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Open mike 21/11/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, November 21st, 2014 - 95 comments
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Open mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

95 comments on “Open mike 21/11/2014 ”

  1. (start yr day with multiple belly-laughs..

    ..this will do the trick..

    ..three grannies smoke pot for the first time…

    ..they seem to enjoy the experience…)

    http://www.alternet.org/watch-3-really-cute-grandmas-try-smoking-pot-first-time-gigglefest-ensues

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      Banks have been rigging the system for centuries. The difference is that now that people are more educated they’re being caught. Unfortunately, the governments still aren’t doing anything about it as they’re too scared to and/or their in the bank’s pocket.

    • Murray Rawshark 2.2

      Funnily enough, foreign exchange is exactly the area FJK was involved in. Would he be too ethical to participate in such a scheme? My answer is no.

  2. stever 3

    It’s banking culture, not the people per se….

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/nov/20/banking-cheats-bankers-financial-sector-dishonest-behaviour

    So, I wonder if people from that sector ever bring their culture with them to other fields when they move…politics for example, John? 🙂

    • Skinny 3.1

      During Key’s time at Merrill Lynch he was trading the NZD causing a roller coaster ride for importers & exporters. In some Nations you would be arrested and on trial for treason.

      • les 3.1.1

        what nations would they be then?

        • Skinny 3.1.1.1

          Our largest trading partner & our rightful ruler China. I excepted we are part of China 20 years ago, geographically it make sense we are linked to their kingdom opposed to the fallen empires of England & America. Maori are thought to be their descendants, migrating to the pacific from the East.

          • les 3.1.1.1.1

            interesting…dont know about the ‘rightful ruler’ bit!I think if NZ plots a neutral non aligned position we would all be better off.No chance of that now.

      • BM 3.1.2

        What bollocks

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2

      It may be the culture but where did that culture come from in the first place?

    • Murray Rawshark 3.3

      I suspect a particular type of person is attracted to working with money, then they make the culture.

  3. Ad 4

    So, the most powerful man in the world is in Auckland.

    What is Labour’s policy view of China?

    I heard a few comments from Little.
    But where are we?

    • BM 4.1

      What should Little be doing?

      • vto 4.1.1

        What should your heroes be doing re the point below do you think BM?

        There is an ugly pattern of inhumane behaviour from this government

        • BM 4.1.1.1

          Nigel Hampton sounds like a complete fucking tool bag.

          I’m sure the people who were coordinating the rescue effort and rescuers who risked their own lives to help save people thought they were doing their best and were trying to save every one they could.

          Seriously, what a dick.

          • vto 4.1.1.1.1

            Fuck me mate, you have clearly missed the point.

            The point is not at all about the people who risked their lives and did the best they could in extreme conditions – the point is about the rescue organisations (USAR, Fire, Police) and their woeful preparation and action / coordination. It was very very very poor BM and people died because of it. Hampton also acknowledges the difference – did you not read it properly?

            You need to think a bit more BM because you have missed the point entirely. And it is a highly important point that relates directly to our governments adequacy and to our governments refusal to face justice when it is not up to scratch.

            Hampton has it completely right. You have it completely wrong.

            wake up

            • weka 4.1.1.1.1.1

              “You need to think a bit more BM because you have missed the point entirely”

              No, he needs to take the time to read things properly. The article is very clear. Equally clear is that BM didn’t bother to read it properly.

              Am getting sick of this from you to be honest, BM. You’re capable of understanding both the article and vto’s point. If you can’t be bothered engaging in debate here with even some level of integrity, why don’t you just fuck off.

            • greywarshark 4.1.1.1.1.2

              DFTT

          • Mark 4.1.1.1.2

            Nigel Hampton is one of the few people I have any respect for any more in the corrupt world in which we live. He has never been afraid to speak out when it is necessary regardless of the wishes of the authorities. Nigel has that one quality that is so sadly lacking today – Integrity – and he has it in spades.

      • Skinny 4.1.2

        Little is quoted as “discussing Human Rights issues pertaining to Tibet”. Hope he raises the alleged barbaric treatment of Falun Gong practitioners.

