement revealing he had been denied permission by his party to cross the floor to vote against the budget over the issue” dompost

    Which only shows what a gutless windbag he is and how the Maori Party are a joke who are being railroaded into oblivion by the Nats. If you believe in something you act on it. Hone couldn’t even stand for his own beliefs and we are to trust that he will stand for the beliefs of his electorate.

    Yes the Maori Party are fighting for a couple of valid and important ideas, but they are only receiving watery broth instead of a sustenance giving casserole, the cost of which has been the Maori Party integrity and a diminishing trust in its representatives.
    • ianmac 10.1

      21 May 2010 at 1:22 pm

      Hone talking on Maori TV last night said that the Party had agreed to go with the Budget because they had to support greater Maori hopes. So he had to go with that.
      He did say, I think thoughtfully, that by the next election the MP will assess their gains, implying that by then if not enough …………..
11. Quoth the Raven 11

    21 May 2010 at 2:10 pm

    RadGeek provides another story of American police brutality.

    In which Lieutenant Tanya Mayhew decides to torture a nonviolent prisoner, Anthony McCoy, by ripping his grill off of his teeth. (It was bonded to the teeth and McCoy bled out of his mouth after she ripped the enamel off his teeth.) His jailers then denied the victim medical care for 10 days. Since the torturer was a cop, when the news came out about what she had done, she was given a 5 day vacation from her government job for this sadistic assault.
12. Richard 12

    21 May 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Does anybody else think that this is strange?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3724192/Secrets-hidden-as-policeman-lay-dying

    I can’t imagine what would be at stake here, except an inflated sense of self importance on behalf of the police? Unless it is somehow evidence of an almighty cock-up.
    • Quoth the Raven 12.1

      21 May 2010 at 3:30 pm

      Strange indeed. What equipment could he have had that if found could have had international consequences? I for one do not believe the state should have such secrets from its people. I know those on this site who endorse a somewhat totalitarian view of the state would disagree.
      • Pascal's bookie 12.1.1

        21 May 2010 at 3:50 pm

        “somewhat totalitarian”

        Would they be kin with Jenny Shipley’s ‘radical conservatives’?

        You’ve really got no room for complaint about poeple using the word libertarian in ways you don’t like when you abuse concepts as dishonestly as that right there.

        ‘somewhat(?) totalitarian’ Why, it don’t make no sense!
        • Quoth the Raven 12.1.1.1

          21 May 2010 at 5:29 pm

          It’s not a political thesis. You really are a pedant sometimes aren’t you. There are certainly people who see little limit to state authority here though.
          • prism 12.1.1.1.1

            21 May 2010 at 8:01 pm

            So speaks the pedant, evermore.
      • Richard 12.1.2

        21 May 2010 at 3:51 pm

        I’m guessing it was whatever GPS or similar tracking dingus they were trying to install on the vehicle?

        But the possible recovery and examination of that by a police forensics team hardly seems to be a cause for much concern.
13. wtl 13

    21 May 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Bill English is now saying that the government is considering selling our assets. Isn’t it convenient that the rich now have a lot of extra cash in the pockets so that they can buy them up? And I wonder why the government books are in a state requiring asset sales?
    • prism 13.1

      21 May 2010 at 9:49 pm

      “Bill English is now saying that the government is considering selling our assets”
      Take the ‘t’ out of the last word and that describes the Nact attitude to our country.
14. jcuknz 14

    21 May 2010 at 9:23 pm

    I had an interesting experience today 🙂
    I am a single superanuient who uses between $45 and $70 of electricty a month. After decades with one company I decided another looked attractive so said I was interested in changing over. Next comes the original company offering me a $200 credit to stay with them for twelve month.
    It seems quite crazy to me.
15. bobo 15

    21 May 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Agent Orange type chemical used on Afghan poppies ? Seems a co-incidence, was an article a few days back that caught my eye.

    http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/05/13/daily_brief_disease_hits_afghan_poppies

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