    • millsy 4.2

      He is playing a straight bat on a green pitch. If he starts wildly swinging he could lose his wicket and join the rest of his party’s top order in the pavilion.

      Though he was served up with a full toss regarding the forecout attendants having thier wages docked and hotel workers getting told they cannot have breaks. He would have swotted that to the boundary and got some runs on the boarf. Though, the first true test will be Question Time.

      • Ad 4.2.1

        Any decent well written positioning speech about NZs place is Asia would do.

        No major policy.

        Just look and sound like you can rub two policy sticks together.

        Already, too much waiting. Redux.

  4. vto 5

    In the immediate (like few hours and days) aftermath of the Chch Feb earthquake many including myself felt that the search and rescue operation was woefully inadequate in many ways and that many people had probably died due to this woefulness.

    This issue has arisen every now and then during investigations, in particular around the CTV building collapse, but never taken anywhere seriously.

    One of NZ’s leading QCs Nigel Hampton has come out on this (again) and slammed this government for not holding organisations and people in those organisation to account for their ineptitude. Ineptitude which led to death.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/63372132/No-accountability-for-CTV-rescue-failures

    Hamptons last line is particularly damming, and, given the generally diplomatic language of QCs, the equivalent of a smack to the chops for this government … check it…

    “One is forced to the conclusion that, in New Zealand, the ability to determine responsibility and accountability in any search and rescue response is directly related to the political will and motivation at cabinet and government level,” Hampton said.

    CTV building collapse killing 108 people.
    Pike River killing 29 people.
    Cave Creek killing 11 people.

    There is a pattern here whereby John Key, Bill English and their pack of goons protect their government from proper justice.

    I’m gonna say it – I told you so.

    This government is unscrupulous in the extreme.

    Do not trust government, especially when the tory pricks are in control. The evidence is in.

    • framu 5.1

      “I’m gonna say it – I told you so.”

      im gonna get an “we told you so” t-shirt. Im having to say it too damn regularly these days

    • Molly 5.2

      The CTV casualties is a strange one.

      Like many others, I was glued to the television reports coming from Christchurch. I have a vivid memory of a media conference being interrupted by someone bringing the news to the speaker (on camera) that a void with up to fifteen surviving people had been discovered.

      Later that information was casually dismissed as a mistake.

      After that I couldn’t find any reference or mention of this in printed or broadcast media, and tragically there were no more survivors recovered after that time.

      Two things stood out for me:
      1. The specific nature of the information
      2. The decision to interrupt a live press conference to relate it.

      Was this later found to be some kind of macabre hoax – and one that was not confirmed before being relayed to officials?

      • vto 5.2.1

        Yep, there were many such similar things going on.

        We should not think that because we are apparently a first world country we have first world competencies in everything – because we clearly do not, as Pike River, CTV collapse, Cave Creek have shown.

        Imo, expressed at the time, there was an over-zealousness in health and safety. An over-zealousness that prevented further rescues.

        Get this: No survivors were found at all after approx. 24 hours after the main quake. Compare that to most all other earthquakes where people are found up to days later.

        We failed in the rescue. Badly.

        (note, as posted to BM above, this is not about the people on the ground who risked their lives in extreme conditions to try and rescue people, this is about the organisations like civil defence, USAR, fire, police who had woeful preparation. Unfortunately knee-jerk reactors like BM miss this, and so does most of the public. Because these on-site rescuers did their very best, the public think that was enough and good enough, yet it clearly was not. The organisations failed.)

        We failed in the rescue.

        New Zealand is called the Shaky Isles, yet we did not have an adequate pre-prepared rescue plan for a major quake in a major NZ city. What the fuck is that about?

        EQC exactly the same.

        Government gross failure leading to unnecessary death.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.3

      Management in NZ is woeful and that applies whether it’s government or private. The important point though is that government departments can be better but the elected officials are too busy cutting costs so as to cut taxes to allow it to be better.

  5. ianmac 6

    Brian Edwards posted this remarkable clip. To be there would have been amazing!
    “An amazing chance encounter with a troop of wild mountain gorillas near Bwindi National Park, Uganda.”
    http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2014/11/man-meets-gorillas-up-close-and-personal/

    • Anne 6.1

      Isn’t it enchanting. Thanks ianmac will watch it again. To see something like that is such a rarity.

    • Clemgeopin 6.2

      Very fascinating!
      Seems like these gorillas are somewhat familiar with humans going by their quite casual interaction.

  6. idlegus 7

    “Or is it just that (John Key) can’t remember which side he was on during the Land Wars?” Tobey Manhire, a good article about the “happy-go-lucky, cheeky-chappy, fun-loving, Tiggerish, jiggery-pokery-japing, touchy-feely, nudgy-winky easy-going entertainer” Roger Sutton.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11361915

    “Whoever the complainant or complainants are they have caused a great deal of harm over what I strongly suspect for many would be dismissed as misguided behaviour if not the silly musings, meanderings or mistakes of a bloke who in reality meant no real harm.” – Mike Hosking, lol!

  7. Morrissey 8

    A ‘Child’ Is Missing
    Missing from a New York Times headline

    by JIM NAURECKAS
    November 19, 2014 “ICH” – “Fair” –

    “Palestinian Shot by Israeli Troops at Gaza Border.” Think for a second about what kind of image that calls up. How much does that image change when you read the story’s second sentence?

    A spokeswoman for the hospital said the Palestinian was a 10-year-old boy.

    Now, very few people read the full text of every story in any newspaper, so as an editor you have to ask yourself what a headline conveys on its own. I expect that most people who only read that headline assumed that the Palestinian referenced was an adult–and likely had a different reaction to the story as a result.

    They were probably also less likely to read the story–the opposite of the effect that you usually want to have with a headline–which makes you wonder why the Times would leave this key fact out. Space, maybe? But “Gazan Boy Shot by Israeli Troops at Border” would have fit just as easily.

    Or “Child Shot by Israeli Troops at Gaza Border,” for that matter, since the shooting victim’s likely nationality would be clear from context; there aren’t too many Israeli children near the border with Gaza. In any case, the victim’s age is arguably a more important fact than his ethnicity.

    So did the editors leave out of the headline the fact that it was a child who had been shot because they didn’t want readers to get too upset about Israel doing the shooting?

    Surely they would say no––but recall that New York Times story (7/16/14; FAIR Blog, 7/17/14), accurately headlined “Four Young Boys Killed Playing on Gaza Beach,” that was rewritten for the print edition as “Boys Drawn to Gaza Beach, and Into Center of Mideast Strife.” Here the boys remained boys, but their deaths disappeared.

    When Times public editor Margaret Sullivan (7/22/14) asked why the headline had been changed, executive editor Dean Baquet claimed that print headlines tend to be “a little poetic.” Keats it ain’t.

    To take a quantitative look at this phenomenon, let’s move from the New York Times to an outlet that fancies itself to be the New York Times of the airwaves—–National Public Radio. FAIR’s Seth Ackerman (Extra!, 11/01) did a study of which deaths it reported in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict over a six-month period. He found that NPR reported 81 percent of the Israeli deaths during that time, and 89 percent of the deaths of Israeli children–but only 34 percent of the Palestinian deaths, and 26 percent of the deaths of Palestinian children.

    So while NPR––understandably––thought that being a child made an Israeli victim’s death more newsworthy, if Palestinian victims were children that made NPR less likely to report their deaths.

    That’s an odd sort of news judgment–unless what’s being aimed at is not maximizing human interest, but keeping it to a minimum.

    About Jim Naureckas
    Extra! Magazine Editor Since 1990, Jim Naureckas has been the editor of Extra!, FAIR’s monthly journal of media criticism. He is the co-author of The Way Things Aren’t: Rush Limbaugh’s Reign of Error, and co-editor of The FAIR Reader: An Extra! Review of Press and Politics in the ’90s. He is also the co-manager of FAIR’s website. http://fair.org/

    • ianmac 8.1

      Since you mention the Palestinian Question Morrissey, Jane Young has a powerfully ironic piece on Pundit:
      “The Dangers of Ignoring Context
      by Jane Young

      The rising violence between Israelis and Palestinians is extremely worrying, but it is not all one way, and its context cannot new conveniently ignored.

      Here’s a 22 point plan for peace in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

      Entrench Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian lands…..”
      http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/the-dangers-of-ignoring-context

    • ianmac 11.1

      Growth is everything adam. Step aside you socialist critics, and let your hair grow really fast. Growth. Growth. Growth.

  8. greywarshark 12

    Heard on the Radionz news that Obama is going to include 5 million mostly children, who are at present illegals in the USA. They have I think been born in the USA to illegals, their parents have worked paid tax, been part of the national life, but their children can’t get into college because of not being usa citizens. The Republicans don’t want to pass it or something, why do anything positive to build the nation and solve problems, so Obama is going to do it by decree?

    The ‘illegals’ are actually entitled to take part in the nation, work, pay tax, get a car licence and so on. They sound better regarded than kiwis in Oz. Oz our friend, our close compatriot, that comes down on us like a Terry Gilliam foot when they can work up a good-sounding whinge about us.

    • fuck australia/the australians..!

      ..the way they treat the aborigines tells you all you need to know about that deeply racist country/peoples..

      ..the way they treat us nz’ers is just a subset of that..

      ..and i just know that in those years i traveled..i wd run like the wind..away from an australian accent..

      ..they are like bleached-out low-rent americans..

      • minarch 12.1.1

        (Hey Phillip good to have you back !)

        Australia — Majority Irish immigrants during “founding” period
        New Zealand — Majority Scottish immigrants during same

        This IMO goes a LOOOONNNGGG way towards explaing the difference between Aussie and Kiwi cultures !

      • adam 12.1.2

        I think what the Aussies are really afraid of the kiwis over there , as we get on with the aboriginals, I hate that term. As my mates were Noongar and Koori, not aboriginals. Aboriginal is a generic term for native, and has continued to be used in Australia to help keep the dominant white population happy.

        If you think I’m being precious – look at the language and language groupings for indigenous Australians.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indigenous_Australian_group_names

        The equivalent in Europe would have meant multiple nations. But we get the simplest analysts to keep white fellows happy.

        • phillip ure 12.1.2.2

          my searing experience of what life is like in aust from some decades ago..when i lived on a beach called rolling stone..(no shit..!..)..

          ..with a bunch of other people..

          .and we met/became friends with an aboriginal guy who was doing walkabout in a ute..living in/sleeping in..

          ..and he told us how there were many country towns where abroginals were not allowed to go..

          ..if they did..the local cops wd pick them up..take them to the outskirts of town..and beat the shit out of them..

          ..and wd tell them to tell all the other ‘black-fellas’ not to come near wherever..

          ..and i have found that with australians..even highly educated/’civilised’ ones..

          ..if you scratch that itch..

          ..you hear the same stories you wd hear from the most upfront low-rent racist-scumbags..

          ..just couched in slightly better terms..

    • Murray Rawshark 12.2

      Australia gave me successful cancer treatment, a liver transplant, and a well paid job which will enable me to end up with a reasonable lump sum when I retire. I think I’ve been treated better than I would have been at home in the last 30 years. In Aotearoa I managed a PhD, a $40k student loan, which despite paying about $20k, is now $70k, no prospect of a job using my qualifications, and friends with possible recurrences of cancer who can’t get CT scans.

      I doubt if second generation irregulars in the US and A get any of that. They’re more likely to get pink underwear and 40 degree heat courtesy of Sheriff Joe.

  9. Clemgeopin 13

    I watched Andrew Little’s 20 minute press conference for the first time this morning. I liked what he had to say on many matters, including key (at 5:00′), TPPA etc.

    If you have not already seen it, here it is, for you to get the first impression of him and his bubbly personality.

    • Skinny 13.1

      Listening to Little on Jackon’s Radio Show right now. Geez what a breath of fresh air hearing a Labour leader talking frankly with his opinion on many topics. By the sounds of some of the callers he is hitting the mark. I’m relieved he won and happy to say he got my first choice vote. Sounds like Ardern is getting the nod as his deputy. I would assume Cunliffe will get finance?

      • alwyn 13.1.1

        You were doing so well and I was starting to think the Labour Party might get back to normality until you wrote the last two sentences!
        Arden for deputy? God help us.
        Cunliffe for Finance?? Double-God help us.

        • Skinny 13.1.1.1

          It’s a bit of a con job if she does, I guess the deadwood get their say. Parker packed a sad or a save face when Little rejects him. The LP is in a bitter fight between factions. Little is the axe man and they know it!

      • Clemgeopin 13.1.2

        Sounds like Ardern is getting the nod as his deputy

        What makes you say that? Substance, link or just rumour?

        • Chooky 13.1.2.1

          If Ardern gets Deputy over Mahuta (with all her loyalty and experience and pull with Maoridom and women…and the unemployed and beneficiaries) …it will be a huge mistake! (..and I will resign my $5 membership…ha ha)

          • Clemgeopin 13.1.2.1.1

            It is up to Little to decide after talking to his caucus members as to what is best under the circumstances for the party and for the winning prospects in 2017. I am sure he will consider all aspects before he makes his front bench decisions. I will fully support any decisions he makes in that regard.

            • Chooky 13.1.2.1.1.1

              @Clem….well this is good for you …but I am afraid i can see compromises and mistakes repeated here…and unlike you loyalty is not my strong suit…I am quite capable of jumping ship

              …in fact my heart is with the Greens and I voted Green and Mana/Int last time….however all I want is the best for the Labour Party and for the Left in coalition to win the next Election( this includes NZF)

              …Andrew Little as Labour leader is a good start ( just as David Cunliffe was a good start)

              ….the NZ Labour Party needs a very strong change of direction for all to see

      • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 13.1.3

        Andrew Little with Mau

        http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Audio.aspx

        Nov 21, 2014 14.00
        (Interview started from 08:30 onwards)

        The deputy question was raised from 14.15

      • karol 13.1.4

        Sounds like Ardern is getting the nod as his deputy. I would assume Cunliffe will get finance?

        This wouldn’t surprise me. It seems logical to me that if Little is aiming to unite caucus, he’ll choose one of team Robertson for deputy. And, if he does that, if gives him some leeway to give finance to Cunliffe = balance between factions.

        Although, Little did seem to be likely to try to talk Parker into taking finance.

        • phillip ure 13.1.4.1

          i am not too sure little will be chasing parker to still control finance..

          ..’cos they were diametrically opposed on raising the pension-age..

          ..and the c.g.t..

          ..and parker is the reason there was absolutely nothing offered to the poorest by labour 2014..

          ..add to that he is notoriously hard to work with..as in trenchant in his support of his ideas..

          ..and it’s his way or the highway..

          ..and given that little has been having universal basic income musings..

          ..and that such an idea would have neo-lib parker on the couch..having palpitations..

          ..i wd be surprised if parker kept control of the purse-strings..

          • Skinny 13.1.4.1.1

            Well read Phil, Little belittled Parker during the hustings over the retirement age policy & to a certain extent the CGT. You could feel the animosity between the 2.

            Cunliffe has a life line, and don’t forget Little talked too all the caucus apart from 2, Robertson & Parker one can naturally assume. Robertson is now fucked and he knows it. His ego, and being spurred on by the deadwood inspired him to roll the dice and basically say DC was gone once he won the leadership contest. The dejected look by him was the realisation that his political career is over, there is no coming back. Us activists won’t tolerate the divisions no more. With 3 years to play with we can form a political with proper structure.

            • Anne 13.1.4.1.1.1

              I agree Skinny. phillip ure has done a very good reading and your contribution is interesting too.

              And hey Phil, your slightly changed writing style is easy on the eye and easy to read.

              • tho’ i don’t think parker should be sidelined..

                ..he should be given a serious role..

                ..let’s not forget his demolishing of english in their debate was one of the few highlights of that campaign..

                ..parker really pulled one out of the bag with that one..

                ..so he has skills..just keep him away from the purse-strings..

                ..i know what wd be a brilliant role for him..

                ..he should head a ministerial task-force to hunt down the corporate etc ‘big-gun’-tax-avoiders…

                ..that wd be a perfect outlet for his calvinist-anger..

                ..and he wd approach/execute the task with zeal…

                ..i can’t think of anyone better for that important job..

                • and if he were made opposition spokesperson for revenue..

                  ..he could deal to dunne for the next three yrs..

                  ..i am sure that apart from dunne..

                  ..everyone wd thoroughly enjoy that…

                  ..dunne is so funny when his mask slips..

                  ..and he gets all purse-lipped and tetchy..

        • Anne 13.1.4.2

          I noted David Shearer accompanied Andrew Little to meet Chinese president, Xi Jinping today – TV3 news.

          A high bench position with responsibilities for Foreign affairs and Trade?

          • Skinny 13.1.4.2.1

            The Chinese Premier would be quite familiar with Goff who under Clark’s government brokered the trade deal, who can tell by the photo in the NZH. It gives me a laugh that China acknowledge and credit the New Zealand Labour Party for the closer relationship.

            Meanwhile Key and the National party suck up to the Americans with the TPPA.

            • Anne 13.1.4.2.1.1

              Yes, it gave me a smile too. Key wasn’t going to give public credit to Clark and Goff so Jinping did it for them. 🙂

              In fact it was former Labour politicians of yesteryear ( a few decades ago) who put NZ on such a good footing with China in the first place, and was the reason we started getting preferential treatment.

              • Skinny

                I love it Little had a crack over human rights in Tibet. This would give many Kiwi’s a back straightening insight that Little is not one to pander to the new super power by skirting the hard questions.

                The tide is on the turn and the Left is finally on the up 🙂

  10. greywarshark 14

    Here is how grotesque you might look like at 88 if you had tons of money and a new face makeover every few years. People are spending a lot of time trying to find ways that we can live to an ever-older age. How could we bear it? Disillusion with oneself and humankind could send one into apathy or madness?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11362163

    Does anyone remember seeing Cold Lazarus by Denis Potter presented on TV. It went into this sort of thing. A rich elderly woman regularly dosed herself with a wonder drug of short-term duration so she could enjoy pleasures of the flesh with her gigolo for a short period.

    An inhuman media company owned the rights to the memories coming through electrical impulses from the head of a near dead man, sort of living on in a life-support solution. His memories of his past were broadcast on TV and people watched fascinated at this mixture of The Truman Show and Coronation Street. What did he do next? Gosh that was awful, despicable, kind, amazing.

    He was aware in his mind that his memories were being tapped and it disturbed him greatly. In the end he communicated his thoughts to one of the technicians and asked for release, he knocked over the tank, which broke, the solution drained away and he at last could die.

  11. Michael 15

    I just wanted to throw this out there. This is why I’m opposed to work requirements of any kind for sole parents.

    Think of domestic work and child caring. Nannies and cleaners are paid for doing this work in the private market. However, when a single parent receives an income support benefit while she cares for her children, society vilifies and stigmatises her, saying that she should be working 40-50 hours per week in a paid job. If she went over to her neighbour’s house, and they hired her as a nanny or cleaner for pay, society would be very happy, and would applaud her for working full time. They’d say she is ‘taking a hold of her life’ or something.
    However, if she’s looking after her own children and being a parent, on a benefit, society calls her a lazy good-for-nothing scrounger. It’s the exact same thing, except one is paid employment at her neighbour’s house, and one is at her house caring for her children.

    We need to realise that work and contributing to society & paid employment are two different things. This is going to become even more apparent as society and the labor market changes in coming years.

  12. Draco T Bastard 16

    US brands Kim Dotcom ‘fugitive of justice’ for refusing to extradite himself

    Now in response, US attorneys wrote in a motion filed on Monday this week that the defendants’ attempt to rebuff that forfeit request is moot as a result of their collective refusal to come to America — and ergo, according to the prosecutors, “disentitle[s] claimants from challenging a pending civil forfeiture action.”

    Translation: We’re going to take everything off you because you not here to stop us.

    • McFlock 16.1

      land of the free /sarc

    • Chooky 16.2

      DTB +100…thanks for that…it is like the Roman Empire trying flex it’ s Corporate sovereignty over remote far flung nations and ‘subjects’ who won’t recognise they are subjects and subject to USA corporate monopoly control….USA land of Free Enterprise NOT…

  13. aerobubble 17

    Sovereignty, is where an entity has the ability to control a region. So what’s this about the Tribunal declaring that Maori had it over the whole of NZ, they were not one entity. They were a bunch of warring tribes, where some of them, not all, went and signed a treaty. Why? Because those tribes knew what was going to happen, they had sent emissaries to the UK, they brought guns, they even had Maori working on whalers who would have seen the ports of the world. They knew the huge population waiting to move to NZ, that standing in the way of an expansionist Empire was folly. The rule of law, the treaty established a nation under the protection of the British Empire, and so began the beginnings of the Sovereign state we now call New Zealand. The NZ wars were after all the new found state enforcing its will. So what was the Tribunal talking about. Two rules of law?

    • Murray Rawshark 17.1

      The tribunal was making its best estimate of what the chiefs who signed the treaty in the Bay of Islands and the Hokianga in 1840 thought they were signing. Seeing as they had already made the 1835 Declaration of the United Tribes, I suspect they had some idea about tino rangatiratanga. The tribunal could have saved all that time and money and just asked you. Or maybe radio talkback.

      • aerobubble 17.1.1

        Technology rolled off ships. Metal impliments, guns. Medicine. Bibles. Are you telling us that chiefs who have traded, who liked the end of inter-tribal warfare, slavery, who were embracing European religion and values. Were not smart enough to recognize that for them to grow and prosper, they needed to join with and become part of the new order, that without single power (like their ancesters who came NZ had on pacific islands) there would be no peace, no one law for all.
        The big tribe of Pakaha, more warriers, better armed, better trained, better educated, better experience of the new reality of a smaller world, the most powerful, not those damn French or Spanish eyeing them up also.
        Are you saying that they had nothing to gain, so didn’t give anything up?

  14. Colonial Rawshark 18

    Some people are still willing to believe that global economic growth is just around the corner for major economies. Really? Consider the following:

    US manufacturing PMI (purchasing managers index) misses target by most on record, now at 10 month lows. US GDP growth likely to be revised down to 2.5% (basically zero, once you take into account the rate of real inflation…):

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-20/us-manufacturing-pmi-misses-most-record-lowest-january

    China manufacturing PMI misses expectations for the 13th month in a row, now at 6 month lows:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-19/china-manufacturing-pmi-misses-slides-6-month-lows

    Yeah the global (real) economy is just gearing to take off, isn’t it…

    Having said that I am sure the bankers and financiers can re-inflate a few more asset price bubbles to give a few people the illusion of “growth.”

    • Chooky 18.1

      +100 CR…yes I would have thought a big crash is just around the corner with the banksters still playing funny money games unrelated to reality …but solipsistic focused on their own short term trade advantages/profits

  15. Tracey 19

    “…The Environmental Defence Society and environmental group Sustain Our Sounds have won a costs argument against New Zealand King Salmon in the Supreme Court.

    The court has awarded costs of $34,900 to the society, with $23,650 to be paid by NZ King Salmon and $5625 each from the Conservation Minister and the director general of Primary Industries.

    NZ King Salmon must also pay the society disbursements of $4764.

    At the same time, the court declined NZ King Salmon’s application for costs against Sustain Our Sounds, ruling that the costs should “lie where they fall”.

    The costs applications follow 2013 appeals taken by the society and the Sounds group against the approval NZ King Salmon gained to expand its marine farming in the Marlborough Sounds.

    The society succeeded in its part of the appeal, getting approval for one of four new farms removed, while Sustain Our Sounds failed.

    The two Crown respondents agreed to share the society’s costs of $11,250 and the court was asked to order that these be equally shared.

    NZ King Salmon had submitted that costs should remain with the parties on both appeals, but that if the court awarded costs to the society, it sought costs from Sustain Our Sounds.

    However, the court said that submissions from Sustain Our Sounds were “of assistance to the court” in the society’s appeal, and that its submissions also raised issues of major resource management significance. …” stuff.co.nz

    • Murray Rawshark 19.1

      No doubt we’ll soon see a law change under urgency. Can’t have the courts interfering with business.

  16. greywarshark 20

    Good news for The Thin Ice project. Made their fundraising target! Success!
    WE’VE DONE IT! 120% + your support has left us speechless (well, nearly)

  17. Draco T Bastard 21

    If anybody missed it over on the right:

    National’s new teabreak law isn’t even in force and employers are already abusing it:

    Employers so keen to abuse people that they’re already abusing National’s law change that allows them to – and it hasn’t even come into effect yet.

    • Treetop 21.1

      Next the employer will be charging for the tea and coffee.

    • Clemgeopin 21.2

      Employers so keen to abuse people that they’re already abusing National’s law change that allows them to – and it hasn’t even come into effect yet

      Nasty and greedy callous capitalist crooks. They deserve to be arrested, heavily fined and jailed.

  18. watching norton..

    ..who is more boring..?

    ..hathaway or mcconaghy..?

    ..as exciting/interesting as foot-mould..

    ..both of them..

  19. Treetop 23

    The international space station is having an expresso coffee machine delivered. I wonder if they have to ask NASA if they can have a coffee break.

  20. joe90 24

    Life’s a picnic in the new Crimea.
    //

    Editor’s note: Among the roughly 2 million people living in Crimea when Russia annexed it earlier this year were several hundred intravenous drug users. Under Ukraine’s rule, they had been getting substitution therapy—typically, methadone or buprenorphine in place of opiates such as heroin—which is a widely accepted way of treating addiction in much of the world. But it’s illegal in Russia, where even needle-exchange programs to prevent the spread of disease are viewed with suspicion. As a result, drug users in Russia are at very high risk for HIV, hepatitis and tuberculosis (TB), and get dumped in hospital TB wards in appalling conditions.

    http://qz.com/294050/photos-the-people-who-thought-their-lives-couldnt-get-any-worse-until-russia-invaded/

  21. Beatie 25

    Re workers wages being docked for stolen petrol. I wonder about Winz role in enabling this sort of employer abuse. If you are sent to a job thru Winz and are presented with a dodgy, or no, contract and you refuse the job, you are likely to be stood down for ‘refusing a reasonable offer of work’. If you leave the job because of this sort of illegal behaviour from the employer, Winz is likely to stand you down for months for ‘leaving employment’. Winz don’t seem to care about toxic workplaces, and will keep sending people there. The employee can apply for mediation (but how would they know this?) and should be able to avoid a stand down, but even then Winz may ignore it . Employers know that the employee is between a rock and a hard place and have no incentive to change these practices.

  22. NZSage 26

    Just watched Andrew Little on The Nation and the big issue for me was, do those asshat interviewers know when to shut the f##% up?

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  • Super Māori turnout for Super Saturday
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    18 hours ago
  • New Zealand Ambassador to France announced
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  • Next steps in action plan for indigenous rights kicks off
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  • Speech on the launch of the consultation on the development of the Emissions Reduction Plan
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  • Convention on Biological Diversity COP 15, Virtual High-Level Segment
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  • ​​​​​​​Health system is ready for assisted-dying law
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  • Lower card fees good for businesses, consumers
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  • Mandatory vaccination for two workforces
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  • Fund allows more Pacific community led vaccinations
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  • Small business at heart of economic recovery across APEC region
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  • Record day for Māori vaccinations
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  • Speech : Pacific Public Sector Fono – Friday 8th October 2021
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    1 week ago
  • Ruapehu social housing pilot, providing value for generations to come
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  • New Children’s Commissioner Appointed
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  • More support for business available from today
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  • Compelling case made for modernising local government
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  • Judge and Associate Judge of High Court appointed
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    2 weeks ago